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Jesus not God according to Bible

  1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
    Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago

    Peace Christian freindz!

    Can any Christian Answer the following Questions?


    1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not.
    YES, NO, NOT SURE


    2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not.
    YES, NO, NOT SURE


    3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
    YES, NO, NOT SURE


    4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood.
    YES, NO, NOT SURE


    5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus acknowledged.
    YES, NO, NOT SURE


    6. God can't be tempted....but Jesus was tempted by the devil.
    YES, NO, NOT SURE

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Ahmad:
      Jesus who?
      God who?
      What do you "imagine" them to be?
      Are you expecting folks to offer that which they "imagine?"
      Hmmm?
      Qwark

      1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
        Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus = Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Mary, Christ

        God = Father

        1. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Ahmad:
          Why did you offer those as answers?
          They are just trite religious opinions based on fairytale.
          If you want people to take you seriously,
          Plsss...Get real!
          Qwark

          1. luvpassion profile image59
            luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Relax Mr\Ms Ahmad....Mr qwark is only pretending to be a ba@t#rd... lol

          2. Ahmad Usman profile image81
            Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Friend this is not a fairy tale, I will prove every thing from the Bible with exact chapters and verses, right?

            Perhaps you might not answer it, thats why for you it may be un-interesting. BUT for those who want to seek TRUTH, these are the Questions of concern.

            1. qwark profile image61
              qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Ahmad:
              Pls offer just one (1) "truth" from the fairytale bible.
              There is no one alive today who can do that!
              All you can do is offer what is written in a book that has been so corrupted by time and interpretation that there isn't a word of it that can be considered to be "credible."
              You use the word "prove" and you will do that with words in biblical chapters and verses.
              If you want folks to take you seriously, you have to get "real."
              So far you impress me as being an easily led follower.
              Tch, tch. roll
              Qwark

              1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                So you are an Athiest. Anyway, these questions are for Christians.

                For you, Bible may be fairy tale and unrealistic BUT for Christians it is the word of God.

                So i think you are commenting on a wrong forum.

                1. qwark profile image61
                  qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Ahamd"
                  There you go! Why do you presume I'm an atheist just because I disagree with you?
                  First, lets get this straight,I am not an atheist, agnostic, deist or a believer in fairytale divinities.
                  Ahmad this "forum" isn't just for believers in religious fiction. You may write in the "religion and philosophy" category but all of us have an opportunity to respond. Correct?
                  If you can't put up with the heat-in-the-kitchen, don't come in the kitchen.
                  You don't even "KNOW" what this "god" thing is that you tout as being real.
                  Your imagination has run over your ability to be rational.
                  You are a "follower" who's beliefs in this "god" thing are based upon "ZILCH."
                  ...just tellin' it as I see it.
                  Qwark  roll

                  1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                    Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    NO! Actually you have the same point as I have that the Bible is not 100% the word of God and it has been corrupted.

                    You said that it is not credible, I said that it may not be credible for you or me BUT for Christians, it is credible.

                    Hope you understand my point.

                  2. christiansister profile image60
                    christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Just curious Qwark what do you believe?

                  3. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Qwark why do you see it as your personal mission to  interogate anyone  who professes to have a faith or a opinion about God?  lol

                    As you have  pointed out several times your own opinion .ie. fairytales, or  imaginary characters, then be adult enough to allow others to express their's.

        2. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          As usual Ahmad your knowledge of tjhe bible is indeed corrupt I hope you know the book of hearsay the Quran better because it is pure HEARSAY.

    2. christiansister profile image60
      christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not.
      YES that is true according to Revelations Even Jesus does know the end of times. Only God the Father knows.

      2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not.
      YES That is true. Jesus says he can do only what the Father gives him the power to do.

      3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
      YES that is true

      4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood.
      None of these is exactly correct. Jesus, just as humans, was Flesh and Spirit. But now he is transformed into his eternal form of a glorified body, but the Bible says that we will be transformed into a glorified and perfected body.

      5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus acknowledged.
      No one is greater than God True. I dont understand the part about the acknowledged part.

      6. God can't be tempted....but Jesus was tempted by the devil.
      YES that is true. But, God was challenged by Satan and God has given Satan a time to prove his challange.

      1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
        Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So Do you still think Jesus was God? or a prophet sent by God?

        1. christiansister profile image60
          christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I don't understand why everyone thinks that Christians believe that Jesus is the Abba Father. Jesus is my Savior and the Son of God. I know the difference between God the Father and my  Savior Jesus.

          I was created by the Father, Redeemed by the Son, and continually call out to be directed by the Holy Spirit.

          Christianity, has been lumped under one big label.

          But, just as with Islam there are differing schools of thought and arguements about doctrine amoung the vastly different denominations.

          I am very contriversial to many indoctrinated Christians because of what I get from reading the Bible and the understanding I recieve in the Spirit.

          1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
            Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            ---> Well in Islam, we have different schools of thought BUT our basics of faith are the SAME.

            All the prophets stressed on the concept of 1 God. The first commandment of the Jews is: "Thou shall not take any god except One God" [Deuteronomy 6:4]. Jesus is reported to have said: The Lord God, the Lord is One" [Mark 12:29]. Similarly, God says in the Quran "Your God is One God; there is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful" [Quran 2:163].


            ---> Regarding Jesus being the son of God, in fact the terms “father”and “son” were used metaphorically, not literally. Son indicated a righteous person, as this verse makes clear:

            "Blessed are the peace-makers; they will be called sons of God." (Mathew; 5:9).

            If you are a righteous person then you are also a son of God. Similarly, the term “father” was used by the Hebrews to indicate the Spiritual Father, not the literal father. For about 400 years, the Christians believed Jesus to be just a prophet. It was later that the Church adopted the pagan concept of “son of God.”

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7bU7BH91C0

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLqA8-uZl5w


            Read II Samuel 7:13-14 or I Chronicles 22:10:
            "He [Solomon] shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father and he shall be my son..."

            ---> It will be confusing if you read Jeremiah 31:9:
            "1 am a father to Israel and Ephraim is my firstborn."

            While In Exodus 4:22:
            "And thou [Moses] shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel(Jacob) is my son, even my firstborn."

            Now who is now the real firstborn? Israel or Ephraim?


            ---> People can be children of God; Read Deuteronomy 14:1.

            . "Ye are the children of the Lord your God."

            "Son of God" is the same as "Servant of God" in Hebrew!

            1. qwark profile image61
              qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Ahmad:
              Be honest pls.
              Why do you believe in this god/allah myth.
              Is it out of the realm of possibility for you to offer anything but "opinion/conjecture?"
              I think it is.
              Qwark  smile:

              1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Allah is the creator of everything in this universe. He is the God of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

                Answer just 1 question....Prophet Muahhamd was an illiterate man, how he knew all the scientific facts mentioned in the Quran which was revealed to him from God BUT are discovered recently by the scientists?

                http://www.scienceislam.com/scientists_quran.php

                Please go and read the book "The Bible, The Qur'an and Science" by Dr. Maurice Bucaille.

                1. qwark profile image61
                  qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Ahmad:
                  You absolutely refuse to answer my question! Why is that?
                  All you offer is opinion i.e. "Allah is the creator of everything in this universe. He is the God of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad."
                  Be a thoughtful and considerate fellow and try to answer this for me: Why do you believe in this god/allah thing?
                  Pls try to answer me in other than opinion or conjecture...unless you have some new and fantastic empirical evidence for me to consider that would make your opinion worthy of consideration.
                  TY.
                  Qwark  smile:

                  1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                    Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    This is neither conjecture nor my opinion BUT its all there mentioned in the Quran. God is the creator of everything.

                    You are desperate to know the existence of God, right? Through SCIENTIFIC FACTS mentioned in the Quran, i will prove to you the existance of Allah + Quran is indeed the word of God, i.e. to kill two birds with one stone.

                    Are you Ready?

                  2. skipper112 profile image61
                    skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I agree Qwark all Ahmed can do is make incomplete statements, he has nothing credible to offer. He makes great statements ' THAT IS IS SO EASY TO PROVE'  but when asked to do just that he is like a school boy with his hand in the cookie Jar. He fall back on the same old worn out sayings and FAILS to do as he promised.
                    Yes mate I am Catholic but I belive all religions have the right to live in peace. Qwark thank you we both know Ahmed is good at starting insults but  the knowledge to enable him to prove his point is sadly lacking.
                    Have a good day Qwark and may your God go with you.

            2. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Ahmed as qwak said be honest please you do not give any proof of your statements. Give proof ( as you are using the Bible) give proof from Bible.

              I am still waiting for you to give me the proof you say you have to prove the Quran, and prove Mohammed did get the last word from God ( and NOT the Mormans)

              I know you lack the proof to support your stupid statements Ahmed so it looks like I will wait untill HELL FREEZES OVER for any answer from you.
              I guess you just use cheep lies then  hide behind your cheep uniformed mouth. Get real Ahmad put up or shut up, WERE IS THE PROOF YOUR BIG MOUTH SAYS YOU HAVE


              are you able to do it Ahmed...................................... I'm waiting

            3. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Exodus 4-22 "So you shall say  to Pharaoh: Thus says the Lord:Israel is my son, my first born." opps Ahmad.

            4. 0
              jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              it is still your beliefs only Ahamed.  and people always make mistakes when they act on emotions.

      2. Ahmad Usman profile image81
        Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Christiansister

        4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood

        While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.

    3. Ruben Rivera profile image81
      Ruben Riveraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      We're all part of God

    4. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      ________________
      I don't believe in the Muslim bible, but I know Yahshua (Jesus) was not God. His name was also not Jesus.

      This was a trick of Paul.

    5. Dave Mathews profile image60
      Dave Mathewsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Question (1) you are wrong God and Jesus are one and the same.
      Question (2) You are wrong God and Jesus are one and the same.
      Question (3) You are wrong God is God Jesus is Son of God.
      Question (4) God is 100% Spirit Jesus is 100%Spirit,But         took on a Fleshly  Body as God He could do this.
      Question (5) You are wrong God and Jesus are one and the same.
      Question (6) You are wrong Jesus permitted satan to try.

      Answer me this. What is the one thing God can never do?

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Wonderful logic of contradiction.



        Exist. smile

        1. Dave Mathews profile image60
          Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I guess you don't really want the truth you only wish to spout garbage.

          1. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Contradictions aren't truth, they're just contradictions. smile

      2. Momma Mia profile image78
        Momma Miaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        God will not take ones free will ! Although he could.......
        God will not take back his promise.........although he could
        God can't stand his name taken in vain ......nor can I

      3. 0
        jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        try square circle or parallel line that meet

  2. luvpassion profile image59
    luvpassionposted 6 years ago

    Perhaps you wouldn't mind giving answers from a Muslim point of view...just to make the conversation more interesting... :thanks. wink

  3. 0
    Home Girlposted 6 years ago

    I love Hubpages, you can always meet interesting ... people(what do you think?), here... yikes

    1. kirstenblog profile image77
      kirstenblogposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It's probably worth popping some popcorn to have while following this thread lol

  4. qwark profile image61
    qwarkposted 6 years ago

    Jesus?  Jesus who?
    How can one consider sumthin' no one knows anything about? Hmmm?
    Qwark

  5. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 6 years ago

    Why is it so important whether Jesus was literally God, or a son of God and a prophet?  Does it change the message? Does it change modern morality? Or does it just give two essentially identical religions a reason to indulge in conflict over an abstract argument?

    1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
      Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sister it is very important. Ascribing partners with 1 God and believing that he begets or is begotten is the biggest sin which God will never ever forgive. This is called SHIRK.

      YES it has changed the whole message and morality. when you believe that Jesus is the son of God and he already paid for the SINS of mankind and Christians keeps on commiting vices like adultery, murder, rape etc etc and all is justified bcoz Jesus was crucified on the cross for mankind. This is absolute absurdness.

      Some people think that since Jesus (PBUH) had no human father then God must be his father. The Quran rejects this view. The position of Jesus with God is comparable to the position of Adam with God. Just because Adam had no human parent does not mean we should call him the Son of God.

      "Lo! the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. (Quran 3:59)

      1. christiansister profile image60
        christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The vices that you speak of being commited by christians are commited by Muslims as well correct? Or, have Muslims perfected themselves to the degree that they no longer sin and are in no need of Grace?

        1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
          Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Ohhhh my God! when did i say that Muslims are PIOUS? you are absolutely right we Muslims might be more sinful than any other humans BUT the point here is that we Muslims believe that whatever we do, we will be accountable for everything in the hereafter while Christians believe that they are not accountable bcoz Jesus already piad for their sins on the cross, right?

          May God almighty guide all of us to the true religion. Aameen.

          1. christiansister profile image60
            christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            On the contrary, christians are called to strive to avoid being sinful. Because Jesus was crucified does not excuse us from being accountable. It makes us more accountable for willful sinning.
            And we are called to repent and strive daily to be more like Jesus.
            But, because we cannot achieve Holy Righteousness on our own account. We can confess that Jesus did and turn our hearts over to him and share in his inheritence.
            How is it that Muslims believe that they become forgiven, or how do they gain acceptence into the Kingdom?

            Living by the Scales means what exactly?

          2. skipper112 profile image61
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I agree follow the only God that said he loves you, not Allah but My Lord Jesus Christ.
            There is no were in the Qural that says Allah 'loves you' how sad.
            Christians ARE accontable at Judgement day when we die. But unlike Muslims we can't do a act of terror blow our selves up and get a FREE ticket to 'paridise' and 72(sic) virgins. To me that is so sick.

            1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
              Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus said to LOVE? Read then:

              ---> According to the Bible, the mission of Jesus was to spread enmity which we MUSLIMS believe is an absolute fallacy and blasphemous.

              I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother. (Matthew 10:34-35)

              If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

              skipper I hope you become a good disciple of Jesus. LOL


              Now Now Read what your Living Lord Jesus, the maker of Heavens and Earth, said in the Old Testament:

              Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each kill his brother and friend and neighbour. (Exodus 32:27)

              Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (1 Samuel 15:2-3)

              However, in the cities of the nations the lord your GOD is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." (Deuteronomy 20:16)

              Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl (VIRGIN) who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31: 17-18)


              ---> Jesus (Christian God) wants 32 virgin women for himself!! LOL!!

              The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.............16,000 people, of which the tribute for the LORD was 32.  (Numbers 31:32-40)

              1. libby101a profile image60
                libby101aposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You realize that the Qu'ran is 100 times worse in everything you've brought up!  LOL!!! I've quoted quite a few in the past! But I find it useless anymore! What's the point in pointing out another religion's Holy book??? It does you no good except probably makes you look bad!

              2. 0
                jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                try this Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.

      2. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        But Ahmed were is your EASY PROOF of the Quran being the last word of God, looks like the Mormans even trumped Mohammed. Now I know why you have shut up. score Mormans 1 Islam nil

  6. Greek One profile image80
    Greek Oneposted 6 years ago

    Perhaps the truth can only be found in his beard??  Oh what wisdom might it contain?

    http://www.bible-quran.com/wp-content/uploads/Hadhrat_Mirza_Ghulam_Ahmad.jpg


    (the eyes look a little sleepy though.. could be the heroin??)

    1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
      Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Whoz this IDIOT?

      1. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        just another Muslim a true beliver

  7. 0
    Home Girlposted 6 years ago

    Careful, Greek One, it's a thin line...


    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/4186836.jpg

  8. skipper112 profile image61
    skipper112posted 6 years ago

    Ahmad only takes parts from the Holy Bible to attempt to prove his concept of 'God'. Jesus said 'I am' God the father God the son God the holy Spirit, are ONE. I point out Allah, the Quran and Mohammed happened over 500 years after Jesus died on the Cross For All Mankind.
    Allah never rescued Jesus from the CROSS ( Islamic Story not true)
    All any follower of Islam ever does is to try to discredit the Holey Bible.
    Lets  start with the Quran, written by many people from the memory of many people after Mohammed ( who was supossed to reveal Messages from a Angel) who could not tell if what he said was corectly written down ( Mohammed could not read or write)and only after Mohammed died did the many feel safe to write down what they thought Mohammed said. Any reasonable person will see that the Quran is 100% PURE HEARSAY PERIOD.

    1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
      Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Skipper, you are expert in lieing. Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years and it was written down during the time of prophet.

      So what you mean that the parts i have taken from Bible are CORRUPT because it REFUTES the divinity of Jesus, right?

      If Jesus is 3 IN 1, it means that Jesus was his own father and his son. Jesus prayed and worshiped himself because he was his own father? Jesus beget himself bcoz he was his own father?

      If Quran is not credible bcoz it was revealed 500 years after Jesus. So the same argument can be used by the Jews to say that NT is revealed 1000's of years after Moses, thats why it is not credible and only hear-say?

      What you say skipper?

      1. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        How did the prophet know what was written when he could not read or write? Quran has no proof except Mohammed and how can Mohammed prove the Quran.?

        I did not say the Quran was not credible YOU DID but I will agree as you know it better than me thank you friend.


        As a Muslim you will NEVER understand the Holy Trinity.Becuaus you only read to find fault , not truth. I do not belive you will ever understand.

        I am not pointing out anything to a Jew, but a Muslim, find your own reason do not use a people Muslims HATE. I did not know I was talking to the only Muslim that dishonnores Mohammed as he HATED JEWS but you use Jews to try and make your own rules. Sorry you did not cut it.

        Look up 'hearsay.'

        What you are trying to say about the NT and Moses is just a sick joke learn the Bible before you quote about what you cannot understand. Read the Bible with a open heart and mind, look for truth, look and find the love of Jesus. No were in the Quran does Allah say he  love's you my Muslim. But in The Holy Bible Jusus loves you oppen your heart and mind to the love of Jesus, look for truth not fault, be honest in your reading of the Holy Bible.

        What say you Ahmad??

        1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
          Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          ---> Yes Prophet was illiterate and could not read or write. It was Angel Gabriel who ordered him to RECITE RECITE RECITE. Do you understand the word RECITE? He didn't say to read or write.

          When the angel Gabriel appeared to prophet and ordered him to "Iqra!" (read, recite, repeat, proclaim). Muhammad (PBUH), in his terror thought he was being asked to read, so he stammered: "I am unlettered." The angel Gabriel again ordered him to "Iqra!" Muhammad (PBUH) again replied: "I am unlettered." The angel Gabriel now took a firm hold of him and commanded him "Iqraa in the name of Allah who created!". Now Muhammad (PBUH) began to understand that he was not being asked to read, but to recite, to repeat. He began to repeat after him, and Gabriel revealed to him the first verses of the Qur'an:

          "Read (Iqra)! In the name of your Lord who created,
          Created man from a clot.
          Read (Iqra)! And your Lord is the Most Bounteous,
          Who teaches by the pen,
          Teaches man that which he knew not."
          (Qur'an 96:1-5)


          ---> MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Christians have difficulty in understanding this PAGAN concept of TRINITY.


          "Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost third.

          Each of these persons is God.

          Christ is his own father and his own son.

          The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both.

          The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after.

          Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son.

          The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two.

          So it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son and the Holy Ghost God, and these three Gods make one God.

          According to the celestial multiplication table,

          once one is three, and

          three time one is one, and

          according to heavenly subtraction

          if we take two from three, three are left.

          The addition is equally peculiar:

          if we add two to one we have but one.

          Each one equal to himself and to the other two.

          Nothing ever was,

          nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and

          absurd than the dogma of the Trinity."

          (Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 4, p. 266-67).


          ---> skipper you are EXPERT in LYING. All the chapters of the Quran starts with the love of Allah (except one chapter), i.e "IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, MOST BENEFICENT, MOST MERCIFUL". Go and read Quran.

          skipper I (Muslims) respect Jesus, Christ, the son of Mary, more than any Christian in this world. Please don't COMPELL me to write those verse of the Bible which will BURST your mind and then you will NEVER EVER say that Jesus of the Bible is LOVE. It is because of these VIOLENT, PORNOGRAPHIC, FOOLISH, UNSCIENTIFIC, verses that we Muslims believe Bible has been corrupted to a large extent. and it can never be the word of God revealed to Jesus Christ.

          what you say skipper should i EXPOSE you by writing those verses of the Bible in the forum?

      2. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        simple you are so full of your hatred for Christians you will try any FOUL DIRTY LIE to try and make yourself look good. Please expose, make yurself out to be a bigger fool than you already are. After all I do not think anybody belives you anyway, and you are used to quoting corrupt words from the Quran, so DO YOUR WORST.
        Still waiting for to prove ( EASY EASY  YOU SAID ) the Quran is the last word from God, hey wait a sec  its The Book of Morman and Joseph Smith that got the last words from God.

        oh dear me Mohammed trumped again.
        Lets see Bible 1st Mormans Last so Mohammed is left in the middle, oh well such is life

  9. skipper112 profile image61
    skipper112posted 6 years ago

    Ahmad how can you prove anything from the Holy Bible, as you do not read the Holy Bible with Love and understanding  as a Muslim you read the Bible with distrust and hate, so quote from what you CAN understand  because your Quotes are so wrong , dare I say stupid and illinformed ok, you follow the Quran so talk to Muslims as your words here are from la la land and remember the Quran at best is pure hearsay. Do not take my word for it look up hearsay !!

  10. manlypoetryman profile image70
    manlypoetrymanposted 6 years ago

    HHHMMMM....I read it differently in Hebrews....the first chapter. Pretty much-God calls Jesus a God. But then someone would find a way to refute that part. Watch...here goes:

    1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
      Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So please will you tell me where in the WHOLE Bible Jesus said that "I am God" or "Worship me"?

      1. manlypoetryman profile image70
        manlypoetrymanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        UUUH...my Bible Learning Theology days are much further behind me. And I'm lucky on most days to remember my sack lunch...let alone...a world of facts. But...I think I made a reference to something that bears scrutiny...more than your ramblings to try and start a great debate do. Jesus spoke from knowledge to those who would listen...knowing in advance...that there would be doubters. If you come from a world of believe in him...many things begin to come clear.

      2. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

        1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
          Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks skipper for calling us TERRORISTS and showing your TRUE colors. Thanks again.

          Friends skipper is challenging me to quote PORNOGRAPHIC verses from the bible BUT I will not quote any of the verses here because its not the right forum. BUT i would like to SUGGEST every Christian in this forum to read Ezekiel 23 (especially verse 17-20). For now this 1 chapter would be enough to make skipper HORNY. LOL

          1. skipper112 profile image61
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            yes I challenging you Ahmet to back up your mouth with PROOF back up your foul mouth.
            Give the proof you said you have to prove the Quran.
            Give the proof that Mohammed got the last word from God, he did not.
            Mormans got the last word from God.
            Your stupid sick insults are what I expect for a person that follows the unproven book of hate the Quran, you even said the Jews are protected by Islam you are such a low foul lier Ahmed.
            PROVE YOUR STATEMENTS
            And I do not call you terrorists ISLAM did that you poor misguided fool.

            FRIENDS all I have ever asked Ahmad to do is 2 things,
            1. Prove the Quran is the last word of God.
            2. Prove Mohammed was the last (so called) messenger from God and that Mohammed got the last word from God'
            Now 1st Ahmad must prove that the Morman Church is untrue, as the Mormans state ( with good reason) that they recieved the last word from God and not Mohammed.

            FRIENDS notice Ahmed never will answer this with proof because such proof Ahmad does not have, so he cannot do anything except insult , and HELL WILL FREEZE BEFORE AHMAD ANSWERES BOTH QUESTIONS

            up to you now Ahmad back up your big mouth with FACTS  ifyou can????

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hey there skipper. What proof would you accept exactly?

      3. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I do not remember a Christian saying that Ahmed, must be another of your STOCK MADE UP LIES about all one can expect from you.

        Mohammed COMMANDS you. SO SAD

        Jesus loves you.  MUCH BETTER.

        Prophets in Bible get visit's from God.

        Mohammed only gets a Angel ( so sad)
        Why if Mohammed is a true prophet, did Mohammed only get a (unproven ) Angel??

        Greek One
        I think Ahmed hates Christians so much he has to try and prove Christians wrong. That is so sad, because you cannot have a good debate when someone is so full of hatered.

        peace Greek One

        1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
          Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          NONE of the Prophets got VISITED from GOD. NONE NONE NONE.

          Gabreil (who you know as the HOLY GHOST) acted as an intermediary b/w God and his Prophets.

          This forum is a witness that I haven't used HATE remarks against any1. Despite you called me TERRORIST.

          Jesus clearly said in the BIBLE that to become my DISCIPLE, you must HATE your mother, father, daughter. Howz that the Jesus of the BIBLE is LOVE, skipper?

          1. pisean282311 profile image57
            pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            NONE of the Prophets got VISITED from GOD. NONE NONE NONE.????

            well one NONE was enough to make yourself heard man...easy...christ and moses heard directly from god is belief of christians and judaism...now muslims belief it was from gabriel...so three times None wont make christians change their belief and five times YES GOD DID wont belief yours...chill...

          2. skipper112 profile image61
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            realy and Moses never got a visit from God via the 'Burning Bush' you are so full of lies can you even lie straight in bed Ahmad?

            still waiting for you to answer my 2 questions , but HELL will freeze FIRST because you cannot prove your own mouth

    2. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      __________
      No where in Hebrew does it say Jesus or Yahshua is God

      1. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        thank you Deborah, I know you are Jewish and I am Christian, but I respect you and your beliefs, as you respect mine. But I do object to Ahmad saying that in the Quran it states ' Islam protectes the Jews'  I do not like his foul lies ether, thank you so much if you say it is not in Hebrew I accept that and as I thought it was just another lie from Islam.
        ty Deborah and may your God walk with you.

        1. 0
          Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          ____________
          You are right, they never protected the Jews. They have always been the enemy of the Jews.
          There are statements made that they would "Utterly Destroy the Jews"

      2. manlypoetryman profile image70
        manlypoetrymanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Your opinion...I do not know how much further it has to written to get someone's attention: Hebrews 1:8 (going on from a reference made in Hebrews 1:1): "Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever...and then in Hebrews 1:10: "Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the Earth. These are just some of the scriptures floating around in the first of Hebrews...

  11. Greek One profile image80
    Greek Oneposted 6 years ago

    Why do you concern yourself with what others believe.. or try to negate their beliefs?  Why not share and champion your faith and not focus on the ultimately fruitless pursuit of criticizing or proving false another?

    Why not start threads, or perhaps even better.. a HUB.. on the virtues of Islam?.. instead of taking the negative road of trying to prove 'wrong' a different faith?

    Are you a Muslim simply because you are not a Christian.. or are you a Muslim because you believe in the virtues of Islam?  If the former if the case, then the basis of your faith is thin.. if the later is the case, then why not share your faith and elaborate on it own virtues?

    1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
      Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I haven't criticized anyone's faith at all nor am i proving any1 false. All the Q i have asked are from the bible ands this is precisely what we Muslims believe about Jesus that he was one of the greatest prophets of God BUT he is not God or son of God.

      Understood?

      1. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        oh please.. what is the point of trying to show that Jesus WAS NOT God if it is not counterpoint those who believe that he WAS God?

        If no one thought Jesus was God, would you even raise the topic?

        1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
          Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          NO! it is not merely because of the reason that i am proving to them from the same book that he was not God from which they conclude that Jesus was God.

          Sorry friend, your point would have been valid if i were to prove from Quran that Jesus is not God BUT i am proving it from their own book, Bible.

          1. Greek One profile image80
            Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            but why do you seek to prove to them that their religion is wrong, instead of proving that your religion is right?

            1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
              Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Friend R U in your senses? When did I say that their religion is wrong? I am only refering to those PAGAN doctrines which were injected by CONSTANTINE, the Roman Emperor, in the Gospels of Jesus ONLY & ONLT for POLITICAL reasons. Do you know that?

              Watch the CHRISTIAN made Documentary "Who Wrote the Bible".

              Well i kill 2 birds with 1 stone,i.e proving to them from Bible that Jesus is neither God nor son of God & proving to them that Islam is indeed the true RELIGION of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. (Peace be upon all of them)

              1. pisean282311 profile image57
                pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                proving jesus christ as no god doesnot serve any purpose...because what ever one believes works...it is at brain level...what one believes doesnot matter at all...most holy books have been proven wrong in parts or as whole by science but still people stick to it and it works for them...so ultimately one must restraint from proving because in end what we think is truth is plainly our version of truth...

                1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                  Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  It serves. When you believe Jesus is God and SALVATION is through him, this is PURE blasphemy.

                  Jesus was a HUMAN, a GREAT PROPHET, a MESSENGER of God, CHRIST, BUT he is not God or son of God.

                  Ascribing PARTNERS with 1 true God and saying that he BEGETS is the BIGGEST sin that God will NEVER EVER forgive.

                  1. Druid Dude profile image61
                    Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Then exlpain how genetics, DNA, and certain Other modern day notions appear on the first page of the bible, such as cloning. All you got is some guy who disappeared off the top of a rock in Jerusalem, like some kinda oneway Captain Kirk, never to return. The whole thing will be settled when the fat lady sings. And that ain't yet.

                  2. skipper112 profile image61
                    skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Ahmed, you will never understand the Bible because your heart is full of hate to wards Christians.
                    You insult our God jesus'
                    You say Jesus was a prophet, another lie'
                    You fail to understand the Gospels, because your heart if full of rabid hatred to wards Christians.
                    You have no knowledge of the Bible because you try to find your own agenda and fail.
                    You Quote from the Quran, a Christian cares not about the Quran. ( pure hearsay)
                    To be totally honest all you do is show your HATRED to-wards Christians.
                    Now prove the Quran is the words of Mohammed, if you cannot just shut your foul mouth.

                  3. pisean282311 profile image57
                    pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    @ahmad usman

                    it serves. When you believe Jesus is God and SALVATION is through him, this is PURE blasphemy.

                    well i understand as per your definition it might be blasphemy but for 33% in the world it isn't...and why impose on others when what you are saying is based on faith?...faith can't counter faith...can it?

                2. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                  Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  YES Most HOLY DIVINE books which were CORRUPTED by people over time for POLITICAL or other gains may have been proven false from scientific point of view.

                  Quran is only the DIVINE book which can NEVER be corrupted and it can NEVER be proved FALSE from SCIENTIFIC point of view. This is because God says clearly in the Quran:

                  "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption). [Al-Quran 15:9]

                  http://www.scienceislam.com/scientists_quran.php

                  http://miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html

              2. Greek One profile image80
                Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                If your religion gives you hope and guidance and peace, then more power to you.

                You are obviously fully within your right to try to convince Christians, who receive spiritual guidance through our own faith, that the revisionism offered by Islam disproves the basic tenants of Christianity.  Such freedom of worship and expression is a basic legacy left to us by Judeo-Christian principles.  Sadly, the value of such liberties has not yet emerged in most Islamic counties

                I just want to point out to you that the attempt is futile, if for no other reason than the approach you take.  It would be as though I tried to tell you that your understanding of Islam is incomplete and flawed because you don't have the full version of the truth offered by Ghulam Ahmad.

                My advice is free.. part of the Christian ethic of giving, you might say smile  There is of course no compulsion to take it

            2. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Greek One'
              Thank you for your words of wisdom, but Ahmad is so full of hate towards Christians he cannot help himself.

              1. Uninvited Writer profile image84
                Uninvited Writerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Much as you are full of hate for all Muslims. I see no difference between the two of you.

                1. skipper112 profile image61
                  skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  uninvited,
                  Sorry I do not hate Islam, if fact I live next door to a Islamic family and we get on fine. I do not eveh hate Ahmad , to me he is just a badly missinformed silly verry young boy that is trying to stir up trouble by insulting Christians, indead by his own words he proves his hatred but as always when asked to answer simple Questions he runs scared back to were ever he came from. Sorry hate is too good to wast on Ahmah frankly he is nor worthy of my hate.

                  1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                    Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Nicely written.

    2. Onusonus profile image87
      Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well put.

  12. VOICE CIW profile image81
    VOICE CIWposted 6 years ago

    Ahmad Usman, 1. God is all knowing - Yes So is Jesus. 2. God is all powerful - Yes Jesus said all power is in his hand. 3, God does not have a God - Although Jesus is God, when Jesus came to redeem man, God the Father became His God. 4. God is an Invisible Spirit - Jesus is the embodiement of God, Jesus is what God looks like with a body. 5. No one is greater than God no one can direct Him - Yes Jesus acknowledged that. 6. God can't be tempted, but Jesus was - In order for Jesus to redeem man, He had to live as a man, so in His humaness Jesus had to be tempted, because we were.

    1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
      Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      1. When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32)

      and (Matt 24:36) But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.


      2. While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

      St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.


      3. God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

      1. christiansister profile image60
        christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        But, in these verses Jesus does represent himself as the Son. smile

        1. christiansister profile image60
          christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          And, does not the Son inherit what is the Father's? smile

          1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
            Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            O sister, why dont you understand that the word son is not used literally in the bible. I have proved all this to you earlier.

            Son means a righteous person. Israel, Epraem, Solomon all are the son of God. People can be called son of God. Read  Deuteronomy 14:1

            "And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: WORSHIP GOD, MY LORD and YOUR LORD.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (Qur'an 5:116-117)

            "l ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17)

            "Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).

            They say: God hath begotten a son! - Glory be to Him! He is self- sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! say ye about God what ye know not? Say: Those who invent a lie against God will never prosper. A little enjoyment in this world!- and then, to Us will be their return, then shall We make them taste the severest penalty for their blasphemies. (Qur'an 10:68-70)

            1. christiansister profile image60
              christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I so certainly appreciate the love you must feel in trying to help me to see the truth as opposed to the "kill the infidel" point of view especially since you open yourself up to being called ugly names and criticism. I do not feel any bad feelings towards you and I understand your personal need to help people see. But, I am not a christian because the Bible tells me so. I was not raised in a christian household quite the opposite.
              Some very drastic life events have revealed my Truth to me and I call out for Wisdom and I seek Truth. I have studied with many different christian denominations and I believe that Jesus live the blameless life to be worthy of Redeeming the earth from Satan's grasp. I think many people of all religions are confused about the real truth and they fight and war over doctrines and cannot see the awesome Life our Abba Father has waiting for us and I have no uneasy feeling in my soul about my afterlife. smile

              1. christiansister profile image60
                christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Jesus is the Lamb Who Is Worthy! He is my guide for how I should live my life and direct my spirit. In the Bible my DNA came alive in all my ancestors stories. Do not be confused Abraham is my Grandfather, Ishmeal is my Uncle and the Bible tells me that God was with him and turned him into a great nation. Sarah, is my Grandmother. It is sad to see the world in all its ugly hatred totally miss the mark on the one truth which is LOVE. smile

              2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                christiansister, I was not raised in a christian home either. I called out to God and he revealed truth to me. God promised those who seek him with all their hearts will find him. smile

                1. christiansister profile image60
                  christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Amen Woman of Courage! My Abba Father is not limited to man's ability to show me who He is. smile

                  1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                    Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Dear Sisters, why don't you read the Quran to know the Real Jesus:

                    the son of Mary,
                    the messenger of God,
                    the spirit of God,
                    the word of God,
                    the sign of God,
                    Messiah Christ.

                    The Quranic account of Jesus (PBUH) starts with the conception of Jesus (PBUH) mother, Mary, whose mother, the wife of Imran, vowed to dedicate her child to the service of God in the temple. When Mary became a woman, the Holy Spirit (the Archangel Gabriel) appeared to her as a man bringing her news of a son. We read the following dialogue in the Quran between Mary and the Angel:

                    "(And remember O Muhammad) When the angel said, "Mary, God gives you a good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, high honored shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God. He shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall be, "lord" said Mary "How shall I have a son, seeing no mortal has touched me? "Even so, he said "God creates what He will".
                    When he decrees a thing He but say to it, "Be", and it is. (Al-Imran 3:45-47)

                    "Then she brought him (Jesus) to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.
                    O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.
                    Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?
                    He (Jesus) spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,
                    And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,
                    And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest. Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! (Qur'an (Mary)19:27-33)

      2. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
        Rajab Nsubugaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you Ahmed! I like the way you have handled the whole thread with out disgracing! Keep them to their own "Holy bible."

        Skipper is another "hater" whose knowledge of the Quran is very lacking. If you will note, he will only talk about the revelation of the Quran to an uneducated man, then he will talk about the four women and how the Prophet was a warlord. Then it will be closed chapter. He can not quote and defend any surah from the Quran; talk about hearsay!

        1. pisean282311 profile image57
          pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          why should he quote and defend any surah and why should he at all have knowledge from quran...he has nothing to do with quran at first place...as muslim you may quote from quran but dont use bible to make christians wrong...in end it is faith...respect it if not belief it...how would you feel if someone said quran is wrong?

          1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
            Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think you should READ the TITLE of this POST carefully.

            I am not quoting from Quran But from BIBLE.

            Those who believe Jesus performed miracles not from God's acknowledgment BUT by his own power, how will they confront Jesus on the judgement day. Jesus will say:

            "Not everyone who says to me, ’Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ’Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, ’I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" (Matthew 7:21-23).

            1. aka-dj profile image79
              aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              So, you agree that Jesus WILL judge each one.
              That makes Him God, for only God judges righteously.

              1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Father, the God, the God of all prophets, the creator of everything in this universe will JUDGE, not Jesus.

                Jesus is a prophet and messenger of God.

                1. pisean282311 profile image57
                  pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  well what you define as god ..aka-dj defines him as jesus...why do you argue?...let god decide whether he is jesus or he is not jesus..it is not yours or mine domain right?...it is god's domain...

            2. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              so sad you cannot even answer a question.

          2. skipper112 profile image61
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            thank you pisean,
            still waiting for Ahmad to answer simple quesions.

          3. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
            Rajab Nsubugaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I do respect on the forum no matter their faiths. However we should also be able to rise our debate to levels that can accommodate divergent views. Ahmad is challeging christianity as according to the bible. It is not fair to counter his challeges by simply stating another wrong in the quran. A wrong in the Quran does not make a right in the bible.

            1. Greek One profile image80
              Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              nor would a wrong in the Bible make something in the Quran right...

              which is my original point.. what does in matter if the beliefs Christians have are 'wrong' in terms of validating the truths of Islam?

              Why not focus of celebrating or explaining the values and beliefs of one's religion, instead of the futile attempt to convince other believers that their faith is misguided?

              1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
                Rajab Nsubugaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Greek One why would you want to treat a sick child yet you are in good health? In Africa we largely believed in small gods i.e god of the water the sun the hunt. So much like the trinity! But when a white man came he taught us better. He taught us that God was one. What he never explained was that God needed a little help!

                1. Greek One profile image80
                  Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Who was this white man?

            2. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Rajab , if it is good for the quran it is good for the bible Ahmed is trying to disprove Jesus ok Lets get that straigt
              Ahmad made statements about the Quran ( like the Quran and Islam  protectingJews) Mohammed  being the last prophet  of God, if so why did Mohammed only get ( CLAIMED) angel ( he has been asked to give proof and fails) when true prophets like Moses got God direct ( i.e. The burning bush)
              Ahmad said Mohammed recieved the last word from God. ( he has been asked to prove that AGAIN he failed)

              Ahmed states many lies but when asked to prove his lies he cannot.
              The Mormans state they recieved the last word from God.

              Ahmad state's it is easy to prove both points but as always it is only Ahmads mouth and UNPROVEN words.

              If I am wrong asking for proof Rajab plese tell me why.

              1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                skipper you could have used the word DISPROVE Jesus if i was proving Jesus not God from Quran BUT since i am quoting my proofs from the Bible, therefore you should respect it and cant use the word DISPROVING JESUS.

                Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed to you, Muhammad), and those who are Jews and Christians and Sabaeans; whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does right, surely their reward is with their Lord, and there will come no fear upon them neither will they grieve) (Quran 2:62).

                Remember, when the Quran gives good witnesses to the Jews and Christians, it refers to the righteous and good followers of Moses and Jesus and those who followed them and put their ethics and moral and legal rulings into practice

                According to Stillman, The Qur'an praises Moses, and depicts the Israelites as the recipients of divine favour.

                The Qur'an dedicates many verses to the glorification of Hebrew prophets, says Leon Poliakov. He quotes verseas an example,

                "We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good: And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous: And Isma'il and Elisha, and Jonas, and Lot: and to all We gave favour above the nations. [Qur'an 6:85]

            3. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Excuse me Rajab but 99% of Muslins say the Quran is perfect and cannot be chalenged do you feel there might be some wrong parts in the Quran?

              1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Excuse me skipper, 100% Muslims believe that Quran is perfect and can't be challenged.

                Even the non-Muslims believes that. Do you that KANGROO?

                A famous non-Muslim Orientalist A J Arberry righly said:

                “Whenever I hear the Quran chanted, it is as though I am listening to Music, underneath the flowing melody there is sounding all the time, the insistent beat of a drum, it is like the beating of my heart.”

                Rev. R. Bosworth-Smith said:

                "A MIRACLE OF PURITY, OF STYLE,OF WISDOM AND OF TRUTH."

                Yet another Briton, Marmaduke Picktall in the foreword to his translation of Holy Qur'an describes it as:

                "THAT INIMITABLE SYMPHONY, THE VERY SOUND OF WHICH MOVE MEN TO TEARS AND ECSTACY."

              2. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                J. Schillidy, D.D., in "The Lord Jesus in the Koran" Surat 1913, p. 111 writes:

                "THE KORAN IS THE MOHAMMEDAN BIBLE, AND IS MORE REVERENCED THAN ANY OTHER SACRED BOOK, MORE THAN THE JEWISH OLD TESTAMENT OR THE CHRISTIAN NEW TESTAMENT." -

              3. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
                Rajab Nsubugaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Skipper, lets get first things first. Ahmed is challenging christianity basing on what is written in the Bible. The only logical way to attend to his challenge is to defend what the Bible says, and not, to "qualify" it with what "wrongs" that might be in the Quran. If I did accept that there are anomalies in the Quran, will it be "justification" that they should be in the Bible?

                1. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL! You would appear to be under the impression that religion isn't like politics, where the candidates cannot offer anything substantial or productive from their political platforms and must resort to slamming their opponents party line in order to get elected.
                  smile

        2. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Rajab, You call me a hater, how dare you. It is not I that started attacking the Quran,it was Ahmed who attacked the Bible. Ahmed has said it is easy t prove the Quran was the last word of God I asked him to prove it , nd Ahmed cannot prove that. The Mormans  Joseph Smith recieved the last word from God.
          Ahmad only attackes Christians to try and prove Mohammed recieved  the last word of God and Ahmad cannot prove  Mogammed recievd the last word from God.
          I will never belive the evil way the Quran pretends to love Jesus.
          Allah never saved Jesus from the cross.
          Ahmad I am still waiting for your ( easy easy way) to prove Mohammed had the last word from God'
          I am still waiting for you to prove the Quran.
          You have failled both queations.

          1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
            Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            KANGROO! Attacking something and Quoting from something are 2 different things.

            i told you that i will publish a separate hub for this to prove Quran the word of God. I can't put all the MIRACLES of Quran on one page. There are tooooo many.

            Anyway for you skipper, I will be going to publish 1 by 1 MIRACLES mentioned in the Quran.

            Tonight or Tomorrow, with God's willing, i will publish 1 Miracle. I hope you will read with Neutral and Rational mind.

            I believe, beside 100's of other MIRACLES mentioned in the Quran, this 1 will be enough for you to PROCLAIM loud in this FORUM:

            THERE IS NO god BUT ALLAH AND MUHMMAD IS HIS SLAVE AND MESSENGER + JESUS IS HIS SLAVE AND MESSENGER.

            InshAllah

            1. 0
              Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              ____________
              MUHMMAD is God? Get real. There is only one true God and it's not MUHMMAD.

              1. skipper112 profile image61
                skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I agree Deborah we both can agree Mohammed counts for nothing as Gods go.
                Deborah Ahmad says every Jew will get down on his knees and thank Allah for the protection Islam gives to the Jews. I belive that is pure b-s what do you think as a Jew.

              2. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hey Lady Deborah Sexton,

                Muhammad (PBUH) is the slave and messnger of God, nothing more than that.

                ---> James A. Michener (February 3, 1907 – October 16, 1997), an American author, in his book "Islam: The Misunderstood Religion", Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70 writes:

                "No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience."

                “Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God’s word sensing his own inadequacy. But the Angel commanded ‘Read’. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God".

                "In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumors of God،¦s personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, "An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being." At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: "If there are any among you who worshiped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshiped, He lives forever."

                1. pisean282311 profile image57
                  pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Deleted

                  1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                    Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Friend God is known through REASON, SIGNS and We have the DIVINE book Quran and it mentions all his SIGNS.

                    So you want proofs about Gabriel, just bcoz he doesn't visit SINFUL people like us BUT he visited EVERY Prophet to act as an intermidiary b/w God and his Prophets.

                    All the Prophets from Adam (PBUH) to Muhammad (PBUH) were just like us, they were Humans BUT of HIGH HIGH HIGH Callibre. They were all Chosen by God for the the guidance of Human Beings.

                    Every Prophet was sent to his Tribe EXCEPT Muhammad (PBUH) for he was the LAST Prophet and sent for the WHOLE of MANKIND.

                    Quran again and again says O' Mankind! O' Mankind:

                    "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (Qur'an 49:13)


                    "O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: for We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest.
                    Then those who believe in Allah and hold fast to Him soon will He admit them to Mercy and Grace from Him and guide them to Himself by a straight Way." (Qur'an 4:174-175)

                    "Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an they could not produce the like thereof even if they backed up each other with help and support.
                    And We have explained to man in this Qur'an every kind of similitude: yet the grater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude! (Qur'an 17:88-89 )

                    Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord and follow not as friends or protectors other than Him. Little it is ye remember of admonition.
                    How many towns have We destroyed (for their sins)? Our punishment took them on a sudden by night or while they slept for their afternoon rest.
                    When (thus) our punishment took them no cry did they utter but this "indeed we did wrong." (Qur'an 7:3-5)

                2. Ahmad Usman profile image81
                  Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  "O mankind! fear your Lord! For the convulsion of the Hour (of Judgment) will be a thing terrible!

                  The Day ye shall see it every mother giving suck shall forget her suckling-babe and every pregnant female shall drop her load (unformed): thou shalt see mankind as in a drunken riot yet not drunk: but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah.

                  And yet among men there are such as dispute about Allah without knowledge and follow every evil one obstinate in rebellion!

                  About the (Evil One) it is decreed that whoever turns to him for friendship him will he lead astray and he will guide him to the Penalty of the Fire.

                  O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection (consider) that We created you out of dust then out of sperm then out of a leech-like clot then out a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly unformed in order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term then do We bring you out as babes then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die and some are sent back to the feeblest old age so that they know nothing after having known (much).

                  And (further) thou seest the earth barren and lifeless but when We pour down rain on it it is stirred (to life) it swells and it puts forth every kind of
                  beautiful growth (in pairs).

                  This is so because Allah is the Reality: it is He Who gives life to the dead and it is He Who has power over all things.

                  And verily the Hour will come: there can be no doubt about it or about (the fact) that Allah will raise up all who are in the graves.

                  Yet there is among men such a one as disputes about Allah without knowledge without guidance and without a Book of Enlightenment.

                  (Qur'an 22:1-8)

                  1. 0
                    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    ________
                    Listen to how you talk.  To you the enemy is anyone who is not Muslim, and feel they should be destroyed.

                    Oh what love.
                    It's not what Yahshua taught, and it's not of God..

                  2. skipper112 profile image61
                    skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Ahmad,
                    I thought you only worshiped one God Allah, so I want to know who 'we' is.

                    'we' created you.......................
                    'we' pour down rain..................
                    'we' manifest (our power)......................
                    'we' will to rest in the wombs.......................
                    'we' bring out as babies..................
                    'we' cause....................
                    ( Ouran 22:1-8)

                    'we' have sent unto you a light.........................
                    Quran 4:174-175

                    'we' have explained....................
                    Quran 17:88-89

                    'we' destroyed..................
                    'our' punishment............................
                    'we' did wrong....................
                    Quran 7:3-5

                    Ahmad how many Gods do you worship,'we' means two or more,therefour by the words  quoted from the Quran clearly states you do worship more than one God.

                    Ahmed I realy do wait for your answer, I was so suprised to see that your own Quran states you worship more than one GOD......................................
                    Christians worship  one God,

                    The Jews worship  one God.

                    How many Gods do you worship.

            2. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              as usual you will not answer the qestion, I PUT IT SIMPLE SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND OK
              PROVE MOHAMMED HAD THE LAST WORD FROM GOD.????
              JOSEPH SMITH SAYS HE AND THE MORMAN CHURCH HAD THE LAST WORD FROM GOD
              SO MOHAMMED DID NOT GET THE LAST WORD FROM GOD
              SO YOU CANNOT PROVE ANYTHING CAN YOU??????
              PROVE THIS FIRST IF YOU CAN.

              WELL AHMAN I'M WAITING??????????

              1. skipper112 profile image61
                skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                and what makes you think I will belive what you say about the Quran, after all I am still waiting for you to prove the Quran is right.


                As usual you make big claims but cannot deliver, prove the Quran 1st,
                Prove Mohammed had the last word from God 2nd

                then you might be belived, but you froth at the mouth and deliver no proof.

                1. StevenPayne profile image61
                  StevenPayneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Can you prove that Joseph smith had the last word? What proof is there other than your faith Skipper?

                  1. skipper112 profile image61
                    skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I am not a Morman but the Mormans give as much proof an Mohammed, can you prove the Mormans wrong, if you can do it here ok

                    Excuse me Steven what proof has Mohammed have except 'faith'?

                    All I say there is equal proof ( faith based) for Mohammed or Joseph Smith. NEITHER had any whitnesses.

                    And I am still waiting for Ahmads ( EASY EASY ) proof of the Quran and Mohammed's visits fron a 'ANGEL'

                    As usual Ahmed is BIG on words but 'HAD NO PROOF'  So what say you now Ahmed????

  13. Sri T profile image80
    Sri Tposted 6 years ago

    The easy answer to all of your questions is: God exists in the deeper levels of beings. The Spirit is life. The surface is whatever nonsense the world has supplied.

    1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
      Rajab Nsubugaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Greek One I realize your point. However it does not apply to this thread. Ahmad is raising questions from the bible it is quite unfair to not attend at the particular concerns that he is raising by simply pointing out the anormalies in his faith. It is defeatism to simply turn away from the questions asked. Maybe Ahmad is at crossroads trying to finding the truth. Excuse my gramma for am using a mobile phone.

    2. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sri T,
      You make sence, unlike Ahmad and Rajab who attack the Christian faith with pure hate,  they only look for 'out of context' verses to try and suport their evil ways They can never prove any of their statements, if fact they run and hide when asked for proof.. Thank you for such wisdom Sri T. Have a great day and may your God go with you.


      Notice how long will it take Ahmad to answer now he is put on notice to put up or shut up.

  14. StevenPayne profile image61
    StevenPayneposted 6 years ago

    Amed, the term prophet is being thrown around alot here. Jesus was a prophet sure, absolutly but I believe he is the son of God as well. You showed scriptures saying the God said others to be his son and thats all well and good but he said that Jesus was he only begotten son.
    As far as the hitler and bush discussion, you show me what verses or passages from the bible they used to futher "Gods Kingdom" in their actions. Just so were clear, Hitler's actions was the genocide of the jews and other races I'm assuming but what were Bush's? He did a lot of things as President and you could be refering to anything during his 8 year presidency.
    I still am having a hard time understanding your flawless belief in a teaching that says it is ok to kill and to use your limited understanding of situations to determine when it is ok to kill and when it is not. Only God see's every side of a war and conversation and situation. Only he knows truth because he is truth. I ask you this, as a muslim do you have any ought with any other people or faith, gender or creed? If you do is enough to kill them? I am truly interested in this answer and you are more than welcome to email me if you do not want to answer publicly.
    I just want to state that I am a man who believes in the God of Adam, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob AND Jesus, John and Paul. I am not trying to upset you or anyone else here, I am trying to understand your faith and belief, as you being the only muslim I have actually spoken with I am filled with questions.

    1. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Steven ,
      Well said, you present well. I hope Ahmad will  reply to you in a reasonable way.I hope you do get a answer, as you ask a fair question. thank you
      Stephen may your God go with you.....................

      Skipper

    2. Ahmad Usman profile image81
      Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So you are refering to John 3:16 which say "Begotten son" , this word has been thrown out of the Bible in Later version as an interpolation and fabrication.

      Moreover, do you know the meaning of begotten?

      Begotten means "Born of the act of sexual intercourse"

      TWO cases:
      Either God had sex with Mary (God forbid.....) or that Mary was not a virgin.


      We also believe in the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

      "We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good: And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous: And Isma'il and Elisha, and Jonas, and Lot: and to all We gave favour above the nations. [Qur'an 6:85]

      "And remember our servants, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, men of parts and vision. Lo! We purified them with a pure thought, remembrance of the Home (of the Hereafter). Lo! in Our sight they are among the best of chosen men." (Quran 38:45-47)

      I didnt understand your other Q of ought with any other people or faith, gender or creed?

      1. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        _______________
        It was thrown out of which bible?

        1. Ahmad Usman profile image81
          Ahmad Usmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          New Internatioanl Version and many others Versions. Just Google it or look it up in the Wikipedia.

          1. skipper112 profile image61
            skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Ahmed,
            You can write anything in Wikipedia, it may not be true. Is that the best you can do.?


            Skipper,
            may your God walk with you

      2. Onusonus profile image87
        Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I believe that the bible explains that Mary was overshadowed by the holy spirit, and it caused mary to become pregnant with Jesus.
        If it were to be explained in mortal terms people from such an ancient era might have difficulty coming up with a new word or an easy way for being conceived by God without engaging in an actual physical act.
        The poeple who wrote the Bible understood what the word "Begotten" meant, yet had no other way to explain what happened between Mary and God, hence she still remained a "Virgin" in all instances provided in scripture and yet conceived the baby Jesus.

        1. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Onusonus,
          I agree and belive you truly understand. Thank you. Now we wait for some Muslin to come along and say we are wrong, oh such is life.

          Skipper

          1. Onusonus profile image87
            Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yes I'm affraid that is just the way it works. Otherwise they would all convert to Christianity.
            All you can do is your best to show a Christ like example towards people of other faiths. Be humble, compasionate, and intelligent, and you will be surprised at what kind of people will gravitate towards you.

            1. christiansister profile image60
              christiansisterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I have dropped out of the thread but, I kept reading the responses. That being said, I must give a very exuberant AMEN!!! Thank you for your comment. smile

              1. Onusonus profile image87
                Onusonusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It's pretty easy to become unhinged when communicating over the blogosphere. Just remember what the apostle James said. "in many things we may offend, but if a man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able to bridle the whole body."

        2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Onusonous, I agree with you also.

          1. Onusonus profile image87
            Onusonusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks.

  15. 60
    Composer2005posted 6 years ago

    biblical jesus is a fictional story book character

    1. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Composer,
      Just as predicted,along come your Insults. Must feel so proud to be the first to state such rubish. I knew some unbeliver had to answer with out any proof, the Bible was here before you and will be true long after you are dust. The Bible HAS never been proven wrong, and you will not prove it wrong, if insulting makes you feel good do it, you will have to try and save your soul when  you die, Good luck.

      Skipper
      may your God walk with you.

      1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
        Rajab Nsubugaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Skipper, lets try to get some millage and forget about the wikipedia. Are the books and verses that Ahmad quotes, a lie or they really do exist in the writing of the Bible?

        1. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Rajab,

          Everything 'exists' but taking anything out of context even the Quran is not the way to do things. And Amhed knows this that is why he tries 'tricks' but Ahmad gets caught out every time, simple tell the truth in 'context' simple. Every thing must be in context, you know that. I can make any book say whatever I like by picking words out of context.

          But I must point out when Amhad gets into a hard answer he goes straight to the Quran. As a Christian the Quran can not and will not ever be belived as I do not belive the Quran is the word of God. It might be the word of the people that wrote it , but the word of Mohammrd how, he could not even read the Quran to prove it contained his words.

          And Ahmad said he will only use the Bible, even Ahmad cannot keep his word. Now I wait for Ahmads proof from Bible. And I must ask proof of what.?

          Also Joseph Smith (Morman)  had 11 witnesess who saw the Angel and the  'Golden Tablets'  Mohammed had none, so in any court of Law Joseph Smilh has proved he ( Mormans ) had the last word from God and not Mohammed.



          Skipper.
          may your God walk with you

      2. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Nor, has it ever been proven right. smile

  16. StevenPayne profile image61
    StevenPayneposted 6 years ago

    The question about having ought with someone has to do with the passage from the Qu'ran that states you can go to war with someone or slay an unbeliever. Does this mean me since I don't believe in the Qu'ran or the version of God you call Allah? If I were in front of you, would you want to cut off my head or stone me? I am not ignorent of the way your faith works. There are Muslims on the news in America because they have cut the head off their wife for being disobediant or some such non sense.
    There is a movie based on the story of a woman who married a muslim from Iran and went back to his country so he could visit his family and found herself kidnapped by this Islamic wackjob. It's called Not Without My Daughter. This is not an isolated happening. How can you defend a religion that treats it's woman like cattle? Let's put God on the back burner for a moment as well as the bible and the Qu'ran say about Christ because you and I will never see eye to eye.
    The morality of being able to beat your wife for disobaying or even kill her. The fact that a woman can't go anywhere without a man in these Islamic ruled countrys without a man is absurd or the fact they cannot show their hair or in even some extreme cases their skin except their eyes! But the man can do whatever he pleases as long as he can support it by a book? Marry as many wives as you wish, when you die you are presented with vigrins? To be honest your faith sounds more like a rock hard fantasy than a practice of peace and tolerance.

    1. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Beelzeddad,

      Sorry but to me Jesus Christ is proven by my 'faith' you can disagree, that is your right. I do belive the Holy Bible I belive it is right, if you do not belive, fine you are not forceing some other faith down my neck.  For that Beelzaddad you have my respect.

      Steven Payne,
      I must agree with you 100% as you and I have disagreed with the Quran any Muslim can cut  our head off, and be justified by the Quran. Islam is purely a 'Religion' for men, made up by men, controlled by men, who truely belive that when they did in battle 'defending' Islam they get '72 Virgins. The only thing I have noted no were is it stated 'what the 72 Virgins are.'But you are 100% right and can never be proved wrong by any Muslim, that is the sad part of Islam.You see werever a 'Peacefull verse is replaced by a more violent verse' then a Muslim is abrogated th follow the latter verse.Muslims are told to 'lie and cheat' non belivers to inprove Islam. The Quram states 'woman and men' are to dress modest, but men who are so afraid that other men that see their wife may not be able to control their 'urges' so they make their wives cover everything, to me that is a discusting way to behave. Thank God I am Christian, but I have noticed the looks of Islamic men as they look at western woman, that makes me sick to my stomach.

      Skipper,
      may your God walk with you

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That's fine, but if you deny other believers the right to believe as they do, then you contradict yourself at every turn, which is exactly what you've been doing all along.



        Your belief in the bible does not align with reality, and I would never force reality upon you. smile

        1. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Beelzeddad,
          I think you may have noticed that Ahamed is trying to discredit Christanity and prove Islam is the only faith and Allah is the only God.
          That is your view I belive the Bible is REALITY, so you belive as you do ok.

          I have respect for you please do not destroy it, I allow your views please will you allow me mine.  If Islam leaves me alone and stops atacking Jesus and the Bible I will leave them alone.

          Skipper
          may your God walk with you

          1. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Kinda like you're trying to discredit Islam and prove Christianity is the only faith and Jesus is the only god?

            But, please do continue on looking at the mirror and not seeing your own reflection. LOL!

            1. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Beezedad,
              You might be right mate, but is sure is fun. But all I see is my own reflection. LOL
              If no reflection how do I shave . LOL



              Skipper
              may your God walk with you

              1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                LOL

  17. Momma Mia profile image78
    Momma Miaposted 6 years ago

    ahhhh  the  reflection ....  so deep in that rippled water...that leaves only hints of the true image.  When man can learn to love like Jesus, take the time to feel God and to see others as a friend instead of the enemy .... then the peace can begin.....then our heavenly father can be made proud of his children. 
      As I sit here today and read these blogs, I am reminded once again that too many argue over God.  I often wonder and believe that God can only be hurt by this... as his children are fighting.....much less over his name. When Gods children will let God in their heart....they feel no need to argue and fight.
      I have had many out of body experiences....  I have seen that luminous light......heard Gods voice and seen Jesus Christ. One was not a near death experience.......3 were very much so.... No drugs or alcohol was involved and I did not require a hospital stay. My gallbladder ruptured and i was in much pain...I called to God for his mercy and was shown more than I ever expected.  I have spent the last 4 years doing online work for God.....as God told me to do.   
         One does not have to know all the verses or chapters of the bible.....Although I read our bible several times ...to only lose  much of the written word that I memorized , to a brain stem head injury.   What I did after that was open the bible to a random page.....it always spoke directly to me and what was going on in my life at that time.   Proving to me that all of it at one time was not needed and that God will guide my hands ...if I only allow him.
       Peace on earth and great will toward men......all of them. 
                Happy Holidays

                     Mia

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry to hear about that, but it would appear that the former is most likely a result of the latter. smile

  18. Momma Mia profile image78
    Momma Miaposted 6 years ago

    Beelzedad
       not sure exactly what you are referring to but I like your spunk that I have observed in this forum.  I probably will not post too much....as everyone seems to bicker...an about God of all topics ! I have had friends of all faiths, most races and age and gender. Some also were atheist or agnostics.  To share of ourselves, experience, wisdom and knowledge only help others if given with non-judgement and compassion for others.....without arrogance or harsh insults. However I love to share about my personal relationship with God......and I believe That when everyone has that.......the bickering will stop and the words here will be  replaced with kinder, softer, more tolerant text.
            until,
                Mia

    1. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Moma Mia,
      I truly understand you , as a survior also of a Massive brain stem injury, that cost me 4 years of my live. I must be honest I also can oppen the Bible at any page and it comes alive, I try to be honerable in my posts and not insult, but sometimes it is so hard.

      As I said I had massive Head ( brain stem) imjury along with massive leg injuries. I lay in intensive care packed in ice, whth 3 fans blowing over my body in a deep coma. I had three nuns praying for me around the clock my temp. was hovering around 40C, and had recieved the last rites. On the seventh day my temp. dropped and my body started to be able to keep a tempeture.

      My recovery was slow, but 4 years later I returned to work, my right leg is now 2 1/4 ins shorter with 30% less muscle mass below the knee.

      Yes I belive ijn the power of prayer, I belive My Lord Jesus is the only liveing true God, also I am Catholic.
       
      There has to be peace between all faiths, because right now we are slowly heading to-wards a world wide Religious WAR and there will be the Greatest BLOODBATH in History. This I hope and pray NEVER Happens.

      Skipper,
      May your God walk with you

      1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
        Rajab Nsubugaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry about the injury, Skipper! I now know where you are coming from. You surely need a rest now. My sincere apologies.

        1. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Rsjab,

          Thank you,  but that was in 1975, everything fine now. Unless I told you the only thing you might notice is a slight limp if I am very tired. I was shot 2 times while I was a Soldier.That is a risk a soldier takes. I returned into the work force in 1980.I retired after working the 2000 Olympics in Australia as a Security Officer.

          Rsjab that is why Islam has to be able to live in peace now, alongside all other Religions. All other Religions also have to live in peace with Islam. Because my friend if we cannot live to-gether in peace,we will fight and both will go to WAR, that must never happen. So I belive peacefull Muslims must state in as loud as VOICE as possiable. That Islam will NEVER APROVE  any violence under the name of  Islam. No more ATTACKS NO MORE KILLING in the name of Islam, do you agree??

          This is the place to reslove any  differences by talking NOT KILLING, I put it you straight Islam must change.Like the Christian's and Jew's are at peace with each other Islam has to foget the old ways, and be at PEACE.

          Thank you for your kind words.

          Skipper,
          may your God go with you

          P.S. My pic is less than 12 months old I am 67 years old.

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        skipper, Sorry about your injuries. Yes there is power in prayer.

        1. skipper112 profile image61
          skipper112posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Woman of courage,

          Yes there is great power in prayer, the Doctors had done their best best, it was up to my faith, a couple of nuns and my self, along with the greatesr healer Jesus Christ.

          I recovered, even 1 doctor said it was a recovery he could not explain, and it sure was more than luck he belived God lent a helping hand.

          So I'm ok, my body works, it's 30 years down the track, and I still have My faith and belief in my Lord Jesus Christ. So everything is good.

          Skipper,
          may your God walk with you

          1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
            Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Great testimony! The power of God was working through the doctor's hands, and it was not luck at all. Many will say it was just luck to dismiss God. I say it was a miracle. Keep the faith Skipper. smile

            1. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Woman of Courage,,

              I will never disagree with you, I belive in the power of Prayer, The power of my Lord Jesus Christ, to me Jesus is the only true God, always was and always will be.

              Even one doctor agreed with you, I know the power of Jesus Christ to me the ONLY TRUE GOD.... PERIOD.

              Have a Great Christmas, Woman of Courage, God bless you and yours


              Skipper
              may your God walk with you.

              1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Wonderful! Have a Great Christmas Skipper big_smile

  19. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    Glory to God,for the things He has done( and still to come)

    There are many more stories like Skippers that will probably never appear on Hubpages or anywhere else on the net,just as there are many answers to Scientific questions still unanswered.

    I sure dont profess to know ALL the answers,but I am so happy to have met the Living God smile and before you ask how do I know,or prove it ,let me say its a spiritual truth ,not one that can be fully understood on a written forum, and certainly never will be understood by a closed mind.

    Good morning all ,wow a brand new day ( who ever said miracles dont still happen!) smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Amazing that you feel the need to attack others in such a passive-aggressive way. Odd that you do not see that this is why people end up despising people who claim to be Christian.

      Denying proven scientific facts because they prove your religion to be nonsense and then claiming to have an open mind is rather funny though. Certainly reminds me why I reject your beliefs. Thanks. big_smile

    2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
      Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Eaglekiwi, You are absolutely right, and I fully agree with your response smile

    3. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Kia Ora,
      Eaglekiwi,

      Merry Christmas to you and yours.

      Skipper,
      may your God walk with you

  20. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    You felt attacked?

    Oh dear ( to coin your fav response)

    Science is great ,but not 'all knowing' and thats a fact too.

    I dont share my thoughts to challenge yours Mark,its a great shame that you feel and act like I do.

    My goodness if I felt attacked everytime someone disagreed with me Id be continually wounded.

    Passive aggressive lol @ stereotypes ,titles, names, etc.

    God said You, and I are wonderfully made smile

    Of course you are free to disagree  that He said that ,but I am free to express that he did.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes - I consider saying "never will be understood by a closed mind." to be a passive-aggressive attack on anyone who does not subscribe to your fairy tale.  It is not about agreeing or disagreeing - it is your implied superiority and need to belittle others. I did not take it personally - I know why you need to attack people in this way and I certainly do not value your opinion enough to be upset. lol I was hoping you might understand why this is the attitude that causes people to dislike self-professed Christians.  Sorry you can not understand that. Dear me. sad

      1. aka-dj profile image79
        aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That's no way to talk to a lady. sad

        You feel threatened by a "woman's opinion"?
        Now that's worth a lol lol lol

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Are you having trouble reading what I wrote dj? She was making a passive aggressive attack and that is what I commented on. I actually find it funny - not threatening, but was pointing out why people tend to become offended by people who do such things.

          I know that as a Christian you automatically ignore a "woman's opinion " like the bible tells you to - but I am not like that. I have morals.

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Do you feel threatened again? hmm I can see your true motives. I can only imagine how miserable you must feel inside. By the way, the bible doesn't state that a woman opinion should be ignored. Love and blessings to you smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry - no - I do not feel threatened. I was attacked as being incapable of understanding because I am close minded. Are you having trouble reading also?

          I feel wonderful - thank you for asking. Inside and out. I recently quit smoking and feel great.

          The bible is pretty clear that women are not to lecture men. Yet you persist in going against the Word of God. Why is that?

          Yes - I wish same sort of love and blessings back to you.

          1. Onusonus profile image87
            Onusonusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Why do you feel so threatened every time somone expresses their religious beliefs? Don't you think its time we tried to share our feelings in a less condescending way? Prehaps then you will be more sucessful in your attempts to convert others to Atheism.

            After all I'm sure that there are some kind of benifites to believing in nothing, other than the mastery of belittlement and condescention. None the less it's your God given right to do and act as you please.

            1. skipper112 profile image61
              skipper112posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Good on you , that says it all.




              Skipper
              may your God walk with you

              1. Onusonus profile image87
                Onusonusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Same to you, I hope one day we can all walk upright by his side.

          2. Eaglekiwi profile image76
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Mark:

            This is part of my earlier post.


            I sure dont profess to know ALL the answers,but I am so happy to have met the Living God  and before you ask how do I know,or prove it ,let me say its a spiritual truth ,not one that can be fully understood on a written forum, and certainly never will be understood by a closed mind

            If you thought I was meaning you , ( I wasnt) then um ,the cliche "If the hat fits,springs to mind)  lol

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Oh? In that case - I am sorry - I thought you were saying that you have a spiritual truth that will never be understood by a closed mind. My bad - assuming you meant people who do not believe in god are close minded and will never understand the truth that you do understand.

              And then you make it clear that you did mean that with the "if the hat fits."

              Passive-aggressive attacks are still attacks. sad

    2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
      Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Eaglekiwi, Mark has falsely accuse me on a previous thread of being passive- agressive also. smile I was only speaking the truth about my personal experience of my faith.

      1. skipper112 profile image61
        skipper112posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Woman of Courage,

        If you are 'passive agressive' you would have to be so gentle at 'passive agressive' .

        Gee I almost missed it, but then like you my skin is just a bit thicker, and I fail to see how you were lectureing a 'man'.

        Guess I will have to be more carefull in all my posts, so I do not upset some 'thin skined' people.

        Do they never complain because I am male and can be 'verry passive agressive'?

        Skipper
        may your God walk with you

        P.S. Mark, did not see your Name,think you might just be a bit thin skinned, I consider your use of words like 'fairy tale' to be a poor atempt to discredit the Bible , and NO one has yet proved the Bible wrong, so the Bible is NOT a fairy tale. If you are qoing to put up another view PLEASE just be honest OK.

        Skipper,
        may  your God walk with you

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          skipper, You are careful enough in your posts. No need for any of us to be on pins and needles. No matter how gentle you are in these forums, someone will always be offended simply because we speak of God and his holy word.

      2. Eaglekiwi profile image76
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Is ok W.O.C  I know deep down Mark  weally wuvs me!

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Agreed smile

  21. Woman Of Courage profile image60
    Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago

    Merry Christmas to all who celebrates. big_smile

    1. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ty Merry Christmas to you and yours xx

    2. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have no problem with people saying, Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or Seasons Greeting or... whatever. It really doesn't matter. It's just a time of the year when people will say these things to other people but never say anything similar to those same people any other time of the year. Empty platitudes. smile

  22. skipper112 profile image61
    skipper112posted 5 years ago

    Merry Christmas mate

 
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