jump to last post 1-43 of 43 discussions (349 posts)

is not jesus a myth?

  1. 0
    jomineposted 5 years ago

    there is no evidence that jesus as a historical figure lived. is it not a myth then?

    1. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      as long as jesus gives hope to people how does it matter?...coming to distinguishing myth and real....i agree we have very limited capacity to do that...few years back a survey was done in Britain and many believed Sherlock was real while Gandhi and Churchill were myth...

    2. pennyofheaven profile image81
      pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is no evidence that the Mona Lisa was in fact a portrait of Lisa del Giocondo. Only assumptions that the facial expressions are similar. And they lived in the same area. Unanimous assumption does not equate with reality but it is accepted. So who knows?

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yet, another reason not to worship Mona Lisa. smile

        1. pennyofheaven profile image81
          pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes

    3. Sundaymoments profile image85
      Sundaymomentsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I believe that throughout the years and the various interpretations of Gods word there is a lot of things that have been taken out context.

      However they have found evidence throughout the eastern coast that there was a "Jesus"
      SM

      1. 0
        china manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think so - the name itself is in disput, the form jesus is a Latinised form of another name which I guess must have been Hebrew. There are plenty of threads about this.  There is NO evidence of any single figure matching the description and actions of the biblical figure  -  except writings from many years after the supposed events.  Contemporary writers do not mention any such figure or any of the supposed events. 

        NO HARD EVIDENCE of any figure fitting any of the descriptions has been found - to promote such an idea is a blatant lie, or the repetition of a lie by others.

        1. 61
          DianaETXposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You could say the same thing about any figure in history, since you weren't there to see them, they don't exist.

          The writer Josephus mentions Jesus in his writings, he was a Jewish man who threw in his lot with the Romans.  He wrote about Roman history.

          No one ever saw Mohammad that lives now and yet people believe he lived. 

          What is your thought on Allah?

          1. 0
            china manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You are being ironic I assume?  nobody is so stupid as to need to see everything with their own eyes.   We rely on other people seeing with their eyes and then writing it down, we then decide whether they are telling the truth or were tricked or whatever.

            There is no proof of any kind that any Jesus figure existed except hearsay accounts by people many years later who, like you, seem to have been wound into the myth and believe it was true.

            Growing up is to accept that there are many things we don't know and we learn a few tools to deal with this. Corroborative evidence is one of the tools and there is none for any Jesus figure, so the whole story is on the same level as gossip and urban myth.

            1. towsen profile image60
              towsenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Do  you   believe  that       George Washington   and      Abraham  Lincoln   existed  although  we  were  not     there    we    only    have     written  literature  about  them ?  Is      there  a   possiblity   they   did  not      exist?  I      believe   they  did.   I       am   not       being   rude  or     smart  I     need   your  opinion   

              Thank  you   very  much

              1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                We have many photos of Abe, along with many documents written by his own hand.  We have portraits of GW and much of his written works.  The amount of historical documentation of both mentioned presidents is overwhelming at the very least.

                None of these things can be said for Jesus.  But I suppose you can't tell the obvious differences.  You would make a good Christian if this is indeed so.  lol

              2. towsen profile image60
                towsenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Thank  you  for   your  comment,

                I  believe  that    abraham  Lincoln  and  George  washington  existed  do  you  know  that  Abraham Lincoln  and  George  Washington  it  is  document  proof  believe  in  God  and  Jesus  and  they never  had  a  picture  of  Jesus  because  there  were  no  cameras   back  in  the  days  of  jesus  to  prove  how  he  looked.   But  they  believe   the  bible  said  blessed  is he   who  have  never  seen  but  believe. 

                Jesus  was  referring  to  himself.   He  knewed   that  one  day  he  would  leave  this  earth  and  people  who  never  have  seen  him  if  they  believe  in  him  will  have   everlasting  Life   John 3: 16

                Randy  my  frind  I  know  you  dont  believe  in  Jesus  but  he  love   you  anyway.  If  you  were  the  only  person  left  on  earth ,  Jesus  would  have  died  for  you.   He  love  you  and  so  do  I  regardless  what  you  say   about  me  a   Christian   and  Jesus  I  and  Jesus  will  love  you  even  more.   

                Have  a    good  night   my  Friend

                1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  If Jesus had stayed dead he would have sacrificed his life.  No big deal giving your life if your dad can simply bring you back again. No thanks, the other gods seem much smarter than yours.  smile

        2. 60
          hurryupandwait65posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          How old ru? May I ask? It seems to me u have it set in ur mind that Jesus ...or God, doesn't exist?.. WOW..I can see that u were not reaised to believe. Well, HE does exist. I believe. Yes, to proving He is alive...His cloth that he was buried in, was found and IT shows facial structure of our Lord. I do believe and know that because I believe, I will receive everlasting life as well. Don't want to risk going to the place where "There's knashing of teeth"...GOD says I will be in paradise..I will take that over living wrong anyday... smile GOD BLESS you..and answer me one more question, if u will?..When u hurt urself and are in intense pain or right b4 someone dies..do they not say OH GOD help me? <3 K

          1. Robertj64 profile image83
            Robertj64posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            If you are referring to the shroud of Turin, that cloth has been proven to be a fake. 
            You are an excellent example of how the "fear" of death has pushed people into believing of a heaven. 
            Shouting out and taking the God's name in vain does not offer up proof that he actually exists.  It is just our culture that has adopted that speech pattern and expression.

    4. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Jomine:
      Seriously, how can anyone KNOW?
      Did you think this question over before you asked it?
      There is no answer but: "who knows?"
      Anyone who says they 'KNOW" is just guessing.
      Qwark  smile:

      1. 0
        jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        yes qwark nobody can know
        what i pointed out is that for such a famous person(according to bible) there is nothing left to point out that such a person lived.
        if he was an obscure jew its ok. but no he forced himself to the synagogues and preached there, multitudes went after him, fed 5000-7000, resurrected two, including a roman, great events occurred during his birth and death, but no no contemporary writers or historians noticed him, nor he left any letters.
        just that.......

    5. Shahid Bukhari profile image60
      Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is a world of difference, between History and Truth ...

    6. couturepopcafe profile image60
      couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey, Jomine, did you not get your answer in the other several posts you made on this subject?  Or have you just not had enough to satisfy your 'curiousity'?  I'm not sure what kind of evidence you would require but the evidence that does exist is about the same as it is for any ancient figure, Aristotle, the Caesars, Mohamed, Tutankhamen, anybody.  The farther away a culture is in time from anyone who ever lived, regardless of documentation or achievements, the less we are likely to believe they existed and the more distorted the facts of their existence becomes.

    7. 61
      ddlg1958posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Jasmine, by every critical standard for determining whether a person truly existed or not, He did. Argue his deity if you must, but pretending that the evidence is not out there from other sources is pointless.

      1. steven oliver profile image59
        steven oliverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        this is true...  Not only is the bible a book with the most reliable and numerous manuscripts backing it of any ancient text, but also Josephus (a secular ancient historian) pointedly records Jesus' existence.  glad you left this comment...

        1. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Josephus was not born until after the death of Jesus.  lol

          1. Rwritings profile image61
            Rwritingsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            F.Y.I. Josephus lived in the 1st century c.e. therefore he had to be a contemporary of Jesus.

    8. the pink umbrella profile image72
      the pink umbrellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      i wouldnt say that there is no evidance that he lived. What i would say is that there is no physical evidance of his mericles. That is not to say that they did not happen. I think believers are going on a little something called faith.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What evidence is there that he lived - outside of what the priests say?

    9. oceansnsunsets profile image87
      oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for sharing your beliefs with us all.  Man, a whole lot of people will not have existed now with those kinds of constraints on what it takes to have existed 2000 years ago.   

      The whole topic of Jesus, or idea, doesn't act at all like a typical myth.  We do know one thing, that if he DID exist, AND his message were true, then everything would look JUST as it does in this world, history and in people's actions now.  That is something no one can make true or not.  (Including many people insisting it is all just a myth.)

      1. Randy Godwin profile image95
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And if he didn't exist in myth, things would be the same also, except more people would be around to enjoy life.  The Crusades and other religious wars tell us that. smile

        1. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It don't matter how you slice it ....  approx the same number of people would have died in our past  ..  with or without War, Disease, or starvation.

              Everyone in our past has died.  how would you have liked to have changed that?
             Would you have perfered they had died a different way ?

             Or do you wish they were still with us ??

             I am serious !

             How would you change it ?

          1. Randy Godwin profile image95
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I don't see how you arrived at your math, Jerami.  Without the crusades there would have been more people on earth.  Without any religion at all, at least 6 million Jews would have had time to create several generations of offspring.

            How many children would have been alive today if Jim Jones hadn't talked his followers into taking poison and giving it to their kids?  These are merely a few examples.  What do you suggest would have killed all of the mentioned people instead?

            1. Jerami profile image79
              Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              But you are avoiding the question.

                 OK !     Let me expain.    Everybody that has died didn't have more children.  Is that your point ?   

                Let us assume that they didn't die from war.  They had even more children that had children,  Our current population  "could" be twice what it is today.  More people would be starving to death than what already are,  OR  ..
              ?????

                  People are going to die.  OR   we can keep having babies and soon be standing shoulder to shoulder with no place to sit.

                 What do you suggest as a better system than what nature already has.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                We already know what would be better, Jerami!  World peace and less religion and hatred among the different cults.  Look how long birth control was frowned upon by the Catholic Church and how those around the world who would have made use of such birth control did not have it.  The money saved on wars would have fed many more people at any rate.

                Science would have accelerated at a faster rate also.  Earlier scientists were afraid to announce their findings because of the threat of heresy from the religious of the time. 

                Nope, religion retards advancement in most instances.

                1. steven oliver profile image59
                  steven oliverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  perhaps it's not religion that is the problem but rather the mishandling of it.  one could easily point to examples of the mishandling of science.  this doesn't make science bad or false.  so why must we villanize religion?

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Because it spreads lies to other people and they are foolish enough to believe it as truth.  This is proven by your amusing Josephus claim.  Was it not?  Oh wait, let me guess-you read it on a Creationists website.  lol

            2. Rwritings profile image61
              Rwritingsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Randy,
              If you do the research (search the historic archieves) in the last century more
              people were slain in the name of atheism than all of the reglious wars whatever the religions that were raged for thousands of year.

              Case in point: Mao Tse Tun (Atheistic Communist) regime was responsible
              for the deaths of 80 million people during the mid 20th century c.e.

              1. Cagsil profile image82
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                And, if more religious folks did there research, then they would know Christianity and many other religions are nothing but a hoax.

        2. oceansnsunsets profile image87
          oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          A lot of the reasons we see that Christianity is attacked, are indeed things that Jesus would have spoken against as well.  Ironic how some people really end up supporting what they are supposedly against. 
          Jesus never taught the very things you are using as examples to criticize him or the movement he began.  He taught the opposite.  If you care to learn what Jesus actually taught, then maybe this error we keep on seeing wouldn't happen so much.  Its reasoning full of holes and poor thinking.  Facts, logic and reason matter here. 
          The truth is, if everyone lived by the things Jesus taught, then the world would be a much better place.  Those are the facts, undeniable. 
          Every time people use the "crusades or killing" as an excuse, we can all see right through it.  You do know that Jesus not only taught opposite of that, he died proving the opposite.  The apostles did too.  The crusades give credence to a bigger problem, seen all throughout history. Pinning that on Jesus doesn't work.  So far, you agree with Jesus, if you are anti killing lol.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image95
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You have no idea exactly what Jesus taught as there is no validated record of his existence or exact words.  The gospels were originally written in Greek "according to" the alleged apostles of Yoshua.

            It would be great to be positive he ever said anything purported to be his words, but we have no such guarantee.  I suppose some are fine with words which he "may have uttered" but no one knows for sure if the writer just made them up.  Does it make a difference to you?  Or is it okay no matter who made up the words?  Think about it, if you dare  smile

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hi Randy. It is pointless to argue, since the only eyewitness accounts were written by people you don't trust. But, don't you wonder why Christianity could have spread so rapidly if it wasn't the truth? Here you have a religion that put the world on it's head, so to speak, in it's relationship with theCreator and how people regarded each other. The only thing believers stood to gain was death. They weren't a conquering army. Just people willing to die for what they knew to be true. That's a pretty powerful argument to me.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                How do you know this?  There have been many religions which have spread rapidly over the course of history.  Does this, in itself, mean they all have real gods.  Of course not, just yours right?

                The gospels were considered as almost a serial of the Jesus story.  The Greek writers knew this and took advantage of the popularity of the saga.

                And yes, isn't it sad the believers were willing to endure such harsh treatment if they were merely being duped by others?  We see the very same results today when delusion presents itself to rational people.

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Well I would disagree with other religions spreading in the same way and with the speed that Christianity spread, and yes it would be horrible if they died in vain. But they weren't delusional and neither are followers of Christ today.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And you know this how?

                2. Rwritings profile image61
                  Rwritingsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  During the early days of the movement that would later be called Christianity claiming that you believe in Jesus was considered a crime punishable by death and even today in the 21st centurary in some counties being a Christian is a crime punishable by death.   If something is false would you continue to believe in it if believing in it could get you killed?  I doubt it!

        3. oceansnsunsets profile image87
          oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If Jesus were a myth, a lot of history and what we see currently would not look like it does, not at all.  That is just taking the opposite side for the sake if taking it, it seems.  If a real God were to reveal himself in a real way, to humanity, we would expect to see things look just as they do.  The whole planet changed forever, lives continuing to be changed in amazing ways, thousands of years later, and more.  People still can't seem to stop talking about it, (as we see in these forums... ) 
          This is why I think so many are on a hunt to kill the message, that has never changed.  The use of extreme inconsistency in thinking regarding that one worldview in particular is that way for a reason.  Anyway, its not for sufficient lack of evidences that people don't believe.  It is part of the free will of man to reject it and other things as well.  Its fine to do, but the whole game thing, accusations and attack mode doesn't add up unless it is actually true.  That is ironic and undeniable.

    10. Dian'swords4u profile image60
      Dian'swords4uposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is a book called The Holy Bible that was given to us by God who created the world and everything that is in it.  God spoke our world into place.  No one else could do this  Man has to have something to create something else.   He gave us the Bible through his direction of dedicated men of God and what the Bible says is the truth.  No I have not seen Jesus, but others did in his time on this earth.  I accept Jesus on faith and that is what we have to have in order to believe in Jesus and that he is God's son and that he died on the cross for our sins so that we might have eternal life through him.  I don't have to see Jesus to believe in him.  I feel him move in my heart each and every day of my life.  Jesus is not a myth.  He is real.

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Interesting, considering that all the heart does is pump blood. Are you saying our blood is Jesus? smile

        1. Dian'swords4u profile image60
          Dian'swords4uposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I am saying that because I have asked Jesus into my heart spiritually speaking, I know he is alive.  I know the physical heart just pumps blood, but the spiritual heart or the sould is where Jesus abides and lives in us and guides us through our daiyly lives.  The sould is where Jesus abides in us.

          1. Cagsil profile image82
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Can you prove you have a soul? hmm

            1. Dian'swords4u profile image60
              Dian'swords4uposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I most certainly can.  In Genesis 2:7 it says, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul."  Our soul is the immortal part of our body and it will be the part of our body that either goes to heaven or hell.  Mine is going to heaven.

              1. Cagsil profile image82
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                YOU as a person cannot prove you have a soul. But, thank you for the conjecture from your debunked religion.

                1. Dian'swords4u profile image60
                  Dian'swords4uposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't have a religion.  I have a relationship.  That is the reason it is real and not debunked.  I serve a living God who created me and loves me and sent His Son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins and also for your sins as well.  This statement is not to be mean.  I only hope that you can understand the relevance of what I am saying.  If I did not believe it so strongly, I would not make the effort for your well being.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    When did you stumble onto this religion, Dian?  How many different religions did you check out before you decided to be a Baptist, Methodist, or what ever church our parents took you too?

                    You did get indoctrinated at an early age, right?  smile

                  2. Cagsil profile image82
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes you do. Sorry that you cannot understand that. You cannot have a relationship with a god and NOT have a religion, because religion created the god concept, NOT the other way around.
                    You have a relationship with yourself is what you have.
                    Interesting that you claim not to have a religion, but speak about religion within your words. Therefore, it shows you lack the knowledge and understanding of your own words.

                    I didn't say anything about it it being mean? hmm
                    I understand what you're saying and it's complete nonsense, because of all available knowable knowledge in existence, which you completely dismiss makes it of no sense.

                    My well being? You're joking right. It's funny how you consider your reply to me, for my well being. Apparently, since you have trouble being honest with yourself, I guess you cannot be honest with me. Oh well. It was worth a shot. You're no different than any other religious person.

          2. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I think you are referring to your brain where such activities such as beliefs reside. There's doesn't appear to be such a thing as a 'spiritual heart' as anything spiritual has never been shown to exist.

            Some use their brains to think while in others the capacity for thinking has been overridden with irrational beliefs, hence they are unable to coherently think and understand concepts.

            The soul is another such thing that has never been shown to exist and no believer has ever been able to distinguish from anything else from our physical states of being. smile

            1. Dian'swords4u profile image60
              Dian'swords4uposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I am going to make one more attempt at this.  I really should not even remark, but I would hope that you could actually FEEL something inside yourself.  If you have ever fallen in love with a woman or another person, it was not your brain that fell in love with that person.  It was your heart or soul that fell in love with that person.  You had feelings that you could not explain with the powers of your brain.  Yes I do think with my brain, I do understand the consepts of my beliefs with my brain but the deep emotions that I have are in my heart or soul.  This is where God lives in my soul.  When I lost my father 2 months ago, I did not feel with my brain I felt it deep in my soul.  I still do.  This is not something of the brain, it is of the soul.  My relationship with God is not something of my brain it is in my soul where my emotions lie and yours also if you could ever turn loose of your need to stifle them and let your soul actully feel.  You seem to be a very concrete, bitter person who is missing out on a lot of joy and happiness in your life.  I am not trying to push my beliefs on you.  That would do no good.  You have to be the one to make up your mind to that.  It is apparent to me that you have had something in your life that has essentially shut down your emotions except for bitterness and the need to always be right.  Therefore, I am done with this debate.  I have not lost, you have.

              1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Dian'sword4, Thank you for sharing the truth about the heart, soul and brain. God bless you sister!

              2. Beelzedad profile image60
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That is nonsense, the heart pumps blood and there is no such thing as a soul. It all happens in the brain, which then triggers the release of biochemicals in your body that makes all those things happen. This is simple biology.

                 

                The brain triggers those feelings, which are the result of the biochemicals being released in your body, again, simple biology.



                The heart pumps blood and is unable to have 'emotions' - it all happens in the brain.



                No, your brain understands the concept of your fathers death and releases biochemicals in your body, which is what you are feeling, nothing more. Simple biology.



                Sorry, but the soul has never been shown to exist.



                What utter garbage. The fact that I don't share your religious beliefs does not mean I'm bitter or am missing out on anything.



                lol

                Clearly, you're unable to carry on a debate without having to resort to personal insults and lies. How very Christian of you. smile

                1. Jerami profile image79
                  Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Beelzedad; Clearly, you're unable to carry on a debate without having to resort to personal insults and lies. How very "whatever" of you.

                     Evidently you are unable to understand the concept of emotion and/or feelings.  Therefore you are not able to debate such things.   How  sad!

                  1. Beelzedad profile image60
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Jerami, are you showing yet another area of understanding that you don't understand? smile

    11. oceansnsunsets profile image87
      oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      People like to rule out the Bible as being historical evidence.  However, eyewitness evidence to the life of Jesus by his contemporaries is a very strong evidence for many, and rightly so.

      People like to throw out those evidences, and demand more and stronger ones than eyewitness testimony many times over.  Then they can say things like, "there is no evidence, why do people believe in fairy tales, etc.?" 

      That is really just the expression of people's own beliefs on the subject, not really relying on facts of matters for proofs that help us to know if an individual existed 2000 years ago.

      That we have what we have, is amazing.  That many wanted to hide the message and kill it back then, and continue to on to today, is almost more of an amazing evidence to me and many others.  You really couldn't ask for more.
      I trust the amazing eyewitness testimony of those that lived, ate and walked with him, and even Luke, who was a close confidant of those that did as well.  That the dead sea scrolls support other parts of the bible is amazing.

      If you do an honest study on what constitutes reliable written words from long ago, nothing in all of history has what the bible has to back it up.  We can trust they wrote what they did, much more than say that Shakespeare wrote what he did.  Do a study on manuscripts, evidences, ancient texts, etc to see if I am making this up.  Its amazing for those that want to know the truth.  The things that no one can make true or not, but that just seem to be.

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Based on eyewitness accounts, all you have is a guy who walked around with some interesting new ideas that intrigued those particular people. So what?

        This does not follow with anything that would support a resurrection or bestowing a divine nature to that guy. There is a huge difference when discussing the "Bible as being historical evidence" to a guy wandering around with ideas.

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          uhhh, they weren't new ideas, and saying they were only proves you know squat. And stimulated controversy and debate for billions of people for two thousand years. Pretty impressive for someone who never existed. Better than bowing to Joe the plumber.

          1. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Lashing out? Feel better, now? smile

            1. Druid Dude profile image61
              Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry Joe. I didn't mean to attack plumbers.

        2. oceansnsunsets profile image87
          oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I will have to respectfully disagree, that what Jesus said and did just intrigued those particular people of that time.  We see many even now, and ever since he died be intrigued.  Notice too, the very nature of the responses....rarely is it just a ho hum response. That message triggers usually one of two responses in people, though some just ignore it. 

          I don't know why the Bible should be ruled out as historical evidence, with all of the amazing evidences tied to it.  Its uncanny, almost for a man that had a public life of only 3 years.  He was a "nobody" in some ways, but then everything, in others.  Miracles surrounding his whole life from pre birth to the end.  For a guy like that?  It commands attention for sure.  I think this is just as it would be, if God wanted to communicate to humanity directly, yet also allow for the choice to reject it if one insists.

          1. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, we see that what Socrates, Plato and a host of other philosophical legends said back then also intrigues people of today.



            You are making claims that are not supported. What evidences are you referring to, exactly?



            Those so-called miracles are hardly believable and are most likely either fabrications or exaggerations. They do little more than support the idea that Jesus was indeed a myth. smile

            1. Druid Dude profile image61
              Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              or had access to methods we don't. CPR started in 1963. Pretty simple stuff. Many of our Drs. were considered magicians and miracle workers not thirty years ago in some places. Your statements are really about ego. The universe must revolve around our comprehension of it or it simply must not exist. That is what we hear from you. ALL the time. Blah, blah, blah.

              1. Beelzedad profile image60
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Like, through most of the bible belt, Kansas and so on...?



                I have no idea where you got that.



                Then, don't read and respond to my posts. A very easy solution. smile

                1. Druid Dude profile image61
                  Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  A response to argumentative statements issued only to back up your obvious fear of christians and their beliefs, using inane, ambiguous arguments from a position mid-lake while standing on thin ice, is what I live for. Can't take it? POOOR baby. You haven't a clue, don't want a clue, and wouldn't know a clue it it jumped out at you and said "BOO!" So, exactly what is your point for being here other than arguing for the sake of arguing? What? Can't take it? POOOR baby. smile Still smilin'

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yup. Thanks for demonstrating how aggressive Christians are. Well done. Still laughing at your hypocritical belief system. lol Do ya lub me? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

                  2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                    Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Druid, He is here to argue and mock believers, hoping to upset believers. hmm I am not ashamed of my faith in God.

            2. oceansnsunsets profile image87
              oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I don't really see what we see with Jesus, with Socrates, Plato and a host of other figures.  If you do though, that is fine.  They are great, don't get me wrong..I love a good philosopher!  Philosophy is one of my favorite topics.  I like to observe others' philosophies, like in these forums, if you watch you can see them playing out in the discussions.

              The claims I am speaking of are just the biblical evidences in manuscripts vs other ancient texts of all time.   If you do a true study of this, use even much more recent history say even Shakespeare for example (and we all automatically trust that he wrote what he wrote with much much less, centuries later even), you can see that the biblical manuscripts have great support over other literature.  This is simply amazing.  I don't look at those facts lightly, like some do.  Instead of finding proof over time to debunk the Bible, we see only more support. 

              You don't have to believe me, I am inviting you to research it yourself if you want to know the truth on it is all. The point of the miracles, is that those things don't happen, and only a being with powers not limited to the natural laws we all are, could talk so "big", as Jesus did.  The very stamp of God was on him it seemed, was the point.  If those kinds of evidences don't impress, I don't know what would, and it seem there may be more going on in that regard.  I respect your right to totally disagree.

              1. Beelzedad profile image60
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                They all had some interesting ideas. Of course, the existence of Jesus is under dispute.



                Correction, other "religious" ancient texts.



                Sorry, but I don't see that at all.



                Again, I don't see that at all.



                What exactly is the "stamp of God"? Who decides that?

                 

                It's not really a matter of disagreeing, it's a matter of your so-called evidences actually existing. smile

                1. Jesus1st profile image60
                  Jesus1stposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  To Beelzedad: Jesus is only under dispute to those who don't know Him! If you live long enough to get to know Him you'll understand that what you believe is what you believe, and it means nothing to those of us who truly believe that Jesus is our Savior. Your disputing will NEVER refute that!God Bless U!

      2. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus falls more into the category of Semi-legendary. This is actually accurate. Not quite a fact, not quite a myth. One other fact shoud be considered. Crucifixion. By all historical evidence, crucifixion was common practice in Rome and elsewhere, but especially in the Roman controlled areas. Very popular. The Slave rebellion led by Sparticus was said to have ended with the road to Rome and hundreds of crucifixions, yet, only one heel bone with a spike through it, is the only piece of real evidence that has ever been found that it was practiced at all. Next, deny the holocaust. Nothing worse than someone who obviously wants to wallow in ignorance. I have no patience with that. They are being OBTUSE. Go, run for your dictionaries! smile

        1. Jesus1st profile image60
          Jesus1stposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The only person that you'll need to be concerned about, when you face God, Dude, is YOU! Think about it!

      3. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Very well stated. The bible is a historical and spiritual book. That's amazing! It's the greatest book of all. The truth will always stand. God bless you Oceansnsunsetts big_smile

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          In all, it is estimated that Rome alone crucified tens of thousands.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes - Roman Christians sure did kill a lot of other Christians.

            sad

        2. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No - not really. It certainly does cause a lot of wars though. Well done. I no u like to fight. Like wot god sed. sad

    12. 60
      MARIAMORTAposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I suppose myth is anything you feel awckward about, like anything that you believe to be a confusing figure. In this sense, it has to be true that Jesus was a myth. Basically, all we currently know about him is told by the Bible and some isolated pieces of writing. Yet, if you read the New Testament, the inconsistencies are so huge that you cannot believe anything they claim to be Jesus' life or almost anything. I have written a fair bit about the whole lot in my hubs, please look. On the other hand, if you are a religious person, it actually suffices that you approach one of the violators of my brains and body (am not joking!) and find a way of either having them writing a witnessing note for you (certified) or you writing yourself 'after seeing' and giving that to me so that I can finally have justice. Jesus, as for all we know, even offered his own blood and body to others in a meal, at least symbolically. Well, human kind definitely took me to be as stupid as that, otherwise I would not be suffering atrocity for so long, by so many, I believe. I actually have horror of the description of Jesus' history in the Bible and believe the New Testament should not be there at all, just like the Jews, who Jesus claimed to be his people, also believe. Rush to save me from these atrocities, please, restore my human rights, and give me maximum human justice. I have a page 'on how to help', pls access it and read. Any issues call +61466068832 or send me a message so that I know about them, like even if you help me with a donation, for instance, and 2,000 euros would help me publishing my article on scientific evidence of the device in my head, for instance, let me know via SMS because there is nothing and nobody I do not get stolen from my life and being by Australia and others since end of 2001. It is obviously more than urgent. I also had all destroyed criminally in my brains, body, and life, by the own authorities from first world nations, believe it or not, and the authorities from a last world nation, where I came from originally. Rush to help. I am sure I was entitled not only to rights, but to best treatment available in human kind at most by 2000.

      1. Jesus1st profile image60
        Jesus1stposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Mariamorta, I believe you need help!!! Jesus will help you, if you ask Him to! No invasion, no blood required. Christians are the reason you're so confused. Many of them have no more clue about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit than you do. Truly sad isn't it?

    13. danieliam profile image61
      danieliamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Maybe you should spend some time reading some Apologetic on the subject to find out why we who are followers of Jesus believe that he indeed Jesus is real. Understanding why we believe might give you a clue into if he is real or not. Just a thought.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm impressed that you could even follow that. He lost me after myth.

    14. Ur Anaite profile image60
      Ur Anaiteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It is not a myth, Sorted.

    15. Jesus1st profile image60
      Jesus1stposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Humanity has the problem with understanding Jesus because humanity does not have knowledge of, or an understanding about spiritual things. Have you ever doubted or denied any meaning of words listed in Webster's dictionary? I'm willing to bet that you haven't! Did you ever meet Daniel Webster? NO! But you believe what the dictionary says without question! If you went to college you sucked up everything presented to you - right or wrong! Why? Because a man said it!
      You need to realize that all these people who claim to know so much about Jesus are self seekers trying to influence you to be on the same, go to nowhere, road they're on. They are the blind leading the blind!
      I fully understand why you are so confused about the validity of Jesus. You live in a world that is SELF motivating, and Self fulfilling to a point that things you don't understand are foreign to you, so you blindly reject them.
      From what you're saying here, you've never even opened a Bible, so there's no way you can come close to understanding what spiritual things are.
      To those of us who are Christians and followers of Christ these people who have their falty, blind, and ungodly opinions mean absolutely nothing.
      No one on this palnet can convince me that God has not been a major factor in my life and to my success in my life. They can talk till they're blue in the face, but I'll totally ignore their ignorance.
      They try to downplay the Bible teachings but they've never read the Bible. And, if they have read it they do not understand that the Bible is a spiritual book that cannot be understood with the puny human mind! They do not comply to each other.
      Allow me to give you a brief Bible lesson. If you have a Bible please look in it so that you will see what I'm attempting to enlighten you on. Look at John 4:24. It says "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." The problem here is that most of you who think you know so much about God, Jesus, and the Bible fail to realize that what you're saying makes you look totally ignorant to the eyes of the world!
      If you are not a spiritual person there is no way that you have the right to even comment on the things of God, and of Jesus Christ!
      The one writer in previous blogs made the, misled, statement that they wanted someone to "save them." This shows their ignorance because only God can save you, and you are so ignorant to fall out of favor with the only one in the Universe that can save you.
      I say this to all you anti- Jesus people... keep running your mouth. Your words WILL come back to haunt you!!!

    16. yolanda yvette profile image60
      yolanda yvetteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      New Testament accounts on Jesus existence are based on eyewitnesses, whereas mythical accounts are not.

      2 Peter 1:16 says, 'For we have not followed cunningly devised fables(myths), when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty.'

      1. Cagsil profile image82
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You might want to learn more about your precious religion. hmm

        1. yolanda yvette profile image60
          yolanda yvetteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I am learning more about Jesus every day.  One thing I know for certain is that He exists, regardless of who doesn't believe.  And for those who don't believe, I'd like to know where's your evidence?

          1. Cagsil profile image82
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well, I can say you've learned well from your religion. You immediately jump to claim proof for something not said.

            I said you should learn more about your religion. I didn't say anything about Jesus, which you obvious don't understand, because of a lack of knowledge about your own religion.

            You're more than welcome to check out my proof that your Christianity religious philosophy is false.

            Maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something new for once. smile

            1. yolanda yvette profile image60
              yolanda yvetteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              What is your proof?

    17. towsen profile image60
      towsenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There  was  eyewitness  accounts  that  the  Jesus  of  the  Bible  existed  the  apostles  who  had  been  with   him  even  after  he  died  wrote  about  him. The  Apostle  Paul  in  the  book  of  Acts   before  he  became  a    christian  hated  christians   and  had  them  put  to  death.   

      Paul  was  called  Saul  before  his  conversion  in 35AD paul  didnot  believe  in  Jesus  before  his  conversion.  He  was  a   athiest   until  he  had  a   experience  with  Jesus  in  Acts  9 chapter.   After  that  experience  Paul  began  to  preach  Jesus  the  Bible   Jesus  as  real   he  wrote  the  epistles  in  prison.   All  the  eyewitnesses   wrote  about  him  and  it  was  documented  history  from  the  time  it  was   written  until  this  day.     I  have   a   queston    why  would these   witnesses    give  their  lives  for  thing  or  someone  that  is  false?

      1. towsen profile image60
        towsenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I  am  sorry  i  meant   something  not   thing .  Have  a   good  day.

    18. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      myth means symbolic stories. Jesus is part of Christian mythology. But myth does not mean lies, it has come to mean that. But it does not mean that. It means symbolic stories that persist. Was Jesus a historical figure. There accounts of Jesus outside the bible. In that respect, he is a historical figure, although his exact existence cannot be placed precisely but somewhere in a 30 year span. The questionable character is Moses, there are no adoptive or actual sons of pharoah bearing this name. His name means from out of the waters which also means--from out of consciousness.

    19. 59
      maxxoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No errors in the BIBLE.  JESUS was NOT a myth 2 verses in the BIBLE

      Gen. 1-1  and John 1-1 should straighen things out for you.

      1. towsen profile image60
        towsenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Way  too  go   maxxo   that is  what  the bible   says   keep  up  the   good  works

    20. Shahid Bukhari profile image60
      Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Myths are Unsubstantiable Notions ... which could, or may not, be Held in terms of a stated Narrative

      Peace and Blessings of God be Upon Jesus Christ, the son of Blessed Mary ... For he is a Sign, the Manifestation, of The Word of God.

      1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
        ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        err. this is wrong.

        1. Shahid Bukhari profile image60
          Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Denial ... does not need feet to stand.

          1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
            ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            no i just happen to know what myth actually means. Because I'm in that field. Your definition is wrong.

            http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC12/Campbell.htm
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgOUxICCHoA

            oh and just to show you I'm in that field, watch my TEDtalk:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySRIvlmPbH0

            Ignorance stands on assumptions.

            1. Shahid Bukhari profile image60
              Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you ... I read/watched, your referred clips, these helped Confirm, what was previously, Assumption.

              You see, we have fundamental differences of perception, vis a vis, The Reality.

              You think, Knowledge is Acquired, I Believe, its Granted... though you Agree with a someone's saying, that it is impossible to State, the Truth ... and I am doing, exactly that.

              Besides, you are a Materialist, still searching for your Material bearings ...  while I know of my humble Station in life, and am resigned to the Predestination of my Being.

              You deny, God, and His Created, thus, you are a Chrirsian turned Aetheist, hence, the standard Secular Scholar,  while I am a simple Practicing Muslim ... trying to share my little known.

              So lets do our respective jobs, and agree ... with Shakespeare, "That the Twain shall never meet."

              Goodbye

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I'm not a materialist nor an atheist. (Just went to church last sunday) and my late father was a converted Muslim, (he tried, but alas I have my own mind) but yes, I am a mythologist. and mythology is the study of stories that are expressed as radical differences of perception of the same thing, visavis reality about knowledge that is granted AND acquired. This is a forum. We come here to discuss. You accuse denial, I refute it. No need to take it personally just because you are proven wrong. Or name-calling.

                if you don't want to grow, don't peep out of your seed.

                1. 0
                  china manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  big_smile  go CCB !!  thanks for the amusing post, but I would have to butt in to suggest that you, who complains about the price of your cleaner, is not a materialist might be pushing the ripost a litte far big_smile

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                    ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    lol! $100 dollars? really? they get paid more than writers here in hubpages. lol!

                2. Shahid Bukhari profile image60
                  Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I said, I am a humble Muslim, I am not here to refute or accuse ... I am sharing, what I know ... of Truth.

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                    ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    sharing means you accept and give
                    you take what you dish out

                    if you want to say goodbye, stop talking. I am not saying goodbye. I am here to discuss, you don't want to answer that's good too. But you can't make me stop talking, you can only ignore me. when you do the discussion ends.

            2. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Myth: A traditional story accepted as history; serves to explain the world view of a people. smile

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                yes this is true, although it wasn't intended to be so.

          2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
            ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            and if you don't know what TED is, check this out:
            http://www.ted.com/

            1. Shahid Bukhari profile image60
              Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No I did not know about TED ... after reading your clip, it seems more like a cult, than altruistic assemblage ... of noble souls.

              But the Nobel Prize to Al Gore, is now thoroughly explained

              Good bye

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Shahid Bukhari, if you call research a cult, then you best go to your own Muslim religion and pray five times a day for knowledge. goodluck!

                and while you're praying, meditate on this: bismillâh ir-rahmân ir-rahîm, Qul huwa Allâhu ahad

                Allah is ONE.

                It is we who divide.

                1. Shahid Bukhari profile image60
                  Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks, and reckon, thats a good way of saying ... good bye.

    21. Ruben Rivera profile image79
      Ruben Riveraposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Who cares, the important thing is myth or no myth has influenced the world greatly.

    22. seedling profile image59
      seedlingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Josephus the historian wrote about Jesus and was essentially a contemporary.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image95
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Completely false!  Josephus was born after the so called death of JC.  Do not use information from Creation sites as facts.  They all regurgitate the same debunked information.

        1. seedling profile image59
          seedlingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That's why I said "essentially".

          1. Randy Godwin profile image95
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "Almost" would have served just as well!  smile

    23. Thomas E Phillips profile image60
      Thomas E Phillipsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Among New Testament scholars (both Christians and non-Christians), this question is sometimes asked (I have a PH.D. in New Testament).  The answer is nearly always, "No, Jesus was not a myth.  He did exist."  The only serious NT scholar of late to doubt this is Robert Price.  Even atheistic scholars like Bart Ehrman (University of North Carolina) generally accept the existenence of Jesus.  The real question is not whether or not Jesus existed, but rather what type of person was he?  To investigate this question, consult the book: The Historical Jesus : Five Views.  http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Jesus- … amp;sr=8-1
      tom

      1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
        ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        a PhD...yes you are correct. I have read that book.

      2. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I trust Price's rare capacity for critical thinking, and although I don't have a PHD in the new testament, I have studied all the books of the bible and many early religions to arrive at my beliefs.

        2,000 years, all the scientific capacity to examine evidence that we have today, yet still not one spec of real evidence, unlike so many before his time.

  2. 0
    Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago

    Well, actually it does matter if one confuses myth with reality. The Dark ages were the result of consistently feeding people superstition. We only got to the level of technology and science we have now because for a short while there we eliminated superstition.

    It's returning big time now. When people cannot differentiate between superstition and science, then we are approaching another dark age.

    And I firmly believe we are.

    In my lifetime, I have seen ignorance become a roaring fire.

    1. 0
      china manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I can agree with this - the inability to see myth and metaphor are two dimensional thinking.  And the mishmash of ignorance and superstition that seems to be erupting all around is astounding in these times of so much information and factual evidence to hand.

      I have this idea that it is a retreat from reality. With western economies pretty much in recession for the last twenty years life has been - hard while all around the myth of a good life screams out from billboards and the tv.  The 'normal' life that is promised is unnattainable for most and so is a myth.  Which it is, created by advertisers and the media.

      I am very struck by the number of new christian types who appear to know it is myth but carry on regardless - deliberately propogating what they know to be a lie, maybe because the truth is not to their taste.

      The only problem is that it does not address the issues for change, it avoids meeting the problems head on and just allows it to continue and get worse.

      1. 0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        China man, totally.

        Actually, the degree of ignorance frightens the living daylights out of me. These people cling together in a mob mentality and lynch reason. And like any other mob throughout history, they honestly believe that what they are doing is right.

        I think the reason so many get caught in these superstitions is because they are constantly bombarded by the media as to what they should have, and they fall far short of achieving it. So, they think they will get it through some magical means (prayer, law of attraction, etc).

        The reason is it so hard to remove them from these superstitions is that they would be too depressed at their 'failure' in life to be able to live with themselves.

        Unhappily, they cannot accept that it's okay to be at the bottom of the pile. I am. It's very comfortable. smile

    2. the pink umbrella profile image72
      the pink umbrellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      well said. We burned witches, tortured sorcerers, and it was al because of fear. Once again the world is becoming a frightening place to be. Once again, fear is takeing root. Once again, we all look for a mericle.

  3. Hokey profile image60
    Hokeyposted 5 years ago

    The majority of people in the world today assume or believe that Jesus Christ was at the very least a real person. Perhaps he wasn't really "the Messiah", perhaps he was not "The Son of God", and perhaps he didn't actually perform miracles and rise from the dead, but he really was a great moral teacher who traveled around Galilee with followers and got arrested by the Jews and crucified by the Romans right? Not likely. In fact, a close examination of the evidence shows that the best explanation for the story of "Jesus Christ" is what we call "mythology". Like many other religious figures, "Jesus Christ" began as a theological concept, was later used as a character in allegorical stories, and was then historicized as someone whom people believed really existed. The belief in a literal "human" Jesus most likely emerged as eucharist rituals and theology developed around the concept of the "flesh" and "blood" of Christ and these concepts merged with allegorical narratives about the figure.

    There are many important facts that support this conclusion.

    The Gospel of Mark was the first story of Jesus that was written, and all others are dependent on it
    The Gospel of Mark shows clear signs of being written as an allegorical fiction
    Virtually every detail of the life of Jesus comes from "Old Testament" scriptures
    Some of the details of the life of Jesus are based on mistranslations of the Hebrew scriptures
    Jesus' crucifixion on Passover defies historical believability, yet makes perfect sense metaphorically
    The Gospels make many claims that are contradicted by the historical record
    The earliest writings about Jesus, from Paul and others, contain no details of his life
    Many statements in the letters of Paul only make sense if Paul does not view Jesus Christ as a historical person
    There is not one single writing from or about Jesus during his supposed lifetime
    Philo, a prolific Jewish writer who lived from 20 BCE to 50 CE, wrote extensively about the political and theological movements throughout the Mediterranean, and his views foreshadowed Christian theology, yet he never once wrote anything about Jesus. Not only this, but he actually wrote about political conflicts between the Jews and Pontius Pilate in Judea
    All of the non-Christian references to Jesus can be shown to have either been introduced later by Christian scribes or were originally based on Christian claims
    There is no evidence of any knowledge of a tomb of Jesus (empty or occupied) prior to the Gospel stories
    There were many conflicting beliefs about who Jesus Christ was in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd centuries, including beliefs that he had never existed on earth "in the flesh"
    The Catholics made purely theological arguments as to why Jesus Christ had to have existed "in the flesh"

    None of these points are meant to stand on their own, but collectively they provide a very strong argument against the story of Jesus Christ being based on a real person.

    It is important to note that we have one, and only one, source of information about the life of Jesus and that is the Christian Gospels. The Gospels are the sole source of information about this figure; everything that we "know" about "him" depends on these sources.

    1. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Tell that to a Christian who has been brainwashed to believe it's all true and historically confirmed...

      1. Hokey profile image60
        Hokeyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I would rather pound my head against a brick wall. Hurts less! lol

        1. 0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          smile

        2. 0
          Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          all my family still believe - they're not happy that I don't and have written hubs about my deconversion etc.  But can't reason them out of something they didn't reason themselves into (I certainly wasn't reasoned into it - I was indoctrinated as child).

        3. yolanda yvette profile image60
          yolanda yvetteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No, it's not that you'd rather pound your head against a brick wall, the truth is you have no evidence to back your claims.

          No one can prove that Jesus never existed.  If you can, I'd like to see you do it.

      2. Sundaymoments profile image85
        Sundaymomentsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sophia Angelique

        I used to believe as those so called Christians and finally I learned that these so called Christian believe these myths because it is easier for them to hide behind the myth than accept accountability for there actions.

        I.e...”God has forgiven me so I am freed of the sin" Or so and so hurt me so they will answer to God and his wrath will be great and harsh" all this is just a way for those so called Christians to hide sad

        1. 0
          Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          it's easier to blame some external force - sin, devil, satan etc or say god is in control

          either way, no personal responsibility

          1. Phil The Gain profile image71
            Phil The Gainposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            There are plenty of people who believe in God and have ridiculous amounts of personal responsibility.

        2. towsen profile image60
          towsenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Show or  give  me  documented  proof  or   evidence  that  jesus  is  a  myth  so  i  can  look  it  up.

          1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
            ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            myth is not a falsehood. it is a symbolic story.

            1. towsen profile image60
              towsenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thank  you  for  your  comment.  The  question  I  have  is  if   the  word  myth  is not  a  falsehood   is  it  truth  or  false.   From  what  I  understand   some  post   say  Jesus  is  a   myth.   Now   you  said  a   myth  is  a  symbolic  story .   A  symbolic  story  of  what  please   give  me  a  clear  answer.     a  myth  by  your  definition  is  not  falsehood  so  if  its  not  false  its  true.  Is  Jesus  a  myth (  not  a  falsehood)

              Thankyou

              1. Jerami profile image79
                Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                A truth can easily be hidden.  All that YA gotta do is to fabricate SO, So, so many fabrications that anyone looking for truth gets tire of searching before they find THE right one.

              2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this
            2. towsen profile image60
              towsenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              One  more  question  you  said  But  myth does  not  mean  lies,  it  has  come  to   mean  that .   That  what ?    And  you  said   But  it   does not  mean  that.     If  it  does  not  mean  that   what  does  that  mean  ?  clear   understanding  please.

              Thanks

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                the cultural usage in the 20th century is, if it's a myth, it's not true. it's not literal, but it's true. It's true in a symbolic sense.

                1. towsen profile image60
                  towsenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks
                  Can  you  give  me  a  example  of  a    myth  that  is  true  in  a   symbolic  sense?

    2. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That is a  very convincing argument.

         But let’s suppose for a moment that the stories  concerning Jesus was true.
         John in the book of Revelations speaks of a religion rising up out of the sea (Chapter 13) that will obscure the truth, while maintaining just enough truth that if it is possible, will fool the most knowledgeable  of believers.

         This "Beast" will pervert the teachings of the OT. 
      I restrict this statement to the OT because the NT did not exist until over two hundred years after John wrote of these things.(prophesy)

         Why is it so difficult to believe that this prophesy has already been fulfilled?
         This belief system that was in place in 1st century Judea, has been fragmented, and reconstructed into how many different denominations?
         The best way to hide a truth is to create so many untruths that to find the truth is as searching for a needle in a haystack.

         The truth does not need to be found. It is within us.
         All we need to do is to take out the trash.
         Disregard that which the world has taught us,  concerning what scripture says;  (this is almost impossible to do, but can be done)  and read it for ourselves, beginning with the prophesy.
         Firmly establish this as our foundation.
         And THEN add to this,  the testimonies of the disciples, and reframe from editing our previously established understandings.

         We can not change the meanings of prophesy if they are from God!   
      But we can change our understanding of mankind’s  testimony.

  4. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    One thing that the theory of evolution does not into account.

       There have been many discoveries of man made structures and even cities hundreds of feet below the surface of the sea;
    And it wasn't monkeys that built them.
      That suggests that advanced civilizations have exes ted long before this one.
       Something happened in the past and life on earth had to start all over again.

       Could all of those (supposed) myths have originated from those survivors from a past civilization, but by the time that they were capable of writing them down, due to the time that passes, some of the details had been misconstrued to some degree?


       Just thinking out loud again.

    1. Hokey profile image60
      Hokeyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Human made structures below the oceans surface does not mean anything except the oceans levels have risen and due to plate tectonics some areas of land have dropped. There are cities in Greece and other places that are now underwater.

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If these were due to the shifting of plate tectonics, ?
        Why are they scattered through out the bottom of the mediterranean sea?  This still would have taken 100s of thousands of years.
          I take this as further indication of there having been other advanced civilizations on earth before this one.
          At the very least, this adds a curve unaccounted for in the theory of evolution.
                   That is all I'm saying.
          Just imagine IF  some catastrophic event happened today that wipes out; lets say 99 to 95%% of the earths population.
          Lets say, ?   the earth shifts on its axis.
         
          And only 1% to 5% of the population survives the initial event.  Out of these only the most physically fit and most ruthless will adapt. 
           Continuation of the intellectual aspects of mankind will be last on the list of MUST DOs. 
           In just a 1000 years or so,

                     WE become a MYTH.   ?????

        1. Hokey profile image60
          Hokeyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That is very interesting. I decided to do some more research and check these out!

          http://www.spiritofmaat.com/announce/oldcity.htm

          http://weburbanist.com/2007/09/12/under … the-world/

          1. Jerami profile image79
            Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I missed this..  I probably do this more often than I realize.  Not seeing or commenting on comments made back at me. 

               So So sorry.

              That information is very interesting. I would speculate that some of these ruins are much older than they suspect.
               I go along with the "Myths" of the Hopi Indians being absolutely true as to there having been (I think) five previous advanced civilizations having been wiped off the face of the earth.  Not completely erased as these photos show.
               And what little information we have of their existences have all been classified as MYths and folklore.

                Many things that are thought to be FALSE might be true but should in fact just be reconstructed.(rethunked)


              Again so sorry for missing comments that are made back at me that I miss ...  to everyone that I have done that to.

            1. Rishy Rich profile image78
              Rishy Richposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              @ Jeremy

              If there were advanced civilizations like us before, dont you think we might have noticed their satellites in the Space & footprints on the moon or mars? Dont tell me you think they wiped out all those evidence from space right before their natural destruction from earth.

              Rather noticing  some vague soil structures or stone structures under sea, dont you think we might have noticed metallic building or other structures which would confirm their extinction?

              The lack of mark on space is a great tool to ensure that no other civilization reached our level of advancement before. The rest are exaggeration of actual findings.

              1. Jerami profile image79
                Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You missed the most obvious one of all !!!

                  If I think that advanced civilizations have been here before; Why was there any oil left here on earth for us to pump out of the ground?  This is as logical as the things that you mentioned above.
                   

                   What makes anyone think that they would HAVE to develop along the same lines technologically?
                     We, if we last another 50 years we will have to develop another energy source.  what makes you think that they didn't start out using this NEW energy sourse in the first place,

                   Do you think that scientific technology had but one trail to go down? 
                   
                   
                    As a planet we have chosen our path
                     
                     

                Why do you think that they would have advanced upon the same lines as we did.

                1. Rishy Rich profile image78
                  Rishy Richposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I did not mention oil because I was aware that they might have used different energy source. I mentioned space & satellite, because it is obvious that an advanced race would have gone UP there to search & explore the universe in search for knowledge. I guess u didnt get my point.

                  It actually does not matter what energy source or scientific method they had  used. The bottom line of my post was that an advanced civilization should have left some remarkable mark for us. If they were really smart, they would have explored moon & other parts of space. They would have built metallic structures rather than stone buildings.

                  Extraordinary claims requires Extraordinary Evidence!...Just give us Ordinary Evidence to begin with, if you have any in your pocket!

          2. the pink umbrella profile image72
            the pink umbrellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            My boyfriend would tell you that sliens built those underwater cities. lol.

        2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If I might offer a different thought to the Cities under the Med...Mount Vesuvius. This Volcano has been erupting on and off for quite some time...it had a major eruption in 79AD that wipe out a good portion of the surrounding area...Just a thought..

          1. Jerami profile image79
            Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That is true.  There are probably many reasons for these ancient cities to exist hundreds of feet and even miles under the sea level.  So far these have only verified up to about 3000 feet as far as I know, but many more structures have been discovered all over the Mediterranean suspected to be man made.

               The point I was making is that advanced civilizations have been discovered that existed long before what historians previously thought.  Scientists have to rethink much of what they thought that they KNEW as facts.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Very True...That is the interesting thing about science...it is willing to change it's stand on something when evidence is presented that conflicts or verifies its findings...the same can't be said about other things...

              1. Jerami profile image79
                Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I do give credit to science in every regard.
                When we recognize it for what it is.
                There is just so much information that any single scientist can not process  the relativity  of these different sciences.
                    But at least they are trying.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  So very true...Scientists are always attempting to answer the questions that so many people still have today...including if Jesus was in fact a real person or just the effigy of a newly form religion

                  1. Jerami profile image79
                    Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    IF civilization were to survive another 100 years; at the rate we are advancing in technology and knowledge of the universe, I think very little of what we believe as absolute truth will remain.

                      As individuals go so goes society. 
                     
                      I have noticed that about every five years, I review how stupid I was five years ago. 
                      And ask myself, "How could I have thought that or done that. I tell myself, " NOW I know the truth" , BUT  now I have come to dread finding out, in another five years, how wrong I used to be. 

                      I think that society as a whole does the same thing.

    2. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is nothing fantastic about those cities underneath the sea. Their architecture is in line with the architecture of man.

  5. 60
    foreignpressposted 5 years ago

    Keep in mind that Christianity is supernatural. Immaculate conception, Jesus performing miracles, God creating heaven and Earth, the Red Sea parting, a talking burning bush. And, the coup de grace, Armageddon. The list of other-worldly happenings in Christian teachings is endless. Christians who believe in everlasting life through Jesus do so through blind faith. There is no proof of God or biblical lore and may never be while we're alive. Archaeologists have uncovered some documentation, however. The supernatural realm is beyond anything we have experienced on Earth. Take it for what it is . . . or not.

    1. 0
      china manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Take it for what it is by all means - but don't slip in the untrue statement that "archaeologists have uncovered some documentation" this is a typical tactic of the misinformation surrounding the whole business

      1. 61
        DianaETXposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Archeologist have found the sites of ancient cities based on the writings of the Bible.  You can look that up if your interested.

        In the Bible God told the people during the Exodus period to be circumcised on the 8th day.  Why?  Because Vitamin K production necessary for clotting doesn't develop until after seven days.

        He told them how to quarantine themselves to prevent spreading infection.  He gave them rules to live by and the government we use today in our country, the USA.

        He told them a Messiah would come and when to expect Him.

        Jesus came right on time based on the prophecy in Daniel.

        When Jesus arose from the dead He was seen by 500 witnesses.  The gospels make note of this.

        Saying Jesus didn't live because the writings of the events after His death doesn't disprove His life.

        People are still writing about the events of WWII and that was 70 years ago.  Does that mean it didn't happen?  No.  Complilations of data from a given time are being studied and correlations are being made based on that information.

        The Apostles didn't get together to write their histories.  They wrote them at separate times and others who knew them copied them and compiled this information to pass on to other.

        The ability to write and record information during this period was not the same as today.  There was no printing press.  Everything was hand copied by scribes.  These were important people because they could write. 

        The fact that the Apostles were able to write and record the information of their knowledge of Jesus is remarkable.  They met Jesus when He began His earthly ministry.  They would only know facts related to them by Jesus, Mary or James His brother through Mary.

        In Jewish tradition a man could not be a priest until he reaches 30.  This was to give him time to reach maturity and wisdom in their faith.  Jesus came as the High Priest of Earth when He reached the right age to begin teaching the good news called the Gospel.  He came to seek and to save that which was lost.  Earth and man's dominion were lost to satan in the garden of Eden.  Jesus came as the kinsman Redeemer to take back our inheritance.  (Read Ruth for this explanation.)

        Jesus came to tell about God The Father and to give us Eternal Life.  Eternal Life was what we lost in the Garden of Eden.  To do this He became the substitutionary repository for our sin, He took our sin, bore it in His body and died by His choice on the cross.  When He died and was buried in the cave, our sins were buried with Him.  He made restitution for our sins.

        All we have to do to have Eternal Life is to believe He did this for us, repent and confess our sins, agree that we are sinners and that there is nothing we could do, no works we could do to save ourselves other than to trust in His work on the cross and confess Him as Savior and Lord.

        He made it so simple a child could do this.  Being a follower of Jesus is not easy.  He gave us two commandments.  To love God with all your mind, body, and spirit and to love your neighbor as yourself.

        Once you decide you are going to follow Jesus and make a commitment you will be under attack from evil.  You are safe as long as they have you in their thrall, but when you leave you are going to be bombarded by temptation.

        I believe what I have written. 

        You believe what you have written.

        So, who is right?

        Only time will tell and maybe your eternal destination.

        1. 0
          china manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Of course your bible is based on real places - so is Sherlock Holmes adventures, 007 and even coyote chases his chicken or whatever around the simulation of the real desert and canyons.

          There is no corroborative evidence of the handiwork of any god - no corroborative evidence of your jesus.  So that makes it a myth based on superstition and tales.  It could of course still be true, but then maybe an 007 is really running around the place.

          The argument is about evidence for jesus, and the riducilous fabrication of creationism - claiming any kind of scientific 'evidence' for any event of the bible old or new testaments is a lie - there is none for any of the stories - except some of the background places.  Nobody wrote any of your biblical stuff that Paul invented based on his unsucessful attempts at association with Peter and the rest - long after the events.

          1. 61
            DianaETXposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You can no more prove my statements as fabrication than I yours. 

            You see how fruitless your arguements are.

            Any claim for creation based on the Bible is as valid as any by Evolution.  There were no eye witnesses to either event.  So it just comes down to faith in what you 'want' to believe.

            I choose the Bibles story over billions of years of rocks finally evolving into a human.

            You have no evidence Jesus did not exist.

            I gave my view just as you gave yours.

            You can say your piece, I said mine and never shall the two sides meet.

            1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Agreed.

            2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Diana, It's odd how those who doesn't believe in the bible can overlook true information. If they would only look it up, they would see that Archeologists have found the sites of ancient cities based on the writings of the bible.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That's similar to saying "Atlanta exists because it is mentioned in Gone With The Windlol

        2. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well, that's the problem, you see. If you don't put up evidence to substantiate your claim and just tell everyone to go do your homework for you, then the claim is empty and without credibility.

          What's interesting though, is that when we actually do the homework, we find folks like Albright did in fact make attempts at aligning archeological finds to biblical scriptures only to have his ideals refuted simply because archeological finds did not support biblical scriptures.

          http://www.aiar.org/

          http://www.hds.harvard.edu/library/bms/bms00492.html

          Many have tried and many are still trying, Christian or Muslim or whatever religion has it's own group of apologetics who propagate oodles of religious conclusions to scientific finds. Some cults even go so far as to open creationism museums showing dinosaurs and men frolicking together.




          Yes, I'm sure you do believe what you wrote, and you're quite free to do so. However, your belief is exactly just that, a belief:

          "All we have to do to have Eternal Life is to believe He did this for us..."

          We can easily see who might be right or who might be wrong by casting some doubt on what it is you believe is right, for example:

          "Jesus arose from the dead"

          In other words, you believe people can rise from the dead? That a man could have withstood death from torturous beatings, being nailed to a cross and stuck with a spear, to be left alone for a few days only to stand up and walk away. This is what you think is right?

          smile

          1. 61
            DianaETXposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus arose from the dead, that's right.

            If he were just a man, he could not do so.  But Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us.  He came to be a servant on His first visit to teach of the Kingdom which will come.

            He is coming again in the air to call His bride the believers to be with Him before the Tribulation.

            The next time He comes to planet Earth, He will come to rule and reign. 

            He is not a man, but God who came to live with man for a short period of time.

            He is the Creator.  He created all we see.  How can the finite understand the infinite.

            When Jesus died on the cross His last words were 'It is finished'.  He completed the work God The Father sent Him to do.   He was the blood sacrific to atone for the sins of the world.  He only had to die once and shed His blood to cover the sins of those who would believe in Him, to them He gives everlasting life.

            http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/20 … richo.aspx

            God is all powerful, omniscient, and omnipresent.  He is not human, He is supernatural beyond anything we can imagine.  He created us and can do with us as He pleases. 

            This is what I think and believe.

            We all have belief systems. 

            You would not go out in your car everyday if you believed each time you drove you'd have an accident.  At least let me say that I would not.

            I believe when I go out driving in my vehicle, I will return safe and sound to my home.   

            You've told me what you don't believe.

            So, what exactly do you believe?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Good grief!

              You seem to be saying that because I check my brakes regularly and have them serviced when needed and replace the parts that need replacing when they are worn, and they have worked properly for years - the fact that I trust my brakes to work as needed is the same as believing total garbage about men being god and coming back to life?

              Now - realistically - if you cannot see the difference between trusting brakes that have been properly maintained and serviced - and some Invisible Super Being becoming His own son to murder himself to save you - I would make a couple of suggestions.

              a. Be a little more honest with yourself and accept that these two "belief systems," are not the same at all and you are simply defending an untenable belief (I know this is hard for you because being honest is not a Christian value) or

              b. Get some help.

              Good luck.

              1. 61
                DianaETXposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Good Grief!  I am under attack for believing something different from you.

                Know what?  The Bible tells us this will happen.

                I never mentioned brakes, can't you read?

                My belief is mine and I don't find it untenable at all.

                Does it make you feel good to attack people who believe in God because you don't? 

                Good luck in life.  I bet you don't have any friends.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Dear me. sad

                  No - you are not under attack. I was simply pointing out that I trust I will not have an accident because I maintain my car. And this "belief" that I will not have an accident has everything to do with having done the maintenance - and  nothing to do with blind faith.

                  I am not attacking you. I simply suggested that you be more honest with yourself. That is all.

                  If you wish to take that as an attack in order to defend your untenable, irrational beliefs - that is your business. It would be healthier and less likely to cause conflict if you were honest with yourself though. But - I understand why you prefer conflict instead.

                  Yes - the bible is pretty clear on what will happen:

                  1. Go around telling peopel what they should do and cause fights over irrational beliefs.
                  2. People hate it when you do this and will respond.
                  3. This is an attack on your love for Jesus. lol

                  Still - you think my "belief" that I will not have an accident when I drive my car is exactly the same as believing this nonsense about the suicidal god-man?

                  No difference?

                  None?

                  1. 61
                    DianaETXposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Maintenance of a car and having an accident are different. 

                    One does not negate the other.

                2. 0
                  china manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Don't you think this is avery nasty and unchristian like thing to say to anyone.  Just because mark does not believe in your fairy stories is no need to attack him in this way. VERY unchristian - but I am sure your mythical jesus still loves you.

                  1. 61
                    DianaETXposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Blah, Blah, Blah!

                    How would you know anything about being a Christian?

            2. getitrite profile image81
              getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You know a lot about God.



              Yet you seem to know so much about Him that you just spouted the long paragraph above.  This is absurd.



              For an omniscient, all powerful, omnipresent God that we can't even imagine-as you quoted above-you seem to be imagining plenty

            3. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              So, you believe that people can rise from the dead. In other words, you believe in zombies.



              Then, if he wasn't a man, he didn't die and you were fooled into believing he did die.



              That is all just mythical beliefs that have no bearing on reality.



              Yes, in other words, he never died and you were fooled.

               

              Yes, you believe like most other believers, no different. It would appear you were indoctrinated into this belief system.



              No, we do not all have belief systems.



              Trying to compare the condition of your car to the fantasies and myths of your belief system are laughable and have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Your car is real, your gods are imagined.



              Unlike you, I don't embrace the myths and superstitions of the Bronze Age. In other words, I don't have a belief system. Instead, I have an education. smile

            4. towsen profile image60
              towsenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              very  good  post  keep  up  good  work

    2. Rwritings profile image61
      Rwritingsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Is that really true? Do you believe that God doesn't exist because their is no
      evidence or because that is what you wish?  Because wouldn't an existence of a Supreme Being mean that we will be held accountable for our actions by the Diety and thus those who want to live a self-centured heidonistic life baulk at the idea of God?

      This I don't believe in God because Christians have done blah, blah, blah or because there is so much suffering in the world is just a ruse for not being honest with yourself and admitting that you want to create your own rules-you don't want to be responsible to anyone therefore you CHOOSE not to believe.

  6. habee profile image92
    habeeposted 5 years ago

    Remember that for years, some historians doubted that Pilate and Caiaphas were actual historical figures - until archaeological evidence was found.

    1. 0
      china manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Don't think so - they were well recorded figures in Roman documents and their existence has never been disputed as for as I am aware.

      1. habee profile image92
        habeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Do some research. Both figures were, indeed, doubted by many. Josephus and Tacitus mention Pilate, just as they also mention Jesus. But since Pilate and Jesus lived before Tacitus and Josephus, some historians didn't believe the evidence was sound since it was hearsay. Firm proof was not discovered about Pilate until 1961.

  7. timcameron1 profile image60
    timcameron1posted 5 years ago

    There is all kinds of historic written evidence that Jesus existed, just like writtten evidence of Juiius Ceasar existed. People don't dedate that Julis or any other famous figure existed.

    1. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is no historic evidence of Jesus's existence. There is a difference in the caliber of evidence.

      There isn't one bit of historical evidence for the eixtence of Christ. There might only be 8 o 9 for the existence of Ceasar, but it's 8 or 9 more than Christ.

      You need to define evidence.

  8. pylos26 profile image77
    pylos26posted 5 years ago

    uuhhh...Tim...uhh is this evidence a matter of official recorded history or just an assumption. and would you care to direct one in the direction of such evidence?

  9. skyfire profile image73
    skyfireposted 5 years ago

    Jesus as son of god is definitely myth.

    1. habee profile image92
      habeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I thought we were discussing the historical evidence of a man named Jesus - a great teacher and religious leader.

      1. skyfire profile image73
        skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        LOL. Sorry, skipped the discussion completely and posted in response to this.

  10. 68
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    Is not jesus a myth?

    I think you are wrong.

    They deny historicity of Jesus god or son of god, who died on the cross and was resurrect from the dead and ascended to heaven fearing his enemies lest they again put him on the Cross.

    They don't deny and they can never deny historicity of Jesus the man, son of man/woman called Mary, cousin of John son of Zeccariah and Elizabeth.

    1. 0
      jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      paarsurrey "They don't deny and they can never deny historicity of Jesus the man"
      who won't deny?
      may be a blind believer won't but anybody who care to look at the facts, any body who cares to think will deny the historicity of jesus.
      but if you mean stories were written in there names then nobody can deny the historicity of Jesus, nor Zeus, nor asclepius, nor imhotep, osiris, nor krishna, nor ahura mazda ......

  11. dexixy profile image16
    dexixyposted 5 years ago

    The bible scares the hell out of people, that fear makes us believe in Jesus but he might be a myth.

  12. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    That other energy source would certainly have opened up a different spectrum of possibilities, or pathways of research.

      When we further our research into alternate energy resources, what we find will open up other pathways for us to follow.

       All that I am saying is that had we went in a different direction we would not have come to the same place.

       To think that we know the things that we would have learned had we gone down a different path is foolish.

       We just do not know what we do not know.  Ya know?

    1. couturepopcafe profile image60
      couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, but how do you know?  Maybe we would have taken a different path and ended up in the same place.

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That in 99% of all cases that would not happen.
        That would be like saying that if your mother had married a different man, you would have turned out the same and you would have had the same choices to make concerning your life.

          There are a hundred instances in your life that if you had made a different decision, (even small decisions) your life would have come to a totally different conclusion.

           Would you say that 2000 years ago we were already destined to drill oil and turn it into gasoline? That the age of the computer age was unavoidable?  Or the atom bomb?

           I believe that as individuals we have a host of potential futures to choose from, and this is true also on a global scale.

           The end of the story is inevitable, but the details of how we get there and how it ends is up to us.

    2. 68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      Jesus as mentioned in Quran is a reality; Jesus of the Christians is a mythical creation of Paul and the Church, such a person never existed.

      1. 0
        jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus as mentioned in Quran is a reality
        Jesus of the Christians is a mythical
        at least the gospels were written only after a 100 years of jesus period while quran a 600. naturally the authors of quran must know about jesus better!!!!

        1. Pandoras Box profile image81
          Pandoras Boxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You're both wrong. The truth was not discovered until much later, after we had repopulated northeastern america, and Joseph Smith was led to the discovery of the golden plates.

    3. ansonabey profile image65
      ansonabeyposted 5 years ago

      Never

    4. melpor profile image88
      melporposted 5 years ago

      I believe Jesus was an actual person but not as the stories describe him. I believe the events happened in the stories about him are pretty much embellished. They happened but not the way these stories describe them.

      1. Pandoras Box profile image81
        Pandoras Boxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I totally don't understand that. Not to be mean or anything, but it makes no sense to me.

        1. melpor profile image88
          melporposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The evidence is there but they are circumstantial. they are not direct evidence; that is why the stories are embellished.

      2. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If you mean that people were beaten, tortured and publicly crucified for crimes they never committed, sure, why not?

        If you mean that people were beaten, tortured and publicly crucified for crimes they never committed... and then rose from the dead, I would have to agree with you. smile

      3. 68
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Quran does not mention any mythical and embellished stories about Jesus; Quran describes the real person Jesus, a man son of Mary.

        1. 0
          jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          how ever striped down version may be there in quran, it still about a mythical man.

    5. heavenbound5511 profile image82
      heavenbound5511posted 5 years ago

      Question: "Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ?"

      Answer: Typically, when this question is asked, the person asking qualifies the question with “outside of the Bible.” We do not grant this idea that the Bible cannot be considered a source of evidence for the existence of Jesus. The New Testament contains hundreds of references to Jesus Christ. There are those who date the writing of the Gospels to the second century A.D., more than 100 years after Jesus' death. Even if this were the case (which we strongly dispute), in terms of ancient evidences, writings less than 200 years after events took place are considered very reliable evidences. Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus in Israel in the early first century A.D.

      It is also important to recognize that in A.D. 70, the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eyewitnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.

      Considering that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant area in a small corner of the Roman Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:

      The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).

      Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”

      Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).

      Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.

      The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

      Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.

      Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.

      Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.

      In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).

      There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.

      Recommended Resource: The Case for the Real Jesus by Lee Strobel.

      1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well stated! smile

      2. Shay Kochba profile image60
        Shay Kochbaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm sorry, but the reference in the Talmud that you mentioned cannot refer to the Christian Jesus . . . unless the Christian bible contains some serious errors. 

        I think what people forget is the sheer number of people running around for several hundred years claiming to be various types of messianic figures.

        As for Josephus, well . . . I'll leave alone the questions over authenticity and just point out that according to the Christian timeline Jesus was already dead before Josephus was even born.

        I think after 2000 years we should just agree to disagree.   We've all heard each other's arguments, all too often at the point of a sword.

      3. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        There are many critiques and refutations of Strobel's case. Here are a few of the conclusions drawn from those critiques:

           1.  Strobel did not demonstrate the credibility of any Gospel, canonical or not.
           2. Strobel did not demonstrate that scribal changes to the Biblical texts are insignificant.
           3. Strobel did not demonstrate that the Resurrection of Jesus is the best explanation for the evidence.
           4. Strobel did not demonstrate that Christianity is free from significant outside influence.
           5. Strobel did not demonstrate that Jesus fulfilled any prophecies.
           6. Strobel did not demonstrate that the person of Jesus was at all reflective of orthodox Christian beliefs.

        smile

    6. 68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      The account about Jesus as mentioned in Quran was a real person; the Bible courtesy Paul and the Church made Jesus a mythical person.

    7. 68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      3. Strobel did not demonstrate that the Resurrection of Jesus is the best explanation for the evidence.


      Jesus never died on the Cross in the first place; so there is no question of his resurrection from the dead. Yes, he was delivered in a near-dead position from the Cross; treated for his injuries by his friends and he migrated from Judea.

      1. libby101a profile image61
        libby101aposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sure Paar, people were let down from the cross! The soldiers themself would have been killed had they allowed anyone to survive! Your argument on this issue is a farce!

      2. Ms Dee profile image87
        Ms Deeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with libby. Also, have you considered evidence like in http://hubpages.com/hub/Carbon-14-Datin … d-of-Turin ?

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I laughed out loud when I saw the Turin shroud. And the fact that it has been replicated? Well - liars for jesus will deny truth - of course.

          1. Ms Dee profile image87
            Ms Deeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Replicated?  Where? When? I've not read of that.

        2. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It is against the HP rules to post a link to your own work, Dee.  Unless it is on the Extreme Hub Makeover thread, of course. smile

          1. Ms Dee profile image87
            Ms Deeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, thanks for letting me know, Randy!  I'll go refresh my memory on the rules. I am beginning to forget some of them.  Thanks!

    8. 60
      Composer2005posted 5 years ago

      Josephus was not a contemporary historian. He was born in the year 37 C.E., several years after Jesus' alleged death. There is no way he could have known about Jesus from his own personal experience. At best, he could have recorded the activities of the new cult of Christianity, and what they said about their crucified leader. So, even if Josephus wrote about Jesus, it is not a credible source. (Source: http://freethought.mbdojo.com/josephus.html)

      http://s1.postimage.org/hoa43ays/velvet.gif

      1. 0
        jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        writers after first century have heard from christians and just quoted from him. the question is why no CONTEMPORARY historians heard of christ?

      2. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Some people say that the Holocaust is a myth.
        I wasn't alive when it happened.
        I was born a few years later.
        My dad told me some things about it.

        When  I tell my grand children things that my dad told me about it.  That story should carry just a little weight.

        True, not as much as my dad telling it himself, but if I tell it exactly as he told it?  That should mean something.

    9. 60
      Composer2005posted 5 years ago

      'The Jesus of the Gospels is an artificial creation, a collective work of art who evolved through the combined consciousness of two generations of Christian worship.'

      – A. N. Wilson (Paul, p144)



      ''Whether Jesus ever actually existed has long been debated. The argument (very well documented) is that there is absolutely no corroborating evidence of his existence in documents other than highly suspect Christian sources.'

      – Riane Eisler (The Chalice & the Blade, p122)

      (Source: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm)

    10. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago

      Composer2005  wrote ...
         So, even if Josephus wrote about Jesus, it is not a credible source.

      - - - - - - - -

        This seems to always be the case. 
        When either side of this debate presents any evidence; the other side says ... "that is not a credible source."

                           "that is not a credible source. "
                           "that is not a credible source. "
                           "that is not a credible source. "
      I think that if we were to gather one person from each group, for intelligent conversation (Not debate) who were not dogmatically convinced  that they had the one and only correct answer, "The truth"  might be found.

         Atheists profess many 1/2 truths.
         Spiritualists profess a different 1/2 truth.
         Religionists also profess 1/2 truths
         
         No one has all the answers.
      If a computer program were created that can compile all of these 1/2 truths that are not totally contradictory into one concept, We would be a lot closer to THE truth.

         As it is, we look at the evidence that we accept, and overstate the certainty of our conclusions.

        Kinda like; You put chocolate on my peanut butter !
                            NO ! NO !  NO !
                     You put peanut butter on my chocolate !

         The debate goes on, and no one wins  !

    11. SpanStar profile image60
      SpanStarposted 5 years ago

      If one does not accept Jesus as the son of God.
      If one does not accept the miraculous feats that he demonstrated

      Then he still has to be considered an extraordinary human being
      since in the history of human beings he is the only person
      that died blameless of all crimes/sins. Not even his staunchest enemies could accuse him of doing any wrong.
      So he was put to death over a trumped up charge of blasphemy
      meaning they could not prove that he was not the son of God.

      1. 0
        jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        if he ever lived!!!
        again whipping somebody in a synagogue may not be wrong doing!!??

    12. guy1973 profile image61
      guy1973posted 5 years ago

      jesus is not a myth, he is a real person, u will be surprise to find out that the events of the new testament really took place and can be found in manuscript attestation recorded by historians, real people who lived during that time. and they mention that this character Jesus of Nazareth lives and walk this earth.such records can be found in the work of
      Herodotus- written in 488-428 BC
      Thucydides- c, 460-400 BC
      Tacitus- AD 100
      Livy's roman history 59 BC- AD 17
      There are over 5,000 Greek manuscripts and 10,000 in Latin.
      check it out

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Livy did not mention jesus, and none of the others are contemporary. There are no contemporary manuscripts. None. You have swallowed misinformation from liars for jesus. Check it out dude. Please at least do some research before swallowing this nonsense.


        Dear me. sad

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Mark, He has done his research.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            LOLOLO

            No - he has not.

            Dear me. sad

        2. Ms Dee profile image87
          Ms Deeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Tell us, Mark, what research you've done. Or, my apologies if you've written it else where. If so, please point me to it for I'd like to look. smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I have not published the research. Why would I? There is nothing positive to report. No contemporary evidence. None.

      2. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I don't believe it ... I know it.

      3. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Did you even look at those dates? How can there be accounts of Jesus written by Herodotus hundreds of years before the alleged Jesus was even supposed to exist?

    13. 0
      Muldanianposted 5 years ago

      I think there is little doubt that Jesus existed.  He was a real human being.  Some of the stories about him may be myth, as there are contradictions in the New Testament, such as those surrounding the story of his birth.  Also the beliefs that Christians have about Jesus were developments made over the centuries, and often have little basis in biblical accounts.

    14. ladyjojo profile image61
      ladyjojoposted 5 years ago

      Jesus is no MYTH..... just make sure your are record so historically we can trace you back after your death....

      All who believes Jesus Christ is a Myth they are the myth and i feel pityful for you. You gave over your ears to gabbage and people who usually comes up with those philosophies knows much better. But they are just looking for some sought of recognition by fools who may follow on.

      That's my view smile

      1. the pink umbrella profile image72
        the pink umbrellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        There are many here who would feel pity for you, being that it seems as though you are a firm believer in Jesus Christ. I dont believe condecention need be fit into the conversation dear. You call critical and analyticle thought garbage, but all i hear you saying is that he existed and your reason believeing that being "because he did." Id keep a civil tongue if i were someone who had zero evidance besides the invisible. Thats just my opinion.

    15. Phil The Gain profile image71
      Phil The Gainposted 5 years ago

      So called scientific facts have been proven wrong many of times so the argument about scientific facts are indeed questionable.   At least a lot of them are. 

      All I know is that this world seems to be changing for the worse.  So what is in store for us all?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Many of times huh? LOL

      2. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Such as what, for example?

    16. 0
      Muldanianposted 5 years ago

      I find it really quite disturbing whenever I read the angry comments of some Christians, who are so dogmatic in their certainty that they are right, and that all who have views which differ, even slightly to their own, shall have the fires of hell waiting for them as punishment.  As an atheist, I don't feel the need to prove to others that my point of view is correct, and I think we can learn from each other, believer and non-believer alike.  Some Christians frighten me.  I wish they could be more like Christ.

      1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        There are no comments from angry christians when someone share a different view. From what I have observed, it's mainly some of the atheists who dislike christians and mock the believer's faith. Not trying to scare you, but the bible speaks about hell. Would you desire for someone to tell you if your house is on fire? Of course you would. If you don't believe hell exist, then you have no reason to be afraid. It depends on what you mean by learning from each other. Atheists will never convince me that there is no God. We all have a choice to believe what we want.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Other religions speak about hell, too. But, Christians ignore those other religions threats.



          Would you desire for someone to tell you there are other gods and other religions that claim you will be judged by their gods and perhaps may wind up in their hell?



          We know you wouldn't.



          Will anyone be able to ever convince you other gods exist or is that a choice you will make to ignore them? smile

          1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
            Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Beelzedad, There is only one living, and true God.  (Jeremiah10:10) But the Lord is the true God, he is the living God, an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

            1. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, I know you're denying/ignoring that other religions and gods are supposed to exist, just as much if not more than your "one living and true god" is supposed to exist. Other Christians here are in the same boat of denial. Hilarious!  lol

          2. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I think the name God first revealed himself to Moses as says it all. I Am. Pretty much says what He thinks of other claims.

            1. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              LOL! So, one mythical being revealed himself to another mythical being thus confirming both their existences. lol

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Man you're not playing fair. I don't have access to emoticons on my Droid., but I'm laughing back at you.

            2. Randy Godwin profile image95
              Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              But he didn't say "They Ain't"  did he?  smile  Or are you merely assuming?

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I believe that was implied. But that's just my belief. Somehow,i fear you have a different take on it. I am pretty sure the Stooge gods weren't on His list of imposters to worry about at the time though.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  They are his uncles.  He's still learning to get along with his creations without having to destroy them on occasion.  But he knows better than to mess with a Stoogist.  Actually, Noah and his family were Stoogists too, but the Christians always claim them as their own.  But you really can't blame them, can you?  lol

                  Woop, woop, woop!-

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes. I believe He still has to say One Mississippi, Two Mississippi every time your name comes up.  You're still around though, so any anger issues are obviously Old Testament.

                    1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Yep!  The New Testament part II makes belief in evolution okay.  They figured evolution would be accepted by everyone by now but they didn't take in consideration the stubbornness of the fundies.  smile

                      I tried to tell 'em!

        2. 0
          Muldanianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
              For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
              All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
          Who knoweth  the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
              Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?  (Ecclesiastes 3:18,22)

          Seems to be saying that death is the end to me.

          1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
            Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Muldanian, I am not trying to anger you. I am only providing the biblical facts in the bible. ( John3:36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Another scripture is John3:16. Death does not have to be the end for you or no one. Matthew 24:29-31 explains the second coming of Jesus. All those who died in faith in Christ shall rise from the dead and they will have eternal life.

    17. bsscorpio8 profile image60
      bsscorpio8posted 5 years ago

      Honestly, do you really care? Does it (the reality or myth of Jesus) work for you? You are going to twist your brain into a million knots arguing faith to the faithful!!!

      1. Randy Godwin profile image95
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Brain knot twisting builds character! smile

        1. bsscorpio8 profile image60
          bsscorpio8posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sure it does, though to question faith to the faithful is, ludicrisp!!! You will fry your brain to a crisp! LOL!!!

    18. 60
      Composer2005posted 5 years ago

      Bottom-Line remains that not a single self acclaimed christian has provided a shred of legitimate evidence for their story book jesus.

      1. Troy C. profile image60
        Troy C.posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Define legitimate evidence, is it the written words of witnesses, a picture,an artifact, written records of genealogy, a fossil. Tell me what it is for you, and we can go from there. I'm here to help.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What ya got other than the novel? smile

        2. Troy C. profile image60
          Troy C.posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The faithfull are at peace with their convictions while the nonbeliever has none and that is why they hang around Christian forums trying to find what is hidden from them. All of us will try to help you because you are here and because you are here that tells me you are serching. If you were at peace and content in your nonbelievers world, you would ignore us and stay among others such as yourselves. Yet you are here listening to the voice of God as spoken by his people.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image95
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            If you are satisfied why are YOU hanging around these forums?  Let me guess!  To share your great satisfaction, right!  lol

        3. 60
          Composer2005posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Troy C.posted 4 hours ago in reply to this
          Define legitimate evidence, is it the written words of witnesses, a picture,an artifact, written records of genealogy, a fossil. Tell me what it is for you, and we can go from there. I'm here to help.


          Composer responds:


          There are at least two ways you self acclaimed story book jesus believers can attempt to support your cause.

          Let's start with -

          1. Present every scrap of what you think legitimately supports your cause and we'll examine it and we can go from there. I'm here to help.

          http://s1.postimage.org/hoa43ays/velvet.gif

        4. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Troy, we know all you have is the bible as the source of your beliefs. Unless there is something more you can offer, then you really can't help, can you? smile

          1. Jerami profile image79
            Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Have you ever known something to be true and then open a book and read someone confirming that which you already knew.

               That happens to a lot of people all of the time. all the time.

            1. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              So, what you're saying, Jerami, is that you knew everything there was to know about Jesus long before ever hearing about him and then after reading the bible, lo and behold, it was all written down there confirming everything you already knew? smile

              1. Jerami profile image79
                Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Do you know how to read? 
                It doesn't appear so!
                If you think that I said what you say that I said? 
                You have a very serious learning impediment.

                  OR were you just adulterating what I said so you can argue with it?

                Why don’t you attempt to read my comment again? 
                See if you can understand it as written.
                I’ll give you a clue.  I said   exactly   what I meant to say, No more and no less than what I intended to say..   

                I attempt to do that quite frequently.

                If you still do not understand what I said?  I don't know what to tell Ya.

                1. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Or, you have an egregious communication problem. smile

                  1. Jerami profile image79
                    Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Please explaine.  How else can anyone get out of a statement; something as exagerated as what you asumed I to have said.

    19. SpanStar profile image60
      SpanStarposted 5 years ago

      Not believing in Jesus is not new.  Few one believed in Jesus before he arrived, few one believed in Jesus while he was here and no one was at his tumb when he arose on third day so no one believed in him then.

      Same thing....just a different day.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image95
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I don't see how anyone can possibly argue with whatever it was you said!  lol

    20. ahmar2 profile image60
      ahmar2posted 5 years ago

      Nice discussion. Jesus lived and there are historical evidences  to support that. However big question is was he really son of God and answer is no..

      1. 60
        Composer2005posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Composer responds: Present every scrap of what you think legitimately supports your cause and we'll examine it and we can go from there. I'm here to help.

        http://s1.postimage.org/hoa43ays/velvet.gif

        1. ahmar2 profile image60
          ahmar2posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I will keep eye on this topic.

          1. 60
            Composer2005posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            ahmar2 wrote: . . . . Jesus lived and there are historical evidences  to support that.

            Composer responded: Present every scrap of what you think legitimately supports your cause and we'll examine it and we can go from there. I'm here to help.

            You made a bold and unjustified claim, now please provide your alleged supportive evidence for that bold and unjustified claim instead of cowering in your current pit of delusion hoping others might bail you out?

            http://s1.postimage.org/hoa43ays/velvet.gif

      2. Randy Godwin profile image95
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Care to state the "historical evidences" you claim exists? smile

        1. Troy C. profile image60
          Troy C.posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The Koran or Qur'an The sacred text of  Islam, divided into 114 chapters, or suras: revered as the word of God, dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel, and accepted as the fundation of Islamic law, religion, culture, and politics.

          Now the Koran, the  "Bible" of another religion says that Jesus excisted and was a prophet. I have heard that he is the most quoted Prophet in the Koran. I have not not read this  so if I was misinformed I'm sure you will let me know. Jesus is real.

          Another interesting fact is that Gabriel dictated this to Muhammed.
          Also,how can anyone say that Jesus was not the son of God, you talk as if you were there. If you have no proof to the contrary you are just giving personal opinion of which everybody has one. Faith is the key ingredient to  belief. Like i stated in another thread you will believe almost anything man tells you, with no proof, but you wont believe God with the proof he has  presented to you The Bible says that "without faith it is impossible to please God" You had better start praying for faith..

          1. libby101a profile image61
            libby101aposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            And another interesting fact is he foamed at the mouth, literally, after each visit from this so called angel! You have to remember, Jesus had already came and gone by the time Muhammad came into the picture! People had heard of Jesus... he wanted to start a new religion! He wanted all religions to come together to his one and him be over them all! When the Jews and Christians wouldn't listen to him and called him a false prophet... he changed his "nice peaceful" talk of them in his Qu'ran and started saying to lay in wait and kill them..both jews and Christians!  Then because he changed that he also said that if a later verse contradicts an earlier verse then use the later verse.... lol.. yes I believe all that crap!

            1. Fenixfan profile image89
              Fenixfanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              It's amazing how no one will vote for a president who contradicts himself, but they jump on the bandwagon quickly if it is the determiner of their salvation? How does that work?

              1. libby101a profile image61
                libby101aposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It's called the blind leading the blind!!!

                1. Fenixfan profile image89
                  Fenixfanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I do want to add that faith is a great thing. It's wonderful to have faith in many things as Troy stated up there, but without works it is void. I was debating with a man today about the subject and he says, "If an apple tree does not produce apples, does that mean it's not an apple tree? No it just has a problem." My response was, "True, but I also remember a passage about a fig tree that beared no fruit and the Lord cursed it and it died." My point being that you can hope for a tomato plant to grow big tomatoes, but if you don't get out there and water and fertilize it, you chances of having bigger tomatoes are less. Is this not correct?

                  1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                    Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Fenixfan, Yes, that's correct.

          2. Randy Godwin profile image95
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            As asked previously, care to state the "historical evidences" you claim exist?  One ancient novel backing another proves nothing.  And you do indeed need to read the Koran.  There is one Muslim here who will tell you Jesus didn't die on the cross at all, but was taken down alive and recovered from his ordeal.

            It does make sense, so his bible must be more accurate than the King James version favored by most fundies.  Got anything substantial to offer?  smile

    21. 60
      Composer2005posted 5 years ago

      The botoom-line for all alleged ' holy books ' is that their combined legitimate evidence that they contain the words of a god given to men, remains a constant zero!

      1. Troy C. profile image60
        Troy C.posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Gods peace to all the saints here, may he continue to shower his grace upon you and strengthen you as you go about his work, amen

        Today was a good day. I only worked 11 hours and managed to get a workout in. But most importantly I studied the Bible for over an hour. It was on audio Bible but it was wonderful as I had already studied those scriptures before. Now imagine my surprise when I come here and the first thing I see is that someone commented on one of my hubs, but it was not a comment: it was hate mail and he misquoted something I had written. These people must realize that I dont read their comments, they are wasting their time on me, God is with me. God is protecting me. God is empowering me. I can do nothing on my own. So when I start to read a comment and it is detrimental to my spirit, he will shut my eyes to it, this person took all this time to write me to no avail. Remember the old saying "garbage in, garbage out." Be careful what you read saints.

        Lastly, the definition of the Koran I posted here last night was from the dictionary not me, I found it enlightening to find out where the Koran Originated. I wll have to look more into that.. Even more proof.


                 God bless you all Troy C.

        P.S. I just read something above from Fenixfan and it was so true in James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
        And the way to fertilze your faith is with the word of God so that it may produce works in you.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          How sad for you.  Even though I don't agree with your opinion, I still read your posts.  But then, I don't have an imaginary deity keeping me from doing so, or making me write such self deluded posts in response to others.  Lucky you!  smile

    22. 60
      Composer2005posted 5 years ago

      88Troy C. wrote . . . . . These people must realize that I dont read their comments,

      Oops!

      Your double minded self contradiction -


      88Troy C." also wrote  . . . . So when I start to read a comment . . . .

      a) You DON'T READ COMMENTS

      b) You DO READ COMMENTS

      LOL!

      http://s1.postimage.org/hoa43ays/velvet.gif

      1. Troy C. profile image60
        Troy C.posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Good morning Saints,I hope everyone slept well, I know I did but when I woke this morning God had put a message in my heart.
        The message was not to be angry with the unsaved here, but to pray for them. Even when they mock and persecute Jesus. We must be like Jesus in this manner, because even as he hung on the cross he prayed; Luke 23:34 Father forgive them: for they know not what they do.
        If he can forgive after what he went through so too can we forgive them now.

        Always remember who the real enemy is.

        Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against pricipalities,against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

        Love to you all and I do mean all, Troy C.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It's interesting to note that believers always seem to have enemies of their faith, whether they believe them to be real, like those who don't share their particular faith, or unreal, like the imps and demons that continuously swirl around us in endless battle with their spiritual selves.

          Seems like living in a constant state of paranoia. smile

        2. Randy Godwin profile image95
          Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Good morning fellow Stoogists, I know you all had a restful sleep.  By the grace of Shemp we are so lucky not to be constantly judging other people like the deluded Jesus freaks are compelled to do. 

          It must be horrible to be forced to try and frighten children with threats of being tortured for eternity by a murderous deity.  Be thankful for these folks as they are and excellent example for not letting your children be brainwashed by superstitious, uneducated, narrow minded, people.

          Woop, woop, woop, and may Moe bless you!  lol

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm afraid you're wrong, oh prophet of the slapstick gods. I've seen the old documentaries on your deities. They're treatment of each other is appalling. If they can be so callous to one another, what hope would a believer have. None,i fear. I'll keep my God,thank you very much.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image95
              Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              But at least they do not create and populate a planet and then decide to murder all women, all babies, both born and unborn, and all the men and animals by drowning.  You'd figure an omnipotent being would plan things to work out a mite better.

              Yes, the Stooges take out their frustrations on each other, not on helpless mortals.  But if you like petty, self centered deities, you have made the right choice for you.  smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Wow, that was a mouthful. I think perhaps those who believe have a deeper understanding than that. Maybe not, but if that's how you see it then I can certainly see why you would be angry about it.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL Deeper understanding = denial. lol

                  I can see why you attack anyone who gainsays your beliefs. This is called "cognitive dissonance."

                  A lot of believers - such as yourself - suffer from it and will attack anything that does not agree with their untenable belief system.

                  "just curious" = "has the answers" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't have the answers for you. I have the answers for me. I'm pleased to see that you too know what is right for you. The difference is i wouldn't laugh at your assumptions. I would think that was rude.

                2. Randy Godwin profile image95
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Great!  It will be good for you to explain which sins the unborn babies and children committed.  And the animals too!  I suppose your god couldn't merely make the wicked mortals simply die without going to so much trouble of slaughtering all of the animals too.  But perhaps flooding the entire earth was more entertaining to such a vengeful bored deity.  smile


                  The Stooges abhorred this event, by the way.  The cries of the  drowning babies and innocent animals saddened them greatly.

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It is good to know you believe your gods to be merciful. I can't explain the flood. When you look at it it from the viewpoint of those not on the boat, it does sound horrific. When you look at it from Noah's you see hope that God will always provide a way to save you. I will think on what you said. I do believe that God is happy when those who trust him face contradictions squarely. To come to a better understanding of what they believe. And I know Him to be merciful. Thanks for the food for thought.

                    1. Randy Godwin profile image95
                      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I suppose you see mercy in such a scenario, at least for a few individuals on the ark.  It does seem strange about Noah's in-laws and family being the only people worthy of saving. 

                      The venerable Stooges asked your guy why he didn't just start out creation with Noah's people to begin with.  He got angry, stomped off, and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah just to spite Moe.  Lot's wife always reminded him of his.  smile

    23. 60
      jacob3727posted 5 years ago

      hi

    24. 60
      Composer2005posted 5 years ago

      Troy C.posted 43 hours ago in reply to this
      Good morning Saints,I hope everyone slept well, I know I did but when I woke this morning God had put a message in my heart.

      Composer responds: That's not a good omen according to your story book Troy C. -

      The heart [is] deceitful above all [things, and desperately wicked: . . . . (Jeremiah 17:9) KJV story book

      Better luck next time. LOL!

    25. 60
      Composer2005posted 5 years ago

      88Troy C.posted 43 hours ago in reply to this
      . . . . Always remember who the real enemy is.

      Composer responds: Sadly it's deceivers like you (as I shewed earlier from your own story book) that listens to their deceitful heart -

        The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked . . . . (Jeremiah 17:9) KJV story book

      But we non-story book believers don't fret, because we have the Truth that exposes those like you!

      Another Truth and Fact is that the majority of you self acclaimed story book believers claim the greatest deceiver of all is your alleged naughty Satan / Devil spirit fallen heavenly angel being, when of course straight away your claims are refuted by your own story book IF you ever actually paid attention to what it really states.(Jer. 17:9) LOL!

      Better luck next time!

      1. Troy C. profile image60
        Troy C.posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If Jesus is not real, then why would people go to all this trouble of trying to disprove the fact of his existence. The answer is obvious.
        Yet they will pay for thier transgressions.
        Proverb 12:13 The wicked is snared by the transgression of his lips:
        but the just shall come out of trouble.15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes:but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
        So seek the counsel of the word of God by reading it daily and I promise you that your life will change for the better.

        I just glanced at something as I was leaving and it caught my eye, like I said i no longer read the negatve comments but the ones I have read in the past have let me know what were up against.  The phrase story book jumped out and yes:
        The Bible is a book of true stories
        that tell of God and his son Jesus
        who deserves all the glory.

        1. 0
          china manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Nobody objects to the idea of a jesus - just what people like you do with it, and then what collectively you do all around the world whre you are responsible fo most of hte troubles between nations, peoples and within societies.

        2. 60
          Composer2005posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          By all means come back any time Troy C. and try your luck again, but you will need to bring something sadly lacking for your cause so far, i.e. legitimate evidence for it. LOL!

          Better luck next time if you wish to try again!

          http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/12/43/81/32/velvet10.gif

        3. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Because the followers of the Christian cult have been and continue to destroy mankind's future. smile

    26. lindatymensky profile image80
      lindatymenskyposted 5 years ago

      There is a lot of historical evidence that Jesus lived.  We have all the Biblical accounts and Early Church writings -- a lot of it written by or about people who where subject to a horrible death because of there Christian witness, who died rather than recant their story.  Even today, like then, Death Bed Testimony - testimony given by a person who knows they are dying, is given great weight in modern courtrooms.  We also have Josephus and the Jewish rabbinical record of the time.

      1. Troy C. profile image60
        Troy C.posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you lindatymensky, you are very wise. nuff said.

      2. 0
        jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        you are listening to your pastor so much, but forgot to read your history books.
        there is NO historical evidence of jesus but there are evidence for christians in 1st century though they were never called christians. again they had no uniform beliefs. some called jesus a living man while others claimed he is spirit(including the one who wrote letters of paul). there were also so  many myths and some miracle workers like apolloneyus. the later church combined all these(with the help of Constantine) though they succeeded only for a short time obvious from the fact of the existence of various christian sects with various beliefs.
        if all these jesus believers and other non jesus god believers started to discuss their beliefs, i think, no atheist will get a space to post anything here.


        We also have Josephus and the Jewish rabbinical record of the time.

        josephus was born in AD37 after the supposed death of jesus. about that paragraph by josephus, the less said the better. NO contemporary has ever seen jesus nor any of the natural phenomenon(like the eclipse) written in that barbaric novel called bible.

    27. starme77 profile image86
      starme77posted 5 years ago

      I think Jesus was a guy and did exist - how ever I do not agree with Christians views of him because they are contridicting - the BiBle says Jesus is God's Son - O.K but it also says we are all God's children - Jesus bled and died on the cross and went through hell on earth - But Don't all of "God's" children suffer - just in diffrent ways- this world tends to beat people down just as it did to Jesus - he is not the only one of "God's children" who suffered and died  - so - if this is the case shouldn't we as "God's children" all worship each other and not just him? Just a thought

    28. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago

      Is not jesus a myth, yes. jesus has become a myth but did he exist, there is a lot evidence that Jesus mythology began with a man called by Messianic Jews as Yeshua or Yahshua.

      The mythology of Jesus though is a recurring theme in world mythology.

      Son of god by mortal woman
      becomes hero and savior of mankind.

      It is always appearing in various cultures. We seem to be born with a predisposition to believe this story.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Where is this evidence please? LOL

        What you mean is " lot of people believe."

        Which does not make it real.

        I thought you understood this stuff. sad

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          hi mark, couldn't resist? I would give you evidence but then I know you're going to start talking about aliens again so I'm not going to go down that path to the usual. So lets just go right and talk about it.

          You know, I did see a cigar shaped UFO in my twenties. I was with three friends.  Then on another location, another friend mine saw the same thing on the same night.

          have you seen this?
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGeWBiLV … re=related

          It is intriguing.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Interesting way of avoiding the complete lack of evidence. Well done. Never mentioned aliens - ever. sad

            Just a myth. lol

            1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
              ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol

              you know what I'm talking about and neither are you interested in my evidence. lol

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No - I have never mentioned aliens. But - please go ahead and show your evidence.

                1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                  ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  about aliens? I just did. mark its old. we should have other topics.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Of course. What is the weather like where you are? lol

                    1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                      ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I was just marveling at the way the trees in New York is encased in a glass looking case of ice lining every branch. It is actually beautiful but a lawsuit waiting to happen.

                  2. Beelzedad profile image60
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Never saw any evidence, did you delete it?

                    1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                      ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      you're the evidence and I would delete you if I could lol!

          2. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So what? Saturn's auroral radio emissions similar to the Earth's auroral radio emissions. smile

            1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
              ceciliabeltranposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              really, did not know that

    29. 68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      is not jesus a myth?

      Christian god or son of god called Jesus is sure a myth; never existed or born of Mary.

    30. 68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      is not jesus a myth?

      Jesus as mentioned in Quran was a real person; Son of Man.

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this
    31. Richieb799 profile image62
      Richieb799posted 5 years ago

      Did Yoda from Starwars start this thread 'Was not Jesus a myth' lol

    32. Jonathan Janco profile image81
      Jonathan Jancoposted 5 years ago

      Jesus may or may not have existed. However, it is telling that the ancient Greeks worshipped Hermes, who was born of a virgin, performed miracles and was crucified for (as Douglas Adams puts it) 'telling everyone how great it would be to be nice to people for a change'. Funny how so many of the early Christian converts were also Greek.

     
    working