No, the brain is not needed for the consciousness to exist actually Consciousness preceded any physical thing.
The brain actually divides the consciousness so that we are not able to "see" clearly. Thus our physical existence will be of primary importance to us....but for a While(which is the beginning of the concept of time).
This was the intention from the beginning so that we can know all things.
kess - you are the first I've seen on the forums to express this concept in laymen's terms. The idea that the brain - the mind - actually separates us from liberation. Creative nature - the nature of creation - is not moved into action by any incidental cause, but by the removal of obstacles, by the removal of habitual patterns, the relationship of cause and effect which we allow to cling. One who remains undistracted by the effects of worldly afflictions reaches discriminative discernment. From this there follows freedom from cause and effect. We have the potential to achieve complete disassociation with awareness thus ultimately joining pure consciousness.
Everything that exists has consciousness or rather is consciousness to a greater or lesser degree, depending on its form. Our ability to perceive arises through the use (or lack of use in most cases lol) of the physical brain.
Excellent explanation. "Everything [i]is[i/] consciousness". So perception and 'seeing' are for the sake of the seer. The mind perceives what it reflects which is why what we think about persists, why we become/experience what we think about. Consciousness appears to the mind as intellect, a way to 'see' distinction, to perceive. Yes, I think so.
I would contend that paarsurrey, pisean and Bailebear are all correct. The concept and therefore existence of consciousness (God) in the mind would be misinterpreted as physical brain. However, reasoning, which is a typically human attribute, conflicts with clarity. This argumentative/reasoning position or condition is what separates us from pure consciousness or the higher state of being.
paarsurrey believes the creator is real and lasting, a consciousness which is separated from worldly affliction. This unexplainable phenomenon is what has kept so many over thousands of years attracted to God/consciousness, and rightly so though I believe misinterpreted.
pisean takes a stand for the brain illogically concluding that God/consciousness exists because without reason this consciousness becomes nameless, unrecognizable. The detachment from awareness of cause and effect could, in fact, potentially bring us to a state of total unawareness, unnamed and unrecognizable, but one with the higher consciousness.
Baileybear believes imagination is how we come to identify a higher power, through the brain, not the heart though the two are directly connected both physiologically and emotionally. Difficult to separate in our worldly terms, she may be closest to the mark. We have 'imagined' a God/consciousness because it already exists within us. It is something we remember rather something we have imagined.
In a sense you are correct. Science has found a way to explain imagination. Almost all of existence is perceived through our minds which use the brain as its conduit if you like. God is perceived by the brain then. If the neurons that can perceive more of what is "out there" (but not really out there)are firing we will perceive more of what is out there. So in order to perceive God those particular neurons need to be firing. If they are not God won't exist.
Kess. You hold the Grail. Penny...hi sweetcakes! The ones who don't have a clue? "Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see." Open your eyes, and let your mind free. Peace everybody!
Disagree, and i have particular reason so you will agree also, if God exist in human brain then it will never think negative and wrong for others and he and she will also be happy, so real place of God is far from this world.
well who said god is incapable of negative and can't harm others?...it is general perception...but if we consider there is god and say god created everything...automatically god becomes source of good/bad , right/wrong, evil/non evil , good/bad...negative too comes from god as does positive, or else there has to be two copies of god...one which is source of all good and one that is source of all bad...if we say that god is singular , HE is good,bad combined then....
penny - you are more correct than you might imagine. The direction of our engagement would necessarily determine what we perceive. Memory - not allowing mental impressions to escape - would preclude a correct perception of God/consciousness, in essence going backward or more correctly put, sinking deeper into affliction, that which prevents us from discernment. Conversely, those who cling to organized religious groups are essentially doing the wrong thing but for the right reasons.
Rich - it would be foolish to confuse the physical heart with the emotional heart just as it is incorrect to confuse the brain as being the mind. There is much, much more to existence of life than most of us know. I would challenge you to give me an example of someone who has an artificial heart and has become devoid of emotion.
Can you please define what an 'Emotional Heart' is? Sorry for my ignorance but this is the first time I have been told that we have Two different types of hearts!!!
A person with artificial heart will not lack any emotion & that was exactly my point. Because, emotions occur from our brain honey, not from our heart! Feelings & emotions all forms from parts of our brain. Heart has nothing to do with dat. Please go through Psychology -101 before starting this type of conversation again.
No need to be rude, Rich, this is a friendly conversation. So then we agree. Since you did not really state this, it is sometimes difficult for me to read between the lines of innuendo, no offense intended. Now let me ask you a question. What exactly is brain honey?
Nearly every brain-regulating chemical found in your brain has also been found in your gut brain (the enteric nervous system)including both hormones and neurotransmitters. The total of nerve cells in your gut is greater than the total nerves connecting the rest your body to your brain. This complex circuitry allows your “gut brain” to act totally independent of the brain in your skull.
So scientists are calling this the second brain. During early fetal development both your “gut” (esophagus, stomach, small intestine and colon) and your primary brain start to develop from the same clump of embryonic tissue.
When that piece of tissue divides, one piece grows into your central nervous system (your brain and cranial nerves). The other section becomes your enteric nervous system (your “gut brain.”)
During later stages of fetal development, these two brains then became connected via a massive nerve -- the vagus nerve.
The vagus nerve is the longest of all our cranial nerves, and creates a direct connection between your brain and your gut.
"Many mystical and natural healing practices consider the belly a major center of energy and higher consciousness.
In China, the arts of Tai Chi and Qigong emphasize the lower abdomen as a major reservoir for life energy and health. The belly is considered the “dantian,” a key center for higher consciousness development."
Also a primary source of pain relief, the “gut brain” naturally produces chemicals (benzodiazepine) found in many pain relievers and anti-anxiety drugs like Valium.
And like your primary brain, your “gut brain” also has opiate receptors.
“Drugs like morphine and heroin also attach to the gut's opiate receptors and both brains can become addicted to opiates."
"How can we phantom just how great the sum total must be."
There u go Jerami! You said it all. We can pack it up and go home. God is doing fine in his Heaven and earth and everywhere else. The only problem with God is in the mind of human beings that want to assume they can know the mind of God. All you do is give yourself and everyone else a headache. You can't know the word of God. THE WORD OF GOD! GOD SAYS THIS IN THE BIBLE, ALLAH SIAD THAT IN THE KORAN! GOD SPOKE TO ME, AND HE SAID...
I Think, the greatest sin man commits, is assuming to know the mind of God.
Thank you, Baileybear. The fact that the brain sends signals to the rest of the body when one begins to experience a crush, for example, or a death of a loved one, is where the idea about emotional heart probably began. Our heart rate increases, we breath differently, blood pressure increases, etc. I'm pretty sure anyone who passed 5th grade knows we have one heart, one brain though I can understand how the idea could be misleading. I guess I will need to follow my own advice and consider the audience and context in conversation. I try to be exacting when I'm writing because it is easy to be misinterpreted. I will be more mindful in future. (No pun intended)
Rich, you're a real wise guy. Some people spend a lifetime learning and the web has certainly made information more readily available. You can argue that Google can make anyone seem more knowledgeable and there would be some truth to that. One could just as easily go to a book or to an expert or draw from one's own experience. If you can't hold up an intelligent conversation, or at least take part in some intelligent way, maybe you should not pretend to be part of the conversation...........honey. I'm a little weary of reverse prejudice. I don't pretend to be smart. I am smart. I don't pretend to be smarter than you or anyone else. I bring to the conversation and debate in the way I know using the best of my intellect. If for some reason you are offended by someone who likes to learn, it's not my problem. You should consider striving for something you really want and by your comments I'd say you want to be more educated. Instead you spend your time belittling and making sarcastic remarks.
Ok so why punish us for being what He created us as? I mean really, make us with curiosity, put a tree right in the middle of the garden (not atop some massive sheer cliff top, perhaps with thorns and poison ivy all around it) and say
'see this tree here, this one right here.... pay attention guys! seriously, this is going to be in the quiz later and if you don't stop playing with that unicorn I swear to Me that I am going to take it away!... Right thats it, I am taking the unicorn back!.... Now where was I? Oh right, see this tree here, No not that one Adam, this one here, with the pretty looking fruit on it! Yes thats one Adam! Right, under no circumstances are you to eat this fruit, Eve I am looking at you!'
Then get all surprised when we are susceptible to a talking snake stirring up our curiosity (give to us by God mind you) about what makes that particular bit of fruit off limits! Not very well thought out by the Creator in my opinion.
I am what I am and I am not going to apologize for being so. I don't recall asking to be created and I sure don't appreciate being created for the purpose of worshiping a God that demands it with threats of hell and eternal damnation. I am who I am, I do the best I can with the abilities I have and if that is not good enough then to bad! Might be an idea to go back to the drawing board if worshipers are all that this God wants. Remove the curiosity, limitations in understanding, time it takes to develop and create a virtual pet on a key chain instead.
Everything you learn exists in your brain, but, why God would be different than anything else you learn, seems kind of pointless.
I think this is why it is so hard for these world religions and the scientists to agree. Because there are a lot of people in this world who make it a point to make you believe in "their" god, while they try to discourage you from thinking or believing anything else. Because we only know God, because someone told us he exists.
Hundreds of years ago people had the same notion that the world was flat. And, they certainly didn't know about the planets, heck, they once thought the sun was god. We only know what we learn.
So, to say that God exists in our brain can only be true. The only way it could not be true, is if nobody ever learned about it. As I'm sure that there are still things that we have not learned yet.
I had a grandmother named Hazel, but you didn't know that. But now you do because I told, just like you learned about God.
Briman - You have a point. I think it's also possible that if we were not told there was a God, we would still sense this God/consciousness and at some point give it a name. Of course, religion has taken this to another dimension.
If you believe on this .Then what is the will to identify good and bad people.Pl tolerate all.Love all. I think we may notice some times by the way of knowledge not brain. All are having same brain[ weight wise and size wise...]but different in knowledge wise.
jay - I believe there is no doubt that good and bad people exist at any given time. This is a strong argument for reincarnation. It is not likely that the worst of us became that way in one short lifetime. Energy has built over several lifetimes and the will to cling to old experiences has not allowed the soul to remember well the God/consciousness. Not being emersed in an environment of good, the evil soul continues along the same path, sinking deeper and deeper into the path away from God/consciousness. The application of mastery comes in stages: steadfastness of mind, unbroken continuation of mental ability/meditation, consciousness of that meditation and not of the mind. These together are self-control. With mastery of this comes wisdom, witnessing the rise and destruction of distraction.
paarsurrey - I think I disagree with this to some extent. Most major religions tell us that God is in us in some form or other whether it be Holy Spirit or some other form. If God is everywhere, as the religions contend, why then is God not in us/part of us just as your parents are part of you?
ok But we feel joy,sorrow, fear and pressure by the way of Heart beat. We can not feel any thing through brain. I think brain is only for body operation. Why heart give the spontaneous reaction for the things.
Those are cleanliness in Heart will see GOD. - BIBLE. We can control the things If we control the Heartbeat. Is it true.
jay - I think we can learn to control physical things like heart rate, yes. The brain is the control center. But we can still feel emotion. People who are practiced in self control can do this, like Brahmins and sages and monks. They experience the world but are not affected by it. They practice discrimination against all negativity and only experience higher emotions such as joy. I'm only surmising what I've learned through reading, not first hand knowledge. I have never been a monk.
The brain interprets what we sense or feel. This is why the heart rate increases or decreases. It increases in heightened emotional times and decreases in times of peace, calm and tranquility states. The heart rate is a physical reaction to what the brain interprets. Whatever the brain interprets not only the heart but the rest of the body reacts if we are aware.
The pure of heart the bible points to, is what is sensed without our perceptions getting in the way. A kind of no mind state.
I have been conversing with nonbelievers for a number of years now and I am quite certain they have no desire or interest in changing their perspective pertaining to their beliefs so what I say now is more for believers than for nonbelievers.
If we are to accept the concept that the universe spontaneously created itself and there is no one or nothing except physical properties which runs everything then the only logical conclusion we can draw from these developments isn't that all of life and all of the universe was simply a mistake. With that in mind those of us who live serve no purpose. We have no high ideals to gravitate to since we are simply a mistake. Creating laws, respecting each other have no significance since we came from nothing and we will return to nothing.
Finally. Well done. Human laws? Human lives? Meaningless. Forgotten in a heartbeat or a meteor strike. Well done. Now you can stop claiming to be so important and causing so many fights and instead get on with being nice to your fellow man.
Oh wait - you don't want to do that because there is no Invisible Super Being watching, and it only makes sense to do this if there is an Invisible Super Being watching.
biggest help can be forgetting about god and teaching humans to be plain humans ...rather than wondering about after life which no one has seen or god which no one would see...if humans become compassionate enough...who needs god and who cares whether god exist or not...it is non important issue...but problem is with human's zeal of after life or heaven or special preference...that keeps god thing going and would keep god thing going...
It is your free will to deny Allah-the Creator God; so I don't mind.
Belief in God does not mean that one should not be a good human being or should not be compassionate. A Theist can be a good and compassionate person as could an Atheist be a bad human being and without compassion.
and it can be reverse order too...that is whole point...one doesnot need book , god and religion to be what you define as good human and if god is real , HE wont be interested in how many bow in front of it but He would be more interested in how many do what they have power within themselves to do...
human mind work according to data/views/experience of life that we save in our hard disk(mind). garbage in garbage out nothing else. we work according to our habits; so how can we say that god exist in our mind.
thanks for asking because in answering this i would be also explaining the topic title...
what about the mind?
It is amazing to verify that even after several centuries of philosophical ponderations, hard dedication to brain research and remarkable advances in the field of neuroscience, the concept of mind still remains obscure, controversial and impossible to define within the limits of our language.
One strongly held view is that the mind is an entity distinct from the brain; this speculation has its historical roots: the early theories, termed dualistic hypotheses of the brain function, which stated that the material brain can be viewed mechanistically but that mind is some entity with different and undefined physical character. In such theories the mind was seen as synonymous with the soul, forming an integral part of the prevailing religious culture. For example, René Descartes (1596-1650) the french philosopher, perpetuated Plato's (428-348 B.C.) mind-body dualism philosophically separating the mind and the body (1). He stimulated the debate "How does the non material mind influence the brain and vice versa ?" His ideas permeated philosophical and scientific views right up to the present day, changing the way in which mainstream research approached the problem of self. Since the mind and brain were now usually viewed as isolated entities, research into these areas was inherently separate; biochemists concerned themselves with objective somatic mechanisms, psychologists wrestled with the subjective properties of the mind; philosophers and theologians carried with them the spirit and soul.
Mindis a definition which tries to rescue the essence of man. The essence of a person arises from the existence of mental functions which permit him or her to think and to perceive, to love and to hate, to learn and to remember, to solve problems, to communicate through speech and writing, to create and to destroy civilizations. These expressions are closely related with brain functioning. Therefore, without the brain, the mind cannot exist, without the behavioral manifestation, the mind cannot be expressed.
Spirit and soul seem to be religious and metaphysical interpretations of the mind. Neuroscience has understood the brain and the mind as a result of experimental investigation. Acceptance or rejection of the existence of the spirit and soul depends on faith and religious conviction, which cannot be proved or disproved by experimental methods. It seems to be more coherent to think that beliefs are dependent on physiological activity of the brain and of our cultural environment. We cannot have religious concepts if we do not have a functioning brain (e.g., as when the brain activity is blocked by coma or deep anesthesia) and we cannot believe in things which we do not learn, hear, or experience. It is not impossible to think that some people can "learn" to believe in the existence of God, life after death and supernatural forces because the brain is provided with emotional centers in order to satisfy psychological needs. I frequently ask myself: "Is there any brain region involved with mystic-religious experience? Could either lesions or absence of those regions abolish religious beliefs? Or, on the contray, could "electrical storms" (hyperstimulation of neuronal circuits) provoked by psychotic or epileptic seizure be acting on specific brain circuitry that processes a possible religious feeling?"
From Journal...so i hope that answers both concept of mind and concept of god..
Brain and heart are physical parts in our body and hence their functions could be descirbed and discussed by science and philosophy; mind's abode is in our soul or spirit and hence are out of their scope.
Allah is not invented by Muhammad or Quran; it existed much before in the Arabian Peninsula; it means “al-elah” or God with all the best attributes that humans can imagine; in other parts of the world people could have different names for Him in their own languages; it does not matter as long as the attributes are the same and have no blemish.
daily so many people get killed by their brother or sister or relative...do you think god keeps on asking to those who murder?...it is concept...nice one but still a concept...btw we have blood talk concept in tradition but it is more about tracing the killer than anything to do with god...
jay - this reference in Genesis to blood is symbolic, not literal. The blood does not actually speak. It is a reference to the action of spilling the blood which 'asks for justice'. Perhaps this is where the confusion is.
God is just a word. Jesus and Budha were preaching same ideas interpreted differently. Neither spoke of a deity that sits on the clouds above and watches if you are good or bad. Sin in it's true meaning means to miss the mark, nothing bad nothing to be punished for and hell is also just a word that represents the state of humans in which you are right now. never ending wants, needs that in the end cause only suffering.
God exists and is real - your brain notwithstanding. God created the heaven and the earth - and man. God's word is full of information about God. There lies the real authority - not man's philosophies.
maticmagister, I base it on what is written in the true word of God. The scriptures were inspired by God when the men wrote the bible. I guess you assumed I was taught by what people say. I hope I answered your questions.
Oh, you mean like Darwin, Newton, Einstein and Hawking? You mean to tell us that you have a total understanding of what they are about? If you don't, then I geuss they could say anything and you would believe it. What is the difference. You still let those more intelligent than you tell you what to think. Newton wrote a book of prophecies. It's in the vatican.
God's creation is all around us and bears testimony to him. I have a personal relationship with God, as my heavenly Father and he's has continually worked in my life. It takes faith the size of a grain of mustard seed to move a mountain:)
God does not have a physical domain. The human brain is an organ that is necessary for autonomic functions. Consciousness is not located there. God is not located there. Where one can go beyond consciousness, beyond logical thinking and beyond reasoning, one, may, perhaps, find God.
You cannot intellectulize something that is beyond our comprehension.Philosophy is too limited . Our finite minds cannot comprehend an infinite power. That is I think why Atheist get so frustrated and Agnostics have skepticism. Because they try to view God from our human standards and limited thinking.
I guess that is for all of us to decide. That is an inside job. There is only one absolute and that is God be he buddhist , catholic, jewish , or whatever. By the way I am not religious.While I do believe in God, I am not one of those guntoting Christians in case you were going to go down the stereotyping path.
You will probably say that I can't prove there is a God.I will say that you can't prove there isn't. I am just trying to avoid the boring talking in circles.
>>> who decides what is truth and what is not? @Pisean good question. i think, rite or wrong/ truth or lie decided by society. suppose no. of society members do a job that u think isn't rite but they think they r going rite.
The life is in the blood, not God. When the body dies, the blood in a sense disappears, yes. But God still exists. He is pure consciousness, not blood. Jesus is considered the lifeblood of believers, I think. When Christians take the symbolic 'host' they are taking the body of Christ, the wine is the symbolic blood of Christ. But it is all symbolism.
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