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Would proof in the existence of God be enough for you to worship Him?

  1. Jason2917 profile image59
    Jason2917posted 6 years ago

    I originally posted this as a question... but started thinking It would probably make a better discussion.

    Would proof in the existence of God be enough for you to worship Him?

    This is not a trick question, and I'm not looking for a debate e.g.: science vs religion, etc.

    Consider it this way, if all of the sudden all of the evidence of His existence was convincing enough for you to change your mind and you began to believe that He is real, would just the knowledge of His existence be enough for you to worship Him?

    If you respond, include a reason why or why not? If not, what do you think would cause you to worship Him? What would make Him worthy?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Any evidence would do for me. Anything at all. Moving mountains, sending down an angel (when I am sober and awake) whatever.

      Plus it would have to indicate a desire that I worship it. Which then begs the question - would I want to worship a god that needed me to worship it?

      Probably not. If I worship a god it is going to have to be an omnipotent god that does not need or want me to worship it. Or can force me to do so - that would work as well.

      Got some? lol

      1. Jason2917 profile image59
        Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Mark,

        Thanks for your response. I've been a closet follower of you for a while now. I like your writing style and wit.

        One of the things that I love about God is that fact that He doesn't need us to worship Him at all, but rather wants us to... and does not force is.

        I am curious (not in a sarcastic way but genuinely) why do you not like the fact that He wants to be worshiped? I have a couple kids and I look at it in the same way as me wanting to be loved by my children.

        Your thoughts?

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Are love and worship the same thing? No - they are not. Still - I look at it in the same way. Most parents, I find, had children for selfish reasons; want them to be doting, loving offspring who do XYZ and behave in this way or that - and this Invisible Super Parent of yours is as frail and pathetic as any human. Therefore it does not exist.

          This is one of the reasons I decided your God does not exist. "Proof," actually. wink

          If I was to worship a God - it would need to be omnipotent and have earned my worship in some way. Yours? Whiny, needy and the passive/aggressive threat of damnation from "love," for not obeying lurking in the background? What a joke. lol Sad really - that you choose to worship this monster that creates so many conflicts.

          Plus the fan club - every time I speak with one I am convinced this cannot be possible - and if - on the minuscule chance it is - I prefer obliteration than eternity with the thing you describe. I will give you an example of the approach many of them take to defend their beliefs. You for example state:


          I wonder of you can see how condescending this is. I sound like you did 10 years ago before you "came to Christ"? When you were speaking to God when you were 7 or 8 years old?

          You think you are qualified to represent this Invisible Super Being? Already convinced me it does not exist by telling me it wants to be worshipped. Seeing as you are qualified to represent it. wink

          And write hubs telling us what we "should" do?

          The focus of the discussion should be on the fact that this god-thing of yours does not exist. Therefore the misrepresentations the others do when defending their irrational belief is exactly the same as you are doing.

          You say yours wants to be worshipped? What a pathetic God. It does not exist. Can not exist in fact. Thanks for validating that for me.

          Glad you enjoy my meanderings. smile

          1. Jason2917 profile image59
            Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Mark, my sincere apologies for coming off as condescending. I tried to clarify the statement, but I'm not a very good communicator.



            No, I do not feel qualified.



            Sorry again. My intention was not to command anybody.

            Thank you again for your feedback and patience with my poor writing.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Please do not apologize. Your writing is perfectly fine and I am in no way offended, I was simply telling you what I feel. I generally feel that some one is being condescending when they tell me they feel exactly the same way I do.

              I have to ask though - as you "see a lot of Christians getting into angry arguments over God's existence that tend, not to lead to conversion, but to misrepresentation of the One they're trying to prove exists."

              And you have written a hub to clear up some misconceptions about god, surely that means you are qualified to represent this god - does it not?

              So - why say you are not?

              1. Jason2917 profile image59
                Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you, Mark, and good question...

                I really want to represent Him and do it well, and I try to... but I don't consider myself as doing it effectively. That's why I say I'm not qualified. But you're right; I do take it upon myself to be representing Him on one hand and yet say that I'm not qualified. Darn me and my self-contradiction!!

                My concern is that what I'm seeing from the responses on this topic is that, in our quest to represent God to people, we Christians actually defame Him by our attitude toward the people we claim that He loves. (That's why I apologized for coming off as condescending.)

                1. Shadesbreath profile image90
                  Shadesbreathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  The problem you have, and will continue to have, is one of language.

                  If we assume for a moment that there is a God, and that it is actually the God described in the Bible and not some other variant, how can you possibly hope to talk someone into believing?

                  The Bible was written a long time ago, by guys smart enough, popular enough, connected enough to write something (pre-printing press mind you) that became hugely popular.  Now I won't even bring up all the political and historical issues with it that render it implausible.  Let's assume everything in it is totally accurate.

                  Those smart, connected writers, who actually EXPERIENCED god, or at least hung out with his son or with the guy he talked to, or at least actually knew a friend of a friend of the guy who heard that God told so-and-so to kill this kid or those people or raise that city etc.,... those writers were not able to communicate the existence of God in a way to make it universally clear, evident, certain and desirable to believe in God.

                  And here comes you and folks like you.  Thousands of years distant from the event.  Trying to make words that WILL work.

                  Of course that's going to fail.

                  I read your hub that you linked. While I'm sure it's very inspiring to your fellow Christians, in terms of point-making, it's called "begging the question."  You are in essence saying, "The God of the Bible is great because the Bible says God is great."

                  That's not a compelling argument. 

                  You want people to see as you do?  To find God?  Go out and be a good person.  Words mean nothing.  In fact, in this world, in THIS forum on THIS website, where words are used to take money from people, the written word, language itself, has less than no meaning.  It is corrupt and empty.

                  How can you help people find God through corruption?

                  Go out and do good deeds.  Walk around and help people like Jesus did.  DO stuff.  Stop talking.  Stop writing.  Go outside and do God's work.

                  All these Christians lament the death of Christianity.  Some Cardinal announced the other day that he fears "Christianity is being casually brushed aside."

                  Well it is.  It is because Christians are all talking and writing and sitting on their comfortable butts waiting for their turn to meet Jesus or whatever.  Islam is going to win just by the fact they have an Action Plan.  Ya'll sit around and keep talking, while the radical clerics are out there in the places people are suffering offering solutions (sometimes to problems they create).  You sit there and tell people that we should "think how pretty God's throne is," as we sit in our well apportioned homes drinking beers and eating cheeseburgers, while radical imams bring bread and dates to hungry families and tell angry, hormonally ridden teenage boys in the house that they can make fat, evil American's pay by blowing up a coffee house.

                  Why don't you take your peaceful loving God where he is needed?  Live by example. Show them how your God is a better choice.  Because all the rest of it is just words.  Non-believers aren't stupid.  We watch. And the more we see of Christianity, the more Christians write and talk, the emptier the religion gets.

    2. pennyofheaven profile image82
      pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      How do you mean all of a sudden? Evidence has existed since the conception of "all that exists" and still more proof is needed?

      For those who do not acknowledge the many forms of evidence here and now, perhaps they are expecting a physical super human being with extraordinary powers that create a whole universe in front of their eyes as proof. I don't know?

      So...I am wondering how those who need further proof (because what is existing isn't sufficient enough proof)...how they think everything we know in the manifest today was created or if not created came into existence? Did it just appear?

      Oh and in answer to your question...although it might depend on your definition of worship....if its not happening now...I don't think so.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Odd. You seem to be saying that what exists did indeed just appear. But - it must have been a god that made it happen. Just because you cannot grasp the fact that existence did "just appear" (or has always been here - my personal preference) - why assume a god? And then incorrectly use the term "evidence," when what you really mean is "assumption from ignorance," ("ignorance" is NOT an insult if you Christians want to go complaining about wot the atheist sed)  or "the god of the gaps," argument.

        "I don't know how it happened, therefor there must have been a god diddit." lol

        1. pennyofheaven profile image82
          pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          If thats how it appears, that is not how it was intended. Perhaps this might help or not?

          Evidence that God exists is here in now yes but I don't think existence as we know it just suddenly appeared. For me it is and will continue to be a process given the different conditions that arise that is forever changing. This process that 'was'  before you and me existed on this earth for sure. Still does.

          If I choose to call this process God that is my personal preference. We each have our own way.  Your own personal preference differs from mine illustrates this well.

          You lost me on.........

          ****************************************
          And then incorrectly use the term "evidence," when what you really mean is "assumption from ignorance," ("ignorance" is NOT an insult if you Christians want to go complaining about wot the atheist sed)  or "the god of the gaps," argument.
          ****************************************

          How do you mean.... I really mean "assumption from ignorance"? You got all that from my (according to your personal preferences) incorrectly used term of evidence?

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Evidence:
            "that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof."

            You have no "evidence."

            What you have is an assumption of something based on an observation that bears no relation to the assumption.

            "Existence exists. I don't know how that came to be, therefore there is a God."

            But then you have redefined "God" to mean,"Not the English name given to a singular being in theistic and deistic religions," and your "God" actually means "nothing." Capitalizing it in order to confuse me into thinking you meant a proper noun was genius.

            So - we jelly fiscal computer, can we?

            I have, of course, made up a new meaning of the terms "jelly," "fiscal," and "computer," in order to make it appear as though I know something you do not - as is my personal preference - and it is really your problem if you do not grasp what I said. wink

            1. pennyofheaven profile image82
              pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Oh think I'm getting it....so my evidence (as I see it) is not proof because you believe it is not evidence and for you it is more an assumption rather than evidence.

              And are you saying, that because my definition of God is not in alignment with the Dictionary's or English understanding/mainstream understanding of God (don't actually know what you are pointing at... just guessing) it is nothing to you (because you get confused or believe I was trying to confuse you) when it doesn't fall within the criteria you or the Dictionary/English/mainstream understanding have determined/constructed/described (can't decide which word to use).

              If so....

              If my definition of God doesn't fit within the mainstream or whomevers definition of God I can live with that. No one else has to.

              Your new made up words sound good enough to eat!

              1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No - your evidence is not evidence because it is not evidence, not because I refuse to accept it as such. For us to be able to communicate clearly - we need to agree on what words mean. "Evidence" means proof. We must agree on what proof is for it to be proof.

                You have assumed a God based on the fact that you perceive existence.




                No - I am making the point that because you have invented a new meaning for the word - we cannot communicate clearly any longer. See above.


                But - what did they mean? If you do not know - then we are not communicating properly.

                I am a big fan of clear communication. You are not communicating clearly with me. This inevitably causes problems, misunderstandings and conflict.

                Because now when you say you have "evidence," that something is true - I cannot believe you because you have redefined the term evidence to mean something it is not.

                1. pennyofheaven profile image82
                  pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  What is clear to me is not clear to you and vice versa.... that seems obvious. So is there any point in discussing further any of the points I or you made or not? I am quite happy to let it be or continue to clarify if I can any points made? Up to you?

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Changing the definition of words to suit yourself and assuming I should know what they mean causes confusion, miscommunication and conflict.

                    You have not made any points. Other than you want to use new meanings rather than the accepted ones for words in common usage - which is going to flaccid jelly fiscal computer.

                    If you want to continue to accuse me of simply not accepting the obvious evidence you see - go right ahead. Is that the point you are trying to make? That there is actually real evidence and I just refuse to see it?

    3. 0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No.  I'd have a lot of questions I'd want answered.  I believe in mutual respect.  Some superbeing demanding I worship it is not different to a tyrant boss demanding respect without showing it.

      1. Jason2917 profile image59
        Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you Baileybear,

        On one hand I tend to agree with your logic. I've had some bosses like that--not a pleasant work environment. I've also had some bosses that did show that mutual respect and I responded with loyalty.

        I am curious, in what way do you feel that God does not respect you?

        1. 0
          sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I know this question wasn't to me but I do want to answer.  That god, the one commonly understood as the "all seeing and knowing", does not respect your privacy.

          Of course, there is no such thing but in the eyes of billions, they do think what you do in your life is their business and that is an attribute of "their" god and what their god wants.

          It's not about what you want, you think, you feel, you believe etc. it all about what they want and behind them, there is NO GOD.

          1. Jason2917 profile image59
            Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi Sandra, and thank you for your input.

            Is it God who is "spying" that bothers you or mosey Christians who claim to be doing God's will?

            You are right in that Christians have no business meddling with your business. I hope to portray an attitude of concern and love for my non-Christian friends, not judgment and condemnation.

            Thanks again.

        2. 0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          by letting good people suffer and bad people getting away with murder; by requiring worship; killing people for no reason; turning a deaf ear to a (former) believer's prayers...

    4. 0
      Jake Gene Barnesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think that any being who demands me to fall on bended knee to worship and praise it is on par with Kim Il Sung (or the better known, Kim Jong Il).

      Now, this is simply my opinion, but I don't want it to be true. I think it would be awful if it were. An all-powerful, all-seeing, all-knowing presence monitoring everything I do and say, judging even my thoughts... it sounds positively dreadful to me.

      That being said, if absolutely irrefutable evidence were to be presented I would have no choice but to accept it, but would I worship this God figure? That depends on weather or not it is also proven that not doing so would result in my eternal pain and misery, in which case, it would be in my best interest to get on my knees and begin my life of indentured servitude.

      1. Jason2917 profile image59
        Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Jake, thank you for your response.

        I think Kim Jong Il would make a terrible God too!

        Sometimes I feel very frustrated by the misrepresentation of God's character by people who preach (or scold) in His name but not true to His nature.

        Then again, I am not a great communicator either. Luckily He isn't relying on me to make Himself known.

        Thanks again for your response.

    5. CMHypno profile image89
      CMHypnoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I don't disbelieve in a god/deity but even if I was given concrete proof, I would like to think that a being of that magnitude would not need worship but would rather have a relationship of mutual respect.

      Only certain ego-bound humans want to be worshipped.

      1. 0
        Jake Gene Barnesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I would hope for much the same.
        Sadly, few religions take this stance of, "mutual respect." Though I wish more did.

    6. Jason2917 profile image59
      Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you everybody for your insight.

      The reason why I asked is because I see a lot of Christians getting into angry arguments over God's existence that tend, not to lead to conversion, but to misrepresentation of the One they're trying to prove exists.

      I was an atheist before coming to Christ. And I felt the exact same way as all of you. Reading your responses is exactly like reading my own thoughts from 10 years ago.

      Please understand that I'm not saying this to say that I'm smarter or better than anyone or have arrive at some more enlightened state. I really consider myself quite dense and slow. All I'm saying is that the focus of the discussion ought not to be God's existence, but His character.

      If anybody's interested, I wrote a hub about a year ago called, "What you Should See When You Look at God's Throne." It's brief, and not written to be a defense or an essay, it's just a glimpse at some misconception about God that has been caused by His enemies and followers alike.

      http://hubpages.com/hub/What-You-Should … ods-Throne

      Thanks again for your input and respectful dialog.

    7. Anesidora profile image82
      Anesidoraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No, proof alone would definately not be sufficient. It has long been my opinion that should the god of abraham exist as described by any of the Big 3, then we ought to be waging war against him.

      Character assessment and what are his/her intentions and all that aside, define worship. Like, think him or her a superior being? If appropriate. But genuflect and all that, not so much. That's like a power exchange, like a granting of special favor or control. Only my husband gets that.

      No. Why would I? Because he/she has power or control over what? My eternal life? If so, I guess I'd have to, if the alternative was proven to be eternity in a lake of fire, but it wouldn't be real. So still my answer would be no. It wouldn't be genuine worship.

      I'm having trouble with the concept of a being I'd find 'worthy' of worship ever wanting to be worshipped. It would sort of negate his worthiness in my mind.

      There are plenty of people I respect, some I admire and they're not always people I respect. Worship? I can't even imagine it anymore.

      Worship? Wow. Just seems like such a silly concept in the first place.

    8. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      A god would need to ask me to worship it. Nothing else would be required.



      Considering there is no evidence whatsoever for any gods existence, the question makes no sense.



      There is no cause to worship gods other than the god wanting to be worshiped. The real question to ask is why would a god want to be worshiped? I have never heard a reasonable response to such a question. smile

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Beelzedad  wrote...
           There is no cause to worship gods other than the god wanting to be worshiped. The real question to ask is why would a god want to be worshiped? I have never heard a reasonable response to such a question.

          - - - - - - -

        Jerami..
             I like your tone of voice..

         
          But we would need to reexamine the word worship?
         
        I could see hum/it  wanting to be acknowledged and appreciated.
        I'm pretty sure that blatant disrespect wouldn't be appreciated.

          And I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to be standing right in front of our face 24-7  blocking our view of this wonderful world that is right in front of our eyes to see and enjoy.

           I think he'd want to stay in our peripheral view,
        so-to-speak.

            But what do I know.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Why? Has Websters changed the definition recently? wink
           


          Why? An omnipotent and omniscient god should be well above that sort of petty self indulgence and selfishness.



          Why would I respect anything or anyone that required worship? There is no logic in that. An omnipotent and omniscient god would not need to be worshiped.

          smile

          1. Jerami profile image77
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Jerami wrote:

              But we would need to reexamine the word worship?

            Beelzedad  wrote 
               Why? Has Websters changed the definition recently?
            =============
               

            ME
                Webster didn't but I think you have forgotten some other definitions than the one that you seem to have been stuck on.
             
               And here I was trying to be nice and all.
               You just can't help it can ya? 
            Just like onion breath,  can't, just cant stop being offensive.

              Maybe you should open your Websters and read the word reexamine.  And while you are there... Look up faith;
            Ya might find that there are several definitions of what the word faith could be talking about..

               It is always good to reexamine our thoughts on just about every subject matter from time to time.

            1. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Such as... ?
               
               

              I am nowhere near as offensive as your religion is to the world.



              I understand those definitions, do you?

                 

              One can re-examine their thoughts, but that does not change reality. smile

    9. DellNixon profile image67
      DellNixonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I believe, I don't need a proof

      1. Daniel Carter profile image90
        Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Kids believe in Santa. They get their little hearts broken in the process. Growing up is tough stuff.

        1. kirstenblog profile image79
          kirstenblogposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I still believe in Santa, saw him once in my living room on christmas eve, after bed time. I know the guys in the malls are his helpers sure, but the guy I saw at 6 was Santa! Funny thing is I have more proof of the existence of Santa then I have for the existence of God hmm

        2. kirstenblog profile image79
          kirstenblogposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Are you going to say I am a kid then tongue

          Well nanana booboo stick your head in doo doo then tongue lol

    10. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      ...this "god thing" would have to appear before me with proper ID.
      A criminal background check would be necessary 'cause rumors are that this "god thing" had ordered the murder of many innocents, in fact, was responsible for destroying all life on earth but a few folks and animals.
      A blood sample would have to be taken to assure me that "it" hadn't been been partaking of the "hemp." etc., etc..
      If "it" was "clean," I'd invite "it" to participate in a "bully-beat-down" contest with an MMA champ of my picking.
      If "it" lost, I'd remand it to "hell" to suffer the pain and agony of burning forever as "it" had relegated others to do. If "it" wins (no chance) I'd get a 2nd opinion on "its" background check. If it came back "clean" again, I'd run "it" thru the same "bully-beat-down" program until I felt "it" could offer an apology, with great humility, for creating US in it's vainglorious, arrogant, ignorant, IMPERFECTION!!
      If it did that and I was satisfied "it" wasn't pullin' our leg, I'd give it a closed fist bump and invite it over for a beer and introduce "it" to my sister...oh by the way, she's a virgin! tee hee!
      Think "it" could make it happen again?    lol
      Qwark

    11. Ms Dee profile image85
      Ms Deeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      God died for me, so I worship him. It was God, because he came to life again after being dead for 3 days. He gives me eternal life.

  2. Dalyinx profile image88
    Dalyinxposted 6 years ago

    It depends on what incarnation of God we're talking about.

    I don't really like the idea of the Christian God, as he comes off as a jerk a lot of the time.  If the basis for worshiping him was that if I didn't, I'd go to hell, then I doubt I would.

    If he was all-caring and loving toward everyone regardless, then I don't see why not.

    1. 0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      agree.  The God of the bible seems insane - frying people on the spot for petty things.  Having such an inflated ego that needed stoking by human worship.  Threats of bad things if don't comply.  How's that love?

      If God actually helped people when sick etc and was fair and kind to everyone - I could love someone like that.  Worship them?  Probably not

    2. Jason2917 profile image59
      Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for your response, Dalyinx.

      Do you think it is God that comes off as a jerk, or people who falsely represent Him?

      1. pennyofheaven profile image82
        pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Good point and great question! Am interested to know too.

  3. pisean282311 profile image57
    pisean282311posted 6 years ago

    Well i dont reject god to start with. I dont consider god to be as religion claims it to be either. I consider god as system which operates on auto mode.The system creates ,maintains and destroys..Is there any need to worship system?..I dont think so...

    coming to more specific..what is god is more like religion preaches it to be?. Well i dont find it exciting to worship something for sake of salvation or heaven. It is more like trusting on god's weakness of getting worshiped than my own actions...if heaven is real i should be judged on what i did in my day to day life than how many times i prayed....if god wants to be worshiped , he needs to earn it...threats wont make be worship him...

  4. Bard of Ely profile image88
    Bard of Elyposted 6 years ago

    I don't see why anyone should worship anything or anyone. It isn't natural. I don't know of any animals that do this and we are animals too!

    1. kirstenblog profile image79
      kirstenblogposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you! big_smile

      Not sure I would trust any God that would want me worshiping it hmm
      Kinda like a club that would have me as a member, not sure I would want to be one! lol

  5. kess profile image61
    kessposted 6 years ago

    The proof of the pudding is not in  the pudding itself, but in the one eating.

    So therefore one will make the pudding whatsoever he desire.

    That is God.

    1. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Kess...trite "prattle!"

  6. 60
    foreignpressposted 6 years ago

    This is an interesting question because it will happen. As we go deeper into the end times, God will allow more information to be unveiled. Most likely this will be an archaeological find like the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant, or perhaps Noah's Ark will be uncovered. But cynics will still find reasons to blaspheme God. Only a few will ultimately have eternal life.

    1. 0
      Jake Gene Barnesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      We couldn't find Noah's Ark... wood doesn't last that long. It would've long since decayed and rotted leaving behind no evidence after more than 4000 years(according to the bible) of atrophy.

      Also, what evidence do you have that any of your views/claims are correct? You simply say that the "end times" are coming without having any empirical evidence to support your claim.

      Simply stating your belief or feeling that you are right is not proof of your claims.

      1. 60
        foreignpressposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        First of all, you're pitting science against a supernatural force called religion. There is no "empirical evidence" that God exists. But the Bible has been proven as a quasi-reliable historical document because of recent archaeological findings. And, I believe, there will be more to come. Yes, these are my feelings and beliefs. And I don't consider myself a Christrian or even remotely religious. I do have an open mind, however. As for the elusive Noah's Ark: It is scientific fact that ancient wood encased in ice can be kept whole for millenia. But that's beside the point. Either you believe or you don't.

        1. 60
          foreignpressposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          BTW, Merry Christmas.

        2. 0
          Jake Gene Barnesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I was simply stating that one should want to have empirical evidence to support their claims.

          The Bible may be somewhat historically accurate, but its "accuracy" pales in comparison to all the historical and scientific inaccuracies that are prevalent throughout most of it.

          Go to this website to see what I mean:

          http://www.evilbible.com/

          I know the name of the site is a bit, "off putting," but if you take a quick peek at it you'll see that they DO quote the Bible accurately, and they don't take things out of context (to often at least).

          As far as Noah's ark is concerned? I don't think we'll ever find it because I don't think it exists.

          Anyway, thanks for being a good sport about all this! smile

          And cheers!

          1. pennyofheaven profile image82
            pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            How do they (the people on that site link) know in what context whoever wrote Chronicles/Judges/King etc intended it? It is near impossible to know the context in which it was written.

            One thing that stands out with most of the bibles accounts of "God said this, that or the other" is that there was never any physical being present. It appears that there was only that which was inside the persons head. Which means it is highly possible that these people who did what they did because God told them to, could very well have been listening to their ego who is the supreme ruler of normal consciousness.

    2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
      Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      foreignpress, It is indeed a interesting question. Yes God will allow new revelation to be poured out and some eyes will be opened to the truth, and some will not.

  7. Shadesbreath profile image90
    Shadesbreathposted 6 years ago

    I'm sort of with Mark on this one.  If a being came down and could prove that it A) had the power to do amazing crap like move mountains etc., and B) that it required me to worship it or I would suffer (and maybe even proved that part too, by opening a window on hell or something in such a way that I was certain it was real), then I would worship it (out of fear and self interest).

    That does not mean it's really a God though.  It might just be an alien with better technology than us, or with psychic powers capable of causing hallucinations that are so vivid they feel real.

    I would worship an alien with the ability to prove or delude me the same way I worship God were he to do likewise.  And, as far as that goes, how does that God even know whether he is a God or just an alien created by the real God?  (And so on)

  8. 0
    luabuposted 6 years ago

    happy are those who have not seen and yet believe
    unless we become like children we shall not see god

    people who saw jesus bailed out/ie peter 3 times/ thomas/judas
    theres a great parable of the rich man in hell asking to go back to warn his brothers to be good and his request is denied on the basis that they will not believe him if he does go back
    we won't believe others
    we won't believe tv  ie moon landing
    we embelish what we think we saw
    so qued

    if god was waving a flag on my front porch i would probably manage to find a way to miss the field goal
    sad but true
    thomas

  9. pennyofheaven profile image82
    pennyofheavenposted 6 years ago

    Nice hub. I like this "radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature" ...very nice.

    1. Jason2917 profile image59
      Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you!

  10. 0
    kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago

    If he bought me a Starbucks and answered a few questions

    1. Jason2917 profile image59
      Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Forgive me for sounding "Christiany" but it almost sounds like you would be willing to have a "personal relationship" with Him!

      I remember being very young (7, 8 years old) and asking God a lot of questions. I wonder if I've lost some of my young, innocence and am not willing to ask Him things anymore...or maybe I've gotten old and don't think He's willing to respond. Either way, I do think God is willing to be questioned (in the best sense of the term) and is certainly able to answer.

      Thanks for your response.

  11. Woman Of Courage profile image60
    Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago

    Hi Jason, Forgive me, I did not realize I posted on the Atheism and Agnoticism thread. I will observe that next time before I post. Sorry.

  12. 0
    china manposted 6 years ago

    Sorry to break into such uninteresting stuff - but why would any god of any description require anyone or anything to worship it ?  If it is the BIG daddy of all daddies with all the power and glory bells and whistles - why would it want a few funny little pink blobs to 'worship' it ????

    1. 0
      luabuposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      ego i'suppose

  13. 0
    sandra rinckposted 6 years ago

    There are rock stars that play the meanest guitar I have ever heard, I think they are fantastic and can do what seem impossible for me to do.  Though many people will "exalt" them, if you will, because they can do it better than anyone else and exhibit some sort of super-natural ability to master something such as the guitar and many people might want to learn from that person because they are the best at what they do.  It's completely understandable.

    Now, say one person who is all about the worship of this master guitar player finally gets his chance to meet his "hero", the person that inspired him/her to want to be that good, and the person ask, "will you teach me"? 

    The person, full of hope believes that because he is the guitarist biggest fan and watches everything he has ever done, read everything he has ever written, went in depth about the lyrics to all his songs and knows all the details about his life, says to him/her...

    "Wow, I appreciate your loyalty but it really wasn't necessary, with or without it, I would still play the guitar the way I can play the guitar and I have my own guitar god I look up to and he told me the same thing I just told you."


    -worship is not necessary even if there was a real god who could move a mountain.

    1. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yep !  that is what I'm  A thinking too.   Kind sorta; maybe?

          There are different kinds of  "Worship"  and everyone understands the intensity that is expected under each one differently.

        Worship, adore, love , like very much.

         I kinda think that that word (itself) (worship) is one of those stretchy things.  If ya know what I mean?

      1. 0
        sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I actually can agree but could you imagine throwing burnt lambs at their feet?  Or sacrificing children as an expression of love?  Na, that is too crazy. Adulation.

  14. 60
    paganmoonchildposted 6 years ago

    i think that I would have to be seperate from something in order to worship it. i feel that i am not seperate from, but a small part of 'God' and that by my very existance i have all the proof i need.

  15. Daniel Carter profile image90
    Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago

    I've heard all the evidence there is. The jury has starved to death trying to get to a verdict. The papers keep running the same stories and the news reels are the same. Nothing new, IMO.

    All that said, I highly doubt there is going to be any further evidence, or new evidence now or in the future. God has not appeared. The Rapture has Ruptured.

    1. kirstenblog profile image79
      kirstenblogposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Rofl!

      Honestly say it ain't so! I was so looking forward to God taking away the fanatics. I really think this old world of ours would be so much more peaceful if God did come and rapture away the fanatical 'true believers' and it would be win/win, they got what they want and we are rid of 'em big_smile

  16. 0
    sandra rinckposted 6 years ago

    I read this article from CNN about dueling Christmas billboards.

    An Atheist Organization put up a billboard on the freeway that has a picture of the Nativity and it says, "You know it isn't true.  Celebrate reality."

    Then a Christian Organization got upset and put a billboard on the other side of the freeway with the same picture and it reads, "You know it is true.  Celebrate Jesus." 

    lol

    So the guy who put up the billboard got a smiting by the Christian community saying that he was attacking their god.  The guy replies "there aren't any reindeer or Santa clause in the Bible.  Christmas is an atheist holiday. lol lol lol

    Sorry, "myth" http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/11/26/t1larg.ireportbillboard.jpghttp://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/11/30/news/photos_stories/335642001C165014--300x300.jpg

  17. kirstenblog profile image79
    kirstenblogposted 6 years ago

    Great find Sandra, that is pretty funny lol

  18. adagio4639 profile image79
    adagio4639posted 6 years ago

    >"I am curious (not in a sarcastic way but genuinely) why do you not like the fact that He wants to be worshiped? I have a couple kids and I look at it in the same way as me wanting to be loved by my children.
    Your thoughts?"<

    Although this question wasn't posed to me, I figured I'd jump in anyway. I think that what you're doing is projecting your own anthropomorphic idea onto a God that would certainly be far beyond that. You may want to be loved by your children, and that's a normal human line of reasoning. But you seem to assume that God is simply some super extension of our own human desires. What possible desires could a God have? That would imply that something is missing in his reality that he needs to have in order to feel fulfilled. Why would a God have any desires at all? What could possibly be missing that he hasn't already dealt with? Do you actually want your children to worship you? To turn you into a deity to pay homage to and pray to? It seems to me that you hope that your children love you which is something that we as humans all would want. But as a parent, I don't want my kids to worship me and place me on some pedestal as a divine object of their affection. I'm a fallible human being with warts, scars, and too many faults to enumerate here. I think that it has to do with our concept of God or what we think a God would be. I have no concept of that. I mean how does one wrap ones mind around something like that? No matter what you come up with, couldn't somebody simply say, "I thought he was more than that?" What you're doing in that way is placing the limitations of your own mind or experience onto something that theoretically  has no limits.

 
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