jump to last post 1-25 of 25 discussions (620 posts)

Christians; Do You Turn the Wrong Cheek?

  1. 0
    just_curiousposted 5 years ago

    There's a forum up right now about Christians who play the eternal damnation card.  It bothers me, as a Christian, that anyone would say this to another human being. I am not arguing if there is a hell or not for humans, you can believe anything you want.  But does anyone have the right to judge another human being on such a grand scale as that?

    Jesus said:
    The Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' "The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." (NAS, Mark 12:28-31)

    Your neighbor is everyone.  Not just someone that carries the same faith you do.  I've read the posts on this site, I know that you are attacked rather viciously at times.  I've had people bite at my ankles too.  It just bothers me to think anyone could believe they were so superior in their knowledge that they had the right to say this.

    I just think we should all remember that when Jesus said,

    If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

    He's talking about your face.  Telling someone where you believe them to be going is offering a totally different cheek and I just don't think that was on Jesus's mind when he said it.

    Anyway.  That's how I feel.  I would love some feedback.  I've read posts from what I perceive to be very good Christians on this site and I know you don't do this.  Do you see any way to help stop it?

    1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
      Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hi just _curious, I agree with you. We should love our neighbors even when they don't carry the same faith. No one should be told where we believe them to be going. We can tell them biblical facts what the word of God says about how to avoid hell. Jesus warned, but never threatened anyone. This was done out of compassion for all of us. Yes I turn the other cheek.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I know. I carry the same faith as you. I think the information is available, the right to believe is freely given. It's just that it doesn't appear that we represent the Love of Christ when we do this. At least not to those outside of our faith. It is considered an insult to them when we say it and it bothers me that we don't take that into account.

      2. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, and so you know, you were one of the god Christians I was referring to.

    2. pennyofheaven profile image82
      pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Do not judge means exactly that. Love your neighbor as yourself Why are these open for interpretation? It cannot get any simpler than that can it?

      Perhaps when one does not love their neighbor like they love their self,  it reveals the level of love one actually does have for oneself.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree, and it is a much more difficult rule than to love God for anyone, I'm sure. At least it is for me. But I believe you hit the nail on the head, with your last statement.

    3. Dave Mathews profile image61
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I was going to give some wise crack answer to the question until I saw exactly what the topic was dealing with. I personally would not visit that forum for I agree with what you are saying here.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks so much Dave. That means a lot to me to hear you say that.

    4. Genna East profile image87
      Genna Eastposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "Your neighbor is everyone.  Not just someone that carries the same faith you do."

      That is so true!  I believe Christianity, as with all religions, is very spiritual.  It is not a clique, or something one turns on and off like a light switch when passing through church doors.  I also think it is very difficult to be a true Christian.  Telling someone "where to go," is not something that is our right, nor does it have anything to do with being a good Christian.

      1. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I've never heard a true Christian tell anyone "where to go" as in "go to h-ll" as you infer.
        Christians tell people how to NOT go there.  Huge difference. 
        But people will continue, I suppose, to play their Christian-bashing games.   Seems it's becoming quite popular these days, even in America.  Sign of the times, reverting back to the days when they bashed Christ Himself.

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Brenda, Agreed.

        2. Pcunix profile image91
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Another one who never turned a cheek in her life..

          1. 0
            Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            How would you know what I've ever done or not done in my life?

            Quite judgemental you are.   And making things personal, I see, against me and others here.

            Come on---either tell everyone who you really are, or else I suggest you stop making statements about which you know nothing.

            1. Pcunix profile image91
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I judge based on your comments in threeads here, Brenda.

    5. Pcunix profile image91
      Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      But you fib.

      You don't turn the other cheek at all. You are a hypocrite, in fact.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hello pcunix. I love to say that. Since you can't hear me, it comes out like Seinfield greeting Newman. Each of certainly needs adjustment of some kind. I am certainly far from perfect. So, you have decided to join the thread and supply some constructive criticism. How kind of you. Please elaborate, for my benefit.

        1. Pcunix profile image91
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I think you are quite smart enough to understand. You are a hypocrite and the proof of that is all over these forums.  You don't turn your cheek at all: you attack anyone who points out the reality of your fantasies.

          I will add this though:

          Much of the advice that supposedly came from the mouth of your apocryphal "savior" is actually good words to live by. However, this "turn the other cheek" bit is probably the dumbest thing attributed to him.  Nobody CAN live like that and no one should try.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            hmm. Interesting. So I think what you are saying if you have no idea what this thread is about and have no point for being here. If that correct?

            1. Pcunix profile image91
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I'm simply commenting on the hypocrisy 99% of the Christians here demonstrate daily.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I think, in fairness, we have to try and see that the hypocrisy goes both ways. At times, we are all a little too strong in stating our point. Some people, on both sides, go too far.

                1. Beelzedad profile image61
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Really? So, when folks here attempt to present reality to some other folks here who deny reality, how is that hypocrisy? smile

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Again, in fairness, there are enough people on both sides of the issue to give a reasonable person reason to believe both positions have something valid to say. I'm simply trying to be reasonable. Call me crazy. Oh wait. I believe you've already done that. Never mind.

                  2. aguasilver profile image86
                    aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Of course, knowing how you mean this.... which position you support, I still have to chuckle when I see that your statement is held to be true by both sides of this ´debate´.

                    You just assume that YOU are the one 'presenting reality' smile lol

    6. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you that it is insulting to say such things to people.  I even call it abuse when it's done to children

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, well that's something else entirely, and I agree. Thanks for posting.

        1. Pcunix profile image91
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          But it is fine to fill their heads with lies about a GOOD god, right?  That's ok.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I've had posts from people who probably filled their children's heads with worse things. Children raised to consistently attempt to belittle others could probably have benefited from an education that taught them love and tolerance. I agree that this does not appear to be the philosophy of some Christians, but such intolerance is not universally agreed upon.

            1. Pcunix profile image91
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I think children should be taught to belittle foolish ideas, don't you?

              Or should the world just be filled with superstitious nonsense? Yeah, that's the way you like it: nobody threatening your fantasies.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I never feel threatened, in a civil conversation. When I do perceive a threat it is never to my belief. More to my sense of civility.

              2. Jerami profile image79
                Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Who gets to decide who are foolish and who are not?
                  I guess we all get to apoint ourselves as the smart one.
                  What happens if one of the fools get to carry the BIG Stick?

                  What happens when there isn't a single wise man/womn to be found among us?

                1. Pcunix profile image91
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I have told you this before: I do not believe that the State should interfere with the lies parents tell children.  But neither should the parents try to influence the truth we do try to teach them in our schools.

                  That is, by the waym why I object to religious home  schooling and religious schools: the children never hear truth, just more religious lies.

                  1. Jerami profile image79
                    Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Larry the Cable Guy says that;  “Ya just can't fix stupid.”

                      Ya can't legislate it way either.

                      I guess we could kill all the stupid people.
                      But again who gets to decide who gets on that list for eradication?

                       I nominate myself to be added to that committee.


                       But before we proceed I gotta go fix a couple of busted water pipes.

            2. Beelzedad profile image61
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, we see this intolerance amongst Christians everywhere. Currently, one of the hot topics these days is the fact that Christians are causing so much grief to gay teens, they are committing suicide. smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Argh. Intolerance is not a Christian ideal. People led down the wrong path are sad, from any angle.

                1. Beelzedad profile image61
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  It is a result of religious ideals in general, ideals that teach followers to be intolerant of others if they do not share the same beliefs. smile

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I an so sorry you are not able to see on how many levels that argument can be used, against every system of beliefs.

                2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I take it you are yet another Christian that has not bothered to read the bible. Which is chock a block full of intolerance. God murders those he is intolerant of. Dear me. No wonder you cause so many fights. sad

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    LOL. Again, I disagree, but I'm ready to bat away another silly argument. I wonder of I can find a valid one on this site.

              2. 0
                Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That's a load of hogwash.

                1. Beelzedad profile image61
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  A fervent and emphatically rigid denial of reality. smile

            3. 0
              Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I was taught to 'love my enemies' and 'turn the other cheek'.  I was a bully magnet, as I was not allowed to stand up for myself

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Trust me. I don't do the turn the other cheek well. I just thought the title would pull them in to talk about the issue. I don't like to see anyone make that statement. Nobody has the faintest idea what the end truth will be. I have a hard time with statements of certainty on things we have no way of knowing.

    7. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Some people think that when Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, that this was suggesting total passivity
        I don't think so.
        Slapping someone on the cheek was a formal insult. 
        Jesus didn't say that when someone is coming at you with a knife, to turn your back to them allowing them easier access.

        He told his disciples to sell their purse and buy a sword.
      This was so they could protect themselves.
      But, he didn't tell them to go out and confront nonbelievers. 

        I think the disciples were told to go out and talk to those that were straddling the fence, so-to-speak, on the God issue.

      1. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Now there's a topic I've wondered about.
        Yes I read somewhere that, in those days, it was a formal insult, and that in response a person could literally turn the other cheek toward the attacker in a way of daring them to slap that cheek too;  it made a statement that the attacker was being a bully and dared him to keep showing himself out to be so, publicly. 

        But I'm not learned about the customs of that time.

        ...There is also something common-sense that adds to this discussion....

        Sometimes NOT rendering justice for evil is good to do.  And I'm not talking about just ignoring the insult.   Sometimes, (although the attacker may not realize it at the time), they get mercy by NOT being literally attacked back....

        I mean, seriously, some people deserve to have their hair pulled out for the things they do to others, but the victim refrains from responding in such manner.  Yet they're often accused of not turning the other cheek when they simply respond to the attacker verbally.   Sometimes bullies don't know how lucky they are;  they're the object of mercy even though they mock the victim as being  weak.

        In general, though, bullies are taking a huge chance, because sometimes their victims aren't Godly nor compassionate people nor people whose psyche can go unscathed at the hand of violence; they're people who will wait for their chance to execute vengeance later in some form or other.

        1. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          In my feeble minded days  (Today & tomorrow)  I can not remember chapter and verse but still remember the verses themselves.

            It is written that when the aggressor is forgiven by the victim, this allows that person (The aggressor) to heap hot coals upon their own heads. or something like that.

            Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.  I have seen my attackers be punished (by circumstance) much, much more severely that I would have ever thought to do.

            And some times they seem to go punished. I guess  everything is served equitably in its own time.

          1. 0
            Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Indeed.
            That is the law of nature, and of God as well.

            1. Jerami profile image79
              Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              When someone offends me, I have no clue as to other things that are going on in their life, nor are they privy to mine.

                And sometimes when we think that we are being done wrong, it might be that we are being paid back for a wrong that we have previously comitted to someone, which seems to be an unrelated issue.

                Usually the score keeper errors in their own favor, when it comes to these matters.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You are dead on with that. Sometimes I wonder if posters aren't just venting over problems they don't feel brave enough to state in their everyday life.

                1. Jerami profile image79
                  Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I've thought something similar myself.

                    I have found that when people who know each other such as spouses, neighbors and such; seldom confront the main issues that they are angry about, but barely touch upon the real issues that are bothering them.

                    Why would the general population be any different?

                2. Pcunix profile image91
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You mean like the reason you make up imaginary friends?

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Actually pcunix, that's the first comeback I've seen from you.Good one. Not valid, but somewhat courteous.

            2. Beelzedad profile image61
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No, it is not a law of nature. smile

    8. starsofeight profile image59
      starsofeightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Not just Christians, but all people have a right to judge others on whatever scale they choose.

      As to a Christian message, Christians are exhorted to maintain 'righteous judgment'. Also, within scriptures, the lack of judgment in the world is lamented as one of the worldly woes.

      On a personal level, judgment is much like a warning. If you are in the middle of the street and a truck is coming your way fast - and I call a warning: "Hey! If you stay there, you'll get smashed!" - are you really gonna argue that I am severe, impolite, out of touch, etc? I don't think so.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I certainly understand your point, but my point is simply that unbelief is a choice in our society. Everyone has free access to all information. Anyone seeking has endless avenues to find answers. To point this out is pointless, inhibits the free exchange of ideas and no one is unaware of the fact that they consider it to be an insult. I just don't understand why it would be said if we know the only outcome is perceived as an unkindness.

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        starsofeight, Great point! smile

    9. Tumbletree profile image60
      Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Christianity is fond of using the expression, "turn the other cheek," because it implies the meaning- to forgive; but the expression is most often properly translated to "offer the other cheek." The is, if someone hits you on the face, Jesus says you should offer his the other cheek to hit too. Many of his expressions solidify this point, that when someone does harm or injury to you, you should readily offer them the opportunity to do more harm to you. If a man tries to rob your purse, you should offer him you car too. If you don't believe that this is sincerely his line of thinking, remember he quite willingly went to his death. Now, there reason for this is that Jesus believe in an afterlife, an eternal one, and nothing that is done to someone compares to that. Life is a transitory state and doesn't matter. By not resisting evil, you both resist the temptation to believe that what happens to in life is what is important as opposed to the eternal life, you demonstrate to the person inflicting some evil on you , that there is something far more important than any harm they can inflict upon you, and that you do not feel more important than they are, you severely humble yourself before them. Remember Jesus doesn't want us to harm on another and it is a basic human drive to feel superior to another, the ego needs to feel better than someone else or others, or it feels pain. How games aim for a tie? Why does a mother allow a child to win a game, that she could easily win? Why does she allow a child to feel better than her mother in that moment? The human ego needs to feel better than, not the same as. So Jesus teaches people to offer the other cheek (for those who can). The mother doesn't win the game against her daughter, she offers the other cheek to her daughter by loosing and lets the daughter feel superior. The ego's need to feel superior is at the heart of so much pain in the world, most of it actually. If some people can take it upon themselves to willing lift others above them and surrender to need to placed above any other, then those people willing give to others what is so desperately struggled for, and less the pains to all those struggles can inflict. The also fear themselves of the ego, there is no greater peace on earth than to be free of ego's constant judgments of self, others, life and so on.  This is the mistake people make in praising and raising Jesus up, it is exactly the opposite of what he would want. He would want to be put below every single person ever. He would want to be last in heaven not first. Remember he humbled himself tot he world. The problem is people can the truth of his philosophy without intrinsically raising him up in their esteem. If you stepped into heaven you'd find on the most glorious throne, what we'd consider the worst human being. Yet, Jesus, you wouldn't see, he'd be the lowest amongst them. He and the father are one, and the father will let us win the game, because we need to win, he doesn't.

    10. GodTalk profile image86
      GodTalkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      While I agree that no human being has a right to be the final judge of another human being, God who created us does. If you take the Bible seriously, then you have to see in it a theme that humanity was created by God but chose to go against Him. The fall of mankind and its results are all through the Bible. The New Testament clearly shows Jesus as the answer to the sin question and the ultimate consequence of sin which is death and eternal separation from a Holy God, who hates sin. This same Jesus whom you are quoting talked about hell as well as heaven. No matter what you perceive hell to be, Jesus claimed that it existed. Most people know John 3:16 which tells us that "God so loved the world that He gave us His one and only son, that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life." That chapter also tells us in John 3:36 : "He that believes on the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God abides on Him."

         Jesus' mission on this earth was not just to be a good teacher and preacher about how to love. His mission, was to die on a cross for sinful humanity, in order to bring them back to a right relationship with a holy God.
         While I think that many people go about witnessing in the wrong way, teaching the gospel according to the Bible is going to be offensive to a lost humanity because they simply don't believe that they are lost. But if you want to teach the whole counsel of Jesus and the other Biblical writers, you cannot leave out the fact that the gospel or good news is so good ,because the bad news is so bad. Man, without Christ is lost. He needs to be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ.
      It wasn't me that said it. I am quoting the Bible. If you accept the Bible as God's Word to mankind, then God said it.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I accept the Bible as God's word. I think Jesus's words were given to us as our way to view the world. Love God, Love Your Neighbor is first and foremost according to him. I think more people would be compelled to see the beauty of God if we tried harder to emulate the Love of Christ as opposed to Paul before the road to Damascus. This is just my opinion.


        I do realize the atheists can make this difficult at times with their posts.

        1. Pcunix profile image91
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You think, and you all give it good lip service, but you don't actually do any of it, do you?

          1. GodTalk profile image86
            GodTalkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I will not speak for myself but I know a lot of fine Christians who are the most loving people that I have ever met. I am sorry that you don't know them. You are missing out.

            1. Pcunix profile image91
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I do know some and I admire them greatly. They aren't a bit like any of you.

              1. GodTalk profile image86
                GodTalkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I said this in another post, but you don't know me. Of the people who actually do, I don't have any that I'd consider my enemies, and as far as I know they like me as well. Of course I cannot speak for everyone I know.

            2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I know lots of Loving people...Christian and Non Christian...The diffence is...the Non christian types don't try to change who I am or how I choose to view the Divine...This is not true of all Christians...Sometime to love something you must let it go.. or in this case let them live how they choose..."loving" someone but always pointing out the "danger" they are in can result in a hatred of you and then all of your "love" falls on deaf ears... The bible says to spead the good word of the Kingdom of God....so that all might have a chance at salvation...this does not mean to point out that you feel they are a sinner...that is not our jobs... our job as tasked to us by Jesus...was to spread the good word of the Kingdom of God only....

              1. Pcunix profile image91
                Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                We have heard the nonsense. We do nott need to hear it again.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  That is what I am saying...Spread the word if that is what you feel is Right... and Stop Beating the dead horse...Oh and the Good word applies to all sides..not to just the christians...each side has its version of the "good" word

              2. GodTalk profile image86
                GodTalkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                A chance at salvation from what exactly?

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Salvation from...Insert as you so choose...personally I lean towards peace and happiness here on earth...I know lots of people currently living in "hell" and I know others that live a blissfully heavenly life...There are two ways to live life...either Live in Life or you can suffer in Death...and both of those can happen long before your body actually dies...

                  1. GodTalk profile image86
                    GodTalkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And yet the Bible teaches salvation from sin very clearly. That is my source. Whatever you choose to believe is up to you but you cannot claim the Bible as your source. Of course, maybe you don't.

              3. GodTalk profile image86
                GodTalkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No, it is not our jobs to point out that people are sinners. God has done it. We simply teach what the Bible says about sin, salvation and entrance into the kingdom of God and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

                1. Pcunix profile image91
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Don't teach. We aren't interested.

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    We?

                    lol

                  2. GodTalk profile image86
                    GodTalkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    There must be some interest or you wouldn't keep reading and replying to my posts. Your interest is most likely just to counter attack with your own point of view, but you cannot say you have no interest.

                2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  We can spread the word of the Kingdom of God...When the Holy Spirit comes to someone they will receive the understanding...we don't need to "teach" them anything...

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well said.

                    Personally I just love to discuss (not argue) the things of God,and sometimes I know some people although they never comment, may just  be reading.

                    I also think it would be a very boring world ,if we all thought the same way ,so even though I may think ,some posts are crazy (as no doubt someone thinks of mine) I dont hate ,or hope they go to hell.

                  2. GodTalk profile image86
                    GodTalkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The Bible says that "How shall they hear without a preacher?" God has sent people out into this world to preach and also to teach what He has to say in His Word. We need preachers and teachers because they are Gods instruments that the Holy Spirit uses to spread His word to humanity.

          2. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That is so untrue pcunix. I've told you I love you. You just won't love me back. I know we joke around, rather harshly at times, but you're warming up to me. I can see that.
            you came out of your thread to find me. That warms my heart.

            1. Pcunix profile image91
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Believe me, I cannot begin to  express my opinion of you without getting banned from the forums.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Hmmm, I'm not feeling the love here. Let's work on that. Shall we?

                1. Pcunix profile image91
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Not going to happen.

                  By the way, your score is in danger of falling below 75.  If you don't link out to anything of your own, that doesn't matter, if you do, it does and you need to improve it.

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Now that's love. Thanks pcunix. That was so sweet of you to share that. I have no idea what you mean, but you are obviously trying to be helpful. I'm still learning this place.

        2. GodTalk profile image86
          GodTalkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If my neighbor's house was on fire when he was sleeping in his bed, then the loving thing to do would be to tell him that he needs to get out and not to let him sleep. God tells us that we are sinners in need of a savior.  The loving thing to do is to tell people about it. Once again, we don't beat people over the head, but we can't sugar coat the truth.
             The two greatest commandments are to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. Wanting someone to have an eternal relationship with God is loving someone as yourself. I wouldn't want to be separated from God for eternity and I shouldn't want my neighbor to be either.

          1. Pcunix profile image91
            Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            And that is why we dislike you so much. Keep your fantasy fires to yourself.

            1. GodTalk profile image86
              GodTalkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              How can you dislike me when you don't even know me? Do you dislike everyone you disagree with? Your opinion is noted but
              I choose to believe a risen Savior and will politely decline your loving invitation.

              1. Pcunix profile image91
                Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I know you by your works, obviously.

      2. Beelzedad profile image61
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, take no responsibility for your actions or your words and shift it to an invisible friend. Then, you can do and say whatever you want and never have to worry about any consequences. Hurray! smile

      3. Tumbletree profile image60
        Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If you take the bible seriously it isn't we who turned against God it was God who turned against us. Read Genesis. First God keeps man ignorant of good and evil, but expects man to know right to obey God? Then God kicks man out of Eden and deprives him of immortality for a mistake every child makes, not listening to its parents. Then God forces us to speak different languages to inhibit what man can accomplish again.  Fortunately man did again discover a universal language in science and it, will as God says, allow us to do anything.

    11. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Very well said.  Please accept my thanks for making this point so clearly and kindly.  I agree completely.  Would love for you to read my most recent hub about Christians who turn people away from Jesus.  Please feel free to comment as well.  I'm very open to the feedback.  God bless you!

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Read it. Loved it. Wish everyone would take the time to visit your hub and read it.

      2. 0
        Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        just_curious, I didn't even realize this was YOUR post!  Again, thanks for reading.  You and I are certainly of the same spirit. So, again, thanks for reading AND thanks for sharing!

        1. Cagsil profile image84
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Good reason why the world is going to the crapper. People of the same spirit, but failing to be of the alike minds. lol

        2. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Don't mind cagsil. Stay around long enough and you'll see he's negative about everything.

          1. Cagsil profile image84
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Negative? Talk about blissful. lol

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If negativity is bliss for you, that's grand.

              1. Cagsil profile image84
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You make no sense, but what else is new. hmm

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I was trying to play down to the level of the reply. Sue me.

                  1. Cagsil profile image84
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Play down my level of reply? First come up to my level of understanding and clarity, then maybe you might actually see the light of day, never mind, being lost in the dark. lol

                    No wonder why Christians and the alike cannot ever see anything in reality.

                  2. Pcunix profile image91
                    Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh, if only we could..

                    Just teasing. I dislike lawyers much more than the most fundy Christians.

  2. ediggity profile image60
    ediggityposted 5 years ago

    I agree, telling someone that they are going to hell is something only God should do.  Like WOC stated, Gods word tells us how to avoid hell. smile

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That may be true, but don't you think maybe the log in our eye might be in the way? Of all the things to share from the scriptures why in the world would someone choose this to throw out at others? And do you believe that anyone knows where anyone is going? It is perceived as an insult. And I don't know that Christ ever insulted anyone except for the religious leaders.

      1. ediggity profile image60
        ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I really don't know why someone would share that.  I don't ever bring it up myself.  I've honestly never seen it brought up here in the forums either, so I don't really know where it's coming from.  I don't believe anyone knows where anyone else is going.  I believe only God knows, but I also believe faith in Jesus is the only way to God's kingdom. smile

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't know.I haven't been here long. I've seen it a couple of times, and the last atheist I talked to seemed to have dealt with it a lot. It just bothered me to be attacked, but I could certainly understand how the word Christian has negative connotations, if that is what they have been exposed to.

    2. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry. I know that sounded like I thought you right it was ok to say it. I see you are saying it is on the scriptures. I just hour you leave that conclusion for others to come to on their own.

    3. Woman Of Courage profile image60
      Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      eddigity, There is a thread titled " Are Jesus deliberately lying about Jesus." I simply posted what the word of God says about avoiding hell with the scriptures. This was stated in a timely manner, so it was not thrown out there in a disrespectful way. Two atheists were attacking a christian faith on the forum, and the discussion lead to a warning about hell. I was not demonstrating evil to evil as I have been accused of in this forum. I will move along now before anymore darts are aimed at me. God bless you!

      1. 0
        SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Eph 6:16  Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Do you consider me wicked Sir dent?

          1. 0
            SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            All flesh is wicked.

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Perhaps. Is that the point you were making in your previous post?

              1. 0
                SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The point I was making was encouragement for WOC after what she wrote.

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  She was upset by something that, in my inability to express myself, I had done. I do hope she will find it within her heart to forgive me. But I don't think anything wicked is here. What is your opinion on the forum topic, Sir dent. Do you think there is a problem? If so, do you see a way to address it?

                  1. 0
                    SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The problem is the flesh really.  We should turn the other cheek and many times we do, but not all the time. Sometimes the flesh wants to fight it out.

                    It is a spiritual problem and none of us have perfected opur spiritual walk yet. 

                    I would also like to add, writing about hell offends people, but at the same time, mentioning the name of Jesus offends them as well.  If it is the offensivenss of it that bothers them, they need to thicken their skin or get on the right track.

      2. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Woc, please accept my apologies if you got the impression that I was referring toyou in any way when I started this forum. You are one of the voices I respect on these pages. I say we, simply in that if we are christians, then we must accept some responsibility in the actions of those who use the same name. We includes me. I simply think there are times when someone who lays the claim of being christian is allowed leeway to say things they have no right to say. We have an obligation to speak out.

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          just_curious, I got the impression in your prior statement to me. "Oh, and so you know, you were one of the god christians I was referring to." As christians, we are demonstrating love when we share what the scriptures in the bible say about avoiding hell. Do you think we should only share all other scriptures, and avoid the scriptures in the bible containing to hell?

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I do not personally see the value of a warning such as that to an unbeliever. But then, I think the threat of hell is way over rated. It is perceived as a slap in the face and we all have to know this. So instead of what a good Christian might perceive as a gentle warning, what they are doing is unkind and beneath them. In my opinion.

            1. the pink umbrella profile image72
              the pink umbrellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              now that was well said. Because christians dont "share" scriptures on hell, they warn with them.

            2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              just_curious, There is always value of God's word, warning people of how to excape hell. The scriptures in the bible warns on its own. All I have to do is share them when needed. God's written word does not threaten people. Well, I respectfully disagree with your opinion, but we can agree to disagree. Sorry if my response bother you.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Your response does not bother me in any way. I respect you enough from what I have seen of your posts that you have come to this decision through thought and you do not lash out with it.  that is the best way I can think of to say those things, if one feels the need.

                1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                  Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Just_curious, It's good for you to acknowlege I do not lash out with revenge. That's not my demeanor. I respect you also.

              2. pennyofheaven profile image82
                pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                There are far more useful ways to share ones own truth. Attempting to warn and instill fear in another based on ones own truth never seems to generate the desired effect. So is there any true value in that approach? 

                Always sharing ones own truth with love is a far more useful approach.

              3. Beelzedad profile image61
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, your bible does threaten. And, you have no right to share those threats. Keep them to yourself, thank you very much. smile

                1. aguasilver profile image86
                  aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  But believers do have an obligation (in scripture) to tell the secular world what the bible teaches, all of it.

                  Equally the secular world has the right to not listen or ignore what the bible states.

                  However having told the world the scriptures concerning them, there is no need or instruction to continue informing them, effectively once is enough and following that we can 'dust our sandels' and move on to others who may not be aware yet.

                  In today's communication rich world, there must be very few people alive who have not heard the 'gospel' ('good news') of Christ (which is also a predictive text in itself!) - and I agree that there is no more point in believers telling non believers who have already been made aware, what the bible states about their condition.

                  Hell is a subject that has many connotations to people, believers or not, and one can go from a literal-minded hell fire and brimstone preacher to a full universal salvation believer in a matter of months, I have a friend who did just that, once he studied the levels of meaning in aionion.... if you have not done this, well you are not fully informed.

                  Intrinsically hell, factual or fictional is of no regard for a believer, for Christ has spared them that whole concept when they came to faith.

                  If a believer came to faith to escape hell, I would caution them to think more deeply about their salvation.....scripture makes no reference to escaping being a valid reason to come to Christ, rather the realisation that Christ was sent to save us from the world, not hell.

                  Christ is not simply a parachute to save you in extremis, Christ is a saviour who allows us to move in this temporal plane without being subjected to the enemies control of the same, because He and He alone defeated ALL the power of the enemy, and those who have believed in Him have the authority to claim that victory over the enemy in the name of Christ, to whome they belong.

                  In reality it matters not whether hell is just a creation of the early Catholic church designed to instil fear and control over the populace, or is a reality that will burn for eternity, or is a figurative place of separation from God, or indeed whatever else you think it to be, for IF you have a relationship with Christ, if He KNOWS you, then you will never experience whatever hell is, and if you do not, then as believers we will have no knowledge of whatever you are experiencing:

                  Revelation 21:4
                  God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more, neither shall there be anguish (sorrow and mourning) nor grief nor pain any more, for the old conditions and the former order of things have passed away.

                  John

                  1. pennyofheaven profile image82
                    pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    If believers have a scriptural obligation to tell the world that is all good and well. What is it they are telling though if the understandings of the scriptures are very limited at best. There are infinite levels of understanding scripture.  If they are taught surface level understandings and not the depths then surface understandings will be taught universally. Who determines which believers are to tell the world.

                  2. Beelzedad profile image61
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Not true. Jesus commanded ONLY his eleven disciples to do so, who were supposed to delegate preachers as the only method of spreading the gospel. You and everyone else here do not have that right.

                    Of course, we've witnessed the body count throughout the past many centuries that resulted from that "obligation." smile

                  3. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well said.

            3. Beelzedad profile image61
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well said. smile

          2. Beelzedad profile image61
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            How about sharing nothing at all, which would be most pleasant. That way, believers could learn a little bit about respecting others. smile

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hey, that may be part of the problem. How come you get to talk about what you want and everybody else has to talk about what you want? Sounds like a dictatorship to me. People should be able to talk about whatever suits them. You could try not joining in, just to rain on their parade.

              1. Jerami profile image79
                Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That is right!    just because Beelzedad don't like fig newtons,  he goina wine unless we all eat chocholote chip,  and he hasn't even proved that he likes them yet.

                   Beelzedad   what do you like?

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL. that's the way to bring our little rain cloud back.

                  1. Jerami profile image79
                    Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Sorry bout that.

                2. Beelzedad profile image61
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, it would be nice if folks stopped comparing their irrational religious beliefs to reality as if they were one and the same. smile

                  1. Jerami profile image79
                    Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Even in perfect world.  No one is going to comprehend reality the same.

              2. Beelzedad profile image61
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Who said anything about talking about stuff? Are you saying that is the same as evangelizing Christianity and threatening people with eternal damnation? smile

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No. threat's are bad. Thinking you aren't fine just the way you are is bad. But I don't see talking about your religion as a bad thing. If you come into a religious forum and join in, that is your choice. Maybe some people don't know you and think you're there because you're interested in the conversation. I'm pretty sure I've never gone into a forum about the joys of atheism and gushed about my faith. I would not feel good about myself if I did that. I like to hear your thoughts even though they are opposed to mine, but sometimes you can be just a tiny bit difficult and I wish I had a tool to remove the grin from your emoticon. But, for the most part, not.

            2. ediggity profile image60
              ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Shouldn't Atheists be held to the same standard also?  smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I think that's part of the problem. Christians try to hold themselves to a higher standard and the atheists get to say whatever they want. when a Christian snaps, their words are so far removed from the spirit they had been talking previously, it comes off a lot harsher than someone who had been somewhat snide from the start.

                1. Beelzedad profile image61
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Evangelizing is a higher standard? lol

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I think you're simply being argumentative with that post, But in case you really didn't understand; you too need to open your eyes and be fair. You attempt to formulate a logical argument against your oponent, and bait them along the way. An acceptable strategy. I don't know why anyone would threaten you with damnation. Some of the nay say posts I've seen are hateful to the extent of being mentally off balance and continue on as if the only point is to badger. There is a higher standard than that.

              2. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Oh, that last post was my bad. I thought you were responding to something else. Never mind.

              3. Beelzedad profile image61
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Which atheists are threatening you with eternal damnation? smile

                1. ediggity profile image60
                  ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  None, but I was referring to "sharing nothing at all" and "learn a little bit about respecting others."  smile

                  1. Beelzedad profile image61
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    lol That almost brought tears to my eyes in laughter. Funny stuff.

            3. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Beelzedad, I encourage you to not enter the forums where believers are discussing their faith, then you won't have to view what have been shared. It's uncilvilized for an adult to join in to attack people because they believe.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Very good point WOC.

      3. ediggity profile image60
        ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        WOC, I haven't actually seen that thread, but if you didn't attack someone then I don't see a problem. Sometimes Atheists say mean things out of hatred in the heart toward Christianity.  I've never seen you act mean toward anyone, so they might have just interpreted what you wrote the wrong way.  smile

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          ediggity, I made an error. The title: Are Christians deliberately lying about Jesus. No, I didn't attack anyone. Some of the Atheists in the forums deliberately interpret what Christians say the wrong way. I shared the biblical truth with scriptures in that particular forum, and it was shared with love. This forum is up and running now. You may scroll below Dian's replies to see what I wrote if you prefer.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hi WOC. I know it is somewhat impolite to reply when you were talking to someone else. I just want you to know I didn't post this forum due to anything I may have interpreted from anything you ever said. I don't go into forums with more than about 50 posts unless I have to. I have a hard time pushing this little droid through them. I don't know what was said, but you always speak with wisdom and compassion. Our disagreement on a point is, I'm sure, more my problem with sharing the scriptures than any you might feel.

            1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hi just_curious, Thanks for your reply,and the kind compliment.

          2. ediggity profile image60
            ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No need to, I believe you. smile

            1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              ediggity, Thank you for believing I didn't attack anyone smile

  3. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 5 years ago

    Since you brought this up an idea or suggestion would be to setup a study ground here or somewhere else and do some biblr studies like in Sunday school to help others that need it a better clarification to the teachings of Jesus.

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sounds like a plan, but I was just venting. I'm not part of any congregation. It would be a study group of one and I get boring very quickly.

    2. ediggity profile image60
      ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm all for a study group if anyone wants.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Is that possible on this site? sounds interesting.

        1. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sure why not?  You can start a Bible Study Thread.  I usually read Our Daily Bread, which focuses on a new piece of scripture each day.

          http://odb.org/

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            thanks. I'd never heard of that site.  I'll check it out.

  4. cheaptrick profile image57
    cheaptrickposted 5 years ago

    Keep in mind that The bible says"other"cheek.It does not specify"Which"other cheek[we have four you know].Kinda gives a whole new meaning to the term"Sometimes you just got to show your ass to bad people".

    So
    so you think you can tell
      Heaven from hell
    Blue skies from pain
    A green field from a cold rail
    A smile threw a veil
    Do you think you can tell?  Pink Floyd
    "For who is the wiser man?He who thinks he knows but does not know.Or I who knows that he does not know"   Socrates

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hi. Glad you put your two cents worth in. love the quotes from pink floyd and socrates. Can you clarify for me though? I'm kind of on the fringe of mainstream Christian philosophy. Are you saying you think it's ok for Christians to throw that at someone?

      1. cheaptrick profile image57
        cheaptrickposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm saying the appropriate response in any given situation is the kindest most effective response even if it requires violence.How else can we incorporate christian wars of necessity into Christianity.I'm referring here to Christs saying he comes with a Sword".Though that is meant in a spiritual sense it is also manifest in the physical world.Militancy is Never productive...Violent reaction dose have a place in Christianity however and those who disagree need to forfeit the relative security in terms of our spiritual rights and benefits...cause their Not getting the whole picture.In closing I must say...A true warrior does everything in his power to avoid conflict and hates the violence he must inflict.However,when it's required he Will bring down the Lightening.
        Dean....don't let my screen name throw you smile

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ok. So you think that right to violence extends to verbiage used in a discussion that has turned fractious? I really am trying to get a handle on this, so please indulge my questions.

          1. cheaptrick profile image57
            cheaptrickposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "Government is like a great noble stead that must be spurred on due to it's immensity.I am the Nat that is always disturbing here and there" Socrates
            This quote should be applied to all areas of human endeavor...including religion...it is effective in terms of opening minds so that greater understanding may be grasped.
            Expression has nothing to do with content.It is simply the vessel that caries it.Why do you say"right to violence"?There is no right to violence.Violence is appropriate Only when necessary.Verbiage alone is not sufficient.You are opening an area that has to due with philosophical avenues that flow and change so trying to nail down those precepts is not going to happen in a short forum exchange.Please don't interpret what I say as being contentious.I cannot spend as much time as I'd like here[you'll please notice I very rarely visit the forums].I'm not a writer,philosopher,or intellectual giant.I pose only thoughts just as others do.Take what resonates and leave the rest.I wrote a hub titled"I'm a happy guy"that I believe may give a better understanding of another path experienced by some.One of the comments began with"Though violence is not the answer,it is effective..."I'd like to invite you to take a moment and read it.This is not promotional as I'm not here to earn money like most of my respected fellow hubbers.Besides,what would I buy with all that money?One cannot purchase the holy grail of"Balance".One can only seek it internally.Please forgive the length of this post"They don't let us out much" Independence day.lol

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you so much for your input.I'll definitely check out your hub.

  5. aguasilver profile image86
    aguasilverposted 5 years ago

    I think many folk have a desire to see hell populated, despite what scripture states about love and not being judgemental, and for some it seems they view that those who reject God NEED punishment.

    I guess we all are at different stages of understanding about how God loves humanity.

    When we find a person claiming Christ, but threatening Hell, we all need to counsel them, for we are meant to always either be blessed by those we meet or be blessing those we meet, not cursing folk who we disagree with.

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You are 100% right. That was the point I was so poorly trying to make. most evey person that has posted here have seemed to be that considerate type, from their posts in other forums. I just wonder if it isn't appropriate for people like that to stop tip toeing around their more sensitive fellow Christians and point that out. I think it is hard to step up in a forum where that person is suffering what we might perceive as attacks, but they reflect very poorly on the faith by doing that. in my opinion. I could be wrong. Maybe my opinion is the one that doesn't line up with Christianity, but I certainly hope not.

  6. Disturbia profile image60
    Disturbiaposted 5 years ago

    I don't turn any cheek, if someone slaps me, I slap them back.

    1. 0
      SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I normally don't either, but then again, I haven't been slapped in years.

  7. Rastamermaid profile image71
    Rastamermaidposted 5 years ago

    I'm hoping you don't mean physically,if you do...well I'm working on that.If you slap me,it'll be returned.

    Now stating for my faith and beliefs I'm going to hell,yeah I turn the other cheek the lower one and walk away.

    I may even tell "Bless your heart" and keep it moving.

    1. Disturbia profile image60
      Disturbiaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I so don't know what you're talking about, but since I'm more of an eye for an eye than a turn the other cheek kinda gal, yeah, I mean it in every possible way, figuratively, literally, and physically.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Ok  you follow the old ways. That's cool. so, since hell isn't a big idea in the Old Testament, you wouldn't use the threat of that  in an argument. you've got a more conventional arsenal.

        1. Disturbia profile image60
          Disturbiaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't believe in hell.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm right there with you

            1. 0
              SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Mat 5:29  And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

              Jesus Himself spoke of hell being a real place.  How can a person say they follow Jesus and disregard some of the things He said?

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Sir dent, I have no intent to cross scriptural swords with you. I think you have your right to your opinion. I feel I've gotten a good idea of what that is. I just want to say I agree with the Jewish mystics who claim the Bible to be a level of creation. It is infinite in it's variety of thought. You can find whatever you want. I simply fear that a person who embraces God because of the bad they see in the scriptures  is in need of salvation more than one who denies Him for the same reasons. I wish you luck on your path.

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The same Jewish mystics who had Christ crucified?  You do know that the priesthood was full of mystics?

                  I wonder if they had a golden calf in their temple at the time.  That's another thread altogether.

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Enjoy your path Sir Dent. Enjoy your path.

      2. Rastamermaid profile image71
        Rastamermaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What I mean is,I have a problem with someone putting their hands on me.It would be an automatic reaction to strike back. I'm really working on that.

        Now words don't bother me,you could probably say some really awful stuff to me in my face,as long as you don't spit in my face or touch me,I would really just laugh.

        Because I know what's in my heart,my soul,my faith and I know me.I also know that you have a right to believe whatever your faith is,and I respect that.But if you want to berate me,chestise me,dog me because of my faith,what I believe,or what I am.

        To me this person just doesn't know,doing these things to me all while trying to get me to see their vision/religion as the one,doesn't have enough faith or belief in their religion to let it come naturally.

        @I'm more of and eye for an eye type maybe alittle worse but God's been working with me.

        1. Disturbia profile image60
          Disturbiaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          LOL, not to worry... I have no intention of putting my hands or anything else on you... or anyone else for that matter.  I'm just done with standing by and doing nothing while other people abuse me.

  8. Ingridwhidden profile image61
    Ingridwhiddenposted 5 years ago

    I believe that God would not tell someone where to go but would embrace that person. The bible says, "You have heard that it was said, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
    But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you (Matthew 5:43-44). If we would all do this the world would a more peaceful place to live in. There would be less violence and more compassion for others.

    1. ediggity profile image60
      ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You are very correct.  smile

  9. 0
    BIKTMIAposted 5 years ago

    Great point, attacking someone verbally, that you really don't even know, as a person don't really interact, with that is striving to be Godly, yea that something to think about. Seeking a problem,  that shouldn't be a factor for you. I do believe God would question that and the motives.

    1. Ingridwhidden profile image61
      Ingridwhiddenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you! If we surround ourselves with negativity we become negative but if we seek to encourage, inspire, and teach others we can make a difference.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Your thoughts on this were lovely.

  10. tritrain profile image78
    tritrainposted 5 years ago

    Well, turning the wrong cheek can really bite you in the arse.

  11. TPSicotte profile image88
    TPSicotteposted 5 years ago

    I guess there are two types of Christians, the ones who go with the big picture 'turn the other cheek' philosophy and the ones who get caught up in all the literal interpretations of each and every passage in the bible. Aside from the sins listed, there is a lot of judgment in there. Eating shellfish is prohibited, men shouldn't cut their hair etc.

    How do we pick and choose? Well many bible quotes have been taken out of context and used to oppress others. The New Testament likely wasn't intended to be a tool of judgment and oppression. I might be wrong but I prefer to think of it as a big metaphor for love, tolerance, and forgiveness. Using Christianity as an excuse to practice intolerance and judgment of others seems to be at odds with this basic message.

    1. pennyofheaven profile image82
      pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I like that. Love tolerance and forgiveness.

    2. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You have, in my opinion, the right philosophy. Thanks so much for taking the time to state it. I am pleased to see so many post who believe this way. I was hoping to draw in a few who didn't understand this, so perhaps we could hash it out with them, but they aren't posting. With luck they'll read the forum. I hope they pay particular attention to your post.

  12. SomewayOuttaHere profile image61
    SomewayOuttaHereposted 5 years ago

    ...i've no idea of what or where the discussion went...

    ....just swoopin' on by to say hi to AS!...Hi!...

  13. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Beelzedad wrote:
    Yes, we see this intolerance amongst Christians everywhere. Currently, one of the hot topics these days is the fact that Christians are causing so much grief to gay teens, they are committing suicide.


    Brenda Durham wrote...
    That's a load of hogwash.

    - - - - -

    me...
      Total  hogwash.
    It is their teenage peers who are terrorizing this group as well as any other group tht does not fit in with their prticular "Click"

      Religion has little if anything at all to do with teenage bullies terrorizing defenseless people.

      Those bullies don't care who they are picking on.

      They are bullies plane and simple and will continue to be until they misjudge a victon that beats the crap out of them.

      Unless that happens, they grow up to be adult bullies, and they are found in all walks of life.

       Even here on Hub Pages.

    1. Beelzedad profile image61
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      While I would agree there are bullies, those particular good Christians are specifically targeting gays.

      But, I do understand why you would defend them. smile

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

        1. Pcunix profile image91
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, it is so limiting to work within the confines of reality. It must be so much better to have imaginary beings who explain things to you.

          1. Jerami profile image79
            Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            And it is even easier to think that we know everything when we pretend that the world is as small as we would imagine it to be.

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You're on the money with that statement.

              1. Jerami profile image79
                Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Wouldn't the earth be a wonderful place if we were all as smart as some of us think that we are.

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  so true, so true. Right now,  when forced to converse with those that do, it might just be a glimpse of the hell we're all arguing about.

            2. Pcunix profile image91
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Right, it's better to make stuff up, That is SO much better than science,

              1. Jerami profile image79
                Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I have nothing against science,  In fact i love it, all of it and not just the part that I already agree with.

                  There is nothing about science that proves my concepts wrong.

                  When I read something that contradicts my beliefs I adjust my beliefs accordingly.

                1. Pcunix profile image91
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  But that's not true, Jerami. Science and very simple logic prove that your god cannot exist.

                  1. Jerami profile image79
                    Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Simple logic is a good place to start.
                    I like to think of things in their most simple of form; This makes a good foundation. Then build upon that.
                      The foundation must conform to the structure that you are building.   OR

                       That which we can build is limited to the foundation that we have chosen.
                       Anything else would not be logical.

  14. yankeeintexas profile image61
    yankeeintexasposted 5 years ago

    Just to keep on track of the topic the phrase "Turn the other cheek" does not mean I let somebody beat the daylights out of me! It simply means that we should not give into insult! It is hard not to respond to somebody who is insulting you and your family! But, when we threaten physically we do need to defend ourselves. Like the brother said earlier Jesus did command His disciples to by swords. Not to attack, but to defend! The Lord does not want us to argue, and attack people on every little thing, but He does want us to defend ourselves from spiritual attack!

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I agree. We do have the right to defend ourselves. I believe the Apostle Paul said every Christian should be ready and able to give an accounting of their faith. Or something to that effect.

    2. Pcunix profile image91
      Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Spiritual attack?

      Oh, yes, it is always so hard for me to remember that simple logic is an "attack" in the eyes of theists. You need your faith so desperately, like any addict with any drug, that anything that might wean you from it is, of course, an attack.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I know it is difficult for you to remember. That is why I try to be so patient. But please, do try harder.

        1. Pcunix profile image91
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Quite seriously, I worry about those of you who are so dependent upon your faith. You run some small risk of having it destroyed by frequenting forums where rational people can point out your folly.

          There are moderated religious forums that do not allow dissent. I would suggest that those who are truly dependent upon faith hang out in those places.  Your mental health is important.

          1. Rastamermaid profile image71
            Rastamermaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Takes more than a few ugly words to shake my faith!

            What doesn't kill me only makes me stronger!

          2. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You are too funny. Pot calling the kettle black on that one. Mental health. I can't stop laughing. I know your game. You're tired of treading water. I get that.But I'm pretty sure the only reason you continue to post within religious forums is because you are seeking answers.

            Wish you luck, but as I said before, don't look to me for answers. They are personal and you can only find them for yourself.

            1. Pcunix profile image91
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Unlike you, I am not satisfied with fairy tales.

              I've told you before why I post here: to help lonely and isolated atheists and for my amusement in making theists squirm. Your attempts to avoid reality at all costs do provide comic relief at times, but truly: I do worry about you.  I have no desire to destroy someones faith and have them enter deep depression.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Hey.I get it. This is an open forum. I realize everyone can see and you're playing to the peanut gallery. I think we both know what's going on. I promise to keep your secret.

                1. Pcunix profile image91
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  What secret?

                  I make no secret of it: I enjoy watching theists dodge reality and I like to help isolated atheists who are surrounded by people they think are insane.  There's no secret there.

                  But you probably have one. You want to convert, so that Sky Daddy will smile upon you and forgive your other sins. You fawn to an imaginary being and I can prove to you that it does not exist, cannot exist. 

                  You keep avoiding that little unpleasantry, don't you?

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Look, I cannot keep a secret for you if you don't stop talking. I'm telling you, it's more obvious than you might think. People can put two and two together. They are not stupid. Let's just stop it now, before it gets out of hand. Your secret is, so far, safe with me.

  15. wizbitz profile image75
    wizbitzposted 5 years ago

    Pcunix I think if you want to debate with this matters, you need to debate an "APOLOGIST". They can give much better answer than we could give. And their level of argument is the same as your level, I am sure of that.

  16. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    I do my best to turn the other cheek.Thats not to be confused with being a pushover,nope quite the opposite.

    Remaining quiet can be the greatest strength,and theres no challenge in being a smart mouth.

    No ,takes more strength to shut ones mouth lol

    Im not perfect ,Gods not finished with me yet

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      So - Jesus was lying? LOL Do not turn the other cheek - fight the good fight. No wonder your religion causes so many wars. sad

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I was not raised or educated in a Religious system,although I do agree in part that Religion has been responsible for horrendous wars.

        Mark,you have something in common with Jesus, he abhored Religion too!

        And no Jesus wasnt lying ,when he advised his followers to turn the other cheek.

        Are we perfect? Im not.

        Quit splitting hairs or I will have to come up there an bash ya Mark lol

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          LOL

          How is pointing out that people who claim to be Christians almost never act the way they tell others to behave, "splitting hairs." ?

          Honestly - if all you Christians were Christ-like I very much doubt I would have anything bad to say about the religion. But - guess what?

          Fighting for god? What a joke. lol If I was going to worship an Invisible Super Being I am pretty sure I would choose one that did not need me to fight for it.

          I am not kidding. If I saw Christians actually turning the other cheek and loving their neighbor as they love themselves - what could I possibly say that was wrong with that?

          Actions speak louder than words.

          Show me you love me - don't just threaten me with eternal damnation and call me a fool if I don't choose to believe the palliative nonsense you believe - and call that love instead.

  17. qwark profile image60
    qwarkposted 5 years ago

    Which "butt" cheek is the proper "butt" cheek to turn to when necessary?
    Either 'butt" cheek is acceptable to plant a size 12 boot upon.
    Just my opinion.  smile:
    Qwark

  18. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    I feel your 'lumping together 'ALL Christians in one boat is about as helpful as saying ALL Atheists ,or ALL Catholics, or ALL Republicans etc etc etc...feel or act a certain way.

    I know that is not the case,and Im sure you do too.

    No,what is in common though is a believe ,faith ,ethos.

    On that basis the subject, any subject should be debated.

    Christians are so called because they follow ( or desire to) but they NOT Christ.

    ( If a rep from a large company screws up, does that mean the Company is wrong?)
    No,not an excuse for bad bahaviour ,just the way human nature is.

    I think the real deabte is ChristvSatan, not what Christians believe at all.

    In the end we do not answer to one another ,or have to give an account to anyone else but God, but oh much more pleasant it is for people to dwell together in harmony.

    Any hypocrisy is nauseating I agree. Mark you have good head knowledge regarding the Bible.Im sure you know how strongly God stood against that as well.

  19. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    When you walk by a beggar on the street, you can think "Let God care for him".  When you are tempted to cheat someone, you can think "God's mercy is infinite; He will forgive my weakness and if any injustice is done to this other person, He will fix that, here or in Heaven"


    God does not say to behave in that manner ,in fact he says the opposite,of course you are correct in saying ,people could justify their actions ,but it still doesnt make it right in Gods eyes, now does it?

    Forgiveness is real if genuine, if one wants to play with God ,thats on him in the end.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      How do you know what god says? A while ago you were arguing that "turn the other cheek" does not mean "turn the other cheek".

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        How do you know what God says? or doesnt say ?

        Aarghhh...nope ,you confuse my analogy or me with someone else perhaps?

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No. You clearly tell us what god says.


          Wow. sad

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The Bible says what God says....

            Im not going to type the bible says...everyime I quote Gods word!!

            Shheesh

            1. 0
              Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Technically, The bible says what man supposedly says "God" says.
              The only real truth is experience apart from human influenced exercises.
              Meaning Creator dictating what to do v humans dictating what Creator thinks humans should do. Huge difference.

              books are books.
              Creator is not in a book...
              smile

              James.

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No ,but His instructions ,commandments,definations are (in a book) called the Bible.

                And my earlier reply was with regard to a previous post accusing me of speaking for God...anyway

                How's ya week-end?

                1. 0
                  Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Good, good, Eagle. You?

            2. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Ah - so when you tell me what god sed - you are not really telling me wot god sed - you are telling me wot u have translated wot the babble sez into words that mean you don't have to do wot god sed.

              And then you stand and fight and argue that you did not say wot god sed.

              That would be "turning the other cheek," I suppose.

              Gotcha. wink

      2. Eaglekiwi profile image76
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Just your perception I guess.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No, not really. sad

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            ???

            My answer supports 'turning the other cheek'

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes - I understand that you think changing the words to mean something else does not mean you have changed them - but at least you do not have to actually turn the other cheek like wot Jesus sed. Not retaliating is good enough for you because you say you love Jesus.

              Dear me. sad

    2. Pcunix profile image91
      Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Your "God" is imaginary.  I'm saying YOU do these things. YOU think this way.

  20. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago

    DoubleScorpion,

    Kudos on the credentials. A lot of work.
    Now, my itty bitty issue:

    This is where faith ends and religion actually begins.
    BELIEF in Y`shua has nothing to do with Eternal Life.
    ACCEPTANCE of the works, the gifts -- YES and everything thereafter.
    Compliance with law, does little --as we see today where law is constantly broken or altered.
    Hebrew law began as 1 complied command and became 613 impossible stumbling blocks of belief. Couple with additional civil laws adopted by the Greek, Roman, Assyrian and Babylonian cultures.

    Believing is something believers do, so what separates the sheep from goats -both are believers... Even --according to the texts-- demons believe too.

    I think what creates religion is that: just believing.
    Belief requires little to nothing, is not challenged and produces highly stringent ideologies.

    James

    1. Pcunix profile image91
      Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You can't see the incredible silliness of that statement?

      Do you ever THINK about this stuff?  If - IF - this incredible fantasy were real, demons wouldn't "believe".  They'd KNOW.

      I shake my head in despair.  Not a shred of logic.

      (I'm not picking on you - not this time anyway. I realize you are just reporting a bit of illogical nonsense from your religious text.)

      And here it is:

      Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

      Brilliantly Illogical.

      1. 0
        Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        PC, it is not my religious text, it is A theistic text --which apparently is okay for atheists to use against theists but a non-theist/non-atheist, such as myself, is not permitted to?
        Yes, I see your brilliant logic working here, sir.

        And what is with the "thou". (Charlton Heston voice)?
        Have you been reading the KJV again? LOL.
        James.

        1. Pcunix profile image91
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I didn't say you were not permitted to. I am just pointing out how illogical the text is.  Not your fault.

          As to KJV, yeah, I prefer to quote from that. It makes it sound even more silly.

          1. 0
            Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I see no silliness in the text, as it was written to imply something.
            That implication suggests many points.
            A key point in that particular text, speaks volumes of action ( gaining experience by doing, full throttle trying, testing, etc) versus the present day expression of a belief system.

            James.

            1. Pcunix profile image91
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If you can't see the lack of logic, so be it.  It's there just the same.  I suspect that, as usual, you just refuse to admit it, what with it being about Make Believe Invisible Pal and all his delusional disciples, right?  It would be disrespectful to notice the foolishness of the statement.

              1. 0
                Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                PC,
                Not for nothing and with all due respect, you express no real logic --sorry, not personal or anything, but you don't. Your logic is made of quips and squall, which to me --a seasoned philosopher-- makes literally and figuratively-- no "sense". Nothing you present is rational,  or has any fact (testable experience), only anger filled post-theistic rhetoric, else post-mortem slivered, ideologies of a masculine expression of The Ism (science).

                James.

                1. Pcunix profile image91
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I need no respect from you.

                  The words are illogical, whether you can understand that or not. The usual theist redefinition of words is a common method to avoid the truth that your creeds are full of contradictions and lies.  I understand that you need to do this. Don't expect me to let it pass unnoted, though.

                2. Pcunix profile image91
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  And yet, in that other thread, where actual proof about your imaginary pal was presented, you were unable to refute the logic.

                  There, as here, all you were able to do was pretend that I am inferior to your inintelligence.

                  Attacking me doesn't change reality.  It is you who make illogical statements, not I.

            2. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The key point being that you are doing what you accuse your theistic cousins of doing. You are spouting from a book and not trying, testing experiencing etc.

              You live in a city, breed, communicate via the internetz and pickle strawberries.

              If you did not spout - this whole issue would go away. As some one else mentioned - Atheists are society's damage control.

              But - as you are a big fan of labeling people - I have decided to convert to ignostiscism, so you can please refrain from lumping me in with the scientists who create the products you base your entire life around and then spend all your time telling people they should not do such a thing. Sound familiar? Yup - a belief in an Invisible Super Being will do that to ya. wink

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                See, this is what confuses me too. Twenty One days always posts so thoughtfully. Seems pretty dispassionate in his assessments. Why can't atheists agree with him? Or, at the least, concede the points he's made that no argument seems available on? It's a mystery.

                1. Pcunix profile image91
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Really?

                  So you think that his theories about sentient rocks make perfect sense?

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I believe the statement was, points that he is obviously right on. I have no problem with the concept that all matter has a sense of being. I suppose that's an acceptable point to argue though.

                    Please proceed.

              2. 0
                Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                pickle strawberries....

                You like that  pickled strawberries recipe  huh? Woop-woop!

                ps, I am testing: the words, the responses, the actions and those of my own also.
                and so far, I have a measure of experience and certainly much more to come.

                James.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I do like the pickled strawberry recipeactually - I plan on trying it when the gariguettes are in season this year. Sadly - last year - they were bitter and tough and I did not get the opportunity. big_smile

      2. aguasilver profile image86
        aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Not totally, many folk believe (know), but cannot/will not confess (declare) so it would be no wonder they tremble, for they know the truth, but cannot (for whatever reason) actually declare it.

        For Muslims to declare the truth of Christ would/could mean death, for JW's it would mean separation from their families and community, indeed for most religionists accepting Christ, coming to faith and declaring His name will lead to isolation from those who cannot confess.

        Matthew 10 16-33

        Behold, I am sending you out like sheep in the midst of wolves; be wary and wise as serpents, and be innocent (harmless, guileless, and without falsity) as doves.

        Be on guard against men [whose way or nature is to act in opposition to God]; for they will deliver you up to councils and flog you in their synagogues,

        And you will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a witness to bear testimony before them and to the Gentiles (the nations).

        But when they deliver you up, do not be anxious about how or what you are to speak; for what you are to say will be given you in that very hour and moment,

        For it is not you who are speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

        Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child; and children will take a stand against their parents and will have them put to death.

        And you will be hated by all for My name's sake, but he who perseveres and endures to the end will be saved from spiritual disease and death in the world to come].

        When they persecute you in one town [that is, pursue you in a manner that would injure you and cause you to suffer because of your belief], flee to another town; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

        A disciple is not above his teacher, nor is a servant or slave above his master.

        It is sufficient for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant or slave like his master. If they have called the Master of the house Beelzebub [master of the dwelling], how much more will they speak evil of those of His household. [II Kings 1:2.]

        So have no fear of them; for nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, or kept secret that will not become known.

        What I say to you in the dark, tell in the light; and what you hear whispered in the ear, proclaim upon the housetops.

        And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).

        Are not two little sparrows sold for a penny? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father's leave (consent) and notice.

        But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

        Fear not, then; you are of more value than many sparrows.

        Therefore, everyone who acknowledges Me before men and confesses Me [out of a state of oneness with Me], I will also acknowledge him before My Father Who is in heaven and confess [that I am abiding in] him.

        But whoever denies and disowns Me before men, I also will deny and disown him before My Father Who is in heaven.


        Scripture is not always as simple to understand as an intelligent man may wish it to be, it requires spiritual understanding, not just plain logic, for it deals with spiritual truths, not laws of the world.

        1. Pcunix profile image91
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, of course. Believe means "know".  Suuuuure it does.

          I love how you will cheerfully redefine anything to avoid looking ridiculous.

          1. aguasilver profile image86
            aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            ...and I love how you fulfil scripture so faithfully!

            You are the epitome of those who decry Christ.

            Your reward is certain.

            be·lief  (b-lf)
            n.
            1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
            2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
            3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.
            [Middle English bileve, alteration (influenced by bileven, to believe) of Old English gelafa; see leubh- in Indo-European roots.]
            Synonyms: belief, credence, credit, faith
            These nouns denote mental acceptance of the truth, actuality, or validity of something: a statement unworthy of belief; an idea steadily gaining credence; testimony meriting credit; has no faith in a liar's assertions. See Also Synonyms at opinion.
            Antonym: disbelief

            Courtesy of Google, also good for pricking puffed up buffoons. smile

            and for the record...

            know  (n)
            v. knew (n, ny), known (nn), know·ing, knows
            v.tr.
            1. To perceive directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty.
            2. To regard as true beyond doubt: I know she won't fail.
            3. To have a practical understanding of, as through experience; be skilled in: knows how to cook.
            4. To have fixed in the mind: knows her Latin verbs.
            5. To have experience of: "a black stubble that had known no razor" (William Faulkner).
            6.
            a. To perceive as familiar; recognize: I know that face.
            b. To be acquainted with: He doesn't know his neighbors.
            7. To be able to distinguish; recognize as distinct: knows right from wrong.
            8. To discern the character or nature of: knew him for a liar.
            9. Archaic To have sexual intercourse with.
            v.intr.
            1. To possess knowledge, understanding, or information.
            2. To be cognizant or aware.

            I KNOW what I BELIEVE because I know who I believe in, and He knows me.

            1. Pcunix profile image91
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No matter how much babble you post, "believe" does not mean "know".

              You really are desperate, aren't you?

            2. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Aqua silver. I know you already know this, but pcunix is wrong. Yours is a great post.

              1. aguasilver profile image86
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Pcunix is invariably wrong, so I don't post to correct him, but to illustrate his error for others to see.

                I was thinking about these highly intelligent secularists like him, lamenting really that they are so lost, when the concepts of mountains and mustard seeds came in focus, and God gave me a pictogram of a man walking through this world with a haughty froward attitude, eyes firmly fixed upon his 'reality' and unable to look or cast his proud and haughty eyes downward to see the mustard seed, that would allow him to climb the mountain of faith that he is oblivious about.

                The phrase "none so blind as those who will not see" came to mind.

  21. 0
    lcecil0582posted 5 years ago

    Turning the other cheek to me has always been a difficult thing to do.  Maybe that's the lesson to learn because it cuts against our basic nature.  However, I have come to a different understanding of this message as God giving opportunity for the offending individual to choose how you respond.  Do you strike out in angry at your fellow man?  What is the motivation for your anger? God is recording everything and since our spirit lives on forever beyond this physical world, God will judge how you treated his children.  Therefore, it crystallizes his message "turn the other cheek and blessed are those who are persecuted for my names sake", because it acts as a confirmation of his work in my life.

  22. hanging out profile image60
    hanging outposted 5 years ago

    Turning the other cheek is an interesting concept.

    If anyone smite thee on the cheek turn to him the other one also.

    this word smite is the focal point of this entire scripture. To smite means to hit with an open hand. Like a slap.

    No one ever died or became disfigured from a slap, or a couple of slaps - 100 slaps maybe. Here is where the world thinks that christians should be doormats.

    Jesus said love your neighbors. This is not to be mixed with turning the other cheek. They are to be discerned both separately and together.

    If a person is angry at me and comes at me with closed fists and seeks to put me in hospital, as a christian i may well defend myself and this person has not lost status of being my neighbor and next time i see him and he is not attacking me physically again, i may show him love, forgiveness and warn him of the dangers of going to hell.

    in discussions this is entirely another matter as there are many types of discussions, too many to go into detail, in fact, but with aggressive people who adamantly deny God at some point one has to decide where to draw the line. Gods word says:

    Matthew 10:14 "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet".
    This is drawing a line. There comes a point where discussion is fruitless and ridiculous and should be closed. But this does not mean that if the person shows a change of heart they are to be shunned for past actions, God is willing to forgive all past transgressions and start anew with every person and so should we. But God too, has in past and will continue to in future cut off the wicked from the good.

    1. Pcunix profile image91
      Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Funny how it is metaphor when you need it to be and direct when you need that.

  23. 0
    Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago

    Thanks, just_curious.  I appreciate that others can understand where I'm coming from.  I think if we listened to the person with whom we're discussing the issue, rather than simply fighting to get to them to agree with us, we'd all be so much further along in the discourse and so much closer to God's original plan.  :-)

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I agree, but it's been my experience so far both of the major camps consider it heresy. Maybe with two of us saying it we'll be safe.

      1. 0
        Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        We can certainly pray that's the case, just_curious.  If not, I made the decision a long time ago that I'd rather share my space with an honest sinner than a phony saint any day of the week.  :-)

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I'm liking you more and more. Look forward to reading your posts.

  24. Jefsaid profile image81
    Jefsaidposted 5 years ago

    Religion is an indoctrination of the mind.  It preys on the human emotions of 'fear' i.e. condemnation to hell's fire and 'guilt' of our mere mortality in the presence of god and that we should obey 'his' every word.  The fact is that certain people lose all sense of reality when intoxicated by religious belief and rather than see non-believers as simply people who do not conform to their views, they judge them as sinners.

    Jesus is a mythical character, a symbolism of Egyptian spiritual beliefs that have been plagiarised, re-interpreted and misinterpreted by a succession of conquering empires over the centuries. Religion is the original form of mass social management that is re-written periodically to keep it current and effective.  It contains many 'get-out' clauses for example 'god moves in mysterious ways' which is the ultimate diversion from its many contradictions.

    Far Eastern philosophy based cultures have existed and progressed over the same period if not earlier than Western religions and have its foundations centred around the ultimate goal of being at one with life. Its philosophies are clearly recognised as being derived from fellow human beings.

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well, that's an odd post, but ok. So, I take it you don't play the eternal damnation card. Good to know.

      1. Jefsaid profile image81
        Jefsaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        just-curious I am curious to know why you see this post as odd?

  25. 67
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    Christians; Do You Turn the Wrong Cheek?

    I think in present tiem they hardly do it.
    It is a lip-service of the Church to allure others to their side; not a practical thing to do.

    Christianity's real face is altogether another face.

 
working