jump to last post 1-32 of 32 discussions (262 posts)

Hell and Eternal Damnation - The Threat

  1. Beelzedad profile image60
    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago

    I have been threatened, along with others, with eternal damnation from many believers here. They claim they are not threatening me, yet by definition, they most certainly are threatening, even though they are just repeating their beliefs based on their scriptures, or at least, that's what they would like us to believe.

    I could just as easily read the words from any number of sources of hate speech and focus it on a member here, and it most likely will get me banned.

    My question is this, should we report these believers to the admins of Hubpages as threats?

    Would the admins take it seriously considering lesser threats and other innocuous comments have had members here banned?

    smile

    1. Titen-Sxull profile image94
      Titen-Sxullposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't take threats of Hell seriously in the slightest, any more than I'd take a threat seriously that if I don't worship the Goblin Prince (Jesus) the Goblin King (God) will whisk me away to be tortured. Fictional after-life punishments don't scare me in the slightest.

    2. Greek One profile image80
      Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Don't worry B.

      I'll get you into Heaven.....


      for a price

      1. Daniel Carter profile image91
        Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I can loan you 30 pieces.....


        for a price....

      2. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Wait a minute, is this similar to the deal you're striking with Mark? smile

        1. Greek One profile image80
          Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          yes it is.. but I only have room for 1 to get in on my coattails... so hurry and send the $$

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Still waiting on the $457 you owe dude. sad

            1. Greek One profile image80
              Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              what?

              You didnt get it yet??

              I sent it direct from my bank account in Cairo

      3. Julie2 profile image78
        Julie2posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Oh my, you are to much. I love it! lol

    3. pennyofheaven profile image83
      pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That is entirely your choice.

      Whatever one threatens another with directly or indirectly is regulated if not by the moderators but by the natural laws that exist.

      Christians or believers especially should be aware of reaping what they sow.

      For every cause there is an effect whether we believe it or not.

    4. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      they can't see how hateful they are. Someone on my facebook wrote put a link about end-times on their page.  I made a comment about how that's just a way of drumming fear into people & even the cults do it.  She replied that the only ones that fear are those on the wrong side.  Then she deleted the comments before I could reply.  She lives in her indoctrinated bubble.  She is fearful of hell for sure.

      1. ediggity profile image60
        ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        How was her comment. "She replied that the only ones that fear are those on the wrong side." any more "hateful" than yours, "that's just a way of drumming fear into people & even the cults do it."?

        I just see two different opinions.  hmm

        1. 0
          Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          in her opinion, I've been deceived by the devil.

          1. pennyofheaven profile image83
            pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Opinions are just that, opinions. You don't believe in the devil, her opinions cannot change that.

    5. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      if it's hate speech, then report it.  I reported a git that wrote a hate poem about me to support their religion. Dunno if they got banned for a few days or not.

      I know I wasn't over-reacting, as others commenting on how hateful this religionist was

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Nah, I know it's hate speech, and I know it's very childish, immature and irresponsible for those who perpetuate those petty threats to everyone who doesn't share their beliefs.

        I feel sorry for them and forgive them, for they know not what they do. smile

    6. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Naw Beelze:
      I've occassionally said: "Damn you! Go to hell!"
      Consider the source, chuckle, flip 'im a bird and walk away! lol
      You know the old quip: "sticks and stones may break my bones...etc..
      Relax, have a warm cuppa cocoa, sit back and watch a good MMA fight (just to get loosened up) and fall asleep......zzzzzzzzzz
      When ya wake up it'll be a brand new world....smile:
      Qwark

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, but that's just not my style. smile

        1. qwark profile image60
          qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ok Beelz:
          Then just keep things in proper perspective. Don't be so sensitive.
          Tellin' ya to be damned and go to hell is not an "earth shaker."
          smile:
          Qwark

          1. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            What are you talking about? I never said I was sensitive, it is just a topic for discussion and it was in perspective.

            1. qwark profile image60
              qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Beelze:
              lolol...look at your response to me!
              My goodness! There ya go getting "sensitive" again..smile:
              Now lets get serious. why would ya want to "report" a responder for tellin' ya: "damn you... go to hell!?"
              ok, ok it was a topic for discussion.
              No. I would never let any "responder" upset me to the point of reporting him just because he "damned" me and told me to go to hell.
              There are reasons I would, but not for that.
              Yer cocoa's getting cold Beelze, microwave time...smile:
              Qwark

    7. 0
      zampanoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Would you be in need of some kind of psychological comfort ?
      Or support ?
      Don't you think you should prepare your soul to its announced doom ?
      Anyways, you can't controll nothing, or else you'll be controlling everything. And that is not a bargain.
      So, we have religious, fascists, left wingers, fanatic believers, fanatic non believers... jokers...
      That's wealth man.
      hehehe

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Just a shoulder to cry on should be sufficient.



        I have no soul, neither do you. smile

        1. 0
          zampanoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well, thank you for the information.
          All my life I've been doubting, but now, I'm fixed.
          I have no soul.
          And now there's two, needing a shoulder to cry upon...
          Snif... neutral
          I think that now, the most difficult part for me, is trying to convince my dog he has no soul either.
          Because he believes he's got a soul.
          And with that, one of the thickest subjects of conversation between us (me and my dog), just disappears...
          Ain't that sad ?

          1. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Is that what your dog told you? I'm impressed. But, my question at this point is, did you learn his language or he yours? smile

    8. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
      Mikel G Robertsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      LMAO...

    9. content profile image77
      contentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't put too much stock in it. They are coming from a place of fear and there is no true strength in fear.  If they want to think I'm going to hell then I won't stop them from believing it.  I feel they can believe whatever they want to.  It doesn't mean that it has any effect on the truth or my reality, so I'm not going to give any power to it by getting worked up over it.

      What you resist persists.  Don't resist them, don't give any thought to them and eventually they will go away.

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Agreed, and well said. It would interesting to note that if this were some hundreds of years ago, Christians would have taken action with their threats by placing us on stakes and watching with glee as the flames licked higher.

        Good thing they no longer have that option and their words are just empty chaff.

        Of course, the fact that they no longer have that option does not mean they probably wish they did. smile

    10. Dave Mathews profile image59
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      First it is not you your physical being that is in danger of damnation it is your spiritual being that is in danger, and it is in danger because you choose to not accept that there is a God.
      Second it is not we the believers who will exact the damnation of your spirit, but the God that you refuse to acknowledge.

      You have every right to believe or not believe but as a believer we have an obligation to try and change your point of view, just as you do with us.

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, but the threats are here on earth and are real, while spirits are not real as they violate the physical laws of universe. So, in that respect, it is a threat on my physical being because it is one physical being threatening another.



        So what? You don't accept buckets of various gods that threaten our afterlife, too. Hence, your point is moot as we both don't accept those same gods.



        Then, it is not your right to threaten me, is it?



        I have no obligation to change your point of view. And, the fact that you believe you do have an obligation is one of the reasons your faith starts conflict and wars. smile

    11. Dave Mathews profile image59
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Please quote the exact threat verbatum so that it can be judged on its own merit, rather than we the readers having to accept your word for this.

    12. 61
      peter v greenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Beelzedad: I just discovered this forum. I have been living in a parallel universe, trying to address the same issue as you - being threatened by someone who appears to be religious, but denies they are threatening, when I sought to question and discuss his views on right and wrong.
      Look at
      http://superconsciousmedia.com/2010/12/ … and-wrong/
      He told me I had to forgive myself for doing that, but never explained why. Start by reading the last response from me. When he stopped replying, I commented on another page of his:
      http://superconsciousmedia.com/2010/11/ … dichotomy/
      Again, the last post is by me. He has fallen silent.

  2. 0
    just_curiousposted 5 years ago

    I haven't been here long, so maybe my opinion is out of line, but I think you have a valid point. Hate is hate and not conducive to a healthy discussion. If people can't control themselves, maybe they need to be controlled by others.

  3. optimus grimlock profile image61
    optimus grimlockposted 5 years ago

    when you tell on some one we all loose lol

  4. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    "I have been threatened, along with others, with eternal damnation from many believers here."
    My best friend who died just recently from Cancer, by definition of his Christianity forever threatened me
    with eternal damnation since I am not a
    Christian. He was a great, guy an angel.
    I didn't hold it against him and it didn't affect our friendship. I'm not a
    fascist. He can have his opinion. And in any case now, where he is, he knows one way or the other.

  5. frogdropping profile image85
    frogdroppingposted 5 years ago

    If you feel affronted Beelzedad then report. 

    That said - the forum rule that's the most pertinent here is:

    Making Personal Attacks: debate and disagreements on points of substance are all right, but personal attacks, petty bickering, and thread hijacking will be dealt with swiftly.

    If anything comes within the above it should be dealt with - the foundation is irrelevant. Repeatedly telling someone they're going to burn in hell (however it's delivered) is unpleasant and wishing a negative on another.

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm okay. I understand the reasons behind this issue, however our believer friends deny it and believe I would be falsely accusing them if I reported them for making such threats.

      I was more curious as to the state of the threat itself, if in fact it had an validity or not as threat.



      Many thanks, frogdropping! smile

      1. frogdropping profile image85
        frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You're welcome.

        It doesn't matter how the insult was delivered - if it's there, it's there.

        It's like this (huh?!) -

        'Whatever - you're a worthless piece of .... ' 

        'Well sure go on with yourself, whatever, fine. It's hardly my problem if you behave like a worthless piece of .... You have a nice day now.' 

        Both of the above (imagined of course, examples and all that) mean the same.

  6. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    "I was more curious as to the state of the threat itself, if in fact it had an validity or not as threat." Not valid unless actual physical harm. On another level it is conditional exploitation.

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Good point. If I'm dead, then how can anyone impose physical harm on me?

      I'm assuming though the reference to the threat would be towards my everlasting soul. smile

      1. Julie2 profile image78
        Julie2posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No More Bullying Please! sad

        You can always ride the bus to hell with me. Is it a bus that they send now?! lol

        1. Greek One profile image80
          Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Just take the train to Detroit and hang a left...

          http://www.ehow.com/how_4718778_hell-michigan.html

          1. Julie2 profile image78
            Julie2posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            WOW! That article is too funny.

  7. ediggity profile image60
    ediggityposted 5 years ago

    It doesn't seem like your claim meets the definition of the word threat, but if it hurts your feelings that much go ahead and report it.
    smile

    Merriam Webster

    1threat
    noun \ˈthret\
    Definition of THREAT
    1
    : an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage
    2
    : one that threatens
    3
    : an indication of something impending <the sky held a threat of rain>

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Like I said above, and I'll repeat myself for your sake, I understand why believers make these threats and then don't consider them threats.




      Here are some more definitions from the dictionary:

      1. A person who inspires fear or dread.
      2. A warning that something unpleasant is imminent.
      3. Something that is a source of danger.
      4. Declaration of an intention or a determination to inflict harm on another.

      These all fit the claim. smile

      1. ediggity profile image60
        ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So, if you don't consider them "threats" it's a moot point, and you have wasted everyone's time. hmm

        As a stretch, number two could possibly fit in by your definitions; however, I would consider warning a positive thing.

        Oh, well, if it's from THE dictionary, pardon me.  lol

        http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=threat

        Here's a couple from the Urban Dictionary:

        "1.     threat     6 up, 6 down
           
        buy threat mugs, tshirts and magnets
        A system in MMORPGS which determines what character a particular mob will attack. Threat is gained during an encounter generally by attacking, healing, or taunting. For instance, threat in the MMORPG World of Warcraft is gained at a ratio of 1 damage:1 threat and 2 effective heals:1 threat before talents. Generally tanks have abilities that may have a 1 damage:5 threat ratio or greater, allowing them to keep aggro without having to be the highest dps. If enough threat is gained by a particular person, they will "pull aggro."
        "This tank's is amazing, I pulled 13,337 dps and I never got above 60% threat!"
        aggro tank mmo world of warcraft hate taunt tps
        by URTV667 Nov 7, 2009 share this
        2.     threat     11 up, 29 down
           
        buy threat mugs, tshirts and magnets
        Roughly speaking, great, with connotations of being so great it's threatening. Origin in the phrase "triple threat---singing, dancing, acting."

        Superlative: bomb threat
        This party's threat, yo.
        Take a sniff of this coke, bro; it's the bomb threat."

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, I understand why a believer would consider it a waste of time.



          Yes, and I'm quite sure believers will continue "warning" everyone with hell and eternal damnation. Such a positive thing.  smile

          1. ediggity profile image60
            ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Warnings aren't usually followed by something positive unless followed.  smile

            1. Woman Of Courage profile image59
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              ediggity, Agreed. It's highly recommended to take heed to a warning. God is a God of love and forgiveness, and he is just. A balanced, biblical message consists of the reality of hell, a warning to escape it, and the only way to so through the shed blood of Christ on the cross for our sins. Jesus never threatened anyone. Jesus could not be described as a compassionate Savior if he failed to warn us about hell. People inflict harm on themselves when they reject God. We either believe or don't believe.

              1. olgakhumlo profile image81
                olgakhumloposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Dear woman of courage, I'm glad you said it. Well heaven and hell are not fairy tales.they do exist and one's final destination is either heaven or hell:heaven if he believes in Jesus as his savior from sins and eternal hell if he rejects Christ as his Savior and King.This is what the Bible says.I believe Christians love those whom they are waning.If I tell a person of a danger ahead its because I love that person and Christ loves him too, that we are constrained to do so.Friends I hope that we all heed to the truth and what the Bible says , for there is not one prophecy that has been proved to be wrong.Hell is prepared for the Devil and his angels.JESUS LOVES YOU.Thanks for sharing.I admire your attempt.

                1. Woman Of Courage profile image59
                  Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi, olgakhumlo, Thank you. We never say the weatherman is threatening us when warned about a tornado is coming. I speak the truth with love. If I didn't have any compassion for people, I wouldn't care what happened to them. I love your response. Glad I didn't appear to be a hateful person to you. Thank you for sharing also. God bless you!

                  1. Beelzedad profile image60
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Of course not, the weatherman cannot be certain what will happen to you if you indeed decided to venture out into the tornado. You may very well do so and emerge unscathed.

                    However, when believers threaten others with hell, they are in fact telling that person quite emphatically what will happen to them. Big difference, and that is one of the reasons why it is a threat and not a warning. smile

                  2. 0
                    Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    at least these days people can get warnings about tornados etc these days.  Not like in times gone by when they all got killed and people thought it was punishment from god

      2. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Beelzedad. Reading through this thread and the one about turning the wrong cheek; looks like the posters of the threads are in the minority opinion camp. Oh well. If it makes you feel any better, if I ever tell you you're going to hell, you won't have to wonder if we're in disagreement to what it means.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If we were both talking about this many centuries ago, you and your Christian clan would have me tied to a large stake and would cheer with glee as the flames licked higher.

          In other words, you would be practicing what you preached by helping me in the most horrific way to get to hell that much sooner.

          Please remember that this IS the organization you belong with all of it's sordid history intact. smile

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Um, I'm pretty sure they would have burned me way before you. But I promise, this is a topic dear to me. The history of WW 2 bothers me at the deepest level, when I think about the horrors no one seemed to be willing to step up to the plate to intervene. I firmly believe in tolerance across the board, and think it is the responsibility of all of us to vehemently ensure it.

            Anyhoo, I think atheism is a wonderful thing; when a thinking person forces another thinking person to reflect upon their faith. I think our differences are a gift from God. Sorry, hate to bring the G word up.

            1. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No one is forcing you to think, it is not a requirement for faith. smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                See I would disagree with you  I've seen some very insightful posts by atheists.

                1. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, but no matter how insightful you may claim them to be, they haven't swayed your indoctrinated beliefs in the slightest. smile

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    See, I honestly don't know that I would call them indoctrinated beliefs. Trust me, my interpretation is too out there for anyone I know. God is God. God is good. God is Love. If I ever have cause to doubt that, I guess it's out the door. Televangelists, stodgy churches, and the karaoke churches are a mystery to me. I just don't get them. And this crazy stuff about God wanting us to be financially prosperous is a hoot to me. Call me crazy.

            2. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              A question for thought. Are you proud and will defend your religious organizations atrocious historic past considering you are part of that organization today?

              For example, should those who continue to remain in the Nazi Party be exonerated for the parties past atrocities?  smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I see your point. There are many ways to approach this question.

                1. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  How about, honestly? smile

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Honestly is obviously subjective. I try to be brutally honest with myself, I think.

              2. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I apologize. It was pointed out (somewhat oddly, and I think this may be the post he was refering to) When he stated that I ran away from a difficult question. I didn't see this as difficult, but I hate to be called chicken.

                This is a difficult question. After the twin towers were bombed there was a talk arranged at the local library.  Muslims wanted to share their thoughts. I had been shaken to the core by the tragedy and although I could see by my daily actions that I was still in shock I made plans to attend.

                I suffered a great deal of criticism, but I wanted to do something to show that  I did not blame the muslims for the acts of these maniacs. I also made a point to ensure the parking lots of their retail establishments were not always empty during the first few weeks afterwards.

                So, to answer your question, yes and no. I think people should be seen as individuals; be given the same consideration as we give them under our rule of law; organizations should be taken at their stated purpose if the majority adher to the standards of conduct we hold dear as a society. I realize the last statement is open for interpretation, so it is not a point I would argue unless I felt someone was unfairly attacking a member.

                I hope this answers your question, and I hope it is the one referenced below. If not, I'm sure I'll hear from him.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  So - you will continue to support Nazi-owned businesses in that case? As long as the owners did not actually herd people into a gas chamber. wink

                  Sounds like you are actually defending your irrational belief system and using the "they were not real Christians." argument.

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh. Anyone up at this hour must be either an insomniac or toasted. From your post, I would hazard a guess as to which you are. That's silly. The Nazi party's stated purpose is hatred at every level. I would judge them by their stated purpose, therefore any members would have to be seen as suspect.

            3. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Surely you are not referring to blind faith as thinking?  But good try.  You are so clever

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Wow. You called me clever. I don't know how to respond. I know the kind thing to do would be to say,' oh, so are you', but I kind of take the commandments seriously. So sorry. I hope that didn't offend.

                1. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I won't ask which commandment you are referring to, because that would just open up another inconsistency in your exchanges.

                  This is a peering into the mindset of the indoctrinated mind, and its struggle to persist in the face of total destruction of the delusion.  I feel your struggle.  A struggle, that one professing to be a seeker of the truth, is actually angered when truth enters the room.  Fascinating. neutral

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    What? That made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. maybe you were wrong. Perhaps I'm no so clever after all. LOL.

                    I've reread the posts above and haven't the foggiest where the truth is you are referring to.

                    If I ever arrive at the point where you are right, trust me, I will freely admit it. I realize you may have deeply seated issues which drive the need to attempt to belittle someone with the faith you deny, but I can assure you; your Pentecostal faith is in no way a mirror to my own.

  8. Daniel Carter profile image91
    Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago

    It's interesting to me to note that believers threaten hell and damnation, and then when cornered say it wasn't them that threatened it, it was God. So that loop hole always stays open. One of the things that always gets me is that it seems incredibly difficult for believers to take responsibility for their lives with such loop holes and also a basis of waiting to be saved when they should figure out how to save themselves. If someone else does it, what value is there in them missing the lesson completely? (Not excluding those times when we all need a little help, mind you.)

    As for reporting threats about being sent to hell and damnation, I suppose it's about as real as someone threatening that you're going to die on a toilet in an outhouse—or any other ridiculous threat that can't be substantiated.

    I do see your point though, but I guess if we have to get technical, it's really harassment and an über annoyance. Still, perhaps TOS ought to give a little leverage that includes no harassment as well.

  9. SpanStar profile image61
    SpanStarposted 5 years ago

    why stop with threats of being sent to hell how about
    about:

    * Being all stupid, an idiot, lazy, crazy

    with be as childish as we'd like to be.

    Everyone is subjected to the rules of this website and other website, it not just non-believes but we are or should be mature enough to know when we're acrossing the line.

    1. SpanStar profile image61
      SpanStarposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      that should say "{being called stupid"

  10. 0
    china manposted 5 years ago

    I have been banned a few times through complaints by 'believers' - not the last one though.  In each case the complaint is because the target of my slightly acidic humour, is unable to understand a metaphor (or deliberately chooses to misunderstand).  This inablity to understand is probably why they follow fundamental christian beliefs in the first place - most especially creationists.

    I am quitting Hubpages today in this persona and wish all you guys the best of luck and inspiration in trying to hold back the desease of ignorance and corruption that comes with the liars for jesus and their sheeple.

    Been nice battling with you.

    1. pennyofheaven profile image83
      pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Aww sorry to see you go!

    2. Paraglider profile image91
      Paragliderposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      OK, but I hope you'll be back in another. You have a valuable perspective to contribute.

    3. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      we have agreed and disagreed.
      It has always been a conversation.
      And thank you for that.

        Dido with Paraglider

    4. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry to see you go, sir. Take care and all the best. Hopefully, we'll see you in another persona. smile

  11. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago

    lol Beelz,
    you can not be serious?!

    a. To make a claim of being threatened with something tangible -like your present life, work, family, etc then according to the HP TOS, you could & should report such threats.

    However,
    a. If you enter a field/location -digital or not-- that clearly indicates its conditions (in this case, Religion/Beliefs) of which you clearly do not believe in/nor practice, you put yourself at risk as well as others who share your common idea. (i.e. Don't go to the barber shop, unless you want to get a haircut; if you hang around it long enough you're bound to get one).

    b. According to the [alleged] threats by these persons, titled as believers, and from your statement: you are being threatened with Hell & Eternal Damnation. This constitutes in invalid threat, as there is no way to validate whether or not such a place exists nor such an event. What's more, is a person who clearly has no regard for such supposed "make believe/imaginary" events/places, cannot make a case to report, unless they have some other empirical evidence supporting the threat - after death.

    c. Not being one of the titled believers or non-believers, I could also report many derogatory comments, hate speech -blatant hate speech- consistently and constantly, by several users on Hub Pages -both titled believers and non-believers. I choose not to, as it is all in digital literary non sequitur. So, I see no reason to take it seriously, personally, nor would I post an entire thread about it, in an attempt to express a loathing, a wine pairing snack or a digital logomachy.

    James.

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have no idea what you're talking about.



      Is there some point to that?



      Irrelevant, whether hell exists or not, the threats are very real.




      Yeah, I get that. smile

  12. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Mark Knowles wrote.
    Good grief! As I said - what you are really doing is defending your irrational belief system.
    = - = - = - = - =

    ME

      Everybody is doin it.

    ====================================================
    M.K.

    Actions speak louder than words - yet you take the "stated purpose," as enough for you? I take it you have not read your or the Muslim manifesto in that case, because both of their stated purposes is to convert the world at all costs. And no matter how many Christians kill for god - you will still defend it.

    = - = - = - = - = - = -
    Me
      No matter how many people misrepresent science you defend it.

    As you should.  If you believe in it.

    =======================================================
    M.K.
    You do not appear to be very curious at all - you never even entertained the possibility that I am in a different time zone to yourself. You should change your username to "i_have_all_the_answers."

    Probably past your bedtime.

    = - = - = - = - =

    ME  ...  It is 3:45 AM here  much past bed time and too early to be thinking properly.
      But  here I go anyway.
      I think that most people think that they alredy know everything that they need to know.

  13. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago

    Jerami - only people who are defending their irrational belief system think everybody is doin' it. sad

    1. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If that statement is correct? ...
      I guess that you are saying that everyone is defending their irrtional belief systems?

        Sounds right to me.  I agree.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        LOL. Good answer. I don't think he'll get it though.

        1. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I can only hope.

      2. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No - that is not what I am saying at all. Rotten guess. sad

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          To know thyself, is truly enlightening. To know another just gives you food for fun. I don't think he was too off base with his response.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Of course you don't. You are defending the same ridiculous beliefs. sad

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Ok. See, I'm stil confused here. Are we talking generic beliefs, or my beliefs? Is this like a big Risk game where we're playing teams and converts are conquered countries? You kind of confused me in the other forum. I didn't see anything in the rules about this.

        2. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Then you need to be more careful in your post cause that is certainly what it sounded like.

             Can you name anyone that does not defend their beliefs?

          edit 
          I'm going back to bed and see if I can get a couple more hours of sleep.
          see ya  Later.

  14. Ur Anaite profile image61
    Ur Anaiteposted 5 years ago

    When another person questions you about your beliefs you need to be able to answer them sincerely and logically. That means your response need to have the power of reason behind it, otherwise their is a problem with your faith.

    Unfortunately most major faiths cannot stand up to being questioned, and so they enter defensive mode which quickly shows their own lack of conviction.

    Most people who belong to a religion came ot someone elses conclusion because they need someone else to discover the truth for them. It doesn't turn out well at all.

    1. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      more than defense mode - they launch into attack mode

  15. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    "Hell and Eternal Damnation - The Threat"

    We Are All Doomed!!!

  16. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    Doomed I Say!!!

  17. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    And that's enough of that. smile

    Bye. smile

  18. 2besure profile image82
    2besureposted 5 years ago

    When looking at the venue of which they are speaking, I doubt it.  If you are uncomfortable, don't comment on those forums.  I am a Christian and I tend to leave those forums alone.

  19. 0
    Neville Walkposted 5 years ago

    I don't know if such a threat would be taken seriously, because to be threatened with something that doesn't actually exist is no threat at all.  It would be as serious as threatening you with Father Christmas not visiting you, if you are a naughty boy.  That he is a myth would somewhat weaken the power of such a threat.

    1. ediggity profile image60
      ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Wow, this must have really been weighing heavily on your mind for you to create a brand new account, and submit that answer.  smile

      1. 0
        Neville Walkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Why the idea of a hell, that I don't believe in should be weighing heavily on my mind, I cannot begin to guess.

        1. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I can't either, that's why your post confused me.  smile

          1. 0
            Neville Walkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well it doesn't take a lot to confuse you does it?  I had thought that the idea of the forums is that members of hubpages are entitled to post their points of view in response to a forum topic and to the views expressed by other members.  Just because I am new to this site, in no may suggests that I am not entitled to express my own point of view.  Or maybe it is expected that new members should wait for some time before commenting on a forum.  If this is so, then I apologise, and shall wait until I have been on here long enough before commenting again.

            1. ediggity profile image60
              ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You are entitled to express your "own point of view", just as I stated mine.  smile

    2. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      For some of the people that posts on here, it isn't about beliefs, or theology, it is about self elevation of their self esteem.
        Put every one else down (excpt your mutual appreciation club) in order to feel better about self.

         I knew a guy once that admitted to me that he didn't necessarily want to have the biggest baloon at the birthday party, he just didn't want anyone else to have ANY air in theirs.

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You mean like this fine example:



        smile

  20. Bronson_Hub profile image78
    Bronson_Hubposted 5 years ago

    Suppose someone steals a parking spot from us.  Is the sentiment that precedes the thought, "Let it go, what goes around comes around, they'll get what's coming to them," similar to the sentiment that precedes the thought, "This is no longer up to me. You will suffer eternally in the afterlife for your non-belief/sins"?

    1. aguasilver profile image88
      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      More or less, yes, same sentiment, however when someone steals my space, I try to remember that they may have a greater need for it, or may just be pig ignorant!

      Likewise, ALL of the local atheists may actually come to faith in Christ. This trolling with a script may just be part of their walk, I know I did a whole secular humanist gig for 30 years before God decided to call my number, so likewise, they (the atheists trolls) may have a greater need..... or they could just be.... smile

    2. pennyofheaven profile image83
      pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No its let it go full stop.

  21. arthurchappell profile image59
    arthurchappellposted 5 years ago

    I actually consider the threats of damnation I get to be an honour - there is something unchristian and deeply intolerant about any believer taking relish in telling me, 'Brother, you're going to burn.' just as long as they leave it to their God and don't try lighting a match near me themselves, I can handle it.

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Again, I will ask this around here...

      What Christian ever took relish in saying you'd burn in hell?

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Christians wouldn't make the threat if they didn't relish in doing so. Superiority complex. smile

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Untrue.

        2. 0
          SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There is a difference between a warning and a threat.  A warning of impending doom is not a threat to harm someone or cause doom.

          1. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, I suppose you missed the part where we've already discussed the definitions. smile

            1. 0
              SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I imagine I did miss them.  Carry on then.  tongue

              1. Beelzedad profile image60
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No worries SirDent, nice to see you back. Hope you are okay, I did see that thread of yours discussing a health issue. smile

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Just the flu.  Really nasty this year.

                  1. Beelzedad profile image60
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, that's not too bad a thing, although as we get older, it sure gets harder and harder to spring back, so to speak. smile

  22. Paraglider profile image91
    Paragliderposted 5 years ago

    Who knows what they put on their burger?

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      leaven.

      Many put leaven on their "burger".
      The leaven of political correctness, or of fear that their warnings will be taken as false piety, that they might actually have to subject even a little piece of their popularity or consciousness to martyrdom.

      1. Paraglider profile image91
        Paragliderposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Ah well, I'm fortunate to live in a place where no-one would ever be forward enough to regale another with religion.

  23. arthurchappell profile image59
    arthurchappellposted 5 years ago

    it's happened to me more than once Brenda - the tome is of a patronizing friendly warning - the (quoting / paraphrasing) 'I like you, and don't want to see you suffer so I feel obliged to warn you that God might send you to Hell if you don't change your wicked ways'. in other words, while the Christian wouldn't personally shove me into the brimstone forever, s/he knows someone who will, and expects me to toe the line - the relish seems to me not to be sadistic glee, but a thinking that they won't go into the hellfire themselves for being seen being pious enough to warn me - my sense is of disbelief in God, and if I found that he existed and was prepared to shove my friends into a fire, I'd want nothing to do with him anyway

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I see.
      In other words, you just refuse to listen to warnings, even if God Himself were to warn you.  And you don't think Christians are truly capable of loving your soul, they're only doing it for their own benefit? Is that correct?

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No, we don't want to be threatened by Christians. If your god came down to warn us of our futures, that's an entirely different thing. But, as it stands now, it is the Christians who are making the threats, not gods.



        That has not been demonstrated here. smile

  24. arthurchappell profile image59
    arthurchappellposted 5 years ago

    Brenda, a warning is a weather report that a tornado is coming - and i'd take cover. A warning that someone sentient is going to hurt me when they have the power not to hurt me is a bullying threat, not even delivered by the bully personally -  If I knew someone might hurt someone else i'd help the victim, not the bully - God can't threaten me as I dont believe or think he exists - the only ones who try to change my behaviour by threatening me with God are doing so from their fear of a God and desire to appease him by driving othes into their own mindset. Once I sense that, their threat, disguised as a warning as they imagine, means nothing to me.

  25. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago

    Frankly, I'm gettin' purty tired of atheists cajoling, seducing, personally attacking, and/or otherwise threatening people with hopelessness and nothingness.

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have never seen an atheist threaten you with anything. Do you have an example? smile

      1. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You must've been conveniently absent from those discussions.

        At any rate, I'm very glad that God has more mercy and patience than I do!   Today is still a day of salvation.  He still stands at the door and knocks.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So, no threats then.



          So do Allah, and Thor and Zeus and ... ad nauseum gods.  smile

    2. Dave Mathews profile image59
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Brenda I take this writer and his comments with a grain of salt. There is a song says "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." In the case of this writer and other so called writers like him who write nothing but choose to harrass others in what should be a religious forum one would need a whole bag of sugar in order to digest his nonsense. "O ye of 'NO FAITH' may God show you mercy." AMEN!

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you for the emotionally charged faith based rant. Too bad you didn't actually address anything and rather instead showed us your intolerance and superiority. Basically, you are saying that we should just shut up and go away so you may be free to threaten us with your gods wrath. smile

        1. Dave Mathews profile image59
          Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Am I intolerant? Not usually, but I draw the line at a certain point.

          Am I superior? possibly in intelect and intelligence and my love and appreciation of God.

          Should you shut up? Most definitely.

          Should you go away? the sooner and the further away, the better.

          Do I plan to threaten you with God's wrath? Heck no! I wouldn't even give you a second thought.

          You try to match wits with God and one of His children, you are no match for God, let alone me.

          1. frogdropping profile image85
            frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            What a singularly mean and arrogant reply.

            If this this is what being a good christian entails I worry what being a bad one represents.

            1. Dave Mathews profile image59
              Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If you think my reply mean, you don't know me.

            2. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks for that, however, it would be appreciated if you didn't ban Dave for those remarks. I would like to show him that we non-believers are above making such statements of intolerance and condescension.

              It's the right thing to do, n'est pas?  smile

              1. frogdropping profile image85
                frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Beelzedad I have no banning ability. If I did I wouldn't ban him anyway.

                Dave's reply was mean. I've seen much worse. Were it my choice I'd have called him mean in person - not snuck off and pulled a plug.

                No worries here - cão que ladra não morde smile

          2. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Dave, when people draw such a line, it usually isn't drawn behind them. smile

    3. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Aww - All we sed is u ain't a burnin' and u ain't need a-savin'. If'n u go agin the promise to god by leevin' the man u promised to stay with 'till death do u part - that be ur problem. We don't beleebin' in god so - wen we is deeevorcin' an a preechin' agin wot the biybel sez - it int no problem fer us'n. No hopelessness needed. Coz we in't beleebin' the threatnin'.

      Dear me. No wonder your religion causes so many wars. sad

  26. taliesin3339 profile image73
    taliesin3339posted 5 years ago

    Its their own twisted fantasies. Let them have imaginary punishments to go along with their imaginary beings and their fictional fairy tales. It doesnt bother me. I smile with glee when Christians tell me I will burn. Just ask my father! He tells me I will burn for not believing in his religion.

  27. taliesin3339 profile image73
    taliesin3339posted 5 years ago

    Santa Claus wont come visit if you dont believe in him and act right either.. or thats what they say. I still get christmas presents every year big_smile

  28. brotheryochanan profile image61
    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago

    amazing
    You come into the christian question forums with intents for disruption and so on, been doin it for too long a time and when someone tells you what they think of your hate filled speech, you start to head for hub pages help. If the truth (someone else's or your own) starts to hurt then leave or man-up.

    The bible says that people who act as reprobates will be judged by God if you don't want to be confronted with that, spend more time in other forums or change you harsh one liners to something that spells a bit of intelligent debating ability. Christians will always say what comes from their truth, if you can't agree then obviously you are in the wrong forum. If you want to cry to hubpages, then obviously you are not of the calibre of people that make up Gods kingdom and whine you will.

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That is a lie. My intent is not to disrupt, although I can understand how the presentation of reality would indeed disrupt a believers worldview.



      Yet, another lie, as it is the hate speech of eternal damnation threats that are under discussion. Please point out my hate speech or apologize for lying.



      In other words, I should just shut and go away when anyone threatens me? Should I just grow a spine and take it like a man?



      Yes, I can understand why you consider me a 'reprobate' and will use the words from your bible to defend those threats. I too can find books that have hate speech written in them, but I would never threaten you or anyone else with them.



      Do you mean I should begin to litter my posts with logical fallacies and magic? Is that your idea of "intelligent debating?"



      Hence, the problem of conflict, wars and genocides they cause by doing so.



      Yes, I do understand that you are compelled and taught to believe you are superior to me and anyone else who does not share your beliefs, and threats.

      And, if your response to me is an example of the "caliber of people" who are to make up your gods kingdom, I would not want any part of it. That should make you immensely happy. smile

  29. Jefsaid profile image81
    Jefsaidposted 5 years ago

    Religion or re-legion as I suggest is the indoctrination of those conquered with the conquerors views. If you look back to the historical facts behind for example Christianity you will see that its story is largely an exaggeration and in some cases, fabrication of some fairly mortal events based on Jewish religious accounts. The major difference is of course that the original Jewish based story fails to recognise Jesus as martyr because he was actually their enemy who opposed their ancestors for plagiarising Egyptian knowledge to which he was a devoted student. That's why they informed the Romans that he was a trouble maker which led to his crucifixion and also acted as a warning to his followers.  Jesus is likely to have been of African descent and actually means 'of the Sun God' due to his Egypt based beliefs and not the 'Son of God' as it became reinterpreted.  With the knowledge garnered from the people biblically referred to as the 'Babylonians' of how to control the masses through a manufactured belief structure, religion during the reign of the Romans was deployed as a very effective form of social control and management.  The two key human emotions that make it so effective is the instillation at an early age of 'fear' i.e. condemnation to Hell's fire and 'guilt' i.e our supposed inborn fallibility that means we need need to be led by the almighty, which are actually manipulative human factions.

    1. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      that's all very interesting - do you have any links about Jesus having eygptian-based beliefs etc?

      1. Jefsaid profile image81
        Jefsaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Baileybear the difficulty with finding any facts behind the biblical story is that they have been obliterated by the manufactured tale.  I have picked up snippets of information from various articles, readings and discussions over a period of time that once put together paint  the picture I describe above.  I will seek to share with you some specific articles that support my alternative summary of events.

        1. 0
          Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus' did miracles or magic?  Nothing was said about his first 30 years.

          I wrote a hub about the evolution of christianity (from other religions etc).

          Could put your findings in a hub

          1. Jefsaid profile image81
            Jefsaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Certainly I will

      2. Dr. Arthur Ide profile image79
        Dr. Arthur Ideposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Baileybear--Jesus is pure fiction, but not all of the tale of this myth comes from Egypt. The central parts do (The Last Supper, Resurrection, Ascension, etc) come from the Papyrus of Ani (British Museum); Jesus' calming the waters and various water references come from Homer's Odysseus (Odyssey, book 12, lines 37-55); the magi were but magicians from ancient Egypt, obedience to his mother is a retelling of Odyssey, book 11, line 85, and before the "betrayal" Jesus was in the garden drapped in a sheet that hid his nakedness before the soldiers pulled it off and the youth (maybe 16 years of age) fled naked, leaving his sheet (KJV says loin cloth) in the hands of Jesus. The Akkadians give us the early ministry, the 12 apostles were the council of Zeus, and the story of Lazarus is Babylonian. Nothing about Jesus is real. It is as much an invention as is the story of the illiterate Muhammad who allegedly was given the Koran by the archangel Gabriel--an erotic tale from 2000 BCE.

  30. 0
    klarawieckposted 5 years ago

    Which Hell are you being sent to, Beelyboy? The Evangelist's Hell, The Catholic's Hell, The Jehova Witnesses' Hell? Or do they let you take the trolley and visit the different parks to see where you want to get off? smile Is it like Disney World? Where you can buy a pass to visit all parks in 24 hours? Find out! Might be kind of exciting! smile

  31. Dr. Arthur Ide profile image79
    Dr. Arthur Ideposted 5 years ago

    Hell is a fictional place. To ancient Apiru it was a place of darkness. To ancient Romans it was a place of forelornness. To the ancient Greeks it was an underworld presided over by Hades who kidnapped Persephone and created winter. To the Bedouins it was a place of locusts and insects. To Dante the center of Hell was frozen over, with the devil in the center and the greatest betrayers of men near him.

    No one ever entered hell and returned to tell about it--save for a few fantasies where the speaker has no foundation in historical fact. Freud said it best, that hell is the worse you can imagine, but it remains imagination. There is no hell and there is no afterlife. We are all a part of the great movement of eternity and when we die a corporal death our atoms will spread out. I have neither a need nor a belief in a heaven nor a hell, for I prefer rational thinking and not wishful fantasizing.

  32. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Checked out your 'Ruminations on Religion'. Seems to leave room for runination.

 
working