1 After this, I looked at the sky and saw something else that was great and marvelous;seven angels were bringing the last seven plagues. (THE FINAL PUNISHMENTS FROM GOD FOR THOSE STILL REMAINING ON THE EARTH) They contain God's anger.2 Then I saw something that looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire,(THIS APPEARS TO BE ARTISTIC INTERIOR DECORATION IN FRONT OF GOD'S THRONE) and people were standing on the glass. They were the ones who had defeated (PROBABLY REFERS TO THE FACT THAT THEY WERE GRANTED SALVATION AND THUS WON A SPIRITUAL VICTORY) the beast (THE ANTI-CHRIST) and the idol (A STATUE OF HIM THAT WAS WORSHIPED) and the number that tells the name of the beast. (IT IS THOUGHT THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE MURDERED BY THE ANTI-CHRIST'S FOLLOWERS) God had given them harps, 3 and they were singing the song that his servant Moses (THE LYRICS OF THIS SONG ARE ALSO RECORDED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY ) and the Lamb (JESUS) had sung. They were singing "Lord God All-Powerful,you have done great and marvelous things.You are the ruler of all nations, and you do what is right and fair. 4 Lord, who doesn't fear you (MOST CHRISTIANS NOW DO NOT FEAR GOD BECAUSE VERY FEW MINISTERS EVER DISCUSS HIS WRATH BUT ALMOST ALL WILL FEAR GOD AFTER THE PUNISHMENTS DESCRIBED IN THIS BOOK ARE DELIVERED) and praise your name? You alone are holy, and all nations will come and worship you ( THIS IS THOUGHT TO PREDICT WHAT WILL OCCUR AFTER JESUS ESTABLISHES HIS KINGDOM ON EARTH WHICH WILL NOT ALLOW ANY SEPARATION BETWEEN "CHURCH AND STATE") because you have shown that you judge with fairness."5 After this, I noticed something else in heaven. The Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony (WHERE THE SACRED 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE STORED) was open.(THANK GOD THEY ARE HONORED IN HEAVEN UNLIKE ON EARTH) 6 And the seven angels who were bringing the seven plagues were coming out of it. They were dressed in robes of pure white linen (INDICATES THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS) and wore belts made of pure gold.(SIMILAR TO THE BELT DESCRIBED PREVIOUSLY THAT JESUS WEARS SHOWING THAT THEY ARE ACTING AS HIS PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVES IN THIS PUNISHMENT MISSION ) 7 One of the four living creatures gave each of the seven angels a bowl made of gold. (THIS IS THOUGHT TO INDICATE THAT THE PUNISHMENTS ABOUT TO IMPLEMENTED WILL BE EXTREMELY SEVERE MANIFESTATIONS OF GOD'S HOLY ANGER ) These bowls were filled with the wrath of God who lives eternally. 8 The temple quickly filled with (REAL NOT SYMBOLIC ) smoke from the glory and power of God. No one could enter it (THE TEMPLE) until the seven angels had finished (THIS PROHIBITION ON ENTRY IS THOUGHT TO BE BECAUSE GOD DID NOT WISH TO RECEIVE ANY INTERCESSORY PLEADINGS FOR MERCY FOR THE MORALLY DEPRAVED PERSONS WHO WERE LEFT ON EARTH AFTER THE RAPTURE) creating the seven plagues.(THIS WILL OCCUR AT THE VERY END OF THE TRIBULATION)
Seems like a lot of anger, punishment, plagues and severity in that religion. I'll pass, thanks.
I've asked you a dozen times what you are a "DR." of with no response. Why is that?
I can imagine you being a "DR." of theology which makes you about as credible, as a forum donator, as "bugs bunny."
I'm at a loss. What purpose does this forum serve? your hub page says you have a doctorate in psycholology, all I can say is 'Physician, heal thyself.' Please.
I think you might find that the morally depraved left on earth might actually enjoy a bit of whipping LOL!
This is the most unchristian, unloving outpouring I have ever read and I suppose that you think that you have a first class ticket on the said rapture train so none of it is going to happen to you?
This is a writing site - not a church gathering. Why not get reproductive and support the site like I do? Without the likes of me you wouldn't have anywhere to post on HP - pure math.
I agree this chapter describes the 1st resurrection, which means that the rapture had happened prior to this.
Which would mean that this chapter describes the same events as is also described in Chapter 20.
Just a couple of things to think about.
Chapter 8 & 9 describe 6 of the trumpets being sounded but not the 7th ?? Why ?
Chapter 11 describe when the seventh trumpet will be sounded; after Gods two witnesses are killed and lay dead in the courtyard for 3 days.
When they come back to life, THEN the last trumpet will be sounded. But it is not described as being sounded in any of these verses.
Then suddenly Chapter 15 describes the 1st resurrection is described, but the 7th trumpet is not described as being sounded as yet.
WHY NOT ?
ATER the first resurrection, (C 15) the seven vials are handed out to the seven angels.
OK ... here is the tricky part ... think real hard.
Rev 16:10 The fifth angel pours his vial out upon the seat of the beast. THE BEAST is still has a seat?
The Beast was here long before the first resurrecting, and is still here after the resurrection. How can that be?
16:12 And when the sixth vial is poured out, the dragon, the Beast and False Prophet are seen in the dried up Euphrates river.
The devil, the Beast, and false prophet are still upon the earth long after the first resurrection! How can that be ?
The Beast was only given 42 months. The Beast was here before the 1000 years that the dragon was bound. And the Beast is still here after the 1000 years are finished! How can that Be ?
Does anyone see a problem here?
Starting right at page one and right on through
I don't think you see the problem then,
Kinda like you see the horse but not the ears, or the eyes, or the one white sock, You just see a horse, and you have a problem with horses.
I see stories written by primitive people and can trace many of them to other stories written by even more primitive and superstitious people.
I see nonsense and babble, lies and contradictions.
I see people like you waving their hands to try to make it real.
Don't you have better things to do with your life?
Pay no attention to him jerami. I'm curious, most of the chapter of revelations has always been greek to me. Is there really a rapture? I've always read that that concept is a recent belief.
There is something described to be something like what the Church teaches as the Rature.
It was first mentioned in Daniel 12:1 & 2.
It is said to occur when the "Little Horn" comes to his end.
This "Little Horn" Is said to be A king belonging to the fourth Kingdom to be given dominion over THAT Hebrew Nation that existed long, long ago,
Scripture describes him this way.
That fourth kingdom has ten horns, each representing a different king in procession. And then, after these ten kings a little horn rises up replacing three kings.
I understand this to mean that the Little Horn will be the 14 Emperor of the Roman Empire.
Funny thing, Hadrian was the 14th emperor; also the LAST emperor of the Roman Empire cause that Hebrew Nation ceased to exist during his reign.
Hadrian fills all of the descriptions of this "Little Horn"
Hadrian scattered that Hebrew nation through out the rest of the Roman Empire, fulfilling Rev 12.
Daniel 11:45 says that when he comes to his end, At That Time shall Michael stand up and redeam the children of Daniels people from among men.
That is the first Mention of what the church calls the rapture.
The way I understand it; we are way, way past 99% of all prophesy as written in scripture
Yeh,i think so too, but everyone has thought the end would come since just after the resurrection. I don't understand the prophecies at all. I wish I did. I can see where the things in Daniel came to pass, but the predictions people get out of it for the future don't seem to ring true. Like people keep saying Russia is going to attack Israel. That send highly unlikely to me.
Yes, they see the description of these different beasts in Rev. and apply then out into our future when the meaning of these same beast were identified in the book of Daniel.
For instance the bear is said to represent Persia, and the leopard represents Greece, etc.
But people like to stretch their imagination and make up their own stories.
Everyone else is doing it, why not them too?
I can think of a billion reasons not to. they talk about the great battle. The thing that scares me is, I don't think who is who well be so clear. Do you think we'll be scratching our heads wondering who is the good guy?
No, but I bet people like you will still be scratching their heads wondering why it hasn't happened ten thousand years from now.
I don't think that we need to worry about that.
ALL of these prophesy have already happened in my opinion.
We gotta remember that these visions should be understood in the same way as you would interpret your dreams.
It is all symbolism. Like the devil being thrown into the lake of fire.
I see it as symbolism of being done away with.
It could just as well have been symbolized by seeing him being run over by a bulldozer. Done away with.
A literal lake of fire ? I don't think so! But; I could be wrong ?
edit. All have been ulfilled except for the 7th trumpet and 7th vial.
Your very interesting. I've noticed on your posts that you said you'd been researching this for a while. Any thing on your hub you can recommend that would shed the most light? That a person that just doesnt get this stuff would understand?
This one might shed a little more light on what my concept is "Post Resurrection Maybe?"
I think that is where we are at.
I haven't read it sense I wrote it, Tell me what ya think.
I think you are exactly right. To me this chapter is the most interesting to read, but for me the symbolism makes the interpretation very difficult.
For me... I gained a different point of view after months and months of studying, and disecting the book of Daniel.
I realized that these visions were all pertaining to That Hebrew Nation that the promise of the Messia was given to.
Four beasts in two of these visions were clearly said to be the first four kingdoms to be given dominion over that Hebrew Nation that ceased to be in 135 thru 138 AD when the 14 Emperor of Rome sold all of the inhabitance into slavery through out the rest of the kingdom.
This is when the times of the Gentiles began.
This is when the woman in Rev. 12 was carrid away into the wilderness etc etc.
Most all of the symbolism used in Rev. was already explained in the book of Daniel.
At least that is the way I understand it.
Puts a totaly diffrent prospective on the whole thing.
I will have to compare with Daniel. Sometimes I have a hard time going back to other chapters, because I get so wrapped up on the one I'm reading.
Actually it seemed to be a breakthrough for me in questioning my belief system, and those things that I was taught; when I stumbled upon Daniel (9:1)
(9:1) ...first year of Darius the Mede apointed king ...
(538 BC) Daniel has this vision
(9:22) Gabriel came to Daniel and said , I have come to give you skill and understanding.
(9:23) the commandment has gone forth ...
(9:25) from the time the commandment goes forth to build Jerusalem it shall be 69 weeks unto Messiah the Prince.
and after 62 weeks they are going to kill the messiah.
This was a wake up call
If it was 30 AD that they killed the Messiah, ????
Then 62 weeks in prophesy must be equal to 568 of our years.
YA think ???
edit This caused a landslide in my mind
Why doesn't the church teach this or why do they not want to talk about it ?
It is clear why psychologists have concluded that religion is a form of psychosis.
This post, if it was not referring to religion, would be grounds to really really seriously analyze the mindset that this came from.
Come on, Jerami.
I used to think it intertaining to let you play your little battle of wits,
Might I suggest that you change your style, or your routine?
At least find some new material.
Insult me from a different angle ?? anything.
Sorry, I didn't mean to be insulting, But I see there is no way to get most believers to actually think about how ridiculous some of the comments sound that they make..
And I forgot that---of all the 38,000 different denominations of Christianity, YOUR version of the interpretation of scripture is the ONE. I guess I should just forget about my Jehovah Witness friends, and thousands of others.
Have you ever read any of my hubs?
Why don't ya read the one I suggested to just curious
"Post Resurrection Maybe?" Then ya might know a little about what I'm thinking.
Who knows, ya might find some new material to slap me with?
Read your hub. I have heard that point of view before, but it is still a matter of what one chooses to believe, according to mistranslated scripture.
Of course, my former church is in the pre-resurrection camp.
They will not hear anything accept that Jesus is coming soon.
I didn't just fall into the post resurrection camp.
It took many years of studying the book of Daniel, before I eliminated the many preconceived ideas as to what I was reading.
Being indoctrinated (I don't like that word) as to what we are about to read, before we even read it, sets in motion a belief that we are reading something that simply isn't what it says.
I can't tell ya how many preconceived ideas that I had to eliminate before I established the belief system that I have, such as it is,
It is ALL mine. Self constructed. ... But I did have some help from my invisible friend.
I read somewhere that all psychologists are psychotic, but I don't believe everything I read.
It looks very similar to the last letter from my ex-wife - that was a revelation too...
Like I said, You like nothing about it. Therefore you do not see one ear is bigger than the other. Or that one eye is blue and the other green.
You do not see what is wrong with that story cause you don't want to see the story.
That is OK; You may get taken to heaven whether ya want to or not?
We can only go to heaven these days in any case as hell is already full up...
What a horrible thought. I'd have to be with theists for eternity?
I would pass, thanks. Y'all are insufferable enough here.
so much doom and gloom. There are indeed prophecies in the bible, pointing to our day, I believe that, but not such bad news, there is so much good news, isn't there?
I have to agree.
While I think all of it is nonsense, if you want to believe it, why not take up the cheerful stuff and ignore the rest?
After all, you are all good at ignoring and waving away other parts.
There is happiness and unhappiness paths - it like a railroad switch, you pull the lever and choose your route... Mine is set and locked to happiness...
John is seeing "visions" in this chapter - John's vision. A lot of mystery, a lot of vision, a lot of prophecy.
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