Should priests and nuns have a choice about remaining celibate or does it go against everything the Catholic religion stands for? If you think they should, do you think it would have an impact on the molestations?
Hi Libra. I'm not Catholic, but I'm curious. Is it simply tradition that holds them to the vows of celibacy; or does the Church feel that there is some scriptural imperative? I would think that if they allowed all people that felt God's calling, married or otherwise, to become priests or nuns you would certainly see a decrease in deviant behaviour. Just a thought from a non Catholic.
I think a child molester is who they are, it doesn't matter if they are in a church or not. The celibacy comes from being married to the church, thus being faithful, you are to be committed, if you can't do this, then it's not your calling.
Hi just_curious. I am catholic, but not practicing because of personal feelings in regard to the Church. I have wondered about this for some time. I believe the Church indeed feels it is a scriptural imperative. It has always been that way and I don't feel it will ever change.
I agree that maybe if this age-old ruling were not in existence, society would see a decrease in this behaviour.
Thanks for commenting.
I do not recall there being any call to celibacy for the Levite priest of the OT.
If I am wrong please correct me.
I think that celibacy is a catholic invention.
MAN MADE rules which are detrimental to the whole.
When we start examining all the dark corners of discussion concerning excusses for why and why not., we are taking our eyes off of the issue in question.
Man made rules ? What are they good for ?
Nothing that I have read requires the Levites to be sex free...S/Paul is the one who taught that a man or woman who wants/called to do gods work shouldn't be married (having sex) because one who is married is more concerned about pleasing the spouse than god...so one who is to do gods work should be "married" to god only.
I think you're hemming Paul in a little. He said he was unmarried, other apostles were not. I believe he said if you could remain unmarried that would be best. It was not a mandate. More like a suggestion.
This isn't true. Clerical celibacy wasn't imposed until after the monks of Cluny started to gain power and reform the Catholic Church after it had been corrupted and somewhat dissipated after Charlemagne's passing. It's a very interesting part of Christian history. There has always been a very strong monastic strain within the Christian church but it was understood at that time that celibacy was voluntarily practiced by the monks and nuns when they chose that life and not required of the clergy, although it was promoted as an ideal.
No. Since God hates sex, celibacy is required in order for Him to allow priests and nuns to be close to him, because sex is bad.
No sex is good. Between a committed relationship. But I was referring to what the catholic church requires, not my beliefs.
I agree that celibacy is required so nuns and priests can remain faithful to the church. However, I don't think God hates sex. He made man and woman to procreate.
Mans limited mind hates sex is more how it is.
In saying that many eastern philosophies advocate less sex to retain the yang energy. It is believed that when we use all our yang energy our physical life ceases to exist.
Perhaps Christianity refrained for the same reason way back in the day?
the molestations are a result of the crisis in the church caused by vatican II in 1969.
As for your question, being w/ God is a beautiful thing so being celibate is fine, because you are devoting to God who we all -if saved-will spend eternity w/ anyway, why not start now?
To answer part of your question - priests and nuns DO choose to be celibate. They are made very well aware of the requirements of their chosen vocation prior to making the lifetime commitment they eventually make.
A priest studies for nine years (counting a regular college experience and their time in major seminary). A religious (nun, sister, monk, brother) receives a minimum of three years of initial formation prior to making vows, which are then made and renewed for a period of one year at a time until the time they make their perpetual vows. Depending on the religious community, this can be anywhere from three to six years after the three year period of initial formation.
The misunderstanding about this stems from the confusion between the words celibacy and chastity. Celibacy is to remain unmarried and to therefore choose not to engage in sexual intimacy - since unmarried Christian people are not meant to engage in sexual intimacy. Chastity is fidelity to God in ANY chosen state of life. So, a vow of chastity can actually be taken by a married or unmarried individual. There are religious communities withing the Catholic Church that are made up of families. Their vows of chastity do not mean that the married couples do not engage in sexual intimacy. It means that they do so only with their spouse.
These things are taught to priests and religious very clearly and very deliberately prior to vows. So to answer the first part of your question, yes - a priest or nun SHOULD be able to CHOOSE celibacy. And if they choose after years of formation to pursue their vows or their ordination, they HAVE freely CHOSEN celibacy.
Thanks for the question!
I am a Catholic but there are some aspects that truly confound me. Celibacy in and of itself is a tall order, as humans are by nature sexual beings. But priests and nuns are asked to give up many things to pursue God's calling.
I can't picture the Church changing such a basic tenet.
On the other hand, the massive cover-up of the molestation -- from the Vatican on down -- is beyond comprehension.
It certainly weakens the credibility of the Church as a pinnacle of morality!
Oppression of desires, either sexual or otherwise, is a direct violation of human nature. In the end, it drives one insane or worse yet, to act out on others in a harmful way.
A prime example of religious doctrine being false.
Not if it is redirected as in Tai Chi or Ki chung. It has many benefits apparently.
I agree with you Penny. If it is redirected by your choice, it can probably have many benefits. I think though when a religion or any outside force tells you 'no, you can't do that' it is a recipe for trouble because you have to want to refrain.
Mysticism is a joke, not any better than religious dogma.
Depends if there are health benefits and longevity as a result. To some it may not be a joke.
Mysticism is defined- 1) any attempt to use the mind as a "reality" creating device rather than a reality integrating organism. 2) any attempt to recreate or alter reality through dishonesty, feelings, non sequiturs, or rationalizations. 3) any attempt to ignore, evade, contradict or fake reality. 4) any creation of problems where none exist.
What has that got to do with redirecting energy?
Creating false reality?
Supposed redirection of energy.
How so? When you have sexual energy, you can redirect it. Just as you can when you have angry energy. Go work out and redirect that angry energy. A more positive use of angry or like energy. Why is it different for sexual energy?
Because sexual release of endorphins are required. That sort of energy cannot be redirected anywhere. Satisfaction- the complete release of sexual energy is needed, otherwise it accumulates.
Thus, driving one mad or insane, or to harm to others.
Like I said depends, many think that about angry energy too and look at the results of undirected angry energy?
Any person who thinks that anger cannot be redirected, doesn't know anything about themselves, much less about Life in general.
Anger is an emotion, for which, can be controlled, and released at any other time, other than when it appears.
I think getitrite was being facetious about God hating sex.
I was trying to point out the absurdity in the crazy things that religions can dream up, and attempt to enforce.
Sorry about that, I was actually just joking about the sex thing. My off base sense of humor, people don't always get. But the thing I still believe is that a pedifile is a pedifile, no matter his job. If not, they would have consentual sex, with an adult.
True, but being a Catholic schoolgirl and being told "NO!" by the priests and nuns at St. Mary's (which definitely invites rebellion), being told "NO" as a condition of doing your job, or following your calling to God's service is a reasonable request.
I don't think God is being reasonable at all when He commands nuns and priests not to have sex. Of course, anyone can see that this is the psychotic hang-up of some ancient humans--thinking that there is something special about being a virgin.
Actually, a lot of priests and nuns aren't virgins, when they commit themselves to the church is when sex is suppose to stop. I don't agree with this, but that's their belief.
This is true, the nonvirgins have already tasted the forbidden fruit. That's where the problem begins. I think many are biting off more than they can chew.
Do you interpret the forbidden fruit as sex?
If it is, my husband is the best forbidden fruit I can think of. LOL
When referring to priests and nuns, yes. In my opinion is goes back to Adam and Eve and the apple. I just think it's more difficult for individuals who want to be a priest or a nun later on in life.
No, There are no commands telling a Person to be celibate. This came about due to many priests in past having divorce-wife usually got a portion from the divorce. The vatican if they will tell you the truth will have to verify that the lost too much money from divorces. So they implimented a guideline to be celebate. This again they misstated what Paul ment by being celibate like him.He treated women if you will read very much like muslim do-be quiet in church, if have question go ask your husband,etc-woman be servants to your husband, etc. Women you were made from his side to walk beside him not 3 steps behind, etc. Genesis-God commanded man and woman to marry and be FRUITFUL.Guess what this would alleviate much problems in the church. How can a priest in sin confess and pardon your sin? He can not only one on one relationship with Jesus(reason veil in temple torn from top to bottom when HE died(veil was approx. 18 plus inches thick so could not be man). He opened the Holies to us thru HIM not a priest. Try praying directly to HIM and see if you feel an intimacy that you never will with a confessional priest!
Being old is what I look forward too, with this aspect in mind. etc... For today what you reflect will be your tommorrow or tommorrows.
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I havn't found anything in the bible which says yes, so has the catholic church got a well documented history of covering up child abuse?
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