Fear and the fear of retribution is a regular theme of all faith based beliefs systems. You worship a pinicious and malicious god that demands absolutely and gives only conditionally. You live in debt of a creator and as such you creditors fear his knock on the door. What a way to live life, in fear and guilt, fear and guilt that pervades every walk of life and it doesn't matter how much you give it will never be enough, never enough to take away your guilt.
There are no truths and no absolute truths or realities but there are perceptions of truths born from power struggles. The weakness of mankind wrapped in fear is the creation of a need for an omnipotent being a being that demands faith in the shadows of non existence. God did not make man in his image as man made god in his image, a god more powerful than those that ruled, more powerful than the Romans where the sickness of the opporessed turned human strengths and qualities into weakness's. They took their weakness's and turned them into strengths, how else could we ever get to a point where there is a fundamental belief and faith in the meek inheriting the earth. What virtues then of mankind !!
This is the same argument that all non-believers use to cover their own guilt. It is entirely backward and self justifying. God doesn't exist so whewww. i am not in trouble.
What a lot of people are is, dead. spiritually dead. God can't work with them, they keep perusing the forums and learning nothing, they always argue, they never edify because those words are not in them, they are dead They disbelieve the bible, they hate christ, they despise anyone who has a working faith in God, wells without water, clouds without rain. Dead to God and his spirit, dead to conversion, dead to words of life and godly works.
And they blame a masochistic God. LOL
While christlikeians follow a loving God..
ooooh that should be a stumper
You can't hate people who never existed.
Can't blame something that doesn't exist.
That "I am not in trouble" does not represent atheist or humanistic thought at all.
As the original post states there are no absolute truths or realities, this is not about being right or wrong. When we take the stance of I'm right and yor wrong and attach to them the virtues of good and bad we do it without any regard to the nature of humanity.
God is good, I believe in god so therefore I'm good and those that choose not to believe are bad. It is a simplistic and illogical argument. It ignores all the bad that is done in the name of god. Are we not told that is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get to heaven and yet the meditors (churches and priests) are among the riches institutes in the world, they are worth milions and live well while the poor remain poor and have to subscribe to a position in the world that is then will of god. Really !!
Gosh, it's great to be spiritually dead! Free of the intellectual slavery!
An illusion unto yourself. Prove to me that you exist.
"I am right because I know I am." This is the argument of Christians and Atheists alike. It's like the image of Washington arguing with image of the eagle on a quarter that's just been flipped. "I'm going to come up." "No, I am."
SAME SAME. You just don't realize that your stand is just as untenable as theirs. I believe that there is SOMETHING. Something intelligent outside of our immediate understanding. It seems to me that most believers are thinking along the lines of a firecracker, when in reality it is more like an atomic bomb, and that, far from being "Super Natural" it is totally natural. It is part of not just human beings, but everything. You all determine your judgements on the subject from a position of little, true comprehension, not just believers, but non-believers also. I am extremely well schooled, and I simply do not know enough to take anything off the table, and believe me, I have access to the cutting edge of man's knowledge, therefore, I don't believe that you have enough info either. To take a stand with so much that is yet to be known is ignorant (sorry, but it is) To know all that is knowable is impossible, and the further we explore this universe, the more this becomes absolutely clear. We are having difficulties defining all that Hubble has shown us, and the data is likely to take a generation to sort out.
If you really are extremely well schooled, you should be familiar with Occam's Razor. There is no reason for the concept you present.
Moreover, you may posit some Cosmic Intelligence, but to what purpose? Suppose I accept the idea that there exists a consciousness that runs through everything - what use is that to me? Should my behavior change? What can you tell me about it? Nothing, of course, so there is nothing more to be said.
Pointless. Of great interest to children of a certain age, but of no value otherwise.
Understanding it is vital to true understanding of all life. As "scientists" it behooves us to attempt to understand. Does ignorance comfort you? Basing one's belief on "theories" is no different than christian faith in a god who doesn't exist, and with this argument of yours continuing, I must consider that you are being purposely obtuse. Now how does that apply to Occam? Such belief systems are as a Sword of Damocles. Don't lose your purty lil' noggin.
Again you pretend that science is no different than religion, but that is plainly untrue.
Scienctific theories have brought us electricity, ipads, modern medicine, airplanes - these are not articles of faith, they are reality.
What has your religion ever done for anyone other than offer them false comfort?
The science consist of principles on which the Universe is already working in most cases even before the birth of man; these are only discovered by the science; in no way they have been invented first by man and that later Universe started working according to them.
Electricity, ipads, modern medicine, airplanes - these are real fruits from the joint efforts of religionist and the irreligionists; the Atheists have no sole proprietary right to them; why they deceive themselves and want to take credit to it?
That is not the point at all. This was stated because of the ridiculous insistence that science and religion are equivalent. Plainly they are not: the reality of science is all around us, but religion is only a fantasy in your mind.
Religion knows nothing and never has. Religion had only one foolish answer for every question: some god did it.
No god ever did anything. Science has shown us reality. Religion shows us nothing.
spiritually dead relies on nothing else. sp dead is sp dead and Occam's Razor has absolutely nothing to do with my presentation. Occam's Razor matters not one bit.
Science has nothing to do with it. culture has nothing to do with it, no amount of whining or denying has anything to do with it.
To be spiritually dead is death and not life. To be spiritually alive this is life and more abundantly.
Doesn't even matter if you disagree with bible or you wanna talk about who translated it. Not believing in Gods word is part of my presentation. If a person does not believe in the word of God it is because they are spiritually dead.
No way out, around, over, or under it.
No compromise, no bribe, no excuse.
The words that jesus speaks they are life and they are spirit. His people hear his voice and he knows who his are.
Where in my post did I take anything off the table? If you are "extremely well schooled," as you say, then you will have had lots of practice at reading closely and carefully. So, think back to that and then reread my post.
Excuse please Monseur Shadesbreath, You got caught in the middle between my comment and that to which I was commenting. The reply box doesn't always open in the same area. I agree w/ you. There is more to be gained here than ego-statements that produce nothing .A little mutual respect, from all parties could open a dialogue. This resembles the coliseum more than the forum. Why does everyone think that Stephen Hawking stops short of saying God doesn't exist? The atheists here must be WAY smarter than he is.
Have you read much of Hawking? I have. His writing makes it quite clear that he has always been afraid of offending the Church. He tiptoes around the obvious, unwilling to actually say the truth. He is a tortured person - it is all very sad.
Science afraid of religion? I think they disbanded the inquisition a couple days ago. What could the church do? Oh, yeah. The Albino guy. Stephen probably should have hidden that grail a little better. Defender of your faith.
Actually, it's that gravity thing. God could be hiding in there.
Hawking afraid of religion. Science is not a living thing, it cannot have fear. Scientists are only all too human; they can be afraid.
Einstein was somewhat afraid also. It has often been said that atheist are the most despised group in the U.S. Even today, people do disgusting things to known atheists. People have had rocks thrown at their cars for sporting a "Darwin Fish" for example. Ostracism, nasty comments - the good Christians make their hatred known.
Atheism Redemption from Guilt
The Atheist would be redeemed from the sin; the same way as would be the others; no difference; acceptance of the sin, repent it, resolve not to do it agains; ask forgiveness from the Creator-God Allah YHWH
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