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Atheist Prayers Needed

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    just_curiousposted 5 years ago

    It occurred to me, since prayer is a powerful thing, a prayer from a confessed atheist would pack a pretty powerful punch. It could conceivably bring about the miracle we've all been in agreement we'd need, if we were to agree on anything.

    It would probably take more than one of you. In fairness to all religions, we'd need you to pray to just a general all encompassing idea of a Creator.

    I suggest something simple, like  let the sun come up tomorrow. I wouldn't think you'd want to try anything too difficult to start with, but I am open to suggestion.

    Please, if you do decide to participate, post your prayer (to those of you that don't know how it works it is not like a birthday wish. It can still come true if we know it).

    Good luck and let's all keep out fingers crossed.

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Believers keep saying that, yet the starving die daily as a result of those prayers.smile

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        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You are correct sir. Those who believe could certainly put their minds, and prayers, to better use during the serious moments of their day.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          They do, some here have prayed to Jesus to send their kids to Disneyland, and their prayers were answered, praise Jesus!!!

          Unfortunately, tens of thousands starved as a result of Jesus being far too busy making airline and hotel reservations. smile

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            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            please tell me you're joking about the first thing you said. That is quite sad someone would use faith for a vacation. Even sadder they would feel the need to share such a ridiculous notion.

            1. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry, but those are indeed the claims of believers right here on these forums. One would suspect it a joke, but those who made the claims were dead serious.

              Of course, many such claims about prayer have been made public here. Nothing new.

              Notice how dangerous religious beliefs can be? smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I'm truly sorry to hear that, although they sound more irritating than dangerous. I am beginning to get it though.

                1. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh no, it is extremely dangerous, far from just irritating. smile

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                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I hope you don't consider me dangerous too. I don't want to change anyone's opinion on the cosmic scheme of things.  I like everybody so far just the way that they are. Love to hear their thoughts. Ok, that may not apply to a few loose screws, but for the most part is honest.

    2. the pink umbrella profile image73
      the pink umbrellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      This is pretty condecending.

    3. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      @Just curious. I just feel off my chair from laughing so much. That's the funiest post I've seen for a long time. The tears are running down my face. Atheist prayer, indeed. How much? In dollars...

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        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you thank you. It looks like you, me, and two others have a sense of humor so far. Boy did I feel silly when I realized how seriously anyone would take such a ridiculous idea for a forum.

    4. Shahid Bukhari profile image61
      Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What do you know, what atheism is all about ...

  2. Cagsil profile image84
    Cagsilposted 5 years ago

    roll

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      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for posting Cagsil. I was pretty sure this one had a good chance of going straight to the unanswered forums category.

      1. Cagsil profile image84
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Usually, when foolishness is posted in the religion and beliefs forum threads, it is virtually impossible for it to go unanswered. lol lol

  3. 0
    AKA Winstonposted 5 years ago

    I would think the only prayer having a chance of fulfillment would be the one to the non-god of please, non-being, don't interfere in any way with reality. 

    Voila!

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      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for playing. That's a pretty bold prayer. I think there might be some disagreement between the camps as to if it comes true or not. I guess you'll have to make the call on that one. I'll trust your judgement.

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        AKA Winstonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        (That's a pretty bold prayer)

        Wow, that's creepy - it already came true - and I didn't even say it out loud, yet.  I guess that's proof that the non-being reads minds, too!

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          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Woohoo. We have our miracle. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear we can prove it. But that's ok. You've proven it works, we'll just have to aim a little higher on the next run.

    2. Cagsil profile image84
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol lol

  4. spookyfox profile image80
    spookyfoxposted 5 years ago

    Something easy. I'll pray for 3 days to get an ipod. I'll compare the results of 3 random days not praying to get an ipod and I'll tell you how it goes.

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      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Very nice idea. If you get one, please remember to post the picture as your evidence. I'll take your word for it, but I've been accused of being too trusting. It appears most everyone else is of a different mind set.

      1. the pink umbrella profile image73
        the pink umbrellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Wow, if there is a god, your wasting his time on ipods and wii games. Thats nice. Too right though, let those kids starve, let those wives get beaten, i need an ipad.

        1. Lady Wordsmith profile image82
          Lady Wordsmithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I think that spookyfox just meant to test his praying powers out first, with something like an iPod or a Wii because they're both inanimate objects.  You wouldn't really want someone to try out something so dangerous as a powerful atheist prayer on live women and children would you?  That would be irresponsible in the extreme, not to mention against said children's and wives' human rights.

          1. the pink umbrella profile image73
            the pink umbrellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            WHAT???? Ok, so when did us non believers become Animals?

            "You wouldn't really want someone to try out something so dangerous as a powerful atheist prayer on live women and children would you?  "

            What the tripple F is so "dangerous" about an athiest talking to god? That is the most rediculous thing i have ever heard of in my entire life, and ive been around for 27 years. That is alot of days walking around hearing some incredible crap.

            Against human rights? Well than everytime a christian prays for me, than that is against my human rights, and believe me, ive got one praying for me every day and it really burns my toast.

            Let me tell you something, if there is a god, any one of us could say whatever the hell we wanted into the sky. There is no "danger" that god is going to somehow listen to one of us praying for someone to die in an accident or something. I mean, unless you can explain to me the dangers of this man praying. You believe that he will pray and a small child will get eaten by accident or something in the process? Hes a non believer, hes not retarded. I think he can tell the difference between praying for peace and praying that the playground gets shot up. You really pissed me off lady word. Seriously, i hope im taking what you said the wrong way, because if not, the christian mind os more dangerous than i imagined.

            1. Lady Wordsmith profile image82
              Lady Wordsmithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Lmao!  Oh my word, you silly sausage Pink Umbrella!  My comment was made in a totally tongue-in-cheek manner.  You did indeed take what I said in completely the wrong way.  And I'm an atheist, by the way.  I don't believe in the power of prayer at all.

              That's incredible that I pissed you off so much, just because you didn't understand the 'tone' of my online voice.  I guess that's the danger of speaking without emoticons! 

              wink

            2. Lady Wordsmith profile image82
              Lady Wordsmithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              'I think he can tell the difference between praying for peace and praying that the playground gets shot up. '

              I just re-read this.  I'm afraid I don't know what on Earth you're talking about Pink Umbrella.  I don't remember saying a word that had anything to do with a playground getting shot up.  I really do think you got your knickers in a twist over ... well, nothing at all really.

              Also, why does it burn your toast that a believer prays for you every day?  If someone prays for you it's because they care, and because they believe they are doing something that will benefit you.  I'm an atheist, as I said earlier, but even I can see that someone praying for me is a well-meant and thoughtful gesture.  I take it in the spirit it was intended - the spirit of friendship and love.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I pray that god shows you the error of your ways, lifts the blinkers from your eyes and helps you to stop being so selfish and evil as to deny the one true god. wink

                Oh - and it looks as though pink umbrella was not responding to you at all. She accidentally quoted you, buty was replying to some one else.

                1. Lady Wordsmith profile image82
                  Lady Wordsmithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Yep, selfish and evil, that's me to a T, right there big_smile

                  Well, I'm very confused then.  I shall, from now on, ignore posts by Pink Umbrella, since they get me into trouble!

                  Peace to Pink Umbrella smile

                  Thanks Mark.

          2. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            OH MY GOSH. THIS WAS A JOKE. HOW DID IT GET OUT OF HAND? PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO UNPOST THIS FORUM. I PROMISE I'LL NEVER POST A JOKE AGAIN. AND I APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE WHO'S BEEN OFFENDED.

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              Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              all you've done is highlight how pointless praying is

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Oh. Good point. I should have prayed for an answer on how to unpost this forum.

                Anyway, it was a joke. Poorly thought out obviously. I promised myself I would apologize to anyone offended once it became clear my sense of humor had been misunderstood.. If you were insulted, please accept my apologies.

                1. Lady Wordsmith profile image82
                  Lady Wordsmithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't think you're alone in offending people smile  Obviously I have too!

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, the longer I post, the more obvious it becomes that some might have overly developed delicate sensibilities. It's a growing mystery.

                  2. aka-dj profile image79
                    aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Interesting thing, this "offence" thing.
                    I have NEVER offended anyone in the politics forum.
                    No-one has EVER offended me, in said forum.
                    Why is that?

                    Oh, maybe 'cause I don't get involved in that forum. big_smile

                    Maybe, just maybe, all those who have been offended in the religion forum will learn a lesson here.


                    But, I doubt it. I think they enjoy the conflict too much.  sad

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              AKA Winstonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              (I APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE WHO'S BEEN OFFENDED.)

              Just_Curious? 
              This is God. 
              Too late.

              Your option, though: pillar of salt or death by slingshot?

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                LOL. I hadn't come back in here because I was embarrassed when it was pointed out I had offended some people. Glad I did. You're hilarious. Bring on the salt. I deserve it.

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                  AKA Winstonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Waiter: One salty dog, no rocks, straight up.
                  God: No, you mean straight down.

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                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm drenched now. That was so not cool. Oh well, I suppose now that I've been punished I can go forth and try to sin no more. Thanks so much for being so big about what was apparently a lame joke. You're all right.

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      lovazaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I know what you mean, Spooky, it would be unnecessary to pray for an ipod because it's only common sense that certain things do not need to be prayed about.

  5. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago

    All cults (shortened word for culture) have allowed other humans to starve --or charge them this thing called money (paper currency, metallic rocks called gold, silver, etc) to purchase things that have been growing on this planet --according to evolution-- long before humans came on the scene.

    Show me a Atheist or the collective Atheism that is providing unlimited food/shelter to any human in need. Just one, please.

    Perhaps, just maybe, Atheists should collectively pray they would fully understand the humanism they crow about and become the "do-good" people they claim to (want to) be.

    Else, at least pray they can drop the selfishness, adopted by their former belief system and grow a pair.

    lol

    James.

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Aren't the prayers for Jesus to provide bread and fish not enough?

      The miracle of the five and seven loaves of bread and two fish.

      Looks like Jesus only did that as a show, considering he hasn't done anything like that for 2000 years.

      It was probably faked some how. lol

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        Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What Jesus is that and what beliefs?
        I think you DO get it, which is why you are still here presenting some crippled excuse for self righteousness.

        Who's blood did you wash yourself in to receive that absolution?

        Ah, humanism...

        lol

        James.

    2. spookyfox profile image80
      spookyfoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "Show me a Atheist or the collective Atheism that is providing unlimited food/shelter to any human in need. Just one, please."

      Atheists aren't a group of people in that way. Why would people gather for sharing a lack of a particular belief? Do non-street-racing-fans gather every week to specifically discuss non-street-racing issues?

      Most your posts are absurd and you generalize constantly, without being specific or clear. Being so broad and general sort of hides the fact that you don't really grasp some concepts well.

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        Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I see, so you also still cling to your sensationalist past. lol
        Why Am I Not Surprised!

        --You said: "Atheists aren't a group of people in that "way"...

        That "way" meaning they are a group of humans? Perhaps spread across the planet, but still a single or collective ideology/commonality, none-the-less. So, they are just as redundant as the theists, now aren't they?

        Thank you for observing most of my posts so closely, flattering. I shall have to do the same for you at some point.

        I am broad on purpose, as individuality --here on HP-- results in constant banning and banter. And the concept of your belief systems I get very well and still shake my head in amazement, the sheer stupidity of such "gametes populus" of self, selfishness --a complete disdain yet complete indulgence of your own humanism --to both destroy and satisfy/protect that humanism from none other than yourselves.

        Irony is not without a sense of humor. lol
        Thank you, enjoy your rejection.

        James

        1. spookyfox profile image80
          spookyfoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "That "way" meaning they are a group of humans? Perhaps spread across the planet, but still a single or collective ideology/commonality, none-the-less. So, they are just as redundant as the theists, now aren't they?"

          No.

          You managed to, either on purpose or not, avoid the point of my post completely. They don't have a collective ideology, that's the point, they lack a certain collective ideology which other people have. The word atheist only exists in contrast with the popularity of religion. Should I call myself an a-pop, because I don't listen to pop music? Would you define yourself by what you don't do or believe? Why do you group people based on negatives?

          It's fine talking in general, but you also need concrete examples for your posts to make at least some sense..

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            AKA Winstonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Spooky,

            I was thinking of a-going to the I'm-not-James-either a-rally this Saturday: I don't suppose you are a-going, too?  Maybe we could a-meet for a-coffee and a-Danish?

            1. spookyfox profile image80
              spookyfoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Sure! I will be not-attending anything else besides that, so I'll see you Saturday not between 00:00AM and 3:00 PM, nor from 4:00PM till 11:59PM.

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            Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            --They don't have a collective ideology

            Really: the defined term Atheist means one or many who conclude the belief (which is an ideology) that there is no g/God. The entire concept of Atheism is based solely on theism. It is the concept of self governing --a very whitewashed but coy form of humanism.

            So, either you do not understand what you are or you are lying (to yourself) to protect your humanism. Which is it? Atheism is no different than the former sensation (or any other string theory religion --of the combined duality : science, theology) once lived in passionately -- now despising that very shiny new and purposeful non-ideology you are in -- loathing the former and shamelessly using their techniques of hostility, fear, hodgepodge, etc? Bravo!

            As I posted once, Atheist are like teenagers...

            I do not define myself by pro or non objects. But all humanists define themselves by either what they are now, as opposed to what they were or what they are not as opposed to what they are --and more recently what they believe they are and/or can be.

            Still, the wheels on the bus go round and round.... lol

            If you cannot make sense of my posts, perhaps you should not read them. Else, find a translator who does.There are many Hubbers who do understand what I post.

            James.

            1. spookyfox profile image80
              spookyfoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The lack of belief in something is not the belief in the definite lack of that something. I don't deffinitely believe there are absolutely no unicorns, I just assume there aren't because I have no reason to do the oposite.

              I the concept of the Earth being round based solely on the flat Earth model? All the possible geometrical shapes the earth could have is no basis for it to be the way it is; the same way that you yourself being an atheist towards countless gods doesn't define you in a particular group of believing in the non-existence of Zeus, Mythra, Horus, etc.

              Are you incapable of using concrete examples to expand your upon points?

              1. 0
                Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What concrete examples would you prefer, based on your statement:



                The lack of belief is equal to the much of belief --as both expressed, by application --pro or con. Therefore, atheist and theist are identical in nature. Especially with examples like this --a perfect cypher of humanism!!
                Your very admission provides an example --although not concrete-- that atheism is an erratic sensationalist belief system.

                How can anyone provide concrete when there is no place to pour it?

                neutral

                James

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                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  That is the most on the mark post I have seen all night. Good thoughts.

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                    Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank You Curious.

                2. spookyfox profile image80
                  spookyfoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  "The lack of belief is equal to the much of belief --as both expressed, by application --pro or con. Therefore, atheist and theist are identical in nature."

                  Saying something over and over with different words doesn't make it true. It seems you're so focused on lack of proof, that you think I should believe you just because you state that something is the way you say.

                  The belief in something motivates, whether it's the belief in something positive or negative. And you will find gatherings of people who share that belief, or who march against something, etc.

                  The lack of belief is more passive. As I pointed out in the examples you keep ignoring, you don't see gatherings to celebrate the sharing of a particular disbelief.

                  I'll give you one more example to ignore:
                  If you had a person who lived in relative isolation from everything related to outer-space travel, they'd have no particular reason to believe or disbelief the moon-landing. But by default they'd not believe in it. Even if someone came along and just told them, they might remain skeptical, which would be understandable. Such is the lack of belief.

                  On the other hand, let's take someone who has been alive during such event, and has seen it televised, and is convinced that it was fake, a hoax. Such is the believe in the lack of something.

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                    Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    More passive than? Sorry, I am not buying that.
                    All beliefs pro or con are equally passive, active, passive-aggressive, deniable, sensible, logical, useful, purposeful and full of it as the other.


                    Well, since you are using semantics now, versus concrete examples, as you requested [of me], I will reply semantic. Fair enough?

                    The gathering of disbelief -with regard to atheism v theology: Hubpages forums, the Church of Atheism, Richard Dawkins and many more. [Sorry, only had a few concrete examples]. So, though not as organized and organic as theologies, Atheism --still a by-product of theism-- is still a gathering of persons remotely or in-room regarding the polar belief in question.

                    Now, with your induction of mechanics, it further adds semantic aloofness to the argument, as mechanics are influential and gather countless masses pro and con to it. So, nothing can be verified. The point however, from your own words --yet again-- they are identical in nature and equal in expression (as noted by both watching the same event via a third party mechanic) and concluding hoax or otherwise.

                    James

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                    lovazaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I think belief depends upon the individual and a group of people.  However, a group can easily pursuade someone that doesn't have a belief...no one can force anybody to actually believe in something unless they experience something phenomenal.  To believe in something makes us wake up in the morning because we KNOW that the sun will rise, unless the Universe decides to make a change.  There will always be debates between people on whether or not to have a belief.  For me, in my personal experience, belief does NOT have to have proof, it a feeling that is aquired.  And how I acquired that feeling is through faith, faith in which makes me breath each passing day.

            2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              James, I completely understand what you post. Very good points.

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                Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Thank You Courage.

  6. azimimpossible profile image72
    azimimpossibleposted 5 years ago

    It is important to thank one and only God who created the world.We do not exist by chance but it is the choice of one God.Unbelievers don't disgrace the position of that mighty God.They will get no reward at end.

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Perhaps, that is because some have acknowledged that most reward/punishment schemes and systems are antiquated and do not work or serve any purpose, for the most part.

      Many do not waste their time trying to fulfill these ridiculous schemes and systems but instead look to enrich their lives, instead. smile

      1. azimimpossible profile image72
        azimimpossibleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Same implements to you too.Just another wannabe trying to do something different from the world and trying to get people attention.The positive message positive.Wrong concept sadly...smile

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        AKA Winstonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        (Perhaps, that is because some have acknowledged that most reward/punishment schemes and systems are antiquated and do not work or serve any purpose, for the most part.)

        Actually, B, psychological studies show that the most powerful system to modify behavior is intermittant positive feedback.

        In other words, leaving heaven or hell as a crapshoot should work better than a strict reward/punishment system.  LoL.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I would agree, but I'm not sure if this is the same thing as a reward-punishment system. It seems to me more like engagement.



          LOL! Good point! smile

    2. the pink umbrella profile image73
      the pink umbrellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      i dont live my life for a heavenly food pellet at the end of the maze.

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      AKA Winstonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      (It is important to thank one and only God who created the world)

      Spoken like a true witch doctor. 

      But I have a better idea.  Why don't we all hold hands, sing Kumbaya, and exorcise 'ol Satan right off the planet, and then we'd have nothing left on Earth but Christian zombies chanting endless hossanas, a Holy Films, Inc. remake of Dawn of the Won't-Ever-Be-Dead.

      We'll make enough in overseas release rights to cover the costs of the gold streets and the 10 billion harps.

      1. azimimpossible profile image72
        azimimpossibleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Nice reply:)smilesmile

  7. skyfire profile image73
    skyfireposted 5 years ago

    So you're going to make pink invisible unicorn stuff and ask others to disapprove it ? and keep on with rhetoric by turning another question of ' you made PIU' to those who disagree with you ? Even in that case, burden of proof is still on you. If you or believers didn't made that up then why it's hard to prove it ? afterall burden of proof is not so worst stance for those who have proof in pocket eh ?

    1. 0
      Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sky,
      I didn't make "it" up.
      not the belief or disbelief.

      Yet, apparently that is what is being asked of me -to make it up.
      Yet, I was requesting a "non-believer" to provide this proof they claim to have. And the "believing" apart from rhetoric, books, etc.

      As for those who disagree, both sides do lol the theist and atheist.

      If I make something up, I would certainly back it up with valid expressions, not pseudo flip-the-script narcissism.

      Me having proof does you no good. Either of you.
      That is what I find HYSTERICAL!

      But nice try on flipping-the-script. Enjoy your life.
      smile
      James.

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        AKA Winstonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        @Twenty One Days, aka James
        (Me having proof does you no good)

        Of course not, as proof is simply that which is presented to convince the jury to accept your argument as a valid one - proof only coincidentally applies to reality, i.e., it is an accident when proof and reality collide, because proof is not meant to prove reality but to elicit agreement.

        So, no I cannot prove nor disprove that god exists.  I can, though, explain rationally and objectively why god cannot exist, and the key term to understand is the unambiguous definition of "exist".

        For the following presentation, exist is defined as physical presence, that which has shape and location.

        Now, either god fits this definition and is a physical presence with shape and location and therefore exists or god does not fit this definition and is only a concept without shape or location and does not exist.  God either exists or does not exist by definition, not by faith or opinion.  Either god is like a chair, a physcial object with shape and spatial separation from all other objects, or god is like space itself, a formless void with no spatial separation,  i.e., nothing.

        If there is no physical object god, there is nothing.

        End of discussion.

        1. 0
          Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I do understand what you're applying, Winston.
          And in that measure I agree.
          There is no object entity -like a chair, bottle, etc.
          But an interesting condition not often applied is: what if that object -being physical- is the entire universe and not a singular unit hovering on a cloud with a bolt of lightning in its hand.

          James.

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            AKA Winstonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Twenty One Day, aka James.

            (what if that object -being physical- is the entire universe and not a singular unit hovering on a cloud with a bolt of lightning in its hand.)

            One problem is that space is nothing, and the normally expressed concept of universe is all of space and matter, so there is no single entity we can point to as "the universe".  The concept of universe then fails the exist definition.  One could claim that god is all of matter, (somewhat like pantheism) but then that would mean that matter itself would be eternal and no creation could have occured. 

            What would then be the point - we may as well go all-out into pantheism and simply use a synonym for god instead of a definition: god=nature.  Why use the word "god" at all?

            The idea most have when utilizing the term "god" is of a motivated actor, a self-aware consciousness, which is then no more than a subjectively-held belief system.  Anthropomorphism is applied to this concept in order to explain mysteries and the unknown.

            It is a most human activity to try to find answers and think in terms of agents and causes - even if we have to make up the agents and assume their motivations are the same as ours.  :-)

            This doesn't make us bad people - but it does mean we are gullible at times.

          2. spookyfox profile image80
            spookyfoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            What if the whole universe was god? You're saying what if god's physical presence is actually the Universe, right?

            Wouldn't that be like saying, what if an object, is shaped like a chair, serves the function of a chair, but we'll also call it a cat?

            If God is the Universe itself, where's the need for god? God is supposed to be previous to the Universe to be able to create it, if god is the Universe, it means god created himself, and being the Universe, the Universe created itself. Doesn't this defeat the purpose of god as a cause of all things?

            1. 0
              Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If God is the Universe itself, where's the need for god?


              There isn't a need --that's the whole point.
              there is the humanistic desire to have such a need, and also a desire to counter that alternate desire --an anti-need. But both still a need.

  8. skyfire profile image73
    skyfireposted 5 years ago

    Oh it's not at all hysterical if you dig it more deeply. It does make difference to many of us. Politics, society, marriage, laws,input to domains in science and many other patterns that humans adopted by assuming 'proof' will change. So yes, YOU proving this stuff is going to make a lot of difference. But if You assumed this stuff and forced onto others and changed the way humans are living over time will surely create hysteria, chaos and clashes. So you got the flipping-script ?  wink

    1. 0
      Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ...which YOU --both sides of the redundancy-- are proliferating endlessly! But, its "important" to you, yes. It is so important that it is all irrelevant -science, religion, peace, war, chaos, marriage, politics, laws...

      The proof both of you are looking for isn`t there and you`re never going to find it using your present methods of equation, mechanics, sensation. So either enjoy the finite-infinite duality on the roof of Quality (until it caves in) and don`t ask me to provide my proof, or a. provide the proof you both have (parody here?!) or b. jump off the roof and I`ll gladly show you.

      Thanks again,
      Enjoy your life. smile

  9. skyfire profile image73
    skyfireposted 5 years ago

    Not exactly. One group is making personal interpretations of each other's or ancestors observation and another group is only discarding it. I don't see it going endlessly, because many wild wet claims of one holy side are trashed over a period of time. So this will definitely end if one group stops connecting their part of fantasy to the irrelevant areas.


    Okay.


    That was mean one - are you reading baptist church newsletter lately ? hmm

    1. 0
      Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ??

  10. skyfire profile image73
    skyfireposted 5 years ago

    lol. this is what most baptist preachers usually ask when someone questions them for proof.

  11. Pierre Savoie profile image60
    Pierre Savoieposted 5 years ago

    Here's my Atheist prayer:

    Oh, hydrogen, which art just about everywhere in the universe,
    Hallowed be thy gravity.
    Thy nuclei fused, thy big atoms were formed,
    In the sun and then expelled,
    Give us this day or at any time in the next several billion years,
    Just enough carbon to make amino acids,
    And keep out that nasty UV light somehow once it's not needed,
    But get life going totally at random,
    For thine is the power, the ability to make just about anything else,
    Sooner or later,
    Logoff.

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      very very nice. Since pcinix handed out a prize for best crazy theist response, I guess this thread should have a prize too. Some we were funnier than yours, but yours is probably the most appropriate.

      Check with the front desk. We'll leave the prize there for pick up.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I tried and tried and could not generate enough passion to write an atheist prayer. I became such a  unoptimistic crump and so pessimistic, I had to put in down.

        You win on this curious, atheist don’t have a prayer, but either dose one way to God

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Aw castle.I am so sorry. That is such a sad story I would have given you the prize for best prayer just to make you feel better, but some guy with a french sounding name already won it.

          I'll be honest with you, I was somewhat surprised to find that most atheists don't have a sense of humor. I would never have guessed any of them would have taken this thread seriously. I was a little embarrassed when it got through my thick head. Too late.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I don't know how you can win a contest when the judges are at both extreme ends of the poles.

            Atheists do have a sense of humor, but they didn't have prayer that you can herd cats by.

            You can herd blind sheep by prayer

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Really? I wouldn't think that would be safe. Herding blind sheep.

          2. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Perhaps your thread was simply not funny?

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              you're kidding? Come on, now that you're ignostic you can lighten up a little. You honestly don't see the humor? I was rolling on the floor at aka winston. Beelzedad too, until it became clear that he was serious. I did feel truly bad about upsetting pink umbrella.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I need to lighten up? OK How funny. lol

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No, seriously. Was it that offensive? Now I feel awful about it again. When aka came back as God and ' punished' me, I assumed I had misunderstood and everything was cool. Apparently not.

                  I do not get this place. Well, if you were among those offended, I apologize, but I just don't get anyone being offended by something they don't believe in.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Not offended - I just find you funny. Lighten up - your statements and beliefs are very funny. I thought you wanted a laugh?

                    Well - I am laughing. lol

                2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  just_curious

                  Do you not agree on...

                  Science without Religion is lame, Religion without Science is blind

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    To be honest castle, I'm scared to say. Every time I post in this place I offend someone.

                  2. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Ok castle, I can answer you now. Apparently that wasn't Big Brother watching. I guess I could agree with that statement. I never really thought about it.

                  3. Pierre Savoie profile image60
                    Pierre Savoieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    We don't need religion for anything.  Let's get our minds out of the Shepherd Centuries and show some real human evolution.

  12. Pierre Savoie profile image60
    Pierre Savoieposted 5 years ago

    You talk about abstract things like a "tree of life" that has "more than one branch".   We as scientists are prepared to believe there is another way of doing things, but every air-filled mysticist who comes along talking about "another way of knowing things" has utterly failed to prove what they say.
    If the body could produce enough B12 from the bacteria within (are they the RIGHT types of bacteria, though?  And are they getting the cobalt atoms which are at the center of every B12???  From where??)  The fact that you DO use vitamin supplements shows veganism is not naturally sustainable.  Stop that nonsense, accept meat.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes being an artist and pioneer, I enjoy mystic term or metaphor for the great unknowns.

      I do know first hand what I am talking about because I own an eco village in Belize and the area is a hot zone for people living over 100 years old. The way western society produces’ meat is a crime and I not dumb enough,  like a herd of cattle to allow it, for my own life sake and I plan to have sex at age 100.

      Enjoy your veal and fried chicken

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Keep taking the vitamin supplements. wink

        Own a eco village huh? lol

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It's a good idea for people over age 50 to take a wide range of supplement, if you’re on the run.

          There is only one legal eco village in Canada, so, four years ago I bought land and gave some cob building classes. This year the houses and land just went up in price 5 times. I moved all my big investment to the third world, and then swing back to Canada to join my daughter and son in law new art business partnership.

          Soon enough I will laugh my way to the bank again and always stay healthy, for the sake of happiness.

          What's your big dealio, Mark?

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No big dealios - sorry. I am not that enamored of money. I only go make it when I need it.

            Glad to hear money makes you happy though. I have never found that - only that a lack of it can make you unhappy.

            Where is this eco village in Canada? I would love to write about it for one of my blogs.

            I am healthy and happy mostly. But - I do not choose to live in the third world and I eat a high protein diet - macro-biotic because the French are extremely proud of their food and I have access to a wide range of in-season foods and meats that are grown locally.

            I am strong and fit and have never needed to take supplements, but I may change my tune - I am 50 this year. We shall see - my dad is 74 and my granddad is 97 this year so we tend to be long lived in my family. Grand dad is losing his marbles now though. sad

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              OUR Ecovillage is an intentional, permaculture based, sustainable community on Vancouver Island, Canada offering organic gardening, local food, natural building and green building ...

              A great place and beautiful people at our eco village

              www.ourecovillage.org

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Awesome. Thanks - drop me a line detailing how much money you made from this and I will write you up on my property investment blog.

                Love it.

                "not for profit"
                "sustainable land management"
                "ethical investment"
                "living example of sustainability"

                Now 'splain to me how flying 4,000 miles 4 or 5 times a year since moving your investments to the third world fits with the catch phrases that have enabled you to "laugh all the way to the bank." sad

                Or did you not know that flying in planes is not environmentally friendly?

                Or do you walk?

                Is that part of the 99% of knowledge that I am too stoopid and ignorant to understand - but you understand just fine and call "spiritual." sad

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I think a better way of thinking to lead you as spiritual being first, blending science, rather than joining a religious exclusive clubs. I don't feel most religious club their true love and one for all and all for one.

                  I am much guiltier than most for flying worldwide doing my work for 36 years, yet changing most of that. Belize the general idea is to minimize and simplified life and rules. Flying to Belize is not much further than flying across America and its design for low cost winter houses or for retire for now. Once you’re in Belize you can travel Centro America by a much lower cost buses trips and less distance than traveling across the USA. I recommend for people to open up their minds by traveling a different country every year.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And I recommend that you cease the destruction of our planet in your selfish pursuit of money and experience, because this does not fit in with the love you claim. I also recommend that you drop this nonsense of 99% esoteric "spirituality" that causes you to be so blind to reality.

                    You are not a "spiritual" being. You are a typical selfish human being in the pursuit of money, experience and power. You do not seem to have anything to teach me either. How odd that you claim you do - and it is coincidentally something I cannot see - because I am not as "open minded" as you are I assume? Sound familiar? wink

  13. superwags profile image82
    superwagsposted 5 years ago

    As a fundamentalsit pastafarian, my prayers must be pretty powerful too;

    "Our father, who art in ragu, meatballs in tom sauce. Thy pasta done, you will be yum, on plate with a twist of pepper."

    All hail his mightiness the FSM!!! RAmen!

  14. Pierre Savoie profile image60
    Pierre Savoieposted 5 years ago

    That's an inspiring story!  Praise Nothing!

    1. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yep.  That's the point. big_smile

  15. Scarlet Henderson profile image60
    Scarlet Hendersonposted 5 years ago

    I was once a "religious person" who wanted so much to believe in it all and be a part of this thing that everybody else was a part of. I wanted to know more and went so far as to take theology classes at the college level, become an ordained minister and for quite some time was in a relationship with a former priest turned theology professor and attended his Catholic parish, although I did not convert and had no intentions of ever doing so. Over time, the skepticism I'd always had from childhood grew and so did my scientific and logical mind and none of it made any sense to me and I just let it all go and stopped trying to force myself into a mindset that went against the grain of my thinking. At that point, I let it go and as I wrestled with it all, I wrote this poem. It's an atheist/agnostic reply to the poem, "I Heard the Bells" by Longfellow:

    "The Bells Still Toll" by Scarlet Henderson

    I walked along a snowy street
    My heart as heavy as my feet
    My burdened soul world-weary old
    No peace on earth
    Good will to men

    I gazed upon the clouded sky
    And felt the earth beneath me sigh
    I raised my head and then I said
    Where's peace on earth
    Good will to men

    I fell away from God's good grace
    For I had lost my trust and faith
    I felt deceived could not believe
    In peace on earth
    Good will to men

    So long I've fought an inner war
    With He that sees through Heaven's door
    With teary eyes He hears no cries
    For peace on earth
    Good will to men

    And though I thought that He must prove
    His power here on earth's unmoved
    I braved the cold and bared my soul
    Found peace on earth
    Good will to men

    I railed against His grace and love
    Saw not the light that shone above
    Illuminates and does create
    Sweet peace on earth
    Good will to men

    Until mankind finds in its heart
    The gifts that loving souls impart
    The bells won't cease their sweet release
    Of peace on earth
    Good will to men

    I heard the bells toll loud and long
    With tintinnabulation strong
    Their echoed sound of love abounds
    With peace on earth
    Good will to men

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's an atheist/agnostic reply to the poem

      Sounds great to me, but I am not the judge.

      Hey,  j_c what do you think?

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Oh my gosh. That's beautiful. Truly. Although we've already passed out a prize, we will have to find something to award for that post.

    2. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hi. I just read your post. Absolutely beautiful. I get your stand completely. Thanks for sharing.

  16. toddwertz profile image60
    toddwertzposted 5 years ago

    I wonder how atheists get their strength in times of their weaknesses?In times of trials which could lose their hopes, how could they win?

  17. shelly_ramasocky profile image61
    shelly_ramasockyposted 5 years ago

    WOW did you ask for prayers or a bunch of argument and judgement! I was raised catholic, but seek my own truth! Whatever resonates well with me in my life! That is my suggestion to all! I have found many beautiful atheist prayers in my research and if you contact me I'd be happy to share the links! I have also written a hub on the topic!

 
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