When you look various churches today, what can we say about the weakness of Christians and churches? What are the issues that we are facing in the church today? If we see their weakness, how can we help and develop to be more effective and relevant for people surround us?
blind leaders and blind followers.....
Blindness is their only error....
Kess, in what areas, blind leaders and blind followers are blinded? Can you clarify your arguments?
Find the scribes and pharisees and you find the christians
Know the blindness of the scribes and pharisees and you know the blindness of the christians.
They both build a foundation of a false word of god...thus thier foundation itself is ignorance or blindness.
Kess, thank you for your answers... Is there anything that you want to say about the openness of the christian? Or you do not see any openness of Christian?
All a christian need to do is to forsake their word of god so that they may find the true word of God...
In that they would free themselves from their blindness and hypocrisy.
But I tell you truly as long as a christian remain a christian his blindness will remain.
I see,,... kess, can you share me about your belief? If i am not offended to you. I love to hear from your own experience how you come to know Jesus or how you become a christian? Or the reason you don't want to be a christian?
WHY DO YOU ASK THESE QUESTIONS?
Are you going to write a book, or sermon, or just boast among the brethren about the great work that god has done through you in this forum.
If that is the case then moast assuredly I tell you will speak falsely of me just as christian speak falsely about Christ, whom they call Jesus. and this is inevitable because they never knew him just as you can never know me....as long as you remain christian.
Any man whose identity is within a religious circle be it christian ,jew, muaslim etc, or a proffession as doctor, lawyer etc.., That one is in error and do not yet know the Christ nor himself.
For the Father does not make followers, for followers do not know what the father is about... but the Father only has Son...These sons know exactly the Father business and there isno heirachy among the Father nor the Sons...
So Just as the father is So I am and Just as the Christ is so I am.
So therefore whosoever seek after the second coming of the Christ and do not find it as themselves are still under the influence of the antichrist which has already dominated this entire world...and christianity as the chief henchman.
Kess , thank you for your comment. The reason is that i want to know the weakness of Christianity as i am a believer of Christ. So that we can learn from our weakness to be more like Christ in action, life and ministry.
Tell me more about your views on Christians, i am pleasure to read your comments
My friend...it is time that you leave the wisdom of men and seek the wisdom of God...
This means leaving the endless reading and listening to sermons and seek after the one and only Word of God..
The Father has already you all that you need to walk in the fulness of the His Spirit.... He gave you
...Ignorance which is the knowledge sin and death and reside within your own soul...
...the earth and the universe and all within it,
...The sensation of the flesh right up to the sight of the eyes,
...and a mind so that you can know to divide and combine, to put all things in their proper order...
In this mind you can recognise and know truth...
And this Truth is the Word of God which belong to you and is you...
Do not rest until you find it.. an when you do find it you have all the rest you need.
Seek to know not merely the words of men written nor spoken...but the word of God which can only flow from within to without....
clinging to superstition eg that disease is caused by sin/demons is not exactly helpful. Neither is attacking evolution with twisted lies.
And christians from different denominations are at odds with one another & argue that their interpretation of bible/doctrine is only true one
Being hyper-judgmental and treating their belief as fact is also highly irritating
Baileybear, thank you for your contribution! what else that you would like to say about Christianity today?
I think childhood indoctrination is wrong. Also christians do not take enough personal responsibility - every thing bad is blamed on humans or the devil.
I don't see how people living in a time when they didn't have flush toilets can be relevant today.
Baileybear, the point you mention " every thing bad is blamed on humans or the devil" is true. Some times, when good things happen to us, we just believe that it's from the Lord, but when bad things happen to us, we say that it's from Satan,. In fact, some are inflicted to us by Satan but not all.. Sometimes, because of our own wrong choice, we encounter problems and hardship in life. In such issue, than we don't want to take responsibility. I find that prayers, seeking God's will and asking his discernment for every decision that we make is so critical because God know the best for us and but if we ignore to seek his will in our life, it is easy to make a wrong choice due to our limited understanding... thank you for comment..
You just turned around and did exactly what Baileybear said Christians do.
You just took some of the blame for bad things off of Satan, and placed it squarely on man...but totally excused your God.
Are you completely unconscious of how insane your religion is?
If the masses of deluded people could start to think critically, instead of listening to absurd assertions like yours, this fraudulent belief would be finished.
Hey getitrite. This is just a good man, trying to find insight. I don't think he wanted to argue the point of religion. Your comments might be perceived as ludicrous.
Then I gave him all the insight he should need. His whole belief system is a fraud. Should I lie to this "good man?"
But religion is the problem. Organized religion is a scam that should be done away with. This should resolve all his questions.
Being angry makes you say some absurd things sometimes. Why don't you just say that you are angry with me.
I'm not angry with you. I was simply pointing out that your posts were so off base to what he is trying to accomplish that you are wasting your time, and not coming from a position you might want to remember later. That's all.
Van Lal Hmangaih should totally forget the 3 ton elephant, and go after those pesky flies.
So in that vein, I should say that more people would be brought to God through evangelists if they could get rid of weaknesses such as soliciting for money, condemning homosexuals, being outright hypocrites, thinking their way is the only way, thinking they are better than others, being prejudice, and turning their backs on "God's" people.
No getitrite. There are threads I don't post a comment on, because I don't have anything that I might believe to be of interest or value. There are a lot of OP's open for argument, and times where arguing is a very good and necessary thing. I just didn't get the feel from this one that he was looking for anything more than constructive criticism. Suggesting that he spread the word that Christianity is bogus wasn't something he would remotely consider.
As always, I could be wrong.
Hi Just_curious and getitrite... i appreciate both for your comments.. you help me a lot to realize the importance things that i should know..
Getitrite... in fact, Christianity is a an experience of living relationship with Jesus and until and unless you don't have living relationship with Jesus, you would never understand what is believing in Jesus.
But, i like your comments and i learn a lot from that. As much as Jesus loves me, he love everyone even those who crucified on the cross.. In fact, i am the least of the believers, but he still loves me. You know when we give our faith to Jesus, he can see something good in us while other people can not see..
I am still expecting more of your comments
Getitrite's comments aren't ludicrous to me. He hasn't sugar-coated his comments, that's all.
yet, God murdered more people than satan in the bible & inflicted all humans with illness, death and suffering for the first human's first mistake - eating a piece of fruit - what kind of parent is that to punish way out of proportion to the crime?
The God in the OT is no better than Hitler. How can you say you love him?
I've said this before, but I'll post it again for you benefit. By the atheists on this site's count, they say God has slain thirty two million since the count started. In the last hundred years atheistic regimes have slaughtered over one hundred seventy million. Perhaps, you could enlighten me as to which is the more deadly philosophy. If you won't open your eyes to the horrors of the world we live in, why on earth do you harp about the distant past?
Strictly speaking, you'd need to adjust the calculations for the number of people on the planet. When there are less people around, the total death count will of course be lower. However, that does not mean God was any less brutal.
Please continue to wear your blinders. It's worked out well so far. That is not the intent of the message of the Old Testament. That was a bloody world. If you doubt the Bible, read the history book you trust. That was the God for that world. The New Testament shows a view of what the world could be. If we'd work together. Whether we believe in a God or not, the lessons contained are invaluable.
are you making excuses for your god? you're comparing apples with oranges. What makes you think your god hasn't gone on to kill more? Especially if he/she/its the same yesterday, today, forever
Inasmuch as you have no concept of my concept God, we cannot argue the point. But, I do understand where you are coming from. Really I do. Transfer the blame from the shoulders of who it should really sit on. Go look in the mirror. Imagine 7 billion others doing the same. You might catch a glimpse of the magnitudeof the true problem.
I used to be a christian, so I'm not totally ignorant
No, I realize that. My concept of God just doesn't quite follow any party line. I apologize for posting harshly. I just get a completely different message from the scriptures than what appears to be the general belief. Sometimes, it seems God is credited and blamed for too much.
It's amazing that, with the phenomenal advances in science, people can still be persuaded to believe in the nonsense taught by churches.
The weakness of the church is that more people are waking up to the BS, and understanding that they have been outright lied to as a method to control them and their wallets.
getitrite, thank you for your comment.. Actually, as much as i am loved by Jesus, you are also loved by Him. Oneday, i pray that you would realize who loves you more than you love yourself.. It is Jesus who die for me and you !
If you have more complains about Christianity, please do it more and i want to listen more from you!
Based upon reality, you have nothing but a superstitious myth backing your statement up, making it, in essence a lie...this is a weakness--the inability to tell the truth.
No offense, but you really need to present some proof of these nonsensical statements you make. No one, to my knowledge, has died for me, and this is outright misrepresenting my life story.
No you don't. It goes in one ear, and flies out the other.
Sience progress may be phenomenal, most people are still mentally at a methaphysical stage.
Just look around and read the papers (or the forums).
How many of us would know how a pressure cooker really works ?
A lot of people still think that a kilo of lead should be heavier than a kilo of cotton and given the same volume, lead should fall faster...
So god is here to save his children...
I'm sorry. I didn't mean that.
I was just caricaturizing to illustrate the point of view.
For a lot of us, the only hope is god.
For some others, hope is in human species, solidarity and cooperation among humans.
Education and enlightening knowledge, in order to gain independence from superstition, blind violence, ethnocentrism and sectarism, so we can raise our children in peace.
The biggest problem I see is the people who are uncharitable. If we all consistantly devoted a little time each week or even month to the building up of our communities, and donated a little money to the less fortunate, then Christianity would show proof to the rest of the unbelieving world of the blessings which the holy life has to offer.
Onusonus, thank you for that thoughtful concern about charity. Do you mean that Christians are not engaging enough to social concern like injustice in society, charity to the poor and so on,.... I find also in this way, we, the church need to be waken by the Holy Spirit... I appreciate for your comment.
Not so much social injustices, but rather when I go to church I tend see too many members who just don't have the ability to get off their butts and do the things that they are supposed to in order to build up the kingdom of God on earth.
You have congregations full of people who love the lord, they come to church every Sunday, and for the most part they raise good families. But God want's more from them. It is a undeniable fact that the world is seet up so people have to be charitable in order for everyone to survive. There are destitute people out there and we need to seek them out, and pull them out of the mire.
Morals, ethics, the capacity for rational thought.
Other than covering up morally and ethically bankrupt clergy buggering boys behind the pulpit all the while chastising and spitting venom at homosexuals?
Don't pray. Take action. Do something about it. Immediately.
well thought and good suggestion, it is not only enough to pray for them, we have to do our part... i agree that. However, beyond what we can do in their lives, God's intervention only change them... We do our part and God will do his part... thanks for your comment
Update your entire story to something more believable. Most people just aren't that stupid anymore.
Honestly I believe it is hopeless for religion. In a couple more generations christianity will have become completely irrelevant.
Switch to buddhism or paganism or witchcraft. All of these are more believable and will of course last a bit longer.
I don't go to any church, but I can tell you why I don't.
Holier than thou. Do as I say, not as I do.
Everyone, except this particular congregation is bound for hell. Christian, or otherwise.
We've got some insight on the meaning of uninterpretable text.
We are going to be 'raptured'. Sorry, the rest of you will simply have to deal with the aftermath.
These concepts push people away. I didn't step away from the faith but organized religion, in the manner our religion has evolved, pushes an agenda I can't agree with.
Hi Just_curious, thank you for your interaction about my questions. If i am not mistaken your words, do you mean by saying this " Holier than thou. Do as I say, not as I do", the church leaders or the church do not practice what they are saying. Or they feel themselves that they are better than any one else in this world?
How do you think about the nearness of rapture? If i am not mistaken, seems that you are waiting the immediate rapture that will come for the people of God to be with our Savior? Can you more clarify your believe on this issues. I am expecting to read more of your comments... thank you for your thoughts.... God bless...
The perception many have, myself included, is that a large percentage of Christians pay lip service to their Creator. They do not attempt to incorporate the teachings of Christ in their every day life. This does not reflect well. And yes, at times it does come off quite strongly that some Christians might believe themselves to be better than others.
As far as the Rapture? Who knows. Jesus said that even the Son of Man did not know the time. Christians have anticipated the imminent return for over two thousand years. I think it might be past the time to realize no one knows when that time will come. To be honest, if there is going to be a Rapture, and that concept is open for conjecture; I doubt many of us have led a life worthy of the honor.
I have faith in Christ. Not much faith left in man's ability to understand the meaning of His message.
Well, that's pretty true, no objection to some points, However, i think there are also thousands who sacrificially give their lives for the Lord and His ministry . In lip service Christianity, i think we should take serious on our identity as Christians to be salt and light. It is true that we should leave lip service and practice in personal life..
How do you think what would be the reasons that many Christians can't practice what they say? Or do not practice what they believe? What would be the reasons and what are your suggestions to help them?
I don't know. The log in my own eye keeps me pretty busy. But, I think we forget sometimes that Christ, when preaching to the people, simply told them to look into their own hearts. No one else's. If we simply focused on trying to be better, as individuals, our example would be seen as a gift to the world; which might cause more people to understand the miracle of Christ. And want to know more.
Just curious pretty much summed it up for me too.
It seems people can see the wrongs of others, but not their own.
No one is perfect, and we are not going to be while we are here.
Stilljustwonderin, thank you for your pretty much curious on my question. You know i think in this way. As persons, it is very difficult to know our weakness by ourselves unless others tell us. That is my belief. The reason why i ask this question is that i would like to know how people see our Christianity? From that, we can learn what is our weakness, strong points and will find ways to progress in our journey of faith.
I think you will see some weakness in our Christianity. If you are a christian, you may also share with us what is your experience in the church and ministry? If you are not a christian, how do you see about Christianity? Anyway, thank you for your contribution
Hi. I am a Christian. As with just curious, I got tired of sitting in church hearing that if you weren't of that denomination you were going to hell. I believe God looks at our hearts and not what denomination we claim to be.
No one is perfect. I'm not perfect. I also felt like the preacher should stop trying to not offend and speak the truth. Ya know, step on my toes! My toes never got stepped on so I felt that something was missing.
I think the church, or at least organized religion has put our creator in a box they they can understand. They have made Him like unto themselves.
Therfore God has had to go outside of the box to accomplish a lot of His advancements. I am so glad He is not limited to organized church.
The biggest problem I see is that many know the Word but few know His voice. Paul wrote about some coming in word but that he came in power.
The Holy Ghost has been pushed aside by so many, yet there are many who still follow the Holy Ghost.
Many are still immmature in Christ while others are mature. They want to remain carnal in their thinking and in their lives while holding onto God.
Too many talk badly about organization instead of trying to fix it. God is not a God of organizations but He is a God of people. This doesn't make organization bad. God is also a God of order.
The very word evangelical is sinonimous with false doctrine, in my opinion.
ahaha... good! Can we clarify the reason why you say it is " synoninous with false doctrine" ?
See what I mean with this post?
Their word of god is ineffective and without power.
Nevertheless they persist with it anyway and cast the blame else where and as you can see with another false doctrine which makes their word of god separate from the Holy Spirit.
But without those falacies christianity cannot be.... so they must continue with the statue quo....
forever learning and never knowing...
well comment i guess...Kess.. in which denomination you belong to? Your opinion is good to keep in mind for better understanding how people see about Christianity
Not to appear unkind, but I think when kess describes himself as the i am earlier, he was implying where he believes himself to stand in the pecking order.
One more thing I think needs to be added. It is hard to get anyone to agree on almost everything. Everyone wants to go their own way it sems anymore instead of going the Way that is ordained of God.
It's knowing what is ordained of God Dent. And you obviously don't know.
even christians can't agree, so must be pretty hard to figure out what the right 'way' is
It really isn't that hard. Follow after Jesus. He knows the Way because He paved the Way and is the Way.
I am a Christian and would like to answer the question.
Main shortcomings of the traditional church:
1) Pastors are like celebrities. Personally troubled, immature, charismatic, larger than life personalities with alot of family problems and substance abuse issues. (This may be just the US, if you are in another part of the world maybe this is different.)
2) Churches are very control focused and enforce conformity.
3) Churches and parachurch ministries use high pressure tactics to fund raise, and the poor are a disproportionate target.
4) The church population is little different from the general population in terms of moral behavior and troubled relationships. Children of church leaders tend to be more troubled than average, not healthier than average. The divorce rate is the same in and out of the church. Considering that Jesus spoke so strongly against divorce, why aren't His followers at least a few percentage points above those who make no claim to follow Him?
One has to wonder how serious these people are about Jesus.
First, let me say that I also have limited myself to my understanding of the kingdom of God. I have also put God in a box so to speak. I have been and still am part of an organized group of believers who meet.
To get God out of the box, I would have to agree with Sirdent's comment. Many know the Word but don't know His voice. To get out of the box you have to obey His voice. Our actions speak louder than our words. His voice will always cause us to take up our cross, die to our own opinions and bear fruit.
And no, you can't please everybody, so just please the one who loves everbody.
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