Did "God" break his own laws by sending Jesus to "save " us?

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SilentReedposted 13 years ago
If God created the universe and the laws that govern that universe, is he above those laws ? for the sake of argument that he did sent his only son to "save" us. Isn't he intervening in the natural order of things and saying that we have no free will and must accept Jesus or burn in "Hell"? What do you think,believers?
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  exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your free will, you choose the path you wish to take, it is not hard to follow the rules, respect every one even their choice of what they want to believe,
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You didn't answer the question. Nice job at avoidance.
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  exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just like Adam And Eve if they wanted to stay in the Garden of Eden, they do whatever, Just leave one tree alone,
  If you ever feel the love and power of God, you would want to be the best person you could be, just like being small again, when you received a great gift from your parents, for a short time you wanted to please them, not because you had to, but because you want to. still your choice
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So he sent his son all the way down to tell us if we dont worship him we will burn in Hell?
  
  I think, he needs more psychiatric medication than Prayers!
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  well may be he ran out of idea...HE could have done so easily by making announcement from sky...instead of sending someone...guess god is not good in communications...
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah & not at all techno-friendly. He could even text the messages in our brain but no...He had to had a son in a mortals womb. How lame or should I say how pervert is that?
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  mick45posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure if he wanted to get that message
  across he would have spilt the clouds
  shouted down at us.
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  , is he above those laws ?
  Yes he is. He can change them, repent of them. I can change the rules of my house. Follow my rules or leave.
  
  Isn't he intervening in the natural order of things and saying that we have no free will and must accept Jesus or burn in "Hell"?
  No, you still have free will. Choose any path ya want. To not have free will you wouldn't have the choice.
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What about having alternative paths...Do we have that choice? or is it just 'My way or High way, Pray or Hell" ??
  
  There are plenty of good men, honest men, benevolent men who has done so much for society unconditionally. But they will go to Hell according to your given path because they are atheists. Its not they hate God, its just because they find humanity as more important subject than some irrational believes. They dont worship satan & may be they dont love God either. Because
  Love is not a material object that he can buy for someone. It comes naturally. And it doesnt come for everyone. What about those guys who should be treated well for their good deeds, who doesnt care for the given Choices? What about those guys who would love to see God go away but still live his happy own life? Do we have that Choice? or is it a Free will under condition?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you were that good man, and did all those good deeds, but broke the law, and were caught bang to rights.
  
  Say you killed someone in a fit of pique, or when you were in distress?
  
  Would you expect that the judge to pardon you just because you had always been a good man?
  
  No, of course you would not, you may plead extenuating circumstances, you may have a 1000 character witnesses, but if the law states that you must die for that offence..... the judge has no excuse when you have been found guilty.
  
  So you are executed.
  
  However, God, who you have chosen NOT to obey the in the laws He set out, has found you GUILTY, and deserving of death....
  
  ....Yet He came here to PAY for your crimes, and to offer you the chance to walk away free of condemnation, and all you have to do is accept His pardon.
  
  Now who is being unreasonable?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nobody found anybody guilty of anything, no pardon was needed by your benevolent fairy.
  Humans are the product of what they learn.
  I have been conversing with 5 year old twins all day, don't give me any baloney about sin and your god punishing people.
  
  Just because your fantasy says that to you means nothing to anyone else. My children don't need the fear of your vengeful little gods.
  You worry about it for yourself OK?
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  h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  That is your opinion Earnest. John posted a reply to a forum thread, a great reply I might add.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  NO. It is easy enough to read what John wrote. It is also perfectly clear as to what he is saying.
  
  Condescending foot-rot!
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  h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nice edit, by the way.
  
  We get it that you think only opinions that support your position matter, but the public forum thread is not limited to you. Maybe you can think about that for a bit?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have an opinion. I express it.
  
  My opinions don't condemn others to death like yours do.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How wrong you are Earnest, your opinions, if followed, and if wrong, definitely would condemn those who follow your warped sense of justice to death.
  
  You refute my analogy concerning the law, which law you profess to observe because it is man made, yet offer abuse because you dislike my analogy to Gods law.
  
  How perverse!
  
  Can you not see, that if Christianity is wrong, nobody suffers any consequence, if Gods laws are as powerless as you describe them, everyone walks free.
  
  But if YOUR concepts are wrong, and God is right, then YOU would condemn to death anyone who believed your concepts to be true.
  
  Selah
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nice edit by the way??????
  Say what you mean.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  public forum thread in not limited to any one and same applies to the world...world is much much larger than muslims or christians or hindus or believers of jesus or muhammad or krishna...world is huge...
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God, obviously.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ..
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @aguasilver
  
  So not believing in God is equivalent to Murdering people then?
  
  A Pedophilic abusive pastor is more virtuous than a humanist then?
  
  A rapist priest deserves heaven more than an atheist who fought for American liberation then?
  
  A serial killer who believes in ur God is more worthy of having eternal pleasures than Einstein, Buddha, Aristotle, Gandhi or all other men who didnt believe in your Holy book?
  
  You know what, YOU CAN KEEP THAT HEAVEN FOR YOURSELVES. WE DONT NEED THAT!
  
  ***One should have shoved those laws in arseholes first b4 shoving them in their heads.***
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  well if heaven is booked for people like you mentioned..hell is surely better place to be in
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, only saw this after I posted to your mafia reply.
  
  No Rishy, none of the above will make it to be with God, if they are not repentant of their sins, no more than anyone who is an unrepentant sinner will, no matter whether they espouse belief or not.
  
  The old quote 'Once saved always saved' has one defining issue, and that is in the fact that ONCE you are saved, your spirit will be regenerated, and as such, you would NOT be in those categories you attempt to throw up.
  
  Like Forrest Gump says... "stupid is as stupid does" i.e. if you are a rapist, murderer, predatory child molester etc, you are NOT a Christian, no matter what you call yourself, or what collar you wear.
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do u knw the definition of a Christian? or do I have to teach u that too? It doesnt matter whether u r a rapist or murderer, as long as you believe that Jesus is the Christ - u r a Christian. & this is coming from the Christian definition of Christians
  
  And Im not a big fan of old quotes, most of those has become obsolete & the rest are not even considered as reliable anymore...
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Think I'll stay with the definition Christ made:
  
  Revelation 21:7-9 (Amplified Bible)
  
  He who is victorious shall inherit all these things, and I will be God to him and he shall be My son.
  
  But as for the cowards and the ignoble and the contemptible and the cravenly lacking in courage and the cowardly submissive, and as for the unbelieving and faithless, and as for the depraved and defiled with abominations, and as for murderers and the lewd and adulterous and the practicers of magic arts and the idolaters (those who give supreme devotion to anyone or anything other than God) and all liars (those who knowingly convey untruth by word or deed)--[all of these shall have] their part in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone. This is the second death.
  
  and
  
  John 14:14-16 (Amplified Bible)
  
  [Yes] I will grant [I Myself will do for you] whatever you shall ask in My Name [as [a]presenting all that I AM].
  
  If you [really] love Me, you will keep (obey) My commands.
  
  And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever.
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Only standardized definitions are considered to be accepted. Well, you have the right to take any definitions from any book for personal believes no matter how much irrational that is!
  
  And that is so nice of u asking your father for providing me a comforter...You remind of the those fortunetellers who cant even guarantee their own fortune over next 5 minutes!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...and you have the right to pervert scripture at will, your will, and to make your choices.
  
  But ONLY God has the right to pass judgement, for He created us.
  
  If you ever come to accept that fact..... you could stop feling so aggrieved and angry about things.
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We dont need to pervert it...It already is
  
  I see u cant make judgments by urself & thus someone else, may be a God is required for you to make the judgment. Some kids cant get rid of their imaginary friends ...neither can some Grown ups
  
  I am not angry buddy. Even If Im, then I will better be Angry than Ignorant
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  Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you talking about being a Christian or being 'saved'? These two terms are not synonymous. It's my understanding that being a Christian by definition, i.e believing Jesus is the 'Christ' does not necessarily mean you will be 'saved'. Most Christian teaching I have come across suggests that the belief Jesus is the 'Christ' is a starting point. It's the equivalent of having a door opened in front of you. What you do with that is up to you. You can go in and see what's inside or you can turn and walk away.
  
  In other words, I think Christian teaching suggests that because of free will, someone who believes Jesus is the 'Christ' can still go out do something terrible and can even be 'unrepentant' for it. Because someone is a Christian by definition, doesn't mean they can't act in a way which is contrary to Christian teaching, and doesn't mean they will necessarily be 'saved'. Even people who believe Jesus is 'Christ' still have free will.
  
  Likewise someone who is not a Christian by definition can lead a life which conforms to Christian teaching. Whether such a person will be 'saved' or not is one of the areas within Christianity where I think there is debate between different denominations. But I think in most denominations, being a Christian by definition, i.e. believing Jesus is the 'Christ' is just the beginning of a person's journey of faith, not the end of it. So yes murderers, rapists and killers can all be Christians by definition. But whether they are 'saved' or not is another matter. That depends on other things which can vary depending on denomination, but which ultimately sits in the hands of god. At least, that's my understanding of Christian teaching on the matter.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What do Jesus and Moses say about it? Please quote from both.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus gave us John 3:16-19 to ponder, Mary said nothing and will say nothing until she is raised with all the others dead in Christ.
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  Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  By that I assume you mean what do sacred Christian texts attribute to Jesus and Moses in relation to the matter. What matter? Free will? Definition of a Christian? Being 'saved'? Murderers, rapists and killers being Christians?
  
  Also bear in mind I'm not a Christian apologist. Christians are quite capable of defending Christianity themselves. I'm more interested in clarifying misrepresentations of Christianity from critics who 'know' all about it. Nothing worse than seeing someone criticise what they think something is when it bears no resemblance to what it actually is. But I'd be equally happy clarifying a Christian misrepresentation of atheism.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bible consists of OT and NT; am i right? Jesus was a Jew who believed in OT which existed in his time and he read it. NT was non-existence in his time, written after him when he did not exist in this world.
  
  Som kinldy explain the above two terms to start with. What did Moses and Jesus say about the "Definition of a Christian?
  
  Being 'saved'? "
  
  Also please add one more if you like; did Jesus exist before Moses or not? if not why not?
  
  Thanks
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  Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've discussed my understanding of the definition of a Christian elsewhere on the forum. You're welcome to take a look:
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/51666?p … ost1185810
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/51666?p … ost1187587
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/51666?p … ost1187862
  
  If you want the biblical references for verses which discuss being 'saved', there are many, I believe they are referred to as salvation scriptures. Google 'salvation scripture'.
  
  Edit: I'm not sure where you are in the world and whether your version of Google is censored or not as in Iran which has apparently just blocked access to Google and Gmail to stop people looking at "offensive" material. Not sure if material on Christianity is considered offensive. Anyway I'm sure one of our Christian friends here at HP will be able to offer you a reliable website to look at for salvation scripture. They may even wish to post some for you.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think I asked: what Moses and Jesus said about it? You are surely boud by it ;and you cannot have any different opinion from them.
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  Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You will also have seen me correcting misrepresentations of Islam in the forum. That does not mean I am a Muslim or that I am bound by the tenets of Islam. Likewise if I try to correct what I believe is a misrepresentation of Christianity, that does not mean I am a Christian or that I am bound by the tenets of Christianity. In both cases I am not.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good comment.
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  mick45posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think you believe in mans version of GOD.
  My father use to say that he believed in GOD
  and not man. how do we know what he has
  to say, we are all going by what some religous
  nut says .
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Rishy Rich wrote:
  What about having alternative paths...Do we have that choice? or is it just 'My way or High way, Pray or Hell" ??
  
  There are plenty of good men, honest men, benevolent men who has done so much for society unconditionally. But they will go to Hell according to your given path because they are atheists. Its not they hate God, its just because they find humanity as more important subject than some irrational believes. They dont worship satan & may be they dont love God either. Because
  Love is not a material object that he can buy for someone. It comes naturally. And it doesnt come for everyone. What about those guys who should be treated well for their good deeds, who doesnt care for the given Choices? What about those guys who would love to see God go away but still live his happy own life? Do we have that Choice? or is it a Free will under condition?
  
  Of course you have a choice, in fact you have two choices...
  
  You can choose to spend eternity with God, or without Him, we have already covered this, and the problem is that you want to be your own god and make your choices, and expect that God will want to do YOUR WILL, not His own, and when you keep seeing that this is NOT the way it functions, you get upset.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ideal leader wont break the law even if he owns the system...
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't see where he broke the law. He didn't change free will. We still have free will.
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What if a Mafia comes to you & says, 'Do what I say or I will kill you'.
  
  -Does that sounds like you are having an option?
  
  Now what if another Mafia comes to you & say that, "Worship me or I will burn you forever in Hell." - how would u feel then?
  
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  god seems to be more excited in sending people to hell...i wonder what fun god has in sending people to hell when HE is totally in control of everything...may be god needs a god who can judge HIM...
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So much better! not.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But surely, by your own admission, the Mafia would recognise that you were a good man, with good deeds, and leave you alone, because you are such a good man.
  
  The word of God is a two edged sword, severing spirit from flesh.
  
  You cannot argue ONLY from perspectives that you feel favour you and discredit God, for God has already dealt with ALL of your objections before you were created.
  
  Edit: BTW God does not say He will kill us if we choose not to accept His free gift of eternal salvation, He simply says that we cannot be with Him for eternity if we reject Him in life.
  
  And why would you wish to be, having spent most of your free time lately attacking Him in verbiage?
  
  So as you wish to not be with Him, then He must (being God) create a space where He never goes, and chooses not to control, leaving that place to you and those who reject Him.
  
  That must be a hellish place, no rules except the survival of the loudest, strongest, most brutal, and no way back to God if you decide you were wrong, because you refused Him the right to commune with you.
  
  Just where is God at fault in this scenario?
  
  After all, you are the ones deciding to reject Him!
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You must be kidding, right? I might be wrong but is that a threat in a Polite tone??
  
  The almighty God cant make a SINGLE PEACEFUL PLACE for his subjects who doesnt want to be with him??? Now where is all His MIGHT you guys always BRAG about? So Your Omnipotent God is helpless for those whose wants to make their own way, who wants to live an independent life? Sounds like the Omnipotent has become Impotent
  
  If not, then God must be capable of providing such place but not willing to?? Why not? Is it simply because we refuse to OIL him & want to make our own way independently? Thats a very jealous God u have!!
  
  And u say without him life would be Hellish? So why God Keeps all the Good things & pleasures with Him? Now thats a very selfish act. He should have thought about those who love to live alone!! But again, its your God...It has to be like you!!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Problem is that He has made 'one peaceful place' (without Him being there to trouble you)but it's going to be inhabited by all those who don't want to be with Him, and by your definition, that will include some pretty nasty folk, those who really do not respect folk, in the same rational manner that you do, people who have raped, killed, and generally abused others, and who (by their acts) have separated themselves from God, and as you all do not want, or cannot possibly be with God, you're stuck there alone, for eternity, and nobody will come to 'interfere' with you, whatever you are doing! - so everybody, including all those nasty folk, will be free to exercise their free will and do as they please.... something to look forward to huh!
  
  Come on, be reasonable, you don't want him in your life, you deny He exists, you deny Satan exists, you want a nice peaceful place to exist alone, and He's made one, but you don't want to share it with any nasty folk who (LIKE YOU) have refused to obey God's rules and also do not want to spend eternity with Him.
  
  What do you suggest God does with all those nasty folk you do not want with you?
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Only one wonderful place?
  
  Did he run short of supplies there?
  
  Your all arguments end in creating doubt about His benevolent & Omnipotent nature & it only supports my line which I stated earlier:
  
  ...What if a Mafia comes to you & say that, "Worship me or I will burn you forever in Hell." - I dont see much difference between ur God & that Mafia?
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  mick45posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  if you dont believe in GOD so what who
  cares about your opinion.. Opinions are
  like arseholes everyone got one. And just
  because you think your smart doesn't mean
  you are
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Shhhh! We're waiting for nothing to explode, so it will form a new universe. Be verrry quiet.
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  mick45posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  GOT YA
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That would depend on what he wanted me to do. I would have to choose if I wanted to do what he said or die. Worship the Mafia? Never, he could kill me.
  Everything we do in life is a choice.
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me, the Mafia is just a metaphor. Try replacing the word 'God' in place of Mafia. Phew.
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No joke. I did know that.. People aren't as ignorant as you think. PHEW. Fact remains it is a choice.
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well ur previous reply failed to portray that.
  
  Have u ever realized that ur particular God is no different than a Mafia to other religions?
  
  It only ensures heaven for its own goons & hell for other gangsters...
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  the problem with most religions is that they forget that if there is a god ,HE would be more concerned with how people live their life than whether they call him by one name or other...HE would be more happy if humans are being good and not remembering HIM than people remembering him but being nasty to other faiths and people...sad...
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Guess you missed this bit...
  
  Exodus 20:5-6 (Amplified Bible)
  You shall not bow down yourself to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me, but showing mercy and steadfast love to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments.
  
  and this bit is pretty much a dampener for your philosophy...
  
  Romans 8 4:8(Amplified Bible)
  So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit].
  
  For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and [e]seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
  
  Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].
  
  [That is] because the mind of the flesh [with its carnal thoughts and purposes] is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God's Law; indeed it cannot.
  
  So then those who are living the life of the flesh [catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature] cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to Him.
  
  You see no matter how much you protest that God is a 'big friendly giant' who will let you into His kingdom on your terms...
  
  ....it's just not scriptural, and no matter that you decry scripture, it's not relevant, you are still basing your eternal future on what YOU want to believe, not what God states.
  
  Now THAT is sad.
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  To be frank, I have stopped reading copy- paste craps long time ago...But since u r pasting these things again & again, Im not going to dissapoint you this time ..."Wow these are very judgmental, intellect & rational statements with full of factual evidence that certainly proves ur God is the only True God & we are his son & we need to bow..."
  
  Its funny that the Muslims, Shikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, Shintos, Taoists, Confucians, Animists, Persis, Jains, Sufis & Ahmadis have some different claim. I Congratulate you for Being the Only Right One among all of them. Btw, how do you determine which faith is ryt & which faith is wrong? Let me guess...By faith again! Right?
  
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You need to study History a lot, buddy! The world is much bigger, older & better than your single religion...Your Jesus is a tiny Dot in a huge black circle of human history! You want to live with that single Dot...u r welcome. You want to ignore the rest of the circle...be ignorant!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Never ignored the rest of your circle, explored quite a few on your list, came to Christ last, but then you only ever find what you are looking for in the last place you look.
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Never ignored?!!
  
  Have u even tried anything other than ur Holybook? Im afraid not... "Came to Christ last"...lolz... Im speechless!
  
  You r pretending to b someone u r not...'Been there Done That' - is just not the ryt word for u.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are presumptuous in the extreme, and obviously have not read my hubs, which is fine.
  
  I realise your ignorance.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No.by personal experience and relationship with Christ.
  
  There, a nice one liner you can't corrupt.
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  Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You know what...You dont need God...Just few psychiatric prescription would work fine for you.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You know what, you have no idea what you are talking about!
  
  Whenever cornered you resort to insult and bad spelling.
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  cosetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  i have pondered this for many years also and have been thinking about this lately since people are discussing free will and sin here in the forums.
  
  i do know that in Biblical times, people sacrificed lambs and whatnot as a way to atone for their sins and, as i understood it, that act cleansed them of their sins. Jesus' sacrifice was sort of like his 'taking one for the team' and meant that Man didn't have to present sacrifices to God anymore, since Jesus' sacrifice was like the ultimate one, which was essentially as good as a jillion lamb sacrifices for all eternity. but Man is still a sinner and must still 'go and sin no more'. going to church every Sunday doesn't mean you can go and cheat on your wife on Monday or rob a bank on Tuesday or kick your dog on Wednesday. you still have the free will to live your life as you want but you are expected to be a practitioner of your faith instead of just phoning it in every Sunday.
  
  p.s. i am not a Christian but i bristle every time i see the phrase 'sky fairy'. i mean, that is kind of mean, not to mention provocative.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Cosette,
  
  A well thought out and reasonable reply....
  
  ... I also dislike the term 'sky fairy', but I guess lack of imagination and understanding leads otherwise intelligent folk to resort to name calling when their 'logic' escapes them.
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  cosetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  thank you. and that fairy term is disrespectful any way you slice it.
  
  ;_;
  
  these are good discussions though. they make you think.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If God created the universe and the laws that govern that universe, is he above those laws ?
  He is those laws and the governing and the universe.
  for the sake of argument that he did sent his only son to "save" us. Isn't he intervening in the natural order of things
  Again, Creator is the natural order of all things.
  and saying that we have no free will and must accept Jesus or burn in "Hell"?
  First and foremost, Creator NEVER said for you to accept Jesus or worship him. He did say to accept the Gift of that sacrifice and good news which is everyone's choice issue has been solved and to step into your perfect new Life wholeheartedly, not half-assed. Second, Free Will and Choice are not the same. If you have Free Will, you would not need to choose which one. But because you feel you need to choose, you end up in a concern, panic, state of fear or worse, a complete dismissal of Free Will and your natural existence as a mirror reflection of Creator. To emphasize, 'salvation' was to remove the stumbling block of Choice (which was sin at its root) and restore all human access to their original stasis of perfection.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We don't know the conditions of the very life source that is within each and everyone of us. We know nothing about it.
  We know nothing of its original condition.
  
  We very well could have destroyed it to the point that when the body dies our life source dies with it; I don't know?
  
  Maybe just maybe our faith in a life after death is necessary for us to obtain it? And without that faith ??? Ya get what ever you truly believe in?? If you believe in nothing? That is what ya get. FREE WILL .... And then we blame God cause we get nothing cause we didn't want something.
  
  Yea that is logical. It is somebody else's fault that I didn't want anything.
  
  I'm not saying that is the way that it is. And I'm not saying that it isn't??
  
  Something to think about ???
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  bulletproofballooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you have the free will to think what you want, but your saying (For the arguement) that there is a God who has created all things...Well, God created us for His glory, but that glory and praise wouldn't be real if we had no choice but to worship him or not... So we have the free will to do so, and that makes our worship and relationship with him personal and real. I liked the example of the father making rules for his house, and if you don't follow the rules, your out. But we will always fall short of following God's commandments because we are sinful, that's why Jesus had to come and Die as an atoning sacrifice to cover over our sins. But God isn't going to force his grace upon us. All He asks is for us to accept it and let Him change our lives.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Never been a parent then?
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is ridiculous and I refuse to answer such a question.
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ksha16posted 13 years ago
LoL yeah lol hehe
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
I've seen that the term "I Think" is seldom used in the forums.

I guess that does not sound authoritative enough for our own minds to hear. "I think" that this is but another way of brain washing ourselves into thinking that we are the authority.

We don't have to write it every time, if we could keep it in mind that what we think is just that. No more and no less than us thinking that what we say is true.

No one is going to agree on all things.

I gotta go to work for a while, see ya later.
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1. 60
  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pretty cheeky monkees! God's LAW is for MAN, not for GOD.
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SilentReedposted 13 years ago
So "God" is like a crooked politician who made the laws but doesn't need to follow them because he can change them anytime he fells like it. So "God" made the laws that we must follow BUT he gave us freewill to choose between following Jesus or burn in hell. It's like a mugger who is asking "Your money or your life".
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1. 81
  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I get a picture from biblical claims of a tiny fairy screaming
  
  "WORSHIP ME OR DIE"
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or a really BIG one. God doesn't have to learn to live amongst others. We do. Can ANYONE deny that? The "Laws" you are referring to address issues that beings who have to share the planet (now there's a concept!) have to address in order to "Live as One" (Another impossibility) Had we been able to acheive this, then all the rest, speaking in a christian sense, would have been unnecessary. You got a job. Does or does not the owner of the business conduct himself by a different set of rules than the rules set for employees. No? Then park in his spot.
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2. 71
  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Your money or your life"
  
  Not exactly, with God it's your 'life' that He wants...
  
  Matthew 6:33 (King James Version)
  
  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
  
  You just got it back to front!
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AMBASSADOR BUTLERposted 13 years ago
GOD supreme law is love. GOD sent Jesus to demonstrate this law to mankind. Man had to be shown how to live upon the earth with one another and the creation that surrounds him. GOD is not breaking any law by sending Jesus to save us.If man was created with instinct built into him like the rest of the species on earth, then there would be no need for GOD to send Jesus to save us. Mankind/humanity was created by GOD to have fellowship with him forever and ever. The law of love will give us this relationship with GOD that offer this first to man as far as we are concerned in the events of life on earth. GOD created man to the core of his being the law of love which runs this universe along with peace and free. So in the end the earth will be inhabited forever with GOD as man become the true being that he is to the core of his being.Example: A baby is born. He or she must grow up and learn how to walk , talk, etc... MANKIND has to learn how to love because this is the law of the universe which Jesus said when he was asked what is the greatest law to be kept.Jesus said that it was to love the lord your GOD with all of your heart, soul, and mind; and the second is this: to love your neighbor as yourself. These 2 commandments hang all of the laws of the prophet. It all comes down to this simple message: BE LOVE BE PEACE BE FREE and you will have fellowship with GOD forever because JESUS came and shown man what GOD is like and want you to be with him forever by saving mankind by showing the law of love for man to accept in JESUS CHRIST the law of love and transform man while on the earth to be love peace free. THIS IS THE SALVATION OFFER TO MAN BY GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SPLIT IMAGE OF LOVE. RECEIVE THIS LOVE INTO YOUR LIFE. THANK YOU.
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Dale Nelsonposted 13 years ago
That question assumes that he governs by a set of laws.

If there is any question about it, then your faith seeks the wrong answers.Just my opinion though.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Did "God" break his own laws by sending Jesus to "save " us?

The Creator- God Allah YHWH never breaks his laws. Jesus was never sent as son of god or god; it is total misunderstanding of the Christians.
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1. 60
  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  HEY! Stop tryin' to convert the non-believers! St. Pete says the rosters full and no else is gettin' in!
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you guy's who "Don't want to hear about God's and Sky Fairies. This is a great place to come to NOT talk about GOD'S AND SKY FAIRIES. Wake up in a daze? Either that, or you WANT TO BE CONVINCED. Just an obervation.
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  51
  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't mind if they get convinced of their mistakes.
  reply report

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Did "God" break his own laws by sending Jesus to "save " us?

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Did "God" break his own laws by sending Jesus to "save " us?

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