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Where are the "Jehovah's Witnesses!??!!!!!!!

  1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
    TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago

    Ok. I have become aware of what Jehovah's Witnesses have been teaching concerning Salvation, the Afterlife, & many other things in the bible, and quite frankly I have had enough already!!! I'm sick and tired of "Jehovah's Witnesses" parading themselves around the street like they have some secret knowledge or private interpretation of the Bible!

    Haven't you read 2 PETER Chapter 1:20 that says very clearly "that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation"?

    So "Jehovah's Witnesse's" I challenge you according to 1 PETER 3:15 that states "always be ready to give an answer to everyman that asks you for a reason of the hope that is in you" and again in COLOSSIANS 4:6 where it says, "Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." Are there any Jehovah's Witnesses out there who are capable of engaging in a rational dialogue to explain the various doctrines that they have propagated over the years? Is there anyone out there who is learned enough to step to the plate? Please, I welcome you, I WANT TO HEAR IT!

    Me being aware of how "Jehovah's Witnesses" think already, throughout this dialogue when I use the term "Jehovah's Witnesses", I'm not referring to people who testify of Jesus Christ. I'm referring to a man-made denomination that has anointed itself as the gatekeepers of the knowledge of God. So let's make that part clear now. I'm referring to the man-made denomination and the false, erroneous doctrines they represent. 

    Attention all Jehovah's Witnesses!!!!! Your doctrines are full of holes,inconsistencies and fallacies!

    FALLACY: Faulty reasoning, an error in logic

    Fallacy number (1) Spiritual gifts have passed away and there are no more miracles or supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in 1CORINTHIANS chapter 12.

    My reply to that is: Ok first of all ,according to who??!!! What are you basing that teaching on? Can someone please tell me? Are you basing that just on your experiences or lack thereof? But I thought that we were to walk by faith and not by sight? I thought that we were not supposed to pay attention to the things that are seen but to the things that are not seen? What? Are you saying that just because you haven't seen God move, the way He did as recorded with the early church, that God doesn't do miralces anymore and that the Holy Spirit has stopped manifesting with power and demonstration? How absurd!!!!! Get off your high horse! Could it be that you haven't experienced it because you've been quenching the Spirit of God by your false teaching, namely, that He doesn't work that way anymore? And as a result the Spirit can't move because of your unbelief?

    Could it be that the problem is not with the Holy Spirit but with your beliefs concerning the work of The Holy Spirit? Don't you remember how the bible in Matthew 13:58 said that when Jesus was in Nazareth, "He could do no mighty work there because of their unbelief"? Could it be that because of your unbelief The Holy Spirit is unable to do a mighty work in your Kingdom Halls? Could it be that The Lord is in your Kingdom Hall waiting to do a mighty work amoungst you but you hinder Him through your unbelief?

    Now let us examine this false teaching, that "The Holy Spirit does not operate the way it was demonstrated in the early church", by examining the implied and hidden premise of this false doctrine.

    PREMISE: A proposition from which a conclusion is drawn.

    Premise (1) Whatever I have not personally experienced or witnessed does not or no longer exists.

    Premise (2) I have not personally experienced or witnessed a supernatural demonstration of the Holy Spirit as referenced by Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12.

    Conclusion: Therefore, the supernatural demonstration of the Holy Spirit mentioned by apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12 was for the early church and not for us and has passed away and no longer exists.

    Now here's the problem with this argument. Consider the first premise. Premise (1) Whatever I have not personally experienced or witnessed does not or no longer exists.

    If we profess to be Christian, there are a multitude of precepts that the bible teaches us, that we may not necessarily be able to verify immediately. And because we may not be able to verify them immediately, we still believe them and accept them as truths nevertheless. So why in God's name would you choose to pick one of the most dynamic aspects of the Christian faith, and write them off as obselete? If you're basing it just off the fact that you haven't experienced or witnessed it personally, than you're just like everybody else who says they don't believe in God because they haven't had a personal experience with Him or witnessed a manifestation of His presence. Isn't that hypocritical?

    Now please don't take me for a fool, by assuming that I'm not aware of that cheap little argument that you use when you take 1 Corinthians 14:8-13 completely out of context. And because I'm not a coward, I will address opposing arguments to my claims whether or not anyone mentions them. As Christians, we should be aware to opposing positions of our beliefs and not be close-minded for fear that we aren't grounded enough to stick to our convictions and as a result might be persuaded to believe something different. Don't be cowards, be courageous and expose yourself to opposing opinions! What? Are you not strong enough? Do you doubt yourself? Don't you know that "greater is He that is in us, than he that is in the world?" Don't you know that you are "more than conquerors through God who loves us?" For who can seperate you from the love of God? If God is for us who can be against us?!!

    Cast down therefore these imaginations and every false idea that contradicts the Word of God!

    For we are all children of Abraham through faith in Christ Jesus. And if we belong to Christ then are we Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. Be not deceived my brethren, don't you know that by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in the sight of God. For it is evident that the just shall live by faith! Faith in what? Some may say, and to them I will say my FAITH IN JESUS! justifies me in the sight of God. For eternal life comes by God's grace through faith in The Lord Jesus Christ, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by our works, lest any man should boast in the sight of God.

    And there is only ONE NAME given amoung men whereby we must be saved and that NAME is the NAME OF JESUS!!!! Not Michael, not Jehovah, or any other name that is named. For The Lord Jesus has been given a name above all names that at the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess THAT JESUS IS LORD!

    This is THE GOSPEL that you "Jehovah's Witnesses" need to be preaching, for this is "The Apostle's Doctrine" "The Principle's of The Doctrine of Christ". For there is no other Gospel. If any man, denomination or angel from heaven preach any other Gospel than the Lord Jesus let him be accursed!!! GALATIONS 1:8,9

    1. perfectperception profile image60
      perfectperceptionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I may not be a Jehovah's Witness but I do not condemn others religion.  I realize you want the traffic but.......Do you think its fair to condemn other peoples religion?  Isn't that what they did to the same JESUS you're talking about?  They didn't understand what he was about, what he was teaching, his teaching methods and went as far as to attempt to defame him and ultimately killing him over what they did not understand.  tisk tisk.

      1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
        TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        perfectperception, hello, how are you? Glad to make the acquaintance. Let me clarify a few things. (1) What brings you to the conclusion that I'm condemning their religion?

        Their religion has a multitude of various beliefs concerning God, Jesus, & The Bible. Most of what they teach, I found scriptural reference to support. However, there are some doctrines they teach, that are not supported by scripture, and as a Christian, I want to know where they are getting this stuff from!

        Furthermore, Jesus's critics condemned Him to death: Don't you think that you're being a little melodramatic to compare my "criticism" not "condemnation" of their beliefs to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ?

        (2) What brings you to the conclusion that I opened up this dialogue to draw traffic? If by traffic you mean people being drawn to my hubs, rather than to the subject matter of this particular dialogue, than you are mistaken.

        You make it seem like I was laying on my bed one night and in desperation to draw traffic to my hubs out of the clear blue sky I just had an idea and said "I GOT IT, I KNOW WHAT I'LL DO, I'LL JUST PISS OFF THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! YEAH THAT SHOULD DO THE TRICK"

        I'm so sick and tired of people always drawing the most negative conclusion they can come up with to explain somebody's actions!

        Is that the only possible explaination you could come up with? Is your imagination that limited? Is that the best you can do? I will test you. I know what my reasons are, and the one's you just mentioned aren't it. How about if you try the other way and begin with the assumption that I'm a good and decent person? How about if you ask yourself, " If I were to write what Eric just wrote concerning Jehovah's Witnesses what would my motive be?

        (3) And thirdly, if someone is going to have the audacity to knock on my front door early Saturday morning, than you best believe I'm going to do my homework and have some questions. And I think that's fair, wouldn't you agree?

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          This is the problem with thinking you have an invisible super being telling you stuff into your head. You apparently do not even understand that saying you are sick and tired of people who follow a different religion to you is condemning their religion.

          Easy get out clause is the obvious "revealed knowledge" or "innate wisdom," all the other religionists do. Lets face it - you people have been at war with each other over wot god sed ever since some one sed god seddit.

          The real question is when will we start behaving rationally and treat people who believe in invisible super beings as they deserve to be treated - and accept that this is a mental illness like any other which needs treatment. You need help.

          Great place to start is ask yourself why you are so angry with people who do not believe the same nonsense you do and are spreading a different version. I mean - does it really make sense that you will live forever?

          Good luck. big_smile

          1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
            TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hey! Is that THEE Mr. Knowles? Hahaha Hey what's up bud, haven't heard from you in a while. How's your real estate thing going? Well without any further ado, let me show you where I disagree.

            Who said anything about "revealed knowledge" or "innate wisdom"? What voices are in your head telling you something completely different from what is right here in front of you clear as day?

            It takes no "revealed knowledge" or "innate wisdom" to point out the error in the JW'S doctrine. It's just not even in the bible. PERIOD. And that's my whole point. If ANYONE is going to support a teaching that is supposed to be Biblical at least let it be in the Bible.

            And why do you care any way? Are you a JW? Or are you looking to undo some "alleged" injustice? If so, why don't you do that where it matters most and boycott racism? This quarel doesn't involve you. There are others that do, why don't you go get involved in them? Or, if you want to wait for other oppotunites for us to debate. Good. I'm sure there will be others.

            Shall I start another forum along the lines of "Creation vs Evolution" or "Is the Bible Fact or Fiction"? But of course you and I already know where we both stand on both issues and that neither of us will be persuaded either way, so why waste my time? When I make valid points to you, you don't even acknowledge them, because you're afraid of where they'll lead.

            Regarding your statement about needing treatment. What? You are so disconnected? Are you not aware of a recent pole that indicated that over half America's population believes in a creator? Are you not aware of the fact the some of the most brilliant minds in history believed in a creator? And that the other half, well, they believe in aliens. So what's the inference? That everybody is crazy! Do you really believe that? If everybody is crazy, then that "everybody" includes the Psychiatrist's giving the diagnosis!

            Could it be that some people's ethics you secretly admire? And because you yourself lack the personal strength to do the same, it makes you feel better to just call them crazy. It makes you feel better to at least try to find something wrong with them because at least then you will feel somewhat better in regards to your current condition. Which, it appears that you may be unhappy with.

            Now, there's no real reason why you have to stay in that condition, you choose to. It's a self- imposed prison. I can shout until I'm blue in the face, but at the end of the day, you are the one who has to step out of it: and if you wait too long and you're over there lollygagging around and the end comes before you know what hit you, don't say we didn't try to warn you.

            Are you aware that you and Cagsil disagree? He believes that the soul never dies and you believe that there is no such thing as eternal life? Does that mean he's crazy too? Now why don't you go argue with him and waste his time instead of mine. You don't seek answers, you seek to confuse and scoff.

            smile

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Ah - the McDonalds argument. So what if half of America's population believe in an invisible super being? Half of America's population are also obese, drink lousy beer and like to watch baseball. They also had this idea drummed into them from birth.

              What does this prove? That I should be obese, drink lousy beer and watch baseball?

              I am not wasting your time. You are ill and need treatment. You do not even see how hypocritical you are being. sad

              I was the one that bought up revealed knowledge and innate wisdom. Me.

              1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
                TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, "The McDonalds argument" My point is this, you're saying that whoever believes in God has mental problems? What? Are you a Psychiatrist? Are you qualified to make such an assesment of someones's mental states? And if whoever believes in God is crazy, then that means, the Founding Fathers of the Nation were crazy.

                I'm not using that fact that many people believe God and as a result I have good reason to believe in God. I'm not using that as a reason to justify my belief in God!! Are you kidding me??!! Why do I always have to spell out everything for you Mark???!!!! Are you really that thick-headed, or are you just being redundant?

                Your argument is basically, "Whoever believes in God is crazy." Now if a qualified Psychiatrist was to examine every single person who believes in God, "which by the way is more than half of America" I'm sure he or she would find some crazy people in there without a doubt and I'm also sure that they would find some rational, law abiding, productive individuals in there as well.

                And this finding would prove that a belief in a creator does not make someone crazy. Do you want to know in my opinion what makes designates someone as crazy? Someone going to other countries to have sexual relations with little children!!! Someone decapitating someone! Someone blowing up airplanes full of innocent people!!!!!! Those who possess ideals that would advocate such actions in my opinion, Mr. Knowles, are the people who REALLY need help.

                Why don't you go on their forums and harass them? You cantankerous rascal!

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  So - what you are really saying is that believing in invisible super beings is not crazy, yet the atrocities of which you speak tend to be enacted by people who believe just that. How odd.

                  Yes - it is my considered opinion that people who believe in nonsensical invisible super beings who promise eternal life and get angry at other people who believe a different version of the fairy tale are mentally ill.

                  It does not matter how many people suffer from this delusion - most of their actions seem to be seeking validation from other people who believe the same version as themselves and attacking - as you do - other versions. This is a self-perpetuating, repetitive delusion. It is still an illness that needs treating.

                  Still not understanding the "lots of people believe it therefore it is not a delusion" argument. Especially as you started out this thread attacking people who believe a different delusion to you. So - you do not all share the same belief - do you? wink

                  1. profile image60
                    exorterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Mark ( Yes - it is my considered opinion that people who believe in non- sensical invisible super beings who promise eternal life and get angry at other people who believe a different version of the fairy tale are mentally ill.)

                    I have never heard one Christian say any thing about nonbelievers being mentally ill, the nonbelievers can not see the truth, they do not understand, the Wood even says that you will see it as foolishness. but the ones who can see will know the truth.

                  2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
                    TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Furthermore, whoever believes that NOTHING exploded and became SOMETHING, is truly delusional.

                    Your premise is weak.

                    "Whoever believes in the existence of phenomena that cannot be detected by the senses is delusional" hahahahah, hahahahah you are really blinded by your pride and arrogance.

                    I will school you and put you on my lap and spank some sense into you my dear friend. You truly do Know-LESS and Less everytime I debate with you.

                    Aren't you aware of the fact that our senses only pick up a limited range of frequency. So my dear friend, it is quite absurd to claim that anyone who believes that there are vibrations of energy that exist outside of our range of perception are delusional.

                    No Christian need fear the discoveries of science, for truth manifests on all planes of existence.

        2. bayoulady profile image69
          bayouladyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Your initial  post was very rude. I am a non-denominal protestant Christian , and I have would not EVER "call out" any group be it a denomination,gender,race, or non-believer on a public forum  and rant like you did. SHOW A LITTLE RESPECT.
          Then you ask this poster (perfect perception)where they got the idea ..and I quote:
          "(1) What brings you to the conclusion that I'm condemning their religion? "

          What else could anybody conclude from  your  rude and hurtful  post.?
          It is posts like this that disgust those that watch to see if we walk the walk, not just talk the talk. Makes it really hard on us who want to be respected.You need to study what authentic witnessing really is.

          1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
            TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I understand the way you feel and that is your right to feel the way you do. However, there are a few things that I want to make clear with you.

            For one thing, where do you get the idea that this is witnessing? This hub is by no means an intention to witness to unbelievers. It is to debate with Jehovah's Witnesses concerning some of the false doctrines that they have propagated over the years.

            Now if my approach offends you, that was not my intention. But unless you're a Jehovah's Witness, I don't see why you would get offended.

            Finally, with all due respect my Christian brother, I don't need your permission, to expose false doctrines.

            Regarding your statement, "Walking the walk", you need to get some backbone. What? Do you think that walking in love entails agreeing with everybody no matter what? Do you think that walking in love means keeping the truth to yourself?

            You need to go study my friend about defending the faith. Do you not recall in scripture where Paul admonished Timothy to, "REPROVE, REBUKE, & EXHORT" ?

            That's the problem with some Christian's these days is that everybody wants to be EXHORTED, but nobody wants to be REBUKED, or REPROVED. Do you not recall where the scriptures says that if any man preaches or teaches anything that is contrary to sound doctrine to rebuke them sharply?

            If you don't like my approach that's fine. I can respect that. For I don't seek the approval of men. Your reaction doesn't surprise me anyway. All throughout scripture whenever someone stood up for the Truth, in many cases it was the so-called "believers" who put up the most opposition. So your reaction doesn't surprise me.

            Now don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you a false believer. So let's just make that clear now.

            We all have different functions in the body of Christ. Operate in your function & I will operate in mine. Go study and learn about how John The Baptist dealt with the people in his day. Go study and learn about how the prophet Elijah dealt with people in his day. Perhaps this would give you more understanding.

            God Bless

          2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
            TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            At first glance, it looked like you were going to say, "Your initial post was raw, uncut & stinging!" hahaha

    2. IntimatEvolution profile image79
      IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Goodness.  Why did you waste this on a forum post, instead of making a hub?

      1. A la carte profile image60
        A la carteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        My thoughts exactly smile

      2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
        TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Do you really need me to explain that one for you? It's not rocket science!!!! I want to hear their reasons!!! Simple. Why else would someone start a forum post? Certainly not to sell ice-cream or lucky charms!!

  2. profile image0
    DoorMattnomoreposted 6 years ago

    good luck with all that....

    1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
      TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      haha thanks! : )

      1. profile image0
        DoorMattnomoreposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        big_smile

  3. luvpassion profile image60
    luvpassionposted 6 years ago

    How do you feel about Girl Scouts selling cookies? Don't answer the door swinging now. wink

    1. profile image0
      DoorMattnomoreposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      when was the last time a girl scout told you you were going to die a horrific, terrifying, death, alone, and so are your children, becuse you didnt believe properly?

      1. luvpassion profile image60
        luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        God...is that what they do? (((shudder)))

        1. profile image0
          DoorMattnomoreposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          no, Im sure they dont all. I got kicked out when I was 18....some years ago. I am sure things have changed, but that alone makes me wonder. If they were SOOOOOO certain then, that they had the only right religion,   ...why did it change?

          but I sure have heard it enough times that I still sometimes have pretty sever panic attacks when jets fly over low....

          1. luvpassion profile image60
            luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Never was exposed to them as a child...had an iron gate at  the driveway. I had no idea they could cause such atrocious damage...Sorry DM. smile

            1. profile image0
              DoorMattnomoreposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              well, I feel kinda bad now. I know at least one wonderfull hubber who is a JW and she is NOTHING like the people I knew. sooo maybe they arent all like that. Plus, my parents were way messed up even without the religion...


              but it leads me to believe there really isnt any ONE religion that will save you.

              1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
                TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No religion will save you! Religion comes from the latin word "religare" which literally means "to bind". It is faith in The Lord Jesus that saves. And this faith is not a religion, even though many have turned it into one.

                1. luvpassion profile image60
                  luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Explain that please it's a faith but not a religion... hmm

                  1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
                    TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Good question, I will give you an example. What if I believed that there was life on other planets. And what if I had some personal experience that I personally was unable to demonstrate? Then this would just be my belief. That's all and nothing more. A belief. Now I could attract a large following after having wrote a book about my personal experience, and then formulate a system of ideas that were calculated to reproduce my particular experience, and then give it a name, and make a religion of some sort. But fundamentally it still is simply a belief.

                  2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
                    TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Some beliefs are more impactful than others. If I believe that clouds are made out of breast milk, there are practically no ramifications as a result of this clearly false belief. On the other hand, if I believe that I can fly, the ramifications of this clearly false belief will become evident in a relatively short period of time. So you can see that some beliefs concerning certain things are more important than others. If we were to divide all beliefs into 2 categories, one category being trivial and the other imperative, you can clearly see in which categories the 2 aforementioned beliefs would go.

                  3. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
                    TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Now if my beliefs concerning God are so impactful, that they could determine the quality of my existence in this dimension or any other for that matter, then my belief concerning God would certainly go in the "imperative" section of our little category chart. In addition, it is my opinion, that any beliefs that would go in the "imperative" category should certainly be examined and subjected to the closest of scrutiny; seeing that the possible ramifications are so impactful.

                  4. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Religion is belief with rules and regulations and polices. Faith is how one believes in another person such as your father who you may love and desire to be like him. In the case of Christians, we love Christ Jesus and desire His Spirit, The Holy Spirit, and be like Him. The spirit is life without form.

                2. Jerami profile image73
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  That is what I was goina say.

              2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
                TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yeah I think I know who you're talking about. I think you're talking about SweetiePie. Yeah she is a nice person. My challenge to JW'S is not towards their character but their doctrine. Many good people harbor faulty ideas. Many bad people have good ideas. For all we know, many evil hearted people could have come up with some pretty witty inventions. I have learned to seperate the idea from the person.

                1. SweetiePie profile image84
                  SweetiePieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I assume you are talking about someone besides me.  That is my screename, but I am not a JW.

                  1. earnestshub profile image86
                    earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi SweetiePie! Haven't seen you in a while. I must go take a look at your latest hubs. smile

                  2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
                    TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh. Ok. Yeah, when she said that you were the first person to come to mind. : )

    2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
      TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      hahaha that is funny! Actually those cookies are pretty good though.

  4. Jerami profile image73
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    TheLoanConsultant wrote 
       Haven't you read 2 PETER Chapter 1:20 that says very clearly "that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation"?

    ==========================================================

       The sad part is that 99 %  of the people that are doing it don't even know it.


        Seminaries teach them; ...   Been teaching them from the begining.

    1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
      TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yeap. I agree. That's why at the end of the day, I stick to what The Word of God teaches. If I don't understand a particular verse of scripture, I just put it on the back-burner for another time. I'd rather just leave it alone than misinterpret it, and look llike a fool later.

      1. Jerami profile image73
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You might be amazed?
           People have been interpreting scripture since the beginning.

           I think that the only way to debunk false interpretations are not to pick them off the top of denominational thinking.
        And disprove them.  Not enough time in this lifetime to do that.

           Ya gotta get right down to the bottom of it all.
           Start with one of the earliest prophecy.
           Start with an indisputable fact and build upon that.

          Build slow.  while proceeding forward you will come to an issue that does not fit. You have just stumbled upon one of 10,000 different misinterpretations that you might be blinded by and not even know it???   

           Examine "that" verse that doesn't seem to fit upon your new foundation. See if there is another way to understand that verse so that it fits upon your new foundation.
           
        Remember that you have settled upon an indisputable fact so don't change it.  Change your thinking on that which doesn't fit on the foundation.

          Too many start with their conclusion and attempt to interpret scripture going back in time trying to make the earliest facts conform to the latter conclusions.     
         
          That will never be accurate.

        1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
          TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I see your point. However, my approach here is only scratching the surface. There is alot more that I will get into, but why get into all that, if they never respond? But rest assured I will begin with a truth that is unshakeable and proceed forward from there. For that is the most logical approach, and certainly the most effective.

          Yes, there are many different misinterpretations, but that's not good enough reason to ignore them and remain silent. I'm sure that believers outnumber these misinterpretations, and if each believer debunked these as he or she was so led, then there would be more consistency in the body of Christ.

          Have you ever spoke to someone and felt that they were taking forever to make their point? I'm sure you have, and this is why sometimes it's better to start with your conclusion first and then procede to justify it as you move along. Or else you may find that there are times when people may not have the patience for you to make your point as you are building your case, and you never get to finish or say what you wanted to say.

          Also, it gives you a chance to see where their head is at. Are they inclined to disagree with you no matter what? Or, will they be rational about it and ask, "ok, what brings you to that conclusion?" If it appears that they just have a knee-jerk reaction to disagree with me, then that tells me what kind of mind I'm debating with and let's me know whether or not they can participate in a rational dialogue.

          1. Jerami profile image73
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            It has been my experience that the direct approach didn't work well. 

               "Here eat this thing that you have never had any of before..  You will like it. 
                Tastes kinda bitter at first; BUT by the time you chew it three times and swallow  you will be wanting some more.. ????? 
             
                 Good luck!     

                You are going to have to get them to "want" to wipe the Cool Whip off of what they got, 
                Cause they don't want to see what is under it.

                I don't think that you can  make em want to see.   
                They already know that they don't want to see what is under the Cool Whip.
               Cause they know they won't like what they see.


              Cool Whip tastes pretty good on anything, No matter what it is sitting on.

            1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
              TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hahaha!! Cool Whip is good though isn't it? Have you every tried it on your pancakes with strawberries? Really good you should try it! I hear what your're saying though. One area where I may have an edge when it comes to presenting these types of issues, is the fact that I've been in sales for over 10 years. Even though your direct approach may not have worked well for you, that's not good enough reason to conclude that my direct approach will not work well for me.

              1 Corinthians 7:7 states that every man has his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. Therefore, if I do succeed where you may have failed in the past, this does not necessarily reflect negatively on you.

              You may succeed in an area where I may have failed. We in the body of Christ all bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. We are to capitalize on our strengths and to seek diligently to overcome our weaknesses.

              Do not think for one moment my friend, that I'm doing what I'm doing just on a whim.

              For he gave some Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, & Teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. You use your gift, and I will use mine.

              I hope and pray that your are seeking diligently to perfect your gift. As for me, I seek diligently to perfect mine. As one who will have to give account of his stewardship in the day of judgement.

              1. Jerami profile image73
                Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Well spoken and received.   

                   All the best wishes in your endeavors.

                  I don't know yet what your message is  SO  I anxiously await.

                1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
                  TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks brother for your support. And may you continue to grow in The Lord and in your gifts!

                  1. Jerami profile image73
                    Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Just read one of your hubs for the first time...
                      Will be checking them all out. 
                       Thanks or the the well wishes  and   Back at cha.

  5. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 6 years ago

    I had a JW on the doorstep open with the line "honor and cherish the woman as the weaker vessel".  Not the way to convert a feminist.

    1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
      TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hahahah, yeah very true. Perhaps they should'vd opened with, "women are an example of God at His best"

  6. Jerami profile image73
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    The last dozen times they stopped by my house , I was out side and talked with them.  They usually would be saying ...  "really?" ....   "really?"  ...  really?.  Their handlers never sent them to my house after that.  I guess I'am on "THE LIST"

    1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
      TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      They tend to avoid other Christians who know their bible

  7. Inspirepub profile image80
    Inspirepubposted 6 years ago

    Ah, you don't even need a good knowldge of the Bible - you can get them on internal consistency. It helps when they start out with a strong assertion that there are no grey areas, everything is black or white.

    The conversation goes like this:

    ME: Why is it that we shouldn't celebrate Christmas and birthdays?

    THEY: Because they involve candles, which are pagan symbols for protective spirits. (And evergreen trees, and so on are pagan symbols ...)

    ME: But nobody knows that's what the symbols are for, these days, so what does it matter?

    THEY: Oh, no, we must avoid anything that is in any way tainted by paganism, even if the real meaning has been lost.

    ME: I see. Fair enough, I suppose. That explains why you don't do Christmas and birthday celebrations. But tell me, then, if this is the reason, why do you still do Thursday? It is an entire day dedicated to Thor, and you invoke his name every time you say the word ... then there's Sun Day and Moon Day, Zeus' Day, Woden's Day, Freyr's Day and Saturn's Day,  ... all pagan gods ... why is that OK and candles are not ...?

    THEY: Um, er, ah, *swallow* ... how about we just leave you this reading material ...

    1. Jerami profile image73
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I did do Christmas and called it such, when the kids were young. And didn't know all that stuff then.   
         
          That is a tough subject for me.
          I think that it is OK to celebrate a lot of stuff that isn't necessarily a holy day, as long as we don't call it Holy when It isn't.

         I don't see any thing wrong in making a little one feel special on their birthday. 
         
         I don't think that Jesus would want his birthday celebrated on a pagan gods birthday?
         I don't think that it is the party "itself" that he might object to.   But the intent and the "goings-on" that would objectionable.

         but what do I know?

      1. stilljustwonderin profile image60
        stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Since Jesus looks into our hearts, he knows that our hearts aren't celebrating Pagon's on Christmas.  He knows that he is on our minds and our hearts are full of love.  That's what he wants.  Love for him and one another..
        I don't think he minds our celebrations.  He knows our intentions are good, it's love.

        1. Cagsil profile image59
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The fact that you think consciousness doesn't cease when one is dead is appalling. yikes

          1. stilljustwonderin profile image60
            stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The fact that you think it does, is very sad.  The fact that you want to TRY to destroy some ones faith and love for God, is very appalling and selfish.  It is not going to work.  We know what we have and we aren't going to let any one destroy it.
            Good night.

          2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
            TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The fact that you are here, is even more appalling! I will deal with you later I have to get off here. I will open up a forum entitled "Cagsil" so you can post all your unnecessary rhetoric there. And I'll address all of your useless and highly irrelavent commentary accordingly.

            1. earnestshub profile image86
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              and get horsewhipped like you did last time you came on the religious forums! smile
              Do your best big man! smile

              1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
                TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                hahahahah! Very funny Ernst! Horsewhipped by who! Actually, I don't recall you and I debating about anything. As far as the other guys from your dream team go, they can't see pass their nose. All they do is just bring up the same old tired arguments. Religions cause wars, Christians are delusional, etc., etc., blah, bah, blah, blah. I heard it all before, and it didn't shake me then and hasn't thus far.

      2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
        TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah the Christmas and birthday thing is inconsistent too! And also very annoying! I do see their point about it not being Jesus's birthday and all, but to go so far as to say that whoever celebrates Christmas and celebrates birthdays will be destroyed is absurd and not scriptural at all!

        Their logic is that if you celebrate Christmas and celebrate birthdays then you are a part of this world. And Jesus said that His Kingdom is no part of this world. Therefore if you participate in these worldly affairs, that makes  you a part of this world and if you are a part of this world then you will be destroyed.

        Now here's the problem with that: Yes, Jesus did say that His Kingdom is no part of this world. So the question becomes, "what practices designate one as being wordly?"

        Simple. 1 JOHN 2:15 Says, "Love not the world and neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of The Father is not in him."

        Then verse 16 goes on to tell us what is meant by the phrase "the world" 1JOHN 2:16- "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of The Father, but is of the world. And the world is passing away and the lust thereof: but he who does the will of God will live forever."

        So this verse clarifies for us what designates one as being worldly. (1) The lust of the flesh (2) The lust of the eye (3) The pride of life.  Not buying your children Christmas presents!!!!!!!! Or getting your uncle a birthday cake!!!!!

    2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
      TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      HAHAHAHA!!!! Oh man, you have me rolling over here! That is so funny and true! "Um, er, ah, *swallow* " hahaha classic!

  8. thirdmillenium profile image60
    thirdmilleniumposted 6 years ago

    The Witnesses may be crackpots but the fact is Jesus is not God. But without Jesus, you can forget God which means you may as well be Godless.

    And, Jehova's Witnesses or not, nobody is going to end up in hell, There is NO hell

    1. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
      TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      ok Mr. thirdmillenium, I disagree with you on a few things. (1) That Jesus is not God and (2) That there is no hell.

      Now granted, believing that Jesus is or is not God is not a salvation issue, nor is a belief in hell required for your salvation.

      However there are several verses that bring me to the conclusion that Jesus is God and that hell does exist. If you want to know which verses, then do your own research.

  9. profile image69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    JWs are peaceful people; they should not be hated.

    1. thirdmillenium profile image60
      thirdmilleniumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Do not hate even hateful people

    2. TheLoanConsultant profile image62
      TheLoanConsultantposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      paarsurrey and thirdmillenium: your statements suggest that I was implying that JW'S are violent and that I hate them. I'm not sure if that's the point you're trying to make or not, but if you are trying to make that point, where in the world did you all get that from??!!!!!

 
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