My Mind is Open

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   schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years ago

   I recently read somewhere that the Bible condones slavery and stoning.........
   
   I never have been aware of these things.....I haven't looked up these quotes yet, so I'm not 100% convinced - I'm sure I will be
   
   It's just that many people in the forums talk poorly about religions or Christians, so I would just like to know about what?
   
   Please respond and list all  you know that Christians or others do wrong. Thankyou. I will read and digest and see what I believe and don't.  I will need proof also and of course I already understand things like molestation in the Church--it's wrong of course.
   
   Go ahead.

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      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      BOTH theist and a/theist do wrong because they choose to believe and disbelieve. This is the greatest wrong. Both are slaves --whether they will openly, ethically and honestly say it-- to their own perspective/agenda.
      
      Christians -the pagan called holy ones-- worship their perspective of Creator in the form of a book or statue or far off entity, without actually investing any valuable time/effort in being alone with Creator.
      The a/theists reject or scoff for the same reason. They invested in religion and it failed them, because they fabricated --according to or without said doctrine-- a "how it is supposed to be" ideology. Yet they too did not and do not invest in time with Creator.
      
      Instead both assume righteousness by their own designed perspective and conclude correctness. They ridicule, scoff, mock, defend, emote affection or deflection, only to end the day with the same emptiness they has before. True, their minds and even bodies stimulated with all kinds of things, which woo them to sleep like lullabies, but no comfort is found for them because of their own thinking.
      
      In the end, the Creator had nothing to do with either and both never seem to get it...

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      1. 60

         hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Nicely written

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            Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Well reasoned.

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      2. 58

         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         We truly are the prisoner of our own reasoning.
         
            And there is no escape.  Because if we do escape , we have just traded one jail for another. Or another.
         
            No matter how far we go, or how fast we get there...  when we get there.. there we are.  We have brought our new reasoning with us.
         
            I'm going to try to go back to sleep now.

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      3. 91

         Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Wrong.  I never "invested in religion".
         
         My parents took me to church.  At first I thought the stories I heard there were just like the Winnie the Pooh stories that my mother read to me at home - harmless, not meant to be taken as fact.
         
         At some point I realized that was not the case.  I was shocked.  How could people believe such malarkey?
         
         No "investment" - just instant rejection of the ridiculous stories.

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            PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I was never "invested in religion" either.  Even as a child, my rational mind could not get past the crazy fairy tales.

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            1. 91

               Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               It was even worse.  I'm old enough that when I started school, our day began with prayers.  Bad enough that your family seems to be insane, but then you find out that your teachers and all your classmates seem to suffer from the same delusions.  I can see why my wife thought she must be the one with a problem; oddly, i never felt that way.
               
               It did scare me though.  If you accept that you are living in a world where everyone is mildly insane, you have to wonder just how far they will take it.  What other irrational things might they be capable of?  I remember feeling very isolated and separated because of that fear.  It wasn't until I realized that there were others like me that I felt more safe.

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                  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm also old enough!  "Our Father who art in heaven...."  I used to pretend to pray because I knew it would look weird not to.  It wasn't until I was around 12 or 13 that I admitted to anyone that I did not believe in God.  My mother was horrified and told me I would go to hell if I did not change my ways, and my parents hardly ever attended church.  It was a little scary, but I just could not abandon my own thought processes in favor of something that made no sense.
                  
                  Also, I distinctly remember some of the most religious kids being the biggest liars and bullies, which only confirmed to me that religion was fake.

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                  1. 61

                     Love and Peaceposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     My face lit up when I read both of your comments. I've never seen or heard any stories so similar to my own. I didn't have to attend a catholic church (mainly because we couldn't afford it) but every Sunday I had to attend 5 hours of religion school.
                     
                     I remember trying to find ways to get out of it without telling my parents or the teachers that the real reason I didn't want to go was because I was tired of trying to be tricked and scared into believing such absurdities.
                     
                     My day has been made.

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                     1. 91

                        Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Many atheists tell similar tales, but the religious seem to want us to have had belief. Perhaps they simply cannot imagine minds different from their own.

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                        1. 61

                           Love and Peaceposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           They really can't. Every time I even try and have a debate or even just a harmless conversation with a 'believer' about their religion they don't try and defend themselves or their faith they just tell me how wrong I am and how we shouldn't even talk about it. Usually they just change the subject or simply tell me I'll go to hell.
                           
                           They're afraid to face differences, because they're afraid they might actually start thinking logically. *gasp*

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                              hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              well if you told me to think logically about God i would tell you not to talk about it too. If this is your approach, you must be hard to reach. I have found when christians do not defend they are either fed up with the same questions over and over or the person is so way way wrong, which is fine, often wrong concepts can be dealt with by stating the truth, but sometimes not. The non christian does not want to hear or comprehend the truth or believe in the bible. Non belief in the bible pretty much negates any verbal interaction other than... nice day isn't it?
                                   We are not afraid to face differences, evil attitudes, governments that oppose the will of God. Wickedness, wrong doctrines and we constantly deal out love where hate exists, reprove christians who are thinking or doing wrong. Leave comfy lifestyles and big incomes to go to africa and feed starving people and live in a mud hut. *gasp*

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                        2. 60

                           hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           We don't care if you have ever had religion or a belief. Our concerns are about now and the future. We are actually glad that you are not wounded and neither do you point fingers (because a finger pointer won't hold up or have any weight when God asks, "what have you done with my son?") so we like not having to once again undo what catholicism has done.
                           BUT often times a person who has pride, is selfish, or has a nice life and thinks him/herself to be doing absolutely fine in the world (so why drag God into it) are harder to deal with. Those who have thought up or reinterpreted the bible to mean some fantastic fantasy world of vivid imaginations and has doctrines of private interpretation, where they long to be king pin in a new religion, if only people would pick up their cross, lol, these kind are very hard to deal with.
                           Minds different from our own?
                           1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ".  Having ones own mind is not all it is cracked up to be.
                           John 10:1 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber".
                           Ya gotta be careful.
                           So always there are three sides to the coin.

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            Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            So, you weren't happy in wonderland, and so reject it all. One school is different from another school. One class is different than another. You are saying that you quit school because one class wasn't to your liking, and so embrace a concept for another that has it's own high priests whose job it is to explain to your mind what you should believe. Science and religion are really one thing. You do have to stand outside of both to grasp this.

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            1. 91

               Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Science and religion are not the same thing at all. Truly, that is one of the most irritating things that theists say.
               
               Science seeks knowledge. Religion pretends to have the knowledge already. The history of mankind has been science inexorably forcing religion into an ever more tight corner. 
               
               We can guess from early writing that the Jewish religion began with a storm god - worshipping the power if thunder and lightning.  Christian theology picked up on that and merged in a lot of other early nonsense, and science has been chipping away at it ever since. 
               
               The god concept has become  ever more amorphous and removed, but still clings to threads. How much more evidence do we need to prove to you that none of it is real?  Obviously, some minds are too stubborn to see reality.  It is sad, really.

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               Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Science and religion are completely different - opposite approaches

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   2. 91

      Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What does "what you do wrong" have to do with anything?
      
      Prisons are full of Christians who did wrong things.   So what?
      
      The reason people "talk poorly" is because the beliefs are foolish.  It is as simple as that.

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      1. 61

         Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Are you ready? Here comes a torpedo. Many saints had some pretty sinful ways. John, The Divine wrote "Revelation" from prison, and many disciples were well familiar with the inside of a cell. You may consider that my beliefs are foolish. Do I talk poorly? Do I write poorly? You are full of yourself, so superior, looking down your nose at others. Anyone who doesn't believe as you do is foolish. My, my, my.

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   3. 73

      lorlie6posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      'Sin' in Christianity is a given.  Why else would there be forgiveness built in to the system?

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   4. 75

      Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      schoolgirlforreal
      
      I got those hypnotizing glasses you sent me, ha ha.
      Do you think I’m being hypnotized by something or just too far out?
      
      Finish that hub, I'm a big fan of George Carlin, he belongs to no group too.
      Man, he can express things much better than I

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   5. 91

      Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You mentioned elsewhere that people didn't take your question seriously. OK, here is a serious answer from an atheist.
      
      I don't care.  I think many awful things have been done in the name of religion, but, more often than not, the religious aspect simply provided the excuse for actions that would have been done anyway.
      
      Yes, stupid people sometimes do ugly things. Perhaps at times religion provides some impetus for their action, but again: they are capable of these acts, if religion didn't provide the excuse, something else might have caused the same or similar behavior.
      
      If religion is definitely at fault for some evil, I would hope that is at least balanced off by the genuine good that others do because of their beliefs.
      
      I do not believe religion is necessary. I think it is quite foolish. But I don't believe there is any justification to attack it on the grounds of evil.
      
      Is that what you were looking for?

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2. 62

   skipper112posted 13 years ago

   twenty one days, well writen and you have made your point, however I as a Catholic must disagree with your concerpt.
   
   Yes I read and follow the Holy Bible.
   No I do not worship a statue in any way.
   
   I pray to My Lord God Jesus Christ.
   I spend time talking to Jesus in prayer.
   I do not think I am more righteousness than anybody else, I have my own relationship with Jesus and my Church.
   You see as a Catholic I have found peace, with Jesus I feel safe, as Jesus is a liveing and loveing God.
   What others do is up to them, they can worship as they please, or not worship, we were given free will by my Lord God to  use as you please.
   All I do ask if anybody that disagree's with me that is fine also. But do it peacefully, do not hurt,kill, or maime or show disrepect or do anything that is not peacefull.
   We come by this way only once, let each and every one, follow Jesus, Mohammed,or any other 'God' that is their right, as we all have free will. We do not have a right to be warlike, angry, to insult or attack other Religions,we have a right to PEACE only.
   That is what I think,
   God bless.

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      sofsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Beautifully put, skipper 112.... and twenty one days..
      
      You need to KNOW  God , not just about him,
      worship is not an hour in church or with a group of people,  it is your heart being raised in love to the creator..in  the utter and beautiful submission ..the highest form of love...
      
      If one loves God he loves mankind... so do unto others as you will have them do unto you..
      I have found such great love from those that do not believe too .. we are all human .. .. why be judgmental .. we once were......  may have been even worse..
      
      we need to allow  the love of God to bring about a change in us,  that we are not operating in selfishness of the flesh anymore but we are conformed to the image of His Son...
      Being transformed by his word is the essence of Christianity not condemning or slighting others.
      I believe that there is goodness in everyone, but the choices that we make are what others see... I am reminded of Eph 3:20
      Now unto him....who is able to do exceedingly, abundantly more than we can ask or dream or think or even imagine.. according to the POWER AT WORK IN US.... do we allow the power of the love of god to work in us?
      God is love....

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         jchalressposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I disagree.
         We do not Need To Know Creator, as we already do.
         This is the Adamic Inception at the core.
         Adam convinced himself, in his mind, that he was naked, etc.
         Which is ironically why he was specifically asked Who told him he was. Note his response was deflective, because at that moment --I sincerely believe -- he really didn't know who did, only that he did know and now could not escape it. As a result he began the torturous journey of self (self indulgence, self seeking, self implied separation, self necessity, etc etc etc). He worshiped his own mind and when his mind could not satisfy his need, he build a world around him to silence that necessity as best he could.
         
         Now, with the gift, which was simply a restoring of mankind from his own mind, and all its neediness (needing to know, choice), he has liberty again. Access to everything originally designed for him. A life beyond choice and need. A life of perfection in mind, in actual physical form and above all spirit (the Power that works in us, who believe). It is not in needing to believe that we are free. From the moment we choose to believe, we cannot continue to indulge ourselves --make choices. Else, we fall back into the same place we were before, necessity and of course reason and justification of that reason.
         
         Alas, our excuse is "we are human". But that is just another mind trick we have taught ourselves and convinced ourselves of. We are more than human --we are human beings! Mirror reflections of the entire universe, of Love --which is Creator, which is everything and in everything.
         
         All the various forms of The Ism, especially the mighty and proud Christianity equally balanced by a/theism, especially the mighty Scientist have all failed. From The Temple of Solomon and Sheva to the Smithsonian Temple err, Museum; the mile deep Svalbard Seed Vault to Apple's iWhatever. They are all lustrous, brilliantly complex systems of illusion, man has fashioned, to keep himself in control of something he can never be in control of --his own life, so long as he continues to think and use thought as his god.
         
         His only solution/escape is to either die with/without hope or reject choice, reject his mind and dismiss once and for all the notion that he is alone. He never was, even though he thought so at the time...
         
         (ps, this is James aka Twenty One Days). For some reason, after 3 posts yesterday, without any clue why, I was banned.)

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      Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      HELLO CATHOLIC. I applaud you for your steadfast belief. Went to a parochial for a short time, but  I'm not catholic. Back before nuns could wear civvies, and the Liturgy was still in latin. I am not a big fan of conventional, "organised" religion. I'm more a grass roots kind of fellow.

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3. 62

   skipper112posted 13 years ago

   schoolgirlforreal, if my memory is correct in the old Testerment you may find references to 'slavery' and 'stoning'I must be honest it is a long time since I have read the Old Testerment. But remember as a Catholic I belive Jesus and the Gospels replace the Old ways, with a new Convernent, one that will not alow such acts to be condoned, that is what I belive.
   I belive that to molest harm show disrepect, is very wrong it should never happen to anybody, but it does happen and it can only be condemed. I wish we all lived in a perfect world, but alas we do not, to anybody that this has happened to I can only say I am so sorry it happened to you, this is not my way and  not my Gods way either. As A catholic I follow My Lord Jesus Christ, I try to live in peace, and treat all  of mankind with respect.
   God bless

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      Kamzezuruposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Belief in every statement the Bible makes is sheer naivety. There are many things recorded therein which no Christian would condone. They are merely reflections of human nature warts and all, and of course reflections of Divine nature as well, to provide the balance.
      The Old Testament lays the foundations of Christianity and builds on these as human knowlege of God evolved over 2000 years, until a full manifestation of God the Father's character was revealed in the flesh, in the life, death and resurrection of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. So 'The New is in the Old contained and the Old is by the New explained.'
      God's moral demands of us humans are so high (See the Sermon on the Mount in the Gospels) that they are impossible for us to meet. It is Christ's Holy Spirit indwelling us, alone, that enables this standard of behaviour to be achieved; which is why St Paul wrote, 'Christ in you the hope of salvation.' This is the reason for being constantly reminded of this fact, as well as the memorial of Christ's sacrifice on our behalf, when we 'eat His body broken for us, and drink His blood shed for us at the Holy Communion service.

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      J.R. Smithposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      How can you say the New Test. replaces the Old? Jesus said many times to read the scripture.he could not have been refering to New Testament,it wasn't written yet. Are we to abide by the 10 commandments?

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      1. 61

         Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "I come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it." Jesus; circa 1st century AD

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            Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Also, J.R. you are possessed of a comprehension that can only provide you a clear understanding. People must read, not merely see the words that are written.

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         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I agree with you. Jesus was a Jew and he believed in Torah; he never went to any church and did not believe in any NT; he never read it.

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   3. 79

      schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      true, thanks for your comment

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4. 80

   skyfireposted 13 years ago

   My mind is open but i'm partial to god's existence and my religion -without any proof of creator, any logic and reasoning. Why ? because i don't want to give pain to my brain.

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      aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If it's a pain in the brain, you are in religion.
      
      Christianity is a HEART thing, and there is no pain.
      There's peace and joy.

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         Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         christians still don't understand that the heart does not feel, but the brain does

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         1. 60

            hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Matthew 12:34 "O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks".
            
            Matthew 12:35 "A good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things".
            
            Matthew 13:15 "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them".
            
            Matthew 15:18   But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man
            
            Matthew 15:19 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies":
            
            Matthew 22:37 "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind"
            
            Thats just a few out of Mathew. There's 169 verses about the heart.

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               Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               that's 169 times that the bible stuffed up

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                  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  What exactly do you mean by your statement? When you were a christian, did you not understand the scripture verses relating to the heart? The meaning is staring you right in the face. God loves you Bailey.

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      Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      His is faith based belief.(Skyfire) Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet, believed. God has already revealed himself to you.

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5. 74

   DaKingsKidposted 13 years ago

   Sad truth is that people where stoned back in the old testament. There is an account where a women in the new testament was caught in the act of adultery and people where going to stone her but Jesus stepped in. As they all left, He turned to her and asked her "where are your accusers, now" He did not even accuse her, He told her to go and sin no more.
   
   The talk of one jail for another mention above, or reasoning needing proof?
   
   Let say in the end, I where wrong about my faith and devotion to God, I lived a life aiming to help others in the situations that life brings about and lived a life of Love, loved God and serve Him,obedient to God and am blessed in it. Question can you afford to be wrong? And not have?
   I'm saved by Faith, In Jesus Christ, not anything that i have done.
   As for evidence, look at a house is that not proof that there is a builder? Intelligent design, or bang the logs all just happened to make their way to each other. I cant see the builder but i know there is one.
   Ever see Wind, cant see it yet i know its there, or can see the effects of it?
   
   Jesus' Love for Us is more than just a bunch of song people sing at church. Its real and available. For further instructions check out www.jesus2020.com
   
   He is sooooooo Real.

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6. 59

   kephriraposted 13 years ago

   My mind isn't open. It has a strict entrance policy.
   
   And well said Pcunix, atheists aren't all failed believers. Believers are all failed atheists who couldn't handle the truth and wanted to believe in the comforting bed time stories instead.

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      Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes - believers ARE failed atheists.   They failed to apply logic to the ridiculous tales their parents told them.
      
      Admittedly, it's hard.  My wife told me that she thought there must be something "wrong" with her because everyone in her family believed what she saw as complete nonsense.   I suppose many weak people assume that everyone else must know better than they do.
      
      Bet again, very good point: Believers are all failed atheists.

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         Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Pcunix
         
         If believers are fail atheists and 80% - maybe 90% of the world are believers and atheist are 3%
         
         Dose that make atheist
         A. Makes atheists no better or worst than anyone else
         B. Believers average, atheist above average
         C. Makes believers immortal super human beings
         D. Make atheists a superior human beings
         E. non of above, give your answer

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            Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            It is simple statistical fact that religious belief declines with intelligence.
            
            That's not saying much, though. As I have said before, intelligence is like strength - having a little more than other folks can be an advantage, having a lot more can be a disadvantage.
            
            So rather than passing judgment, I think it is more interesting to explore why most disengage their brains and accept laughable nonsense as truth. Is it herd mentality? Woukd it make sense for the need to fit in to decline with rising intelligence? You might make that case - bright people tend to feel out of place with the Dulls rather early in life.
            
            Could it have to do with the role of emotion in thought? Bright people tend to disparage emotional instincts (they really shouldn't, but most do).  Is religious belief most strongly driven by emotion? You can make a good argument there, too.
            
            Or is it something else entirely? There is a book called 'Why We Believe What We Believe' that explores some of that.

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            skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Appeal to popularity fallacy.

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         Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Aren't you pretending to know everything when you probably cannot read and make sense out of Einstein's own notepad? That means that someone smarter than you must explain it, and you must take their word for it, and accept their interpretation. How blind faithy is that. Atheists are a joke. As for being a failed one, that would assume that I ever was an atheist. Presumption is a good path to the wrong side of the fence.

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            Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Huh???
            
            What does Einstein have to do with any of this?
            
            I can't say that I understand electron tunneling, but I know that it works - I am holding a device that uses it in my hands as I type this.  Any fool can see that science applies knowledge and produces tangible results - what results can religion show?  None at all - religion does nothing but comfort those too weak to accept reality.

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               Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Atheism is a religion. And what does religion have to do with it. Science has not ended. If your destination is not the end of the line, then you will probably never know the truth. Science is ongoing and things change. Maybe you should look to inner space. God lurks there also, and is not as easy to dismiss, but completing the journey is still advised. My point about Einstein is this. Your belief still requires an element of faith. You have faith that science reveals the truth and uncovers all that is hidden. You have to take it on faith because you aren't a physisist. Theoretical physics is an even bigger bag. Most of your argument is based on THEORETICAL physics. Unproven, so how can it be used as proof? The fact that you and those like you continue to delude yourselves into thinking that  it is a definitive answer is proof to me that you have no understanding, and all you want to do is spread secular PROPAGANDA. How well written was that. Did I miss anything?

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                  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I hold the truth of science in my hand. It's called an iPad.
                  
                  Your religion never taught us anything about physics, medicine, engineering. The reality of science is all around you; the fantasy of religion exists only in your mind.

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                     Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     uh, actually, it all generated from early religion. You know, science. And science tells me that human beings don't know everything yet. Science tells me that once everything has been figured out, then scientists will have no more to do. Have you even seen the "To Do" list? Longer than the list of things we've done. You are like the teenager who having figured out the door latch on the car determines that they are ready for a cross-country tour sans driving lessons.

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                        Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Keep twisting.
                        
                        Science is not religion.  It is true that astronomy was originally intended to divine the intentions of the gods, but those reasons were abandoned a long time ago.
                        
                        Science is real. Religion is fantasy.

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                  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL! Yes, a dictionary.

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                     Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Thought this forum was called Open Mind? Like a moth to a flame, so very predictable. But still...one wonders why y'all came here. To prove your close mindedness I presume.

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                  Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  atheism is religion?  What a load of codswaddle.  How is atheism anything like religion?

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                     paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Atheism is not a religion; it is a meme; it behaves like a religion though it is not

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                        hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        amen. It is a meme indeed!

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            Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You were born an atheist. You were taught religion and swallowed it like pablum.

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               Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               actually, how do you know how I was born. What makes you think that? I am not a religionist. I say way more outlandish things than religionists do. In fact, I believe that there is more to the mind of a child than that. The mind is way more complex. As to my beliefs? I blame no man.

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               hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               We are born knowing what we feel and touch and smell and know from our parents. In some cases the parent taught God in some cases the parent taught world.
               There is nothing wrong with this situation. It does not make one person better than another.
               We were born neutral.
               It is the duty of the parents to instruct the child according to their beliefs.
               
               Once again God is correct.
               Genesis 1:24   And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
               
               Atheist parents bring up atheist children and Godly parents, godly children. Each kind after its own kind.
               God is brilliant!

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            getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            That's not the same as some minister explaining the abject nonsense of the bible.  And most ministers, from my youth, were not even as smart as I was.
            
            
            
            So you admit that you only have blind faith.
            
            
            
            This statement is absurd coming from an adult who literally believes in fairytales.

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               hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               LOL
               most ministers from my youth wre not even as smart as i was.
               holy inference batman! That's right robin, summon the batmobile!
               
               you have no proof that they are fairytales... seeing as this comes from the jewish HISTORY book. A book that like your OWN HISTORY book you studied from in school and accepted with blind faith, its accuracy, and there was no God in it. And of course after you grew up you had no further need for history (general assumption, just go with me here) and you put it aside.
               Nevertheless to some extent it was true, your lack of need for it did not make it untrue.
               And there was no God in it.
               How much more should we pay attention to a history book with God in it.
               Just my opinion, i tried not to be as condescending as your post was.
               

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   DoorMattnomoreposted 13 years ago

   I don't get the "do wrong part" but..the Bible clearly has stories of stoning and slavery, as those things existed in the time frame of when the Bible was written. I have no idea if that condones it exactly, it just says that stuff existed. Why does the Bible saying so and so got stoned for doing this and that, have anything to do with how a person should treat another person today?

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      Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sometimes  do things, which to us seem like things we believe God wouldn't want us to do. Slavery being one, but consider this: If a person is bent on enslaving another, they will enslave that person, yet it says not to be desirous of, or to take another person's property.  This is clear, at the Jordan River. The Israelites were set on ending their forty years wandering, and coveting the land of Canaan, were told to "Go and take it." Moses stayed on the other side, and never set foot in "The Promised Land" This is an interpretation which you probably won't see elsewhere.

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      Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      As for stoning: Our history tells us of a time of violent, revolutionary change. That time is done, and we acheive change through the electorate. Further, when I was a child, I did childish things. Situations change, everything evolves. Darkness is always defeated by light, and that which we do in darkness of ignorance, is supplanted by continued knowledge. Once, we wiped our butts with leaves, now we use toilet paper.

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      B0v1N3 Cu$$3NC$posted 13 years agoin reply to this

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         hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         1.73 million abortions per year in the U.S.A
         hiroshima
         http://www.hiroshimacommittee.org/Facts … ombing.htm (doesn't say how many animals and trees - notice the bottom of the page, sickness and long term ill health)
         WW1 most agree about 50million people (again no mention of animals)
         WW2 62-78 million
         
         God never killed anywhere near this amount and i haven't even begun to divulge death by man made wars.

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         hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         If there is a devil, which i am convinced there is not. Your statement would be 'old news' although many in christendom would not argue the point.
         Lets say there is a devil. You are still wrong. The devil is not allowed to kill. Killing stops the work of God that God wants to do; toward the saving of souls. If the devil randomly went around killing people then 1) there would be no one left. 2) adam and eves kids would have amounted to zero. 3) Some people heading for 'salvation' would be halted permanently. 4) the devil would not be controlled, maintained, or asking for permission.
         If  you want to tackle the permission aspect. Lets look at the book of Job. Satan was not allowed to take his life. Natural disasters are not of the devil and if satan is asking permission how many times a day would he ask for permission to kill this individual here, or those in the building and what about the other questions pertaining to permission that the devil has to ask.. this is a whole lot of asking, quite the continuous stream.

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   schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years ago

   Most of this was useless
   My question was, show me solid examples
   like for instance the inquisition or some solid piece of info I may not be aware of so that I may look it over.
   
   Having an open mind is the most honest and "easygoing" thing I can think of. Is not this the way we find the truth and seek the truth?
   
   If you are in favor of closed minds, you'll never get anyone to agree with you, not that I in particular will agree, but at least I'm willing to look into things before I make descisions.
   
   Closed minds cannot invent things or change things.
   
   So, yeah, what most of you said was useless because you fought amoungst yourselves which wasn't the point of this thread.
   But I'm not surprised, I guess since you're mere humans, this is what I should expect.

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      awareposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      the last sentence above says it all .

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      Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      schoolgirlforreal
      
      She is so cute
      
      The SF little fish came up to the BF big fish and asked.
      SF- Where is the ocean?
      BF- It’s all around you, it surrounds you, your swimming in it
      SF- It was not the answer he was seeking and he swam away seeking
      
      This is all providing that the small fish was not his pray

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         schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Did I mention you have zero hubs?

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            Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Good point
            
            I'm new and will work on it.

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   awareposted 13 years ago

   just doesnt grab me .

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      Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      On one hand, If one commits to a god concept, there is a chance that evidence will be given. No promises. It is also said that to know yourself is to know god. The problem with proving the creation of the universe scientifically, is this. Verification relies on DUPLICATION in the lab. Not sure we should even be trying. This is what a particle accelerator is supposed to do. Hasn't worked yet. Not sure that's a good idea, anyways. In the days of the manhattan project, it was theorized by scientists involved, that splitting the atom might destroy the world. They went ahead and did it anyways. In this world, science BECOMES GOD, and scientists become priests.

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         Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I believe that it doesn't matter what anyone believes. What will be, will be, regardless, and right now? We are in deep doo-doo on this planet, and arguing any side is really counterproductive. Atheists think that deists opinions are worthless, and deists believe that atheists are tools of the devil. So, let's put this garbage aside, before our scientifically technolized world can no longer support life. You guys pray, and you other people, knock off trying to prove the experiment before we blow ourselves, (And the rest of creation) to kingdom come! 2nd thought. Push the flippin' button, and the first one to the after-life wins.

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            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Well, it's nice to see that believers will at least admit the state of affairs as a result of their stewardship of our planet these last few millennium.
            
            Still though, it's interesting to note they don't think it matters, regardless.

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               Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Please, my friend. Stewardship? Obviously, you aren't from here. Man's stewardship of said planet does really suck. Imagine the landlord is really ticked. Trouble w/ your statement? It has gotten exponentially worse since the "Age Of Reason" began. Now, we are sliding headlong towards self destruction, when before, it was more a snail's pace. And why do I think it no longer matters? Because man is in control of our salvation. I am simply not kidding myself. We are beyond the tipping balance, now it is just "Tighten your seatbelts and hold on! The river of no return." Paddling does nothing.

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                  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  The very same men who embrace gods.
                  
                  
                  
                  Like for example, modern medicine has made things worse? Are you upset because your life has been prolonged, you are healthier, you have many such modern conveniences so that you don't have to live in a cave?

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                     hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Since all things are made, reverse engineering has much to do with discovery and medicine is trial and error, but research is based upon what is created already.
                     God is behind every good work in some way.
                     To say that man ever works independently of God is hubris.
                     We did not create the elemental table it was there for the observation.
                     We did not create rockets that go to the moon, the moon was there, propulsion was necessary to escape the gravitational pull... The first bunch of rockets plummetted to the ground, but that was mans doing, God would have created the perfect rocket that flew the first time. lol.
                     medicine, was not penicillian 'found' grown in a peetree dish by 'accident' lol.

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         Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Again, you keep forgetting that science produces real results.  Religion produces nothing but lies.

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            hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            and you forget that science reverse engineered or observed everything the Lord God created! The periodic table is full of created elements that man did not create. etc...
            Religion produces a host of good people, yearly, many more than the bad ones. If you start to count you would spend your life because the good ones are never in the newspaper.
            You infer from what is bigoted news and in wisdom count this to be truth.
            It seems your inference produced the same thing.
            a lie, but a handy lie because it quickly and although wrongly backed up the point you wanted to make.
            try again my friend your tenacity intrigues me for one who is so neutral, you seem diligent.

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    getitriteposted 13 years ago

    The Bible nowhere explicitly condemns slavery, but allowed a regulated practice of it, especially under the Old Testament, and New Testament as well:
    
    “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.”
    
    —Ephesians 6:5-6.
    
    Why would the bible not just outright condemn slavery as repulsive?  If it is the inspired word of God, why does it conform to man's established repulsive customs?

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       Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Because WE INSISTED. We were given divorce because of "The hardness of our hearts." If we wish bad things we get bad things!

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          getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          Pure nonsense!

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       Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       getitrite
       
       interesting
       
       Slavery is at its largest ever and in the capitalist world most of us are debtor slaves.
       
       schoolgirlforreal your post dose open up our minds.

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       hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Ephesians 6:5 "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
         Ephesians 6:6 "Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
       
       depends on the version i suppose. Slavery was allowed to pay a debt. A person could sell themselves into slavery for X amount of years to pay a debt owed. Like if an oxen killed a child for example and the owner of the oxen did not have enough money to give restitution to the owner or other reasons. Slaves were always freed every jubillee year (49th). Whether a debt began in the 1st or 20th or 40th of this cycle.
       With slavery in the United States, this was not Gods plan of restitution. This was white mans greed. Lincoln was shot because he wanted to free the slaves and some business man said somewhere, If the slaves get freed that is gonna raise prices... because they will have to pay the workers.
       This chapter deals with earthly masters, as a child - parents, as parents -boss, employer, government, police. etc. But not slavery as in slaves, the meaning of slaves to earthly masters can mean maids and butlers but servant is preferred.
       
       i hope that dose open up your minds

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          Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Good explanation.
          ...There is also the fact that, back "then", there were Kings and Queens and the entire system of living was different.  It didn't make it right (remember God freed His people the Israelites) but it's a testament to the fact that God can and will work any situation out for the good of those who trust Him;  and that He expects people themselves to rise up and rally for the cause of freedom, though they WILL go through a lot of flack to get there, even perhaps famine unless they trust Him to provide manna from above!   In which case, that makes God the original "civil rights activist"!  LOL.   But indeed a far cry from the silliness of those like Obama and others who fight for an agenda that's not Godly at all.  Anything God does, the devil tries to copy it for his own wicked agenda.

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    awareposted 13 years ago

    we will create a real god

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       Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       "IT'S ALIVE!... ALIVE!" Dr. Frankenstein. A cautionary tale. Those who know little vs those who know less. That which man calls god is US. Every last one of us, from the greatest to the least of us. This god you seek, is within. If you would consider this, the concept can reveal all that you question. Fear not, your own darkness, there is more here than you will ever know, and you will not find it unless you look. There be dragons.

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    getitriteposted 13 years ago

    Leviticus 25:44
    
    "And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have-from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves."
    
    If the bible is the inspired word of God, it certainly sounds like God is regulating slavery, something that is despicable and repulsive.
    
    Schoolgirl, does this shed any light on your inquiry?  Are you still open-minded?

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       hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       You can buy them ... maids and butlers.. workers in the field.. this is referring to paying them a wage.
       the better translation is hire, not buy.
       Since the bible is the inspired word of God you cannot just read it and copy and paste it, you have to research the phrases that seem to speak obviously to you. And often I have found there is a different meaning than the english of 1611(KJV) or even 1973 (NIV)
       
       you are welcomed.
       There was no slavery as per slavery, except as a word that depicts someone paying a debt and they were always set free as you can read earlier on in that chapter of lev 25 in the year of jubilee.
       hope this helps

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    awareposted 13 years ago

    i was more referring to the movie the watchmen

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       Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       He also regulated divorce in the same way. The desire to own slaves comes from the heart of man. The failure to feed the starving millions in the world is also something which comes from our hearts. This world is following after the Beast, would you expect less? Do you think slavery is a thing of the past? Why, when the US was founded, weren't our slaves freed? We were proclaiming the equality of all, and keeping millions in chains? Does it surprise you that man and god resemble each other?

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          hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Man and god do not resemble each other. In the posts above i shed a better light on the true meaning of slavery as God set it up. Man takes from God and twists and perverts it to his own use. In the scenario you describe, capitalism engineered the whole thing, committed murders and ripped people from their homeland to work for free. This is certainly NOT gods ways.
          Since you may be druid i can see how easily it is for you to jump on the negate God bandwagon. As usual, free from castigation are the dead spirits of trees and rocks, which God created.

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             skipper112posted 13 years agoin reply to this

             well said hanging out,
             nice to see a fair comment thanks
             God bless

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          Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Druid
          
          I liked what you said. I QUESTION this sentence
          
          Does it surprise you that man and god resemble each other?
          
          God is just a word, its the behavior that matters.
          If you relate that sentence to God, in the context of the positive side of man, being loving
          
          NO

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    Daniel Carterposted 13 years ago

    It doesn't matter how much God loves you until you can learn to love yourself. Until then, you can't understand or believe that anyone loves you.

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       Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       All you have in life is what you give away, you give love you get love and so on for everything.You need to love yourself first.
       
       If one group claim that they have all the love, it is most likely their God is not all loving. The concept of hell is not all loving.

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