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Is the Devil real? if not

  1. profile image60
    haj3396posted 6 years ago

    whaT's going on in this world? Can man be so hateful?

    1. profile image0
      ankigarg87posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think there is no devil on earth.As we know God is all powerful, how could the devil have rebelled against Him on earth

      1. profile image60
        haj3396posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The Bible states the Devil was once an angel that rebelled again God in heaven and brought his rebellion way to eartth.

        1. Disappearinghead profile image88
          Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Nope I don't think so. Jesus said he was a murderer from the beginning, John said he was a sinner from the beginning. Therefore, if bad to the bone from the begining, then by definition he was never good at any point, so must have been created as an adversary.

          The idea that Satan was once some perfect angel derives from the church's official doctrine about Isaiah 14. It takes this passage literally and ignores the parabolic/symbolic. Put aside everything you've been taught about the devil's origins, and re-read this chapter with fresh eyes. You will see it talks exclusively about the King of Babylon and him only.

          1. LeslieAdrienne profile image82
            LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Actually it is the other way around... it talks about the devil and his manifestation through the King of Babylon. The devil acts the same way through who ever he uses.

            If you look at people who do the same evil you will recognize similar characteristics and mannerisms...that is because the same demonic spirit is influencing them.

            1. Woman Of Courage profile image59
              Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Leslie, I see this type of behavior quite often in the christian forums. All we have to do is mention God, and here comes the demonic spirits.

              1. hanging out profile image61
                hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                hehehehe
                true
                lol
                but we are the evil ones
                amazing isn't it

                1. Woman Of Courage profile image59
                  Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Lol, yes it is.

                  1. LeslieAdrienne profile image82
                    LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    lol You guys are so right... I am glad we know how to forgive and to pray

            2. Disappearinghead profile image88
              Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry Leslie but Isaiah 14 makes no mention of the Devil and your assumption of a demon is spirit influencing the King of Babylon is exactly that, an assumption.

              I can just as easily state that George Dubbya was under demonic influence when he invaded Iraq to take their oil, demoish their entire infrastructure and create such chaos that of the order of a quarter of a million Iraqis were killed in the process and in the years that followed. But of course I'm making wild speculation here just like you.

              1. LeslieAdrienne profile image82
                LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Beg to differ Disappearing,

                verse 12 specifically calls him by name...

                "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

                Lucifer is the devil. The reference is clear. In the rebuke and pronouncement of punishment of the King of Babylon God is also rebuking and describing the devils fall from heaven and future punishment of the devil.

                1. Jerami profile image75
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Isiah 14:28;  In the year that King Ahaz died was this burden. 

                     Ahaz I believe died in 717 BC.  Sounds to me that the before mentioned prophesy was either fulfilled or began its fulfillment at that time.

                     I wouldn't want to speculate who this is referring to as being Lucifer???  But I will say that this sounds as though that "whatever?"  was laid down around 715 BC

                     If that is incorrect?   Help me understand!

        2. dutchman1951 profile image62
          dutchman1951posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          haj....learn before you post;  below is a true and honest explanation of how Lucifer evolved into the Devil in the Bible.

          You repeat a story familiar in many churches, but....it is all free lanced poetic lisence and not facts based on true scripture: Please read all of it, please.... it is Biblical based not speculation, and once more you are posting stuff  that is un-founded religionistic babble.

          What you have is  typical of Sunday School, generalizations by un-qualified teachers, not using founded facts in the real words and translations. Just  a re-written,  translated and changed mess to apease the Division or sect of the Beliefe that the Church follows..

          This is From Biblical Scholar Dennis Bratcher; the research has been proven with others also. Including Clergy. it is  given here below for sake of truth.... Please read it Haj and study more...please do that.


          The name Lucifer has often been understood to be another name for the devil or the satan. This identification has a long history in the church, going back to at least the fourth century. Its origin is actually from a passage in the Old Testament from the book of Isaiah that, to some, speaks of a being cast out of heaven because of pride. Since some people see a reference to the devil being cast out of heaven in the New Testament (Rev 12:9-12; cf. Lk 10:18), they assumed that the Isaiah passage referred to the same thing.

          The passage (NRSV): 14:12

          How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’ 15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. 16 Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, 17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?’

          In the King James translation, verse 12 reads:

          How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

          Here is where we find the name Lucifer. The term Lucifer was popularized in English from this King James translation.  However, the name does not come from the Hebrew or even from the Greek translation (Septuagint), but from the fourth century AD Latin translation of this verse:

          quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes.

          But this is not quite as obvious as it sounds even in Latin. The term Lucifer in fourth century Latin was a name for Venus, especially as the morning star. The Latin word Lucifer is composed of two words:  lux, or in the genitive form used lucis, (meaning "light") and ferre, which means "to bear" or "to bring."  So, the word Lucifer means bearer of light. The same word is used in other places in the Latin Vulgate to translate Hebrew terms that mean "bright," especially associated with the sky:

          Job 11:17:  And your life will be brighter than the noonday; its darkness will be like the morning.

          2 Peter 1:19:  You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

          This reflects how the Latin word Lucifer was used in classic Roman poetry, such as this passage from Virgil (Georgics, III, 324-325):

          Luciferi primo cum sidere frigida rura
          carpamus, dum mane novum, dum gramina canent

          Let us hasten, when first the Morning Star appears,
          To the cool pastures, while the day is new, while the grass is dewy.

          The term also occurs in the plural (luciferum) in Job 38:32 to refer to an astral constellation. Other forms of the word are used in similar ways to refer to light or the stars. This reflects the Greek (Septuagint) translation’s use of heosphoros, "morning star" to translate the Hebrew of Isaiah 14:12.

          There is some debate about the exact origin of the original Hebrew word  in Isaiah 14:12 (helel). The strongest possibility is that it comes from a verbal root that means "to shine brightly," as well as "to offer praise" (where we get the phrase hallelu yah). In any case, the noun form is the Hebrew term for the morning star, in most cases the planet Venus. Both the second century BC Greek translation in the Septuagint, and the fourth century AD Latin translation in the Latin Vulgate understand this to be the meaning of the Hebrew word helel.

          So, how did we get from Venus, the morning star, to Lucifer being associated with the devil, especially since that term is used in positive ways even in the New Testament?

          Well, if we begin with some New Testament passages and incorrectly assume that using the New Testament along with a lot of accumulated tradition is the best way to interpret the Old Testament, then add some of our assumptions, it is not a long trip at all.

          In 2 Corinthians 11:14, Paul writes about false apostles:

          And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

          And in Luke 10:18-19, at the return of the 70 as they comment on their success, Jesus says:

          And he said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.   Behold, I have given you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall hurt you."

          So, without ever stopping to examine either of those passages to see what was being said in them, and what was meant by the references, we could conclude that the devil/the satan is somehow associated with light and the sky.

          If we then add the passage from Revelation 12 about the devil/satan/red dragon/serpent the symbols begin to run together, again before we have done any real study on any of these passages separately to see what each of them is saying. In Revelation 12 the red dragon with seven heads appears in the sky, and his tail sweeps down a third of the stars to earth, and is then later cast down to the earth along with his angels. Of course, at this point, a great many assumptions are introduced into the reading even of the Revelation passage, even though this is obviously extremely figurative language; we just assume what it means.

          By adding these three passages together without regard to context, and read them as if they were all speaking in the same way about the same thing to make the same point, we can conclude that we have here a jigsaw picture of a long ago historical event described in great detail (but of course we have to put the pieces together from various bits scattered through literature written 800 years apart!).

          Then, if we take that assumption about the meaning of all these texts, and the assumption that adding texts together is the way to understand them (a drastic perversion of the "Scripture interprets Scripture" principle!), and bring that back to the Isaiah text, then it is very easy to reach the conclusion that Isaiah is also describing the same event. There are similar metaphors of light, stars, conflict, and being cast down. Earlier translations (KJV) mistakenly took the Hebrew term sheol in verse 15 as "hell" (in Hebrew it is simply the place where the dead go, a metaphor for death, specifically burial; see Sheol, Hell, and the Dead), which is another piece of the puzzle. So of course, since there is no mention of the "devil" or the "satan" in Isaiah, "Lucifer" must be the name Isaiah uses for him! So, Isaiah is talking about the devil being cast out of heaven!

          This is the position that prevailed throughout much of the history of the church until the time of the Reformation and the Enlightenment, when we began asking more direct questions of the biblical text. We also gained more information in new archaeological discoveries of ancient civilizations, including thousands of tablets from Mesopotamia giving us a great deal of information about ancient Mesopotamian and Babylonian religion.

          We learned that Babylonian religion was an astral religion, closely related to Canaanite practices, although more focused on the sun, moon, and stars and their motion than on the immediate cycles of nature as it was in Canaan. The Babylonians worshipped as gods the manifestations of celestial bodies. It is from Babylon that we get the signs of the Zodiac representing the constellations. We now know that the two terms used in the Hebrew text of Isaiah, Helel, morning star, and Shahar, dawn, were Babylonian astral deities (which is reflected in most modern translations).

          Now, if we look at the text of Isaiah 14 in context, and without the assumptions we brought to it from the New Testament, the meaning of the passage becomes more obvious and goes a radically different direction. The book of Isaiah has spent the first chapters denouncing the sins of Israel and its failure to be God’s people. There have also been expectations that God will work in new ways in the life of the nation to help them recover their mission as God’s people. One of those ways would be through a new king to replace the corrupt Ahaz. Because of his pro-Assyrian policies, the nation was teetering upon the brink of catastrophe as Assyria expanded to the West (see Assyrian Dominance).

          Isaiah 13 begins a long section of the book known as "Oracles Against Foreign Nations." This is a standardized format in the prophets for universalizing responsibility to God. Not only Israel, but all nations, were accountable to God and would fall under the same judgment Israel would. As is typical in other prophetic books (Amos, Jeremiah, Ezekiel) not all of these oracles come from the same time period as Isaiah of Jerusalem, but they do follow a similar pattern and serve the same function in the book.

          Isaiah 13 is part of the oracle directed against Babylon, probably from a time after the Exile. In very flowery, poetic, and highly figurative language, Babylon is denounced for her arrogance and lack of concern for other nations as she built her empire. It is interesting that in 13:10, specific mention is made of the failure of the Babylonian gods (constellations, sun, moon) to help them when God calls then to accountability.

          Chapter 14 then begins with the promise of Israel’s return from Babylonian exile, a theme that dominates the middle section of Isaiah (40-55). Part of that return would involve the downfall of the tyrant king of Babylon (v. 4; probably Nebuchadrezzer; for the same language used of a later Babylonian ruler, Belshazzar, see Dan 5:20). In that context, verses 12-21 are a poetic picture of that downfall. Helel, morning star, and Shahar, dawn, then, are references to the Babylonian gods who could not save the king, and are themselves to be cast down. In fact, there is probably a reference here to the habit of ancient Near Eastern kings proclaiming themselves incarnations of the gods; with the fall of the kings, the gods also fell, often physically as the images that represented them were pulled down and destroyed (recall the symbolism of the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's statue in Baghdad).

          So, the Isaiah passage does not connect, either historically or theologically, with the New Testament passages about the devil or the satan. By listening to the Old Testament passage on its own terms within its own context, we discover that Lucifer is not an Old Testament name for the devil or the satan. The passage in Isaiah 14:12-17 is directed at the downfall of the arrogant Babylonian rulers who took Israel into exile. By beginning with the New Testament, by making assumptions not supported by a closer examination of Scripture itself, and by using external theological categories as a lens through which to read Scripture, we may end up badly misreading Isaiah.

          -Dennis Bratcher, Copyright © 2010, Dennis Bratcher, All Rights Reserved
          See Copyright and User Information Notice

          1. Disappearinghead profile image88
            Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Awww. I thought I was reading all your own work here.

          2. hanging out profile image61
            hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Nice post.
            I concur completely.
            and will include... cain was a murderer from the beginning,

        3. Jerami profile image75
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          haj3396

          Bible states the Devil was once an angel that rebelled again God in heaven and brought his rebellion way to earth.
          ==============

            Bible states that Adam and Eve rebelled against God in paradise, (eating from tree of knowledge)) and was kicked out and brought their rebellious ways out of the garden.

             Two different stories  yet ...  same story.

      2. profile image0
        swordofgideonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        do you not know from the prophets that there was war in heaven,and Michael and his angels did fight against that old dragon,which is the devil and his angels also and he prevailed not neither was their found place for him in all of heaven ,and all of heaven did rejoice for the devil was cast out,BUT WOE UNTO THE EARTH FOR THE DEVIL HAS COME UNTO IT,and having great wrath because he knoweth he has but a short time,and he roameth about as a roaring lion searching on whom he may devour,oh children of wisdom hear what the messenger says.amen  shammah shalom

        1. hanging out profile image61
          hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          i noticed you stopped short on the revelation quote:
             Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
             Revelation 12:10   And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
             Revelation 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
          Note the words in bold.. these are all New Testament words, there was no blood of christ in the OT, brethren is a church term, power of his Christ.. all new testament terms.. How could satan have fallen at the beginning of the world if this scripture implies satan was fallen at the death of christ. Someone has a wrong philosophy somewhere. Also do a study on what it is that exactly decieves the whole world. Notice the wording above "called" the devil and satan, the old serpent.. serpent is egypts logo...egypt to us and gods people represent everything we do not want, something as christians we need to be apart from, separated.. A religious false system perhaps? "Call" me what you like, i am what i am...You can notice that these names are in metaphoric context not actual names.
          Also understand that devil and satan cannot be the same person. Devil is catholic translated word for demon which is a persian belief system. Angels do not change into demons, they remain angels. Since angels cannot sin they have never fallen. So satan is alone, but satan is not a fallen angel either.
          oh children of wisdom hear what the messenger says. amen. shammah shalom. lol.

    2. Disappearinghead profile image88
      Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      brotheryochanan has posted some rather interesting hubs on the subject of Sata that challenge the whole Satan doctrine. I'm still trying to get my head around the talking snake, but definitely worth some research.

    3. LeslieAdrienne profile image82
      LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The devil is real and he is working to destroy as much as he can.... as swordofgideon has written from the scriptures, "...woe unto the earth from the devil has come unto it.....

      man moves by either the Spirit of God, or the by the devil and his demons... and since God is love, the mess that we experience is the devil....

      1. hanging out profile image61
        hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        small d on that devil and dont ya love poetic language.

        1. LeslieAdrienne profile image82
          LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          yes indeed hanging....love it

    4. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      yep, the devil is an invention to give an external "blame" for when people do horrible things like kill each other

    5. skyfire profile image72
      skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What human's action has to do with devil ? you need devil to cause havoc on this planet ? and god to do good things ? jeez, even rest of the animals are much more free and less deluded in that case.

      1. profile image0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        exactly

        1. hanging out profile image61
          hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          devil is metaphor for "sins of the flesh"
          hows that

  2. profile image0
    kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago

    yep!  Kinda late, but welcome nonetheless.  No I do not believe in the devil and yes  agree there are pretty hateful, abusive, mean men and women everywhere, my theory has always been they are a product of their upbringing , or trauma related situations, not dealt with.  Sadly jealousy plays a large part when one lashes out. 

    But what I have come to the main conclusion for those driven to hate is simple, they for some reason have to be right.  And will not breath until someone says, oh your right.  This rarely happens and it snowballs until something horrible happens and while he/she are being cuffed you can hear them mutter 'ha, now they'll see I was right??????'

    Just watch some forums

    But think about it, the good and kindness and love, support, true caring people far outweigh the bad

    And for me it's not a religious thing but a way of life each of us were taught and how we coped with life's challenges and how grateful we are for what we have

    cheers

    smile

    1. profile image0
      AMBASSADOR BUTLERposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes. Jesus Christ established the way of life to show humanity how to live on the earth. It is written in the bible: There is a way that seems  right unto a man; but it leads unto destruction. Thank you. Peace to you.

      1. Cagsil profile image59
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        roll

  3. Daniel Carter profile image91
    Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago

    The worst devil of all is the one the resides in each us.

    The rest is highly debatable.

    1. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      My conclusion also.

      1. nasus loops profile image80
        nasus loopsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Every child has the devil in them waiting to get out!! lol

        1. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          mine seems to if he eats food additives - now those can be evil

  4. profile image60
    TRUEVINEOFHOPE@NEposted 6 years ago

    YES, "THE DEVIL, SATAN, THE EVIL ONE, THE FALLEN ANGEL" YES HE'S REAL. HE'S EVERYWHERE, EVERYDAY DOING WHAT HE CAN TO GET AS MANY SOULS AS HE CAN. AN IF YOU THINK THAT HE'S NOT REAL, WELL THEN... HE'S GOT YOU RIGHT WHERE HE WANTS YOU!!! GOD BLESS YOU!

    1. Diane Inside profile image87
      Diane Insideposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly, if you say you don't believe in the devil, you should, cause he believes in you!

    2. Disappearinghead profile image88
      Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "AN IF YOU THINK THAT HE'S NOT REAL, WELL THEN... HE'S GOT YOU RIGHT WHERE HE WANTS YOU!!!" Have you got a scripture for that?

  5. profile image0
    ShaunLindberghposted 6 years ago

    The devil is only real if you accept the bible as an authoritative source. If not, forget about it.

    You can cut a tree down but sawing off one branch at a time or you can save time and simply cut the tree down at the root.

    Examine the bible. If you conclude it is true then believe what it teaches. If not, ignore it.

  6. profile image68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Is the Devil real? if not

    No, it is not real; it is a negative force.

    1. hanging out profile image61
      hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      exactly, so, so many times the word satan and devil are used metaphorically. If there is a devil then wisdom is female and stands crying at the gate and builds here own house.. id like to see it!.

      1. LeslieAdrienne profile image82
        LeslieAdrienneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        wisdom is referred to in the feminine because women have had to be quiet and pray that God fix some of the dumb stuff their husbands have said and done....{read about, Abigail, Nabal and David in 1 Samuel chapter 25}

        The fragility of the male ego causes women to master the use of wisdom if she is to live peaceably or, if they are to live peaceably together for any length of time.

        1. hanging out profile image61
          hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          LOL
          excellent

          make note: check to see if this one is married wink

  7. profile image0
    Rookie70posted 6 years ago

    "I seen satan fall like lightening." - Jesus

    1. hanging out profile image61
      hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      but when jesus called peter satan
      did jesus see peter fall like lightning?
      or was satan being used metaphorically?

      and how about?
      Luke 10:15   And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
      Isaiah 14:13   For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
         Isaiah 14:14   I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
        Isaiah 14:15   Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

      1. profile image0
        Rookie70posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41


        The New Testament describes the devil plenty of timea:

        - the father of lies (John 8:44)
        - the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4)
        - prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2)
        - the adversary (1 Peter 5:8)

        This great dragon--the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world--was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.(Revelation 12:9)

        - the ancient serpent (Revelation 12:9)
        - the accuser of our brethren (Revelation 12:10)

  8. FrankiesGirl6Yr profile image81
    FrankiesGirl6Yrposted 6 years ago

    We will all find out when we die

  9. Manchild1974 profile image61
    Manchild1974posted 6 years ago

    I reckon .Nope he doesn't...

  10. proton66 profile image72
    proton66posted 6 years ago

    If the devil doesn't exist, then great. Maybe he is just an imagination. Maybe, we can ask those that kill, steal or are possesed if the devil is in them. Otherwise, just go with Lindbergh's idea.

  11. HOOWANTSTONO profile image60
    HOOWANTSTONOposted 6 years ago

    Yes he is real unfortunately he makes people believe he is powerful , but he is not, unless you believe his lie then he has power over you.
    Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive  the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

  12. Paul Wingert profile image78
    Paul Wingertposted 6 years ago

    Without the clasic good guy vs. bad guy conflict, the Bible stories would be pretty boring. The religious leaders need something to try to scare everyone.

 
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