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“that you may understand”

  1. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Quran stresses on peaceful understanding, discussion and dialogue; the Creator –God Allah YHWH does not force anything on anyone:

    [12:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
    [12:2] Alif Lam Ra. These are verses of the clear Book.
    [12:3] We have revealed it — the Qur’an in Arabic — that you may understand.

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … mp;verse=0

    Human progress depends on understanding a phenomenon and does not depend on doubt and rebellion.

    Quran stresses on reason and wisdom.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Disappearinghead profile image88
      Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think fundamentalist Islamists will agree with you.  If only they did, then Shia and Sunni wouldn't be blowing themselves up in an attempt to kill each other.

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        They don't obey Quran; they don't understand Quran.

        1. 0
          prayersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Then where do their beliefs come from, if not from the Quran?

          1. 68
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think that is a question should be addressed to them.

        2. skipper112 profile image60
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Paar will you tell a Shai or a Sunni that they do not obey the Quran ,, I think not as mainstream Islam has banned your branch of Islam from MECCA!!!!
          And you also know both the Shai and Sunni are dovote Muslims, ask them yourself if you do not belive me ok...................

    2. dutchman1951 profile image61
      dutchman1951posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      sense he forces nothing on any one.....could we say then that the passage that states; Kill all infidels (non-belivers) is just a mear suggestion??????

      doubtfull Parr, very doubtfull.

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Like any other Jihad, it's up for discussion and debate amongst Muslims. We as non-Muslims don't have a say in the matter, unfortunately.  wink

      2. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        What is your doubt? Please express fully; we will discuss it.

      3. skipper112 profile image60
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Good one duchman God bless

    3. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Just to clarify, the definition of reason includes the following:

      The capacity for rational thought, inference or discrimination, the state of having good sense and sound judgment, a justification for something existing or happening.

      Notice that "faith" is not present within that definition? smile

  2. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    The peaceful message of Islam is for enlightenment of the qualities of human beings. This object is achieved if they don’t become violent with one another and don’t kill anybody. They respect one another and resolve their issues with rational reasoning and peaceful discussions and dialogue.

    1. 0
      Home Girlposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      For some reason I really have hard time to understand what are you talking about.

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Please tell me where I am wrong? Maybe I could not express well.

        Thanks

      2. 0
        kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        oh thank goodness cause I keep reading hoping theres a statement or a question and still just keep landing on the typeface

        cheers

        out.

        roll

    2. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Paar QUOTE peacefull verses from the Quran about Christians and Jews, I do not belive what you say I will belive the Quran. So show me were the Quran is peacefull to-wards Christians and Jews??? You tell us to QUOTE the Quran so now you must do the same page and verses ..............

    3. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      paar can I get a copy of your 'peacefull' Quran every one I have read is not peacefull. so where do I buy a 'peacefull Quran'?????

  3. couturepopcafe profile image60
    couturepopcafeposted 6 years ago

    Paarsurrey, I understand you perfectly.  You are an enlightened one.  There are many who are not ready to hear this.  Some who are will hear it and understand it.  The seekers will ask questions.  The believers will live it.  Thank you for sharing it.

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for your appreciation

  4. donotfear profile image91
    donotfearposted 6 years ago

    Paarsurrey: I appreciate your effort to make your belief more understandable to others. It's very insightful for you to do so.


    (Where are our 'belief bashers' on this one?  Oh, yeah.  They only reserve their remarks for the Christianity threads..........)

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for your appreciation

  5. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Quran stresses on reason and wisdom; the root e-q-l for reason has been mentioned about 50 times in Quran.

    Quran is a reason oriented and rational book of systems.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No. Reason and rationality do not include repeating the same irrational nonsense over and over and over. No Reason. No rationality. No system.

      Please at least offer some sort of reason other than repetition of nonsense, Usmanali. sad

      Thank you.

    2. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      To label something that quacks a 'duck' may not necessarily be accurately describing that thing, as some things do quack a lot but are not ducks. smile

  6. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    that you may understand if you are convinced body and soul; no compulsion though

  7. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    I don't have anything to do with these kinds of threads as a rule but I'm stuck at home with an injury so I suppose that's what has got me going here.
    I am a pagan, following the odl ways of my Welsh ancestors and honoring a multiplicity of Gods and Goddesses, my wife is a Witch. According to the Koran a Muslim is required to kill us.
    2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them

    2:193, And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression

    2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you 

    8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them 
    9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem
    So where is this "Peaceful Moslem?"

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well druids are not specifically mentioned in the above verses.

      If you read the text of the verses with the verses in the context; meaning some verses preceding and some verses following , you may know that these verses are not generally meant for those who differ or those who does not believe the message Muhammad brought.

      These verses were meant for the Meccans; who did not allow freedom of religion while Muhammad lived in Mecca or to his followers; they persecuted Muhammad and his followers, restrained/arrested the Muslims in a valley for years; when Muslims migrated to Abyssinia, they sent a delegation to bring them back to punish them. They never listened to any peaceful discussion or dialogue or argument. They tortured and killed Muslims in Mecca. They burnt their houses and belongings.

      When Muhammad and his followers migrated to a place at a far off place from Mecca, they did not rest them there in peace and attacked them frequently.

      These verses are specifically addressed to those Meccans. Muhammad had to defend for his followers’ life and to restore freedom of religion to everybody.

      The verses are, as per even the modern civilized standards, rational and peaceful.

      Not addressed to harm Druids, for sure

      1. libby101a profile image60
        libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That's not true Paarsurrey! Muhammad forced his way into Mecca! The meccan people were trying to worship as they had for many, many years and Muhammad was trying to force the Qu'ran on them! They believed Muhammad to be a false prophet and would not accept it. He came in with war and forced them into his "qu'ran" and religion! He had to also force his followers to go to war with the Meccans because some of them had family there! His reasoning to make them go to war against the Meccans was that Allah told them to!  Do some research Paarsurrey, please??

        That is history!

      2. skipper112 profile image60
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Give my Quotes from the QURAN not your version, page and verse,

    2. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Iantopf guess you need to read Paar's 'peacefull' Quran too, mine says the same thing as yours.......................

  8. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    Do you deny that these verses and similar ones are used by Moslems in India and Pakistan as justification for the killing of the Hindu?

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The reality is that Quran/Islam/Muhammad are peaceful; the radicals are wrong obviously

      1. skipper112 profile image60
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        prove that QUOTE the Quran, page and verse, not what you thing PROVE IT quote the Quran

  9. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    For many people reality depends on which end of the gun you are standing.
    Do you deny the question? Moslems kill Hindus and justify it with these verses.

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That may be the fault of the Muslims; if they do any wrong they have to sffer for it.

      It is no fault of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

      1. iantoPF profile image86
        iantoPFposted 6 years ago in reply to this


        Is it not true that the Ayatollah Khomeini ordered the execution of Salmon Rushdie for writing the book "Satanic Verses" using the above verses from the Koran as justification for the execution of the apostate?

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          That may be the fault of the Muslim cleric; if he did any wrong he sshall have to sffer for it.

          It is no fault of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

          1. libby101a profile image60
            libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            All through the Qu'ran it pushed war and violence, sexual immorality, and changing the law to suit one's own needs or should I say Muhammad's own wants and desires! Muhammad authorized lying to get what he wanted!

            In the Qu'ran we can see Muhammad's true nature, a pirate (thief who raided carivans and villages), a rapist, a true terrorist, a murderer, and the list goes on and on. If you kill a christian or jew you get rewards in heaven! It doesn't matter what  man has done if he kills for Muhammad he is forgiven and goes to heaven! And their heaven.... read the Qu'ran... it's a sexual orgy of men sitting on couches with people waiting on them hand and foot!

            And people wonder why muslims murder and treat women like property. In the qu'ran Muhammad made it look at though hell was mostly women who did not listen to their husbands! This put the fear in women! It makes sense that they would not speak up for themselves! It's clearly written in their so called "Holy book" that hell is made up of women who don't listen to their husbands!

            The Qu'ran is full of hate and discrimination! It takes the OT and twists it... Muhammad was so illiterate that he couldn't make up his own religion, he stole from other religions! But as a thief that is understandable! He even used the Sun God as his basis for "allah". 

            All throughout the Qu'ran Muhammad changed his own oaths and his own laws that he made when he wanted a woman or slave or to go to war... .he simply would say Allah said for him to tell them whatever! Muhammad said that Allah said he could have any woman he wanted. It's right in the Qu'ran!

            If you actually read he Qu'ran it will sicken you! And you will come away wondering how any person can read this entire book and not see the evil within this man! His sole purpose in the Qu'ran was to obtain followers to ensure he could get what he wanted (women, girls, and booty (money and spoils from his wars).

            It does NOT speak of love or faith or forgiveness. It speaks of violence, hate, murder, rape, adultery, theft, and terrorism! What few verses in the qur'ran that speak of any sort of good is very few... and is surrounded by hate and violence!

            I advise anyone to read it just to be informed!

            Muhammad had motives for what he did! He was no Prophet of God! He used his self proclaimed status to get anything he wanted! And he used his fake God "Allah" as his source to get what he wanted! Just read the book and see!

            I read the qu'ran with an open mind and I was blown away! There's no way you can twist these scriptures wrong or to make them appear bad... they are clearly evil no matter how you look at them or read the verses before or after!

            I'm sorry Paarsurrey but it is clearly the fault of Muhammad! He used his people for his own selfish reasons and wrote the Qu'ran to persue his own sickening desires! It is truly sad how people held on to his atrocities! Anyone who speaks out against the lies is killed or tortured! So throughout the years people feared moving forward and away from it!

            How you can say Muhammad was a peaceful prophet after reading the Qu'ran is beyond understanding!

            1. 68
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Did you read the Quran from cover to cover? I don't think so

              1. skipper112 profile image60
                skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                well give QUOTES from the Quran to prove Libby wrong, I know Libby is right, PROVE HER WRONG page and verse of the Quran not what you think but the word of your prophet Mohammed. God bless you Libby your words are true

                1. libby101a profile image60
                  libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks Skipper!!!

                  He can't give verses... because what I said was from the Qu'ran! He will either come back and beat around the bush... or just ignore it. He can't prove the truth wrong!

                  He needs to read the Qu'ran himself instead of copying and pasting off the internet!

                  Usually, if you ask him a question, he will come back and not answer the question but ask you a question!!! He dodges the bullet quite a bit!

                  God bless you too Skipper!

                  I read your hub!!! I hope you get to sail around the world! That sound amazing to sail around and see the beauty of God's creation from the sea!!! Good luck with that!!! If you have faith.. it will happen!!!

                  1. skipper112 profile image60
                    skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Libby thanks for reading my post so far I have one major company that now wants more info, Libby you will see everything with me via 4 cams so you can sail with me on line 24/7 and yes Libby it will happen by the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Hope you left a comment , God bless Libby

                  2. skipper112 profile image60
                    skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    and Libby you foget if Mohammed wants another mans wife he gets the other man to divorce his wife so Mohmmed can marry his wife so he can have sex with her " A PROPHET OF GOD I THINK NOT" and now you are to also belive God now permitted divorce, so God changed his mind just for muslims, think this is a religion of ' flashers' and 'child molesters' and they were the first 'swingers' and they say we in the west are imoral and inmodest heck Mohammed started it with his wife 'flashing to a so called angel' and Mohammed as the worlds first ' swinger.'  after all if Mohammed wanted another mans wife he had her, if  Mohammed wanted a child for sex Mohammed had a child for sex man he must have been 'good' with so many wifes, and his poor followers can only have 4 wives, even if they call them selves Mohammed they stil only Get 4 wives

      2. skipper112 profile image60
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        paar bit hard on the people you killed to know you were wrong and will suffer when you die. Think they want to be alive too.

  10. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    The above and similar verses from the Koran require the execution of the apostate and the Pagan. How can it be the fault of the Moslem if he/she is only following the commandments of their Holy book.?

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Quran does not mention any punishment for the apostate unless one has committed some other crime liable for punishment, otherwise.

      Pagans in general terms are not mentioned to be punished in Quran; infidels of Mecca are mentioned as they were aggressors, under declared war with the Muslims.

      I don't think the Meccans were or had any contact with the Druids and/or pagans; they believed in Allah and followed Abraham; though they also worshiped some idols.

      Muhammad respected everybody

      1. iantoPF profile image86
        iantoPFposted 6 years ago in reply to this


        OK I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this one time and see if you can engage in a mature discussion.
        Prior to Mohammed the middle east, including Mecca, was Hellenic. The worship of the Gods of Greece and Rome were the main religous forces. Zoroastra still held some sway in Persia. The only Abrahamic people were Jews and Christians. There were no Druids in the middle east, they were the "Clergy" for want of a better word, of North West europe. The Hellenic worshippers were the Pagans that Mohammed warred against.
        Do you deny any of this?

        1. libby101a profile image60
          libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          One of many iantoPF. Muhammad attacked one right after another! And the Meccans were one of them! Muhammad was the aggressor! He had his own agenda... booty and women! If they knew he wasn't truly a prophet of God they denied him and he set out war against them... and he would add to the Qu'ran against that gruop of people or religion!

        2. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          For any Hellenic influence at Mecca; or for Meccans being Druids or Hellenic people prior to Muhammad you shall have to prove it from the poetry of Meccans prior to Muhammad the only source they had- the Nomad Arabs of Hijaz . You should also have in mind that Muhammad was a citizen of Mecca, he was born there, and his ancestors were involved in the administration of Mecca; and as such he was ver much a part of them; he was not a foreigner there.

          1. libby101a profile image60
            libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            It does not give him the right to force his religion upon them... but he did and with violence!

          2. skipper112 profile image60
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            QUOTE THE QURAN Paar not what you think the Quran says give me VERSE AND PAGE

          3. skipper112 profile image60
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            do you QUOTE from poetery, The Quran, the HEARSAY of many FOOLED FOLLOWERS ( who memerised Mohammeds words) as a Prophert of GOD ?? who could not read or write ( MUST BE A LOWER CLASS OF PROPHET) as you have stated you 'knew' Jesus  was going to be resurrected, after Jesus died on the Cross, so PAAR who do you Quote from NOW a 'banned' islamic sect!!! or do you QUOTE the true word of GOD!!!!!!!!

      2. skipper112 profile image60
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        paar Mohammed sure did not respect other mens wives most of the time he 'lusted' for other mens wives, sometimes he mad other men divorce their wife so Mohammed could marry and have sex with the other mans wife, that is NOT RESPECTING EVERYBODY!!!!

  11. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    Islamic scholars refer to the time before Mohammed as the "Jahiliya" or the age of ignorance. The Arabic peoples had no written traditions as is common with many early people throughout the world. What we know or appear to know of them comes from the Ahadith, writing associated with Islam and particularly Mohammed outside of the Koran. It is from the Ahadith that we learn of the Nomadic tribes religion. Allah was the chief God. He had three daughters,  Al Lat (Crescent); Al Uzzah (Venus) and Al Manah (Fate) There were hundreds of minor Gods associted with Rivers, Oases, fertile areas and the moon. Mohammed centered a religion around one God, an idea he got from the Jews.
    The only Arab tribe that had any writing were the Arabs of Hijaz but there is no prose surviving even if they had any. All we have is their poetry.
    To sum it up, the Arab tribes were very Pagan with a multiplicity of Gods and Goddesses while the large population centers were influenced by the Hellenic religions of Greece and Rome. This all can be found in the Ahadith.

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You were talking about the pre-Muhammad period and now come to the period 200/250 years after; it is very strange.

      People in Hijaz were nomadic tribes, having no set boundries, they roamed about; but they had rich poetry which was easy to commit to memory and they had a very fine taste for the language.

      Those who collected the Hadith  also set the principle that it would be only acceptable if it is not against Quran; then you should abide by this principle.

      So the best source of those people relating to Muhammad's time is Quran which is still intact both in verbal form passed on to us from generation to generation and in the writing form; both supporting one another.

      For pre-Muhammad period that poetry called Seven Suspended Odes (Saba'a Muallaqat) of pre-Islamic tradition  are there.

  12. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    I don't understand your first paragraph but, whatever!
    Just so we're on the same page here, are you saying that the onlyauthority you accept for anything pre-islam is the Koran?

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You want to discuss pre-Muhammad period; it would be reasonable and rational if you could suggest pre-Muhammad sources; if you cannot then Quran is the earliest source and it should be given preference on others provided one is unbiased and open minded person.

      I have suggested one other source only for the purpose of flexibility; for pre-Muhammad period the poetry called Seven Suspended Odes (Saba'a Muallaqat).

      It does not match the credulity of Quran; nowhere near it; but we can start with. If you are not introduced to it I give here a link:

      http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/hanged/

      Everbody is welcome to join the discussion in search of Truth.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. skipper112 profile image60
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        as paar will not answer you I will answer for paar if it is not in the Quran or paars head you will get no answer PERIOD

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I did answer him; and suggested the alternative source relating the period under discussion. I think he found out and realized that the reality was different from what he thought; so he did not opt for discussion.

  13. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    I prefer to write Hubs not lengthy forum posts, but for you I will make an exception this time.
    W.A.Clouston, presented his book "Arabian Poetry" in 1881. He cites sources from travellers in the Middle East including the Poetry of the Tribes of Hijaz. (Incudentally you may note that the poem of Antar is very much a warrior poem) In speaking of the pre-Mohammed culture of the Arabs he states;

    "The religion of most of the Arabs before the time of Muhammad was rank idolatry. The Sabian religion—worship of the sun, the fixed stars, and the planets, and of angels and lower intelligences—overran the whole nation, although there also existed among them a considerable number of Christians, Jews, and Magians. It was perhaps natural for the Arabs to be led into the worship of the celestial luminaries: a pastoral life requiring continual observation of their motions, in order to forecast changes of the weather, they would be very easily induced to ascribe the blessing of rain to a divine power that resided in them. The constellations, which divide the zodiac into twenty-eight parts, through one of which the moon passes every night, were called anwā’, or the Houses of the Moon. In the Temple of Makka were 360 idols, one for each day of their year; of these the chief were Lat and ‘Uzza, by which they were wont to swear, though such an oath was not considered so binding as the following, from which it will be seen that, besides their imaginary deities, they also believed in a supreme God: "I swear, by Him who rendered the lofty mountains immovable, the Giver of life and death, that I will never betray you, either in word or in deed." If a man broke this oath, the same day he would bark like a dog, and the flesh would fall off his bones."

    Do you deny that the inhabitants of Mecca, prior to Mohammed were Pagans worshipping a multitude of Gods and Goddesses?

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The Quraysh of Mecca- a noble tribe to which Muhammad belonged believed in Allah; they also had idols in the Kaaba:

      As little is known of the history of the Kaaba, there are various opinions regarding its formation and significance.

      The early Arabian population consisted primarily of warring nomadic tribes. When they did converge peacefully, it was usually under the protection of religious practices.[16] Writing in the Encyclopedia of Islam, Wensinck identifies Mecca with a place called Macoraba mentioned by Ptolemy. His text is believed to date from the second century AD, before the foundation of Islam,[17] and described it as a foundation in southern Arabia, built around a sanctuary. The area probably did not start becoming an area of religious pilgrimage until around the year AD 500. It was around then that the Quraysh tribe (into which Muhammad was later born) took control of it, and made an agreement with the local Kinana Bedouins for control.[18] The sanctuary itself, located in a barren valley surrounded by mountains, was probably built at the location of the water source today known as the Zamzam Well, an area of considerable religious significance.

      In her book, Islam: A Short History, Karen Armstrong asserts that the Kaaba was dedicated to Hubal, a Nabatean deity, and contained 360 idols which either represented the days of the year,[19] or were effigies of the Arabian pantheon. Once a year, tribes from all around the Arabian peninsula, whether Christian or pagan, would converge on Mecca to perform the Hajj.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba

      The name of Muhammad's father was Abdu(A)llah or Servant of Allah; he died before the birth Muhammad.

      So; the Arabs claimed to be from the proginey of Ishmael, the elder son of Abraham and they believed in Allah.

      Allah was not invented by Muhammad; instead Allah chose as Messenger Prophet of Him and bestowed him the title of "Seal of the Prophets".

      1. skipper112 profile image60
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Excuse me Paar but Ishmael was Hegars ( servent)  and Abraham's son and was therefore ILLEGITMATE but ISSAC was A Gift from God to ABRAHMAN and his wife Sarah so even that far back you come from the wrong side of the bed sheets, not a good start is it....................................so Islam belives in being ILLEGIMATE is better than being Married, is that what your God ( Allah ) approves of, seems strange for a God.................... please explain that to me Paar?

  14. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    I see you have copied and pasted from Wikipedia. May I suggest that if you cannot afford books you visit a library and read various learned sources.
    You must be aware that the Arabic word for God is AL and that Allah signifies the supreme God. I have already mentioned that the pagan religion of the early Arabs had Allah as the supreme God. This is similar to the Greek Jupiter or the Roman Zeus. The other Gods and Goddesses as well as the various Jinn that inhabited Wells and Sandstorms etc. were worshipped. Mohammed converted the people away from that pantheism into the sole worship of the supreme God declaring he was acting under the instructions of that same Allah.
    Can we agree to that much at least?

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You should first find the sources for the pre-Muhammad period belonging to that very period; otherwise one is leaping into the dark.

      Thanks however

  15. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    You obviously cannot or will not read what I have written nor will you refer to the sources I mention. I see little point in continuing further. So make of it what you will. Quoting one or two words from my posts is a cowardly way to argue.
    Islamic scholars and historians, do your own research, agree on the pagan nature of the pre-mohammed Arabs.
    Where they would disagree with me, libby and most unbiased researchers is that Mohammed forced his new religion on them with the sword. It was convert or die. Thus the Surahs mentioned by me earlier and the way in which they are being used today.

    1. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      iantoPF Paar never reads and if paar reads it goes into the TOO HARD BASKET then Paar answers with a question, or send's a link because paar cannot answer a straight question, both Libby and my self are still waiting for answers from Paar so join the queue my frind  but don't worry paar will NEVER answer ............................

  16. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Human progress depends on understanding a phenomenon and does not depend on doubt and rebellion.

    Quran stresses on reason and wisdom.

    1. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      quote from the Quran page and verse were the Quran stresses reason and wisdom to wards Christians Jews or unbelivers, you talk a lot now show were it is written in the Quran???????

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this


        [2:243] كَذٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللّٰهُ لَـکُمْ اٰيٰتِهٖ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُوْن‏ 
           
        [2:243] Thus does Allah make His commandments clear to you that you may understand.* 

        http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=242

        * with reason

        1. skipper112 profile image60
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          now Allah has Commandments gee how many did he copy from the Bible??

        2. libby101a profile image60
          libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          He couldnt read or write so he didn't copy the "real" commandments that God sent down to Moses for the people. Muhammad made his up as he went along. Of course the flow of the Qu'ran was war and battle so the commandments are not based on the God of the Bible as were the commandment of Moses. Of course the Qu'ran says the OT was true and accurate yet it is as different from the OT of the bible as night and day. God is the same always yet in Qu'ran his commandments changed drastically. This is not the same God of Abraham! It's a made up God from Muhammad to serve his own lusts.

          Paar peace unto you! Stop the insanity. Leave it alone! Read your Qu'ran and stop putting Jesus down.

  17. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    [6:33] And worldly life is nothing but a sport and a pastime. And surely the abode of the Hereafter is better for those who are righteous. Will you not then understand?

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=32

    1. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      thank you paar for admitting you knew that Jesus was going to be resurrected I now know you accept that fact to be resurrected first you must be dead so now you have admitted Jesus did die on the cross so he could be resurrected. thank God you have seen the true faith

    2. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Paar now you belive you knew Jesus was going to resurrest after Jesus died on the CROSS, now you can not be a Muslim

  18. 0
    kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago

    Just curious, from all the many many religions who's the best?  Smartest?  Oldest?  Biggest?  Strongest?

    MAY I JUST QUIETLY SHOUT YOU NEED NOT BE RIGHT AS THERE IS NO RIGHT EXCEPT I AM RIGHT

    RIGHT NOW BY SAYING

    LET EVERYONE CHERISH WHICH EACH BELIEVES IN AND STOP THROWING YOUR UNHOLY PARTS AROUND CAUSE FRANKLY IT'S VERY UNBECOMING AND YOUR SPOUSES WOULD BE MORTIFIED.

    EVERYONE PLEASE RESUME PROGRAMMING IN THE BATTLE OF THE BEST

    ROOSTERS

    HAVE A NICE HOLY DAY, YOU DO SPEND IT KINDLY

    roll

    1. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Jesus and Christians = Peace and Love

      Mohammed = woman ( including other mens wives) sex , flashing,

      swinging, war, hate,child sex,intollerance to others.DEATH TO ALL WHO DO NOT BELIVE THE FORGOING! miss quoting HATE to-wards non-belivers.war to wards each other,to get to paradise all you have to do is KILL for ALLAH

      I know which I like to belong to PEACE AND LOVE

    2. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Agree kimberly I am a Catholic and I do not hate anybody of any faith. But paar just keeps trying to push his ( BANNED BY ISLAM MUSLIM SECT) Muslim faith down our necks he insult's Jesus, Mary, St Paul, the Holy Christian Church, claims he is Muslim but belives he knew Jesus was going to resurrect ( of course you must be dead to resurrect) so paar admits Jesus died on the cross so Jesus was resurrected after he died,I will be quite HAPPY not to disagree with Islam if Islam ( read paar) stops attacking Christians.
      Thank you for your voice of reason God bless

      1. skipper112 profile image60
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        sorry folks now paar will change EVERYTHIBG around answer nothing, give more usless links, ask more questions, make more statements about something else.
        Paar will never answer anybodys Question, I honestly belive Paar thinks everything paar says is perfect and no one has any right to dissagree with it. Paar you or the Quran are not perfect words of God if the Quran was perfect EVERYBODY would be following the Quran, guess what not everybody thinks the Quran is perfect, and NEVER will. That you can take to the bank.

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I never said that and I don't believe that; everybody can differ with me with good reasons and arguments.

          1. skipper112 profile image60
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Paar which God do you follow you quote three Gods ............ God (CHRISTIAN)................... Allah ( MUSLIM)...................YHWH ( JEWISH)................... which is your God Paar?

            1. skipper112 profile image60
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              paar you have said  the Quran is the only truth of God, it is to be belived, it is the only book that is self proveing and needs no outside proof. so you are stateing that the  the Quran is PERFECT and no one can argue with your Quotes or your word!!!

              Paar you never answer any QUESTIONS THAT HAVE GOOD REASON......................... you change the question and either ignore the QUESTION or answer with a QUESTION!!!!

              Paar which of the three Gods you quote do you follow? ( SIMPLE DIRECT QUESTION PAAR)

  19. skipper112 profile image60
    skipper112posted 6 years ago

    paar you say to understand ok then help me to understand this!!!
    The Quran says you can have 1 to 4 wives, but Mohammed had over 12 wives how is this possiable, the Quran says 1 to 4 , I do not understand paar so please explain this to me??????

    IN FACT PAAR I MUST CHASE YOU FROM BLOG TO BLOG TO TRY AND GET YOUR ANSWER'S PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS OR AM I RIGHT YOU DO NOT KNOW THE QURAN SO YOU CANNOT ANSWER ME IF THIS IS THE CASE I WILL TRY TO FIND A TRUE MUSLIM TO ANSWER FOR YOU

    paar by not answering you are doing ISLAM a grave injustice. You are just making Islam out to be undefenceable, and you make out that you have no knowledge of what you say.  You make statements you say are from the Quran yet you CANNOT give a answer from the Quran, that suprises me paar do you realy know the Quran????????

  20. J.R. Smith profile image60
    J.R. Smithposted 6 years ago

    Catholic. Let me ask you something. Have you ever compared your scriptures with christian texts? If so, How do you justify Purgatory,literal communion,confession ,celibacy or the elevation of Mary? I realize I'm probably wasting my time, but the KJV does not back the catholic church. I often wonder how one cannot see that.

    1. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      J.R.Smith in reply to your question, by saying ( Christian texts)  are you also saying Catholics are not Christian that I find insulting, I hope you did not mean Catholics are not Christian's??
      The Catholic Church Goes back to St Peter.
      WE do nor worship Mary.
      We worship Jesus Christ and the holy Trinity.
      Who says the KJV is the only true translation.
      The only difference between the KJV and the Catholic Bible is the Old Testerment, the New Testerment is the same.
      The Church of England has 'confession' said in every service, as a group; as a Catholic I confess to God via a priest...
      Jesus said to his disciples ' leave everything and follow me'' Jesus wanted his disiples to follow celibacy. He did not say bring your wives and kids.
      To be honest to you I do not care if the KJV  or any other version dose not back the Catholic Church or the Catholic Bible.
      I belive that The Catholic Church is a true faith that Goes back to St Peter.
      I was raised a Catholic , changed to Church Of England, after 14 years returned to the Catholic Church, as I found 99.99% of Christian Churches are just breakaways from The Roman Catholic Church.
      How many of Jesus's disciples were married?I know that the KJV does not back the Catholic Bible. But the way you state, it is if you place the KJV translation over every other translation. There are many versons of the Bible ( many Translations) I belive the Catholic Bible, you are free to belive any translation you wish. I hope that helps you to understand how I feel.Why do you feel like you are wasting your time,you asked me a question, I give you respect by answering. Thank you for your Question, God bless

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus himself got married and had children; how could he advise his disciples to follow celibacy? If Adam would have been a celibate to start with; you would have not known Jesus for sure. Celibacy is not a good thing; it is not pro-life.

        1. skipper112 profile image60
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          oh paar everytime you speak you prove you really do not know what you are really talking about.
          I give you good advive know what you talk about, before you just say silly things, LEARN what you are going to talk about before you make yourself out to be a fool please paar.

  21. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    [6:30] And they say, ‘There is nothing except this our present life, and we shall not be raised again.’
    [6:31] And if thou couldst only see when they are made to stand before their Lord! He will say, ‘Is not this second life the truth?’ They will say, ‘Yea, by our Lord.’ He will say, ‘Then taste the punishment because you disbelieved.’
    [6:32] Those indeed are the losers who deny the meeting with Allah, so much so, that when the Hour shall come on them unawares, they will say, ‘O our grief for our neglecting this Hour!’ And they shall bear their burdens on their backs. Surely, evil is that which they bear.
    [6:33] And worldly life is nothing but a sport and a pastime. And surely the abode of the Hereafter is better for those who are righteous. Will you not then understand?

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=32

    1. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      paar when will you answer a simple question, just try instead of just shooting off at the mouth with mindless dribbile, MAKE YOUR POASTS A TRUE DEBATE IF NOT RUN AND HIDE BEHING WORTHLESS WORDS

  22. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    [2:165] Verily, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of night and day, and in the ships which sail in the sea with that which profits men, and in the water which Allah sends down from the sky and quickens therewith the earth after its death and scatters therein all kinds of beasts, and in the change of the winds, and the clouds pressed into service between the heaven and the earth — are indeed Signs for the people who understand.

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=164

    1. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      As usual paar you never answer just ramble on another subject HOW BOORING!!!

  23. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    change of the winds, and the clouds pressed into service between the heaven and the earth — are indeed Signs for the people who understand.

    1. skipper112 profile image60
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Gee another silly riddle from a man that has only one Mission in life, to destroy and  tell uproven so called truths about Jesus and Christians, FACT Christianity was here before Islam , Christiany has stood the test of time and paar your insane extream unproven attacks on Jesus only show your lack of understanding, what insane insults will you THINK  up next!!!
      May the lord Jesus Christ figive your insane extream attacks..............

      1. libby101a profile image60
        libby101aposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        HI skipper! I see you are still trying to defend the faith! I think Paar isn't going to answer any of the quetions you've ask! I got tired of asking with no answers! He comes back with nonsense that doesn't answer anything you've ask! Therefore I gave up on him! He will just go start something else!

        The truth shall come and split the Easter Sky someday! The truth's name is Jesus, son of the almight God!

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus was a truthful Messenger Prophet of the Creator-God Allah YHWH; he was neither a god not a son of god; he was son of man as he himself truly claimed. Didn't he?

          1. skipper112 profile image60
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            paar prove it chapter and verse please?

 
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