The Catholic church admit that it brought about sunday worship not God, therefore you are worshipping this church when you worship on sunday, not God.
Pope Gregory I
"It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these [men] but preachers of Antichrist, who when he comes will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord’s day to be kept free from all work. For because he [the Antichrist] pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord’s day to be held in reverence; and because he compels the people to Judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed. For this which is said by the prophet, ‘You shall bring in no burden through your gates on the Sabbath day’ [Jer. 17:24] could be held to as long as it was lawful for the law to be observed according to the letter. But after that the grace of almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, has appeared, the commandments of the law which were spoken figuratively cannot be kept according to the letter. For if anyone says that this about the Sabbath is to be kept, he must needs say that carnal sacrifices are to be offered. He must say too that the commandment about the circumcision of the body is still to be retained. But let him hear the apostle Paul saying in opposition to him: ‘If you be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing’ [Gal. 5:2]" (Letters 13:1 [A.D. 597]).
"The [Catholic] church took the pagan buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, [the Roman] temple to all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs: so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sun day . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom. Balder the beautiful, the White God, the old Scandinavians called him. The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . There is, in truth, something royal, kingly about the sun, making it a fit emblem of Jesus, the Sun of Justice. Hence the church would seem to have said, 'Keep that old, pagan name. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus. The sun is a fitting emblem of Jesus. The Fathers often compared Jesus to the sun; as they compared Mary to the moon."--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809. [Dr. Gildea (1856-19 14) was rector of St. James Catholic Church in London].
OFFICIALLY CHANGED TO SUNDAY
Emperor Constantine the Great in the early fourth century, followed by later "Christian emperors." Not only did Constantine give Christianity a new status within the Roman Empire (from being persecuted to being honored), but he also gave Sunday a "new look." By his civil legislation, he made Sunday a rest day. His famous Sunday law of March 7, 321, reads: "On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost."
This was the first in a series of steps taken by Constantine and by later "Christian emperors" in regulating Sunday observance. It is obvious that this first Sunday law was not particularly Christian in orientation (note the pagan designation "venerable Day of the Sun"); but very likely Constantine, on political and social grounds, endeavored to merge together heathen and Christian elements of his constituency by focusing on a common practice. In A.D. 386, Theodosius I and Gratian Valentinian extended Sunday restrictions so that litigation should entirely cease on that day and there would be no public or private payment of debt. Laws forbidding circus, theater, and horse racing also followed and were reiterated as felt necessary.
"In the year 321 the Emperor Constantine, who was not yet a declared Christian, but was still hovering between paganism and Christianity, issued a decree making Sunday a compulsory day of rest: but the fact that he speaks of Sunday as 'the venerable day of the Sun' [the pagan sun-worship title for the day] shows that he was thinking of it as a traditional sun-festival at the same time that he thought of it as a Christian holy-day . . . Sunday came to be observed throughout Europe as it is still observed by Roman Catholics, namely, as a day on which, like our Christmas, people went to church in the morning and then gave themselves over to rest or to holiday-making and sports."--Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity, 1928, pp. 236-237. [A. D. Weigall (1880-1934) was a British historian, Egyptologist and inspector-general of antiquities for the Egyptian Government].
"At this time in early church history it was necessary for the church to either adopt the Gentiles' day or else have the Gentiles change their day. To change the Gentiles' day would have been an offense and a stumbling block to them. The church could naturally reach them better by keeping their day."--William Frederick, Three Prophetic Days, pp. 169-170.
Sylvester I (314-337 A.D.) was the pope during the reign of Constantine. Here is what he thought of the Bible Sabbath: "If every Sunday is to be observed joyfully by the Christians on account of the resurrection, then every Sabbath on account of the burial is to be execration [loathing or cursing] of the Jews."--quoted by S. R. E. Humbert, Adversus Graecorum calumnias 6, in Patrologie Cursus Completus, Series Latina, ed. J.P. Migne, 1844, p. 143.
Hear what the first real Protestant (Reformer), ex-Catholic Monk, Martin Luther Says in his commentary on Exodus 16:4, 22-30, regarding the Sabbath:
"Hence you can see that the Sabbath was before the Law of Moses Came, and has existed from the beginning of the world". Especially have the devout, who have preserved the true faith, met together and called upon God on this day."
As to the cause of the conversion of Constantine from heathen superstitions to the Christian faith, Philostorgius, in conformity with all other writers, ascribes it to his victory over Maxentius, in a battle in which the sign of the cross was seen in tile East, vast in extent and lit up with glorious light, and surrounded on each side by stars like a rainbow, symbolizing tile form of letters. The letters too were in the Latin tongue and formed these words, “In hoc signo vinces.”
Council of Nicea I (325 AD):
When Constantine defeated Emperor Licinius in 323 AD he ended the persecutions against the Christian church. Shortly afterwards Christians faced a trouble from within: the Arian controversy began and threatened to divide the church. The problem began in Alexandria, it started as a debate between the bishop Alexander and the presbyter (pastor, or priest) Arius. Arius proposed that if the Father begat the Son, the latter must have had a beginning, that there was a time when he was not, and that his substance was from nothing like the rest of creation. The Council of Nicea, a gathering similar to the one described in Acts 15:4-22, condemned the beliefs of Arius and wrote the first version of the now famous creed proclaiming that the Son was "one in being with the Father" by use of the Greek word "homoousius."
The Nicene Creed introduced the word "homoousious" or "consubstantial" meaning "of one substance." This word was not invented at the Council. Eusebius writes that some of the "most learned and distinguished of the ancient bishops had made use of consubstantial in treating of the divinity of the Father and the Son".
Of interest about the excommunicated Arius. A few years after the Council of Nicea, Arius discovered a new way to interpret the word "homoousius" that agreed with his doctrines. He then asked to be readmitted to communion, but the Church refused. Arius then appealed to the Emperor. Emperor Constantine's favorite sister, Constantia, on her deathbed, implored Constantine to support Arius and he did so. A date was set for the forcing of the Church to readmit Arius, but while he was waiting for Constantine to arrive Arius stopped to relieve himself and his bowels burst and he died. (See Arians of the 4th Century, Chapter III, Section II by John Henry Newman)
Does the day really matter? The Bible tells us to worship God in Spirit and Truth....shouldn't that be done everyday?
I thought he said spirit and root, so I bought a crate of 12 year old scotch, got pissed and went looking for a root!
Am I in trouble now?
oh, no comment, can't read more than 4 lines which is a huge miracle, Sundays I use to snort 4
sorry gotta nap oh shoot it's friday, who brought about Friday, for sure earnest, rock on buddy best day of the week - so take that sunday claimers!
God says to keep Holy the "SABBATH". God declared the "SEVENTH DAY" as a day of rest, to worship Him.
God does not categorically state what day is The "SABBATH" or what day is the "SEVENTH DAY", therefore if you choose to follow any organized religion Catholic or Otherwise, whatever day they have chosen to be the "SABBATH" is the day you will follow.
Sunday could be the SIXTH DAY which would make Monday the "SABBATH" The Jewish religion of today believes Friday to be the "SIXTH DAY" and the "SABBATH" to be Saturday according to their calendar, but Catholics are not Jewish, Christians are not Jewish.
If you don't like Sunday as your sabbath, pick one and manke it yours.
haj why not write a hub here this is a bit excessive for a forum isn't it. At least a hub will be there forever , this not so much.
since churches have service in the middle of the week, they should stop that to, according to some of these hubbers
I don't know if that is true.
From what I read....
Whatever I can't read all that
you live in the roman world. the days months holidays the bible also roman ---upon this rock i will build my church--and peter rest where?
How come it's taken you 2,000 odd years and the thesis above to work out the Christians stole the Pagan's most holy day of days ?
SUN day... A day set aside to worship the SUN... DUH !! Oh Yeah, it was already a day off
It's not rocket science, and I think you're going to have a fit when you finally get round to realising Christmas and Easter were stolen as well and have absolutely Stuff All to do with Christianity either.
Yep Sun day was taken from the Pagan's. Solar logos = the physical Sun. Sunday, the day of worshiping the Sun. No intelligence needed here. No need to extract long drawn out paragraphs that bore people.
Merlin, I don't know why they have such difficulty with the origins of Christmas and Easter either? It all has to do with astronomy, seasons. Stuff all to do with modern day Christianity.
Or even Old day Christianity for that matter.
Everything I've actually read about JC kinda puts him in the realms of Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy.
I mean we know he wasn't born at Christmas and we know he didn't resurrect at Easter. Even his name is suspect... The Christ is a title not a name...that and the fact that there were at least three other people wandering around at the same time proclaiming themselves the Messiah....
All sounds a bit Iffy to me... but there again it always did !
It always will remain iffy Merlin. The solar logos, for instance, is a principle. Christ Consciousness is a state of mind. It's not a 'personal' anything. It's way way way beyond 'personal'. All anyone can do (including this Jesus dude) is attain a high state of consciousness. And that is never done on an external level. Hence the biggest con ever created was to have masses of people look OUTSIDE themselves and idolize an external false being - that being a personal god/God. Jesus unfortunately has become that external personal being. God, or a divine state is only found inside which is what, in original scriptures was intended to be taught by 'Jesus' or Buddah, or Ra, or any of the sages in each sect.
Unfortunately the ECs & FCs don't know they are working for the wrong side. That's the paradoxical conundrum they will face.
Well put ! I always like your posts but you have just shot up my list of personal favourites 1
Thank you for the compliment of thinking that my opinion matters
It certainly does, especially when there are compliments involved! Too few of those around these days.
And I just found this gem today. You might enjoy it, I certainly did.
Nah - that won't open here in China - I guess there is anti china stuff on the site somewhere. I can't get Youtube either, or Facebook
A strange aspect of life is that I have heard people saying something very very similar to your statement above and yet not really grasp what they have just said.
I get dizzy sometimes, because I do see some truth in the things that most everyone on here are saying.
I see your philosophy of life closer to the truth, as I understand it, than any one else on here.
And I agree with alternate poet, you are # 1 based on what I know.
When we maintain an EITHER-OR mentality, and not even examine both sides of an issue, we are depriving ourselves of any hopes of finding any kind of truth.
I respond less and less on the religious forums because the repetitive reading makes me dizzy too! I just listened to the Intelligence Debate that I posted for our China friend AP above by Stephen Fry not long after making the 2nd post above. And it was plain to see that he spoke from experience and a clearer understanding of spirituality that is so missing - especially on these forums! He said so much in a short 20 minutes that hit between the eyes. People were squirming in their seats, perhaps it's because there were clergy present. Many audience members were probably worried about the 'sacriligious' undertones in his speech. But so very true how he spoke about Jesus the teacher and how he would not tolerate the nonesense being spewed today. I must listen to the entire debate as a whole, but Stephen Fry made my Friday evening very memorable.
I have seen the entire series Jewel, and they are all first class.
Stephen Fry has a very nice mind if that makes sense to you...
His capacity to balance logical process with compassionate feeling shows much emotional maturity.
I watch the other shows he is in and feel he has an extraordinarily capacity to retain and deal with information.
It takes a little time to watch.
I look forward to going through the series Ernest. And yes, Fry has a balanced perspective and a very nice open mind.
Are his shows on any other online site - I can access most normal news and entertainment sites if not all ?
EITHER/OR If these threads ever get past trying to educate some of the smallest thinkers in the history of the world - and you are not one of those Jerami - then the progression from the exclusive aspects of either/or that come from over-emphasising or over-dependancy on logic to AND/ALSO would be an interesting conversation.
Thank you sir. I've had many pleasant conversations with you and many others on here.
Can't say that I have agreed "totally" with anyone, but I've learned at least a little bit from everyone, I think.
I think that I think so ?? I think ?
I'm getting too sleepy to think .. I think?
Good night all
It's 12:20 that is late for an old man that gets up at 6 AM every morning no matter what.
This is so long a post I didn't even bother reading it.
Jesus is Lord 24/7. The rest is academic.
It sounds to me that Most all Atheists and many Theists are saying that the Church that Constantine built has lead the true teachings of GOD astray.
Hmmm Wasn't something like that predicted to happen In Gods original message approx 330 or so years earlier?
So it seems illogical to Deny the existence of God based upon something that God said was going to happen ...
and did happen ??
Only if the truth is handled very indelicately Jerami.
Earnest .. It seems that all doubters seem to agree that the scriptures have been adulterated.
and many Theists, and some Christians also.
So after 2000 years of this "activity" it would become easy to find reason to doubt not knowing what part is still accurate and what has been tampered with.
Yes, you believe that it started out totaly fabricated.
But without knowing the origional story, you also stand on faith that; ... where there was smoke there was no fire.
Really, as far as I can tell, the important message in Christianity is basically this: "I know you're not perfect," says God, "So when you screw up, recognize it, and resolve to do better. That's really all I can expect of you people. Oh, and it'd be good if you'd try to treat each other nicely."
Everything else is just excess baggage. Worship on Saturday, or Sunday, or Wednesday, who cares? Worship by glossolalia or by burning incense or by making music or by building houses for the homeless, who cares? Eat pork, or eat beef, or eat only vegetables, who cares?
As long as you're trying to be a better person, and treating everyone else nicely, who cares? God? If He cares, the folks who are doing it wrong will find out soon enough. And you might be one of them. So might I. I'm not perfect. But I'm doing the best I can, and trying to do better.
Can see the Bosses loving that one... Not to mentiomn the clergy of all faiths for that matter.
They are so used to working a One day week and along you come and take the other six days off them....
Not the best thought out plan... if you ask me ...which you didn't of course.. but what the Hell!
who is the S.O.B. who came up with Monday morning??
GOD ! Who else ?
He only had one day off as it is writ:
At Fiveth on the morrow following the sabbath Mrs.God gave unto God a sharp prodeth in the butt and spake thus. "Yeah the day after tomorrow be Wednesday that be half a week gone and I needeth you to clear the garden of serpents and your other experiments for they stealeth our fruit."
my deepest apology but could the OP repeat himself, I couldn't hear, or I could read it NOT!
my friend hub it we'll love it
not start of thread, will no doubt soon be dead
so what kind of residuals does this church get for the invention of Sunday?
must be a holy bunch!
by Adrian McDonald4 years ago
This is not a discussion about discrediting the existence of God or discrediting the church as an institution of God. This serves to provide clarity on the issue of Sunday worship and it's legitimacy.
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by haj33966 years ago
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It is quite obvious that Catholics do not follow many things in the Bible. They look at the Church as the one that sets all standards. Why is it so?
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