Mostly in Ireland
Nah, that's an old aussie symbol, who else would call it a sheela!
I don't think anybody here disputes that early Churchianity borrowed lots from pagans, sort of like how to make them feel at home in their new religion.
Constantine had over 30 religions to include in his version of Churchianity, hence altars, Sun worship, Easter and Christs Mass planted over the winter solstice and festival of Saturnalia.
The first name of this goddess is Sheela last name na-gig. Now the austrailian men call their women Sheila's. I believe this indicates that Irish men were the first explorers to go down, under? My bad, I freely admit to having a mellow buzz tonight. The celtic religions are quite interesting in my opinion.
The number of pagan beliefs and practices that play a huge part of christianity is quite interesting. Very little of christianity is original. It is a mashup of all the pagan religions that preceeded it and those that were flourishing along side it while it was still developing as a religion.
Other than sheila, although what she represents is all good. They are quite nice symbols. I especially like the celtic knots.
From the link:
"The figure is believed by many to date back to medieval times and is thought to represent a warning against the sinful, lustful nature of women.This was the period, in fact, in which the Church struggled to establish its power over the populations and waged war against paganism in all its forms. The natural world thus became the enemy of Christian spirituality, and the instinctive affinity of woman with nature (and, therefore, sexuality) caused her to be seen as a threat to the authority of the Christian Church and to male power generally.
In all his appearances the Green Man symbolises irrepressible life, renewal and rebirth, the eternal cycle of life, death and regeneration. The combination of human head with leaves and vegetation, moreover, can be said the be a symbol of the union of mankind with nature."
That makes a whole lot of sense. The Celtics were a threat to the Christians who wanted to kill them all for paganism and unionizing mankind with nature. The symbol would represent their defiance to the murdering, evil Christians.
It seems most indigenous cultures were a threat.
Sad, isn't it? And, to think that there are millions of people who still belong to such an organization that committed such atrocities.
It was indeed sad.
So do you think that people of todays organization should take responsibility for what people of their organization in the past did?
Not really, but I would seriously question why they would want to belong to an organization with one of most horrific and bloody histories on the planet.
Why isn't everyone joining the Nazi Party. They aren't committing atrocities today, are they?
perhaps the celts were a threat to CATHOLICISM but obviously this representation is not christian. CHRISTlikeIANS do not mix creation (created objects) worship with the creator worship.
A blended religion does please God.
Yes, I do understand how believers will deny their organizations bloody and horrific past for the atrocities it committed to millions of innocent folks in the name of their god.
Can it be said that people interpret a belief system different and believe to be worshiping two different gods? Take the Islam, extremists believe the Quron to be their word go to rid the world of the infidel and non extremists believe the Quron is a book of peace. Do they still worship the same Allah? Can Allah bless two opposing belief systems from the same book?
Interesting contradiction. And, while it is interesting to note that from the god of Abraham sprang three different religions with a host of thousands of varying sects within those three. The real crux of the contradiction is the fact that the messages delivered through the various prophets and messengers can and do contradict each other from one religion to the next.
I would submit that it is not so much whether or not Allah can bless two opposing beliefs, but how it is that the followers can so easily hate one another calling the other religion false and evil while still maintaining that the messages delivered are the same and it is mans perception of the messages that made all the difference.
Yours is a, surprisingly, profound answer. The major religions could do themselves good by pondering that.
Allahs message is NOT the same. In this once again you are WRONG as you completely and continually are, WRONG. The bible came before allah and speaks a completely different gospel. Do you not read hubpages forum posts?
concerning the different religions that sprang from abraham. In this you are WRONG again.
Only one way is inspired by yahweh but man will do as man will do. Catholicism has done much to damage the way of God and you perpetuate their deed.
The prophets do not contradict as i have proven in times past and have hubs about and you can research many a good rebuttal of contradictions all over the place.
If you are stumped by a certain contradiction, email me and i will show you once again where you are WRONG or do the research yourself, there is a thing called internet...
I never said they were the same, it is obvious to anyone who reads the bible and the quran that they both deliver different messages to their followers. I know you haven't read the quran and am curious as to how you comment on it's contents?
I don't think I am wrong about the god of Abraham and the religions that sprung from it. You can read about it here if you like and post your own personal beliefs on the subject.
you understand nothing about God or Gods ways. sorry but truth is truth.
Death tolls are given by historians such as Will Durant, who, in The Reformation (1957), cites Juan Antonio Llorente, General Secretary of the Inquisition from 1789 to 1801, as estimating that 31,912 people were executed from 1480-1808. He also cites Hernando de Pulgar, a secretary to Queen Isabella, as estimating 2,000 people were burned before 1490. Philip Schaff in his History of the Christian Church gave a number of 8,800 people burned in the 18 years of Torquemada. Matthew White, in reviewing these and other figures, gives a median number of deaths at 32,000, with around 9,000 under Torquemada . R. J. Rummel describes similar figures as realistic, though he cites some historians who give figures of up to 135,000 people killed under Torquemada. This number includes 125,000 asserted to have died in prison due to poor conditions, leaving 10,000 sentenced to death. (Death rates in medieval and early modern prisons were generally very high, thanks in part to inadequate sanitary conditions and a poor diet.) There are no death toll figures available for the massacres of 1391, 1468 or 1473. These numbers will likely never be known.
And since you continually state inferences that you suppose to be truths look up some stats from the hiroshima, nagasaki bombings at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bom … d_Nagasaki
and while you are out and about researching information from others sites than yourself look at the stats for WW1 and WW2
Then please spend the rest of your life in places other than areas you know absolutely nothing about.. maybe go to disneyland
Yes, it is such that us poor unbelievers don't have the same access to biblical scriptures like yourself... oh wait, yes we do. And, while I'm sure many believers like yourself will continue to think and speak for your gods, it becomes only too apparent that your descriptions and definitions don't even align with other believers of the same faith. Perhaps, your argument should be with your brethren before you bring it to the public.
Well, considering that believers love to always tell us the there are no atheists in foxholes, perhaps your examples of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the world wars are just more examples of believers murdering each other.
Could you please pray to Jesus to send me there? And, could he please make the airline and hotel reservations, too. A kingsize bed would be sufficient, thanks.
i see you are on the ropes again.
IF you cant honestly reply to a post then please stop trying to justify yourself as you self justifications fall short of reality.
Again you are wrong. You poor unbelievers as you put it (have access to salvation as any christian has had) do not interpret scripture correctly. I am sure you have heard or perhaps read that the carnal mind cannot understand the things of God as they are foolishness to them. Your starving children and disneyland was a supremo display of total lack of understanding. The fact that you say "perhaps your examples of hiroshima... etc.. of believers murdering each other" is parallel to the disneyland ribald. One day you may well understand that believers are not murdering one another, nor dropping bombs on each other until then the veil remains over your eyes and assessing your snide post that doesnt address the situation at all, that veil may never be removed. The time for seriousness is well passed.
as for your judgment about my beliefs not lining up with other believers, well that may well just be a case of time, in time they will, because they are accurate. and what makes them accurate you ask. I have oodles of time to study whereas most people work and have families, i have neither, so that frees up some 16hrs of my day to pursue God. Also because of indoctrination in certain beliefs (from sunday school even) many people are not open to the new revelations and as such with non believers and their closed mindedness, christians have a certain closed mindedness also, which, when necessary God will correct or not depending on how important these beliefs are to their individual and personal walk with jesus. The doctrines are not as important as how much one loves God. This revelation may be over your head as well.
Hey guys......whats up? SSSOOooooo Beezy, in your readings of the Quran or the Bible or whatever religion you have studied to come to the conclusion that these thousand year old beliefs dont hold water, what was your interpretation that God or Allah must have meant?
And, by making that claim, we are to assume it infers that you do interpret scripture correctly?
Yes, it is foolishness to use one's brain, I'm sure you would agree.
And yet, the clock ticks on and believers will continue to thank their gods for their abundance and their trips to Disneyland, and the children will continue to starve to death while your god sits back and does nothing. That is understandable.
Yet, the facts speak for themselves, yet again. Sorry, you feel compelled to deny facts.
Well then, I guess we'll all soon be worshiping you.
Wow, that sure is a productive life you lead there.
Yes, over my head.
Still on the ropes huh
Sorry to get you all angry and at a loss for intelligent response. I believe that you are one of those types of people that either refuse to "get it" or "don't want to get it". As i have mentioned before, anything said to these types of people is really just a waste of effort.
If i were of a bad heart i would laugh
but the fact is; sadness predominates.
Yes people will go to disneyland and vegas and skiing and to hockey games while some people go hungry and this amazes you. I suggest that if no body went to any of the above nor if they had any pleasure at all in the world that you would be happier because then you might have your proof of God or would you complain that God provides no happiness on this planet... with them, anything said is a darned if you do and darned if you don't.
I am truly sorry these types of people are here and continue to waste bandwidth and peoples time with their stubborn wrongness and incredible ignorance. It would be so much nicer to converse with people who had an open mind about God and were not just bent on negative in put on their sliding scale of truth and misinformation.
Are you in a wheelchair in real life? just curious
I have cut you off before for fear that you would drive yourself insane and after reading your insulting comments, once again the attitude of helping you keep some semblance of sanity, rises within me.
Good luck in the future, albeit, by your own belief and mine, that time is very short.
Is there some reason you feel compelled to start off with a applying venom to your response? Do you feel better now or are you going to tell us how your really feel? Yes, do that.
Actually, it does amaze me people go hungry, science may one day solve that problem - had thinking and understanding not been so repressed by the church these past millenia, science might have solved that problem centuries ago.
But, I'm sure you're statement borders more on sarcasm in that it's supposed to amaze me that the world goes round and stuff happens. And, the fact that I've talked about this subject before in detail is somehow overlooked.
Anyways, carry on.
Wonderful use of strawmen fallacies coupled with false conclusions. Nicely done.
Wonderful, start out by spitting venom and end with vomiting vitriol. How quaint. How Christian. How now, brown cow.
Yea so all I asked you is how you interpret the theology of religions. Dont get so bent out of shape Beezy.
Steven, I apologize if it appeared my post was towards you, it was not. If you look closely, I was responding to the very insulting post by brotheryo. You have never given cause to warrant such a response, sir.
The day a christian cannot spit out venom has not yet occured.
You get what you get
be assured it all very aptly applied.
sorry to offend, but that people should worship me is the very most offensive thing i have heard directed toward me.
Should i say what i really think about you - that would be unchristian.
trust me, i am being polite when i deal with you.
I only hope that one day, you learn something christian, anything...until then you are full of wrong statements and depricating remarks.
now where did protestantism originate? That's right - from catholicism
I think this symbol is beautiful. If you think about it, the vagina is the source.
from what is shown in the picture, it is not an anchient symbol
I am judging from my archeology studies so far, but it seems a fake to me.
I could be wrong, and have been before, but it feels like its more modern than an anchient symbol. Not sure
Modern religions usually borrow concepts from old religions or cults.
There was one mythic goddess mentioned in 'teeth' movie. Lol, that movie was hilarious attempt to control population of this planet. Ok, back to topic.
it gets even more bizarre. The NZ maori have carvings of their gods with genitals etc
Yes and these carvings and sculptures usually represented fertility. Our totems and carvings are similar to Inca apparently.
I see the aboriginal people of australia have their rock drawings with genitals etc
All cultures have similar themes
Yes agree. Greek Gods showed their genitals too if I remember correctly.
and the God of the bible said
"Thou shalt have no graven images of me"
carnal man is obsessed with genitalia
spiritual people and God are not
well, they weren't having graven images of god - unless god is female and exposes her genitals
Ah yes and then there is money, house, car, spouse, etc before God. No difference they are still graven images.
Mostly they have similar themes is because their beliefs originated from within themselves... their own imaginations. Just because they made a statue or painted on a rock does not make their beliefs correct.
There is only way to god and that has been shown to humans and must be followed by humans. We cannot replace God with what we think or want. God must be worshiped in spirit and in truth.
another stumblingblock? Not for me.
'Mostly they have similar themes is because their beliefs originated from within themselves... their own imaginations.'
....and how is your god not your imagination?
because after i knelt down and prayed for forgiveness for the sins of my life and asked God to come into my life. He has done just that. There was a blessing for a while and then came the time to learn and learn i have done and Gods ways are clearly written in the book so i abide thereby and when i transgress God reproves me (just as any other father would do) and i accept the lesson as learned and continue in the ways that God approves of and thereby God functions and flows freely in my life, teaching me new things each day. I treat him as a living being, having respect to his awesome power to change hearts and as my life has transformed into a christian life and style of living, God and i have grown closer - as it should be.
The fruit of my life is evidence of my faith and my faith is a product of a God that is alive.
Once again, those who stand on the outside looking in can only guess at whats inside, its only until one gets inside that they can experience the inside.
Imagination does not change things
Lol, I seen teeth.... disgustingly horrific
The symbol provided is of the 'Green Man' - a figure from pagan religion and folklore - he symbolizes the cycles of nature, the four seasons and the male component of fertility.
Notice the holly leaves and berries that form his horns/crown? This bush represents the winter solstice: because it bore leaves and fruit at this time when all the other trees didn't, and the pagan festival of Yule.
Yule time was the halfway point between the end of autumn and the beginning of spring. Once upon a time people had to lay in food to see them through the winter. At the solstice they would calculate how much of their stored food that they had eaten and so work out how much they would need to see them through to spring. At the solstice/Yule: on December 25, they would celebrate by eating any excess in one big pig out. They would also burn the biggest log in their woodpile on this day.
You might also find this interesting: if you look at the Green Man's beard (right at the bottom) you will also see mistletoe:a parasitic vine that also bears - inedible - fruit in winter. The origins of the 'kissing under the mistletoe' ritual that is still observed, after a fashion, today stems from the fact that pagans believed Yuletide to be a good time of the year to conceive a child. A child conceived around the time of the winter solstice will be born - nine months later - at the onset of Autumn and the harvesting of the crops: a time of plenty.
It is also worth noting that a child conceived at this time will be born when the sun is rising in Virgo: a constellation that was known to the ancients as 'the House of Bread' which translates into Hebrew as beth'lehem.
Wow that is truly interesting. So it seems the inedible fruit had dual meanings both for the embryonic stage of nature when winter is here and the ideal time to conceive.
There is a thread going at the moment about when Jesus was born. A fellow hubber wrote a hub on when she thought Jesus was born based on facts from the bible. It turns out according to her calculations he was born in September 11 3BC. Which is Virgo. Perhaps Christmas is then about when Jesus was conceived rather than when he was born. Perhaps this is where they adopted the bread of life into the bible and the born in Bethlehem is not a literal thing. Could be why no evidence Jesus existed was found because they are looking in the wrong place.
Don't know where I am going with this, but this is what came to mind.
I really find it hard to believe that people are still so bigoted and biased. Most of these earth based religions have been around long before someone thought up the "god" that so many Christians think is going to save them from some fiery place of torment. Most have no clue as to what these other beliefs are even about and refuse to learn (they are afriad they might be wrong if you ask me), They just wish to bash anything that isn't christian...things haven't changed in 2000 years...Disn't like Jesus's teachings so lets kill him... don't like the celts believing in nature because we can't control them so lets kill them...you don't believe in the "one true god", you are wrong and confused and going to hell ( means We should kill you but is against the law). The whole bible is filled with killing anyone or anything that didn't follow "gods" law...So answer me this....If "god" created all things...the why are only the "smartest" creatures required to worship him blindly??? Humans are so smart they can't see past their own stupidity... Animals, Plants, Insects...they don't worship...they just live...People need to wake up and learn how to seperate the physical from the spiritual. Personal Beliefs are only good for allowing you peace in your life...If christians believe that this so called heaven is such a wonderful place with no more bad things...you would think they would be "dying" to get there...(pun intended), but No!!! they want to live on this so called evil planet with all of us so called "sinners" for as long as they possibly can...personally I think these older beliefs systems have it right...honor and live in harmony with the people, plants, animals and nature around you...
interesting human account.
in the beginning God created... a good start.
the hebrews people were enslaved and building pyramids under the oppression of the egyptian people.. and God came to moses and said i will bring this people out of egypt... a wonderful thing for God to do. Note that man did not come to God but God to man.
After God displayed many signs and wonders that left egypt in shambles with all their made up Gods humiliated, God proceeded to teach his people how to know their God.... a difficult task but essential
my point being and for shortness sake.. that man did not come to the God of the bible but God came to man and in the entire set up of the bible (written by 40 different authors over 3,000 plus years) we see God drawing closer and closer to mankind, until He, God gave is own Son. Something i might never have expected in a creator God if he wants people to know him, but i am thankful for the expression of His character through that final sacrifice and renting of the veil from TOP to bottom.
Most God althrough time have been unknown and his character unsolvable, but the God of the bible clearly states himself so He can be known. Nature cannot answer people, nor did it write a book, but a God concerned with his creation can and did all these things and more.
First...The Israelites were in Egypt on their own account due to a drought...and because they were doing so well the new pharoah made them slaves...And Second...god didn't come to them first...read Exodus 2:23-24
23- Now it came about in the course of those many days that the king of Egypt died. And the sons of Israel sighed because of the bondage, and they cried out; and their cry for help because of their bondage rose up to God.
24- So God heard their groaning; and God remembered His covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
I commend you on your beliefs Brotheryochanan, but part of understanding who we are includes understanding who we aren't...One cannot know his house by only staying in one room.
And God didn't write the Bible either...Men did...and there are plenty of books written on nature and about nature as well, not to mention the various books written on multiple pagan believes and what about the so called Greek and Roman "Mythologies", Those are written about gods as well...Just because a person chooses not to read them or study them does not make them non-existant. And to be honest...If I was attempting to stomp out certian beliefs I wouldn't allow to many books to be floating around either...Ever hear of the Book Burnings that Hitler did while he was trying to accomplish his goals...
I read the church did a lot of library-destroying too - they didn't want people to gain knowledge
God gives knowledge... it doesn't matter what the church destroyed
yadda yadda... moses was walking along one day when a voice from a burning bush spoke.. and said
Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exodus 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
Exodus 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
im sorry doublescorp that you misconstrued my original statement about God coming to israel first but i hope these scriptures and the following ones if you care to read further, clarify this issue.
As for one room.. don't make me laugh so hard.
as for God not writing the bible... God has always used man to do his will... its all through the bible. I have so heard unsaved people say this over and over and yet saved people say just the opposite.. truly the one on the outside doesnt comprehend as much as they think about whats going on in the inside.
have a great day
apparently acacia has hallucinogenic (maybe that's where hallelujah came from?) chemicals, which would be released when burned. Moses could well have been high
Funny that you think that I am on the outside... And yes I have read all those passages of the Bible...I have read the bible multiple times...I have a PH.D. in Biblical Studies from Regent University's School of Divinity and I am currently studying for a Bacholors in Religion from St.Leo's University. I was simply pointing out a fact that those who only see things from one side miss the whole story...and you have helped me prove that fact. Also I never said that the bible wasn't inspired...I simply stated that it was written by men and not by god. Last time I checked all creative thinking is inspired...if you are christian then inspired by god...if you are muslim then inspired by allah...and when it is said that someone doesn't understand written word...then you are taking away what god meant by his written inspirations and adding your own meaning to the written word...in effect causing the bible to no longer be the word of god...As is my understanding...god will give you the understanding of the bible as is required for you to live as he intended. So are you on the same level as god? do you have the right to tell someone how god speaks to them? Aren't we the bold one!
By the way. Have a very Blessed Day.
Back to the figure, I'm not an expert or anything but I believe ancient celts revered women because they were the creators of life (not like God or anything, they gave birth and all that). Perhaps a couple thousand years ago, this statue wasn't "ugly" but beautiful to the people. I do think that many religions placed women in subservient positions, a lot of times considered "less than human".
A culture that worshiped women sounds like heaven to me....just saying.
maybe it was a symbol of fertility originally? (as well as celtic historical influences). Apparently in churches that still have these, the genitals are frequently missing - probably deliberately when the church treated sex like a disease
To a point it is a good thing to treat sex as something that shouldnt be focused on. It can take over your life, all that adrenaline..spelling...the stimulation can be like a drug, just look at Tiger Woods
Anyway, I dont think sex is a sin or anything that is wrong, I myself have five kids with my wife but I do think it should be something that is reserved for marraige. It is the only act that defines a marraige and when you take it outside of it, becomes just another thing that people do and marraige becomes something that just isnt important because those feelings of connection that should be only held for that person become deadened by all the other people that you ahve shared that connection with. Just my opinion, people do as they please as they always have so dont let anything I've said be taken as preachy or condeming.
"Another valid theory is that the Sheela figure had a similar role to that of the gargoyles that were placed on the outside of churches to ward off the Devil. In folk tradition, in fact, genital display is a powerful charm against the 'evil eye', and the Devil is said to flee from the sight of a woman's sex."
This is a peice from the link, I think it makes the most sense just because every culture had a JU-JU for warding off evil, dreamcatchers and such. If there was any sickness or wild animals in the area that was snatching people up or anything at the time it could be plawsable that the people created as many statues to ward off the evil that was upon them. I personally think the statue looks like an interpretation of like "Mother Earth" the way she has her self opened up. Generally speaking the only time a woman is opened up like that is if someone is coming out of her, than again I dont know the culture of the people and what their practices were on woman and opening them....could be weird.
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