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Wow...Just an observation

  1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
    schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago

    In one of the forums I noticed someone saying so and so might make their atheist groupie list

    It seems , these atheists on here, and I don't think we really need a name (Christians call themselves Christians and they are a group so I guess if atheists call themselves athesits they are a group) (a groupie group)

    so, what I noticed was how "proud " they are of being an atheist and that they have some sort of "group" mentality.

    So, this to me appears to be equal to a religion or cult perhaps

    Group=religion/or Cult???

    This Group professes pride in hating Christians or Christ
    In grouping themselves with each other
    Possibly avoiding all other religions
    Making fun or and spending tons of time doing this

    (instead of what I would call "normal" in just avoiding Christ or Christians)

    Just an observation. Interesting isn't? LOL hehe

    1. LeslieAdrienne profile image80
      LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Very good observation in my opinion.....All a Christian has to do is post anything about God and it's like throwing raw meat into a den of hungry lions..(hey, that's been done before-dejavu perhaps) wink

      1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Leslie,

        I want to appreciate and THANK YOU for this wonderful VALIDATION!!!
        (Before I get attacked!!!!!!! sad sad )

        peace all

        1. LeslieAdrienne profile image80
          LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          lol

          Your welcome... lol

      2. h.a.borcich profile image61
        h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Very accurate observation.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          At least we all agree it is the Christians making the first move. 2,000 years of doing this has caused 2,000 years of conflict.

          When will you learn?

          1. h.a.borcich profile image61
            h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Keep your words out of my mouth Mark. Perhaps you think it is clever, but it is so juvenile.


            People who always figure a way to blame you for how they rage at you are called abusers. You hide behind :
            if you didn't believe in sky fairies...
            if you didn't spread this crud...
            if you kept it private....
            if I didn't have to see it...
            if you didn't blah,blah,blah....

            There was a point where I really looked forward to participating in a discussion with you. Now, after all your insults and antics I realize you are not capable.

          2. 59
            exorterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Mark, when will we learn that we are not allowed to mention Christ, or Religion, you do not have to agree with us, but we are allowed to speak to each other about God, if you do not want to see that, then do not open anything about Religion

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Jerami's brother,

              When will you learn that this is a public forum that covers many subjects? And I have a valid opinion that I will continue to share every time one of you causes a fight by sticking your self-proclaimed righteousness in my face. If you do not want to hear a contrary opinion - why are you here? Some one did suggest a christians-only forum - yet here you are once again.

              Have you ever even read a history book? You seem ignorant of the many religious wars in the past. And the current one brewing. All caused by religionists like yourself "talking about god."

              I will continue to try and stop you spreading hatred and causing wars. It is my duty as a rational human being.

              1. 59
                exorterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I do not spread hatred, I think a lot of people that call themselves Christians, are not. the Word says to love everyone, there are bad people everywhere, some are calling themselves Christians

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  there are bad people everywhere, some are calling themselves Christians; giving Christians a bad name

                    and some are calling themselves Atheists. Giving Atheists a bad name

              2. theherbivorehippi profile image84
                theherbivorehippiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                smile

              3. hanging out profile image62
                hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                valid opinion lol

                Now marky mark.. this is what we mean by you are just nasty. nasty, nasty.
                How can you imagine that people have never read a history book? On what do you base your question/statement on? Inference, right!? i am correct. The problem with you mark is you infer so much. Your posts are made of inference upon inference upon inference. All you do is infer, in fact you infer to infer that your inference is a truth. lol. Nothing could be further from the truth.
                Lets look at this one bold inference...
                "You seem ignorant of the many religious wars in the past. And the current one brewing. All caused by religionists like yourself "talking about god."
                you infer we seem ignorant of many religious wars in the past. I know of some catholic troubles, although i don' t want to infer i know what you mean by the word 'war'. I can think of many many wars NOT caused by religion, WW1 and 2, 1812, vietnam war, gulf war and some others. You have never listed your wars that you claim to exist. Your next inference is "the one brewing"... is this a christian war, muslim war, or just a skirmish you want to call a war? Can you explain and please don't just say you would be wasting your time to explain because an answer like that should just get you banned forever from "debating" or "discussing" on hubpages. If you see a muslim war approaching then go bother the muslims and please don't put their agenda onto christians Again i don't want to infer that is what you are doing but you really don't say much you just insult and push your troubled thoughts onto us in the most vague way. Are we to be impressed by your high hubpages score alone lol

                "I will continue to try and stop you spreading hatred and causing wars".
                Again your inference has you totally causing war with christians. If we are attacked we might defend ourselves that would depend on how funny the puzzled look were on the attackers face as we chose not to defend ourselves but over paper this approach is lame, lol. 


                "It is my duty as a rational human being".
                So by creating war you deflect war and this you call rational. Dear me and oh my. It must be true; people become the thing they hate the most. You hate war and have evolved into a warmonger. Let me introduce you to irony.
                hahahahahahaha.

                Basically what is happening here, by inferenece which is fine with you,  is you are full of yourself and thinking yourself a god you have risen above the christians in your moral outrage at their peaceful doctrine discussions and through malignant pushy dictatorship will crush them under your huge foot which lives perpetually in your even bigger mouth. Yah that sounds rational.

                to quote earnest except for the capitals    wotalotofrot lol lol
                The door is over there mark, close it behind ya okay, your credence here is 100 times lower than your hubscore. (even in the evolution forums you are nasty nasty nasty, attitudes like that create wars yknow. smile

          3. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
            schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            <3 smile

    2. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Atheism is a "meme" of a religion or a "work in progress"; though I sometimes feel religion is deep rooted or embedded in their physyche though they are not conscious of it. Some of them could be termed as "zealots" of their "unfaith".

    3. Don W profile image84
      Don Wposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting observation. If you mean atheism as simply a lack of belief, or a belief that a deity does not exist, then atheism is not a religion by any standard. If you mean the attempt to disseminate an atheist world-view, then that's a different story.

      Some dictionary definitions of religion include something like: 'A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion'. That meaning can obviously be applied to anyone who pursues something with zeal etc, including atheists. So by that very narrow meaning, a group which zealously advocates atheism is religious. But is that a religion religion? One of the most common anthropological meanings of religion is from Clifford Geertz, an American anthropologist:

      "(1) a system of symbols
      (2) which acts to establish powerful, pervasive and long-lasting moods and motivations in men
      (3) by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and
      (4) clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality that
      (5) the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic."

      So we can summarise religion from an anthropological point of as: a system of symbols which establishes a world-view, and endeavours to promote that world-view as uniquely real. Do modern efforts to disseminate the atheist world-view fall into that category? Yes. Whether a world-view is based on a supernatural agent, or whether it is based on humanist principles makes no difference. The mechanism by which it is espoused is the same, i.e. through symbolism or more broadly speaking, culture of which symbolism is an important part.

      Leading proponents of the atheist world-view such as Richard Dawkins etc have actively used cultural means to disseminate atheism. Indeed Dawkins himself formulated the idea of the 'meme' as a unit of ideas transmitted to others through culture. Dawkins' books and anti-religion movement have garnered much cultural commentary. The use of culture in this way certainly represents a 'system of symbols' used to establish and promote a world-view, because culture is all about symbols.

      Moreover even where science cannot draw a conclusion, some atheists present their arguments as 'scientific'. Alluding to science in this way is indicative of 'clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic'.

      To that end, we can say that while atheism per se is not a religion, so called New Atheism (the modern attempt to disseminate the atheist world-view) certainly is from at least one anthropological viewpoint. And it's fascinating to be able to witness anti-religion becoming a social movement and the birth of New Atheism which, to all intents and purposes, is becoming religion in its own right.

      In a nutshell: Atheism says nothing other than a lack of belief in a deity or belief a deity does not exist. New Atheism is different, it represents the establishment and dissemination of a world view, through cultural means, by which concepts of the world and existence are promoted in a way which suggests they are uniquely real. So although the content of the world-view may be different, in terms of function New Atheism is no different to a religion such as Christianity. Functionally they are the same.

      1. Shadesbreath profile image90
        Shadesbreathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I think you're close to the heart of it here.  I would say that 2 other essentially defining characteristics beyond your five up there are the presence of priests/shamans and rituals.  Religions have to have intermediaries. By definition, they begin with cults, having a central figure of great super-natural connection, and they then expand to sects and, if large enough, qualify as religion.  This requires at first a central figure as the go between, the keeper of the connections to the spirit world, and, for the religion to continue after his/her death, someone has to step in and teach/disseminate.  Beyond that, religion needs rituals to bind its constituents A) to the supernatural and B) to each other as a community having a relationship to the belief set/deity.

        Atheism fails to "qualify" on the priest/shaman part.  The intermediary for atheism is non-existent because there is nothing to intermediate with.  One cannot mediate with the absence of a deity or spirit.  Simply having a powerful speaker extolling the virtues of not being gullible is not enough. Unless he begins invoking the "binding commonality of reason" which can become, in a way, the spirit of non-spirituality.

        The necessary ritual element of religion I think is, at least mostly, there for atheism.  I think the ritual of arguing against anyone who brings their religion into a secular setting is, well, a ritual.  It is ritual argumentation that binds atheists as a community.

        The big commonality between atheists and religious people is that both require blind faith given that there is no concrete evidence that there is or is not a god.  There are only arguments.  The idea that "you can't prove a negative" is the ironic source of strength for both sides, albeit by vastly different means.

        1. Don W profile image84
          Don Wposted 6 years ago in reply to this



          That's interesting Shadesbreath. Terms like pseudo-religion and quasi-religion reflect the distinction you make, i.e. systems which have some but not all the elements of 'religion'. Anthropologically though there's no distinction based on 'authenticity' if you will.

          Anthropologists are interested in the practices of religion, only in as much as they shed light on the underlying social function. In that context your priests/shamans perform the function of imparting some esoteric, specialist knowledge, insight or understanding to 'lay people' who don't posses such insight, knowledge and understanding. It is this knowledge etc which distinguishes the priest/shaman from others. So someone recognised as having special knowledge/insight beyond that of a 'lay person' within such a system is the functional equivalent of a priests/shaman, regardless of what the special knowledge, insight and understanding actually relates to.

          Anthropologists are not looking at sameness of form, but sameness of function. So whether someone imparts his knowledge/insight of a deity and mediates between lay people and god, or whether someone imparts his knowledge/insight of science and mediates between lay people and the complexities of a scientific understanding of the universe is irrelevant. They perform the same function within the system. So New Atheism has figures who serve the function of priests/shamans. We can identify rituals this way also. We can say that the ridiculing of theists is a ritual by virtue of the function it serves within New Atheism, compared to the similar function served by rituals in other systems.

      2. Daniel Carter profile image92
        Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        New Atheism, then are people who need to collectively support each other for some reason, and do some evangelizing for their cause, just as believers need to gather and do the same.

        It sounds like a bunch of disaffected believers who are still codependent on each other. And perhaps that is the case. I don't really know. However, I don't see atheists on HP patting each other on the back much. They seem more independent of each other in my observation.

        1. Don W profile image84
          Don Wposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          New Atheists need as much or as little validation of their world-view as the next person. The mechanisms for that exists within the system. It may differ in form but it's there. Indeed every group, not just religious groups, has some way of validating those in the group.

          Usually that consists of elevating the differences between those in the group compared to 'others'. Someone of a different nationality is not just culturally different but is probably inferior, and in some cases subhuman! A Christian does not just have a different belief to an atheist, he is stupid and mentally dysfunctional! An atheist does not just have a different world-view to a theist, he is in fact the devil incarnate, bent on dragging the world to hell in a hand basket!

          The actual subject is unimportant. What's important is that there's a difference. Because then you have 'same' (us) and 'different' (them) which are the ingredients for conflict. We can see this being played out in the social Petri dish that is the HP forum. In the religion forum you are seeing aspects of group and inter-group dynamics: 1) a dominance and territory conflict between one group (atheists/anti-religionists) and those perceived as the 'others' (theists/religionists), 2) people validating themselves as individuals and validating their group through the process of elevating the differences between their group and the 'others'. This is a function of every group regardless of who is in the group or what defines it. New Atheism as a group is no different in that regard to any other group,and individuals who are New Atheists are no different to other individuals in that regard either. 

          What's more interesting is that this forum is a microcosm of society in that respect. What defines a group in society is irrelevant also. Being able to discern a difference is what's important. Inter group dynamics then takes it from there, and conflict is the result. It matters little what those differences are. Those conflicts, both violent and verbal, are the result of inter-group dynamics. They are not the result of one particular type of belief compared to another. They would happen regardless. The severity of the conflict is not determined by the beliefs involved either, but by cultural, historical and socio-political factors.

          1. hanging out profile image62
            hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            sounds like atheism had another church split

            lol

            bad atheist evangelising?
            lol

            poor preaching?
            lol

            someone get caught with a false doctrine?
            lol

            Just another religion! but nastier, run by psychopathic b+tches.

    4. Daniel Carter profile image92
      Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      There may be some truth in what you write, but I think that's part of the misunderstanding. I don't think most atheists really "hate" people, God, or Christ. I think they challenge their beliefs in them. The challenging is so severe at times that believers simply assume that atheists are haters. Not necessarily so.

      Additionally, I don't think atheists group together. Most of the ones on HP are very independent of each other, and usually are not "joiners" of any type of organization. They are rather much more renegades.

      I'm not an atheist, agnostic, or believer. I don't identify with any of it. I grew up a religious Christian, and I understand the thoughts, and culture. But I no longer identify with it.

      Earnesthubs and Mark Knowles are as different as snow and coal in regard to their approach and how they view Christian beliefs, or any other religious beliefs. Cagsil and others also are very independent in their thinking and take a completely different approach to all this.

      Perhaps a generalization of atheists and non believers as you describe it is a little to easy to make. I think it's more complex than you describe.

      Oh, and by the way, there is nothing wrong with being a believer. The people I love most in this life are devout believers. Contesting a person's beliefs should be a way of examining to strengthen one's own convictions. If those convictions are never questioned, their value decreases. It's no different if you are a believer or an atheist.

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Good observations Daniel. smile

      2. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That's a good response.
        I agree that there is "no difference if you are a believer or an athesit" (and some atheists don't go by that name, they don't go by any name or may choose to go by "natureist" Ć«volutionist etc

        I've seen BOTH have very good morals and show kindness

        1. Daniel Carter profile image92
          Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Exactly.
          I don't think either believers or atheists can be classified good or bad. They are all just people. And most likely, quite likable in many cases.

          1. 0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think it is mainly personalities too - some are rather outspoken/blunt/forceful whether christian or atheist; some are very rigid about what they believe (or don't believe) and others are more open-minded.
            I've seen the slagging off in both directions - personal insults, accusations of ignorance etc.

      3. hanging out profile image62
        hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I guess you have read very few of the atheist posts in any of the obvious christian topics but i could be wrong so let me phrase it this way perhaps you have read a lot of atheist posts responding to obvious christian topics but the malicious tone has been unnoticed by you.
        here is mark knowles first reply here:

        At least we all agree it is the Christians making the first move. 2,000 years of doing this has caused 2,000 years of conflict.
        When will you learn?

        nice huh. short, brief, didn't take up a lot of room. Can you see the nastiness now?

        here is marks other reply:
        Have you ever even read a history book? You seem ignorant of the many religious wars in the past. And the current one brewing. All caused by religionists like yourself "talking about god."

        I will continue to try and stop you spreading hatred and causing wars. It is my duty as a rational human being.

        too which i already replied to this.

        here is an earnest common post
        "Nice little psychopath! lol"
        or this one
        "No person can fail at fairy worship. smile"

        Have you noticed the famous term "sky fairy" or acknowledged the malice from cagsil..
        Perhaps if you hang around you will notice that not one question gets out there without these so called undisturbing indivduals nasty replies.

        There are indeed some nice people in the world but that is because a nice set of circumstances allows for that. These atheists may be nice people in real life but they suck in here.

        1. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          All taken out of context, and comments on my own posts! lol lol
          Am I allowed to use the "out of context" excuse too? lol

        2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          hanging out, Those words are filled with hate and nastiness to me also.

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Which words are full of nastiness?
            Yours or hers? smile

            1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              earnest, you already know the answer, so why play unecessary games?

    5. mythbuster profile image85
      mythbusterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      schoolgirlforreal,

      in my observations, most atheists do not "hate" Christians, however, they do dislike - even "hate" the behaviors and assertions that many/most Christians make...

      ...as well as the lack of critical thinking many Christians display when discussing religion.

    6. Titen-Sxull profile image93
      Titen-Sxullposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "This Group professes pride in hating Christians or Christ"

      While some hardcore atheists might have an extreme dislike of Christians I don't think it crosses over into hate. And they can't hate Christ either, because that would be the equivalent of hating Harry Potter or Hercules, he's a fictional legendary character.

      Also there is a big key difference between any group of atheists and any cult or religion - superstition. Atheists have no superstitions or deities.

      It sounds like you are simply calling them a cult because you don't like the idea that Atheists are forming groups and standing up for themselves and their lack of belief.

    7. Never_Forget profile image60
      Never_Forgetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Atheists are no different than Christians or any other religion. They have there own mind made up already and they all rely on faith. Faith is something that humans can really get down with, naturally. Our brains are able to convince us that anything is true if we believe it is.

      Atheist arguments make my head explode just as fast as Christian arguments, and when I see them argue with each other, my spine usually disintegrates and my brain stem melts down my lifeless back. It only lasts for a couple hours though.

      1. 0
        Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        How exactly do you feel that atheists rely on faith? By definition, atheists do not involve themselves in faith, and it is one of the fundamental aspects of being an atheist. Seriously...GET A DICTIONARY PEOPLE!

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Texasbeta, I agree

    8. 0
      Amie Warrenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Not an atheist or a Christian, but just want to make an observation. Every cult in the world that has ever had a mass suicide or a mass murder was a Christian cult.  More Christian cults exist on earth than any other kind. Kinda strange that Christians are the first people to use the "cult" word against anyone who doesn't agree with them when they start most of the cults.

      1. 0
        klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Correction - there were those groups that commited mass suicide in order to avoid being enslaved by Christians - The Native American tribes of the Caribbean.

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Amie, These group of people could have not been true christians to begin with. Where did you recieve your information about christians using the cult word against someone who doesn't agree with them.? I am not in a christian cult, that sounds like witchcraft. It's your choice to rebel against God, true and holy word.

      3. 0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I think the pentecostal churches I went to years ago were very cultish and based on fear.  Of course, I met some lovely people (and also nutcases)

    9. 0
      Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I am sorry...well, not really, but you are entirely incorrect. A religion requires a belief in a supernatural force, which atheists do not. You really need to start with a dictionary to learn what the word religion means. How you go from Group=religion=cult is one of the most juvenile things I have read in a while. I am awfully let down that you appear to have not a clue.

  2. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    So, then what you say about me? hmm

    I am neither, an atheist or religious folk.

    And some people will argue with you about whether or not, "atheism" is a religion, in and of, itself.

    However, I would argue with them, just to let them know that being "atheist" is a religion, even if they don't recognize it as one.

    Atheism isn't an organized religion, because there are not enough of them to become organized, like that of Christian or Islamic.

    1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
      schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      cags,
      really? not enough to become organized...hmm.....you are right--I mean I believe you,

      As for you, I must say I LIKE people as long as they don't argue and be mean smile  so you're ok in my book , so long as you're nice to me! ;-)
      :-)

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Schoolgirl,

        Just think about it for just for a second....

        There are 1.5 billion people of the Muslim religion.
        There are roughly about 2.5 billion people of Christian or other religions.

        That makes about 4 Billion people dedicated to some religion with regards to a god. Now, there are only 6.6 Billion people in the world today?

        At least 2.6 billion people are mixed into a melting pot of all sorts of beliefs.

        Trust- Atheism is nowhere near an organized religion. lol

        1. DevLin profile image60
          DevLinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Humanists?

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Mixed in. lol

            1. 0
              kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol lol lol

        2. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
          schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          agreed though I made some good points!

        3. LeslieAdrienne profile image80
          LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Cags,

          Good info...are the statistics verifiable?

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            As far as stats go?

            I trust in no stats that I haven't worked out myself. Especially, if provided by religious leaders or political leaders.

            But, as far as, 2/3 of the world believing in a god. Yes. And, it's not a good thing.

        4. 0
          china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          There is no group of cult - there are just loads of thinking people who oppose the spread of vicious ideologies that promote hate and destruction while talking mealy mouthed rubbish about love.

      2. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Cagsil wrote   ....I am neither, an atheist or religious folk.

        ================================

           REALLY ???   What is the definition of an Atheist then?

            When did they change it??

           schoolgirlforreal   Your post was an accurate statement.

           As was LeslieAdrienne

           But that is because  Christians are causing all of the problems by existing.  If we would quit doing that, there wouldn't be any problem. They would quit doing what they enjoy doing so much.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Jerami,

          Let me get this straight - the problem is not Christians evangelizing, bearing witness, spreading the word - it is people asking you to keep your beliefs private that is the problem?

          Did I get that right?

          Starting threads like this directly aimed at atheists is not what causes fights. It is all the fault of anyone who responds. I see. Wow - just an observation, but - dear me - no wonder your religion has caused 2000 years of wars. sad

        2. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          What part are you questioning? I didn't say anything about being an atheist.

          I said I would argue with it, because being an atheist is the dia-metrically opposing view of the Christian religious view.

          It's just unorganized, as I said. Or do you not comprehend well enough to understand those who argue against you?

          An "atheist" maintains a "belief" of no god or not the "god" of the bible.

          Mark Knowles argues with everyone, and I find it difficult to even call him an "atheist".

          1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
            schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            lol

        3. LeslieAdrienne profile image80
          LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Jerami,

          You said, "Christians are causing all of the problems by existing. If we would quit doing that, there wouldn't be any problem."

          How do you suggest we stop existing???

          1. Rishy Rich profile image79
            Rishy Richposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Easiest way is by converting smile

            1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              No way !

              1. Druid Dude profile image61
                Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No shopping for prayer rugs at Wal-Mart! Do away with all churches, mosques, synagogues. Learn the Spiritual path that exists within.

                1. Dale Nelson profile image27
                  Dale Nelsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I think Drud dude explains it hte best. If you consider that the whole aim of Christianity is self improvement and respect for others and oneself, then it would be contrary to the belief system to even entertain these type of discussions. Sure I understand spread the word, but at what cost.

                  Personally, I would label myself as agnoostic if I had to choose a label.

                  The reason would be that deciding on a deity, would contradict the essence of all the "good books" and the "word".

                  The decision to link religion to a tangible thing like a building is where I have a problem. The mere fact of comparing other dress sense at Sunday church, mass etc. goes against everything that the lessons are.

                  So to sum up the statement by Druid Dude, choosing a spiritual path should have no direct assumption that one religion is greater than the other. This statement assumes that God is determining which people are hsi followers by their choice of reading material or deity name.

                  Just my opinion, so to me a label of Christianity contradicts the purpose of its teachings. Just because the world has changed in 2000 years should not influence the spiritual path by subscribing to a tangible philosophy.

          2. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I was just attempting to show how ridiculous the argument is
            that Christians are causing all of the problems.

              Last time I checked it takes two to fight. 

              I can see in my mind, a bully going over to the little kid in the play ground and saying;  "I told you to not come here, Don't make me beat you up again" 
               You are causing conflict by coming here.
               If you would just do as "I" say, this would be a peaceful play ground, You are ruining it for the rest of us.
               SO   GO   HOME ...   then I can find peace.

            1. h.a.borcich profile image61
              h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Jerami,
                This may help in understanding the typical tactics used by a few atheists on this forum.

                Projecting blame. Abusers often engage in an insidious type of manipulation that involves blaming the victim for the behavior. Such perpetrators may accuse the victim of "pushing buttons" or "provoking" the abuse. By diverting attention to the victim's actions, the perpetrator avoids taking responsibility for the abusive behavior.

                They won't look at what they do, but their behavior is obvious. God Bless

              1. Jerami profile image78
                Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yea  like seing the dirt on the back of our knees but can't take the efort to look at the back of their own.

              2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                h.a.borich, That's exactly what I see happening all the time.

      3. IntimatEvolution profile image84
        IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Are you grouping yourself one way or another???  No- and you haven't in the past.  So, (as someone who has been here on HP a while would ONLY know) in this regards you're nothing, but, an individual who stands out from the rest of the other non-groupies here at HP; because your looking to be recognized for your individuality, unlike the other non-groupies in here.  Yes,  that is what I'd say about you.big_smile

    2. Pearldiver profile image88
      Pearldiverposted 6 years ago

      LOL hehe?????????????? hmm  How Arogant...

      As Free Thinkers who have taken the time to establish that the world is Not Flat... Those that you refer to are merely declaring an abstinance from FreeMasonary smile

      Sheeeesh... have you Not Considered that or were you too busy Judging? roll

      1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Let me point out , from listening to an experienced former-Freemason that freemasonry has Rituals which are bizarre and cult like and oppose Christ-

        1. Pearldiver profile image88
          Pearldiverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          OMG Why are you showing the world the height of your ignorance by Ranting About Something So Close to Your Own Promoted Beliefs That you don't know anything about?? roll

          Let Me Point Out TO YOU....

          That One of the KEY Primary Pre-requisites to BECOMING a FreeMason is that the member MUST BELIEVE in the existance of a Higher Being!!! lol

          You 'Listened' to a Who? lol

          Sheeesh.... If you're gonna Spread The Word.... At Least KNOW What You Are Talking About!! roll hmm

          So...... You Spread your Wisdom and Live Your Life based on HEARSAY??  hmm

          1. 0
            kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            big_smile

            Wish I worded it that way, glad you did.  I was on my rant when I reversed and saw yours.  Thanks

            Great Post

            big_smile

        2. Daniel Carter profile image92
          Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Anything that is "unfamiliar" is going to feel like a threat. What if the rituals of the Freemasons, which precede Christ by at least a few thousand years, were the actual "true" rituals of belief in God? Just as Judaism preceeded it, and those scriptures (the OT) are INCLUDED with Christian belief?

          Hmmmmm..... Not so weird in the respect.

      2. LeslieAdrienne profile image80
        LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        pearldiver,

        Did you know that there is actually an organized group of people who swear the earth is flat......they say the pictures from space are a distortion caused by something that I can't pronounce.....

        I think they are called the Flat Earth Society....google it.......

    3. cheaptrick profile image65
      cheaptrickposted 6 years ago

      Hi Y'all!I'm a dyslexic atheist and I'm tell-en ya there is no Dog!

      1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        smile lol

      2. LeslieAdrienne profile image80
        LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        cheaptrick

        Don't trip if you get bit. smile

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          This one came from Henry Makow Ph.D.

          The Dog Centered Life

          September 5, 2010

          Today, while walking my dog, I saw a white-haired lady drive by in a convertible.

          A large golden retriever was in the back seat.

          It seemed the dog was being chauffeured by the lady!

          Then it hit me:

          "We all have to serve somebody."

          Human beings are ornery creatures.

          Instead of serving G-O-D, naturally we would get it backwards.

          We serve D-O-G!

          Why is this?

          Full article:

          http://www.henrymakow.com/the_dog_centered_life.html

    4. skyfire profile image73
      skyfireposted 6 years ago

      Not true. Going by the definition religion, it's not even unorganized religion. If atheism is religion then being apple fan or microsoft fan is like religion in itself.

      1. 0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        well that's where the word fanatic comes from

    5. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 6 years ago

      " All caused by religionists like yourself "talking about god.""

      Ever considered that Satan may be responsible for stirring up those wars, no of course you don't believe in him do you.....

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So - you think you are doing what Satan tells you then? Interesting that you refuse to take responsibility and instead blame it on an invisible demon. No wonder your belief system causes so many wars. sad

        You are responsible for your own actions. You.

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Mark, how about be responsible for your own actions? I would like to see you do that for a change.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Really? I take full responsibility for my actions. I do not need to hide behind a fake user name or invisible super being.

            You sure are brave though - hiding behind a user name and preaching agin wot ur god sez. How very courageous of you. lol

            1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Mark, see that's what I mean, your mocking, disrspecting and insulting behavior. You refuse to be responsible for acting that way, but rather blame your behavior on people who believe in God, and hate christians who have faith in the bible. Your words don't offend me at all, it only stir me to praise God even more. Have a great day!

              1. theherbivorehippi profile image84
                theherbivorehippiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Not trying to be insulting but don't you think that it is insulting or disrespectful to us non-believers to constantly be told that we are wrong or be put down for what our thoughts.  Just because you (using the word "you" in general terms)feel that you are right, doesn't make you right.   I think that non-believers are constantly "talked" down to on here so we have the right to defend ourselves, just as you do. 

                These forum topics are started but then Christians seem to get so offended when they were targeted at putting "us" down to begin with.  Hypocritical, no?

                1. Don W profile image84
                  Don Wposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  If a theist doesn't like comments made by non theists, then they can either argue/discuss it (within the rules of the forum) or sign up to a private forum with tighter controls over who posts. Likewise if a non theist is offended by what theists say, they can either argue/discuss it or sign up for a different forum.

                  Either way, voluntarily entering a public forum, then entering the section called 'religion and philosophy' then complaining about people (theists and non-theists) talking about religion and philosophy, doesn't seem particularly sensible.

                  1. theherbivorehippi profile image84
                    theherbivorehippiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    lmao..whatever.  REad the threads and get your shit straight before you comment.  Actually....read the opening topic.  I have been very polite on here.  I love the people that post and want a debate but you want things your way like a two year child.  You are right and everyone else is wrong.  This is why I stay out of the forums.  You have the right to an opinion....just keep it to yourself to make everyone else happy.

                  2. Don W profile image84
                    Don Wposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm not suggesting you've been impolite. I have no idea whether you have or haven't. You may have been the soul of civility, but that isn't really relevant. I'm simply suggesting that complaining about people posting their religious and philosophical opinions, arguments and beliefs in a public 'religion and philosophy' forum seems futile. That's akin to trying to stop someone banging their head against a brick wall. Of course you're free to bang your head against a brick wall if want to, but suggesting it isn't very fruitful hardly constitutes trying to have things my way.

                    As for people keeping their opinions to themselves. HubPages could allow only verified facts to be posted, rather than opinion. But then the forum wouldn't really be a forum. It would be ... well a giant encyclopaedia. So it's not really surprising on a forum intended to allow the public to express opinions, to find members of the public actually expressing their opinions. Suggesting people keep their opinions to themselves defeats the object of having a forum.

                    I really don't mean to be facetious, but I'm not not sure what you're saying. If you're saying people could temper their language, refrain from personal attacks, be more civil with each other while expressing their opinions, I totally agree. But I disagree with the suggestion that it's "disrespectful to us non-believers to constantly be told that we are wrong". Saying you think someone is wrong is not disrespectful if you think someone is wrong, whether you are a theist or a non-theist. The disrespect lies in how it's conveyed. In this post, I've expressed disagreement with you, and I've given my reasons. This post may be confusing, boring, facetious, irrelevant, rambling and nonsensical but I think it's fair to say it isn't disrespectful to you. So it can be done. Opinions aren't the problem, it's how people express them that can sometimes be an issue.

                    Besides that, seeing opinions that differ from our own takes us out of our comfort zone. It helps us develop. Isn't that what it's all about, living an learning as we go.

                2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                  Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi theherbivorehippi, nice to meet you. Yes it is insulting for anyone to constantly put down or tell someone they are wrong. I have noticed that some of the unbelievers constantly enter the christian forums calling awful names, being manipulative and cruel toward the people that believe in God and the bible. Those are not putdown words that you see in my messages above. It's a difference when telling the truth to someone when it is obvious the person is always rude toward christians. It's not polite to defend a person when you can see clearly the person behavior is what I described. I don't have to defend myself, but stand strong on my belief in God. I don't feel I was right, I know my message was correct. I don't see anywhere where the christians put the unbelievers down to begin with.

              2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No - I take full responsibility for my actions. I know what I am doing and why I do it. The reason I choose to do it is in an attempt to stop peopel such as yourself from causing the conflicts you do. I have seen you express god's opinion and claim it is not yours. I do not hate Christians who have faith in the bible. I despair of Christians like yourself who claim to be righteous.

                I am well aware you do not care what I think and no matter what I say - you will continue to stir trouble and call it "praising god,."

                I guess my choice to instead make fun of you comes from my frustration at watching groups of peopel such as yourself claim to be "loving" just causing strife.

                I honestly do not know what else to do. I have tried being reasonable, I have tried to explain to you that Jesus is allegorical and god is an internal not external being and does not exist outside you, but still you go waving your bibles and flaunting your crosses at the Muslims and unbelievers.

                So I guess I have come to the point where I feel I aught to do something in order to protect myself from the coming clash, but have decided that violence is not an option I choose to use, because that would make me just as bad as you christ-cultists. Reason does not work, because if I say anything contrary to your  beliefs - you will merely accuse me of being an agent of Satan.

                So - reason and violence are out. My remaining two options are - ignore you and sit back and watch the inevitable conflict in the hope I can put me and mine out of harms way or express myself in a non violent way. As I am naturally sarcastic and witty - I choose to make fun of you instead, in the vain hope that I may persuade any undecided onlookers that the responses I illicit will help them to make a rational decision.

                I happen to be on the Internet all day long in any case, and this is a convenient way of distracting myself from work related tasks. I wouldn't normally be in a position to interact with your type of evangelical, righteous Christian.

                Either way - it satisfies my need to feel I have done something and allows me to express my frustration. It sometimes has a positive effect and I have had quite a few people write thanking me for helping them to see what they had become. It is unlikely to cause any harm because most believers - like yourself - are largely immune to any suggestion that your belief system is a faulty one and will defend it to the death once fully indoctrinated.

                I could call my self righteous and fighting for goodness and love. I could even claim that god told me to do this. I could even quote teh bible to back up my viewpoint.

                But - then I would have finally become what I am fighting against - as Jerami keeps telling me I already am. His motives are not pure though. He just wants me to shut up and stop attacking his precarious belief system.

                I have read your bible. It is cruel, manipulative, awful and insulting to non believers. You have no authority and do not take responsibility for your own actions. Nor do you follow the tenets you claim your righteousness through. You have to earn respect - not demand it as you do. You have done nothing to earn my respect.

                I wonder if you have even read your bible. Probably just the good bits huh? wink

                1. 0
                  china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I notice the change from few line replies to book-length,  I guess business is slower these days ?  big_smile

                  Persoanlly I find I have gone the other way with post length, christians seem to find it hard to read more than one line, or reply from the hip after one line anyway.

                  Good luck with your current indulgence of trying to actually explain why their nonsense is just nonsense, I am beginning to favour the idea of bringing back the inquisition.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Well - I certainly understand why the Romans used to feed them to the lions. lol

                2. h.a.borcich profile image61
                  h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Mark,
                    This post was very honest and I am glad to see it. Only brave people face a mirror and get naked with themselves.
                    What you believe in or don't believe in is fine with me. Be the person you want to be. I feel that same way towards Earnst, Cags, and everyone else, too. Just afford me the same freedom.
                    Start threads about what irks you about christians. I would not barge into such a thread mocking and ridiculing. I personally would be more inclined to read only such a thread and utilize it for self examination.
                    In the same way, when threads exist about christian living or what verse has helped me today, I would hope to not see it pounced on by those who believe differently. These threads are not for demanding proof or discussion of why believe.
                     There should also be threads for debating religions or beliefs. Those who want to discuss the "empirical proofs" or if there is a God should be able to.
                     It comes down to respecting each other as people. We don't have to change our beliefs to participate, we just have to be tolerant knowing there is room for us all. But nobody wants to be a target on every thread.
                    Have a great day Mark

                  1. Beelzedad profile image61
                    Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Respect and tolerance are not the same thing. If the beliefs of religions demands we be tolerant, then we will not garner respect for one another, but will instead just tolerate each other. This will always keep us divided as humans.

                    The problem also is that religions demand intolerance to those who do not share the same beliefs. The actions of believers make that clearly evident.

                    Religions will have to drastically change their dogma to be tolerant of others before respect has a chance to intervene. smile

                    1. aguasilver profile image87
                      aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      How can anyone think that a the body Christ, whose believers are required to welcome ANYBODY who wishes to join them in Christ, is intolerant?

                      There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance.

                      I tolerate many secular actions, because the secular world is entitled to do as it wishes, but I do not accept many secular activities and actions, I recognise them as error and sin, and reserve my right to point out the error and sin as the bible indicates believers should.

                      Tolerance should also work both ways, and the day that I enter an atheist forum topic and start maligning the posters, I would consider I was showing extreme intolerance.

                      Are there any atheist forums on HubPages?

                    2. h.a.borcich profile image61
                      h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      I guess I am not relating as a "religion" then. I am speaking on a personal level. I relate to people smile

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I already did. I was invited to this one. sad

                    1. h.a.borcich profile image61
                      h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      What does my rely have to do with the other? I certainly meant no digs at you Mark. I won't take responsibility for what I didn't post.

                3. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                  Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi Mark, Wow, I respect the fact that you are being honest about your behavior. I disagree that we as christians are causing conflicts because we choose to share our beliefs on the forums, and you have no right to try to stop us. It is very disrespectful. I am expressing facts on the christian forums, not OPINIONS. Being frustrated is no excuse for childish behavior and mocking christians. We don't need your explanation, so why waste your time trying to convert us to think like you? I will never come on atheist forum and try to hijack it, and spread ugly remarks all over it. Simple fact is because I believe in maturity as a grown up. I love you and everyone, I will not allow hatred to enter my heart. It is obvious that you hate christians, and there is no good enough reason for that. Take care

                  1. h.a.borcich profile image61
                    h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this


                    We all have our opinions, yet I think a more gracious response would be of more help toward peace. Learning to agree to disagree can be a good thing.

                    1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                      Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Hi h.a.boricich, I agree with all my heart. Peace is what we are trying to keep in the forums, but the enemy is using certain people to bring destruction. I have enjoyed reading your posts above. You hit the nail on the mark discussing about freedom , and respect. Thanks for sharing the truth! Have a blessed day.

                  2. Randy Godwin profile image94
                    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    "Woman of courage"  Just curious, how did you come to use this name for writing and posting here?  Did someone give it to you or is it self determination?  What makes you a "woman of courage"?  I mean other than claiming to speak for your god?  I do admit it takes quite a bit of courage to claim to know what a god thinks and wants and to act as his mouthpiece.  Did he personally ask you to do this, as in, voices inside your head?

                    1. hanging out profile image62
                      hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      she is a woman hence the word women, got that. okay i want to go slow so you u n d e r s t a n d     clearly. okay randy.....

                      of courage... do you know the definition of courage? well,  you can look it up. Courage comes from within and it means bravery. Perhaps she is brave because of her past, the past can often be harmful, like when that bus hit you randy. lol

                      Speaking for God is something that all christians can do.. i mean, get a book by any author and then recite it to people and hurrah! not only do you have the appearance of being smarter than you are, you talk for them.. not a hard concept for a minimally iq'd person. Ask a friend to help you understand.

                  3. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    So - accusing me of being a liar is helping how exactly? I reject this form of love. You do not love me - because if you did - you would not behave this way. I see you do have a very high opinion of yourself, but I do not consider that to be mature.

                    You have no facts. merely opinions. The facts show clearly 2,000 years of wars and conflicts caused by your religion. I ask for that to stop.

                    1. hanging out profile image62
                      hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Love manifests in many ways. A mother will discipline her child. Yell at her child, spank even, hug, tickle, teach, instruct but one thing a mother will never do is wave and smile and sit quietly while her child walks out into traffic.
                      You think because christians get mad at your many insulting inferences that we do not love, then you go ahead and again infer more into that by saying we do not walk the walk.
                      You are totally plain wrong.
                      Jesus made a whip and chased out moneylenders,
                      Jesus got angry a few other times.
                      we get angry at you
                      often.
                      but we sin not nor does it ruin our walk with God, it may have just the opposite effect, i thank god i am not like you.
                      have a nice day.
                      try to find real truth with honesty and sincerity not just your troubled inferences.

                4. hanging out profile image62
                  hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  more inference... if you can ever separate yourself from your wonderful ability to base all knowledge on your personal inference, you might actually know/learn something. There are so many false accusations in your posts .. i am prone to believe that you are the one who pretends to be wise and isn't and you spread falseness around in buckets like the ones you shout against. You tell others they have no facts and you decline to supply any. Your main line, unproven to date, is something about 2,000 years of wars and conflicts caused by your religion. I ask for that to stop..

                  lol wotalotofrot
                  scroll back and see if you can figure out how you got in this position of trying to stop all of christianity by posting in hubpages and not really posting  but just by yelling and bullying and lying to christians in hubpages. Hubpages is hubpages mark, get a radiostation.. blogtalkradio.com and at least give ppl the choice of listening to you. LOL. Instead of stomping around here like a mad man proclaiming you see a problem here when there is not.
                  There is a real world out there, you are out of touch with it, you prefer to talk about 2000 yrs ago and wars in the past. Get relevant. Get out of the house instead of being on the computer all day, actually go outside when you want to rant on hubpages. Breathe some fresh air or whatever. Clear the cobwebs outta yer brain.

      2. Rishy Rich profile image79
        Rishy Richposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "Ever considered that Satan may be responsible for stirring up those wars, no of course you don't believe in him do you....."


        Of course it is! the Devil has a new name...its called faith, blind faith. Its inside you & this Satan inside you is responsible for stirring up those wars!

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Rishy, Your words are so distorted, and manipulative.

    6. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago

      Mark Knowle wrote ...
         Let me get this straight - the problem is not Christians evangelizing, bearing witness, spreading the word - it is people asking you to keep your beliefs private that is the problem?
      -------------------------------------------
         What you do not see is that you are doing the same thing as some "Christians ?" are doing, concerning Homosexuals.
         If they would just keep their beliefs to themselves, there wouldn't be a problem.  Don't ask, don't tell.
         That isn't the right behavior in that respect, and it isn't
      right for you to do either.

        You are as guilty as those that you criticize, but you are throwing your rocks at a different group of people.

      You my friend are just as much "THE CAUSE" of all the conflict as  "every one else".

          When we have to start using self justification tactics, we loose sight of the true issues.

          It is pride and self justification that continues to cause conflict.  The ...  ; "I'm right and you are wrong, and I'm not listening to a fool such as you"  mentality causes conflict regardless of who is right or wrong.
       
         In these cases no one is right!!

      1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        good point

      2. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Not even remotely similar Jerami. This is just another ludicrous defense of your religion. The fact that your thinking is so clouded as to see these two as the same really shows how desperate you are.
         

        When I am attacked - as religionsts have been attacking people since its inception - I will defend myself.


        No Jerami - I am not. I am defending myself and the people I care for. If peopel like me did not stand up to religion - we should still be burning witches at the stake and teaching nonsensical religious clap trap in science classes.


        Nonsense. Read any history book to see the damage your religion does. I have a right to defend myself and I see very clearly - your religion and the Muslim religion heading for each other like a train wreck. I am trying to prevent that.

        Keep your religion to yourself and we do not have a problem. It is really not worth responding in depth to your nonsensical argument that Christians wanting two consenting adults' behavior to be made illegal is the same as me politely requesting you stop spreading your religious beliefs - because - YOU are causing the fight by doing so - I am merely defending myself.

    7. Joe Badtoe profile image61
      Joe Badtoeposted 6 years ago

      Look!

      Jesus was a hippie
      He liked wine
      and liked women

      He was a socialist yes you heard me a SOCIALIST ie left wing

      He hated material wealth
      He hated military rulers
      He never followed fashion
      He had a beard
      He looked stoned
      He wore sandals
      He shared his food and drink with so many people that's why he invented the water into wine and the loaves appearing out of nowhere thing. They were great parties by the way but the Romans didn't know when to stop.

      He loved people
      He hated war

      He had friends from other religions and they hung out together. He did not have disciples they were just a close group of friends.

      His dad approved of his lifestyle

      He never evangalised anybody he simply spoke as he saw it, but he clearly underestimated those sharks who would use his simple words to scare people into thinking that a threat to their beliefs was imminent therefore lets go kill some people.

      He hates TV evangelists which is why he sent those women to to them.

      Jesus doesn't need supposed christians making up rules as they go along. There are no rules, there is no reason to wear a badge proclaiming your faith, just do good deeds and expect no reward. Then you'll get noticed for being a good person and not for being a pain in the ass evangalist claiming to have a front seat in heaven.

      Comprende?

      CC Jesus, God, Mary and Judas (oh come on what happened to forgiveness?).

    8. luvpassion profile image60
      luvpassionposted 6 years ago

      This is so cool...I got all this started by saying I had an atheist groupie list. lol lol

      I wasn't even trying to rabble rouse...I'm good. wink

      P.S. Not an atheist.

      1. Joe Badtoe profile image61
        Joe Badtoeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I tried to start an anarchists group but I didn't feel like I belonged.

        1. Daniel Carter profile image92
          Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Twisted.
          I so enjoyed this.
          lol

          1. luvpassion profile image60
            luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Watch this! Actually, there's only a few atheists on hubpages that will take a stand, while others simply back up that stand or discontinue an argument when the others don't join in...hence groupie. lol lol

            1. earnestshub profile image89
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Bulldust! lol

              1. luvpassion profile image60
                luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Uh huh...true dust. lol

                1. earnestshub profile image89
                  earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Nothing of the sort. Different people altogether and not surprising.
                  People who don't babble over make believe invisible no show fairies can come from many walks of life. smile

                  1. luvpassion profile image60
                    luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Horsehooey! lol

                    1. Daniel Carter profile image92
                      Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Such language, you two!

                    2. earnestshub profile image89
                      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Well where do we non followers of the tooth fairy come all from then? smile

                  2. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
                    schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Same thing go w/ your kind Earnest but Leslie put it right:
                    All a Christian has to do is post anything about God and it's like throwing raw meat into a den of hungry lions..(

                    1. earnestshub profile image89
                      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      "Your kind?"
                      Very telling!

                      Not the truth though is it?

                      Most replies are to condescending statements, threats from other peoples imaginary divinities, replies to personal abuse posing as something else and statements of fact that are anything but facts aren't they?

                      Dishonesty seems to be the hallmark of religionists!

                    2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                      Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      schoolgirlforreal, that's so true! I observed this type of behavior every time. Each time a new christian forum is open, they see it as a threat, and there they go barging in trying to stop it.

            2. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
              schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              that was one of my points, luvpassion

        2. cheaptrick profile image65
          cheaptrickposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Cool dude...I tried to start an Alzheimer's meeting group...but everybody forgot to come...

          1. theherbivorehippi profile image84
            theherbivorehippiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            smile

      2. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You may have provided the fuel, luvpassion wink
        but we have our opinions otherwise-we all hold fast to our opinions

        One may say all these forums are a waste of time (on this subject)
        Or maybe people learn a thing occassionally
        Either way they enjoy "talking" and "debating"LOL

    9. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago

      Mark Knowles   wrote 
      I have a right to defend myself and I see very clearly - your religion and the Muslim religion heading for each other like a train wreck. I am trying to prevent that.

      -------------------------------------------

         If you were "truly" wanting to stop the train wreck, You would stop mugging the passengers  and head on up to the front of the train.  Ya gotta stop the engineers.  And we can't do that by taking over the caboose.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        that so innit?















        U am driving the train






















        I speek wot to u innit

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          That isn't the best answer ya got is it??


             Really think about it...  what good does beating up the choir 
             really accomplish?   

            Whether you want to admit it or not, prophesy has been marching forward at a steady pace for at least 2500 years.

             We can't stop it.
             All that we can do is to refuse to fight in their game.

            Hebrews, Christians, Islamist are coming to their final confrontation. 

             As a believer all I have to do to win, when they say choose sides or die.  Is to die.

             Those that try to save their life will loose it.
          Those that don't try to save it  will gain it.

             Those who lead into captivity will go into captivity.

             Those that live by the sword will die by the sword.

             
          This, I think, is the most important message in prophesy.


             If everyone felt that way the end would be averted.

             But NOoo ... them stupid radicals ... 
             Going to keep defending their honor.

             I plan on one of them killing me early and I won't suffer too much.
             Physical death will be the only out when the time comes.

              And it is coming no matter how loudly we protest.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah. I know you have given up and are waiting for Jesus to come back and force me to my knees. I know.

            Disgusting belief system that will destroy us, no matter how much I try and change it. Like Jesus did.

            I hope you die as you want to. That is it though.

            Bye. sad

            1. 0
              klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Smile Mark! Jesus LOVES you! big_smile

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Uhuh.

                DO I have to bend over and take it like a man? LOL Kristian love - you know what is best for me. Yay!

                Disgusting religion really. sad

                1. 0
                  klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Give them a break Mark. You need a new hobbie! Come one down to Miami, pretty girls, the beach is beautiful... great views for your photos! lol

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I loved Miami when I was there. big_smile

                    1. 0
                      klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Come on down then! Let the Christians breathe for a while! big_smile

            2. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I was just wondering ???   what kind of intelligence does it take to think that if you could change what a few people on "The Hub Pages"  believe or do not believe in;  is going to make any difference in what a few radical Muslims, radical Christians or Radical Hebrews do to bring about a great Battle.

                 Even if you could change what 10,000 people here on HP thinks, You will have done ... nothing ...  to change the minds of those people that are in control of our future in these matters.

                So keep up the good work ..  PUT OUT  every campfire of Hope that you can find.   If that is what makes you sleep better at night.

              1. Druid Dude profile image61
                Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Good one. They'll stress on the fact that other belief systems exist, until the one that they have most to fear takes control, and the beliefs become dependent on wether you want to remain attached to your noggin

          2. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
            schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Wow. Hear Hear!

    10. theherbivorehippi profile image84
      theherbivorehippiposted 6 years ago

      Well,  not to stir up more controversy smile but I would like to just say that I am a Wiccan...so perhaps I should start a thread on that?  Would all of the Christians not be offended if I started preaching my witchcraft in their direction?  Just wondering?  I'm sure, all of you (Christian folk) would not appreciate reading my threads every five minutes you come to a forum so why can you not visit the Hubpage forums without a whole list of religious topics that do nothing but get offended by other people voicing their opinion.  Obviously you know you are going to spark a reaction so you all really need to accept it or keep quiet because there is ALWAYS going to be an argument or question to your beliefs.  I have nothing against you or your religion but you can't be so naive to think people are not going to disagree with you.

      1. luvpassion profile image60
        luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        MM

        Teri smile

      2. h.a.borcich profile image61
        h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this


          Honestly, if you posted threads about wiccan things in the religions forums I would not be offended. Call it a unique talent, but I have read plenty of threads on other faiths with great interest. I did not post anything on those threads as I have nothing to offer;however, I did do some reasearch to learn more about what I saw. For me to have jumped in "preaching" would have been rude. Obviously, the talent of observing is not so common.

        1. theherbivorehippi profile image84
          theherbivorehippiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I think the purpose of an open forum though is for discussion, not observation.  I'm not personally attacking you..just merely saying that "some" people  post topics and then get offended when others don't agree with them.

          1. h.a.borcich profile image61
            h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Agreed. Public forums are generally for discussion, but if you cannot contribute to the discussion, observation would be better.
            For instance, the wiccan thread was about where other wiccans buy supplies. If I had jumped in judging and trying to share Jesus with them....I think the discussion intended would have been lost. Instead I observed and researched on my own the questions I had. I may have had the right to post but it would not have been the right thing to do.
            Hope I explained myslf better.

            1. theherbivorehippi profile image84
              theherbivorehippiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Well of course you are right...if the topic was on where to buy bibles, etc...my comment would be off topic.  However, this discussion was on atheists vs Christians so I do believe it was on topic completely.

              1. h.a.borcich profile image61
                h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Sorry I didn't realise you were speaking of this thread specifically. I though your initial post addressed the numerous threads being a problem.

                1. Druid Dude profile image61
                  Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I find, generally, that the philosophy of atheism has been raised to cult level, here, defending their "faith", yet resorting to ridicule and baseless rhetoric. On the other hand, those who embrace theism of one form or another, use some things as proof, which are merely quotes from a book written less than two thousand years ago. My particular beliefs have no problem with modern science, nor with a supreme being. But they also have little in common with the pseudo- science and the pseudo-spirituality that seems to prevail. I would think that such intelligent people would have better things to discuss. Me? WETSU

          2. Druid Dude profile image61
            Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry bout that Herbie. What makes you a hippie?

            1. theherbivorehippi profile image84
              theherbivorehippiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol   I've had the herbivore hippie nickname so long I can't even remember how I got it.  It's actually "herbi" for short.  That's what you can call me.

      3. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        tell that to the atheists and we can make a deal! free speech........
        You CAN talk about your wiccan but unless there are other wiccans here you may not get much response

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not too many DECLARED wiccans that I have noticed. Geuss they see how well the lions feed on christian flesh in these forums. I'm not a Druid, and have set about to actively pursue schizophrenia as a hobby:) BUT everyone is entitled to their opinion. Resorting to lameness is also permitted, but respectful debate, like boxing, has certain rules. Not knowing/not adhering to those rules just defeats the purpose of debate. People that resort to ridicule are defeating their good debate points.

          1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
            schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            well said.

          2. 0
            Kathryn LJposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Well I am, Herbi and I have no problem in saying it.  It's just that Wiccans don't 'witness' like Christians.  Being Wiccan is something you 'become' through personal development not something that you decide to be because someone has told you about it.  I think it is a deeply personal thing and I take it too seriously to argue with non like minded people.

      4. Elizabeth2010 profile image60
        Elizabeth2010posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Herbi... I would not be offended! that is your business and your right! I think mostly that offends is when a topic is started on christianity or something religious... which is meant for christian answers and people come in and totally run the christians in the ground and attack them! I'm sure the same can be said both ways. Just an example! If everyone would respect others! Such as, post in your own area of belief...because there are sections in these threads designed for each belief system. yet nobody respects others. They seem to want to argue and put down others! It's really sort of crazy. But it goes both ways! Christains towards Atheists and Atheists towards christians! both follow each other and bash!

        I dont go to the Atheist section myself... but I know people who do! Just watch closely... you will see!

        Such as: A thread will be started in the religion/bible area "God is good" and you will get more atheist hit on that thread than christians... just to debunk it!

        And it could be said the same for a thread started in the athiest section saying "God is not real" and you will get more christians hit on that thread than atheist!
        Both bash the other then accuse the opposite side of bashing! LOL! It's really sort of childish.. but we all partake in it!

        It seems we all have this drive in us to prove our belief system to others!

        I guess both sides are human, they can admit it or not! Human we all are!!!

    11. libby101a profile image60
      libby101aposted 6 years ago

      Are the children playing again? LOL

      1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Just a thought-

        someday us evolved humans

        will look down on this page and mutter "dumb, argumentive creatures" Lol big_smile

        1. pisean282311 profile image58
          pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          humans are both evolve in some areas of life and non evolve in some..it has nothing to do with religion or no religion..the people who made journey possible to the place where human race is now where neither christian nor muslims nor jews nor hindus..they were humans who believed in some other form of religion..now these four are dominant forms ..5k years down the line some other would..world would keep moving on...as far as being argumentive is concerned..arguments are good for growth...yes stand that my religion is only way or my non believe in religion is only way is ofcourse lame thinking but human species would evolve from this phase too...afterall humans have religion  , religion doesnot have humans..without humans religion would seize to exist and so humanity is far more important and being tolerant to your views , understanding that world is much bigger than 'my way or highway' is important...

          1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
            schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            so humanity is far more important and being tolerant to your views ,


            I don't think people here are tolerant
            People need God anyways for hope and faith whether we have proof or not
            Plus, it encourages Christians and People in general- to have some rules to go by......if man is an animal, he needs some guidance.  Resisting that guidance and not teaching out children to love others as Christ loved, to turn the other cheek, Christians are in general a mild, mannered bunch in the whole scheme of things, and anyone who uses the name Christian and is not truly Christ-like is not really a Christian and gives us a bad name.

            Just as you imagine, an atheist can give their kind a bad name by coming in here and insulting the person, not what is being discussed.  I know non believers who are very kind and have morals, so If I were you, I'd think twice --when I say you I mean all atheists here and everywhere-- Just do the right thing

            1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
              schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              If you are unable to do the right thing
              I think you need to find God

              If you read my hub An intellignet and logical man,
              You'd see that modernists will say 2 + 2 are 4
              but 2+2=5 or 2+2=5,000,000 because it's more freeing to say it

              Well, the truth is the truth -and it will set me free!
              You can't deny the truth and satan is the one who tries to blind people to the truth and it's their own fault if they let him do it.

              Milton said he'd rather be a ruler in hell than a slave in Heaven ...
              Well apparently he believed in hell
              What folly

              Christians here , you know this is true
              our purpose in life is solely to save our soul and to try and be as
              Christlike as possible

              Some people cannot know Christ......perhaps they have never suffered or carried their own cross or perhaps they just hate God or the idea of a God that they have to worship.  Whatever the case, they lack the light of Christ and therefore don't and can't shine before men

              Most happy, innocent, sweet hearted people Believe and follow God
              this makes us joyful, seeing the good we can do and that others do, selfless acts of charity- not to benefit ourselves but to benefit others.
              Non believers who have this gift are said to have natural grace.
              The only thing we can do is pray for others and be a good example

              1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
                schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                And we'll never "win" in these forums because satan or the confusion of satan is always viciously attacking the truth

                So, that being said I pray,

                St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.  May God rebuke him we humbly pray, and do thou of prince of the heavenly host, by the divine power of God, cast into hell satan and all the evil spirits who wander thoughout the world seeking the ruin of souls . Amen

                I pray for sinners and I offer my sufferings to help save their souls

                1. earnestshub profile image89
                  earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow! That's enough to make anyone want to be close to the porcelain! lol

                  Pure Megalomania in full flight!

                  1. TheVacationLady profile image69
                    TheVacationLadyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    smile

                2. pisean282311 profile image58
                  pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  wow..so you think only religion can make humans moral?..well kindly read report on most moral countries..top rated are those which have been less religious countries..so one doesnot need a teacher like character with stick in hand to make person just...there are far better ways to do that..i agree such obselete ways of using threats were applicable during days when religion was formed ...but not now...

                  coming to sinners...who is you or me to judge who is sinner..sin is subjective matter...as you believe yourself to be christian why are you entering jesus's shoes..let him judge ...may be the person whom you call sinner might turn up to be more pious than person who claims to be pious...

              2. 0
                china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Have you been drinking ?  I doubt I could ever agree with any of the infantile thinking of your posts but this one does not even make sense.

                And you start with intelligent and logical . . . .

                1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
                  schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  What a sweet thing to say! You are such a sweet man

                2. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
                  schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I better pray for you. You seem lost

                  Dear Lord, I pray for china man that he see the light and accept you as his savior, Amen.

                  1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
                    schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    big_smile

                    1. pisean282311 profile image58
                      pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      also you said we wont win in some thread..I can hope in end humanity wins rather than any religion...religion has been helpful in directing human race to the point it could but now religion is causing more troubles in the world and has become dividing force..jesus,muhammad,ram...well great figures but gandhi , martin luther are the ones who can guide human race further..even if we believe that jesus,muhammad and ram had anything to do with divinity ,gandhi ,martin become far more important since they did what they did without any divine power and connection...

                  2. pisean282311 profile image58
                    pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    atheist too have obligation towards humanity..they are unbiased and being emotionally unattached to religions can view religion in critical perceptive .They have seen crusaders , witch hunting to 9/11..atheist know what harm religion can do...and atheist also know that religion is not just as tall as humanity is..religions come and go ,human race goes on...In larger perceptive religions would evolve into being more tolerant and understand that 'my way or highway' theme is flawed..If you are concerned about human race , pray that religion becomes more inclusive or else we would see more blood shed all in name of god which still remains undefined and matter of interpretation...world is not just christian or hindu or muslim...beneath the layers of religion lies human which is universal...

            2. Beelzedad profile image61
              Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              It looks like you just contradicted yourself and refuted your own argument in favor of gods, rules and guidance. smile

              1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
                schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this
                1. Beelzedad profile image61
                  Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL! Yes, we've heard the "Truth" before from guys like that.

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        ha ha ha, that's funny libby, Smile

    12. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago

      I just thought a little bit of nonsense from the late great Sir John Lennon may be appropriate here.

      'I carn't not believe this incredible fact of truth about
      my very body which has not gained fat since mother
      begat me at childburn. Yea, though I wart through the
      valet of thy shadowy hut I will feed no norman. What
      grate qualmsy hath taken me thus into such a fatty
      hardbuckle.'


      I thought this thread needed that. smile

    13. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago

      Oh Sir John, where are you? smile

    14. Shadesbreath profile image90
      Shadesbreathposted 6 years ago

      This is all the same arguments as always, so got nothing to add at the moment, but I would like to say LOLOLOLOL at the OP responding to a bunch of her own posts on page 7, quoting herself and then responding.  That was good stuff.  Like watching a schizophrenic play scales on the keyboard of their personalities.  Actually gave me an idea for a story character.

      1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        What is OP?

        I wasn't responding to my own posts- I had more ideas I wanted to express and get them in before the vultures came

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It appears that the "vultures" are picking over the carcass of your dead and rotting religion now. I wonder if you appreciate the hand you - and people like aguasilver - had in bringing it down, much like an aggressive strain of cancer eats you from inside?

          The irony is deafening. wink

          1. 0
            klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Oh Mark! You'll come back as a Gospel Choir singer in your next life if you don't stop bugging all the Christians soon! yikes

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              LOL U sure? Not sure that is biblical - sounds like you are one of Satan's minions to me. wink

              1. 0
                klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                As I confirmed on another forum, I work for Satan - she sure looks and acts like him! big_smile

                1. Druid Dude profile image61
                  Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Come to the Dark Side Luke...I am your father!

                  1. 0
                    klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Pappa?  roll

          2. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
            schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            that's funny

          3. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
            schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            it was kind of you to comment on MY thread though, smile
            You pay honor to me!

          4. hanging out profile image62
            hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Mark
            lol
            id say the ones who cause the christians grief are the ones with a cancer eating them from the inside.
            If you can't beat it... what... try to bash it harder... lol.

            Mark 9:42   And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that BELIEVE IN ME, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
              Mark 9:43   And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
              Mark 9:44   Where their WORM DIES NOT, and the fire is not quenched.

            Sounds like your worm has started early lol

    15. Shadesbreath profile image90
      Shadesbreathposted 6 years ago

      OP refers to either "original post" or "original poster."  It's one of those Internet-speak things; you will see it often in forums.

    16. 0
      klarawieckposted 6 years ago

      Let's get one thing straight over here. There are those who believe in God and do not believe in Religion.
      Religion separates and does more harm than good, in my opinion. But that doesn't necessarily mean that anyone who believes in a higher power believes in fairy-tales. The HP atheists do tend to go overboard with their comments. You can base your belief on science and facts, but Science still has many things left to prove and to discover. So, it's better to leave some room for growth and let Science evolve at its own pace. If the day were to arrive when Science had proved every mystery in the world, then there would be no point to our own existence. Scientists will have a job to do as long as the human race exists. But it's arrogant for anyone to think they have all the answers - whether you are a believer or an atheist.

      1. Beelzedad profile image61
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yet, they would have had to glean their beliefs in god from religious scriptures.



        If the "higher powers" are invisible and undetectable, how would they even know they exist? If not, then yes, the belief is equivalent to believing in fairy tales.

         

        On the contrary. Where do you read atheists threatening others with an eternity of brimstone and hellfire? Where do you read atheists calling others names and telling them they need to be saved?



        Science doesn't require beliefs, it requires understanding. Big difference. I would agree science still has many things left to discover, but that doesn't give credit to religions which have discovered nothing at all.



        Sorry Klara, but that makes no sense. Science has nothing to do with whatever purpose or meaning we give our lives, we do that.



        Science is simply a method for understanding the world around us. Scientists themselves don't make claims for having all the answers, those claims are inherent only to religions.  smile

        1. 0
          klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Beely, I just can't do this today. hmm Hope you are having a better day than me. Sometimes, you look back and realize that nothing two people can argue about is important. This is one of those cases. xoxoxo

          1. Beelzedad profile image61
            Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not arguing, I'm Klara-fying. smile

            1. 0
              klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              We can't talk anymore Beely. I was yelled at by the girl with the draggon tattoo for proposing to you online, and for excessive forum flirting. If you've seen the swedish film you know what she's capable of doing. I'm not messing with her. tongue

              1. Beelzedad profile image61
                Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Don't worry about it, just be your adorable self and ignore the dragon tattooed girl. smile

                1. 0
                  klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  So, when do you start gigging?

                  1. Beelzedad profile image61
                    Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    October 10th is the first one. We're doing a wedding for an AA couple, it'll be a dry wedding. I'm working on learning the last set this week. So far, over the last three weeks I've had to get 30 or so songs under my belt. We've had a couple of rehearsals so far and the other members seem quite pleased with my progress. smile

                    1. 0
                      klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Will you be posting the video on youtube? I'd like to hear! At least a track, no?

                    2. 0
                      kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      awesome Beelezdad

                      And when you go with the AA folk just wear a black shirt with white writing tha says

                      http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/product/949105/view/1/type/png/width/190/height/190/aa-is-for-quitters.png

                      lol

                      lol

                      lol

        2. hanging out profile image62
          hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          personally i wouldn't argue anything with them at all, they are everything they call everybody else. IF they want to live in a dismal world of nothing, zeros and ziltch, that is their choice, but i will serve the Lord and all the days of my life will happier than their happiest and their worst day, which i suspect will be death, i will all the more happier than all my happiest happy days combined.

          1. Beelzedad profile image61
            Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, and its clear just how much you take advantage of everything science has provided for you while you spend your days productively serving your god.

            I would wonder just how happy you would be if your subservience was spent in a cave.

            Hypocrisy at it's finest.  smile

    17. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago

      Mark Knowles....

      But - then I would have finally become what I am fighting against - as Jerami keeps telling me I already am. His motives are not pure though. He just wants me to shut up and stop attacking his precarious belief system.
      ===========
      Jerami (me)

         Mark .. I do feel your frustration.  I feel it all too often.
      It is all too easy for people to begin hating something and before they realize it, they have become worse than the thing that they hate.
         
         I sometimes find my self slipping in that direction myself.
      And maybe sometimes I don't catch my self soon enough.

         I think that I have the least accepted philosophy of anyone that I know on here.

          I have challenged your "TRUTH" concerning the existence of A God.  (Exact definition uncertain).

          And I challenge many "Religionists"

         My beliefs lie right smack dab in the middle.

         It is my opinion that most peoples believe systems are based upon 1600 years of misrepresentations of what is actually written in their bibles.
        Mark ... You do preach one truth!!!
        We have been brainwashed.  WE  the people; ...You included.

        It is almost impossible to read any book without having a predisposition or a subconscious conclusion established as to what we are about to read.  Especially when we have already read it once.  We miss key elements that cause us to overlook the message as it was intended.
         
         Unfortunately most, if not all believers have heard thousands of interpretations of scripture for many years before they actually pick up their bibles and read it for themselves.

         By that time all of those interpretations have been embedded into our subconscious minds to such a degree that we already "think" that we know what those words are telling us before we actually read them.

          It is very hard to do!!  But if we can see past our preconceived ideas as to what scripture actually says,  We begin to see  ???????  something other than  what we were taught.

          It has been almost a dozen years that I have been
      de-programing my mind from false interpretations ..  and  I still see something NEW every day that validates my belief in there being a "GOD".   
          I have thousands of little details that by themselves would prove nothing.  BUT  with thousands of little bricks  we can build a mighty house.

          I can not prove that there is a GOD. I don't know everything !!!! That is FOR  SURE
         But I can connect the dots in such a way as to paint a very compelling picture as to what Prophesy actually reveals.

         And with that I do THINK that I have a much better understand, than I once had; of what has been going on throughout history.

         And you aren't as far off as many think.

         But "GOD"  didn't dunit
         Belief in God didn't dunit

         Politics and corrupt leaders have been and are still doing it.

        Corruption and politics on every level ....   Everywhere!
        Through out every level of society.

        There are none that are innocent
         
         You and most all Atheist have rejected God based upon those same misinterpretations that have mislead "Religion"

         Just my opinion.

    18. lambservant profile image93
      lambservantposted 6 years ago

      No one is better than the other. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23 God loves us all whether we believe in Him or not.

      I am not sure that their are a lot of true atheiests out there, and I believe like someone else said that being an athiest does not neccessarily mean you hate God, or Christ, or Chrisitanity. You just don't belive or you are indifferent.

    19. 0
      alberichposted 6 years ago

      Well Said Klara!

      1. 0
        klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I wasn't trying to put him down. I am just having a bad day today and don't have the strength or desire to put on my boxing gloves. It's one of those days. hmm

    20. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago

      http://www.edkrebs.com/herb/petoons15/religio-enhancer.jpg

    21. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago

      http://www.edkrebs.com/herb/petoons26/1158507490613.jpg

     
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