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Channels of God's Grace

  1. profile image60
    haj3396posted 6 years ago

    It is the privilege of every soul to be a living channel through which God can communicate to the world the treasures of His grace, the unsearchable riches of Christ.

    1. pennyofheaven profile image80
      pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Privilege or natural state of being

    2. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      Yet God never communicates anything, because He is imaginary.

      1. profile image0
        rommergrotposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I can personally confirm that He is real.  Only a fool believes in his heart that there is no God.

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You can't personally confirm anything except maybe delusion. 

          And who are you calling a fool? 

          It is the believers who are the fools.  You have no evidence whatsoever of your alleged God, yet you boldly state such trash.

          Blindly and slavishly following the writings of Bronze Age goat herders, puts you in no position to call anyone a fool.

          Religion definitely causes a mental disconnect with reality.

          1. pennyofheaven profile image80
            pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yep being mentally detached always helps

            1. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



              That's absurd.

              1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Why?

                1. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  What would be the point?  What kind of "experience" would that be?  NOTHING!  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

                  1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                    pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes thats exactly it. That is the point. Out of nothing, there is something except you cant find that something unless you experience the nothing. Weird huh?

          2. Bianu profile image61
            Bianuposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I am healthy wealthy and wise and connected to God and all his creations. I am calm and balanced. He makes me so. I am delighted by how calmly you get through life when you acknowledge your maker.

        2. profile image0
          china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You cannot confirm god as real - there has never been any proof of its existence to provide confirmation.

          I know there is no god and I object to your arrogant claim that I am a fool - I guess those bits of your novel that you don't like you just ignore huh - like the being humble and all that stuff.

          1. profile image60
            haj3396posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            There is proof, you are the proof, you are no accident , you are wound-fully made. The world is proof, who made it but God. You are not a fool, you just believe in man more than God.

            1. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



              Your reasoning is flawed.  Please don't assume that just because we exist, that there is a God.  That is nothing but conjecture.

              Please provide some REAL proof.

              1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Imagination cannot be proved only experienced. And so it is with God.

                1. profile image0
                  china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Absolutely, god is only in the imagination.

                  1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                    pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    And what a powerful thing it is don't you think?

                2. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                  Delusions can only be experienced.  And so is the delusion of God.

                  Trying to prove a point, but not providing any proof is nonsensical.

                  1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                    pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Agree, delusions even of God can only be experienced. Whilst imagination or delusions can only be experienced, the results of imagination is highly evident and right in front of us. The results of delusion can also come to manifestation in different ways.......

                    Depends what proof you are talking about, physical, intellectual, spiritual?
                    The wind exists we know but we cant physically see the wind we only see the effect of the wind.

                    It also depends if one is trying to prove a point and I have nothing to prove. There is a difference between sharing a point of view and trying to prove a point. Your understanding is yours and mine is mine.... so be it. No harm no foul.

              2. profile image0
                Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                ___________________
                Just the cycles and seasons of everything, the male-female giving life to new creatures. The universe is orderly and not chaotic.

                1. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                  Why do you feel that opinion and conjecture will suffice when I requested REAL proof?

                  This has been debunked and dismissed already.

                  1. profile image0
                    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    ________
                    LOL BY who YOU?

          2. profile image0
            Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            ___________
            And how do you know? Where is your proof?

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Can you prove god isn't Satan in disguise?

          3. profile image0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I don't trust your "personal confirmation" - I very much doubt your relationship with God is anymore than mine was - one-sided

        3. pennyofheaven profile image80
          pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Wow you are so very close. Imagination is how the whole of creation was created. All that exists...even..the computer you are typing on was created by imagination.

          1. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



            Whose imagination?  And provide some proof to validate your assertions, if that's not too much to ask.

            1. pennyofheaven profile image80
              pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              We could be here indefinitely providing proof of whose imagination created all that exists, here are just a few examples which I am sure you know of already.

              Zonrad Zuse - 1st programmable computer
              Christopher Sholes - Typewriter
              The Wright brothers - Airplane
              Alexander Bell - Telephone
              Alexander Bain - Fax
              Thomas Edison - Light bulb

              Each of these inventors first needed an imagination to create what they created. If no imagination existed there is nothing to create.  Unless you know of some other way they were created? I am open to hearing your view if there is.

              1. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this


                A misunderstanding in communication--

                I was asking you about this sentence that you wrote, not the whole paragraph:

                "Imagination is how the whole of creation was created."

                Yes we know that Edison and the other inventors invented these products, but what do you mean by the "whole of creation?"
                Because man did not create the universe.  It wasn't man's imagination that created the universe.  I'm asking you, Whose imagination was it?

                1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                  pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh yes so it seems. Sorry about that.

                  If imagination created the things we know it has created. Would it not make sense that this imagination has created the universe. It also stands to reason it has an infinite potential to create more. What exists today in our world would have seemed so impossible many centuries ago.

                  This imagination,  some call it God some call it the infinite potential, or the nothingness. Our culture calls it the parentless.  Doesn't matter what we label it or how we choose to describe it. The power to create or destroy exists when certain conditions arise.

                  What conditions existed when the universes were created I don't know, I wasn't there as I know me today. So I couldn't tell you whose imagination it was.

        4. mandy1313 profile image60
          mandy1313posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          God is not IMAGINARY

          1. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



            Do you have proof?  Then let's hear it.

      2. profile image0
        Rare Jewelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Amen, I agree. smile

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You agree?  Well heck, if you had just posted earlier we could have avoided this entire discussion!  Well, I suppose this thread is over!  LOL!

      3. Kimberly Bunch profile image60
        Kimberly Bunchposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Please continue...I'm waiting....

    3. aka-dj profile image79
      aka-djposted 6 years ago

      If you want to know God, don't keep asking for "proof". NONE will be forthcoming.
      He DID promise that those who "seek Him, with all their heart WILL find Him".
      Fools, indeed. hmm

      1. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



        When will you understand simple reasoning?  You are asking that we all have rigid blind faith in something we can't detect with any of our senses, lest we be foolish, indeed.

        If I told you I owned a bridge on the planet Zolton, would any of you believers be foolish enough to purchase it?

        This is what religion is tantamount to, yet you are calling someone else foolish.  This is  EXTREMELY ABSURD!!!

        1. aka-dj profile image79
          aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I guessed correctly! big_smile

          You are NOT a seeker, just a cheap critic. sad

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Or perhaps he has an answer and you just don't like it?

            1. aka-dj profile image79
              aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              His answer is just that, his!
              I can live with that too. It's his, after all.

          2. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



            No Sir.  You called me a fool.  I simply defended myself against your unprovoked attack, now you cry foul, the way a psychopathic bully would behave.

            Just because I refuse to let you get away with ignorant fraudulent statements, you think you can label me. Your reply to my statement is irrelevant and absurd. 

            I would much rather be a cheap critic, than the delusional psychotic, believing in childish nonsensical fairytales--as you would like me to be..

            Why don't you actually read my posts, instead of disagreeing soley on the grounds that it does not fit your psychotic delusional beliefs? My posts represent the epitome of logic, yet you look right over that and label me a non-seeker?  A seeker of nonsense is no seeker at all.   

            Religious beliefs are pure GARBAGE!

            1. profile image0
              Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              _____________
              I am pretty sure he was just quoting scripture
              Psalm 14:1
              The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

              1. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                He still has to take responsibility for referencing an absurd and dishonest insult from the bible.  Since he quoted it, it is inferred that he agrees with it, therefore he is insulting anyone who doesn't agree with his foolish illogical beliefs.

                1. aka-dj profile image79
                  aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I'd say from the volume of your reply, you are insulting me ten-to-one. I merely categorised you as a non-seeker, thereby being a fool by definition in the Bible.
                  But, unlike you, I take no offence.
                  I hope your "epitome of logic" serves you well!


                  BTW, if the religion forum causes you such offence, then do yourself a favour, and stay out! It's ILLOGiCAL to place yourself, knowingly, into harm's way.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    So if I look up moron in the dictionary and use the definition as a reference to your intelligence, would that be okay with you?  Using the bible to insult someone is no different than quoting from any other book for the same purpose!  No breaks for the believers here, or I hope not for reasons of equality on this site!

                    1. aka-dj profile image79
                      aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      So, you think I'm a moron? Or are you calling me one?

                      Is that coming from your intimate knowledge of me
                      or just a logical, reasonable opinion, from a highly educated, tolerant intelectual?

                      BTW, was I TALKING to YOU?

                      Yet another (easily) offended, non-religious contributor to the RELIGION forum.

            2. Eaglekiwi profile image74
              Eaglekiwiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              No, get it right ,Gods word has called you a fool ( if you refuse wisdom)   for correction if adhered too ,but God always calls you (and me) many other names like 'beloved' 'precious' 'blessed' 'destined' there are many other positive titles all with a purpose, to edify,uplift and encourage.

              Much better than pulling down, critising or namecalling,dont ya think smile

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                The same goes for the words of Daniel Webster, who was considered a god to some and has his own book of beliefs.  As long as Daniel says the person is described in the holy dictionary by a particular word, it is okay to use it to insult someone in a post!  Or does this only pertain to a book only some believe in?

      2. profile image0
        china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        This is what the thread has been discussing - you will only find whatever you think it is in yourself, in your imagination. Living your life to the edicts of your own imagination is extreme arrogance - calling those who don't buy into your personal imaginary god 'fools' just displays that mindless arrogance.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image24
          Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It's funny, the Bile speaks of money 7 times greater than heaven and hell combined, not the mystic feeling I get from Jesus. It seems more disgraceful when you think of the money greed and what money has the least to do with happiness.

          Imagination is the most powerful tool; it can be used negatively or positive. I can't imagine people in the bible, can tell me how I should lead my life, when their life expectancy is only in the mid 20s . How can they teach me any better than people living in the now, at the age of 80?

          1. profile image0
            china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think you are answering soemone else post - but.  I think that there are loads of good information in the ancient texts about life and society.  When life was more simple in regard to what people understood of the world around them they only had society and personal relationships to think about.  Without the myopiae of religion that debases any meaning by talking of the metaphors as real things - then the information is clear and useful,  as is any other text.

          2. profile image0
            Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            ___________
            Please give the scripture about money to prove your 7X argument.
            Don't just post untrue statements to try and prove your point.

          3. profile image0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            the bile for the bible - seems appropriate

          4. Eaglekiwi profile image74
            Eaglekiwiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Quite the contrast ,people lived alot longer way back  ,because of diet and lifestyle.

            No big Macs way back then -no sir lol

      3. profile image0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I sought God with all my heart and didn't find him

    4. pennyofheaven profile image80
      pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago

      Yes the effect of moving air is wind.  Air is mostly oxygen which may be observed under an electron microscope.  In other words your statement that one cannot see wind is false!  Nothing more!

      Now if you can get a god under a microscope and see him looking sternly back at us through the eyepiece, I will certainly be more sympathetic to your conclusions!
      .................................................................................................................................................

      Sorry Randy did not have a reply button because we were going right off the page!

      Yes if we all had a microscope that is true. I am talking average people who don't have a microscope and only have use of the naked eye. We cannot see the wind but we can see the effects and we believe wind exists. We cannot see God but we can see the effects. We don't have scientific equipment to prove that yet but who will have access to them if and when they do? Only scientists... So lets say at some time in the future they discover the process of God (I didn't say I believed God was a him) and are adamant they have proof. Suddenly God exists because they have the equipment to prove it?

      Before microscopes were invented wind still existed.

      1. profile image0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        actually air is mostly nitrogen, not oxygen.  One doesn't need scientific equipment to know that air exists - can inflate a balloon for example

        1. mom101 profile image61
          mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          One doesn't need scientific equipment to know what turns a warm heart cold or what turns a cold heart warm either.

          1. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



            What turns a warm heart cold and a cold heart warm?  And just how do you determine(without scientific equipment) that your answer is correct.

            I personally would use a scientific piece of equipment called a thermometer, thus determining that the answer is the temperature.

            1. mom101 profile image61
              mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Using a thermometer is one way. It shows me that the user is not confident enough in themselves to make a rather easy observation.

              let me explain: well try to.  First, I can't see how a thermometer can measure the actions of  either a cold hearted or warm hearted person.

              Here is an example:  Of a warm heart turning cold

              We got a little boy starting school, kindergarten. He is a bubbly little boy. Always smiling, sharing, giving, but he is a little different than the other kids. Some kids make fun of him, day in/day out. As the years go by, the boy now in high school still being bullied, is withdrawn, sad, hardly speaks. He has reported the abuse over and over, only to be punished for "tatteling".....................................

              1. mom101 profile image61
                mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                getitrite.     It does not take science to determine what turns peoples hearts cold.

                1. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                  So what are the other methods, if science is not to be employed in the pursuit of determining how one arrived at a cold heart?

                  1. mom101 profile image61
                    mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    getitrite: you believe and defend science to the max. That is fine and well.

                    1. mom101 profile image61
                      mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      But do you think that maybe in some ways that same science is going to be used against us?

              2. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                How is this an example of anything to do with religion?  This happens in situations bereft of any religious influence!  Should we merely ignore delusion in others knowing it may cause even more strife in the future?

              3. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                You have just employed the science of psychology.  I thought you didn't need science to arrive at an answer.

            2. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Some do not need outside proof of anything, getitrite! They are simply satisfied by their own delusional conceptions and look no further than what they wish things to be.  Perfect candidates for religious nonsense.  The Jonestown massacre is a perfect example of this type of "blind faith."

              1. mom101 profile image61
                mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Randy, do you agree that it might also be said that the events at columbine were a product of a warm heart turned cold?

                1. mom101 profile image61
                  mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  My point in this is, instead of trying to tear one another down for what they believe, and causing bad feelings, why can't we channel the energy used in doing that into something progressive?

                  We are headed for some very rough times. Believers and non-believers are going to have to get along.

                  1. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                    Agreed.  But it would be much easier if believers were cured of their psychosis first.

                    1. mom101 profile image61
                      mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      That goes both ways does it not?

                2. Randy Godwin profile image92
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  You are confusing "hearts" with attitudes, Mom!  One's heart stays at roughly the same temperature no matter the thoughts or actions of the owner.

                  Those who gave their children the poisoned Kool-Aid were no different than you!   They convinced themselves they were doing the right thing and did not want to face reality! 

                  Do you think their faith was any less than yours, or is your faith more true than theirs?  How warm was those peoples hearts?  They simple refused to face reality, much as you do when you refuse to look for substantiation of your beliefs other than "I believe because I want to."

                  1. mom101 profile image61
                    mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    My point to any scenario was exactly as you just mentioned. Reality.

                    It has nothing to do with the actual temperature of an organ.

                    People get so  overwhelmed with reality that they lose any sense of reality.

                    People go through hard knocks, bullying, extensive hard times, and so much more that their hearts are hardened.

                    It is a crying shame that we treat anyone this way.

                    Humanity? We are losing site of what it is.

                    1. getitrite profile image80
                      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                      Ok, so you have just described some aspects of the sciences of Psychology and Sociology.  I thought you had no use for science in determining anything.  You seem to believe in science to the max.

                    2. Randy Godwin profile image92
                      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Once again, this type of behavior has always been around, Mom!  It has nothing whatsoever to do with your god.  You can blame the lack of faith on such actions but you see the same thing from those claiming to be enlightened.  You know, those thinking they are god's chosen who believe others are not right in their own thinking and will go to hell. 

                      Judging those based on an old novel with no basis in fact seems rather crude when the answers are there for those not afraid to learn about science.

              2. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                A disturbing reality!

                1. mom101 profile image61
                  mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Why do say disturbing?

                  1. mom101 profile image61
                    mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    How can science comfort? We know science can heal, at least for now, but even at that, when they go to altering plant life, anyway you look at it, medicine is bam altered as well.

                    Let's look at sweeteners for example. Let's say they alter the sugar, put it in sodas, people drink them, and ya know, there is always a little left in the bottle/can. A week later, a colony of ants find the remains and feast on it. 5 or six generations later do you think this has alterd the ants at all?

                    There are some major scary concerns on the horizon. We have to start thinking for ourselves, and together.

                    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Funny you should mention "thinking for ourselves."  Does this mean denying the facts because they do not fit your delusion?

                    2. getitrite profile image80
                      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                      So I suggest you stop using anything that has derived from science.  You'd be surprised how many things and concepts you will need to give up.

                  2. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                    Do you think it would be disturbing if I still believed in Santa Claus as a middle-aged ADULT?

                    Religion is comparable to an adult still believing in childhood fairytales, and that is disturbing.  It doesn't matter that billions believe it.  In fact, that makes it even more disturbing.

                    1. mom101 profile image61
                      mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Science can be a great thing. But, if one were to "believe" in only it, that person is in essence putting their fate into someones hands.

            3. Eaglekiwi profile image74
              Eaglekiwiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              But how was it determined before the thermometer was invented? ,or anything for that matter.

              Food for thought,perhaps

              1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Excellent food for thought.

                I would be interested to know too.

                As an aside;
                Before maps and compasses were invented our people used the stars to navigate across the sea. Some still do.

          2. profile image0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            this "heart" seems to be a slippery and vague concept - it's not the organ that pumps blood around the body you are referring to. 

            Seems to be referring to feelings.  I've learned not to trust feelings - feelings are a delusion

            1. Castlepaloma profile image24
              Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I trust my feeling, thats like leading with the  heart, shortly followed by the mind.

              1. mom101 profile image61
                mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yep, but has your head and your heart ever been against each other or maybe even in agreement?

              2. profile image0
                Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I don't trust my feelings.  I am very sensitive to food chemicals - eg salicylates that are naturally present in  fruit - these chemicals mess with my brain and  trigger a depressed mood.  I have to wait for it to wear off - a few hours or a few days depending on dose.  During this time, I don't feel very positive about things or very worthwhile.
                These feelings are not truth.

            2. pennyofheaven profile image80
              pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Depends where your feelings arise from. Sometimes they arise from past experience and conditions, other times they come from a place deep inside you. That quiet voice within that often cannot be heard through the noise of our minds or ego if you like.

              Logic or the mind sometimes can lead us to believe we have limited strength. Yet given the right environmental conditions, that which is deep within can override the logic of our minds if we allow it to.

              Like when a mum who can lift a car to save her baby. Logically her mind will say its impossible but when the mind is out of the way and the heart of hearts rises to the occasion. What was impossible becomes and extraordinary feat that goes against what logic held to be true.

              1. mom101 profile image61
                mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                pennyofheaven,  that is so true.

                But, the sad thing is, this logic is just not scientific enough for their minds to understand.

                The battle that is being fought is not between each other.

                This neither can they or do they choose to see.

                1. profile image0
                  Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  which battle are you referring to - spiritual?

              2. profile image0
                Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                where does the "heart of hearts" originate?  You mean the will?  Intuition?  Attachment emotions? Surely that's in the brain too

                1. mom101 profile image61
                  mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  baileybear, if I understand correctly, you don't believe in God?

                2. pennyofheaven profile image80
                  pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  How to explain the unexplainable...mmm.....yes it's there but doesn't originate there because it has no beginning and no end. So I don't know. When looking at a circle can you tell where its starts and finishes?

        2. pennyofheaven profile image80
          pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yes that is the effect of wind as I have mentioned before.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Cool!  Inflate a balloon with god and I'll be more attentive to your opinions!

            1. pennyofheaven profile image80
              pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              How do you know thats not what your inflating it with?

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Well, when I finally get it blown up it has big boobs and looks more like a "goddess" than a god!

                1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                  pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Haha the imagery is too funny! Thanks for the laugh.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    The same to you!  LOL!

      2. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        This is still provable evidence of wind or moving air.  But so far there is no evidence of your unseen deity, just as there is no evidence of all the many other past gods worshiped over the ages.

        Using your logic, is it possible all of the other supposed gods exist?  There is no more proof of them than the one you claim to believe in, is there?

        Do you think it possible they exist also?  A gaggle of gods perhaps?

        1. pennyofheaven profile image80
          pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Amazing, for me, this discussion is now merging with another discussion on the same thread.

          Evidence of Gods existence or perhaps I should describe it as the effects (to keep in line with the descriptions used so far) of Gods existence can be seen in everything that is manifest. 

          No we do not have any equipment that can analyze the process of how we and all things in the manifest were created.

          We do however know that much of what is created for mans comfort and convenience came from imagination. Rather than go through the whole dialogue on Imagination again you might want to read it..... or not.

          Imagination exists yet we cannot see it. We see the effects or results of imagination and yet some do not question its origin nor do some people contemplate on the infinite capabilities of it. Why? Because its called imagination and not God.

          Whatever we label this powerful source of creation (and destruction I might add) will not change its function.

          This brings me to your "other Gods" statement. Whatever the different cultures, people, sects, religions choose to call this source  (for me anyway) seem to be labeling the same function.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Delusion often masquerades as imagination!  And because you attribute natural things to god means nothing to any one but you!  I could very well say I see Satan in all churches, but like you, it would only be my take on it.  Neither of us can disprove the other delusions, right?

            1. pennyofheaven profile image80
              pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Right!

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I'm glad I don't have any such delusions to try and convince others of!  I have science instead!

                1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                  pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Okay if you say so.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I can prove science exists, ya know!  I've got a book!  And if the book says......

                    1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                      pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      lol

    5. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago

      Ngetitrite wrote
      ...

         No Sir.  You called me a fool.  I simply defended myself against your unprovoked attacked,

      - - - - --

         HMmmm ?

      1. mom101 profile image61
        mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        everyone has the right to denial. it's a sad thing actually.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          True!  But denial can work both ways!  Denial of the truth, or denial of falsity!

    6. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago

      Sometimes the religion and phylosophy forums remind me of the story of the three bears ....
           only difference is


         Popa bear says YOUR  porage is too cold   AND  ...
      Mama bear  says NO YOUR porage  is too HOT ... 
      Back and forth  and back and forth ...


      And baby bear got tired of hearing that crap, didn't care if it was hot or cold...   and ate his/hers then ....
      went out side to play.

          Baby bear comes back in later ...  they are still argueing ...    don't matter any more if it is hot or cold cause the flies has gotten to it by then.


      getitrite,   do you see anyone you know  in this metaphore ?
      Bet ya can't guess which one ya are playing ?

      1. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I think that babybear should go back outside and play.

      2. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        But if one of the bears has a thermometer, the point is moot, Jerami!

        And if the bears can talk, they probably would have no problem obtaining a thermometer!  Sorry, your analogy starts out with an impossibility which adds immediate confusion to your example!

        Got anything based in reality to show your point?

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          That seems to be the whole aim of his assertions.  Most of them are way off point and irrelevant.



          Sorry, that's about the best you are gonna get. smile

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Dang!  I wanted to hear about Little Red Riding Hood and how the wolf got saved!

            1. mom101 profile image61
              mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Woul ya listen?

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Sure, but I wouldn't necessarily believe the tale just because it was in an old book!  LOL!

          2. fits3x100 profile image60
            fits3x100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Ok. "Unprovoked attack"... Sorry Mark and getitrite, these Christians did not respond to your posts...in a forum titled atheist anything...and call YOU irrational or Psychotic. That was you. Get that right.
            If you have ever witnessed the birth of anything...and still deny intelligent design, your faith is greater than mine to be sure. Your religion more solidly rooted.
            Read the book of Job...oldest book in the "Novel" . Notice the complete and totally correct description of the hydrological cycle...written by a "middle east goat herder" that wasn't even described in it's completeness by anyone else until the 19th century.
            Notice too the discussion of ice....behemoth...leviathan...
            More and more physicist's are leaning towards intelligent design.
            Agreed, Churches have done more to harm God's image in mankind than all of the  atheist combined. But, understand, not all believers match your mental image, just as not all un-believers match mine...eh?
            Oh yes...the description of "testing wind and finding air is un-empirical at best. Wind is not air. Wind is the force behind or in front of Atmospheric masses segregated by temperature and water content, causing them to collide and move...millions of variables at work... I'm not smart enough to make that happen globe wide...let alone in a little tiny test tube.

            1. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



              But these Christians DID use abusive language, whenever there was nothing but level-headed discussion coming from the nonbeliever camp.  That is unprovoked.



              I prefer to think that your mind is not as expansive.



              So there is a little truth in a book of profound absurdities otherwise.  This proves nothing.



              Is that true, or are you being dishonest like many religionist are?  Could you point me to an unbiased source to corroborate your claim that more and more physicists are leaning towards Intelligent Design?



              It's not just the church, it is the insane beliefs, themselves, that are so conflicting.  You are no different from the church.



              I think most of us know that.  But some of us would rather be dishonest and pretend that the answer is:  GODDUNIT!

              1. fits3x100 profile image60
                fits3x100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Foul.  You and your pals have called believers here delusional more times than I can count. I've heard precious little  name calling or sloppy generalizations from their camp towards yours.

        2. Jerami profile image77
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Have you ever seen a bear holding a thermoter?

             They don't in my neck of the woods,  you silly squirl. LOL

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            And how many talking bears eating porridge have you observed, Jerami?  Your example, not mine!  LOL!  You brought it into the conversation!  Now who's a "silly squirt"?  Doh!

            1. Jerami profile image77
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I'm guessing that there are at least two of us.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I know there are many more than just two of you!  LOL!

                1. Jerami profile image77
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  NO man ... we are together in that one.

                     You silly squirrel.

    7. Woman Of Courage profile image60
      Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago

      The discussion about the air and the wind is very interesting. We can't see the wind, but we know it's there. smile I can't see God's face, but I know he is there. Wow! big_smile

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Wow! So is the Star Goat. You cannot see it, but because you cannot see the wind - the Star Goat vomited the Earth. Wow! Another Star Goat follower. Welcome. lol

      2. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It is really quite amazing that this argument is still being used as it is almost one of the most fallacious and fabricated arguments believers embrace. And, no matter how much they are shown it to be so, they continue to use it as if in the very next moment they completely forgot what they were shown.

        It's hard to believe they aren't arguing that fish float in midair considering they can't see the water through their aquariums. smile

      3. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        How do you know which god you are referring to?

      4. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



        Superb logic.  Ok, just because I can't see the Flying Spaghetti Monster's face, doesn't mean He is not there, because I know that he is there?

        ...and the Pink Unicorn
           Zeus
           Appollo
           Crum
           Hercules
           Santa...

                                                      Ramen

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Sure, the believers have to admit these all exist too!  Unless of course, they can prove otherwise!

          1. fits3x100 profile image60
            fits3x100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            William A. Dembski makes some thoughtful observations. I would suggest reading his work at http://www.designinference.com/document … OR_ID.pdf. I admire your fire. And bless your heart fella's, I've seen a lot more jammin' and crammin' of hypothesis on your parts here then the believers... I'm really encouraged by their patience and delivery...gives me great hope that Jesus has some really decent followers!
            As far as unbiased views go, search the debate regarding origins of the universe at all the sites.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Jammin and crammin meaning BS?  LOL!  And of course, you are not biased?

              Your link doesn't work!  Satan's work, unless you can prove otherwise! Doh!

    8. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago

      @ get it rit  ... A person does not have to be "edjucimcated" to be inteligent.

         Last year I didn't even know whut a Enjinere  wuz and now I are one.   Just kidding ...  but you know what I'm talking about.

    9. evvy_09 profile image81
      evvy_09posted 6 years ago

      It amazes me how many religious people fail to understand Faith means "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence" this is from the American Heritage Dictionary. 
      There is a God but I don't think it is what most people think he is or most religions.  I'm not part of any religions because what I have seen, it causes more conflict and hatred than most anything else. I went to a Catholic school for years before insisting on going to a public.  Funny how the exact type of pointless hatred went on in both schools.
      I am always open to the possibility that I am wrong.  People used to swear that the sun revolved around the Earth but they Were proven wrong eventually. 
      But I do ask that if you are a believer to please, PLEASE stop throwing around absurd proof that there is a god.  It makes believers look bad and it's just annoying. 
      I have found that if someone constantly feels the need to prove themselves, it only means that they are trying to squash that doubt telling them they are wrong.  That last sentence does go for both sides of the discussion.  smile
      But aside from all that, I hope everyone has a Awesome holiday season and is having fun preparing to make 2011 even better!!!

      1. fits3x100 profile image60
        fits3x100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The Church actually threatened Galileo's life because he suggested the Earth was a sphere...They should have read both Job and Genesis...More than a few of the Prophets too described the Earth and planets as spherical...

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          So, the church didn't read or understand the bible?  Sounds like today!

        2. mom101 profile image61
          mom101posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          fits3x100, welcome to the hubpages. Glad to see ya in here. Hope your sleeves are rolled up good n tight, the road in some of these here forums get kinda bumpy.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I disagree!  As long as one doesn't resort to using unprovable statements the road is as smooth as glass!

          2. fits3x100 profile image60
            fits3x100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks Mom. Abortion rates through the roof, broken families(I started coaching Varsity sports in the 90's, 30-40% of the kids were dealing with divorce, this year 2 out of 14 were raised with their bio-parents.) Violence in schools,homes, churches... This is nothing. I appreciate their passion, channeled correctly...it could change the world!

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Are we to assume that you know the proper way to channel these things correctly while others of us do not?  Are you from the bible belt?

              1. fits3x100 profile image60
                fits3x100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                hehehe...nope. I had my time of persecution at those hands! Man Randy, I wish I had the whole answer to that one. And anyone...not just you or me with passion? Can change the world eh? I'm hopin' all of us here want a better world for our kids than the one we're leaving.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  There is no doubt we want our kids to have it better!  But teaching them a mysterious deity is watching them is not the way to go!  They must understand the world and how it really works, not that an imaginary being is running everything!

        3. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          please quote the part in the bible where it says the earth is a sphere (and not a circle - which is flat)

    10. seanorjohn profile image80
      seanorjohnposted 6 years ago

      mark Knowles is into negative marketing. Go on,threaten to sue me. He makes fun of religion and gets loads of traffic.

      1. Uninvited Writer profile image82
        Uninvited Writerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Mark doesn't need this forum to get traffic, internal Hub traffic is practically useless to earning money anyway.

      2. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Like you know all about getting traffic!  HOO!

      3. fits3x100 profile image60
        fits3x100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        hehehe... arguing about faith for hits! Genius! And Thanks seanorjohn, .. motives motives motives...

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I would not advise a newcomer to listen to senorjohn concerning how to attract traffic to your hubs, fits!  I would normally refer to his belief that Mark is trying to get traffic as delusional, but you seem not to favor the word.

          1. fits3x100 profile image60
            fits3x100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            yeah...kinda seems presumptuous... for me at least. I don't know anyone here well enough to call them delusional...hehehe... not sayin'

            I  did just post on the other thread we've been bouncing around with a question for you re/ origins of the universe and am really interested on your thoughts... If you get time tonight. I'll be back on in the pm tomorrow and touch base.
            Thanks!

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I'll surely check it out, sounds interesting!  You are correct about not knowing anyone here well enough to call them delusional! 

              But you will, you seem able to separate fact from fiction better than some on these threads!  You might even use the word yourself despite your present feelings! HA!

              1. habee profile image91
                habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                We don't know anyone here well enough to call them delusional? Well, actually...LOL!!

    11. Eaglekiwi profile image74
      Eaglekiwiposted 6 years ago

      Keyword 'Courteous'

      Treat one another courteously "Jesus said"

      One person believes,another does not.

      One person beleives in pink elephants, another does not.( my words)

      Thats ok with me,cuz Im a gonna be courteous.

      You be you, and I be me. smile

      1. fits3x100 profile image60
        fits3x100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Wise Eaglekiwi...Wise.

    12. Eaglekiwi profile image74
      Eaglekiwiposted 6 years ago

      Thank you Fits ,sometimes I even surprise myself lol

      Welcome to Hubpages by the way!

    13. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago

      getitrite wrote:


      I personally would use a scientific piece of equipment called a thermometer, thus determining that the answer is the temperature.
      - - - -

         What piece of scientific equipment would ya use to determine how big a persons pride is?
         
          What would you use to measure how much you love your wife or children?

          How many things can we not measure yet determine it to be too much or not enough?

    Closed to reply
     
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