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Jesus and Moses to be believed and respected only for academic value

  1. profile image69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Hi friends

    Jesus and Moses are to be believed and respected only as an academic value.The original text of the Bible OT and NT having been lost in the original language; their true meanings also lost in the translations. Muhammad, the last /final or the highest ranking Messenger Prophet of the Creator-God Allah YHWH; has superseded all the previous Prophets including Moses and Jesus.

    Quran- is the only Word revealed that exist in the world in the same pristine text as it was revealed and is inclusive of all the truthful teachings, of all the previous revealed books, that are rational and reasonable.

    Quran gives claims and reasons on all the ethical, moral and spiritual matters that concern the human beings, no external spoon feeding is required. No other Revealed Book has this characteristic.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. BRANDONHEATHTART profile image59
      BRANDONHEATHTARTposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It is good that you are peaceful - but that was shear passive-aggression.  It appeals to many who are in any set of organized beliefs that they are the ones defending what they believe:  appeals, that is, to defend a GOD instead of allowing such reasonable statements as "you reap what you sow" to take their own course...  YHWH or ALLAH, either way - they are mighty to defend their own honor.  But what good is it, if I may ask, for free will if you are supplied all the reasons to believe if you cannot make up your own mind?  The Biblical account, at least, presupposes that people who believe will have to do some thinking, contemplate, and see themselves in terms of what it may or may not mean to be made " 'IN' the image of GOD". 
      Since he is everywhere (omni present) one could interpret this as being a prepositional sort of creation that man is - literally IN the thing we call God, thinking of him while he is guiding his sheep.  Or you can believe that you look like him, IN his image in that way...  IN our image, according to OUR likeness, and fail to see that this refers to THREE in ONE.  His likeness may be interpreted as being multifaceted - reasonable thinking to me - implying that we can think and we can know to an EXTENT.  but reasonable all the more - you would have to think to come to such conclusions as these....but hey, if you can have a fulfilling life being supplied with "all the reasons" to be moral, honest etc., when have you ever had an inspired thought?  to be able to act as the creator, being made "IN" such an image, or let him guide your thinking since you are IN his omnipesence....  Don't you feel stifled? - even shafted?

      Look, Christians and Muslims need to get more personal and people oriented - that is where God is, too, and ALLAH if he is much of a GOD at all...Abraham - father of the faith... DO YOU THINK HE WAS WALKING AROUND SHOUTING FROM HIS QURAN OR BIBLE?  NO, HE FOLLOWED HIS HEART (had no good or bad book then), AND HE KNEW THAT ALL MEN HAVE IT (CONSCIENCE) AND HE LOVED THE GOD IN HIM AND IN OTHERS, EVEN LIED WHEN HE NEEDED TO...AND LIES ARE NECESSARY AT TIMES, SO IS GRACE, A CHRISTIAN IDEOLOGY - MERCY ...CHRISTIAN...LOVE OF THY NEIGHBOR...CHRISTIAN  - I AM SURE THE QURAN HAS SOME OF THE SAME REASONS FOR BEING, YES? 

      not one person in the genesis story would be a bible thumper or a quran swinger because they were not toting their codexed beliefs underarm like pharisees and their phylactories which god hated and criticized...  they had faith in god in them and others.  i love these inspired books, but if they are for scholarly or academic purposes only, then they will never be understood, or of any other value than a grade.  but when judgement day comes, will there be a reason spoken by either ALLAH or YHWH or YESHUA as to why with all of our study we got it wrong?

      and didn't YESHUA tell the pharisees "you search over and over in the scriptures toiling day and night, and still you do not know the things that I say unto you, if you were of your father Abraham you would have known me because he spoke of me."  Scholars, my friend, instead of friends of men and women - SINNERS - are the first to miss the point - WITH OR WITHOUT THEIR own OR THE SUPPLIED REASONS...

      You can put a name on god, but until you understand him as simply BEING in and of HIMSELF, it won't matter what reason you do what you do say what you say or believe what you believe. 

      "FAITH COMES BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD"

      not john q preacher pastor bother priest reverend minister....  and not anyone other than the still small voice in us all that tells us what we already know the reasons for doing - loving!

      i love you man or woman Ahmadi... (I don't know your sex but since you dont have a picture and you say you are a muslim) ...but I bet you are a col guy, err, gal...  and pretty peaceful just like you say! 

      Asalamalakum, and Grace to you from YHWH!!!!  AMEN!


      in the beginning was the LOGOS!

    2. Cagsil profile image61
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Your OP is flawed in your own words.

      "No external spoon feeding is required!"

      The Quran is external spoon feeding in and of itself. Duh! It is outside one's consciousness and conscience.

      And, you are correct- It is NOT required.

      1. BRANDONHEATHTART profile image59
        BRANDONHEATHTARTposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        NO, SIR - if he is OP then we should actually be defending one another - not the other way around.... 

        why defend something that chose to die while in the flesh, and why defend what cannot die out of it?

        the conscience is the voice that verifies this...  and i am, "correct".  YOU TOO?

        1. Cagsil profile image61
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yo dude.

          OP = Opening Post.

          Please learn the terminology.

          Have a great day.

          1. BRANDONHEATHTART profile image59
            BRANDONHEATHTARTposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            sorry -DUDE, the applicable aspect was throwing me, but thanks for clearing it up, i see your point now...and really - sorry, there was a seemingly close parallel to what I had written.... and I am not defending god, rather, questioning a defense of it on the grounds that it is by virtue of its immortal state, indefensible...  but to defend one's exegesis, now - that is another tale altogether...  i now see how my "OP" is questionable, and my OP...

            You have a great day too!

            Cheers

    3. mythbuster profile image85
      mythbusterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Did you forget to qualify this statement, paarsurrey? ie: "In my opinion" ?

      1. profile image69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That is what I sincerely believe with reasons. Is there any other Revealed Book excepting Quran which provides valid arguments for all the claims in it regarding ethical, moral and spiritual issues. Nobody has mentioned of any such book ; so it is more than an opinion, in my opinion. It is almost a reality or fact unless somebody mentions of such a revealed book.

        Anybody please

        1. hanging out profile image59
          hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          BIBLE (it has prophecies)

        2. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          try the Bible the work of God

          1. profile image69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I read the Bible; OT and NT; it is mixed with teachings from Moses and Jesus in their own, though translated and commented. words; nevertheless very good; the rests are only storeys not even correctly described.

            What Bible misses most is the reason and widom part of the teachings and commandments.

            Quran corrects the storys of the Bible ;Quran also mentions the reason and wisdom part of the teachings and makes them reasonable and rational.

            Quran is not against Bible; it renovates Bible and other revealed Word of the religions.

            1. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Paar DO NOT DARE TO PUT THE QURAN AS 'CORRECTING' THE BIBLE THE QURAN IS NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS THE BIBLE NEVER WAS AND NEVER WILL BE. FACT Bible written by Many over a long time . Quran memerised by many over a short time, Quran has no proof, Quran is work of one man only. Old army saying , message sent by word of mouth, to Headquaters ' Send Reinforcements we are going to advance" after passing through hundreds of people the message was ' send three and forepence we are going to a dance' and that is what I belive happened to Mohammeds words ............................ more to come

            2. profile image0
              gooberpyleposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              hey pin head ya don't read it liken itz a regular book like itz n order or sompun geez  like  ma olt teacher used 2 say buy ya bookz send ya 2 school ya try to eat bookz or teacher.

    4. dutchman1951 profile image59
      dutchman1951posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      considering that all of the current academic Islamic scholars are questioning the exsistaance of Muhammed? this is a far stretch to claim.

      The most accurate record of him was 350 years after his death. There are no likenesses of him anywhere, and he wrote nothing down????

      these claims are base-less in truth.

      1. profile image69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You mean nothing happened in those 350 years. Do you really mean it?

        1. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          YES NOTHING HAPPENED PERIOD

    5. profile image0
      gooberpyleposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      hey squzze me if i'm wrong rag head but ain't that the booka how to maime an torcher people who don't by tha crocka cow poop tha mudhammed fuller came up wift one knight whilst hez smokin' some that whacky tobaccky sorronded with all the slave galz he proably stold frome the izrale people whilst he had some dumb foo that he bamboozled in to beliein' in all that howg wash plantin' a car bomb under the wall killin'1000 people all in the name of the moon god hubel aka allah go eat a ham sandwhich and pettle that trash somewhere elze.goober

    6. ajuvr profile image60
      ajuvrposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      jesus or moses: an idiot always loses !

    7. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      paar answer rational questions or you have LOST again  as usual, no answers post closed for LACK OF ANSWERS

  2. profile image69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Quran gives claims and reasons on all the ethical, moral and spiritual matters that concern the human beings ;no other Revealed Book has this characteristic.

    1. Cagsil profile image61
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And yet again, I'll repeat myself. It's NOT required.

    2. profile image0
      Elliott_Tposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not sure how you can claim that the Quran is the only religious book which makes claims and gives reasons for ethical, moral, and spiritual matters. ALL religious books make those assertions. The Bible being the most notable one of course.

      Also, your premise that we should accept Jesus and Moses on an academic basis is flawed; Jesus was either the Son of God, a fraud, or a lunatic. I can't say it any better than CS Lewis:

      "I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." – Mere Christianity, pages 40-41.

      1. profile image0
        gooberpyleposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        by golly i thank uaz rite sidez everun nowz thaynz  like a cue ball the harder u hit a rag head  the more english u get outaum haw haw...i no i no u can catch more fliez wif honey butt u can do the wif s...goober

    3. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      gee paar explain how only the quran ( based on HEARSAY) gives any ethical moral or spritual answere's  to anything . you QUOTE the Quran but GIVE NO PROOF will not answer any QUESTIONS  you just blindly quote the Quran as being the ONLY BOOK OF TRUTH!!!!! Sorry Paar THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH I'll quote Grime's Fairy Tails but not give proof of my statements, as Grime's Fairy Tales are not proof of HOLY MATTERS. I will be wasting my time!!!You quote ETHICAL MORAL AND SPRITIAL answers in the Quran THEN you GIVE NO VERSE TO BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY THat is a week excuse PAAR you can do better , and do not attack Jesus the Bible or Christians in your answer THAT WILL ONLY PROVE YOU ARE NOT PEACEFULL

  3. hanging out profile image59
    hanging outposted 6 years ago

    history of quran or koran:
    Islam holds that the Qur’an was revealed from God to Muhammad ORALLY through the angel Gabriel (Gabriel is one of yahwehs angels) over a period of approximately 23 years, beginning in 610 ad, when he was 40, and concluding in 632 ad, the year of his death. Muslims further believe that the Qur’an was memorized, recited and written down by Muhammad's companions after every revelation dictated by Muhammad. Most of Muhammad's companions—10s of thousands—learned the Qur’an by HEART, repeatedly recited in front of Muhammad for his approval or the approval of other Sahaba Muhammad had approved. The companions also compiled it in written form while Muhammad was alive. Muslim tradition agrees that although the Qur’an was authentically memorized completely by tens of thousands verbally, the Qur’an was still established textually into a single book form shortly AFTER Muhammad's death by order of the first Caliph Abu Bakr suggested by his future successor Umar.
         My question still stands. Why would god de-necessitate the act of his son for the propitiation of sin, 600 yrs later. Jesus last words were it is finished, was he lying? NO. Why would God, yahweh dictate a completely different set of doctrines:
             BIBLE                                  QUR'AN
    Jesus is God in flesh (Col. 2:9)     Jesus is not God (5:17, 75)
    Jesus was crucified (1 Pet. 2:24)     Jesus not Crucified, (4:157)
    Jesus rose from dead (John 2:19-20)     Jesus did not rise from dead
    Jesus was the Son of God (Mark 1:1)     Jesus not Son of God (9:30)
    Holy Spirit, 3rd person in the Godhead   Holy Spirit is the angel   
    (John 14:26; 15:26)                                 Gabriel (2:97; 16:102)
    Salvation by grace through faith                Salvation by sincerity and
    (Eph. 2:8-9).                                        works (3:135; 7:8-9; 21:47)
    Man is fallen, a sinner (Rom. 3:23).         Man is basically good
    Disciples were Christians (Acts 11:26).    Disciples Muslims (5:111)
    Miracles recorded (1 Cor. 15:3-5, etc.)           Qur'an is a miracle.
    Numerous Prophecies (Isaiah 53; Micah 5:2, etc.)  No prophecies.

    Based on these truths about the differences between Quran and bible how is possible that God would contradict himself in such a blatant manner? I am extra appauled that Gabriel was blamed for this atrocity.

    1. alternate poet profile image78
      alternate poetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah yeah yeah - and going to war over it - nice one DUDES !

      1. hanging out profile image59
        hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        ssssh
        ribbit
        nobody has gone to war over it and if that happens it will probably be the united states nuking arabia and once again the people will not have started the war, a government did. Also the trouble maker is not christianity it is islam. Dude you do not want islam taking control of your country. Do some research dude. Check it out dude before dude, you dude, one line again DUDE!
        is that word really still popular?

        stop following me around i don't have a butt that you can sniff dude

        1. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with you Hanging out you hit the nail right on the head if Islam will stop all the killing there might be some hope, but they will not yet will be the 1st to scream when the west has had enough and acts then look out keep up the good work DUDE roll on Destert Storm 4

      2. profile image0
        gooberpyleposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        alternater pot if we want some s... we'll squsse outa yer head.

        1. hanging out profile image59
          hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          roll

    2. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Salvation by grace through faith                Salvation by sincerity and
      (Eph. 2:8-9).                                        works (3:135; 7:8-9; 21:47)

      well quran makes sense as far as this point in concerned...

      1. profile image69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        This is a mythical concept of Paul and the Church; please quote from Jesus; Jesus did not believe in blind faith.

        1. pisean282311 profile image58
          pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          lol ..well ask the person who quoted..

          for me jesus quote or muhammad quote doesnot make much difference..after all those are words from humans with good intentions , nothing wrong with that..if it makes sense in current times,use it ,if not leave it..simple...

        2. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          explain your mythical concept if you will answer any question???

  4. profile image69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Is there any other Revealed Book excepting Quran which provides valid arguments for all the claims in it regarding ethical, moral and spiritual issues?

    1. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      are you asking a question or making a statement?...

      1. profile image69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It is a question.

    2. libby101a profile image60
      libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Revealed books? Nice way to put it considering the qu'ran was revealed to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel (or so he says)! He was a self proclaimed prophet! Prophets of the true God were known and proved by their wondrous miracles! Such as Moses! Moses did many wondrous miracles! Mohammad did zero miracles! Also God never sent an angel to call a true prophet of him. He always came himelf... such as Moses in the burning bush! Yet muhammad claims God sent Gabriel!  No witnesses! Just his tall tales!

      So the Qu'ran is the one true revealed book? I think NOT!

      Jesus is not for "acedemic" value! He is the true, one and only Son of God!

      Thank you and God bless

      1. profile image69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        All prophets are self proclaimed; the Creator -God Allah YHWH choses them and askas/commands them to proclaim; so they proclaim. Moses, Krishna, Buddha , Zoroaster, Jesus all were chosen likewise.

        Do you think there is an election for a Prophet and people put votes in a ballot box; and they are elected?

        1. libby101a profile image60
          libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No I don't think there is an election. I think God choses his prophets as he did Moses! And he gives them the power to do miracles so people will know they are truly a prophet of God and not self proclaiming a lie! The Meccan people didn't believe Muhammad to be a prophet of God.. that why Muhammad forced them by war to believe! A very peaceful man indeed! Doesn't sound like someone called by God To me!

          1. skipper112 profile image61
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I agree Libby God spoke directly to true prophet' s God never sent angels to speak to prophet's I am still waiting to get a answer about any miracle's that Mohammed did. I do not know what Mohammed saw but I do know it was NOT from God' God bless Libby

            1. hanging out profile image59
              hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              sometimes ya don't see anything, like joseph smith.. nobody ever saw his golden tablets.. its made up.. people want power, think they are the end all and be all of wisdom...at the core its gotta be an atheist running the show, they can make up any story they want and people being by nature eager to believe in something.. follow.

              1. Woman Of Courage profile image62
                Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                hanging out, You are absolutely right.

        2. hanging out profile image59
          hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          In olden times it was election of God and miracles did follow them that believe. In Gods church today it is supposed to done by prayer, even, to a certain degree a person comes into a ministry naturally, but even then it is supposed to be confirmed by a group of people through prayer, the elders or ecclesia of a church, institutional body of God.

    3. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      the Bible is it was written by many over time you quote 1  book memerised my many over 1 mans life also if a true prophet why did God not speak directly but only send a angel, cannot be a true prophet.

  5. skipper112 profile image61
    skipper112posted 6 years ago

    paarsuarey as you are not a true Muslim I can not belive you anymore your lies have caught you out

  6. profile image69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Jesus and Moses to be believed and respected only for academic value; for all practical and rational purposes Quran/Islam/Muhammad should be followed.

    1. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I do not think you are right so prove why you think only the Quran /Islam/Mohammed only should be followed.? Give me proof and please tell me why you only insult Jesus and the Holey Bible?
      Is there any other religion you can insult, or is it only Jesus and christians?

      1. profile image69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You are mistaken my friend. I love Jesus and Mary ; I respect them very much; they are mentioned in Quran to be righteous persons.

        I expose the mythical Christian-god-the-son who was carved from this air by Paul and the Church; to confuse the simple minded christians.

        You may differ with me with good reasons if you have any.

        1. libby101a profile image60
          libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You think Paul is a fake yet Muhammad is the biggest fake that walked the Earth. Why don't you look at Muhammad's life! He was a thief, liar, pervert, false prophet, and so many others I don't even care to mention!

          The Qu'ran is nothing but all hearsay! The whole book is based one man's false teachings and lies. It was all for his own personal gain.

          But hey... believe what you want to Paarsurry. My problem with you is where you continue to make Jesus out to be just a prophet and put him in the same category as a false prophet like Muhammad. A know thief and pervert!

          Why don't you stop arguing with Christians about their faith and focus on your own false doctrine? What good does it do you to argue about our religion? It is wrong!

          Now stop being a trouble maker!

        2. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          sorry 'my friend' you insult  Jesus .Mary. Saint Paul, the Church, The Bible, nothing has been expossed in the Quran, NOTHING that you can correct, do you always INSULT people you 'love' guess you are NOT PEACEFULL that might be why ISLAM will NOT LET THE CULT YOU BELONG TO INTO MECCA!!!!! Tell me Paar can you go to Mecca it is required of ALL MUSLIMS........................... you even call the angel Gabrial as a 'LIER'!
          paar explain your 'mythical concerpt'!!!!
          paar explain how Mohammed took all the Christian Disciples's and suddenly they BECOME  become Muslim EXPLAIN THAT ONE!!!!!!????
          Paar explain how the Angel Gabrial become a lier, EXPLAIN how God changed his mind,????
          paar EXPLAIN how the Quran is NOT HEARSAY????
          OR WILL YOU GO AND HIDE FROM THE TRUTH AGAIN PAAR!!!!!!!

  7. skipper112 profile image61
    skipper112posted 6 years ago

    I want to know why Mohammed's wife did not see what mahammed saw she was there and why the so called 'angel' only left when he saw Mohammeds wife's 'private parts' has any body else heard this??

    1. libby101a profile image60
      libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yep! That's how Muhammad and his wife could tell if the spirit was evil or Godly. A sick mind to even test a spirit in that way! Shows what sort of person Muhammad was... a pervert!

      All in the Qu'ran is hearsay...none of it was written by anyone actually with Muhammad.... so where does Paarsurrey think his Qu'ran is fact? Because he thinks it is!

      1. pisean282311 profile image58
        pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        but doesnot this apply to every book which is called holy?..it is because people believe that it is holy...how can we be selective in that?..faith is faith..

        1. libby101a profile image60
          libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Pisean, my point is something different! Paarsurrey goes around putting down the christian faith when there is a lot to be desired in his own religion!

          Everything posted about Jesus, he says is hearsay! My point with this post is that if he believes those are hearsay then he must agree the entire Qu'ran is hearsay because it was all written by others...

          He starts it Pisean. He will not stop putting down christians... my point is he needs to look at his own faith first!

          1. pisean282311 profile image58
            pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            i got your point libby...

  8. skipper112 profile image61
    skipper112posted 6 years ago

    what have you exposed, NOTHING I am still waiting for you to expose someting. You only expose that you can  insult Jesus Christ and quote some mombo jumbo which is in your mind only. What have you EXPOSED NOTHING
    What have you PROVEN NOTHING
    Any body can INSULT with out proof.
    OK try again EXPOSE SOMETHING WITH PROOF!!!!!!
    you say you love Jesus and Mary so why do you insult who you love!!!!
    I try not to INSULT the Quran.
    you go out of your way to INSULT CHRISTIANS and JESUS  WHY DO YOU DO THIS??

    Are you so scared of Jesus?
    Are you so scared of Christians?
    Are you so scared you can only make mindless INSULTS???
    Tell me why does the Quran command you to lie to non belivers to protect Islam?

    Even the Meccans NEVER BELIVED Mohammed you had to have a 'peacefull' WAR to convert them to the Quran?
    Are you now going to have to start a war to try to make Christians and Jews belive the Quran,BECAUSE that war you will NEVER WIN!!!!!!!!!!
    remember every time Islam goes to WAR with the Jews THEY KICK  Islams sorry ass !!!!!!
    over to you try to answer with out insulting Jesus or changing the subject!!!

    Do you have to try and prove Jesus Christ " The Son of God' wrong so the Quran looks RIGHT. If this is the case you are ' just flogging a dead horse' guess you must try , even if you are so wrong,at least the Bible has stood the test of time, the Quran has not stod the test of time, people still argue 'is the quran' the word of God or Just a made up book, The Christians had the Bible the Jews had  the Torah the arabs had NOTHING so was the Quran invented just for the Arabs??????

    1. profile image0
      gooberpyleposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      hez  xposed hez a dumb az ,hez been eatin' 2 many ham sandwiches all that pig meat haz made him smatern he was befor he came to usa,thatz whutz wrong now we'v let 2 many them ratz through the gate now thatz why our countryz goin' 2 hell now,hangum all i say.ol goob!

  9. profile image69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    There is no Revealed Books excepting Quran which provides valid arguments for all the claims/teachings in it regarding ethical, moral and spiritual issues.

    Why not the Bible has this characteristic?

    The Christians have to make the Christian-god-son wise to add some reason into his mouth so often; as though he was not wise and his followers are wiser than him.

    1. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      valid argument?..who validates the validity of the argument?...

      1. libby101a profile image60
        libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Paarsurrey stop the nonsense! You are following the teachings of the Qu'ran to the letter by your attacking Christians! It says in the Qu'ran to lay in wait for Jews and Christians and you are doing that! Muhammad was a warmonger... and you are following his ways!

        I do not see this as a valid argument!

    2. rafken profile image80
      rafkenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Muhammad's followers were wiser than him. At least they could write. I just don't see, that if God wanted his word passed on, that he would pick an illiterate.

  10. profile image69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    I am defending Jesus and Mary against the mythical creeds of Paul and the Church; that has nothing to do with Jesus. Had the Christians followed Jesus, they would have been happy over it.

    I only express what I believe sincerely.

    1. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      paarsurrey, please as you are a peacefull Muslim ( I read your link)and I respect that. But you do yourself a disservice by attacking Saint Paul and the Church.I and 100% of Christians do not and never will accept that Jesus died in Inda, Jesus died on the cross, and it is a Insult to all Christians for you to say he did not.Christians are insulted when you attack the Christian faith. If you are a peacefull person, why do you only attack the Christian FAITH, by doing so it can be precieved that you are not peacefull.
      Why do you not attack the Jewish faith,or Budda or any other eastern Religion  or any other splinter churches there are many to pick from. But you only attack the Christians I might point out that as a Muslim you CANNOT defend Jesus or Mary, Jesus was born of Mary and is the Son of God PERIOD. so if you are a PEACEFULL MUSLIM you will never ATTACK another FAITH like you attack the Christian faith.If you belive what you say sinerely, and you cannot say what you belive without attacking the Christian Faith, please just say nothing. Pratice being peacefull KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. If you cannot then you are NOT peacefull nor honest and if the attacks KEEP up Islam will be attacked, let us be PEACEFULL you say you are peacefull now prove it , just keep your mouth SHUT. If you cannot stop your attacks and lies about the Christian faith you are not peacefull or honorable just a rabble rouseing ill informed Muslim, are you truely PEACEFULL I'll wait and see.Thank you Peacefull Muslim God bless.

      1. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        on a lighter side about the dangers of not writing things down because they get changed old Army saying, a message was sent word of mouth back to headquaters the message sent was ' send renforcement's we are going to advance' after many  hundreds  had repeated this message this is what got to headquaters " send three and forepence we are qoing to a dance' did this happen to Mohammed's words did they get changed, just a thought..............

        1. profile image69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The tradition of Quran committing to memory is regarded with a great respect among Muslims; there is not even a slight change; you may verify it if you like to. God to any mosque of any denominations of Muslims; ask them you want to meet a Hafiz or Qari; take a Quran in Arabic with you; he will read from the memory just what is written, ditto. There are no two versions of Quran; there had never been.

          1. skipper112 profile image61
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            then Quote from the Quran to prove your words are true,I am sick of just your word PROVE YOUR WORDS quote from the Quran page and verse . But you will never do that because you can't!!!Hey anybody can read from memory it is written down in front of them, BUT can you QUOTE from the Quran to prove your words. I know you can't, you run and hide when asked for proof, GIVE ME PAGE AND VERSE if you cannot you lose yet again......................and I retract what I said eirlier you are not PEACEFULL but you are a looser..................... PROVE YOUR WORDS OR SHUTUP

          2. libby101a profile image60
            libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Paarsureey... they didnt' need two versions... it was all good and evil to start with!!! And... they didnt' need two versions because it wasn't written orginally by the Muhammad... it was written from the memory of others! So it's all hearsay to start with! And I already know the answer Paarsurrey, but answer something when exactly was the Qu'ran written in regards to Muhammad's death? How long after his death did the Qu'ran get compiled together into ONE book?

            1. libby101a profile image60
              libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And... one more thing Muhammad, when he voiced his scriptures for the others to memorize... he voiced several versions of each verse! Several... not one!!! Explain that??? Muhammad always changed his verses to suit his purpose!! Explain why someone would need several versions of one verse????

              1. profile image69
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                It never happened; it must be one's pure fanciful thinking.

                There is no constraint on thinking and more so on the fanciful thinking

                1. skipper112 profile image61
                  skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  gee Paar things never happened because YOU say so every body can know something happened but if Paar said it never happened, wow Paar what else can you remove by just saying 'IT NEVER HAPPENED' we wast our time you just say your words and it never happened. Paar how can you be so blessed to have such power just by uttering words you change history.................... I think not  Paar 'IT DID HAPPEN IT IS PART OF HISTORY' you can't change it now ANSWER LIBBY'S QUESTION. then answer mine Explain how the scribes picked the right verse from many, that Mohammed spoke? And do not just HIDE and say 'it never happened' bucause you as a Muslim know it DID HAPPEN, ANSWER PAAR DO NOT HIDE STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU BELIVE. THIS TIME MAKE A STAND

                2. PHDundermybelt profile image60
                  PHDundermybeltposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Mr Paar the fanciful thinking is radiating from your brain cells. Put your towel back on your head so it doesn't blind us all!

                  Your religion is a fabrication of pathetic nonsense spewed from the mouth of a barbaric thug who wanted power. Nothing short of another hitler. Give us all a break and put some tape over your blow hole.

                  1. PHDundermybelt profile image60
                    PHDundermybeltposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Paar go read my post here:

                    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/56212

  11. skipper112 profile image61
    skipper112posted 6 years ago

    And REMEMBER Paar the Quran is HEARSAY and that is a fact. Before you attack THE BIBLE look at the Quran 1st. Do you have the will to examine the Quran memorised by many written after Mohammed's death by many, try and explain, why the Quran is not HEARSAY???? if you do not know what HEARSAY means please look it up

  12. skipper112 profile image61
    skipper112posted 6 years ago

    Question for Paar  'If Mohammeds 'angel' only left after seeing Mohammed's wife's 'private parts' was Mohammed's wife the first 'FLASHER"??????

    1. libby101a profile image60
      libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Good one skipper! It takes some guts to flash an angel they think is of God! It takes a really perverted person to test a spirit in this way!!

      1. profile image0
        gooberpyleposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        how ever said them sandmonkeyz waten preverts anwayz ,everone knowz they'd soon have a little boy az a girl,i knowed a fuller once told hez overair an seen one them old boyz rapin' a monkey under a date palm,why theyz the nasttyiz bunch twaz ever saw...ol goob

        1. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          thank you Libby but remember Mohammeds wife did not see any angel,she only was told a angel was there by Mohammed, Remember Mohammeds wife took hours to calm Mohammed down, aparently Mohammed was a MENTAL MESS after he recieved his 'so called vision." not from God I belive.
          God bless Libby

    2. rafken profile image80
      rafkenposted 6 years ago

      paarsurrey  Let me get this straight. God told gabriel what to say to Muhammid. Muhammid told his followers what Gabriel had said, then they repeated it and wrote it down. Lets assume that Muhammid and the followers got it right. Then Gabriel said, that Jesus was not the son of God. Wasn't it Gabriel that announced to Mary, that she would be the son of God. To believe you, I must believe that Gabriel is a liar. If I believe Gabriel is a liar, then how can I believe anything that is written in the Quran, as they are his words repeated by Muhammid. I'm sorry, but to me the Quran does not make any sense.

      1. PHDundermybelt profile image60
        PHDundermybeltposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I would say you've hit the nail on the head rafken!!!! Except you missed one point! It seems they didn't write it down they merely put it in their heads, under their towels! A couple of hundred years later it was recited and placed in the Koran.

        He was a fake. Full of the brown stuff. He reminds me of the white stuff that develops in the corner of your mouth. Or better yet the thick substance that congests ones lungs.

        1. PHDundermybelt profile image60
          PHDundermybeltposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Paar I love you with the love of God. Please read my life. You will see why I don't believe any of this. My life is a testimony. Read my post in this thread!

          http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/56212

          1. profile image69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend PHDundermybelt

            I have read your above  post.

            You have mentioned God and hereafter in your initial some lines; when your actual experience gets started; it nowhere mentions God. Why?

            In the light of your experience; how would you describe God?

            If a Hindu individual sees such an experience and relates it to Krishna as God; what would you feel about such a Hindu person.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. PHDundermybelt profile image60
              PHDundermybeltposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Did you not read the post I ask you to read? Jesus stood in my hehalf in front of God. He is indeed the son of God. If you want to continue believing in the dead, by all means that is your right. I have seen the mercy and saving grace.

              It is not my concern if a Hindu has a near death experience. I know what happened to me.

              1. libby101a profile image60
                libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                You might as well give it up PHD. He cannot comprehend anything unless it is the Qu'ran. Then he only comprehends the "good" stuff. Whatever you are trying to get him to see, he can't see it because he has blinders on.

                1. skipper112 profile image61
                  skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  G'day Libby you are right again, God bless

              2. profile image69
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I had read your post http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/56212

                Sorry, I could not find the word "Jesus" even once mentioned in your post; nor the sentence "Jesus stood in my hehalf in front of God" in your post in the topic 56212.

                In stead of implying you should have mentioned it clearly.

                1. skipper112 profile image61
                  skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  read it again I saw 'Jesus" in his post

                  1. profile image69
                    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Please quote his sentence.

                    1. skipper112 profile image61
                      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Paar I am still waiting for you to answer my QUESTIONS  I know you can read them, I know you understand them BUT I WANT YOU TO ANSWER THEM, be daring answer any QUESTIONS????????????????????

                    2. skipper112 profile image61
                      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      ......................." I stood before the son of God his name was jesus..................
                      now go find it paar

              3. profile image69
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                If two persons of different faiths narrate some same type of things then if one is a reasonable person one should think over it and find the truth in both.

    3. profile image0
      gooberpyleposted 6 years ago

      well christianz ahundrut pointz islamiz nata.we win!!!! ol goob

    4. profile image60
      skypilot888posted 6 years ago

      I may not agree with paarsurrey, but, I respect a person with deep religious convictions that stands on peace. God bless you my friend!

    5. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago

      Let's try something different, let us see Paar answer just one question, by proof JUST ONE QUESTION .!!!! was the Quran written by Mohammed and based on Mohammeds words.NO IT WAS NOT WE all know it was written many years after Mohammeds death, written on the memory of MANY so Paar it must be hearsay can you agree on that point, if you do not know what 'HEARSAY' means look it up, simple truth the whole Quran is hearsay, what more can I say.! Do you agree Paar???

      Question No2 Why did Mohammed's wife show her 'private parts' to a angel that only Mohammed could see?

      Question No 3. Why can a Muslim only have 4 wives BUT Mohammed can have over 14 wives??

      That will keep you busy Parr  and you must answer without any insults to Jesus Christians or Jews, and you cannot change the subject try to answer if you can,  To be honest I belive you will not answer,remember to be belived you must answer truthfully and quote your sorce............................

      1. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        paar thank you in your blog 'Jesus did not die on the cross' you admit that you know Jesus knew he will be resurrected you are RIGHT to be resurrected first you must be DEAD, at long last you admit Jesus did die on the CROSS thank you so much

        1. libby101a profile image60
          libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          He don't answer any real questions does he skipper? He skips over them! I'd like to see him answer those questions! It might shed some light on the darkness of the  qu'ran! Of course we know this is impossible. Jesus is the light and the Qu'ran lies about him! So light won't touch that darkness!

          1. profile image69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Buddah is the enlightened person ask the Buddhists.

            1. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              paar please deny you said 'you knew Jesus was going to be ressurrected' then you know to be resurected first you must die. Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected.

            2. Fenixfan profile image88
              Fenixfanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Wow I've read this whole 3 week post from start to finish. Paar just made a post 5 minutes ago. Once again you have not attempted to answer any question with proof. I do feel that this topic is a dead one. I wish I had more to add but the others have shown great sources and proof comparing the Koran and bible. If you want to convert people paar , you will have to know more about your own religion.

              What would you think if a Christian came up to you and said, " hey the bible is the only true word of God, because I said so"? You would disregard anything they said because they have not backed their statement up with facts. Everyone here is waiting for you to back up the Koran with facts. The bible was definitely written in earlier times and by highly skilled writers.

              1. profile image69
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Quran mention the facts with reasons which Bible has lost; and the Christians have to add wisdom to the mouth of the christian-god.

                Now we start with Trinity; Jesus never mentioned it.

                Quran corrects it:

                [5:73] Indeed they are disbelievers who say, ‘Surely, Allah is none but the Messiah, son of Mary,’ whereas the Messiah himself said, ‘O children of Israel, worship Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord.’ Surely, whoso associates partners with Allah, him has Allah forbidden Heaven, and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers.
                [5:74] They are surely disbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the third of three;’ there is no God but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.
                [5:75] Will they not then turn to Allah and beg His forgiveness, while Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful?
                [5:76] The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
                [5:77] Say, ‘Will you worship beside Allah that which has no power to do you harm or good?’ And it is Allah Who is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
                [5:78] Say, ‘O People of the Book! exceed not the limits in the matter of your religion unjustly, nor follow the evil inclinations of a people who went astray before and caused many to go astray, and who have strayed away from the right path.’
                [5:79] Those amongst the children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of David, and of Jesus, son of Mary. That was because they disobeyed and used to transgress.
                [5:80] They did not prohibit one another from the iniquity which they committed. Evil indeed was that which they used to do.

                http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=73

                1. libby101a profile image60
                  libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Muhammad's views! All hearsay! None of it truth! All in the Qu'ran is the view of one man claiming to have seen an angel... no evidence, no witnesses, nothing!

                2. skipper112 profile image61
                  skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  do you realy belive this rubish, Paar after all there is NO PROOF of the quran, no outside proof, only a claim that Mohammed saw a 'ANGEL' and Mohammed could not write it down as Mohammed could not read or write. He only got rid of the 'ANGEL' when his wife 'flashed her private's" because Mohammed was so scared it took his wife hours to calm Mohammed down, a 'ANGEL' from God I think not. Then the only way the Quran was written down was many of Mohamed 's followers memorised Mohammeds words to later be written down again by many, and NO ONE made a mistake, do you really accept that???

                  So we have a Quran that was memorised by many, then written down by many, and then you try to make prople belive this was the work of God.

                  I think you have hit the 'nail' on the head Libby , but Paar is so brainwashed I think he must be brain dead, to belive such a load of rubbish, you must be brain DEAD.

                  Then to say you respect Jesus and Mary, only proves you have no idea about what you speek.

                  Paar when will you answer my question!!!!!............ why did you state that you knew Jesus was going to resurrect ,........................... to make such a statement you must belive Jesus died on the Cross......... you always mention Creator -God ( God Christian) Allah ( muslim )  YHWH ( Jewish) so which 'God" do you follow as you always mention 3 Gods?

                  Paar the Quran offers NO PROOF the Quran wants us to belive that it contains proof of the Quran in the Quran and the Quran proves the truth of the Quran OH REALLY PULL THE OTHER LED MY DISBELIVING FRIEND
                  wow the Quran is full of truth because the Quran says so, the Quran was written by many hundreds of scribes and they all said the same thing I DO NOT BELIVE THAT PERIOD

                3. skipper112 profile image61
                  skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  paar sorry not correct

              2. profile image69
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                What skill they showed? They only covered three years of his life; while Jesus lived about 125 years and then died a natural and peaceful death in India. Even for those three years they have contradictions; so they had hardly any good skills of writing. It is for this that many paragraphs have been added later in time.

                1. libby101a profile image60
                  libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Jesus died in his early thirties!

                  Not contradictions.. it's called different view points! Nobody has the same view of something... I dont' care who you are! Take three people and have them all three watch and event... then have them write down what they saw! all three will see things the other one didn't...

                  Paar... look at the Qu'ran and leave the Bible on the shelf! You don't know it!

                  1. skipper112 profile image61
                    skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi Libby exactly my point how can hundreds memorise and at a later time give the same account WORD 4 WORD Inpossiable

    6. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago

      Paar answer one question JUST ONE !!!!!

      Why is it written in the Quran that you can only have 4 wives?

      How is is it possiable for Mohammed to have over 10 wives, surly Mohammed did not follow the word of God, did he Paar, please explain that Paar, how Mommeded can have over 10 wives and you can only have 4 wives?

    7. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago

      THIS IS ONLY A POST WERE PAAR CAN RAVE ON
      NO QUESTIONS ANSWERED
      NO DEBATE
      POST CLOSED

      1. libby101a profile image60
        libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        he he

    8. profile image69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

      Fenixfan wrote:

      The bible was definitely written in earlier times and by highly skilled writers.

      Paarsurrey says:

      What skill they showed? They only covered three years of his life; while Jesus lived about 125 years and then died a natural and peaceful death in India.

      Even for those three years they have contradictions; so they had hardly any good skills of writing. It is for this that many paragraphs have been added later in time.

      1. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        paar you insulting ( so called Muslim) get this though your stupid head Jesus died on the Cross ( no one came down alive)
        evem mainstrean Muslims admit Jesus was on the cross ( but they also insult, they say Allah saved Jesus, ANOTHER PEACEFULL INSULT)
        paar get this through your THICK HEAD, Islam is not peacefull , Christan's ARE  PEACEFULL, Allah even had to go to war with the Meccans because they ( THe Meccans) said Mohammed was not a prophet,so right from the start Islam was starting WAR'S!!
        Paar please do not ever say the writers of the Bible did not have good skill's after  all Mohammed could not read or write, so the Quran is based on the Bible and the torah and many other religious books, based on the memory of Mohammed then based on the memory of hundreds, written after Mohammeds death, by many when their writing's could not be questioned . After all Mohammed was dead, so the Quran could not be questioned by Mohammed. Wake up paar you are on a big loseing streak. I must say paar I do not insult Mohammed, just give my feelings on what men say is the word of Mohammed, but you have been told that No Muslim or Christian or Jew belives Jesus went to India, you utter pure lies about Jesus, you insult me, you insult yourself and prove you can only lie and insult Jesus so paar SHUT YOUR FOUL MOUTH. JESUS NEVER WAS IN INDIA!!!!! so keep your LIES to your self, you do not speak for Muslims christians or Jews, you only speak for a BANNED SECT , you are Not True belivers, and are EVEN BANNED from Mecca.
        And paar as you are not a Muslim , you have no backing from mainstream Islam please do not claim to be Muslim, you are at best A BANNED SECT.

    9. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago

      just a foot note. PHD had a near death experiance, no one can question that it happened to PHD. I myself also have had a near death experiance in 1975 when I lay in a coma packed in ice because my body was burning up with a temp of 39c to 40c for over 5 days, my heart stoped many times my lungs stopped many times by the grace of my Lord Jesus Christ I like PHD survived, I had a group of Catholic Nuns praying for me around the clock.I still carry the scars of massive injuries,what happened to me and what happened to PHD , is between us and Jesus Christ, I know deep im my soul, the power of prayer, of Gods fogiveness, of Gods Mercey, I can say a lot more but it is verry personal between  my self and my saviour Jesus.

      In my entire life I have never heard of a Muslim haveing a 'near death' experiance, makes you think.............................

      1. profile image69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Why should it not be questioned? Any good reason

        1. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          why should it be questioned, it is something that happened between God and PHD, paar somethings happen because of faith,and faith is a belief,also 'near death' experiances appear to only happen to Christians, so you can never understand.
          As I said I have never heard of it happining to a  Muslim , so how can you even begin to understand?

          1. profile image69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If the same experience is narrated by a Hindu and he sees Krishna as a god; won't the Hindu be questioned?

            1. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I do not care about your Hindu, I do not accept Krishna as my God , so it is of no interest to me as a Christian. As a member of a islamic cult ( there  words not mine) why do you worry about a Hindu, I don't worry about a Hindu, why do you.
              He has his belief, it is not my belief so it matters not.

     
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