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How are birth defects "intelligent design"?

  1. profile image0
    Baileybearposted 6 years ago

    <snipped graphic image>

    Search for 'birth defects' and you will find lots of disturbing images like this one - some look barely human

    1. Beelzedad profile image57
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well, it was obvious from the get go you weren't going to get any reasonable or rationale feedback from believers, and what was provided so far completely ignores reality and the facts.

      Did the believers take into consideration that other believers who don't "follow the path of "mother nature" or "evolution" also have children with birth defects?

      Do the believers take into consideration that the most pious and righteous amongst them also have children born with defects?

      No, they fabricate more fantasies to support their irrational beliefs and rather than attempting to deal with the issue, they simply sweep it under their holy carpets and resort to the myths of Adam and Eve, throwing up their hands in blissful ignorant defeat.

      It would actually be funny if it wasn't so sad.

      1. hanging out profile image58
        hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        we love our birth defects in godly ways. and we take them to disneyland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because they prayed for it.
        smile

        1. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          ????

    2. wilmiers77 profile image59
      wilmiers77posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      We live in a fallen world. All imaginable things can happen.

      1. profile image0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        that's a simplistic answer from someone that has a pre-scientific view of the world

        1. BDazzler profile image78
          BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Simplistic, yes ... but may I suggest that demanding that untrained theologians defend their faith with scientific accuracy is analogous to asking you to accept something on blind faith.

          A person trained in Algebra may be prepared to see trigonometry, but they probably can't handle second order differential equations.  You are asking valid questions.  The fact that not many people are prepared to give you satisfactory non-simplistic answers says as much about your education and path as it does about theirs ... it does not however, answer the questions.

          To give someone with your intelligence and scientific training  an intellectually valid argument, you may want to look into the writings of C.S Lewis and Dietrich Bonhoeffer ... they will not necessarily change your mind, but you will at least find a more analytical approach than you will likely find among more average church goers.

          I don't say this to insult the average church goer, but to acknowledge the integrity of your search.

          I'd also recommend reading a biography or two of each of them so you can get a context of their point of view.

          At the very least you'll see a more reasoned theological approach than you normally find.  To answer your question regarding the birth defect, you may find Lewis' "The Problem of Pain" to be intellectually interesting, even if you don't find yourself in full agreement with the  author's conclusion.

          1. profile image0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            in a nutshell, did CS Lewis and Dietrich still come back to the sin and freewill argument?

            A person doesn't need to understand the mechanisms of how birth defects & cancer etc happen but can accept that their doctor does ie it is not supernatural and it is not the fault of the person who it happened to.

            One thing that bothers me a lot about christianity, is it sees humans as worthless pieces of sh!t that need a supernatural power to rescue them from the pain and suffering that the supernatural being set up in the first place

            1. BDazzler profile image78
              BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Have you read them, or read about them?

              1. profile image0
                Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I read CS Lewis's fiction as a child (apparently allegory for bible stories)

                1. BDazzler profile image78
                  BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  His children's stories, while entertaining are not his scholarly work.  I loved the first couple of Narnia books, but as you say, those are children's books.

                  If you have drawn you conclusion so be it, but to write them off because you think you already know what they are going to say is not quite open minded.

                  Bonhoeffer was born into a family of scientific German aristocrats who would not let him publish anything short of the academically excellent and truly logical. He actually observed a great deal that you have also observed.

                  His letters from when he was in prison before he was executed by the Gestapo for his role in the attempt to assassinate Hitler are not exactly  the "turn or burn" stuff you're used to seeing.  He had a first hand look at true evil and was quite aware of the church's role in bringing Hitler to power. 

                  If you don't want to look, that's fine and after you've given it a good read and you're ready to write it off, that's fine too, but they aren't evangelists, they are thinkers.  You may  discover you have more in common with them than you think or maybe not. 

                  The real answer to your question is you can't put reality in a nut shell and you can't put Lewis and Bonhoeffer in a nut shell either.  The problem is that people tried to put God in a nutshell and when he doesn't fit neatly, they act like it's his fault for not fitting their in the box theology.

                  If I could have put it in a nut shell I would have smile If it will make you feel better a lot of fundamentalists think they were heretics.

                  1. hanging out profile image58
                    hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    bonehoeffer rocks!

                  2. profile image0
                    Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I looked up some of their quotes - sounds like they were thinkers

    3. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I see the image was promptly snipped.  There are plenty of images of birth defects on the net if anyone is brave enough to look. 
      Makes you wonder how a loving god can exist - the horror of giving birth to a child with its brain oozing out, or no brain at all, or legs fused together, or skull misshapen etc - and then knowing that the child will die.
      How can people live in their "god is so good" fantasy?

      1. Jerami profile image74
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If this life is all that there is, your point would be 100% valid.
          If this life is but a short span of time that exists between two spans of eternity (past and future)  then sorrow takes on a different meaning.

        1. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          and what meaning would that be - the hope that things would be made right?

          1. hanging out profile image58
            hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            merely that the lessons God teaches are not average lessons and hard to walk away from. Truth this life is both short and approximately unimportant. There is life in all living beings, life that belongs to God. All parents want completely whole, healthy children, that seems natural. Christlikeians are not natural we are spirit our path is spirit. Although it seems unfair in the natural that the child did not get to enjoy this earth we must recall that this earth is but a stepping stone.  While many B.D. children have short lifespans the messages and love and valuable lessons they teach to all are priceless, and no doubt, God takes them home (they get a new body and that's gonna excite them more than the hotties of this world now-no genitals or boobs lol)
            Did God shape them or did God allow it to happen? Well we were not there. Did God try to warn them? Did the doctor say not to have it. Does God interfere in the paths of the ungodly? Or by his mercy reverse their situation?
            If there were no birth defects then would that be proof of God? or would we lalala through life never having suspected?
            So many questions. I am not qualified to answer this never having to have faced this situation.

    4. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I see in another thread some found this post deeply offensive.  Why is it taboo to ask a question about something that really happens?  Do people like to live in their "the world is such a nice place" fantasy-land?

      1. tastybrain profile image59
        tastybrainposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Because people infuse their Faith with a sense of moral authority, undeniable metaphysical truth and ultimate goodness. For anyone to deny it both implies they (the believer) are credulous (which they vehemently deny) AND that the nay-sayer hates their God and everything good. People don't just identify with their Faith, they infuse their entire life's purpose into it. Without it, they believe, they would be nothing. Insignificant. Worthless. With it, they are god's chosen people. It's like telling an orphan their adopted parents are liars, only worse.

        1. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          good point, especially the last part

    5. profile image66
      Hell N0posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well, they sure as hell don't contribute to the survival of new creatures on an evolutionairy scale.

  2. profile image0
    Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago

    Intelligent design refers to the fact that God created mankind in His image.  He created the first man Adam perfectly, and Eve also.
    When they sinned, it opened the door to all kinds of sickness, disease, malformation and such.  This is illustrated in the Bible by stories of lepers and demon-possessed people and lame and blind, etc.
    I'm not saying that anyone sinned in order for that child to be malformed, because the Bible states differently!   What I am saying is that humanity, when allowed to follow the path of "mother nature" or "evolution" instead of adhering to the original will of God, is weak and imperfect.

    If that image is of a real child, let me tell you that God knows about it, living or dead, and Loves that child just as much as anyone else, and cares for its soul and spirit.  He will take care of his or her soul/spirit.


    But I have something else to say here.
    Last I saw, any images of children in or out of the womb that stands up for a child's right to life have been considered improper and were deleted from these forums.   So I hope that the image you posted gets deleted too, because it can be used by abortion proponents to further their agenda.

    1. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      this child would have died shortly after birth - it has no brain.
      The sin excuse is the one that creationists come up with?

      1. profile image0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/art … t-abortion

        If god really "knitted us together in the womb", it looks like he didn't do a very good job of many.  Also, it seems like a horendous punishment for eating a piece of fruit

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image62
        Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Baileybear, You have misunderstood many sciptures of the bible. When you understand the true meaning of God's word, it will make a big difference in your life, and you will recieve your breakthrough. Will you kindly explain how creationists come up with a sin excuse? The bible states when Adam and Eve sinned, it opened the door for imperfections in this world today. It's not fair to blame and falsely accuse God for any wrongdoing.

        1. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Eve ate a piece of fruit, so god punishes with horrors like cancer and birth defects - believers and non-believers alike - what a joke

          1. getitrite profile image79
            getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            What's really funny is that believers keep reiterating that Adam & Eve were perfect...but how could two perfect beings do such an imperfect thing.

            The answer is always, free-will.  But if they were perfect, they would have chosen the RIGHT(perfect)path, regardless of free-will.

            1. Stevennix2001 profile image83
              Stevennix2001posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              well to be fair, i think they're referring to the fact that they were physically perfect, and not necessarily perfect people in general that knew everything.

              1. getitrite profile image79
                getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                Just how insane is this gonna get?

                This is all BS.  Once a lie is told, it morphs into another lie, then another, then another.

                1. Stevennix2001 profile image83
                  Stevennix2001posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  okay, so by going by your logic are you saying that all good looking perfectly genetic people are perfect in every fathomable way?  either via morally and intellectually?  is that what your saying?  you have to remember just because someone is physically perfect, it doesn't make them smarter or have a higher moral value.

                  edit:  besides, im speaking hypothetically here.  sheesh, you don't need to be so rude about it.  roll

                  After all, the term perfectly designed could be referring solely to genetics alone

                  1. getitrite profile image79
                    getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    No, I'm just saying the whole crappy story of the Garden of Eden is childish, primitive nonsense...in other words, BS.

                    There was NO Adam & Eve.  That whole story is absurd.  Does that make sense?

              2. profile image0
                Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                perfection is a concept and subjective

            2. profile image0
              Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              exactly....and there is so much other illogical crap as well

            3. profile image68
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Christian get it wrong; only the Creator-God is perfect; man is apt to err as is said to err is human. The term perfect men is only a relative term; the Messengers Prophets (like Krishna, Moses, Jesus, Zoroaster, Buddha) are said to be perfect in the sense that they don't sin; they could make mistakes.

              1. getitrite profile image79
                getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                YOU didn't get it right either.

                1. profile image68
                  paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Express what you think to be the right with reasons and brilliant arguments, please.

                  1. getitrite profile image79
                    getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    There is no evidence for the existence of a god.  That includes whatever god you worship, too. 

                    And your god, which there is no evidence of, has not an iota of evidence that he created anything.

                2. hanging out profile image58
                  hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  you didn't get it right either LOL  smile

            4. Woman Of Courage profile image62
              Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              getitrite, God told Adam and Eve to not eat the forbidden fruit. He does not take away their right to choose right or wrong.

              1. getitrite profile image79
                getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                BUT...listen...if Adam & Eve were perfect, they would have chosen not to eat the fruit...Do...you...understand?

                The only free-will they had was to do all things perfectly, being that they were PERFECT.

                Lord help me!!!

                1. Woman Of Courage profile image62
                  Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I understand that you have chosen to ignore Stevennix messages to you. If you reread it and combine it with my post, maybe it will shine some light on you. If you still don't recieve the revelation, continue to call on the lord to help you. God bless!

                2. hanging out profile image58
                  hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I think we mistake perfect for complete.
                  Where does it say perfect?

                  Genesis 6:9 "These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God".

                  This is the first mention of the word perfect.
                  Strongs definition of perfect in genesis 6:9
                  1) complete, whole, entire, sound
                       a) complete, whole, entire
                       b) whole, sound, healthful
                       c) complete, entire (of time)
                       d) sound, wholesome, unimpaired, innocent, having integrity
                       e) what is complete or entirely in accord with truth and fact
                            (neuter adj/subst)

                  1. profile image0
                    Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    substituing complete for perfect doesn't justify all such horrific "punishments" either

          2. Woman Of Courage profile image62
            Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Adam and Eve punished themselves by their own disobedience and that is why we all suffer today. It's obvious that you choose to ignore the word sin.

            1. profile image0
              Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              seems very unfair that all animals suffer too

        2. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          it is not fair to give humans such horrific punishments, whether they believe or not

        3. getitrite profile image79
          getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It seems like she is not the only one who has misunderstood the bible.  Are you aware that there are over 30,000 denominations of this insanity?  Believers just can't seem to understand what God is trying to tell them. 



          Which of the 30,000 meanings should she accept to receive her breakthrough?




          So there was no imperfections during Neanderthal man's time here on earth, which was hundreds of thousands of years before Adam & Eve.




          Correct, because there is no God!

          1. hanging out profile image58
            hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ch … ominations

            lol what a lark and a lie about all the different denominations.. sure if you count the catholic church in brazil and the catholic church in nevada and the catholic church in Madagascar as 3 different denoms LOL. This whole page debunks this theory of thousands of different denominations, fact is there is only 23 denominational classifications and some of these are not christLIKEian.


            http://s3.hubimg.com/u/4022938_f248.jpg
            These are all Anglican  lol and there are more anglican.. pic was much bigger before i uploaded it....

            1. getitrite profile image79
              getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              THERE SHOULD ONLY BE...ONE

              When it comes to the word of God, there should only be one denomonation.  There should be, absolutely, no guessing.

              If we can't get it right, we miss out on eternal life, or maybe we're going to hell.

              1. hanging out profile image58
                hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                what makes you think there should only be one?
                   Matthew 7:13   Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
                  Matthew 7:14   Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

                John 14:6   Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

                It is simple... now go and do thou likewise..... and in about 2 hrs you will have the answer as to why there are many denominations LOL.

        4. tastybrain profile image59
          tastybrainposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It's not a misunderstanding, WomanofCourage. It's a logical challenge. Sin is disobedience to God. The supposed spiritual separation it causes between the sinner and God is a direct creation of God. As an omniscient and omnipotent creator, he has direct control over what he creates. To say that he created them perfectly (without sin but with free will) is to contradict oneself. Besides, without the knowledge of good and evil how could they truly and clearly perceive the consequences of their actions. "Perfect" under such conditions would mean ignorant, naive and blindly obedient. Is that your definition of perfect?

          1. profile image0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            sounds very logical.  I have a huge problem with the contradictions in the bible & the hypocrisy and lack of agreement of its followers

            1. hanging out profile image58
              hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              The important thing to remember about hypocrisy is that you yourself are not hypocritical.
              let me introduce you to irony.

          2. Woman Of Courage profile image62
            Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            tastybrain, How does it become a direct creation of God? You need to go back and read Genesis. The Lord God commanded the man, saying, of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. Genesis Ch. 2, 16-17. These scriptures clearly states God gave Adam and Eve knowledge of good and evil. This explains how they could truly and clearly perceive the consequences of their actions.

      3. profile image0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        humans are the cause and effect of these things, not creationalism.
        humans in-bred, humans changed the environment, humans injected other humans with vaccines --actual diseases-- altering the natural genetics in them. Humans added chemicals to food and water supplies causing free radicals and malformations.

        Do humans still think there is no consequence for their actions? That Creator is just going to "sweep all their oops under the rug"?

        Oh wait, they think they can just do whatever and blame the Creator for it or worse, blame someone else?

        Come now, after x-thousand years or 3 million (according to evolutionism) humans should have at least learned some measure of responsibility).

        The scary part: a single average human emits nearly 250,000 electrostatic (negative) frequencies per day in the form of words. Multiply that by 1 year (91.250 million); multiply that by 7 billion humans on the planet -- that amount of energy can cause 100 earthquakes registering a perfect 10 on the scale. BUT, that is nothing compared to the energy emitted by medical building in downtown LA...

        Humans never stop to realize the impact their words have, and even less how much impact their actions have.

        Sorry, just ranting I suppose...

        1. pennyofheaven profile image79
          pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Let alone their thinking!

    2. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/ … ild-birth/

      bible says that god created babies, so the sin excuse is crap

      1. hanging out profile image58
        hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        that page u refer to is not as good as the bible and allowing God to speak to you.. anyway.

        If God forms in the womb its still 9months to birthday. Anything can happen.

        1. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          "anything can happen" - so god is not involved?  that contradicts with bible verses that say god forms people in the womb.

          Forming a baby is a process involving a huge cell divisions - a small thing going wrong has a big impact.  Happens in other animals too - they get punished for sin too?

          1. hanging out profile image58
            hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            he forms and people abuse what happens after the forming is a dubious factor.

            1. profile image0
              Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              where does god stop forming?  after conception?  Ignorant people believe that only abuse results in birth defects

              1. hanging out profile image58
                hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                to form means to flick all the switches and then to let it grow into what it is supposed to ... when i form a painting i sketch the rudiments. When a house builders lays forms down they are not the completed structure.

                you need to look at words more closely and get an understanding of what they mean before you superimpose your inference of being correct. I say this for your edification.

    3. Stump Parrish profile image60
      Stump Parrishposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      //What I am saying is that humanity, when allowed to follow the path of "mother nature" or "evolution" instead of adhering to the original will of God, is weak and imperfect.//

      Interesting statement that brings this question to mind. If as you say original sin is partially responsible for birth defects, why do birth defects occur in primitive tribe that have no exposure to christianity? If it is true that a person who has no knowledge of christianity can't be sent to hell, why would these people have to suffer thru birth defects?

      Another question that comes to mind after reading your post is that you state that eve was created perfectly as was adam. How is a person created as a perfect representation of you god capable of sin? I was under the impression that eve corrupted adam's perfectness. If adam was created in god's image then god is also capable of sin. That makes your god no better than those preaching his words today, right?

    4. profile image68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Our friend is contradictory here; who on one hand says Adam and Eve were perfect men/woman, in the image of the Creator; on the other hand says Adam and Eve were sinful and hence responsible for all human sufferings and wrongs.

      In fact Christianity is wrong in almost all its dogmas.

      1. Rwritings profile image61
        Rwritingsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        What contradiction?  Adam and Eve were created perfect, in the Image of God.  It was afterwards after they had failed to trust God and disobeyed Him that they became sinful.   God did not desire for there to be sickness, deformity or any other suffering.  When sin entered into the World it caused cosmic caous which resulted in bacteria and virus that cause these maladies to come into existance.   No, I don't believe that people who are born with deformities are to blame.  They are victims of the consequences of the fall of humanity.

        You say that Christianity is wrong in almost all of its dogmas?  First of all when you say Christianity are you talking about Historical (the creation of the various sects, the Romanization political church, etc.) or are you talking about Biblical Christianity (the faith taught by Jesus and his Apostles)?  Oh, by the way did you know that the word Christian is used only once in the Bible?  I believe it is in the book of Acts.   In fact no where in the New Testiment did Jesus or any of the Apostles said, "Let's start a new religion and let's call it Christianity".   In the 11th chapter of Romans the Apostle Paul states, "Has God forgotten His people Israel whom He foreknew? God forbid, I myself am a Jew."

        Secondly, which dogmas are you talking about?  Is it from some Pope or Priest or is it from the Bible?   If you say the Bible where in the Bible did you find the dogmas that you think are wrong?  What book in the Bible, what chapter, what verse?  Did you actually read these wrong dogmas or are you just repeating what others have said?

        And thirdly, more Christians have been martyered for their belief in Christ in the last 100 years than in all of the centuries before.   If Christianity is not true and you live in a country that says being a Christian is a crime punishable by death why would you risk death by holding onto Christianity?

    5. skyfire profile image72
      skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Intelligent design refers to the fact ? Epic start to excellent holy speech. I wonder why rest of the para was even typed after this.

      lol

  3. Jerami profile image74
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    But every thing that we eat, drink, breath,smoke snort or shoot into our blood veins does affect out offspring for generations to come. 

       Every ill that mankind is faced with today is a product of our past behaviors.
       I have seen tomato plants produce their fruit under the ground after being exposed to toxic chemicals.
       That wasn't Gods fault.
       It was caused by a ruptured gas pipe that carried ammonia.

       If this created adverse effects on the plant life I would imagine that everyone that breathed it were affected in some way.
        We have no clue as to the MANY ways in which we have all been exposed to various toxins. Some even added to our foods.

    1. Stump Parrish profile image60
      Stump Parrishposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      //But every thing that we eat, drink, breath,smoke snort or shoot into our blood veins does affect out offspring for generations to come.//

      If god dropped acid, would he see people?

  4. BDazzler profile image78
    BDazzlerposted 6 years ago

    The term "defect" itself implies deviation from design. If evolution is true, then it's just a mutation to be celebrated or perhaps studied ... maybe an opportunity to have the gene pool change to the next big thing ...

    But there is an agreement even among the most intellectually dishonest among us, that this is a sad thing and in some ways it "should not be".

    The should/and should-not feeling implies some sort of intent. There are things that are right and there are things that are wrong. What those things are, reasonable people can disagree reasonably.  But that image is heart breaking.  For all of us.

    The biblical concept of "sin", BTW is not the "you did something bad so I will punish you" interpretation of current western Christianity.

    The Greek word, "Sin" means to "miss the mark" it is not always deliberate, it is any imperfection, and doesn't always have the social morality implied by current interpretation  ... so, in this case, if environmental pollutants created the defects would be the "sin".

    It's not always punishment, it's often consequence. The cause/effect with moral under/over - tones is a more modern construct.

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      How is your stupid question proof of intelligent design. Read up on the pollutants MAN has chosen to dump into our only place to live. Bring lots of paper, or limber up those fingers, because the list is extremely long, especially some of the chem names. Now see what med problems can be caused by said chems. Now, bring up a PDR. That is the "Physicians Desk Reference". Here is listed all the drugs we us. every single one. Now look up all the side effects from all those man-made drugs. Once you ingest, or apply anything, ANYTHING, you wash it off, or pass it from the body in two different ways. Both involve the toilet (Loo). I wonder why we all don't have birth defects. Maybe we do. Have you looked around lately?

      1. J.R. Smith profile image58
        J.R. Smithposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        One might consider that we lived on a sin-cursed planet. Everything from weeds to diseases are in this curse.That should not be considered in the debate of design. (Genesis 1-5)

      2. BDazzler profile image78
        BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I'm not following your logic, other than the fact that you called me stupid, I'm not seeing a lot in your argument I disagree with. In fact, most of your post supports my point.

      3. profile image0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        yes, there are lots of toxins in the world, and radiation from naturally occuring substances that can alter DNA eg the sun, radiactive rocks (plus all the chemicals that humans make). 
        So does god not get the blame for making the sun triggering skin cancer?  Radioactive rocks that change DNA?

        Scientists understand the mechanisms of disease/inheritance/DNA mutations etc. 
        Prior to science, people believed that things they didn't understand (rainbows, extreme weather, lightning, disease etc) were from a supernatural cause. Religionists today still believe so.

        The bible was written when people had no scientific understanding, and it shows.  They saw imperfection in the world and came up with the concept of sin.

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image62
          Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          God is who came up with the word sin. People did not come up with the concept of sin. You seem to interpret things in your own way, and blow the true meaning out of proportion.

          1. profile image0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            how is it out of proportion?  I am merely stating how christian theology is so hard to swallow

            1. Woman Of Courage profile image62
              Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I am referring to your last sentence. " They saw imperfection in the world and came up with the concept of sin. It speaks about sin in the bible. God is who inspired the scriptures. There is no way people made up the concept of sin.

              1. profile image0
                Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                your last sentence - you sound so sure of yourself, yet to make such a claim is ridiculous

                1. Woman Of Courage profile image62
                  Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes I am sure. I have confidence in God's word, and his word never fails.

                  1. profile image0
                    Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    just because you believe something is true, doesn't actually make it true

              2. Beelzedad profile image57
                Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                This isn't even an argument. Men have come up with far more interesting, complex and contrived concepts than sin. LOL! smile

              3. pylos26 profile image74
                pylos26posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Women o. c…The continued use of bible scripture is a “lame reference” to bolster arguments about religious matters or anything else…Is there enough courage within to realize that bible has no credibility, nothing but fabrications and lies gathered and bound by illiterate people?
                What is the problem here, are we deft?

                1. Woman Of Courage profile image62
                  Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  God bless you!

                2. Rwritings profile image61
                  Rwritingsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Why shouldn't Woman of Courage use Bible scripture to talk about religious matters?  Your point is not logical.  Have you ever read the Bible?  What fabrication and lies are you refering to?  What book in the Bible, what chapter and what verse; or are you just repeating what you have heard?

                  For centuries even up to the present day in many countries it is a criminal offense punishable by death to read the Bible.  People have tried to destroy it yet it survives.  Malcom Muggery and C.S. Lewis were once Atheists who tried to dispprove the Bible and they decided to become Christians.  Could the Bible survive that long if it was a bunch of lies and fabrications gathered by illiterate people?  I doubt it besides illiterate people can't read or write!

        2. hanging out profile image58
          hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          nope.
          In my world everything is a test. If i get cancer God can cure it or he will take me home, either way Its all good.
          In the meantime what about ezekiel. He had to flee from jezebel, she was killing the prophets of God. Does God get the blame for that? God told eze to get to the brook cheron and god will feed thee there with food the ravens bring. Does God get the blame for lack of a comfy couch.. and whats with the raven food... Do i have to draw water from the stream myself.. Does God get the blame?

          This line of thinking is terrible.. bad.. and only shows your intense need for a way to shift blame from whatever onto God and on that day you will shout a huge hurray! I sense a holy spirit in da house!

          1. profile image0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            you judge my thinking as bad.   Bad because I ask the hard questions that blind believers can't answer?

            how many christians that have cancer seek medical treatment?  Sounds like they really aren't really keen being "taken home."

            1. hanging out profile image58
              hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              But how many do you know that haven't? I think you make an inference here. Canadian religion is different than american religion and african is different again.. people in china get killed for mentioning jesus is their lord, yet should we diss them for seeking medical treatment, if indeed they do. Are you talking about christiLIKEians or just sunday church goers. Some people have huge faith in God and others pray when something goes wrong.

              The only important question is not what OTHERS do, but what do YOU do.
              If one day you are christian and you develop cancer then ask yourself this question, until then it is an unfair question.

              1. profile image0
                Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                just my observation that christians will have more faith in doctors than a supernatural being eg for surgery, IVF,

                There have been plenty of children die because religious folk refused to get medical help for their children

                1. Woman Of Courage profile image62
                  Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  This does not apply to me. I believe in going to the doctor for medical help, and put my faith in God to work through the doctor's hands.

                  1. profile image0
                    Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    that's what most christians concede, I would imagine - but I expect the outcomes would be the same whether a believer or not

                2. hanging out profile image58
                  hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  you're still inferring. A) that they are mighty people of faith, with unshakable faith even in the eyes of sickness. B) (and maybe i infer here, but) That many who refuse bloodtransfusions have died ... I forget what denom that is.

                  I have an alternate story you might like to add to your library. A brother sick of a strange intestinal breakdown, prayed as to what he should do, go to the doctor and have the surgery or leave it to God to heal.
                  God said have the surgery
                  and the brother brought a young man to jesus while in hospital. A man who otherwise could not have reached i suppose, or this man was approachable being in distress.

                  The more fingers that point at God are 3xs the number pointing back at all times. Oh yah, the brother was fine, surgery went superwell and the saved person i believe he said attended the same church as he.

                  1. profile image0
                    Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    ah the pointing the finger crap that my mother spouts lol
                    surgeries don't have better outcomes with prayer IMO - I know a christian that died on operating table (she was morbidly obese which would have made her high risk)

      4. Stump Parrish profile image60
        Stump Parrishposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        DD, I didn't take this to be a serious question, did you?

      5. profile image0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        who are you saying has a stupid question?  The OP?  I don't think birth defects are support of intelligent design at all

        1. hanging out profile image58
          hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          no they are not. In the beginning everything was created "very good".  I am sure if there were few abnormalities, if any... over the years and indeed millennium, i would think that Gods creation, being dominioned over by man, that many things are far from the initial intelligent design.
          This is the way things go when sin enters the picture.

          But if you look at the very good specimens there is intelligent design still.

          1. profile image0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            this tart that ate an apple (or peach or whatever fruit it was) - stuffed it up for all of creation?  ie get 2 headed turtles etc (which are siamese twins), mozzies that spread disease etc etc

  5. secularist10 profile image87
    secularist10posted 6 years ago

    If the Bible is to be believed, God isn't a very intelligent designer. That's probably why he gets REALLY mad a lot and kills everybody whenever he realizes he screwed up.

    So if the Bible is correct, then God is not intelligent. But if God is intelligent, then the Bible is not correct. Yet another crippling self-contradiction inherent in Christianity.

    1. profile image68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this
    2. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I'm researching a hub about unintelligent design

    3. hanging out profile image58
      hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      secularist10
      Not a good designer... theres a sun up there what shines warmth and stuff and never has to be refulled.. We are on a beautiful planet, 100% recycles itself and grows food for us. There is beauty to behold beyond belief on earth and in the universe. The colors God used are psychologically perfect! Could you imagine red grass or an aluminum sky, with yellow trees and purple dirt... the colors are calming and serene, restful INTENTIONALLY.

      God did not screw everything up. Man did. Lets say you have an ant farm and the ants aren`t happy and are fighting and making a mess of the nice ant farm you wanted to have. So you set them free. If you don`t set them free then you become a warden, constantly breaking up the fights and Lording over them waving a big stick. in essence a jailer. Your ants are not happy warring all the time but in the wild perhaps a larger domain you can instruct them how to get to that peaceful state you wanted them to be in the first place.

      How do you equate unintelligence and the bible together? I ruin supposedly crippling contradictions about the bible all the time. You are going to have to explain this to me otherwise your post is just vain fluff.

      1. profile image0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        actually in Australia, there is a lot of red dirt; many trees are yellow (especially in autumn), and a keen observer will notice that mountains seem more blue/purple with distance (plus sunsets often have purple).

      2. profile image0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        there's too many contradictions to list.  Here's a compiled list - take your pick

        http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ … ncies.html

  6. Jerami profile image74
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    "IF" there is no higher power that some people call God?

      What then would have caused all of these birth defects?
      What then causes all of the suffering in the world?
      If there is no god?  who's fault is it that there are children starving to death in this world?
      Your answer to these questions is the correct!

       The answer to these questions does not prove one way or the other the existence of a God.

       It does however Make many peoples concepts of who or what that God is,said or does  hard or impossible to believe.

       So I think that it is only   concepts   that we are really debating.

    1. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think secularists post sums it up well - in essense

      either take the bible literally and conclude god is not intelligent;
      or if god is intelligent, the bible cannot be taken literally

      or god doesn't exist at all

      1. Jerami profile image74
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The only thing that I would add to your comment is that we gotta keep our interpretations out of it also.

            Then I would agree.

        1. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          how can one keep their interpretions out of it?  eg the adam & eve thread - some christians say it is definitely literal; others say metaphor

          1. Jerami profile image74
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I guess here lies a problem.
            How to define what interpretation is?

            Is the definition like saying.. This is the way that I understand it?

            Or is the definition of interpret ..  This is the way that I understand it IF I CHANGE   this or that?
               I don't think it is correct to follow the second definition.

               There are OFTEN different ways of understanding a statement without obliterating the original statement.
               We can  ALWAYS change the intended message by just changing the wording just a little.

            To define  Misinterpret is much easier!  To impose a meaning that is not implied and/or negates that that is implied.
              I'm playing Webster on that one. Call my definition an interpretation if you wish.

      2. hanging out profile image58
        hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        either take the bible literally and conclude god is not intelligent;
        or if god is intelligent, the bible cannot be taken literally

        or god doesn't exist at all

        LOL thats the best you can do.... ignore all of what i say.
        Good grief.
        you are just searching for answers that back you up and are not open to learning or understanding.

        1. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          well, nothing is said here that is very convincing - believers arent' even in agreement

  7. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    Birth defects are caused by many a reason, none of which has anything to do with a intelligent design or a gods doing.

    1. Jerami profile image74
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      absolutely correct.

        Do ya think that if I grew up eating nothing but leather, rope, and milk weed that my children would grow up healthy wealthy and wise?



      Or would their circumstances be Gods Fault?

  8. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    The acne medication Acutane  . Before they caught it. Young woman taking it that got pregnant had extremely deformed   children . They were termed flipper baby's. it was awful.

    1. Jerami profile image74
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes  but is easier for some people to blame  God

        Listening to drug commercials and they tell ya all the things that they can sometimes cause often sounds worse than the ailment that they are supposed to alleviate (not cure) makes me wonder why they bother.

         Even if only 1% of the people taking the drug has these side effects ...  When a million people take the drugs there WILL be a lot of people with those conditions.  Put them in the Super Dome and there will be standing room only.

         And no one remembers how it happened???

  9. getitrite profile image79
    getitriteposted 6 years ago

    It appears that God is not responsible for ANYTHING, but He, somehow, gets full credit for being all- powerful, omniscient, and for creating everything, including reality.

    If God created this reality, how could He not be responsible for the mistakes His creations make?  God had a choice.  He chose to make man disobedient, but still gave man free-well.

    Is this madness or what?

    1. Jerami profile image74
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Kinda like the CEO of Ford motor Co.

      AND   Henry Ford is resposible for every Drunk Driver fatality.

      1. getitrite profile image79
        getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Could you please explain the analogy you have presented?
        I fail to see the comparison.  Thanks.

        1. Jerami profile image74
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You say that if a God created man that he is responsible for everything that his creation does.

             Henry Ford created the Ford Motor company. And Ford Motor co. makes the cars.  By your logic;  That would make him responsible for everything that we do with his creations.
             If a drunk driver is in a fatal crash driving a Ford, it is then Henry's fault.

              The CEO gets credit for the success of the company and his salary is enormous and he gets a bonus when doing well.

            When the co. does poorly.  it isn't his fault, it is someone else's' fault such as the economy.

            By your logic.

          1. getitrite profile image79
            getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



            No I did not say that God created man, I said God created REALITY.  Do you, now, understand?




            No, this is your logic, dictated by your faulty comprehension of my statement.




            What?!!! How does this compare to God creating REALITY?





            What?!!!  How does this compare to God creating REALITY?



            No, by your logic.  You should try to actually understand what I'm proposing, instead of blindly defending nonsense.

    2. hanging out profile image58
      hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      getrite: are you responsible for your childrens actions once they pass the age of 30?  If not then how is god responsible for what actions mankind takes

      1. getitrite profile image79
        getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



        NONSENSE.  How can you compare me to God?  I did not create my children, unless you consider the act of sex to be creation.

        And if you do consider a human being having sex the same as an omnipotent, omniscient, ubiquitous deity creating a human being, I think your thinking is very narrow and child-like.

        You contradict your God in many of your posts.

        1. Jerami profile image74
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You need to write a book titled Hundred and One ways to avoid answering a question.

             Never mind I'll do it.  All I gotta do is run through a couple hundred of your posts; that oughta be enough.

            Why don't ya answer the mans question??

          1. getitrite profile image79
            getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Your view of reality is so narrow, that you seem to not even know when a question has been answered.

            Good luck with that book.  I hope you know how foolish you are going to look writing a book based on your denial of reality.

            In other words, his question was thoroughly answered.

            Therefore your reply is ABJECT nonsense.

            1. hanging out profile image58
              hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              LOL getrite the bullying act has no effect on me. I have not contradicted myself at all. I am able to give a bunch of different viewpoints concerning topics and if you think i have contradicted myself, prove it dont just beak off about something you may well have misconstrued.

              I do not compare you to God be sure of that. lol. I am drawing a comparison. If you want to be mad at god for creating you, which he didnt. he only allowed the two seeds from the parents to form you in the womb, the rest of the shaping you did yourself. You created you, nobody else, God will reshape you if you let him.. but thats a different story.

              I was responding to this post
              ``If God created this reality, how could He not be responsible for the mistakes His creations make?  God had a choice.  He chose to make man disobedient, but still gave man free-well.
              Is this madness or what?``

              I don``t know what church ``formed`` you but you had better believe they were way to leagalistic.. now to blame god for mans action is not going to help when the question is asked by God, ``what have you done with my son``. the answer above will not hold water.
              I will infer here, that you are still thinking the sin was choosing a piece of fruit. But it wasn`t you see, God asked àdam where are you`` representing that God was spending more and more time away from AnE because they were sinning more and more.  You may not have read my posts about, mankind not being in a punished situation (God made a simple way to get to him called salvation) and that we are in a positional situation.. AnE had babies who had babies, who had babies, outside of the garden (which was Gods first choice for them) who had babies, etc, etc,, who had you, outside of the garden.


              Now put away your anger and give us your happy face!

  10. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    My idea of god isnt any of those things.

    1. Jerami profile image74
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That is good!  Just because you know who your uncle is ;
      Ya don't have to know what kind of car he drives or how many nickels he has in his pocket.

         But if your uncle is going to give them away you can hope he has enough to go around.

      1. getitrite profile image79
        getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/dashrock11/question-mark3a.jpg

        1. Jerami profile image74
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          that is right  study on it

            I gotta go get some work done ...  Daylight is burning.

          1. getitrite profile image79
            getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            No matter how much study one commits to nonsense, it still comes up nonsense. 

            When you get back, your statement will still be absurd, because any statement in support of believing in Bronze Age myths is insane.

      2. getitrite profile image79
        getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



        This is not an analogy from wisdom, but, instead, a narrow view of the attributes attibuted to your God.  You have no idea what omnipotent, omniscient, or ubiquitous really means.

        In other words, this is NOT deep thinking, but is rather shallow, and elementary.

  11. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    say if there is a god and it creates a glass for you to drink from. and then you go running with the glass and break it. just because said god made the glass doesn't imply any type of warranty  for misuse of that glass. you broke the glass not a god
    lol

  12. skyfire profile image72
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    Check this fact.

    Universe > Galaxies >Galaxy (Milky way) > Our Solar system > Earth.

    So entity which created this universe came down all the way from this huge universe to earth to make a virgin pregnant just to send his son to guide humanity ?

    What this intelligent entity is smoking ?

    1. hanging out profile image58
      hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Gen 1:1 ``in the begining God created the heaven and the earth``

      Safe to assume this heaven is not where God lives, that would have already been created. This heaven seems connected with the earth... so this narrows your view to this:
      Our Solar System......Earth. I may throw in milky way but i do not feel prompted to.

      This entity put man on earth in a garden to have them live happily everafter.
      I really don`t feel like enlightening you on the whole bible.
      Our terms of size may be totally irrelevant in the spiritual realm. True spirit beings may even be able to adjust their size, i do not know i am specualting here.  But read my hub on ``universal size, red herring 2` it might show you that size has nothing to do with our worthiness.

      And as for the rest of the universe, How do we know that isn``t a work of God from ages ago. The genesis account can be reconciled to only applying to our earth and our heaven. The rest is gods canvass all through the ages and he does marvellous works.

      lol have to... what are you smokin

  13. skyfire profile image72
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    By biblical logic, if all knowing, almighty created a life as per his will then whatever actions that life performs fall withing the probability that almight already figured out. It's same like puppet. So no matter what action that life takes for survival is fault of almighty. Almighty can anytime correct his action just to modify that life. If bible can claim so then we can go ahead and easily blame almight as well.

    1. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      You make sense.  Unlike some others on here that are delusional enough to think that nonsense makes sense.

      1. hanging out profile image58
        hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry had to mention his obvious flaws since you upgraded him lol

    2. hanging out profile image58
      hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      By biblical logic, if all knowing, almighty created a life as per his will then whatever actions that life performs fall withing the probability that almighty already figured out.
      ( talking about Gods B plan here)

      It's same like puppet.
      (No puppet do not have free will to choose)

      So no matter what action that life takes for survival is fault of almighty.
      (wrong and if you rob a store and the police put your parents into jail or your parents can be heard to say, where did we go wrong.... we both know this not true. The parents did not go wrong, the child did.)

      Almighty can anytime correct his action just to modify that life.
      (he can but then a) whats the point of having the creation if you are just going to turn  them into puppets. b) where is Love. Living beings just zapped into obedience do not love, indeed we have examples of that today.. oh my life is going well i have all i need, why drag god into it. In order to enjoy this life on this planet we need our flesh, touch, taste, smell, and there will always be temptations to do wrong, unless god makes us puppets.. you play with a puppet and see how long it amuses you.)

      If bible can claim so then we can go ahead and easily blame almighty as well.
      (nope, ya can`t and the bible doesn`t claim so.)

  14. J.R. Smith profile image58
    J.R. Smithposted 6 years ago

    Wow. Forum got off subject,hunh? They have never found the information that tells cells when to seperate. cells make up everything, yet they cannot find it's source of direction. There has to be some information or authority that tells cells when its time to seperate. Is God behind every cell division or are we missing something in the way of biology?

    1. skyfire profile image72
      skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No. Some people are not reading biology books to begin with... before making claim from emotional bias.

      1. J.R. Smith profile image58
        J.R. Smithposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Biologists (who do read biology books) haven't found what determines cells to seperate.

        1. skyfire profile image72
          skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Sane biologist don't make conclusion with "Who" separates the cells after reading about evolution.

          1. J.R. Smith profile image58
            J.R. Smithposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Don't bring theology into it. It is an unanswered question.That's all. I tried to phrase it with neutrality.

            1. skyfire profile image72
              skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I didn't. You did. Check your reply for emotional bias for "god". Obviously you have no idea about "evolution" to even understand speciation.

              1. Druid Dude profile image61
                Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                skyfire. Would you like to see the proof of, not just God, but how time travel works?

                1. Druid Dude profile image61
                  Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  In reply to the forum: Since when is dumping toxins into your rivers, onto your land, and into your air proof of intelligent design. Don't look at God. We did it. If intelligent design is somehow proof of something like, maybe existing. Then we do not exist anymore than God does. Trouble is, I'm looking right at him. Looks smart to me. I know this, that when everyone gets the joke, you will soon determine that ....Moses couldn't have thought any of this up.

                2. skyfire profile image72
                  skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't mind reading creationism BS sometimes. So bring it on.

                  1. Druid Dude profile image61
                    Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Sky, IF as you say God doesn't exist. THEN WHO'S fault is it? You deny when I say it's man's fault, by saying some doo-doo about creationism. Actual, I consider myself more of a DISESTABLISHMENTARIANIST.

    2. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      it's not off-topic - things going wrong with cell-divisions results in birth defects.  so does god do it then?

  15. getitrite profile image79
    getitriteposted 6 years ago

    God dunnit!

    1. hanging out profile image58
      hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      in the begining God dunnit!

      now your gettingITrite.

  16. inspiredbydg profile image58
    inspiredbydgposted 6 years ago

    Birth defects if you look at them as intelligently designed consider a better way to look at intelligent defects as a design.

    Look at them from another place; how about that there is life of all forms.

    All forms get a chance to live this life some short term some long term but all forms get an opportunity.

    The part of us that gets our attention is that the formation of a human that doesn't seem to have the same forms as others.

    Their are those who don't get to experience life when we think they deserve it; but there are a constant 6 billion human beings on the planet.

    If we look at other life forms we can see that we are the least amount that share this planet.

  17. csmcmanus profile image60
    csmcmanusposted 6 years ago

    Birth defects help teach us lessons.

    If we went around in the world and everything was perfect, then would we grow and learn? There has to be a problem for us to work on. Much like diseases, birth defects give us the opportunity to explore and understand more. Whether it be through outer exploration of someone else, or inner reflection into oneself.

    1. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think all crappy things in life can be opportunities to learn & grow

  18. aguasilver profile image88
    aguasilverposted 6 years ago

    Yep the Einstein clone ignored your stated example in your post once again!

    "reject data that does not fit your theory with an arrogant dismissiveness. "

    How true that is,,,,

    1. Beelzedad profile image57
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So, what you're saying is that because he made the claim, it must be true. LOL!

      Perhaps, you folks are referring to this:

      "One time a skeptical minister was said to have visited
      Edison's laboratory, supposing the phonograph was a fraud based on ventriloquism. He was invited to record himself reciting Scripture on a sheet of tinfoil Edison had prepared beforehand, with the following result:

      He that cometh from above is above all ("Who are you?"); he
      that is of the earth ("Oh, you can't preach!") is earthly and
      speaketh of the ("I think you're a fraud!") earth; he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he has seen and heard
      ("Louder, old pudding head!") that he testifieth; and no man
      receiveth his testimony ("Oh, go and see Beecher!"). (Scientific
      An~ericarl 1878b)

      This arrangement was nicely ambiguous: was Edison disparaging
      the minister, or was the phonograph itself doing so?"

      https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/bits … sequence=1

      smile

  19. BobbiRant profile image59
    BobbiRantposted 6 years ago

    Since humans are Not perfect, things sometimes go wrong in the development of some people, but they are no less human than you and I are.  If you have a bread pan with a big dent in it, do you think you will get anything but a loaf of bread formed with the dent in it also?  Since we are not perfect, things happen when cells form, sometimes, but did God cause it? No! Funny how we are quick to Blame God for things that go wrong yet very Slow to credit Him for things that do go right.  How ungrateful we humans are.

    1. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I actually see that believers here doing the opposite - god gets all the credit and abolutely no blame.  Humans get the blame 100%.

      1. hanging out profile image58
        hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        yep... because we see things as they truly are. We see god working to correct mans mistakes, which i believe are uncorrectable unless God comes down and shows himself. Then we can all live in puppet land as god slaps our hands every time we want to sin. And we will sin because really, doesnt that `keep off the grass` sign just make ya wanna walk on it. Doesnt that hot married woman still make your blood boil or that hot husband who does everything right and makes a pile of money, oooh to get him alone .... or getting a 10,000 cheque donated to the company of which you are chief treasurer look tempting just for an extra 1,000, SLAP! welcome to Gods world... now do it right!!!! put all the money in the account! welcome to puppet land, after 1,000 years of that God just might be thinking, ì should just kll all the sinners who wont learn and stick with the rest`. lol.
        there is no hellish torment forever and ever because God is dispensing the way he does things now with us and because our eyes have not seen he does not glee in torture. God understands what is like to be human in jesus christ. I have spiritually seen God, not physically but christians know when the father has moved by his power. We are not without proof because we first believed in Him.
        Matthew 13:16   But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
        John 20:29   Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have NOT seen, and yet have believed.

        i can`t blame god for anything but i do give him credit for both the good and the bad. Fathom that.

  20. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    "In the beginning" what created god? smile

    1. hanging out profile image58
      hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      where did sperm come from?

      1. Beelzedad profile image57
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        From a collection of soft dangling objects about arms length down the male body.  smile

 
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