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Does God exist?

  1. 0
    Gordon544posted 6 years ago

    A question, probably asked many times, but I will ask it again to garner an idea of religious belief...

    ....Does God exist?

    I think we have all been through enough pain, seen enough suffering to seriously doubt whether there is such a thing as God....what's the concensus...? His he for real?


    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/4122647_f248.jpg

    1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
      Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes God exist. smile

      1. 0
        prayersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I agree.  God definately exists! smile

    2. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      ...what is this god thing you speak of?
      There is no defintion of "it" in any monotheistic scripture except in the form of opinion and conjecture.
      Before I can entertain your question, I must know what "it" is.
      The question cannot be answered by educated "thinkers," until "it" is "literally" defined.
      If "it" can't literally defined, then the question is meaningless.
      Qwark

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Too late for prays, Jesus talks more about hell than Heaven

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          uhhh...Sorry to call you on this Castle. Read what God created in Genesis, no where is a place called hell created. Hell is created by us. Look around. When God was finished he said it was all good. Don't you believe him? You say you do, but your understanding says you shouldn't spread BS. Which is what you are doing. GET IT? Jealous stupidity can blind. Don't retreat into darkness. I am the door, beyond is the Light. Open the door with your key. It is inside you, right next to the Grail.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            qwark

            I don’t want to come off arrogance but since you have presented many negative untruths about me on this forum, It’s SHOW TIME!!!

            If you think all education boils down to second and third hand me down academic teaching, you are narrowly and sadly mistaken. Show me anything you have achieved at a world class standard or a great contribution to humanity. I’m no better or worst than the next guy and that include you, if that offend your ego, so be it. Very few artist of any kind in the world can say they had a professional and successful sound artist life for more than 35 years as I’ve had.  Before the arts I was a world class athlete in swimming and wrestling. Won 5 sand sculpture world championships, including 172 international artist awards plus 21 Natural structure World Records among 6 continents. Traveled 94 countries worked with top organization in the world such as Clients Museum of Civilization, Walt Disney, MGM, IBM, in Theme parks, Museums, Films, and Festivals world wide. Covered by top Multi media world wide. Taught fine arts at several international workshops events and at a few art colleges’ Coach or train dozens of artists to several artist world Championship including 3 women, head to head with men. Most delighted in raw pioneering a few new artist industries, the art work on my hubs, was created by me.

            Show me your goods, or drop many of these labels and negative comments.

            1. qwark profile image60
              qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Castle:
              If all you have offered is true, congrats!!!
              Talent has nothing to do with the question: "Does god exist."
              I have presened no untruths! How'd ya come up with that decision?
              I just tell it as I see it. I offer my thoughts honestly and bluntly. They are just my thoughts.
              The way you responded this time, in a way that has nothing to do with the forum question, is proof to me that you can't/won't offer an answer using reason and or logic...or because English is not your native language, you don't understand the question.
              What is it that you want from me? My life has been dedicated to me and mine. I couldn't give a rats a** about contributing to humanity in any way but to bring my son up to be able to cope with life on a planet that will take his life in a "New-York-minute" if he screws up.
              We all have differing talents, aptitudes and thoughts.
              Those who allow myth and superstition to guide their lives, have historically, proven themselves to be a deadly bunch.
              If you fit this bill, then I have to base my understanding of you. on the history of your beliefs.
              Today? there are thousands of monotheistic sects that will kill you in the name of this imagined god thing. Believers in it, swear I'm wrong, but their history is indicative of them "speaking-with-forked-tongue."
              Approx 1/2 of the human population proclaims the existance of that which they can only Imagine. To me, they represent the lesser evolved of an infant human species.
              Qwark

              I'm heading for the gym. Chat with ya when I get back in a couple hours.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I do not subscribe to any monotheistic sects or belong to any group. My idea's of God is personal and it works, that pretty well sums it all up.

                I married a Mexican megalomaniac who totally brainwashed my daughter and used religion as a tool in many of our court battles. The only thing I could do is send my daughter love and be a good example. It turns out she is following many of my foot steps to be an artist, and she gets,  if you do not love what you do, you can not master life.

                She moving in with me to learn more, what an honor, I wrote a hub on her.

                Good luck with your son, he could do better than just cope, he may surprise and thrive

                1. qwark profile image60
                  qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks Castle:
                  My son has "blessed" me with 2 wonderful grandkids and he has owned and operated his own business for many, many yrs. I couldn't be prouder.
                  My heart goes out to you and your daughter.
                  I hope she turns out to be a strong woman who does not need to depend upon any man.
                  Fingers crossed for you and her!
                  Qwark    :-)
                  Thanks for "chatting" with me.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    That's more like it

            2. 60
              ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              What's your world class wrestling background?

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Was on the Alberta University amateur wrestling team in the 70s. Did International tournament in many part North America, and Centro America. Beat two former Olympian too qualified for trails to the Olympic team. Found my true desire in the arts rather than sports.

                1. 60
                  ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Is Alberta University D1, or do you have a different system in Canada?

                  1. 60
                    ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I guess I should just come right out and say that doesn't sound like "world class" to me.

        2. qwark profile image60
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Castle:
          Oh yes I find your comments to fit those of the unlearned, religious bigot.
          May I say that, without you suggesting I be banned?
          I'm just being bluntly truthful.
          What you said in this comment: " Too late for prays, Jesus talks more about hell than Heaven"
          is proof of what I say.
          No one "knows" what this jesus said. NO ONE!
          All who say: "jesus said" have not done their homework and are speaking as uneducated bigots.
          The NT was not ready for promulgation for almost 300 yrs after this jesus alledgedly died. It is naught but corrupted stories passed down thru hundreds of generations.
          The NT is just heresay. It is not credible.
          I know immediately if a "hubber" has done his homework by his responses about this jesus guy.
          Qwark

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Qwark

            I strongly believe in freedom of speech, I've been ban for it in two cities and one country for it. My skin is so thick, why in the world would I suggest to anyone, for you to be ban.

            What make me Religious bigot, because I don't follow the lord. My brother is a pastor I am force to do my home work and interested in getting a closer understanding of him. Belonging to no group makes me non bias.

            The actual word Hell appears more frequently than the actual word heaven

            There are over 162 references in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) that warn of Hell. Over 70 of these references are attributed to Jesus.
            The word Hell appears frequently in: Mark (3 occurrences), Matthew (12), Luke (3), Acts (2), Revelation (4). Jesus should be the greatest soul winner of all time.

            However, more souls end up in hell than in heaven. I can’t post all of them, and don’t believe me, check out for your self.
            ,

            1. qwark profile image60
              qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Castle:
              You just made my point to a much greater degree than I could have.
              I agree with your attitude toward freedom of speech. TY
              Qwark

    3. gingerka profile image60
      gingerkaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Oh, He exists, creation itself screams it out.  Stop and think logically, could our universe just appear out of nothing and from nothing.  But God, if He truly is God, could out of nothing speak it into being.

      On an individual level though, I have seen way too many atheists seemingly make a death bed conversion.  There is an old lyric from a song" I know there is no heaven, but I pray there is no Hell" that basically sums it all up

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Really? How many atheist's death beds have you been at? LOLOLOLOLOL

        1. hanging out profile image62
          hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          as many as you
          But the christian death beds and funerals are funner
          LOLOLOLOLOL

      2. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        roll

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Just stop and think Ray - it is logikal there MUST be a god innit. Cain't  be nuthin else. Hell is reel.

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            lol lol lol

            I've weighed all the evidence available, including the scripture of many different religions and still come to the same conclusion.

            It's all lies. smile wink

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Total garbage. And the ones pushing this nonsense do not even understand how to get the good stuff that is there out. Pathetic. sad

              1. Cagsil profile image83
                Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hey Mark, I'm not even sure there is a word in any language that comes close to describing them. Apparently, the ones that are great descriptors for religious people, seem to be insults, but then again, you could be nice to religious person and they would still think you're insulting them. lol lol lol lol

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  It’s hard to be so nice to them, if one becomes too nice, he become stupid.

                  Kindness is a better word.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    schoolgirl

                    I prefer more kindness in the world than more religion or more politics.
                    If someone insults me, it’s most likely it’s the truth about my weakness that I have. If it’s an untrue insult, I can ignore it or have them Clearfield it more to understand it better.

                    It’s kinder for me to work more on balancing my weakness than over working my strengths.

                    Very nice people have been known to do very bad things.

                2. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
                  schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't want to get involved,
                  But I picked up on an interesting thought here and correct me if I'm wrong, but it "appears" that because some people believe in God and are "called religious" that makes all of them...

                  "I'm not even sure there is a word in any language that comes close to describing them. Apparently, the ones that are great descriptors for religious people, seem to be insults, but then again, you could be nice to religious person and they would still think you're insulting them"

                  Which you mean to say--in other words, whether a person is not sure about God or just believes in God in a general sense maybe, that he exists but they don't live according to any rules let's say, (excluding the people who believe in God and try very hard to imitate the holy life of Jesus) that they are the type of people who get insulted alot? --hmm maybe because they are standing up for what others don't believe, or because others don't like rules like the 10 commandments so they feel threatened ...??

                  and you "could be nice to a religious person and they would still think you're insulting them"??

                  Again, does the word "religious" necessarily mean someone is fanatical --perhaps they generally believe in a God, but don't practice faith.....

                  Are you implying
                  that if someone believes in God--which many scientists do and brilliant scholars and people with high IQ's and inventors, world leaders, etc
                  that they are ignorant?
                  Because they are a believer that God exists from the evidence of nature let's say, that they are too stupid to know if you are insulting them or not???

                  OR,

                  Perhaps you are Generalizing.
                  In that case
                  Generalizing is not really logical or correct is it?
                  If one person likes blue and so do 10 others
                  but that one person kills someone the 10 others will too?

                  What is generalizing but a petty easy way to insult.

                  I rest my case--and I think it's a pretty good one if I say so myself tongue

              2. Appletreedeals profile image82
                Appletreedealsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Your confidence in the validity of your opinion is clear to see. But what is unclear is whether it is your belief that there is or can be no God? Or that it is the legitimacy of Organized religion that can be denied?

                If it is the former, I don't have the confidence to state a firm opinion one way or the other - the probability that I just don't know what I don't know is too high, and I don't like to be wrong.

                If it is the later - I think it is a tool that is purposely designed to benefit the users, more than those it is applied to, in the best case. In the worst case - its purpose is obscene.

                GA

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Sure there can be a god. Why not? I am open to the infinite number of possible gods - all it need to do is express it self clearly. I am absolutely certain that the poorly defined god of the bible does not exist, and have researched it's origins enough to understand it is a metaphor - not an actual being.

                  Organized religion is total garbage. I understand it better than the regurgitators. Obscene is a good word to define it.

                  I am always right. I am the  Righteous atheist after all. wink

                  And I surely do love it when I get told not believing is the same as believing.

                  1. hanging out profile image62
                    hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    oh that hub, lol.   
                    You stomped into a room of christians yelled, "there is a problem here", interrupted everything christian going on, You continue to stomp into dfferent rooms and "create your problem" then you decide that you are better than them and then you write hubs in a ego-centric way that only depicts a super huge sized ego and then you proclaim yourself messiah.

                    and you say we are the aggressive ones: "Organized religion is total garbage. I understand it better than the regurgitators. Obscene is a good word to define it."  real peaceful, lots of room for debate there. Thanks for sharing such well put wisdom. Just what is a regurgitator? Are you talking about those who actually quote something other than themselves?

                    Sounds like something is wrong where you are at

      3. qwark profile image60
        qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Gingerka:
        What has "logic" got to do with this god thing?
        You have to re-think and re-reply 'cause this comment has no meaning at all..
        All you are offering is a "dime-a-dozen" opinion.
        Give it another shot...ok?

        1. Ed Ka profile image59
          Ed Kaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          you mean because someone does not agree with you that you are smarter then she is , better yet why does she have to re-think and you do not.  your logic button is broken

          1. Ed Ka profile image59
            Ed Kaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            i also noted that her comment on creation, was simply ignored, yet it does have merit

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Actually, her comment was not addressed, not because it has merit, but because it lack any rationalize thought process. hmm

              1. Ed Ka profile image59
                Ed Kaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                if it has no merit then where did the original material for the universe come from??

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Good question

                  The most incomprehensible thing about the Universe, is that it's comprehensible.

                  I think Man is not yet capable of answers that question yet. We still know very little about our own earth.

                2. oceansnsunsets profile image87
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Excellent question Ed.

          2. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            And this statement shows nothing more than irrationality at it's best. Yes, Qwark is strange, even unique in nature, but with regards to a god, he would prefer it be defined, before it's discussed.

            How is that in any way, shape or form, not smart? hmm

            If there is not definition, legitimate definition, then it isn't worthy of a discussion. I would thought that would be obvious to almost anyone, but I guess not. hmm

            1. qwark profile image60
              qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              TY Cags ( I think) lol   :-)

            2. oceansnsunsets profile image87
              oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Cagsil, It seems you are suggesting that God needs to be defined before he can even be discussed.  I am not sure why that is.  I don't know  know you or if you are an atheist.  I have known many atheists over the years and they feel similar to you.  When it is discussed, they want god to not only be defined, but be defined according to a held materialistic or physicalistic philosophy only.  That is putting a form of restrictions of what god could be, and thus taking the easy way of ruling a god out.  I am not saying that you do this at all, just sharing my experience.  I do appreciate you sharing your beliefs and opinions though.  They are interesting, and I just think that discussing a possible cause for the effect in the world is a very worthy discussion.  Looking at many atheists on these boards, they do too!  Massive commenting going on, which I thin is great.

              1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Agreed! big_smile

          3. qwark profile image60
            qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Ed ka;
            lolol...wow! Pls check the English defintion of logic, mull it over for a a few minutes until the light above your head comes on...then, unabashedly, (if thats possible) re-write that comment with an understanding of the word logic in mind....ok?
            I'll give ya another chance...go for it.

            1. Ed Ka profile image59
              Ed Kaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              thank goodness I do not need your permission for another chance, i find it very funny that you feel the need to denigrate those who disagree with your premise.
              out side of nature itself I cannot prove the existence of nor can you prove that God does not exist.  It is a point of faith.  God has proven to me that He IS.  That is sufficient for me

              1. qwark profile image60
                qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Ed Ka:
                  This is not to be taken as an insult. It's just a helpful suggestion.

                I don't think I asked for "proof" of this god thing...in fact, I know I didn't.
                It may be your reading and comprehension abilities that are causing us problems.
                The comment you just wrote, has nothing to do with my response to you.
                Take your time. If the words are too big, I suggest an online dictionary.
                Now, lets get back to this god thing and logic, ok? After you check the definition of "logic" I'd like to know how you can possibly, use it when referring to this god thing.
                Can ya clear that up for me? ty
                Qwark

                1. Ed Ka profile image59
                  Ed Kaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  obviously you are unable to read and utilize the printed word.  You pretend to be intelligent but prove yourself to be of modest intellect and no wisdom (you might want to check the original meaning of the word wisdom, lest you think that I an dissing you).  But as I know that you already believe that you know what the meaning is, you wont check it out.  Regardless of the dictionary, the terms "logic" and "God" are not incompatible, though you would like to believe different.  If in your opinion I am found to be lacking in intellectual ability then I guess I will just have to suffer.

                  1. qwark profile image60
                    qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Ed Ka:
                    "... the terms "logic" and "God" are not incompatible,"
                    Easy to say. I ask you to give me a "logical" reason for that illogical comment.
                    Can ya do it?
                    Naw, ya can't!     :-)
                    I'm off to the gym. That'll give ya plenty of time to "dance-it-around-the-barn."
                    Will read your "wisdomly" (is that a word?...lol) reply when I get back.
                    Qwark

                2. Ruben Rivera profile image81
                  Ruben Riveraposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow talk about a big head, get a grip on it or it will float away.

              2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Ed Ka, Your point of truth is very clear.

      4. 0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        if god created everything, he/she/it doesn't seem to be involved personally.  All the years I was a christian and believed, I never saw god, never had prayers answered etc. 
        There's a TV evangelist that took millons from the mob for supposedly "healing" them on the spot; when he had cancer, he booked into a private hospital for treatment.  So the evangelists don't believe either - they're in for the money & ego trip

    4. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      yes...but not in the way you think. it is not he, it is not she, it is not it...so hence we use the word G-d.

      but since it is a recurrent theme in global culture, it is simply talking about something real in our consciousness that we have no words for.

      Is there order in the universe? This is the real question. And the answer to that is, once again...yes but not in the way you think.

      1. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        GENE    SIS   (SIS) is Cadeucis -Google it. SIS is Double Helix. DNA
        UNI         VERSE (One Verse) Genesis. Whoa. Heavey Dude! Way cool.
        Man began his walk away from ignorence during an interglacial period.
        Quantum Leap=Sudden jump in technology which increases Man's knowledge. Women got smarter first. Amazons. Enslaved the menfolk. Smarter people do that to those they consider "beneath" them.  Alpha and Omega is the "Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill" I am not raising myself up. I am a messenger. Don't confuse the messenger with He who sent him.

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          hmmm....

    5. Ruben Rivera profile image81
      Ruben Riveraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think it's a he/she concept.

      1. qwark profile image60
        qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Ruben:
        What is "it?"

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          "God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that."
          -Joseph Campbell

          1. qwark profile image60
            qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Cecilia:
            Isn't that just an unworthy opinion? Of course it is!
            But then. opinion is all that's available, so yours is as good a guess as anyones...lol  :-)

      2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
        ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        true

    6. Stump Parrish profile image61
      Stump Parrishposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      god exists in the mind of a lot of people. It exists no where else. Those who have no ability to deal with reality will always seek refuge in their minds. The human mind is the only one capable of an imagination and some simply haven't out grown the need for supernatural explanations for every facet of their lives. The truly dangerous ones are those who feel that their delusions give them the right to force the rest of the planet to live according to their dream world rules. These same people refuse to walk under a ladder in order to maintain the staus quo of the universe. They will aviod a black cat and feel the need to throw spilled salt over their shoulders to ward off evil spirits. Explain the rationality of this kind of delusion to me and I will stop complaining abourt weak minded fools. Well not really but I thought I would at least make an effort to act a little retarded. Figured at least three morons would think better of me.

    7. PhoenixV profile image78
      PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Do you mean, is God existing?


      Exist is a word used to denote finite things. For instance all of the people replying to this "didn't exist" a billion years ago. They wont exist a billion years in the future. They never chose to exist, they cant empirically show that they are any more than deterministic electrochemical reactions. What they consider as "themselves" has no substance nor does it last but a fleeting moment and all within temporal parameters.

      Even if they believe they exist as energy. Human beings are just deterministic entropy waiting to happen. Human beings are "existence challenged". Their alleged existence comes and goes with time and place and at its core can't be shown any more than qualia or similar.

      For a human being to consider whether there is an "existing" intelligent being that concurrently creates or created this reality, they might consider what the word "exist" actually means, first.

      A hypothetical creator of time and space, may exist in a way that actually means something.

      1. PhoenixV profile image78
        PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Part 2

        ....Does God exist?

        I think we have all been through enough pain, seen enough suffering to seriously doubt whether there is such a thing as God....what's the consensus...? His he for real?

        ----------------------------------------------------------------


        To reply to the second part or premise : I believe similarly to Leibniz's best of all possible worlds.

        OR:

        I think we have all been through enough pleasure and awe at every waking moment and at each miracle of each breath we take, also to behold the beauty of reality and life and each other to seriously entertain the idea of God.

        1. oceansnsunsets profile image87
          oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well said, that is beautiful, and makes sense.  We can't be so picky to only ever want life to be perfect and full of perfect moments.   Living and breathing and thinking are amazing things!  There is that idea that we may not even know what beauty and love and really living is if not for their opposites.  Better question might be, could a god, if he/she/it exists have a REASON that the negative parts of life are allowed for a time?  Could there be a cause and effect there? 

          Even better question may be, what makes us think there shouldn't be any suffering at all, where did the idea of "perfect" come from anyway?  Was there ever a perfect world, and could there be again one day, and how can we know these things at all?  How does a perfect creation NOT be allowed the freedom to do evil or good.   Forced robotic "goodness" isn't a good thing in anyone's book.

          1. PhoenixV profile image78
            PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Well said points. If everything was good, what would we compare it to? If all was light, I cant compare nor choose darkness. It seems we have an ability to perceive duality that may and then againm may not exist. We "presume" it does.

            Why is there suffering ? Why is there "is" : or anything at all? Why do we assume there is "this or the other" anyway? smile

            Its seems the "perception of duality" "enables a lot of choice". almost like it was designed that way.

            1. oceansnsunsets profile image87
              oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Yep, what we do observe daily (no matter what we believe) seems to have clear cut elements of design.  That "connect" between us, our thoughts, and what is all around us.  What is sufficient cause for THAT clear cut effect?  If we don't care for that question, are we in a sense suggesting such things need no cause that is sufficient for the effect?  Isn't that bad science?

      2. oceansnsunsets profile image87
        oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That makes complete sense to me,  all that above and concluding with this interesting thought,

        "A hypothetical creator of time and space, may exist in a way that actually means something."

        Good science and thinking takes into account cause and effect and in this case origins.  What could be a sufficient cause for the effect of "all of humanity and the universes."

    8. oceansnsunsets profile image87
      oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Gordon, I think what you are suggesting has been a problem tossed around for centuries by the greatest philosophers ever known to man.  That is, does the problem of pain and suffering justify a true doubting of the possibility of an existence of a God. 

      One would need to first present a case where one is convinced that its logical to doubt God could exist BECAUSE there is pain and suffering in the world.  It doesn't really follow at all that because there is pain and suffering, that therefore there must not be a God. 

      That really is just sharing one's personal beliefs about what "said god" should or shouldn't do with his creation in regards to their suffering.  In other words, its not a good argument to say that there likely isn't a God because we do observe pain in the world.  I mean, its not logical or scientific,  and merely an assertion, or an opinion.  Thanks for sharing yours.

      1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I fully agree.

    9. Rosie2010 profile image83
      Rosie2010posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, most definitely God exists.  I believe and as the song goes...


      "I Believe" by Tom Jones

      I believe for every drop of rain that falls
      A flower grows,
      I believe that somewhere in the darkest night
      A candle glows,
      I believe for everyone who goes astray,
      Someone will come to show the way,
      I believe, I believe.

      I believe above the storm a smallest prayer
      Will still be heard,
      I believe that someone in the great somewhere
      Hears every word,
      Every time I hear a newborn baby cry,
      Or touch a leaf, or see the sky,
      Then I know why,
      I believe.

      Every time I hear a newborn baby cry,
      Or touch a leaf, or see the sky,
      Then I know why,
      I believe.

      1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Rosie, That song is truthful and beautiful. smile

    10. Onusonus profile image88
      Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If God did not exist then none of us would either. There would be nothing to create us.

    11. 60
      Schmeagalposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "God is the Word."  The Word is His Law.  It is also His proof to us He exists.  Because,  "He is always right."  What is "right" equates to "life."  What is not ends in death.  (The "unforgivable sin" is the one that kills you).  The Word is His venue to us. Filter all through the Law and you will find truth, freedom and life.  Ignore it and be enslaved and treated like cattle. 

      For a truly faith building experience go to:  "Ivan Panin's Bible Numerics."

      Ivan has found something that the chances of existing in the first chapter of Genesis alone would be about ten trillion to one.  Absolutely fascinating.

      Peace to all.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If faith requires this to build it - surely it is not faith at all? If faith has any basis in "odds-against happening" - it is not faith, it is probability.

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Schmeagal, Yes indeed!

    12. davidwillium profile image58
      davidwilliumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Deleted

      1. kirstenblog profile image77
        kirstenblogposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        This is not true, there is no evidence for the existance of god, that is the whole point of faith. Might want to try getting some? hmm

        Oh and this is from someone who has that faith that there is a God.

    13. 0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      it's claimed many gods exist - many different religions/superstitions claiming existence of god(s) and they all think they're right!

    14. 60
      Sword of Fireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That which is Spirit, and that which is Consciousness are becoming OneThe straight line in opposite directions is true only outside the Euclidian concept. Our concept of truth, in Science and Spirit are closing, forming a circle, twisted by the hand of the Spirit into an 8. Symbol of eternity, tied in the middle with a Gordian Knot. Welcome to Day ONE.

    15. shahadat73 profile image57
      shahadat73posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes... He exist. If we just compare the human creations with human themselves, we will be able to find the similarity - existence of  God. Now the question is 'one or more' ?!!

    16. 0
      Jake Gene Barnesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No.

      This "God" character - most likely - doesn't exist.

    17. yolanda yvette profile image60
      yolanda yvetteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      God exists.  I'm not talking about all these other 'little g' gods.  There is a real God.

    18. TheRaptorClaw profile image60
      TheRaptorClawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well it depends on your religon but i believe God exists. How do you think the world was made?

  2. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    No!

  3. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago

    LOL
    Of course not.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      ?Wait a minute

      Leaving the Religious one-sidedness thing out of this concept of God's existence

      The World and Universe is 99% unknown to each and every one of us, so it’s impossible for anyone of us to prove God dose not exist.

      What if everyone is God and everything is God

      If God being everyone, coincide with an all loving attitude that really matters?

      Remember God is just a word, its the attitude that matters.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, OK - so no one kills for god?

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          That's right, no good reason to kill, unless maybe you’re trapped on a mountain with group of people staving to death with nothing to eat, picks out the fat one.

          Still I can't imagine of running out of idea's to kill someone, not even a hamster

  4. Ron Montgomery profile image61
    Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago

    Yes I do.  Thanks for asking.

    1. rotl profile image60
      rotlposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      LOL!  Best answer ever.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
        Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well duh!  How could God's answer NOT be the best?  We'll talk later, I'm gonna go watch Oprah.

  5. coolbreeze profile image4
    coolbreezeposted 6 years ago

    You can only answer that question yourself Its an interesting one at that. Check this out though to me. Yes to me many Atheists are more spiritual than professed Christens. My one example of this on Hubpages would be Mark Knowles.

    He tells it like it is. He is straight up no BS. I find him refreshing because he is an Atheist and I am as far from that as you can get in my book. But I see him as more spiritual  than many of the bible thumpers. These type of people are fascinating to me.  He doesnt believe in God and doesnt really know me except on hub pages and will tell me that I am full of it when he thinks that I am.

    Sort of like how God does to some people He! he!  Love that guy! Knowles and his not so silent partner that he doesnt believe in. ;-) Hi Mark ;-)

    1. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Coolbreeze:
      I'm not an atheist, agnostic, deist or a believer in mythical divinities.
      I agree with Mark...totally!
      I'm a seeker, I find "unbelievers" to be logical and reasonable when discussing whatever this god thing may be.
      I find "believers" to be irrational, bigoted and closed minded.
      In fact, "primitive" in their thinking processes.
      Qwark

      1. 0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        same here

      2. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        qwark

        Do you find me to be irrational, bigoted and closed minded?

      3. coolbreeze profile image4
        coolbreezeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I have never been called irrational, bigoted or closed minded. I find your statements to be reflective of your own conscience. My thinking process is primitive as is yours if not we would not be having such a silly conversation.

        You really cannot pigeon hole believers and non believers in any mode of thinking. That would be irrational, bigoted and closed minded on your part.

        1. qwark profile image60
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Coolbreeze:
          Of course I can!
          Yes, I do judge. My "conscience" does reflect my understanding of the "primitive" mindset of believers in myth and superstition.
          This 'silly" conversation, as you put it, has, as it's intent, a definitive reason. That reason is to, hopefully, raise the awareness of "fence sitters," of the damnably, hellacious history of the 3 major monotheisms.
          Oh yes, the length and depth of my 40 yrs of study have enlightened me in ref to making judgements.
          I do judge "believers" in mythical gods to be be irrational, bigoted and closed minded.
          I base that judgement on 60+ yrs of living amongst you and witnessing the depth of ignorance it represents.
          If you fall into the category of "believer" and the shoe fits, ya must wear it.
          Qwark

          1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
            Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I am sorry, but your judging is all wrong. Actually, I found your judging to be a reflection of your own personality. The shoe fits you well.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Odd how the ones who complain the most.... could do no better than the ones they tear down. And instead of changing the doctrines or informing people of the correct doctrines they chose to not figure it out, not stand up, but to walk the other way and take up a small ineffective ministry on hubpages.
              lol
              not funny really. It almost makes me wanna believe in a satan... but nah, we are all responsible for whom we choose to serve.

              1. qwark profile image60
                qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Brother:
                You have an "IDEA" OF what this god thing is. Correct?
                I have studied the evolution of man and his gods for about 40 yrs.
                When I encounter one, such as you, who touts this god thing in the manner you do, I always ask this question: Pls define this god thing you speak of, in factual form, not opinion and conjecture. I usually get a question as an answer! 
                In more than 40 yrs of questioning, I have gotten nothing but opinion and conjecture as an answer.
                I'm POSITIVE that you would offer the same.
                All you base your monotheistic belief on, is an "idea."
                I'm also sure that your life is guided by your monotheistic belief.
                To guide ones life on an "IDEA" and 'HOPE," is insane.
                Pls reply using logic and reason and make me a believer.
                If you can't, pls stay in the closet with your silly religious notions.
                TY.Qwark

  6. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Does god exist?
    No.

    Nor does the tooth fairy or any of the other gods of myths and stories about gods and their disciples that frightened people have believed in since the beginning of time.

    Bronze aged bulldust, nobbled together from all the thousands of stories that preceded it.

    1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      ernest, aren't you a psychologist. why do you say this? ever heard of Jung? didn't we have a lively discussion on depth psychology a long long time ago?

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Cecilia. Yes we did have a discussion, In which I concluded that god was a psychological need, an archetype. Not a reality, so I don't get your meaning here. We spoke of "religiosity" being hardwired.

        I see nothing of a biblical god in the wiring though! lol

        I believe religiosity can be destroyed with a decent dose of an SUI to assist the synapses to dump the fear level down to barely screaming. smile

        I have personally observed several devout christians drop the psychosis after taking mmda.

        There are many better ways to observe the self such as meditation, drugs, psycho analysis, dream therapy, the list goes on.
        None of them require that we threaten others with death and damnation for not believing in them as far as I know anyway. smile

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          An archetype is a reality expressed in metaphor simply because it eludes words.

          It's a mathematical formula. For example the fibonacci sequence which communicates a spiral without actually saying it.

          1 1 2 3 5 8 13  is a spiral but just by looking at it you can't tell. it seems random until you apply it. That is what an archetype is.

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            An archetype is a pillar of belief that is stuck in the psych, not necessarily in a way that is helpful...... and needs to be understood in direct relationship to self.
            First we need to define self.

            Self is the individual who is individuated according to what I see.

            Most humans will never attain more than a sniff of who they are as individuated humans.
            Confronting the ego to know self is the hardest thing for humans to do and as most will never even know about it..... let alone find the psychological courage to confront it I despair for the ignorant by choice religionists who make up most of the world's population. Many can neither read nor write, most of them have poor or no education, most are vulnerable.

            Their sub-conscious knows where the fear comes from and knows that religion is a lie. All humans know it is a lie subconsciously.

            1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
              ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I really am coming from the perspective of depth psychology. Stories are very effective in communicating complex lessons of the consciousness that even the illiterate are drawn.

              I think what is damaging is the political insistence that these stories ARE historically true because they are not. They are based on actual places and in some occasions on real people but the stories are mythos.

              I actually disagree that we all instinctively think its a lie. The reason why myth captures our attention is something about them resonates. But there is a need to unfold these stories and dig the roots of these stories and their message. It is not enough to say BELIEVE. we have to understand.

              All literature have value, the bible is one of the most enduring literature. It is an exceptional source of wisdom. It must not be read literally but figuratively.

              An archetype by definition is:" (in Jungian psychology) a collectively inherited unconscious idea, pattern of thought, image, etc., universally present in individual psyches."

              So we are disagreeing because we have different definitions.

    2. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I base my life on good sense and don't belong to any group. I would flow along the lines of the spiritual non religious 11%.  It’s the supernatural God or personal God that dose not make sense to me. My image of an all loving God would not punish people worst than the crime.

      It works very well; just cast my question out into the Universe for God is just a word. When the answer comes back and I don’t listen to it, I lower my energy, rather than raise it

  7. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Hey Cecilia,

    The concept of "god", the one Jesus spoke of, is about self mastery.

    It's being god, all powerful, all controlling of one self, learning to love oneself, so that love can be passed on to others and to have compassion for those who do not know how to do so. His "Love" and "Mercy" message is all about oneself and connecting with oneself, so much so, acceptance becomes natural and all barriers fall.

    The one question I would love for any religious person to answer- "Why is there a need for a god?" - When you follow the above message.

    Sorry for the ramble. Nice to see you though. smile

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with much of that, the Godlike image would have to make sense .

      I feel mystic about Jesus, but only as ancient spiritual intelligence man.

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I'm in dispute with the manner in which the bible tells it. Within itself, it records Jesus' dislike for religion- the mystic form. The message he brought was in metaphorical parables. The scriptures are dated(tested) decades later.

        The gist of his message is as I just laid it out. Jesus could not do his work, if the religious rulers at that time, knew he was not teaching religion to his followers. He spoke oddly, so as to confuse them, so he could tend to what he needed to do.

        The OT depends on an external god- Jesus knew was false and why his ministry of followers were told to look within, instead of some external authority such as god. The NT is a crock solely based on Paul's awful interpretation of Jesus' work.

        That's what I learned during researching it. hmm

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          DAMN cag. That actually shows some logical thought. There is a God after all!!! smilesmilesmile Did you get Dave banned. Or was it the Gods of the internet? just curious.

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hello Druid. Dave banned? Didn't know.

        2. qwark profile image60
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Cags:
          Of course it's a "crock."
          Oh if these believers would only do their homework! tch tch
          Qwark

          1. Druid Dude profile image61
            Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I said it shows logicality. I didn't say he followed it out to a conclusion: Cag, you believe that evolution is how we got where we are. Our beliefs also evolved, not just from early man, but neanderthal, also. We gained knowledge, and as we progressed, our beliefs also progressed. Just like Knowledge , beliefs are a step by step process. Just like evolution. Now you are really looking for sensible answers instead of being influenced by the religion of science, which comes complete with it's own dogma. Dogma means BS

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not looking for any answers. hmm

        3. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Cags

          There was a shaman area close down after I wrote a thread about Jesus being an amateur shaman. Jesus was only angry with the church for promoting money market. Money is written about many more times than hell or heaven combined.

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            But, "hell" and "heaven" are not in the meanings that the bible portrays them.

            "Hell" is about being dead and buried. edit: to be without life

            "Heaven" is Earth. If you took every human off the planet and you looked at from space, it is simply so beautiful(heavenly) to live upon.

            1. Druid Dude profile image61
              Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Cag. Read Gene sis, do you see hell? God said S'all good. But, of course, you don't believe that God exists. Oh, yeah. You also said my beliefs were irrelevant. So, if you don't believe, then why do you call creation by the name that God called it. Universe. When God created Man, it doesn't say much else. What if the Man God created was a one celled creature. We were built upon that first step. even so, that would mean that man walked with Dinosaurs. On all fours. Check and mate.

              1. Cagsil profile image83
                Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Genesis is a joke? Enough said.

                Edit: Since you brought it up- where exactly is Genesis? hmm

                1. Druid Dude profile image61
                  Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  GENE + SIS= DNA HELLO! ANYONE IN THERE? The two ss are for snake. two esses, two snakes. The "I" is the winged staff in the medical insignia, with the snakes, it makes a double Helix (DNA) First page of the SKY FAIRY BOOK. DNA. CELL DIVISION. First page. Matter of interpretation? Then maybe you should listen more to mine.

                  1. Cagsil profile image83
                    Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh really? hmm

                    From what it sounds like, putting it mildly, you've nothing to teach anyone, regardless of what book you are reading from.

                    It appears as though you've got "creator" on the mind, as if and beginning to sound like many others. But, to each their own.

                    As I've already stated- to this forum's question- No.

                    And, before you interrupted, I was talking to someone else, who isn't you. But, since you demanded my attention, you now have it.

                    You have a belief in a god- And what book did you get your belief from? You seem to be, from your words, basing your belief that religion and science working together to give you a creator.

                    And, I'm sorry to say, that neither does the job, much less together.

          2. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Cags

            The churches use heaven and hell like a carrot on a stick for control.

            Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within

            There was a place, a large pit they did called hell, where they burn the bodies of the criminals.

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Kingdom of Heaven= Is Life on Earth.

              Kingdom of God within= Is Peace with Self. Harmony, Honesty and Love.

              Is Jesus' message. Again, not as it is portrayed in scripture.

              I know what the church has done, and it was done on purpose, so that religion could ultimately fool Jesus' followers.

              People are made, literally, by religion, to answer to a higher authority, when the highest authority is oneself. Self rule, hold oneself honest and accountable for all actions.

              Religion goes as far to force obedience, by claiming you have a choice, between a rock and a hard place? One of no choice. Religion- it's pathetic bible is nothing more than B.S., when researched.

              Anyone who supports it, supports the lies of ancient religious leaders who ruled at the time of Jesus. The scary thought is that people are not aware of it, because it was hidden in religion. The OT is B.S. The NT is a joke.

              There is no god.

              1. Druid Dude profile image61
                Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                What will you say when the landing occurs. God is coming as we speak. Ever see the movie, The Day The Earth Stood Still. It WON"T be like that.

                1. Druid Dude profile image61
                  Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Heck, you don't even know his first name. You better start readin' Genesis. It's right after the cover that says Holy Bible Cag. That is the beginning of the book. JEEEZ how can you even follow a movie. You wear dark glasses in the theater?

                2. Cagsil profile image83
                  Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Trust me, what's coming isn't a god. But, I'll tell you one thing, when it hits, it going pound on every conscious human being on the planet.

                  And, when it hits as hard as I think it is, not only will the idea of a god's existence be shattered, but the elevation of self awareness on this planet that's coming will seem like nothing seen before.

                  I'll leave it at that. You can think about it.

                  1. Jerami profile image78
                    Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    If by self awareness you are talking about finding that little window in our consciousness through which we can see outside of ourself I might agree.

                        As far as it being a God?   
                    I think that it will have all the atributes of what people think a God would have.

                        And we will find out that we could have had it with us all along.

                        And yes we will all be suprised ! 
                    Cause that is what we humans do.

                  2. brotheryochanan profile image60
                    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    okay done thinking .. hahaha

            2. hanging out profile image62
              hanging outposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              that was ghenna and it was the valley of hinnom. They burned garbage and criminals there. They tossed everything over the edge including the criminals. The fire was just below, quite a ways down.

              the last time i heard hell in my church was... dunno... i have heard satan 11 times.. mostly the word enemy. I understand these as metaphors so i am among a number of believers who believe a bit differently.
              Would i preach hell and satan in my church.             NO.
              I don't think hell is a reason to be saved and i do not believe God ever created anything that was flawed. If so, what are we waiting for another third of the angels to get bored and just come to earth and pee around with us? Rubbish belief.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Too bad, in the bible, Jesus talked more about hell than heaven.

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  That doesn't sound right but if so?
                    I will say this .  I think that when the canon was being selected they chose to choose those letters that served their purpose.

        4. oceansnsunsets profile image87
          oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Cagsil, as much as Jesus did speak in parables, he very often spoke very plainly.  It is easy to understand the gist of his message even if he were to leave out every parable. 

          I am of an opposing view in that I don't think Paul botched the message of Jesus and his work.  I would be curious to know how you think Paul got what Jesus said wrong, and I am totally open to hearing it.  I mean, how you think what Paul said goes against what Jesus said.  One last though, even if you disagree with Paul, why throw out the baby with the bathwater?

    2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      True, I do agree with you on Self-Mastery. But why is there a need for G-d?
      Because we have no name for it. Through the metaphor, the parable we or some of us, manage to rise above it and in seeing the meaning we become acquainted with that aspect of ourselves that can transcend our limited existence. G-d exists in this world because we need to
      assign

      x to an unknown number to arrive at a  number  2x.

      It is as simple as that. G-d is there because G-d is needed. Otherwise, why else are we bothering with this persistent aspect of our world mythology?

      and nice to see you too!

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        chosen ignorance
        smile big_smile

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          x is not ignorance it is just the unknown.

          you do not know it too you know. Nobody does.

          People manage to climb up from there you know. But they have to be willing.

        2. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          There are more ways to God than you know.
          Most of the greatest men in human history are believers of God, to prove that it works.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Mark

            I build displays in natural history museum and report much more of the positive side of Great men in History. The vast majority of great men are believers in God in one form or another. Great atheist men in history are small, yet grand in the area of science.

            The men you are speaking of not are likely to be recorded as great men, unless they are notice for their large mass murders or StumbleUpon on a one hit wonder.

            Kill one man and become a murderer; kill many men become a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god.

            Not my image of an all loving God or kindness,

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Any one would think the irrational belief in an Invisible Super Being has been an all-pervasive theme in our recorded history.

              Hitler believed in god. Bush and Blair claim the same belief. Are these "great men."?

              Times they are a-changing. The social stigma attached to atheism is shrinking as we speak, thus we are more free to express our opinion.

              What is your point exactly? Some guys who were nasty and aggressive enough to be named "great," by you believed in an Invisible Super Being - and this is some how a reason for me to not make my own judgment on the matter?

              You do know that until a few hundred years ago - declaring yourself an atheist was a death sentence - right?

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Mark

                Take a great man likes Albert Einstein where atheist and Christian alike, love to claim him in their camp and put the great terror likes of Hitler in the other. G. Bush may go down in history as one the worst President ever and his IQ score was the worst ever.

                A new kind of death means new kinds of measurement to be recorded. For example suicide deaths out number War, terror and murder deaths combined. The extremes of high Capitalismbetween and poverty is the greatest death products of all time. A faction of the war budget would cur poverty alone. If the truth were to be told, extreme poverty is the world's biggest killer and the greatest cause of ill health and suffering in the world. One third of the world is homeless.

                Our greatest treat is nuclear war and the enivironment.
                I wrote hub on this topic
                The actually majority of great men in history do believe in God yet, they are some where between atheists and super natural religions.

                For Example Albert Einstein

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Still not understanding your point. Einstein was pretty clear that if there was a god - and he did not believe there was - it did not involve itself in the affairs of the Universe.

                  Truth be told, artificial rationing of resources is the world's biggest killer. 50% of the population are starving while the other 50% kill themselves over indulging.

                  Please make your point more clear. First you can start by defining this god these "great" men believe in. Then perhaps you could explain to me what bearing that should have for me. There is no god. You think that because some "great" man from a time when to not publicly believe in one was a death sentence. Then we can discuss how these "great" men used this god concept to persuade the ignorant masses to follow them in whatever greatness it was they did.

                  A few "great" atheists for you include:

                  Napoleon Bonaparte
                  Ferdinand Magellan
                  Karl Marx
                  Albert Einstein
                  Thomas Jefferson
                  Sigmund Freud
                  Siddhartha Gautama

                  So what?

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Mark

                    Many Atheists give me lists over 25 or more of atheist greatest men in history and most on those are not self proclaimed atheist. It is in my profession to know the background these men. Atheist takes these men quotes often out of contexts.

                    Many leaders such as Karl Marx, Napoleon Bonaparte I don’t why you want those two on your atheist list, like bush they suffer from mass murder and small dick dieses

                    Not self proclaim atheists

                    1. Thomas Jefferson mainly because USA Political popularly system
                    2, Albert Einstein self-proclaimed Pantheist. Spinoza's God who reveals himself.  Richard Dawkins claim he is deeply religious the same way Einstein is, figure that one out.
                    3.Siddhartha Gautama  Buddhist .... Atheists can not exist because negatives can not be proven.

      2. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Ah you mean politics, central banks and the artificial rationing of resources called "money," are needed because they are still a "persistent aspect," of our world paradigm?

        Grow up Cecelia. Certain small portions of humanity grow fat on the back of the ignorant masses and the god idea is one way of perpetuating that.

        We no more need it than we need pieces of paper to value each other. But all the time we can persuade a big enough portion of the ignorant masses to die for it - it perpetuates itself.

        We are getting rid of it as we speak. And the world will be a better place for it. We may even learn to look inside instead of outside for the answers. Who knows?

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          it is not a meme that you can destroy because it is hardwired in our anatomical structure, it is something within us, a capacity, an idea that we can transform until it is relevant to us, until it makes us understand our nature.

          G-d is needed because there is no other word for G-d. The aspect of our consciousness that we cannot reach intellectually. As I told Cagsil, you need to assign letters to invisible numbers to arrive at x+y=Z. When the numbers are there, then using the formula, you actually get it.

          I however understand your concern that people do get stuck saying BAAAAAA when what they should be doing is thinking. But everyone has different capacities of thought. I've had this discussion with you so I'm going to stop there.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            We can reach this aspect of our consciousness and worshiping a psychotic invisible entity does not help us to reach this aspect of ourselves. Quite the opposite in many cases.

            We do not need the word. Look at the damage it does. We are getting rid of it right now. Hence the "hatred" you perceive.

            It will always cause conflict, right up until the last child is educated out of the use of this meaningless, unintelligible word.

            1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
              ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I remember mentioning to you what happened to Cambodia and for a long time China under Mao Tse Tung after this philosophy was adapted. How do you teach a child lessons of the consciousness without the use of stories. It is the way it is, because our nature reverts back to metaphor.

              Our mythology and dreams have the same symbolic language and what you see out there in religious temples or churches cannot be understood by your conscious mind because it is compressed knowledge. It is all senses and visual symbols and emotion squeezed together to convey a learning, a breakthrough in consciousness.  The conscious mind cannot understand this language but the unconscious does. It is pure code talking straight to the machine.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                You are wrong. This is just another irrational belief. If you were correct, the machine would understand instead of concocting this psychotic invisible entity.

                Do we have to destroy ourselves before you grasp that?

                I have seen you attempting to explain this to the believers. They laugh in your face.

                My conscious mind understands this language. I can attune my conscious mind to my unconscious and have learned ways to do this which do not involve the Psychotic Invisible Super Being.

                We have skill sets related to survival which are dangerous to others but protect ourselves and our family (extended family also - church, tribe, clan, political party, whatever). 

                The believers tap into these without understanding them or even becoming aware of them. All they know is they know "something" and it is worth fighting for and God is a great word for it. When there is no need to fight. We can get rid of this and tap into these skills without the fighting. But we have to get rid of the Invisible Super Being first. It gets in the way unless you can persuade people it is a metaphor.

                You try your way, I will try mine. I have tried your way - they cannot listen because God is speaking directly into their head. wink

                1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                  ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't know about wrong. It has neurological basis. The language of dreams/insanity/mythology
                  is really how we pass on unconscious knowledge.

                  I do however understand what you're saying that at some point in the maturity of humanity, it is possible for us to just discuss these things with mindfulness as we are doing now. I do however think that myth is effective at storing the knowledge until it can be unfolded by awareness. Most of it is really so complex but essential.

                  You must have been exposed to the really dreary versions of Christians there is. I fortunately have very limited exposure to them.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Dear me. Why can you not discuss anything without two-penny snap psychological guesses about me?

                    I don't know where you are, but where exactly avoided the Christian crusades and cleansings? Your ability to ignore reality is quite shocking, but lack of exposure to the outside world tends to create blinkered people. I suggest you get out more.

                    I am not saying that myths are not one way of passing on collective or unconscious knowledge. What I am saying is that myth is not an effective means of communication and we have moved on. If it is not possible to understand the reasons behind the myths and you need a priest or psychologist to explain the meanings to you, then all we have done is created another form of parasite.

                    Have you seen the US political landscape? Are you aware that 51% of the US population does not believe humans evolved from other species, because that "does not make any sense," given the "facts" in the bible they have about where we came from?

                    There are other, more effective ways of attuning one self to the collective consciousness without the need for these myths which have become facts in the minds of many.

                    We are disposing of these myth-facts now. Lack of belief in a deity is growing all the time. Both the Katholic and Protestant Institutions are struggling for money and will (hopefully) die out soon. Perhaps then we can start the process of educating peopel to be able to understand these myths without a faith belief that they will live in heaven if they do wot god sed?

                    This is a collectively painful process, and the old guard is putting up a fight. I genuinely hope that they will not drag us back to the dark ages by creating a war between themselves and the muslimists.

                    I know - in your world they are all loving people who would not harm a fly - but in the real world they fly planes into buildings and go off to Afghanistan with a gun in one hand and a bible in the other to make war for money and call it giving freedom like wot god sed.

                    These people think love expresses itself by taking aboriginal children away from their parents and placing them in good christian homes to learn real values. These people stand up and tell their followers that condoms do not protect them from AIDS. These people are prepared to help child abusers avoid the law in order to protect the institution Jesus wanted on earth.

      3. 0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        why do you write G-d?

  8. IntimatEvolution profile image84
    IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago

    Does God exist?

    The forever ageless question.

    I think something exists that greater than me.  Is his name God?  Not for sure, I think so.smile

  9. qwark profile image60
    qwarkposted 6 years ago

    I've just added another "hubber" too my  list of those who have nothing of value to add to the forum and are not worthy of a response i.e. Druid  tch tch

  10. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    That's why people should be interest in self improvement. To be self interest, you are always improving upon yourself. It is not selfish to improve upon oneself.

    The actions you do can be selfless by supplying yourself with a meaning and purpose of life that benefits others. I wrote a different sort of hub to give a different perspective about it.

    It's called- How Greed Can Lead To A Selfless Purpose. That ties into another Hub which shows one How To begin doing it and the first step to doing that is to understand the power of money and the respect it deserves.

    Self improvement is a must, so we can adapt and evolve. Helping others is a selfless act. Nothing selfish in it.

    1. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Cags:
      "Helping others is a selfless act. Nothing selfish in it.

      We disagree. If I help others, it's a selfish (Concerned chiefly or only with oneself) desire to bring me joy and to satisfy a personal need to assist.
      Qwark

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Being selfless isn't a need to satisfy. hmm

        1. qwark profile image60
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Cags:
          Of course it is.
          I am a very selfish person.
          If I help you because you are needy, I am satisfying a selfish need to assist. Assisting brings me a sense of joy and worth. If it didn't, I'd pass ya by.

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            But what you describe is not a need. It being willing to help, whenever possible.

            A need would be something you feel compelled to do or must do. A need is selfish. Doing out of the goodness of your heart is not a need, it's a selfless action out of love for others.

            1. qwark profile image60
              qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Cags:
              I have no love for others.
              I don't really care about others.
              If I help or assist it is because of a selfish desire for joy and a feeling of worth.
              I am a very very selfish person.
              I will drive by an auto accident. Pay it no heed.
              If I saw children in danger, there would be a "selfish" (not a selfless desire) desire to save them. It would bring me joy and a feeling of momentary value.
              I understand the point you are trying to make.
              If you and I were in a foxhole, bullets flying all about us and I knew one of us would be killed, I'd wish it were you.
              That's being very selfish. if you got it, I'd sigh and think to myself...thank goodness!...lol I'd be happy to be alive and sorry you died...but the selfish joy I'd experience would be worth your death.   :-)

    2. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      True

      As they say on air flights, put the mask on your self first and then the child second

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        There is a reason for that, but that has nothing to do with this topic. But, thank you. I get the gist. wink

  11. Jon Rubin profile image59
    Jon Rubinposted 6 years ago

    No one knows. It's the definition of unknowable.

  12. 0
    awesome77posted 6 years ago

    Yes! but not in the way you relate to it. The 2 dimensions in the world is real. Always existed a natural power with its own rules of conduct. Some people call the power God, but very few understand the rules of getting help from the power and I am not referring to the ten commandments either.

    The super natural power will respond to those that follow the rules of conduct and you will always get in return what you put out!

  13. Disturbia profile image60
    Disturbiaposted 6 years ago

    God or whatever God is conceived to be exists in the minds and hearts of those who believe.

    1. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Disturbia:
      Quite true.
      That is why this biblical god thing can't "literally" be defined.
      Every believer in "it" imagines "it" differently.
      Qwark

      1. Disturbia profile image60
        Disturbiaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        There you go, that's exactly why all the religious forums where believers vs. non-believers get into those heated debates and arguments are so pointless.  They argue for the sake of argument, neither camp acomplishing anything more than fostering more discord in a world already filled with too much.

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Agreed.

          Both types of evangelicals screaming at each other that everyone should believe the same (unverifiable) thing that they believe...

          1. 0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            both implies 2 views.  There more than 2 views

    2. the pink umbrella profile image70
      the pink umbrellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      like santa

      1. PhoenixV profile image78
        PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And things like "theories and hypothesis". Inventions, concepts, qualia etc

        Even your own existence apart from the physical "exists only in your mind".

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          LOL

        2. oceansnsunsets profile image87
          oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          excellent point phoenix.   Some inconsistencies observed there.  Restrictions forced on some other things, but not all things, so we see the bias.

  14. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Life is like a box of chocolates .....
     

      Ya don't know what you are getting until we bite into it.
      Some of them has nuts and some don't.
      Some of them are filled with a sweet cream and some of them are rock hard in the center. 

       What is with that ?

    1. Troy C. profile image59
      Troy C.posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If you have to ask the question, then he does not exist to you. He has not called you, or has not revealed himself to you. Also , it might be that you have not been seeking after him. He will never exist to you personally if neither of these  things has happened. I pray that someone reading this will come to the knowledge of God, because he is real my friends and he is waiting.

      Love and Blessings, Troy C.

  15. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    I believe that the tooth fairy had nothing to do with any of it. smile

  16. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Who made god again? smile

  17. qwark profile image60
    qwarkposted 6 years ago

    I sit here, read all these responses and shake my head in amazement!
    Where were so many of you when your god thing passed out "brains?"
    There is such a dirth of knowledge and understanding being publicly flaunted!
    It's embarrassing to me to witness my fellow man wallowing in abject ignorance when all that mankind is and has become is there for the student of life and existance to assimilate, digest and metabolize. Once that process has taken place neurological omosis will seperate the wheat from the chaff and knowledge, leading to wisdom, will be gained!
    I guess I'm just an aging idealist.
    It seems no one gives a Sh*t!
    Insanity seems to be another human plague that cannot be cured before extinction becomes a viable threat! Sighhh!
    Qwark   :-(

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think extinction is far off, yet more suffering is in store rather than greater happiness. For my daughter sake, it inspires me to work hard on it, as best as I can anyways.

    2. PieterTheProphet profile image60
      PieterTheProphetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Qwark, it can be frustrating.. this is the process.  Stay in the hunt.

  18. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Pol Pot’s Education: 1934 – 1935 Buddhist monastery Wat Botum Vaddei in Phnom Penh 1935 – 1943 Catholic school in Phnom Penh École Miche 1943 – 1947

    Stalin once wanted to be a priest.

  19. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago

    you do know that in our language LOLO means grandpa LOLOLO!

  20. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Understanding- "god" is a metaphor, it's meaning, would be helpful to people.

    One problem- the OT spoke of a 'god' as an external authority, which presently many seem to agree.

    One problem- Jesus dismissed religion's 'god' as false. Which then throws out anything from the OT. Yet, plenty of people refuse to understand it.

    One problem- Paul's interpretation of Jesus' work is also false.

    So, in the end, nothing in the bible is inspired by a 'god'. It is it's own proof that there is no god.

    1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If you study mythology, you will see that all stages are reflections of the events in human consciousness.

      For example, the emergence of Satan as a reptile nemesis of G-d in Christian dogma coincided with the rise of conservative thought.  In conservative states, the belief in an external Devil is as important to salvation as Jesus. (as if you don't know that)

      Christianity today is about repression of the normal urges of life. Do not have sex, do not eat all the time. Do not look at that beautiful woman. It is the repression of bodily urges. So the reptilian aspect becomes rejected and vilified whereas in eastern religions they are revered as the gateway to healing

      The body brain is reptilian and so we instinctively tell ourselves that our body is evil and it must be defeated. The will of the end goal must prevail. This is all symbology and unless people understand this, they will continue to conjure up metaphors of evil snakes that want to overcome us.

      Another example is the Eagle emblem of the U.S.  The bird brain inside us is incharge of choice.
      Isn't it appropriate that this is america's chosen icon? The american eagle holding a shield.  Which in mythos means CHOICE. The power of Choice. WE can choose here in this land.

      It is so rich, so rich in insight that it is only we that loses out if we do not strive to understand it.

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        A very well though out and informative post Cecilia. smile

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks Earnest! smile

          1. prettydarkhorse profile image62
            prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Cecilia, Kumusta, How are you?

            1. 60
              Sword of Fireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hey, everyone. Familiar words, new life. Re-incarnation feels GREAT!

            2. earnestshub profile image89
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I am very well thank you! I hope you are the same. smile Sorry wrong person. smile Nice to see you prettydarkhorse

      2. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Cecelia - I don't think you are understanding what I said.

        I agree there is a lot of great understanding to be gleaned from symbolism and myths.

        But - after 2,000 years of people not understanding these myths and the purpose they serve - it is time to teach our children that they are myths, not facts. In school. From a young age. Not that Jesus wants them to fight for their country.

        I understand how these myths reflect our society. I personally find the muslim/christian nonsense to be so far removed from the "natural order" of things that it is damaging to us - both as individuals and as societies. It can only end in conflict. Women should cover their hair becoz god sed so? You cannot enter the Vatican wearing a pair of shorts becoz god gets offended? dear me.

        I mean - just look at the anti social behavior of some on this thread. Creating fake personas to post some nonsense praising the Lord! then copy pasting that statement and shouting AMEN! wink This is what christianity and islam teach their followers to do - not have rational dialog. Not to think for themselves. Tell them their book is mythology and they will probably want to kill you for suggesting such a thing.

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I understand what you're saying and I agree that this should be taught in schools. All aspect of it, the good the bad, the confusion and the clarity, it's role in science and the acquisition of knowledge.

          If they are taught as reflections of the collective psyche, they cannot be used for propaganda. But the point is to keep talking about it. To keep studying it and to keep telling the stories in their proper context.

          They are actually history in code, Mark. You can plot the predominant psyche of a nation by the myths that resonate in them. As for G-d and whether G-d exists. Well, if G-d is persistent in myth, what is G-d in actuality? That is the big question that deserves to be answered. What actual phenomenon in the psyche is G-d?

          See this is where it gets interesting and you will see that when you strive to answer the question, biblical language will come out .  "The Father is in me and I am in the Father" or Tat Vam Asi (that is you) or Namaste "The G-d in me recognizes the G-d in you" and so on and so forth.  G-d represents something inside of us that is in not so many words also out there and that it is a continuing intelligent presence.

          And it is more than 2000 years. We have been worshipping G-d or gods ever since our frontal brain got bigger.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The last 2000 years has seen the rise of the monotheistic god. And it is taught as fact - not as myth. God is a myth, a concept, not an actual being. It does not exist as an actual being. Most religious people will not agree with you that god represents anything other than a supreme being that actually exists.

            And oddly enough - you are quite happy to ignore the numerous wars, pogroms, crusades and dark ages cause by this poorly phrased attempt to understand ourselves. These believers are not learning anything. Nothing. They are perpetuating a myth that teaches them nothing about themselves. Quite the opposite in fact. Their myth teaches them that they need an interpreter called a priest to take on the responsibility of holding the knowledge.

            You are also mistaken about when we started worshiping this thing. We did not start to do so when our frontal brain got bigger. We started worshiping the things we saw that gave us life - the animals we eat and the sun. But only when we became self aware - somewhere around 30-70,000 years ago (still being argued about the actual timeline). We existed in our present evolutionary state for about 120,000 years before that.

            This sun and nature worship morphed into multi-gods and - I believe - the people understood what they were worshiping was aspects of themselves and keeping alive an oral history of their development. This was necessary until we developed other ways of storing the information. As I mentioned earlier - our technology is advancing faster than we are able to - the religions have always put up a fight when new knowledge comes along as it makes them unnecessary.

            We do not need a priest to tell us where we came from. We have solid evidence of where we came from. That doesn't mean we need to destroy or throw out that knowledge, just that it needs to be re-classified and taught properly.

            No. What this god-thing is doing is getting in the way of us understanding ourselves and the connection we have with the universe. It is old-thinking. Lets try new thinking instead. To do that we need to relegate the god thing to mythology where it belongs.

            I spent yesterday looking at Indian and Asian religious symbology in a great exhibit in Nice. They were allowed golden calves. wink

            http://s1.hubimg.com/u/4143664_f248.jpg

            1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
              ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              "To relegate god thing to mythology where it belongs"

              Indeed G-d is part of mythology but what is mythology. Mythology is a metaphor for events in the consciousness that have physical, actual physical/historical counterparts. Mythology is just the study of the subjective experience of knowing. 

              Campbell asserts that the religious traditions must remain in order for the purpose in our psyche to live out, if not we must make new ones that resonate.

              So you are actually proposing a contradiction. There will be no myths to analyze and understand if people are not permitted to live them out.

              Their should be religions, people should be allowed to worship G-d, but also we should understand why we need to do this and why it is vital to our psyche. What must change is imposing one thing as right. This religion is better than that. No religion is better than religion. It's just not humane to impose these things and the results are catastrophic to human life. Whether religion or ideology (I think they are the same by the way) people must choose their own path.  What we can do is make available the knowledge to understand them and for this knowledge to be made public in schools. So whether they choose to sleepwalk and live in a dream or wake up and make sense it is up to them, up to us.

              I am not ignoring the crimes of religious politics more than I ignore the crimes of politics. They are the same. The use of things that resonate in order to mesmerize people into doing something they would not otherwise do. I am just maintaining that the problem is not the presence of the concept G-d but the persistent ignorance of men.

              SO in that we agree. Religion and the belief in G-d must remain a thing that we study and use to intimate this mystery of the consciousness but should be left outside of politics, whether it be
              government or science itself.

              You cannot mandate the eradication of a belief system, you can only provide new avenues of understanding.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                It is not possible to explore the avenues of understanding that are available if you believe in myth as fact. People believe G-d as fact, and do not and cannot learn anything from this. That is my point - and always has been.

                I am not mandating anything other than the education of people. You seem quite happy ignoring the fact that god worship must create hierarchy, must create politics, must create wars.

                So - we "should," stop the insanity before it engulfs us all.

                1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                  ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  You are also conveniently forgetting that there are other aspects of religious life that is actually beneficial. People who believe in G-d are not horrible people. They strive to be helpful, they form communities that are cooperative. In most places, religious life is the source of community support.
                  During calamities, most people gather around churches and that becomes their temporary home.

                  It is not all bad, and I dare say, it outweighs the bad. It is religion that paved the way to mobilizing
                  civilization. It mesmerized people to gather. Joseph Campbell once said that you can see what a people values by the height of their edifices. In the renaissance, it was churches. Now what is the tallest structures? We symbolize the movements of our consciousness by what we create.

                  Now I understand the problem that you want to fix, believe me. It is superstitiousness, you want humanity to wake-up from being drugged.

                  But it was not intended to be a drug, it was intended to heal.

                  If you wish to wake people up, talk about  what the myths mean. Condemning them only makes
                  the myth stronger because you have made yourself a villain.

                  They say that the drones of Steve Jobs is mesmerized by a formula that Campbell has pointed out. A luminary with a vision for the future, and an enemy with an evil empire (microsoft).

                  This is computers, and yet see how myth naturally make mobs out of individual. It's the way we're wired. Now we could either condemn myth or understand it. The myth that masks the true face of G-d can only unfold by allowing life, knowledge and myth to co-exist.

                2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                  ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Mark if you want to free the world of maya, first sit in your own Bodhi Tree and there find the authority of the earth.

                  Translation,

                  Mark, you want to free the world of delusion, first, find your own path of illumination and know the harmony of existence from your own understanding.

                  Myth, powerful stuff.

        2. PieterTheProphet profile image60
          PieterTheProphetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yup.  Mark K, and cecilia.. we can not escape ourselves..this was like reading jazz.  Thank you!

  21. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago

    If you go to museums you will see many of the statues have dented noses. This is not widely known (and for good reason, people are dodging being blamed for defacing art) but the denting of the nose is a Judaic teaching. By denting the nose, you discourage people from worshipping the idols. Judaism had a breakthrough, the existence of idols prevents in the long term, understanding what it all means. But then Jewish Mysticism spread to europe and idols re-emerged in Christianity. They began as visual aids or methods of recording. But because of the great burning, the meaning got lost along the way and that's left is people kissing the feet of statues.

    In the east, Buddhism abolished the idols as well in the hopes of destroying the focus on the diagrams and the form but more on the meaning. What happened was it re-emerged as Buddha in his many postures. It just never never ends.

    Analyze and Preserve the meaning then teach it. Religion is about us, our consciousness and central to that is G-d, the idea of the enduring consciousness of man, its history and potential driving its evolution.

  22. qwark profile image60
    qwarkposted 6 years ago

    The brightest men in the history of mankind "KNOW" nothing.
    They were and are abjectly ignorant.
    When ya speak as if ya 'KNOW," about the metaphysical, ya turn me off.
    Man is a "newbie" impressed by the depth of his own ignorance.
    People kill each other over a "guess!"
    That should tell ya something about the "intelligence" of the human animal!
    Qwark

  23. 0
    ralwusposted 6 years ago

    It seems to me that it is hard enough to prove a positive, next to nil to prove a negative.

  24. brotheryochanan profile image60
    brotheryochananposted 6 years ago

    yes he does.

  25. TooEasy profile image60
    TooEasyposted 6 years ago

    If by God you mean Kanye West, yes, he does exist.

  26. TooEasy profile image60
    TooEasyposted 6 years ago

    I hired a private investigator to find this God fellow. I saw his profile on Myspace.

  27. prettydarkhorse profile image62
    prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago

    God exists in the minds of the people.

  28. 0
    Home Girlposted 6 years ago

    If you remove God and religions from people's lives, what's left then? World will be too naked, too complicated. That means that the only person left who is responsible for everything is YOU. - Too scary, too disturbing,and unconvenient; people don't like that.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I agree, but - we can make it. The world will still be wonderful and mysterious, and perhaps we could explore it more fully - without exploiting it?

    2. Pcunix profile image91
      Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      We ARE the only ones responsible. Maybe if more of us realized that, we would actually work toward a better world rather than expecting some fantasy to make it right.

  29. motricio profile image65
    motricioposted 6 years ago

    mmm BAZZINGA!

  30. 0
    zampanoposted 6 years ago

    what me worry...

  31. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Mark Knowles wrote ..
       I am not mandating anything other than the education of people. You seem quite happy ignoring the fact that god worship must create hierarchy, must create politics, must create wars.
    - - - - -

      I agree that Education is a good thing. Give me more.

      But I don't get where believing in a God Must Create Hierarchy. 
      Organized Religion maybe, but not an individuals belief.
    There is no hierarchy in individual belief regardless of how many individuals we are talking about.

       I must admitt though, that I get upset when watching them TV evangilists pushing their merchandice.
       I get upset and turn the danged thing off.
       They aren't pushing their stuff on me   and   I'm not getting upset if I change the channel.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      See history. Oh - that is right - you are not a big fan of actual history - are you?

      Still - what is important is you defending your irrational beliefs that do not cause conflict. It is only peopel who do not believe that cause the conflict. Sorry you have never read any other books. sad

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Generic statement that could be directed  at any comment.

          You are changing the subject.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No















          Not at all.
























                               Sorry you do no see that.













                           Still = defending god is impotnatnt.













          FRom the uinbelievers.
















          Please answer my questions. Oh - that is right - you do not need to. You have PROPHECY. lol

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I'm sorry;  I didn't see a question

               Accusations  maybe  ..   nothing that left room for an answer.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I understand. Best to avoid all the questions I have asked.

                              You are right,. God is love. PROPHECY rules!












              It is all me for not believing what you sed. Not u. U Never sed nufink.

              1. Jerami profile image78
                Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Is that a question?  Sure it is
                I just don't know the answer.

              2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                what is with all the wrong spelling! lol

          2. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            They who oppose God all go crazy after a while.
            It cannot be avoided.
            God calls it strong delusion
            i just call it
            payback! no smiting, just a swift deterioration of common sense
            lol

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              God does not exist. I am opposing people such as yourself who insist on causing conflicts - as you are doing now. The bible clearly tells you not to do this - yet you persist in doing so. Which proves to me that you do not actually believe it - you just want a fight. wink

              1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                hahaha too funny. You will go to any extreme to put forth your view but when Anybody else does the same thing that is opposite to your view, they are causing conflicts. When will the  lopsidedness of your extremity ever finish? Too me the obsessive phobia and anxiety of self justification is just too obvious. I am amazed at the thickness of the veil that surrounds peoples hearts and the lack of personal introspection. Say what you want but God does exist and i am sorry you think some latent or useless gene that has been persistent in people for 28 million years (lol) is just a random genetic mistake in people all over the world and throughout time. The consensus on this one is overwhelmingly against a no God scenario.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  And McDonalds is a popular hamburger chain, but I am not going to eat that rubbish. Yes - you are causing conflicts. As McChristianity has done since its inception.

                  1. Jerami profile image78
                    Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It doesn't matter the situation. 

                       Someone is going to have a concept;  whether true or false ? there will always be resistance and conflict as long as humanity has free will.
                       So if you think that religion causes conflict ?
                       Think again   BaCAUSE   conflict is in and of itself.

  32. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    I love this guys logic and presentation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdGwUd3ye_Y

    Still it does make it easy to locate all the local lunatics in one place!
    lol lol lol

  33. seanorjohn profile image80
    seanorjohnposted 6 years ago

    mark Knowles is just trying to get extra traffic by being controversial . It is working.Ignore his religious remarks. He just wants you to publicize himself.

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      yah its really hard for some people to step outta themselves even for a minute

  34. 0
    TilenHrovaticposted 6 years ago

    For me, God is Music. It's everywhere. It's in us. It's the sound smile

    1. pennyofheaven profile image83
      pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Very nice

    2. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      nice but useless.
      What is this god of music gonna do for you? Get you a number one best seller? congrats

  35. purple_girl profile image60
    purple_girlposted 5 years ago

    i personally think that God exists in each and every one of us, in different ways, depends on each how we perceive Him (or it). that's all,folks!

    1. pennyofheaven profile image83
      pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thats a good "thats all folks"!

  36. 69
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    Does God exist?

    The Creator-God does exist; and that is why we all exist?

  37. 69
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    Does God exist?

    The Creator-God does exist; if at all we should doubt or question then we should doubt or question our own existences as we are like an icon on the desktop of a computer; to be deleted with one or two clicks. Our existence is temporary and measureable in time dimension created by God-Allah-YHWH who does not die and is absolute in existence.

    If we reflect and see as to how we exist; that may guide us and help us to know of His existence.

  38. Joy56 profile image60
    Joy56posted 5 years ago

    Mark someone told me you were god, is it true, and have you any tomatoes in your greenhouse.

  39. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    oceansnsunsets wrote:
    Cagsil, It seems you are suggesting that God needs to be defined before he can even be discussed.
    ==========================================================

    When I read this post, I had to ask myself;  Can anyone else properly define who we are?  how much less adequately can we define something or someone that does not reside within the same physical environment as we do?

       Ask  the average Hawaiian to describe what it feels like to be hit in the face with a snow ball.
       Ask an Eskimo what it feels like to ride the big wave on a serf board. 
      This would not compare to asking someone to describe an entity whose main residence is in a different dimension.

  40. 59
    bidcactusreviewposted 5 years ago

    there are thousands of monotheistic sects that will kill you in the name of this imagined god thing. Believers in it, swear I'm wrong, but their history is indicative of them "speaking-with-forked-tongue

  41. PieterTheProphet profile image60
    PieterTheProphetposted 5 years ago

    Try this:  Don't think about God.

    FUN, FUN, FUN!

  42. PieterTheProphet profile image60
    PieterTheProphetposted 5 years ago

    Hey?  How come no one is talking about E.T(s)

  43. 69
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    Does God exist?

    Sure He does.

    The Creator-God does exist; if at all we should doubt or question then we should doubt or question our own existences as we are like an icon on the desktop of a computer; to be deleted with one or two clicks. Our existence is temporary and measureable in time dimension created by God-Allah-YHWH who does not die and is absolute in existence.

    If we reflect and see as to how we exist; that may guide us and help us to know more of His existence.

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Nice to see you spout off your imagination. hmm

  44. wilderness profile image96
    wildernessposted 5 years ago

    Does an omniscient, omnipotent, undetectable, extra-universal ET that loves us and demands our adoration exist?  Of course it does!  We know this because, well because we want it to!

 
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