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Do Christians Make A Difference In People's Lives?

  1. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    As far back has recorded American history it seems Christains worked to provide education, health care, and hope.  The PBS program below link is about 26 minutes long as the program is titled Religion & Ethics.

    Do you think Christians make a difference in life or not?

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Not sure about the life part, but some of them can put a hurting on your pocketbook. Actually...Yes Christians do make a difference...some for good others for bad...same as any other Faith or beliefs...some help for good others...not so much...

    2. profile image0
      Travis_S_Musicposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I'd have to agree with Double on that. Just as ANYONE in the world, some help for good, others help for bad. There are a lot of "fakes" out there, that use religion as a tactic to scam people. Others do it for the right cause, spreading the word, and supporting charities to raise awareness and help to the less fortunate. It's becoming more rare to find these "real" ones any more, the way the world is twisting and becoming even more greedy, wanting money and power.

    3. PhoenixV profile image80
      PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Organized religion, namely Christianity founded many of the Colonial Colleges- Harvard, William and Mary and many others.

      In the United States the traditional hospital is a non-profit hospital, usually sponsored by a religious denomination-wikipedia

      Primary or elementary and secondary schools not long ago were usually Churches that also served as one room school houses. These old buildings are still everywhere in the country. Usually the Churches would up donating the property in most cases for public schools.

      Without organized religion in the United States, chances are most Americans would be in pretty bad shape as a citizens today. Contrary to that scenario we arguably became the worlds leader as a country.

      1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
        oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Those are the facts, true, and it makes sense what you are saying.

    4. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Christians have made a definite difference in history.   There is an incredible amount of good that many would like us to just simply forget about, which is kind of odd, if people are for freedom and good for all.  Some would like to rewrite, and deny factual history.

      1. PhoenixV profile image80
        PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, they seem desperate to deny indisputable facts. A country whose citizens predominantly subscribe to a certain religion rose to be a world leader in many fields, such as education and medicine. Both of which can be directly, almost exclusively in cases, tied to that organized religion's efforts

    5. Titen-Sxull profile image93
      Titen-Sxullposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sure Christians make a difference but than again so do non-Christians. The religion isn't deserving of praise but the people who help out are. You can tell people to be nice to each other and give to charity and be a good person without needing Christ or any deity or any supernatural motivation. All it takes is empathy.

      1. PhoenixV profile image80
        PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You cant win a war by parachuting individuals "willy nilly" into a battlefield. Hospitals all across the nation and colleges and secondary schools, indeed had the help of the individual, but couldnt have been as effective without the organization.

        1. Titen-Sxull profile image93
          Titen-Sxullposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Obviously the more organized people are when helping others the better the results. Whether a charity organization is religious or not makes little difference. One doesn't need religion for there to be charity, charity is just one function that Christianity has performed. The actual religious part of the organization is entirely useless.

          1. PhoenixV profile image80
            PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this
    6. profile image0
      Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I've just written a hub about the difference 'christian' cults made in people's lives - sex abuse etc

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That will not matter. They were not real Christians. In fact - starting a thread to gloat about how wonderful Christians are is actually against what the bible teaches - and then fighting with people about it is also against what the bible teaches.

        There have never been any real Christians I guess. sad

        1. profile image0
          Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          the bible is quite vague when people can use it to justify slavery, racism, sexual freedom and other such things

          1. profile image0
            just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You are right. People have stood behind individual scriptures to advocate a lot of damaging actions. I remember as a kid, gritting my teeth in Sunday school while they tried to show is it was Biblical to be against integration.

        2. PhoenixV profile image80
          PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Why does the Truth seem like gloating to you? Because you dont like truth?

        3. oceansnsunsets profile image89
          oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Seems like more put downs.  I think that acknowledging facts of matters, is not gloating at all.  We see a lot of people going after things that turn out to based in poor thinking and just put downs of those they disagree with.  The OP makes great points, and I wonder if you can answer his question or not, or just keep putting people down?  Its a fair question, and it deserves an answer.

          Showing people where they are in error, when they are putting others down, is a normal, moral and good thing to do, its not fighting.  That is just another put down, clearly.

          I think there would be a lot less errors to be corrected if people were more decent with each other and even if people just stuck to the facts.  That would help a lot, but we aren't seeing it.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Aww - sorry - how many people have been murdered by Christians?

            Lets go with some facts.

            1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
              oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Can you address my points?  You seem to have missed them all.  I address your accusations head on.  Thank you.  No one is disputing people have killed others.  That is an old point.  You agree with Jesus there.... Christians shouldn't murder.  Those ARE the facts.  How about not answering the OP question?

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                The OP's question? Yes - I am certain that all the children who have been sexually abused by priests have have had a difference made in their lives.

                Yes - all the millions murdered by Christians have had a difference made in their lives by Christians - I agree.

                Well done. Hold your head high like the OP said. sad

                1. PhoenixV profile image80
                  PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  One minute its 2 billion now its millions, are you talking about atheist regimes or just making stuff up?

                2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Denying the incredible amount of good of Christianity then and now is one route to take, I guess.  I think I will side with those that look at all the facts, not just the one side that supports what they want to be true.

                  No one denies that priests molesting kids is wrong, no one denies that killing others is wrong.  You don't address the non christian murderous regimes though, that have done things much more recently.  Despite that, Jesus agreed that hurting children is wrong, and killing is wrong.  You tend to agree with Christianity, yet attack it very hard.  Why is that?

              2. PhoenixV profile image80
                PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                He doesnt have any points or facts unless you count the ones he is "making up"

    7. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Absolutely, a huge difference. The question is, what the heck can we do about it? smile

  2. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago
  3. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    I can see the value in both your prospectives.  It is unfortunate that evil still presents itself in those areas where true love of fellow man is most needed.

    1. profile image0
      Travis_S_Musicposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I believe personally that it has to do with everyone getting rid of religion. Think about it. Back when prayer was in school, the commandments were in the court, and people weren't so mean about open religious beliefs, things were progressing okay. Now, religious rights are being taken away, and everything is turning for the worse. Just a thought. I'm sure some one will have something to say against this.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If you wish to believe it was "better" with slavery and segregation - that is your choice. A lot of white Americans think this way.

        Personally - I find your religious convictions to be disgusting and am glad you have gotten rid of certain aspects. Christian faith is responsible for many ills that - oddly - you want to bring back. sad

        Just as a matter of interest - what religious "rights" have been "taken away" from you?

        1. PhoenixV profile image80
          PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Interestingly history shows facts like abolitionism being advocated by evangelicals, and quakers at home and abroad.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            It also shows opposition by Christians and organized protests by the same.

            So - what is your point? You only want credit for the good stuff and we should forget the bad stuff?

            1. PhoenixV profile image80
              PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Why not? You only talk exclusively about any bad stuff.

              What about atheist regimes any good stuff there ever?

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I talk about the bad stuff so we do not forget and pretend Christianity is the super duper wondrousness we should be totally proud of.

                Just adding a little balance.

                1. PhoenixV profile image80
                  PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Enver Hoxha of Albania first atheist state. First thing they do is start killing people. Couple of decades ago...

                  Interesting they had the same anti religion hate speech and rhetoric as most of these atheist dictators and nuts always do.

                  1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                    oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you for more and current facts.  Its scary if left unchecked, and one worldview supports more freedoms for all.  All of us should go with what helps more people overall, not murders them for their beliefs.

            2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
              oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Here is the difference.  One set of actions by Christians down the ages CAN be supported by what Jesus actually taught.  The other sets of actions, the ones you actually find negative, are also thought of as negative by Christ Jesus.  Jesus, the founder of Christianity taught about hypocrites, and how dangerous it was to be like that.  People can choose what they want.

              Many here, are judging Christianity ONLY by those that break the rules of Christianity.  That, oddly, is showing a support for the goodness of Christianity and Jesus.  To disagree with killers down the ages, is to agree with Jesus and his apostles, who acted nothing like that and taught the opposite.  Whether the killers were christian, atheist, etc.

              Being mad at all the great good Christianity has done, that is in keeping with its actual teachings makes no sense. I think the point is about the history of a nation here, and there are facts. Lets keep clear thinking on the issues, and be fair to all actions.  To understand what Christianity is and teaches, matters here.  Blame the wrongful actions where they belong, the people that did it.  They can't say Christianity taught them to do anything bad, when they have to act diametrically opposed to it.  This makes sense.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                So - yes, you do want the credit for the good Christian acts, but will completely ignore the bad. LOLOLOLOLOL

                I thought you guys had personal relationships with Jesus in any case - now you are saying it is a religion out of a book. Which is it?

                I understand what Christianity is and teaches. You are living proof no one follows what is in the bible because it specifically tells you not to crow about your religion and not to fight with unbelievers.

                A true Christian. wink

                1. PhoenixV profile image80
                  PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Ocean is living proof of 1 Peter 3:15. It's obvious that you do not know Christianity and what it teaches.

                2. PhoenixV profile image80
                  PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Telling the truth is gloating and crowing?

                  So your worldview is that you think you can belittle other human beings on a daily basis without having to ever answer for it?

                  Man, I'd think I'd find a better worldview. Who would want to be like that? Dumping on people with no accountability. Sounds more like a spoiled childs mentality not the worldview of a grown man.

                3. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Mark, you can laugh at me and avoid my points and showing of facts all you like.  I don't like how you keep accusing of things that simply aren't true.  I have never once ignored anyone's killings.  In facts, the christians in this thread will acknowledge all the killings.

                  What I am trying to do, is point out some facts that are indisputable, and encourage an honest answer to a simple question in the OP.  Why is that so difficult if it is?  Instead, we get more put downs, and laughing at those you disagree with?  You can have a good laugh with yourself I guess, but not at my expense, not when I have been civil and pointing out the good and facts. Are you able to address the actual points, or comment how your other points have been refuted?  The negative behavior doesn't cover the ignoring of the facts.  It just shows how you operate in your own worldview, it seems to me.

                  Look at Paul and Jesus for example, to your last point.  They actually had answers very often to their accusers.  Paul debated with best theologians of his day.  You don't get a free pass for put downs, and then when people answer the distortions and put downs, put them down even more to try to discredit them. That isn't right of you.  I would like to request, again, that we stick with some facts, and please avoid the put downs and negativity.  I think that is possible and great for good forum discussions.

              2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                oceansnsunset, Your messages makes plenty of sense to me.

                1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you, WOC, I appreciate that.

        2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
          oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It was Christian principles that helped put an end to slavery.  Both here and overseas.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Dear me. sad Funny stuff. 2,000 years of enslaving people - and it was Kristian principals wot moved the slaves to China where u can't see them.

            1. PhoenixV profile image80
              PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Kristian? Wot? Is that baby talk or troll speak?

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Just making fun of your ridiculous beliefs and inability to follow your bible.

                Kristians Kausing Konflict. wink

                1. PhoenixV profile image80
                  PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  So you admit to being a pointless troll.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    How very Kristian of you to attack me thus.

                    No wonder you get "persecuted." LOL

                2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Mark, does your worldview support your current behavior in this forum and elsewhere?

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Absolutely. Yes. Arguing in favor of education instead of perpetuating myths as reality? Sure. You do not think that is OK?

            2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
              oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Mark, What 2000 years of enslaving people are you speaking of?  Where can you cite in the scriptures, that Christianity teaches that?  Its true Mark, it is Christian principles that ended slavery here and overseas.  You don't have to like history, but to deny it is pointless right?

  4. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Phoenix, Travis

       I appreciate your contributions and so-what if someone says something-heck that's been going on for ages but Christians are still here and they have proven their worth so hold your heads high Christian unlike some nothing more then loud mouths have tried to do for our fellow man.

        Thanks

    1. profile image0
      Travis_S_Musicposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Very much agreed span (:

    2. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I especially liked the witch burnings. Segregation was great.  Wiping out the Native Americans was cool as well. Look at the fights you start nowadays. 2,000 years of wars. Congrats. Be proud.

      Yay Christians! GO! You are the BEST EVER RELIGION !!  sad

      1. PhoenixV profile image80
        PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        22 witches 400 years ago pales in comparison to what atheist regimes have done in the last 60 years.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You guys were burning witches across Europe for 1,000 years.

          Oh wait - that is OK because Pol Pot was a atheist.

          Dear me. sad

          1. PhoenixV profile image80
            PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Millions killed by atheist dictators , recently not 1000 years ago .

            Whats your excuse?

            Only you didnt found colleges or hospital.

            1. profile image0
              just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Good point. I was online the other day and the site I was on estimated 70 million dead in the last fifty years by people such as you are speaking of.  I guess it's the old' log in your eye' problem for some.

              1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, these are facts in the second half of just this last century.  Its not being fair to what the facts are, and the philosophies that are actually driving the people to do what they did.

  5. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 6 years ago

    I do thing that being absorbed in religion provides methods for individuals to make outreach - whether through being part of programs at their place of worship, or through efforts of their own undertaking.

    I do not think that pointing all the accolades to any one religion's efforts over another is proper.  The real truth is that goodwill and charity come from the person, not the faith system.

    1. PhoenixV profile image80
      PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Propriety and the Truth may not always agree. What is improper is to deprecate the good things done.

    2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Gamergirl, I may have missed it, but I don't think that anyone here is trying to keep from giving any accolades to other religions here, by pointing out the good Christianity has done for America in particular since its beginnings.  Am I wrong?  I don't its either proper or not, to discuss the factual matters regarding what has been done in America since its beginnings.

      Any other religion having such an incredible influence can also be shared here,  or for other countries perhaps as well.  Its not an exclusion of them though, to point out the good one has done, correct? 

      As for the faith system, if a faith system teaches the people that follow it to do good things , and they do those things, then the good will and charity can definitely be linked to the faith system.   Do you disagree, and if so, why?

      1. kirstenblog profile image77
        kirstenblogposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I know this was not asked of me but I wanted to give my answer anyway. I disagree with linking good deeds to faith because to do so means that you must also link bad deeds to faith, instead of having personal responsibility.

        The religious often do not like to have the terrorists of their faith who kill abortion doctors linked to their religion, and have the versus from the Bible and the teachings of Jesus used to justify those acts.

        The religious person says, judge not my religion by the acts of those fanatics who are not 'true Christians' and commit evil acts while using the bible to justify it. You cannot let a religion take credit for the good deeds of people and not then demand they take responsibility for the evils done in the name of religion by evil people.

        1. PhoenixV profile image80
          PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Where does Jesus teach that its ok to murder?

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            “Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21

            “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.”  Matthew 15:4-7

            I wonder if you "christians" have actually read this book? lol lol

            1. PhoenixV profile image80
              PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Matthew 10:21 is where Jesus is accurately foretelling the persecution of those that follow Him and what will happen. In no stretch of the imagination does it advocate or teach murder. For you  to take something "that obviously out of context" and present it here is very telling of your own belief system. Is that the sum of "your worldview"?

              Matthew 15:4-7 is Jesus pointing out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees that allowed adults forsaking their parents that may have been in dire need so that the Pharisees could have that money or support instead. Do you think it is ok to allow your parents to die from neglect so that Pharasees can get paid? Do you think its a good thing to curse and forsake your parents in need? Do you think that is a good thing?  To abandon your own parents to neglect when they could be old and infirm? I think a person would be "better off dead" than to be as such.

              I cant believe that you would turn your back on your own parents, so you could keep the money instead.

              Now all that has passed away because there was no profit, from a human or moral standpoint to follow these type of laws. Quite the contrary, in light of someone would have to be without sin to carry out an order such as that.. I on the on the hand am not Jesus that could forgive some loser for abandoning his parents just so he could be greedy.

              Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law:

              for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified

              Some loser that kept the cash and made excuses why he was allowed to curse and forsake his parents would get off scott free just as when they wanted to stone to death that woman they presented to Christ.

              Because thats what Jesus taught.

              1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks for pointing out the facts, and explaining it in such detail.  Some people in an attempt to discredit, actually show support for Jesus and his teachings.  Such distortions only help to deceive and twist truths if they are maintained after being shown the factual errors.

              2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Phoenix, Exactly!

            2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
              oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Mark, those verses are talking about people that will be hurting christians, and it is not Christians being told to do that.  Those that hurt their own Christian brothers (Non christians hurting their christian brothers) is and will always be wrong.  Look at the whole chapter to understand the context. 

              Jesus goes on to say don't fear those that can just kill the body (what we see many regimes in history doing to many innocents), but can't kill the soul. 

              You posted verses showing that Jesus was right, actually. We see people in the world that like to do that, or would want to kill.  Their worldviews fail at that point, on just an immoral point, btw.

              Matthew 15 is harsh words for the pharisees and hypocrites, Jesus is saying how wrong they are.  Again, if you read the verses in their context you will find that to be true.  I have read it, and read it all, many times.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                So - you agree. Jesus did say harsh words and suggest killing. I know.

                I posted verses answering a question. Jesus did not actually exist, but thanks for showing Christians can not and do not follow what the bible says.

                You are a living example of that. sad

                1. PhoenixV profile image80
                  PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  You posted verses that werent remotely in context.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    That so huh? You asked - I provided.

                    But - unless you are a bronze age goat herder - none of it is "in context." lol

                    YAY! GO Kristians! 2 billion pagans murdered or converted! LOL

                    Why are you so angry?

                2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Putting words in people's mouths that they didn't say isn't good debate.  You didn't provide, and two people shared in detail to prove how you were wrong in your accusations.  They are not supported, but the opposite of what you are saying IS supported.  The context is clear for all, can you stop please with the put downs and accusations? 
                  You have lost all the points you tried to make in this thread, and still never answered the question the OP asked.  Can we get back to that at least?

          2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
            oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus doesn't teach its ok to murder, and actually teaches the opposite.  He teaches to love, forgive, and pray for your enemies even.  Do good to people, give above and beyond if asked of you.  These are principles that if more people followed, would make for more great societies everywhere.  This is why Christianity is such an attractive world view in part, besides that it gives such hope for the human condition.  When you see people put a worldview down that teaches such good, there is more going on there.

        2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
          oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          KirstenBlog, you need to know what Christianity teaches first, before you can really speak fairly on the topic.   When you know what it teaches, and then you see good deeds, then you CAN link it to the faith, very rightly so.  Also if you see people murdering, or doing awful things, and go look for that teaching, you won't find it from Jesus or the apostles.  My point is that some behaviors ARE backed, and some are NOT.  Many here are using those behaviors they call negative, and they are, and blaming it wrongly on christianity.  That isn't right, when Christianity agrees with them that it is wrong.  This is simple facts and logic here. 

          Kirsten, no one is justifying anything.  I call evil actions evil, but some here are calling it "christian" when it is not.  That is just an error and an accusation on top of it.   Get this, I DO call the wrong things wrong, I don't approve.  Please don't accuse people of such things, that isn't right. I do demand they take responsibility, but before I ever did, Jesus already did send that message.  None of this should be any surprise to the person that knows what Christianity actually teaches. 

          I will continue to ask that you do judge a religion fairly, no matter what it is.  The name calling and put downs we see in the forums is not right, and its "easy" as well.  ANYONE can find the heretics of a religion, point to them and say, "ahhh, that religion is bad!" but it will never make that a fact. Hope that clears some things up.

  6. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Gamergril

    You are certainly entitle to your belief but that doesn't mean your belief is right- It's just your belief.

  7. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 6 years ago

    I'm guessing from your response that unless I agree with you that only Christianity has made leaps and bounds of charity, goodwill, and general uplifting of mankind, you're going to pass over my responses entirely?

    1. profile image0
      Travis_S_Musicposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I have to agree with what you stated really. Yeah, the faith system was a big jump for it, but now-a-days a lot of charities are starting from people's own good will, wanting to help make a good difference in other's lives.

      1. gamergirl profile image59
        gamergirlposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Setting aside the religion of a person for a moment - whether religious beliefs precipitate charity and goodwill and the 'making of a difference in people's lives' really comes first from the heart of the person.  That's all I'm really trying to point out.  I'd hate to see the entirety of human history be discounted in their monumental efforts.

        1. profile image0
          Travis_S_Musicposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well of course (: Sadly though, too many people are about being over-protective of their beliefs or non-beliefs, that they treat each other poorly, just because they HAVE to be right about their ways. I understand defending and standing up for what you believe in, but to take it to a point where the arguments keep going and you can't settle on an agreement is rather annoying.

          1. profile image0
            china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Some people are able to see the damage that christians have done and are doing in the world.  As a way of living your own life it is hard to argue with a person's freedom to do and believe what they want but when it tries to impose its disproven and discredited arguments and unfinished wars onto the modern world it is a major cause of division and destruction.

            Here in China I occasionally visit the churches and meet up with christians hard at work trying to persuade the sensible, peaceful and pretty much non-aggressive Chinese people that the earth was made 7000 years ago, adam and ever are real people and the world is going to end soon.  This moronic teaching only attracts simple uneducated people and causes problems and unneccesary misery in their lives.  Hopefully the good general education that is now free for kids will counter the bs.

            1. PhoenixV profile image80
              PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Mao

              1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Ouch.... excellent point made, in 3 letters.  Many lives would have been saved, if Mao had followed the teachings of Jesus.  Instead he mass murdered and was operating from a different worldview.

            2. profile image0
              Travis_S_Musicposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              China, you are looking at your country, and in the wrong places then, if you see they are trying to force it on people. No one can really prove when the earth was made, not even science. They have their "guess" and us believers have our "guess." You are very close minded if you think science has proof for everything they say. Yeah, I'll agree some christians have done damage, but those aren't the ones believing for the right reasons, and many aren't even real christians, they use the beliefs as a way to scam people.

            3. qwark profile image60
              qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              2 thumbs up China!!!

              Qwark

              1. profile image0
                just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Qwark, you can't be serious. Two thumbs up? The guy didn't make a valid point. And for all we know his' visits' were probably to get the names of people for a communist government to either watch, or persecute. Don't encourage prejudice to someone who lives is a country that freely persecutes people whose beliefs don't fit the party line. We disagree, sometimes vehemently, but at the end of the day that was all it was. A disagreement. People in China can eally pay with their lives.

                1. qwark profile image60
                  qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Curious:
                  if I gave him thumbs up, it was after reading and digesting what he offered.
                  I'm not perfect. Just like everyone in the forums. all I can do is offer opinion.
                  Life would be boring if we all agreed all the time.
                  Thanks for the comeback! smile:
                  Qwark

                2. profile image0
                  china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh for goodness sake grow up and get a life ! I have just got back from Beihai where a couple of Baptist churches are going full belt every evening, in the main street here in Guilin there is at least one christian church, Taoists practice religious ceremonies in the street to cleanse or bless the new buildings and roads etc, Buddhist temples hold their services all over China.

                  As China relaxes its restrictions the US increases theirs - You are the only ones with an over-active Homeland security and 25% of the world's prison population !

    2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      To Gamergirl, you said:

      "I'm guessing from your response that unless I agree with you that only Christianity has made leaps and bounds of charity, goodwill, and general uplifting of mankind, you're going to pass over my responses entirely?"

      Did SpanStar actually say that only Christianity has made leaps and bounds of charity, goodwill, and general uplifting of mankind?  Or is that what you are inserting, and then making a point with?  I didn't get that at all, and thought he was just asking if people think Christians make a difference life?  What do you think?

  8. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Gamergirl,

      You don't have to agree with me at all-I truly do mean that because the only point I'm making here is while other people were doing all they can for themselves Christian were helping and trying to help when American was first discovered, by being the first school teachers in this land, helping those in need and it's been recorded time and time again where I don't see school books for non believers doing the same thing during the same time periods.

  9. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 6 years ago

    What about all of the religions that came before Christianity and their contributions to mankind as a whole?  There are far more recorded cases of people of all religions holding out their hands to give, opening their mouths to teach, and sharing what they can spare for the sake of simply helping another.  Why narrow to such a fine point as to acknowledge the contributions of those who identify as Christians in the face of thousands upon thousands of years of human kindness?

    1. PhoenixV profile image80
      PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The OP is about "American History" that's why.

  10. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Probably because if with the merciful efforts done by Christians they constantly remain under attack.  They have put up with those who bite the hand that feeds them.

    1. SpanStar profile image60
      SpanStarposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not talking about the needy but those who want to control Christians

  11. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Christianity is the scam on people from previous educated elites of the past. How ironic? lol

  12. frogdropping profile image86
    frogdroppingposted 6 years ago

    Couldn't say. None that I know of have made one to my life. I've been helped by a few people of late - a lot. None were Christian.

    I've helped many people out over the years - I was christened one.

    1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think the point is that it has helped the country as a whole in some very concrete undeniable ways and was the worldview that was held by many of the founding fathers.  This great country came out of people that were Christians, even though they left a lot of that out of their laws, they didn't believe in forcing it, and believed in freedom for all.  That came out of a group of people that are on record in history as being Christians.  Hospitals and the Universities, education and schools followed later.

      1. frogdropping profile image86
        frogdroppingposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I assume you've heard of Portugal. In that case - back in the early 1930's. António de Oliveira Salazar became the president of Portugal.

        I use the word 'became' lightly - because he forced his way in. He was a Catholic. He delivered some seemingly welcome reforms regarding the political and social welfare of the country.

        He also crushed the nation underfoot. Those that could leave did so. Eventually his authoritarian regime created one of the poorest countries in Europe.

        He used catholicism and its doctrines as his founding principles. In short - he ruined the nation.

        This man: Aristides De Sousa Mendes was also Catholic, Portuguese and lived during Salazars 'reign'. He helped thousands - the cost being (eventually) his life and that of his wife.

        Poles apart, same religion. So my opinion of whether christians make a difference in peoples lives is similar to the story of the these two men - it depends on their character.

        Being religious is not mutually exclusive with being righteous, honorable or even halfway decent. And neither does it denote any one individual or group as being helpful to those around them.

        1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
          oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I don't agree with the beliefs of Catholicism, and worry they stray too far from the Bible and words of Jesus and the apostles. 
          I appreciate you sharing your facts about Portugal, and that is unfortunate.

          Its still undeniable the amount of Christian good that has been done for America, which was the point of the OP.  I am not familiar with how ones catholic beliefs could ruin a whole nation, nor do I know how it could. 

          That said, it probably wasn't good decisions he made, obviously, but also, you can't back those decisions as being taught by Jesus.  You can't take away a person personal choices, and their freedoms and force them to align with all the teachings of Jesus.  In fact, Christianity addresses how people don't follow the teachings, yet claim to be religious.  Those kinds of people got the truest, harshest words from Jesus in the NT.  That is amazing, it wasn't for the worst sinners, it was for the "religious" that did wrong things, and had wrong motives, whose heart wasn't right.   

          My reading of the original post, was that he was just asking a question and talking about history. Thanks for sharing what you did though.

  13. qwark profile image60
    qwarkposted 6 years ago

    Egads!
    Why would anyone with an Oz of sense, want to "debate" religion?
    Debate requires argument. Why "argue" if there can be no winner?
    To debate "religion" would be an "exercise in futility!"
    Only a fool would participate.
    There are so many "fools!"
    Qwark

    1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Qwark, people are being lied about and put down pretty severely, and if the reasons turn out to be very poor reasons, then its a good thing to try and stop such negative behavior. 

      The OP didn't need people to respond in such ways as we saw from some on this board, to go after a religion like they did.  Its not a nonsensical thing, to want poor treatment of others to stop.  I think that is a very sensible thing, and something I hope hubpages would support.

  14. qwark profile image60
    qwarkposted 6 years ago

    I see homeless people sitting on the lawn of a very pretty church.
    The steeple rises high into the sky where afternoon breezes gently position a "weather cock" which indicates the direction of the wind.
    The homeless folks pay it no attention. They sit sharing what little food and drink they have and chatting about where there next "buck" is gonna come from so they can eat tomorrow.
    I wonder what that USELESS "steeple" and weather cock cost to construct and install? No doubt they were very expensive.
    I drive by and wonder why church prelates and planners, couldn't have used that wasted money better and make the lives of those sitting on the lawn, a little better.
    After all, the church would still function without it, just as well as it does with it.
    I'm sure that thought never entered their fatuous, misdirected, "money" oriented thinking.
    I visited vatican city many years ago and was flabbergasted at the overt oppulence being displayed. All-the-while beggars asking for handouts on the streets of Rome.
    Oh yes, christians make a difference in peoples lives. They offer lip service and live beyond "well," while others are poor and overtly suffering.
    Disgusting!
    Qwark

    1. PhoenixV profile image80
      PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I see homeless people sleeping at the Jesus house and eating at the downtown mission. Where were you ?

      1. qwark profile image60
        qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yep!
        Thats the "lip service" that is offered.
        An occassional meal and a bed.
        "Maybe" a blanket if it's cold.
        Religious "posturing" is alive and well!
        My expression of DISGUST for the farcical religious portrayal of magnanimous love and giving, worldwide, is obvious!
        Arrgghhhhh!
        Qwark sad:

        1. PhoenixV profile image80
          PhoenixVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          They have been donating food shelter and aid for centuries. I have eaten at the downtown mission. When you are hungry and someone feeds you for free, I wouldnt call that lip service. I didnt see you there.

    2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Qwark, I am not a Catholic, but before you go and put them down, did you know they feed and help a lot of people all the time?  They help abused women and children, etc.  What are you suggesting the church do more to help those poor people?  Even if they leveled their pretty church, how does that help the poor? 

      They are doing very very much, and so I am not understanding what your point is.  The catholic church actually continues to help in so many ways, how is that disgusting exactly?  Sure you can always find people living well, and others poor. All people of all worldviews do that.  My non catholic church does a LOT to help the poor in our area.  My boys donate a lot of their time every week to this.  I am not bragging, but the suggestion that there is disgust towards those that are ACTUALLY making a HUGE difference is just another way to put people down, and that seems just so wrong to me.  To those that are trying SO hard to make a big difference and getting it done despite how others talk about them.  We find opposite things to be disgusting I guess?

  15. qwark profile image60
    qwarkposted 6 years ago

    I just got back from dinner with friends.
    I've read all your responses.
    Firstly, you are only guessing when you mention anything this jesus alledgedly did or said. You "know" nothing about him.
    Secondly, vatican city is worth billions! I said BILLIONS!
    Thirdly a very inexpensive metal building could be used to worship this mythical god thing! Use the  massive amounts of $ needed to build these monstrous edifices to "nothing," to aid and assist the needy around the world!
    Fourthly, religion is a moneymaking business! Tax it like any other capitalistic corporation.
    I'm not going to waste time offering more reasons to create my disgust for the fallacy of religious good.
    qwark   sad:

  16. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    For those that seen poor people sitting on those pretty steps of the church then we can rest ensured that you've taken action and helped feed, cloth, those poor people since you believe the no body and especially the Christian aren't and can't do anything for these people right?

 
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