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Is Atheism a Peaceful Alternative to Religion?

  1. 0
    just_curiousposted 5 years ago

    A few atheists on this forum are in the habit of pushing the argument that religion causes war.  Although the argument has a half a leg to stand on, I have never seen one admit that there are other causes of this unfortunate phenomenon.  I took a quick search of the history of atheism within the last few hunderd years and found that the philosophy has done its share of damage too. The following facts were pulled from a Wikipedia article on the history of atheism.

    The French Revolution of 1789 catapulted atheistic thought into political

    A bloody time in history.

    In 1844, Karl Marx (1818-1883), an atheistic political economist

    No one doubts the damage he began.

    The 20th century also saw the political advancement of atheism, spurred on by interpretation of the works of Marx and Engels. State support of atheism and opposition to organized religion was made policy in all communist states,

    Cold war death statistics are staggering.

    Richard Dawkins also propounds a more visible form of atheist activism which he light-heartedly describes as 'militant atheism'.

    Doesn't sound peaceful to me.

    Without a drastic change in the way this outlook is used when interacting with the world at large, do you consider atheism a peaceful alternative?

    1. aka-dj profile image80
      aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No. They pretend it is peaceful, but seem to deny the depravity of the human condition. War is caused by people. The trigger to act it out can vary greatly.
      I defy them to provide anty evidence that a totally atheist society would be void of wars.
      Education is their answer to all problems. Educating the whole planet's population is an unachievable goal. They can't even be fed, let alone educated.

      1. Beelzedad profile image59
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, we can thank the believers of the world who put us in that predicament over the past many centuries. And of course, believers are continuing to do all they can to stop us from trying to educate the planets population. Thanks for that. smile

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh quit the victim poor is me approach.

          I think you seriously underestimate the ability for people to make up their own minds here?


          For at the base of any system of beliefs surely will be a matter of choice for individuals.

          A school full of bad teachers and bad students (go figure) surely does not mean we must silence education.

          1. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Not at all, the hard evidence for that is all over this forum. Believers do not make up their minds, they refer to scriptures to tell them what to do. They often will claim that without the rules of the bible, people will kill each other off. It's really quite hilarious.



            There are no choices to be made with religious beliefs, only indoctrination.



            True, but a teacher who tells you to accept beliefs without question or critical thinking is not teaching, they are instead indoctrinating. Big difference. smile

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Not at all, the hard evidence for that is all over this forum. Believers do not make up their minds, they refer to scriptures to tell them what to do.

              Your perception is your reality. I see Christians quoting why they beleive ,much the same way in which you quoted Wikipedia on another post.

              There are no choices to be made with religious beliefs, only indoctrination.
              Some religions may well indoctrinate. That does not make God not true however.

              1. Cagsil profile image82
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The formation of the belief itself proves no god exists. All religion supposedly inspired by a god or claiming a god's will, yet the forming of the belief itself is a selfish action. Therefore, all actions afterward are also selfish. wink

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                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The formation of the belief itself proves no god exists? What kind of an argument is that? Unless you're saying what should be stated instead is that one knows a God exists. I think most people who state the first assume the second is implied.

                  1. Cagsil profile image82
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    My point is the belief itself is selfish. Yet, religion preaches selfless action, in order to be in god's will/grace. Therefore, no god exists.

                    Putting oneself before others is a selfish act. Meaning, that if you believe in a god that gives everlasting life in heaven and you want it for yourself, then you've committed a selfish act.

                2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Ok how about this:

                  Before I knew this man Jesus Christ ,I had no purpose or direction,lots of why questions ,and is this all there is kinda curiousty?.

                  People I loved dying ,the world always at war.
                  I grew disappointed with me ,my fellow man and began to wonder about this man who walked upn the earth 2,000 years ( actually the time factor isnt an issue with me,but I read Proverbs ,then Corinthians ,then Micah (heavy) but good ,and before I knew it ,it helped me understand many things in my world.

                  Most of all God never changed his mind-that really impressed me.

                  I guess my point would be this:

                  What does it matter when it happened ,or even why it happened, what is important did learning about this man Jesus Christ help me.
                  Yes it did smile

                  Do I kill people ,no I dont ,do I even want too ,definately not.
                  Am I a better person ,my family and friends think so, that is my reality.

                  The bottom line is if I die and find out ,Jesus never existed ,my life was still better and somehow purpse fulfilled. smile
                  I am no pyscologist ,so I only speak from a personal experience.

                  1. Cagsil profile image82
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    If you're dead, how are you going to find out anything? The loss of complete consciousness is death. wink

                  2. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That's a very good philosophy. Of course, I'm somewhat prejudiced since I'm mostly on the same page as this. smile

            2. 61
              passingthewordposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Beelzedad i don't think you have read the bible.  why do  you hate those that believe in Jesus Christ. I haven't killed anyone. but you categorize me as one that hates ,kills est. what is up with you?
              The Word of God encourages people, makes them feel good. don't put them down because a person that says that they are Christian goes out and kills. THats like saying all black are the same, all whites are the same. A lot of people twist the word of God to make it say what the want it to say.

              1. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                If you say so.   



                Where did I ever make that claim? 



                Yes, and you did a marvelous job of twisting. smile

        2. aka-dj profile image80
          aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, and I can see all the atheists of the world working overtime trying to feed all the starving!

          How many atheist NGO's provide this service service again?
          As opposed to christian efforts. I forgot!

          1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
            Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That's like asking how many organizations of people who do not believe baseball is a great game have charities? It's a stupid question. Atheism is not an organization. How is it expected to organize charities? We damn well contribute to them, I can tell you that. There are a lot of secular charities who have many atheist members and workers. Is it really that difficult for Christians to figure out what the word atheism means even after we have told you a thousand times on these forums?

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hey Slarty. I think I have the solution. Y'all should band together. Start a charity or two. Settle the whole argument once and for all.. Name it something like, 'National Organization for the Good of the Downtrodden.' Or NOGOD for short. It would kill a couple of birds that seem to bother the atheists with one stone.

              1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
                Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Thats a plan I suppose but why. What do you think bothers us. The only thing that really bothers us is that Christians can t get a handle on what the word atheism means. Its really not that hard a concept but Christians get it mixed up with dozens of other unrelated concepts and then build strawmen to attack, as is evidenced by your forum question.

                You did say you liked it when people disagree with you, didn t you.

                My darn question mark key doesn t work for some reason this morning, in case you or anyone is wondering.

            2. aka-dj profile image80
              aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              We have also told all you atheists a thousand times not to confuse Christians with the religious.
              Y'all don't get that too well either!

              1. Cagsil profile image82
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                roll

              2. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
                Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                News to me. You mean Christians are not religious?

                1. aka-dj profile image80
                  aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Boob-Boom!! big_smile

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    lol

                  2. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
                    Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Explain your fantasy about this to me. Which cult are you from? lol...

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        aka-dj, I agree with you.

      3. qwark profile image60
        qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        AKA:
        I'm standing, clapping, whistling and stomping my feet in approval!
        Well said!   smile:
        Qwark

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          aka-dj wants to educate people that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ and evolution is a lie to attack the word of god.

          Jesus speaks directly into his head and he thinks fighting for Jesus is right and proper and the only reason there are arguments is because us atheists will not accept the truth he wants us to see.

          I can do without that sort of education. sad

          1. qwark profile image60
            qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Mark:
            Regardless, he spoke the truth in his last message.
            Extant man is an uncontrollable beast.
            If it weren't religion, he'd find other reasons to destroy himself.
            Universal education is impossible.
            2 thumbs up AKA.
            Qwark

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Maybe. That makes it OK that religion destroys us? Myself I prefer to try and educate people, but - you may be right - and like the religionists say - the final conflict is coming and it is not worth trying to stop. Perhaps it is a wasted effort.

              1. qwark profile image60
                qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Mark:
                Just my opinion...of course it's not worth trying to stop.
                Ya can't stop what has already been determined by human ignorance, greed and genetic predatory programming.
                Religion is not what is destroying us.
                All life is ruled by the processes of SOS (Stimulus,Organism,Response).
                With "will" we humans can control the "response" aspect.
                But "we" are much to infantile to offer our predatory genetic programming much resistance.
                As you know, curiosity, fear and imagination created religious belief and we have not yet evolved to the point that gained knowledge will relieve primitive fear of our mortality and will allow us to progress to our maximum abilities...which are indescribably dynamic.
                Qwark

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I disagree - I think we could change it if we chose to and religion (with money) is one of the stumbling blocks. Money will be harder to eradicate.

                  1. qwark profile image60
                    qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Mark:
                    Change? Sure
                    Give me a short scenario of the possibility of that change that isn't just idealism.
                    I can't see anything happening that will be advantageous over the long run.
                    Qwark

          2. spiritualspark3 profile image59
            spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            @ Mark Knowles

            Hi Mark,

            I read all of your arguement's.  1. you can do widout eductaion... offcourse the basic education covers, a. eat for body b. sleep for body again.
            c. have sex d. defend. these for qualities are common in Humans and Animals, and may be one reason for saying "Man is a social animal" is this.

            Taking a birth as a human being is all about superior intelligence that lord has given us top think how to escape to a better world where there is life of eternity, bliss and full knowledge (no more ignorance about self and god).

            1.What ever wealth  or relationships u made  in this life, u brought nothing with.
            2. Nothing will even go with you(give all the money to the best doctors and ask them bring even one second more to your life once you will be dead.)
            3. Where will u go after that, u don't know, what do u take with u nothing, what in actual u take to ur next life? Next life,,,, What's the proof? Is that ur question now?

            Offcourse there was previous life and lives that decides to be born as rich or poor, beautiful or ugly, brainy or physically challenged, American or Indian, so on nd so forth. You never pay for anything u do not buy,  do u?
            Similarly, you bought this life, and now u are buying more stuff and the best is ur beliefs and ur knowledge that decides your life... as per deeds and there reactions u will incur...

            I hope at least u believe in, "To every action there is equal and opposite reaction", it stands for everything before, within and after life Mark as its the Best law of  God as well as of the science (atleast there are no assumptions in this unlike most of other laws) & it has best nd maximum no of practical examples material and physical.

            What would be more interested in listen to Mark?

            Cheers, hope this leads to a healthy conservation :-)

            .

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Oh Im sure it will  lol

              Amen

      4. 59
        kdupreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree.

      5. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
        Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        LIke myself, when I claim that religion causes wars, I dont claim that it causes ALL wars. You are arguing against a strawman. So what if some wars were started by atheists.

        You cant possibly say that it was their lack of belief in any of the gods that caused them to start the war.

        What a ridiculous thing for you to say.

        1. aka-dj profile image80
          aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That's not what I said.
          You might like to re-read!

    2. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Communism is based on Christianity, that is an old and tired argument. Communism isn't about atheism as much as it is about everything within a given society including economics, production, military, ownership, education, etc. etc. etc.

      Of course, dishonest Christians will only focus on the one.



      Yes, I can see how you dishonestly would write something like that without actually finding out what it's all about.

      Do people call you a "Militant Atheist"?  Good, then tell them what Militant Atheism is not.  It is nothing like Militant Islam or Militant Christianity, where the weapons of choice are guns, explosive devices, and weapons of mass destruction. Our weapons of choice are reason, logic and science.  Our system of delivery for this ammunition are books, websites and science journals.  We counter the fairy tale, delusional conception and memetic mind virus of religion with facts, proved theories, universal laws and, above all, reason.

      ~~ Al Stefanelli on the Richard Dawkins Foundation.



      Yes, dishonest Christians will paint such a picture of atheism all the while ignoring the facts. smile

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Dishonesty no matter where its from will always paint distortion.

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And, your point is... ?

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            My point was self explanetory.

            1. Beelzedad profile image59
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              In other words, no point at all. That's what I thought, too. smile

        2. Cagsil profile image82
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Distortion is dishonesty based. lol

      2. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So, are you saying a dishonest Christian wrote the Wikipedia article? I just cut and pasted. You aren't calling me dishonest are you? sad

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Of course, you dishonestly cut and pasted those quotes without looking into them and then offered your own misinformed opinions. That most certainly is intellectually dishonest. smile

          1. aka-dj profile image80
            aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I know for a fact, you are guilty of the same ting.
            People in glass houses....well, you know the rest!

            1. Beelzedad profile image59
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol

          2. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I missed this. Ok, you're right. I took a simplistic statement and added a simplistic conclusion. This is exactly what you do in arguing that religion causes war. Shame on you for chastising me for copying your tactics. I'll tell you like I told Mark. Up the game. This argument is old. smile

            1. Beelzedad profile image59
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Considering the fact that history is rife with religious wars, you haven't a leg upon which to stand.



              lol

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Why are you laughing? How come you think I should do as you say, but not as you do?

                I do see that history is replete with examples of religious violence, and thanks to a comment by super wags I think it has finally come home as to how christian values are still causing trouble.

      3. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Since you implied either I was dishonest or Wikipedia (and I know you respect Wikipedia) I would like to clarify why I posted this thing.  It has nothing to do with thinking atheism killed 150-170 million people.  I don't believe that in any way.  I simply think that one has to be realistic.  Governments suck.  Rather blunt, but it's the truth.  Power corrupts.  No matter how religious or non religious a person is, people crave power and they will do whatever they can to increase that power given the means and opportunity.  To blame the troubles of the world on religion ignores the fact that altruism is usually thrown out the window as soon as power becomes part of the equation, no matter what your stated stand on the spiritual.

    3. superwags profile image80
      superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Atheism has never started a war that I'm aware of. You're simply mistaking correlation for cause in a number of the points you've made. It is true however that in states where there is an overhaul of the entrenched political system, religion is often targeted because these are strong organised bodies which have aligned themselves to the people in power. But this happens of the new system that takes over is religious in nature too.

      I think your critique of Marx is unfair and also of what Dawkins refers to as "militant atheism" - you obviously haven't taken the time out to understand what he means if you think he's advocating something violent or non-peaceful.

      Having said that, I do tend to agree with you that few wars are started over a religios idealogy. Throughout history religion has usually been used as a cover for warfare. There are exceptions to this though, the crusades and the religious wars in Europe in the 16th and 17th century were inspired almost entirely by religion, for example.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi wags. I appear to have plucked a few nerves with this one. I don't contend that atheists are war mongerers. You've always seemed level headed with your posts. I do suffer from a few adversaries here that contend that religion is responsible for all wars. I simply threw this out there so they would understand that a simplistic argument can go both ways. Thanks for posting basically the same belief.

        1. superwags profile image80
          superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I know that you'd set out to "pluck a few nerves" (of certain people in particular!) and as I say, I largely agree with you that relgion doesn't cause wars by itself. Having said that religion is responsible for some pretty horrific violence going on in the world right now. The Suni-Shia violence across Iraq, the almost daily attacks in Pakistan, the awful violence (that we never hear about) in northern Nigeria, Democratic Republic of Congo... It does have a lot to answer for.

          You could argue that this is also down to political reasons and that it's people doing things because of a misrepresentation of their particular religion, but unfortunately it's still the religion which allows this misinterpretation.

          A bigger problem with religion as far as I'm concerned is that it holds people apart and this causes violence. If people could inter-marry freely between religions then you would see a fall in such violence.

          Also if you were to teach people the same secular ideals then that would be better too, the idea that religion is some sort of moral touch-stone is just plain wrong.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I completely agree with you.

    4. oceansnsunsets profile image88
      oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      History and even recent history agrees with you.  You can't argue with the facts.

    5. oceansnsunsets profile image88
      oceansnsunsetsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You need to watch out that people that use the argument you mention are often going after Christianity in particular, even though their prophet taught opposite of war.  The atheists I see here argue by using the heretics of a religion, going against its teachings to make their argument.  This shows their hand.  It shows how they are willing to use poor arguments to make a case.  There is no case however.

      There HAVE been crusades in history that killed so many, that another religion IS following their prophet and teachings by doing the killing and terrorizing.  IF they were just criticizing that religion more fairly they would have a point. 

      So, the facts matter, and its good to note the tactics that come into play.  When you have to use examples of people that are going AGAINST their religion, as the means to attack that religion, you make the point for the religion itself oddly.

      1. superwags profile image80
        superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Unfortunately for all of us, a religion whether Christian or whatever is only as true as the perticular priest, immam, etc tells you and its open to interpretation.

        The ability to cherry pick from texts written in the iron-age means that there is an ability to interpret in a truely awful way; to encourage violence, segregation, beatings, hatred actually pretty much anything you feel like. It's just a fact. It opens the door for people to twist words to their own ends; atheism can;t do this because there's no etrenched ideology there.

        This doesn't mean that an atheist then can't have another ideology or agenda, but this isn't the same thing...

    6. 68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Atheism began with confusion and frustration and it brings chaos to the human society, whenever it gets a chance; they don't have a peaceful history worth the name.
      I agree with you.

      Atheism is sure no alternative of a Revealed and Truthful Religion.

      1. superwags profile image80
        superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        But don't you agree that nobody commits violence in the name of atheism? I can't think of an example. There've been examples of atheist regimes demolishing the structure of the organised religions in their countries; USSR, France - post revolution - and Cambodia etc, but this was to break up the big bodies of power that had aligned themselves with the previous regimes. But this happens fairly frequently in history with religious regimes too, probably far more so.

        Every day somebody commits a heious crime in the name of religion. Nobody does so in the ame of atheism.

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Atheism is not organized; so everytime they make violence they do in a new name.

          1. pisean282311 profile image58
            pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            true and they are so less in number that competing with religions as far as violence goes is not possible...religion is number one killer and no one can compete with them...

          2. superwags profile image80
            superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No, they do it for another reason other than atheism. There's quite a big difference!

    7. Titen-Sxull profile image95
      Titen-Sxullposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Atheism is a stance on one question. Here's how it works

      Theism - Belief in god(s)
      Atheism - No belief in god(s)

      The events you're talking about were driven by political ideology not a lack of a religious ideology.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I completely agree. You'd be surprised how many don't see that political ideology, in this day and age, is one of the primary forces behind policies of governments in the free world. This was presented simply to make that point.

    8. Stevennix2001 profile image83
      Stevennix2001posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The reality is that as long as people are divided in some way either via race, socially and/or economically, there will always be wars that plaque our societies. I understand when most atheists argue the religion caused many wars, and it has.  Just look at the crusades for instance.  However, as I always said before, it's the person using the religion to start a war in the first place is the one we should be worried about.  Not the religion itself.  No, atheism is not a religion, but it's a different point of view.  Everyone has them, whether they choose to believe that or not.

    9. Shahid Bukhari profile image61
      Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Atheism ... is the the ignorant's State of warring ... with God.

      And Yes, in Atheism  ... meaning, False religions, and beliefs ... War happens to be the only ... Route ... to Peace ... among human !

      1. Cagsil profile image82
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        lol lol Boy are you too funny. lol lol

      2. pisean282311 profile image58
        pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        @shahid it is 200 times better to be in state of war with something unproven since 0.2 million years than being at war with fellow human beings for unproven entity...atleast one can see fellow human being , feel their pain ,joy,aspirations...

        1. Shahid Bukhari profile image61
          Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I am talking of Humanity ... not the warring Islamists, or the modern day's "Religious" groupings ... like the Trinitarian Christians, or the Unitarian Jews ...

          Do you believe, that one group of humans, has some sort of a Divine Right to "feel" more of anything, than the other humans ?

          And I do not agree with your hypothesis ... sanctioning Warring ... as the only route to an Understanding of Reality.

          Because, your need, for a Proof ... of God ... and His Creation, manifesting the Existential Totality, is a few thousand years old ... and cannot Transcend... The Existent's Existence ... Created by Him ...
          Yours, is only a threatening posture, for claiming a prejudiced sort of  Understanding.

          God, Is ... and He does not need, your Rational Conformings, or Warrings ... For His Created,  to Exist ...

          Remember ... According to your Science's Empirical, and your Theory's Logical estimates, "Formal Existence of an Evolving Species ... Humans ... cannot  be considered in an isolation, spanning 0.3 million years ... "

          That ... "Humans are considered being 'made' of the Matter of exploded Stars ... Thus, human Existence deemed considerable, within a Relative Universe ... where, the Universe's Existence, in Theory, Spans a 3.7 billion light years Expanse ... within the Illogical idea of "Self-Existence"... !

          1. pisean282311 profile image58
            pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            i am not sanctioning warring ...i am sanctioning standing against a concept called god which remains unproven and would remain unproven because being which exist can only be proven...

            religion has done both good and bad for humanity at same time...religion has contributed in directing human race and i dont disagree with that...yes religion has been great contributor but crusader , islamist , riots in name of invisible , unprovable god is also part of human history...it is ridiculous that people can demean fellow human for sake of unproven but that is how humans have been...

    10. Orygyn profile image61
      Orygynposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There's a difference between atheism causing atrocities and atheists causing them. With religion, a direct link can be made. If someone dies because they believed that god would cure them and that didn't happen, that can be linked directly to a belief in god. Atheism is the absence of such religious beliefs, so it would be very difficult to carry out an atrocity "in the name of atheism".

      Having said that, this is all just cheap point-scoring. It is irrelevant in light of the bigger question of whether or not a god exists. The number of people killed in the name of each side does nothing to change whatever is the correct answer to that question.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree. But to blame all violence throughout the centuries on religion has been the claim of some here. If you do that then you have to admit the claim of atheism causes violence too. It has to go both ways, or neither.

    11. Pedroemose profile image59
      Pedroemoseposted 5 years ago in reply to this



      Yet another way of saying, "there would be no war if everyone agreed with the way I think."  Sure.  But the only problem with that is that in order to get to that peaceful world, you have to either convince or kill everyone who disagrees with you -- whether you are an atheist *cough* Stalin *cough* Pol Pot *cough* or a religious person.

    12. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
      Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Communism is not atheism. I'm an atheist but not a communist. I advocate democracy. Communism wanted to be the only controlling interest in the country. The churches have always ruled and communism doesn't want competition.  That's why it oppresses religion.

      What Christians keep failing to understand is that atheism does not equal communism anymore than Christians these days advocates theocracy. Should we remind you what theocracy does? Look at the middle east if you are unclear.

      There are a lot of secular societies in which atheists participate at all levels. Those who have killed their own people are despot dictators who would have been as cruel whether they were atheists or Christians or Hindus. Communism is an ideology, unlike atheism which is not a specific ideology. Communism is like a religion in that sense where as atheism is not. It would be nice if Christians could sort this stuff out for themselves. 

      What amazes me is that the US makes so much of their politicians being Christians. Most civilized societies have gone beyond that bias and stupidity.  While in the US a politician can not get elected unless they profess their undying love for Bageebus, in Canada a politician that professes any religious bias one way or the other hasn t got a hope in hell of being elected. Religion is off limits in politics in any true secular nation where people care about separation of church and state for the protection of all faiths and non-faiths.

      There are no atheist governments and there never will be because atheism is not an organization or ideology or political system. How many times are we going to have to repeat ourselves before Christians finally understand

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry. This was not intended to raise anyone's dander. I was simply trying to point out how ridiculous it sounds to blame violence on belief, or lack thereof. It appears, you at least half way agree with me. smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Why is it only believers that think their religion has nothing to do with the way they behave? sad

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Oddly, that is not what I said.

            Oh wait. That's not so odd. You never listen, or read. Of course that is the conclusion you'd come to. It's the only one you know how to type. lol

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, yes it is what you say. You spend all your time defending your religion and claiming it does not influence your behavior. And of course pointing out that all them other Christians are not real Christians so they behavior should be ignored. lol

              This is why your religion causes so many wars. sad

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                arghh. smile do you never get bored with this. smile What, exactly have I done that is warlike? Other than batting away at your silly attempts to attack?

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You wouldn't understand. Apparently. Silly attempts to attack? Dear me. No wonder your religion causes so many fights. sad

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    lol  it's a joke? I get it.
                    lol you're a joke? I could get that.
                    I couldn't understand what you're trying to say? Say something  intelligent and try me, or admit you are simply here to be a twit. smile

        2. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, sounds ridiculous and is ridiculous, but that is the way of religions and that is what they have accomplished.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well, since you apparently can't distinguish one religion from another, of course you get confused.

        3. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
          Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What dander. wink There is a difference between a belief system that tells it adherents that their way is the only way, like Islam and Christianity and Judaism, and atheism which doesn t say anything at all because it is not an ideology.

          Your religion has proven to be dangerous if adhered to in strict accordance with what the bible says. The only reason Christianity has settled down is because of Luther, who basically fragmented it to the point where it can no longer hold power anywhere.

          You had to separate church and state because you can t agree on anything and would be at each other s throats if you didn t.

          Can you imagine fundamentalists getting into power. Oh wait. Wasn t that the Bush years.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Ok. On the flip side. When will atheists get it through their heads that the only thing connecting christians is the name? It works both ways slarty. I have little more in common with another person that calls themself christian than I have with you. I follow little more than my conscience on this matter. This archaic belief that we are somehow a united army is just as tiring to me as the frustration you voiced. smile

            1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
              Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well that's almost true. But there is more in common between Christians than between atheists. A whole system of belief for starters. No one is saying present day Christians are to blame for anything that happened in the past. Just that the belief system is prone to oppression of people who voice a different opinion.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You'd obviously be surprised  at what some of the atheists  here are saying then. smile

                I'm just glad no one knows which house to show up at with pitchforks and lynch mob.

                1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
                  Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  See? I told you atheists have little in common. lol....

                  1. 68
                    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this
    13. chaunatye profile image60
      chaunatyeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think that saying religion causes war is absurd, it's obviously not the only reason, but it does make things a lot more difficult than they need to be.
      I did see someone else in this thread say that it's not necessarily religion, but the followers of religion. There are some religious people out there who take the idea of defending something they believe in to a whole new level.
      Most of the Athiests that I know, myself included, are generally pretty laid back people, we don't have a set of rules that we have decided to live by.
      For the risk of sounding like a horrible person, I hope in my lifetime religion is debunked, so people can go on living their lives for themselves.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm with you on that. Every one should be allowed to live their own life for themselves. Without someone telling them what they should believe in.

      2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        At least you are openminded and not blind to the treachery of mankind period.

        However you live your life -I hope its a good one smile

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The treachery of mankind? Your religion, along with the other Abrahamic religions have dominated the mindsets of mankind for centuries, providing the building blocks for treachery and a host of other atrocious behaviors. History is replete with such examples.

          That is exactly the "openminded" you referred previously as having your brains fall out. smile

  2. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago

    Yes - of course it is. You never see atheists fighting over religion with each other.

    Of course there are other reasons that wars are started.

    Not sure how this excuses religion though. I see this argument a lot from religionists such as yourself.

    "Things other than religion cause wars, therefore it is OK that religion causes wars."

    Why do you need to attack a lack of belief? Did your Invisible Super Being tell you to into your head?

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Morning Mark. smile I knew this would pluck a nerve in you.

      I'm simply saying, change up. The argument doesn't hold water if you make it appear as if religion, in and of itself, causes all conflict.

      And I am pretty sure the voices in my head are just me talking. I find it hard to shut up, but it's only me. smile

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I never said religion was the only cause of war. Dear me.

        This is why your religion causes so many wars. Sorry you do not think this is worth addressing and changing. I guess I don't really blame you. If I thought I was going to live forever and the real life was after I was dead - I would probably not want to improve the world either. sad

        ciao

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol Therein lies the fallacy of your argument. I don't think that way. The problem I see is that the aggressive atheist argument is that the world is all cloned, with the exception of the aggressive atheist posting. If you don't take the time to understand your fellow man you can't realistically contribute to any solution. You espouse a desire to look at the world realistically. There is actually a whole branch of learning dedicated to the study of the human condition. Perhaps a little study in this field would be enlightening. smile

      2. kirstenblog profile image77
        kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You know, when I read posts Mark makes what I see/read is an individual who sincerely believes that there would be far fewer excuses and justifications for going to war. A world with less pain because we are not divided by religion. I think it is admirable that he is so committed to trying to influence change that he believes could make the world a better place.

        It is something I struggle with. I agree that religion is to easily used to cause division that will always lead to war and also believe that religion is harming humanity. My problem is in my main argument, that I don't want religion telling me to believe in God or that believing in God makes you a good person or whatever. I want the right to choose freedom from religion and will not stand for someone telling me how to live, so how can I tell you or anyone else how to live?
        Even tho I truly believe that by keeping religion alive you are actively doing something very wrong and evil.

  3. kirstenblog profile image77
    kirstenblogposted 5 years ago

    My blood just isn't as chilled by your examples as by the examples of the crusades, the inquisition et all.

    I kinda think the point is often missed. Religion may not be the direct cause of war but it is one of the most powerful tools for evil people to use to start wars. Without religion it would be a lot harder to demonize 'the other guys' so that killing them is somehow good. It's down to the religious mindset being all frothed up into a killing fever that is justified by a belief.

    Atheism is no different in this regard. When someone is an atheist who's mindset resembles the religious mindset there is the potential for problems. This is down to human nature not religion or atheism. As far as I understand (and someone with good facts can correct me) Marx had his words and works twisted and used as a tool (much the way religion is a tool). I do not hold Jesus responsible of the actions of his followers (I also don't join the religion either, as I want no association with something I find so sicking as the power mongers in religion) and I do not hold Marx responsible for what others did with his thinking/works.

    I guess this is why I am none of the above. I just want the freedom to live my life and will allow others the same freedom I myself wish for. God can come have a word with me if thats not cool, my phone is operational, its easy to call wink

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Agreed 100%. I am simply saying that religion is a bad thing, in many ways; but we, as a species, are prone to violence. With or without it the atrocities pile up. To blame it all on religion is simplistic and counter productive to the search for answers to our problems.

      1. kirstenblog profile image77
        kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Ahhh Lord, lead me not into temptation!
        This is something I find resonates for some reason. I guess I think that religion is just to tempting to use for control. Maybe it should be, lord, lead me not into temptation or the religious mindset.

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol If a desire for peace is a religious mindset, I guess I'll keep it.
          Tilting at windmills has always been a favorite pastime for me.

          1. kirstenblog profile image77
            kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Tilting at windmills? Never heard of that before! Sounds like something you do when drunk? lol

            I don't think a desire of peace is a religious mindset, I actually guess that both you and Mark desire for peace. You just have very different ideas on how to make that happen, conflicting reasons with the central focus being religion.

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Cervantes. Don Quixote.

              I don't espouse religion as an answer. I fear the hatred of religion as a problem.

  4. spookyfox profile image81
    spookyfoxposted 5 years ago

    Here's the thing: there is no logical connection between those wars, and atheism. The fact that they were atheists who could've caused that war is as relevant as the fact that they wore hats or had moustaches. You can, on the other hand, draw a line between religion and war caused by religion.

    There is no logical path from 'not believing in god' to 'flying airplanes into buildings'.

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol

      Sorry . I didn't mean to laugh, but of course an argument can be made that there is a correlation between the philosophy of atheism and the actions of its proponents; if you make the argument that religion leads to war, unless you simply stop thinking at the point that makes you the most comfortable.

      Personal philosophies of those who govern directly impact the people forced to life within their rule. It is the nature of government.

      1. spookyfox profile image81
        spookyfoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You're saying that someone who dislikes religion because it can generate wars, will too start a war to end religions?

        Religions include moral codes. Lack of religion does not. You might believe for such and such reason that a war might be necessary, but you can't tie that directly to the fact that you do not believe in god. Believing that religion is wrong and should be stopped is not atheism.

        I'll give an example: someone claims there are slaves working in my house. I know for a fact that there aren't, therefore, I don't believe this person. I simply don't believe.

        Now, does that mean that I am either in favour or against slavery? No, you can't know either way just by knowing I don't own any slaves. But indeed if someone wanted to have slaves in my house, I'd oppose to it.

        But the fact that I would, or wouldn't oppose to it (engage into a confrontation with someone) isn't necessarily related to the fact that I don't believe a person telling there is such thing.

        If I did believe them, and as I said, opposed to it, there is a correlation between what I believe, and the confrontation.

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No.  That is not what I am saying at all.  I am saying that someone's philosophy, who has control over the masses, will work within their philosophy.  They don't have to believe anything at all.  I am not saying atheism is the root cause of the 170 million dead due to communism. I am saying it is a factor.  Just as a leader's philosophy on religion is a factor on other fronts.  To argue that the concept of atheism has not influenced the actions of its proponenets lacks integrity, or any serious thought on the matter.  One of the two. smile  You can't blame religion for all that troubles this world.

          1. callumevans profile image60
            callumevansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That's not an argument against atheism or an argument that shows atheism in a bad light.

            All you're doing is saying that a dictator has interpreted his non-belief in  god as some sort of reason to kill people (you'e incorrect that communism is responsible for any deaths at all, by the way), but atheism doesn't have any creed at all -- let alone one that condones this or has any way of leading to this.

            "I am saying that someone's philosophy, who has control over the masses, will work within their philosophy"

            If a person that doesn't believe in fairies decides to murder a group of people that do believe in fairies, can we say that his believing in fairies factored? Possibly, and I think that might be what you're saying (?), but it's completely absurd to do so, is it not? There is no connection between the two, and that would not be an argument against disbelieving in fairies.

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I actually get that ! well written.

            2. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You know, if you then concede that the same holds true for all beliefs, or lack thereof, I will concede the point. smile

              1. callumevans profile image60
                callumevansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I'll concede that merely believing in a god does nothing, just as not believing in a god does nothing. You can't blame either of those for anything.

                However, I won't concede the same for religions, as they DO have a creed; that's why atheism and religion cannot be compared -- they're not even contrasting beliefs. The issue is that having a religion necessarily requires belief in a deity, and people are quite willing to do things in the name of that deity because their religion tells them to. I think we can agree on that? smile

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes. smile

  5. DoubleScorpion profile image87
    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago

    Overall I guess it can be said that there are more fighting over religion than that caused by atheist. The key point is that disagreements between people is what causes most fighting. We cannot hope to begin to understand anyone else until we understand ourselves first. Very few people actually understand themselves, most don't even know how to be honest with themselves. And until they start being honest with themselves, they will never understand themselves. Not knowing(or refusing to see) who we are as a people will always lead to disagreements.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And factor into that ,most Christians are not Religionists and the plot thickens lol

    2. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Very valid point.

  6. melpor profile image88
    melporposted 5 years ago

    There are plenty of statistical information that indicates the rate of crime is often higher in places where a higher percentage of the population in the area consider themselves to be religious. Just look at the inner  cities in the United States and see where the high number of churches are located.  Also there are a lot inmates who often associate themselves to some form of religion and then later committed these crimes to end up where they are now. The people in United States often consider themselves to be religious but the U.S. is the most developed countries with very high crime rates. The list goes on and on with examples of this correlation between religious populations and crime related activities around te world. A good example of this correlation is the incident that took place many years in Guyana with the "People's Temple" led by Jim Jones. What was the first they his people did to each other when people started changing their minds about their belief. He murdered more than 1000 innocent people because of his religious belief.

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't dispute the high crime rate in the inner cities.  Is Christianity to blame?  I don't know.  Maybe it has more to do with gang violence and drugs.  I could be wrong.  I didn't post this thing to imply that I don't think religion has been the root cause of some violence.  I am simply wondering if the aggresive stand that all religion needs to be sent the way of the dodo because it promotes violence is a viable option in the advocacy of world peace.  I don't see that it is, due to the fact that all other philosophies I have reviewed, that have gained power within a nation, have shown no more of a propensity toward non violence than any other.

      1. Valerie F profile image60
        Valerie Fposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Also take into consideration that a lot of religions deliberately reach out to the poor and imprisoned.

        Regardless, people who follow a religion that says "love God, love your neighbor, do not murder, steal, rape, mess around on your spouses, slander, defraud, etc.," won't commit crimes. Crime exists for the most part in spite of religious groups' attempts to steer people in better directions, not because of them.

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          In a  free and democratic society;  I would, for the most part, agree with you.

  7. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    One does not need a title such as atheist to ignore bronze aged hate fests.
    Common sense is all that is required. smile

  8. pisean282311 profile image58
    pisean282311posted 5 years ago

    as of now NO...yes it is more peaceful that four largest religions in the world, though...but atheism is natural future of human beings...but as of now , we require religion..Buddhism would fit the bill of inquiring minds of future but in end it would be atheism...

  9. Mikeydoes profile image79
    Mikeydoesposted 5 years ago

    I don't get this question at all..

    It depends on the person, not the religion.

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly.

      1. pisean282311 profile image58
        pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        nope..it depends on person in society where education and personal freedom  ,free flow of thought does exist...in countries where religion is very dominant and access to eduction is limited , religion has proved that it can control lives and direct them to destruction...nothing is more lethal than combination of religion (or lack of it) + politics...

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Religion plays a role. Sometimes a powerful one in an individual's decision making process. But, with the exception of Islam, I see no valid argument that religion has caused war in the last several hundred years. Nor is there a valid argument that atheism, in and of it self, is deadly.

          1. pisean282311 profile image58
            pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            crusader...first religion sponsored major war...on larger perceptive abhramic religions are more condusive for encouraging wars sine their concept is my god only god...other religions are more inclusive ones...but the war which was started by crusader promoters is being manifested even today in different form...

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Ok,  the crusades don't fall into the category of the last few hundred years, but yes those were religious wars. I know of no Chtistian church that has a stranglehold on the state now, nor one whose believers could  think conquest of other nations was seen as a divine imperative. I could be wrong.

              1. pisean282311 profile image58
                pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                i agree with you on this...i give credit for this to industrialization and affluence and it is really great that churches no more control governments...that is why west has progressed more since last 100 odd years...

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Agreed.

              2. superwags profile image80
                superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Only the Vatican that I can think of. That's why - quelle surprise - they're about the only nation that doesn't adhere to the Geneva Convetion etc.

                Having said that, you're right, the Vatican is only really a sovereign state because of a hstorical fluke.

                That said, this doesn't mean that politics in many governments aren't vastly influenced by religion. Even George Bush and Tony Blair believed that "they had god on their side" when they invaded Iraq. This is very troubling.

                1. pisean282311 profile image58
                  pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  ya quite right..god on their side literally took usa down...shhh...

                2. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You are exactly right about Bush and Blair. I gagged when I heard that one, but it is scary to think any leader in the free world would say that and then not apologize for making such an insane assumption. Especially considering the claims of the adversary in that conflict.

                  1. Cagsil profile image82
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Hey Just,

                    No one said Bush or Blair were intelligent people. Other people assumed that they are, which is why they were in office to begin with. Yet, both are more ignorant than their adversary. lol

          2. superwags profile image80
            superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well, full blown wars that you can put down to just religion, that may be well the case. I'd say that the indian partition responsible for horrible massacres and the largest ever mass displacement of people could be put dow almost entirely to religious reasons.

            There is ongoing violence in many places in the world which is entriely due to religion (and non-islamic too). Here's a couple of examples off the top of my head:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ma … olence-jos

            1. pisean282311 profile image58
              pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              agreed..even during early expansion of few religion , there was ample blood sheds......even pakistan taliban's attacks since last 5 years in pakistan which has killed more than 10k people and still counting....they too call it religious war against pro usa government...

    2. superwags profile image80
      superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well, yes and no. Religion exerts an influence over people to do some pretty horrible things in its name.

      I'm not saying that you couldn't do this with a non-religious ideology as well; but it's the same idea - unquestioningly following what people tell you.

      1. Mikeydoes profile image79
        Mikeydoesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So basically, like I said... It depends on the person... It is their choice if they want to get involved in flying a plane into a tower... They took all the necessary steps to do it. People have grown up with a religion and left it later, and obviously sometimes they can not tell anyone. That even happens here, if you tell your family that you are an atheist you are immediately looked down on.

        The title of this thread is Atheism a peaceful alternative to religion. And the answer is every person is different, I don't see how that is even close to wrong.

        And not all atheists are good people. SO what does that mean? It depends on the person?

        Not sure why you are telling me I'm right and wrong, because I am 100% right.

        1. superwags profile image80
          superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I'm saying that you cannot say that it completely depends on a person's viewpoint if that viewpoint is massively influenced by someone in a supposed position of power within a religion. Religion is not without blame.

          Look at those kids who shot up the Taj in Bambay a couple of years ago. They'd never previously left their village, they'd just been brainwashed since year dot by their local religious zealots.

        2. 68
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this
  10. jessicab profile image61
    jessicabposted 5 years ago

    Why do Athesim not believe in God?  If religion cause war, then what religion cause the war the United States is fighting now.  In other words what particular religion?

    1. superwags profile image80
      superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No religion causes the war that the US is currently embroiled in. But that doesn't mean that ipse dixit; therefore no wars are ever caused by religion!

      Having said that, most of the violence in Iraq is currently being undertaken by the Sunnis on Shia muslims and vice versa.

  11. Onusonus profile image87
    Onusonusposted 5 years ago

    There is a certain type of person who has emerged from the cradle of our society and continues to be a phenomena which is passed down from one generation to the next. Since the dawn of time there have been tyrants who are so motivated to exercise control over the masses that they will say or do anything to cater to the crowd in order to rise to the top.

    It doesn't matter what type of organization this personality type belongs to, because they are a presence in all forms of thought and philosophy. They can be found in both social, and political arenas, in the work place, the schools, and especially the media and government.

    They are ambitious, aggressive, business-like, controlling, highly competitive, impatient, preoccupied with his or her status, time-conscious, and tightly-wound, often high-achieving "workaholics" who multi-task, push themselves with deadlines, and hate both delays and ambivalence.
    In several instances with today's society my observation has been that this type of person is suppressed in the work place by their piers. It is usually their friends and family members who endure the brunt of their behavior. But every once in a while they elbow their way to the top aggressively and with extreme confidence but knowing little about what they are doing.
    They have historically held society back and it is possible that we could be much more advanced as a civilization if we had actually been enclined to listen to people who know what they are talking about instead of clinging to the best debater or most shocking story teller.

  12. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    Money talks bs walks  lol

    1. Cagsil profile image82
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Apparently not, Bush and Blair were pretty good at laying down the BS and managed to walk right into a war. lol lol

      The money is what got them elected to begin with. lol

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        True enough.

  13. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    I dont think Ive met any athiests here or outside of the Internet who are peaceful and happy?

    Least they dont present as being happy go lucky. smile

    1. Cagsil profile image82
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      2/3 of the population is religious in some manner. Therefore, I wouldn't think you would run into too many atheists. lol

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Cags Im not sure where you get all your stats from ,but maybe you will also find that most Christians dont align themselves with 'Religion' at all.

        Religion is man made, he makes it up as he goes along ,then creates some doctrine and before you know it you have traditional rites and stereotypes.

        Christianity follows and believe Jesus Is Lord.
        No man comes to the Father except through Christ.Period.

        And it might interest readers to know that Jesus was always in conflict with the Religious leaders of the day, in fact he called them like 'white washed sepchres' clean on the outside, dirty on the inside. He dispised theyre hypocracy and double talk.
        There is a verse that says 'Not all who call me Lord will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven' I beleive thats exactly what he was meaning



        There is a huge difference between Christianity and Religion,and of course when people fill out a census who knows what box they tick ,lol.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Dear me. sad

          Talk about "hypocracy." lol

          Little wonder your religion causes so many wars. sad

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I dont have a Religion.

            Oh dear youre beginning to sound like a needle stuck on a record.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Funny that you do not understand yourself. Oh well. This is why your religion causes so many wars. sad

              Oh well.............. Bet Jesus is right proud a ya. sad

              1. Greeneyes82 profile image60
                Greeneyes82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I am sensing sarcasm here... and does not ones own sarcasm also build a foundation for an argument which a lot of arguments have also caused wars?

              2. Greeneyes82 profile image60
                Greeneyes82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                arguing with others is also a form of war.. its a verbal war... -first up atheists waging war all over the internet trying to start arguments! kudos to them because they never start anything oh no not atheists. everyone should drop what they are doing and start following the atheist because they never commit anything of any kind.. wait was I being sarcastic? so that would mean I am trying to start a pointless argument over the internet? does anyone see how easy that is to "start" something with just a few words? guess this means war. sigh

                1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                  Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi Greeneyes, Welcome to hubpages. You can sense pretty well. smile Mark has been causing many wars by attacking christians in the forums because we believe in God and enjoy discussing our faith. Yes I can see how easy it is. You are exactly right.

                  1. Greeneyes82 profile image60
                    Greeneyes82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    yea I see that.. It looks as though in the 14 months I have been gone from this site things havent changed much....

        2. Cagsil profile image82
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Nice to see you fail to understand that the belief in a god only comes from religion, as it is defined. But, appreciate the input.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I strongly disagree.

            There are many people who have never heard about God or religion (as we have in the Western World) yet acknowledge a higher being and or presence never the less.

            Thanks for your input.

        3. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Eaglekiwi, Agreed. Christianity is having a personal relationship with the lord.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Pity you do not keep it personal - innit? sad

          2. Cagsil profile image82
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Christianity doctrine #1 teach to be selfless, yet the belief in a god is selfish. Great to know you fight against your own self and fail to see it. lol

            1. Greeneyes82 profile image60
              Greeneyes82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              that doesnt even make any sense....so your saying that because you dont believe, that you are selfish too because then you are hogging all of the freedom of not believing? does a double take...wait what?? riiiight.....

              1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                lol

        4. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That has got to be one of the funniest things I've read today. Period.

          Perhaps, we need to remove the word, "Religion" from our lexicon as it appears there is no such thing. lol

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            How on earth did you get that out of what I wrote??

            I am of the opinion that some do not know the difference between Christianity and Religion.

            1. Beelzedad profile image59
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, I can clearly see that. Thanks.

  14. Greeneyes82 profile image60
    Greeneyes82posted 5 years ago

    how about just blaming people in general.. everyone is in such an uproar about who to blame and finding answers. the only finger that should be pointing here is our own and at our own selves. acknowledging the fact that the human race is pretty much disgusting in the decisions that we make and accepting that we all make mistakes makes a whole lot more sense to me then sitting here trying to point fingers at your neighbor.. as for the high crime rate in the inner cities. well think about it. there are a LOT more people that live in these cities and the gang ratio out here is ridiculous.. There are a lot of people on drugs and into violence and not one of them goes to church so I cant really sit here and say that all these people who commit these crimes claim to be religious and blah blah... Some people are corrupt, and corrupt people who "claim to be religious" are giving a bad name to religion. But that doesnt mean that there isn't good loyal honest people out there who do go to church. I just prefer to think of it as a very small handful of good people out there, some are in church, some are not.  It says in the bible that a fool argues and a wise man knows when to hold his tongue, perhaps if we all exercised that knowledge then our world would be a better place. You cant blame everything solely on religion because its corrupt people that are in the religion that cause war just like its your corrupt neighbor who doesnt even care anything about religion who creates war in many other ways.. PEOPLE are to blame, not atheism, not religon just plain people. To blame a certain type is like saying the doctor who did malpractice gives a bad name for all the rest of our medical field, pfffff what a load.. the fact that some atheists try to act like they are holier then thou and claim they are right all the time because they never done any wrong starting from way back is about as self righteous as you can get.. self pride is also a good foundation for starting a war. atheists are human beings too.I am sure you all feel the global change thats been going on and have seen the stuff all over the news the last few months. I think of it this way. If I was God and people from way back when had been waging wars, committing crimes, raping each other, abusing others blah blah you get the idea, all the way up until these days where there is still war going on , mass pollution, violence, drug use blah blah and people are fighting and arguing over who to blame and pointing fingers. I would be pretty much sick of it myself. It doesnt matter who started what anymore or whether you think its religion or non religious folks. The damage has been done and I don't believe there is much we can do at this point to try and turn it around, even with whats going on today in our world. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it. Why is it that as human beings we always wait until the LAST minute to try and do something when it is already too friggin late? Just face it we did this to ourselves, and we will pay the price for it, whether it be global disaster or nuclear war. You cant stop the inevitable, pointing fingers and blaming something or someone else besides ourselves surely is not something that is at the top of my list these days......

    1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
      Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Very well stated!

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You make some excellant points smile

  15. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Missed it by THAT much! As Maxwell Smart would say. lol lol

    By the way I am still wondering what an Atheist is in the minds of believers? smile

    1. Greeneyes82 profile image60
      Greeneyes82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      hello again earnest wink  you are still here? LOL I really figured you guys would have moved on to mor important and fun things in life than debating on here SILL

    2. Greeneyes82 profile image60
      Greeneyes82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      are you asking me this question?

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No. smile

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hey ernest. Don't you thing an atheist is the same as a believer? Just another human with a different point of view? I'm sure this was not my question to answer, but you should know me well enough by now to know I have a big mouth. I'm definitely not mute. smile

          1. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            A believer believes, an atheist thinks.

            A believer will tell you how to live your life according to their doctrines, an atheist will not tell you how to live your life.

            A believer will threaten you with their gods wrath and eternal damnation if you don't believe, an atheist makes no threats.

            A believer invokes magic into all of their explanations, an atheist invokes scientific thought processes, hard evidence and facts.

            A believer will indoctrinate their children into their belief system, an atheist will teach his children all about the various religions and to think for themselves.

            Shall I go on? smile

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              That's not true. I believe in something more, but none of those fit me. I know you think the first one does, but the funny thing is; I printed off this whole thing from the site you suggested and, in many ways, I see my way of analyzing this problem more than yours as following this philosophy.

              Just so you know, I did not raise my child in the Christian church. His spirituality is his, and his alone. Believers are not mindless clones, no mater how often you propose otherwise. smile

              1. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Or, no matter how often the observation presents itself in full, living technicolor. smile

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Beelzedad, although I consider you to be the most level headed and possibly the most intelligent of the agressive atheists, it is not entirely outside the bounds of possibility for you to be wrong on this point. Such an intractable stand is, apparently, outside of the bounds of a proponent of the method of thinking you have suggested I read up on. 

                  Why would you undermine your argument by suggesting I review this site? smile

              2. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I reckon that covers most of it. Hard to disagree with the truth, but someone will. smile

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  An Athiest thinks and a Believer does not?

                  I have to have thought, before I believed.

                  Sheesh what an insult!

                  1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                    Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Eaglekiwi, Exactly.

                  2. Beelzedad profile image59
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, believers once had thoughts until their religious indoctrination crushed their abilities to think critically out of existence. That is how indoctrination works. smile

                    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      And how say do you come to your current so called 'truths'

                      Influenced by what ? you certainly did not wake up one day and a little lightbulb flicked on lol

                2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Untruth.

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I would have thought it was a fair generalization based on what I see here and in the real world.

                    I do however agree that not all believers fit the whole bill, and would also say you are not radical in your beliefs. smile

                    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      You are really quite a sweet guy Earnest and I appreciate the measure of respect you show me. Thanks smile

                      I agree its a generalisation,but depending on who wrote it ,one could quite clearly adapt it to suit either side.

                      Honestly there are nutty people all over da place.
                      That is my perception wink

                  2. Beelzedad profile image59
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Please feel free to refute my points rather than just tossing out an empty word. smile

                    1. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Hey, just because she can succinctly make an empty statement doesn't make it any more empty than your statement. She's just better at putting an untruth in a nutshell. smile

                    2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      They have already been refuted ,no sense in filling a box with words for the hell of it lol

              3. spiritualspark3 profile image59
                spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                @Beelzedad

                Nice work for discriminating b/w believer of god and athiest of science or his own perfect mind...

                Lets talk a bit about science,
                Science: been  to moon and back, used so much amount of wealth, so many years and in return, what do they have for all, who were excited and  counting on them?

                A packet of mud.

                That is okayyyyyyyyy!!!! Science again claims, our bad, but  this time we are  going to Mars ok?
                Having said that, there is water on Mars from science discoveries but not on moon.

                Science  or scientist  should have checked water on moon before planning to even go there if they are so perfect with experiments and conclusions. Anyways its okay go to Mars now and please bring a "Huge Truck of mud back" so that at least one small room named "Tiny Mars", can be in any of the Museums ".

                Having said that, how about going in to ocean , looking for more planets, at least we sure about water, so its easy.


                1.A believer believes artist thinks:

                A:  Off course you have all the time in the world, to first think, then experiment, then conclude with ur imperfect senses e.g brain, let me ask u what color shirt or t-shirt were u wearing on 24rth sep, 2001? perfect thinking arises from perfect brain and perfect power to remember or forget.

                2. A believer will tell you how to live your life according to their doctrines, an atheist will not tell you how to live your life.

                A:off course LOL, they dont even know how to live there, where the question comes of advicing someone else wisely?

                3.A believer will threaten you with their gods wrath and eternal damnation if you don't believe, an atheist makes no threats.

                A. Absolutely you know something that is not good for you, u will want ur loved one's  not to try wrong things, may be they even need to be threatened just like a stubborn kid is threatened about gum demons when kid demands for many chocolates, its all out of compassion. Athiest do not know when will they die, where will they go after death, and they fearing death what will they fear others about?

                4.A believer invokes magic into all of their explanations, an atheist invokes scientific thought processes, hard evidence and facts.

                A. Oh  waow, i am waiting for some evidence of life created in labortories.
                   Unstable bacteria? Test tubes babies using hormones from humans,
                    hah... Give me a break, not even a single blade of grass green in color is been produced till date, Beelzedad. what facts hard evidence or facts do u have more, let me see please...

                5.A believer will indoctrinate their children into their belief system, an atheist will teach his children all about the various religions and to think for themselves.

                A. Finally atleast some thing good atheist do, to let their kids study about all or any religion of there choice... However, believer who believes in knowledge, knows that all religion says God is one, not mine one and your one he is just one.

                6.Shall I go on?

                A.Bring it on!!!!

                1. Cagsil profile image82
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  lol lol

                2. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually, on some levels, this is pretty insightful. It shows the flip side of the coin of the ignorance of prejudice Beelzedad so clearly displayed.

                3. Beelzedad profile image59
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  A tremendous amount of knowledge and understanding, that was the entire point.

                  If you wish to talk about wasted resources, just look at the amount of churches and other places of worship that litter the landscape.



                  Sorry, but do you have a point there? I see no connection whatsoever between an experiment and a t-shirt.



                  If you're unable to complete a coherent sentence or make a valid point about reality, what makes you think I would listen to your advice on life?



                  It is 'compassionate' to threaten folks with eternal damnation. That's a new one. Would you threaten your kids with eternal damnation just because they ate a chocolate?

                  And of course, you fail to distinguish the fact that there is a huge difference between "trying wrong things" and not accepting the beliefs of your religion, which is really what the threats are all about.



                  It appears you know very little about atheists.



                  Strawman fallacy. That has nothing to do with my point.



                  Really? So, you worship Allah, Zeus, Thor and a host of other gods and you follow all of the related religions?

                  Yeah, sure. roll



                  You mean you have even more nonsense to offer? lol

                4. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                  Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  spiritualspark, I love your post.

            2. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No, I think atheism is a religious concept.

              I don't believe a scary fantasy written by a bunch of goat herders is "truth" that doesn't make me an atheist, it simply means I know the difference between reality and fantasy. smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                See? It's like I said. You're another human with a different opinion. smile

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I have other "opinions" that are similar. Black is not white, Santa Claus does not come down the chimney, the tooth fairy does not leave the money, religion is a pile of old washing, most electricity comes from burning brown coal, Japan just had an earthquake. Probably all wrong of course, as they are just opinions.
                  May the god of common sense greet you soon!

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, it's a miracle..we agree on all of your statements. Don't do that too often. smile People might mistake us for clones. lol

                    1. earnestshub profile image88
                      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I would have thought that highly unlikely! lol lol

    3. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago

      I have come to believe that which I know that I have experienced.

         And that includes the fact that there is a higher power that some have called GOD.

         Maybe everyone that does not have a father does not understand.


      edit ...   good night all

      1. Greeneyes82 profile image60
        Greeneyes82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        no one can truely REALLY understand unless they experience for themselves. People can try to understand but they really cant comprehend. One has to experience something first to get the full intention wink One who has been abused can understand the pain of another who has went through it where as one who has not been abused can't completely understand the full damage. They can only TRY to understand.. Experience is a must before people blab about something or someone they know nothing about

        1. Greeneyes82 profile image60
          Greeneyes82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          cagsil. what if I told you that I believed in my son and in myself. Does this make me a sefish person? Please explain why believing in God makes someone selfish.. If believing in something makes someone selfish then I guess the entire population of humanity is selfish... At least there is never a dull moment when an atheist is around. Entertainment will most certainly keep my attention

    4. spiritualspark3 profile image59
      spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago

      @ Beelzedad

      1.If you wish to talk about wasted resources, just look at the amount of churches and other places of worship that litter the landscape.
      A. well about new and silly  experiments & discoveries for trying different things, lets solve the problems on earth & and its inhabitants first rather then  going to different planets.

      Yeah there churches littering, but it is not bigger than 7/11 in anyway.

      2.Sorry, but do you have a point there? I see no connection whatsoever between an experiment and a t-shirt.

      To every action there is equal and opposite reaction, one who is born will surely die, one that is constructed, surely will even fall one day.
      &
      What was the best experiment as per you or as far as rewarding science is concerned? Cars, trains, microwaves all adding up to global warming, careless about conclusions. God does not even experiments, he just created perfect things in the first place.


      3.If you're unable to complete a coherent sentence or make a valid point about reality, what makes you think I would listen to your advice on life?


      It is 'compassionate' to threaten folks with eternal damnation. That's a new one. Would you threaten your kids with eternal damnation just because they ate a chocolate?

      A. Compassion arises out of love for other beings, not out of fear of own's death or damnation of the world. Death is just another start of life, somewhere else.


      4.And of course, you fail to distinguish the fact that there is a huge difference between "trying wrong things" and not accepting the beliefs of your religion, which is really what the threats are all about.


      A. Trying wrong things?  wrong can be just following one's religion and discriminating others. I am not a blind follower picking up religious believes as per the family i was thrown into. I  strongly and firmly believe God is one and that is what every religion says, i have studied all major religions in the world and have sorted this one out for me and for the world. My knowledge is  from  different scriptures available, since creation.

      5.It appears you know very little about atheists.

      A. When one has perfect knowledge of this world which god imparts through scriptures, even a ph.d in any field does not stands anywhere in front of it because one class of men are using there best capabilities to understand things from the creation, Lord created it, why do i even need to experiment? the creation, the flowers, beautiful human beings, lovely wildlife, every sand particle is sufficient for me to be grateful and joyful about his demonstrations not experiments.



      6.Really? So, you worship Allah, Zeus, Thor and a host of other gods and you follow all of the related religions?

      A. well off course as i said earlier Allah , Jesus or whatever different name is been given, there is no difference b/w blood of Muslims compared to Christians, we simply cannot discriminate God as per the country we are born in and whom so ever is doing that is not a follower, rather a mere pretender.


      7.Yeah, sure. roll
      A. LOL people living in glass houses should not throw stones on others.



      8.You mean you have even more nonsense to offer? lol

      A. Well even if its nonsense i still have loads more of it.



      My point is not to win or defeat in a argue ment or debate(whatever u want to think), my concern is Either u come my way or be brave enough to take me your way @Beelzedad

      Thanks for reading my Nonsense though & also for sharing ur beliefs or knowledge.

      1. Beelzedad profile image59
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No offense, but reading your posts is somewhat painful. If you decide to write them in English rather than leetspeek, I'll be happy to address them. smile

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          He makes relevant points.

          We are not here to be graded on our English skills.

          Your attitude Sounds rather snobbish to me.

          1. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            He provides little more than contradictions.



            No one is grading anyone or is snobbish. If he's too lazy to use words rather than leetspeek, why should I bother to address his posts? smile

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Rather convenient,but yes your choice.

              1. spiritualspark3 profile image59
                spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Hi there,

                May i know if there is any other page i can jump, where in there is some conversation going on.

                I am new to hub pages and  don't know much about it...

                Cheers!!!

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  spirituals3

                  Somewhere on your entry page (not sure how you are using Hubpages) which format etc) but if you click on 'Forums' it should open all discussions...then at the top it will show 'all ,your and unanswered post..which is helpful to check on on going
                  discussions. http://hubpages.com/forum/

                  1. spiritualspark3 profile image59
                    spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks 4 sharing,

                    I got it.

                    Cheers!!!

                    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Youre welcome smile

                      Hey ,if youre into Spiritual Warfare ,dont forget to put on the full amour.

                      Cheers.

            2. spiritualspark3 profile image59
              spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Offcourse u cannot be more funny Beelzaded...

              i know 4 different languages and my aim is not to master languages, its just to master knowledge...  which message you did not understand because of my poor english Beelzedad?

              No one apart from you complained that and how many languages do u know. i am sure u need to hear my voice over the internet or phone so that my english skills are clear to you.

              By the way how many  languages do u know, just one good english, Phewwww!!!

              Speaking about my English is what u concluded from my talks, please concentrate on message and bring me some challange rather then acting like a kid and talking stuff he/ she self does not knows.
              you are the first person telling me that.

              Pretty lame Beelazded,
              Get ur theories please, they atleast sound intersting to me...
              last but not the least i am not planning to get married to anyone in your family, which might bring you a bad name for my English.

              Bring something better please, the next time u talk...

            3. spiritualspark3 profile image59
              spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              That is at least better, that i provide you contradictions.

              Offcourse i write to contradict your thoughts and belief about god, so that u bring some good evidences to support your theories.

              let me tell you one more thing which may be you do not know, Einstein was a firm believer of god.  Your profile picture, is a disgrace to him when u talk about non beliefs about god.

              You want me to prove  "Einstein was a firm believer of god"? or u have something better to debate on?

              1. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Feel free to prove it. smile

                1. spiritualspark3 profile image59
                  spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I definitely know i will prove it.

                  Don't u have any points to support that " Einstein: an atheist or believer"

                  i just need ur points to support it so that u do not keep on adding more and more after wards...

                  i do not believe in writing short messages meant for haha hehe, i try working  a bit logically so that i don't have to work over and over again...

                  1. Beelzedad profile image59
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Like this for example:

                    “It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”

                    Albert Einstein, March 24, 1954.




                    Will you be doing that soon or sometime in the future? smile

                    1. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Einstein was, apparently, all over the place ont he subject of religion Beelzedad.  Don't cherry pick his quotes.

                      From a letter to Eduard Büsching, Oct. 25, 1929, Einstein Archive, reel 33-275, quoted in Jammer, p. 51:


                      We followers of Spinoza see out God in the wonderful order and lawfulness of all that exists and in its soul as it reveals itself in man and animal.It is a different question whether belief in a personal God should be contested. Freud endorsed this view in his latest publication. I myself would never engage in such a task. For such a belief seems to me to the lack of any transcendental outlook of life, and I wonder whether on can ever successfully render to the majority of mankind a more sublime means in order to satisfy its metaphysical needs.

                      I see a pattern, but my imagination cannot picture the maker of that pattern. I see a clock, but I cannot envision the clockmaker. The human mind is unable to conceive of the four dimensions, so how can it conceive of a God, before whom a thousand years and a thousand dimensions are as one? (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p. 208)

                      What separates me from most so-called atheists is a feeling of utter humility toward the unattainable secrets of the harmony of the cosmos. (Albert Einstein to Joseph Lewis, Apr. 18, 1953)

                    2. spiritualspark3 profile image59
                      spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I like your knowledge of English Beelezedad... may i know if u really understand english???

                      Anyways please concentrate...


                      1.“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God

                      Personal god means god coming in a form of human or lets say any of his incarnations where did he say he does not believe in god, God and Personal god is something english can explain us better may be?

                      and

                      2.I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”

                      Unbounded admiration of the structure simply means he was stunned to see how these different  different  planets including earth are there in the planetory  system resting on nothing.


                      For your information Beelzedad,
                      In one of his letters  Einstein stated:

                      Dear Phyllis,

                      I have tried to respond to your question as simply as I could. Here is my answer

                      Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the actions of people.

                      For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e., by a wish addressed to a supernatural being.

                      Hats off to your best picked atheist example for Einstein.

                      3. Will you be doing that soon or sometime in the future?
                      A. My knowldege is sufficient to prove it, dont have to come in form of any god as just been a child of god, i have all powers that need to prove anything against him.

                2. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I'd like to see that! lol

            4. spiritualspark3 profile image59
              spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Lol,

              Lazy and me?

              Dear Beelzaded,

              I have taken a huge responsibility to educate people, i am soon coming up with new book and also building a website. 

              Last but not the least i just sleep for 3-4 hours a day as i got more work to do than what u might have.

              Cheers..
              Hope u do not need facts and hard evidences in this, though it okay for me to provide some.

    5. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

      @SpiritualSpark3

      Cool nic and I  am inspiredl by your passion for Christ!!

      You rock -keep it up!

    6. 60
      smartme99posted 5 years ago

      i  feel great

    7. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

      Beezledad this is what I meant. smile



      The Armour Of God

      Introduction
      1) The Belt Of Truth
      2) The Breastplate Of Righteousness
      3) Shod Feet
      4) The Shield Of Faith
      5) The Helmet Of Salvation
      6) The Sword Of The Spirit
      7) Prayer

      1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Amen. smile

      2. Beelzedad profile image59
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Shouldn't you have added in reality as well as fantasy? You know, the Crusades, the Inquisition, witch burnings, etc.? smile

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Maybe you should take it up with God ,or Governments even who make decisions to go to war ,and of course theres you and me who vote them in the first place!

          Now who do you think is responsible for war? seriously.

          1. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Okay, you tell your god to come visit me and I'll take it up with him. Can you do that? Will he listen?  smile

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You wanna talk to Him ,you ask Him smile

              He will come (if youre sincere)

              1. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Ah yes, the same old tired excuses.

                *yawn*

        2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The Armour of God defines His Word ,Faith and Love.

          At least thats how I have always interepted it to mean.

          I am for Peace,not War.

          War never determines who is right ,only who is left.

          1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
            DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You are correct...War doesn't determine who is right or wrong...But the winners get to continue teaching their philosophies...Right or wrong...

            And not that I am defending or supporting...But historically Governments were controlled by the religious leaders. That is still done today is some countries still. The religious leaders were the counsel. Even in the biblical days the religious leaders controlled the law. So in a sense, the religious types (all religions, not just christian) are kinda responsible for alot of the wars we have seen over the years...

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I agree for the main part.

              However how long will man(and woman) blame someone else for the evil they commit?

              Because God said to do it?- I dont buy it.

              1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                you are correct. we need to stop blaming others(god or anyone else) for our shortcomings and then start living correctly

          2. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Funny how you say you're for peace, but everything you describe about your god is in terms of war. Quite the contradiction. smile

            1. aka-dj profile image80
              aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Very observant of you.
              EXCEPT...the armor is a "spiritual armor".
              The same scripture where the armor is mentioned talks of "fiery darts from the enemy", meaning it is primarily for "defense" not attack.

              It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God. (in other words, don't be on the enemies side when you face God.) Not a good place to be. But this is all a whole other topic.

              1. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, everything in terms of warfare, nothing in terms of peace.



                And, a whole other fairy tale. smile

            2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No, but please show me where you think I have done?

              1. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You're joking, right? roll

                "The Armour Of God

                The Breastplate Of Righteousness

                The Shield Of Faith

                The Helmet Of Salvation

                The Sword Of The Spirit

                Warfare"

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh Dear..

                  Is it because you dont want to get it ,or could you be splittng hairs Beelzedad?

                  Spiritual warfare is NOT...I repeat NOT taking or advocating the taking up a weapon.


                  Maybe these words will help clarify it for you.

                  Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. Ephesians 6: 10-18

                  The written word is like an arrow etc. The word smile

                  1. Beelzedad profile image59
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, I know, everything in terms of warfare. Got it. Thanks.smile

                    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Spiritual Warfare -fought in the Spirit.

                      You are welcome. smile

    8. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

      Some religions and their creeds and doctrines make me sick!
      I have even visited and spoken with a few members ,who equally need a reality check.

      Jesus didnt come for people to be bound up in traditions and rituals ,rather he came to break them.

      In his day he was dispised by Pharisees, who didnt want to give up their power over the people to a man who wore sandals and offered love ,joy and peace ( and that wasnt from a bong) lol

      In so much as some churches disgust me ,with their holier than thou attitudes and lofty ranks of honour- some with connections in other places I dont hate them.



      Thats not to say he doesnt have standards,he does, yet the Holy Spirit is a gentleman ,he never confuses and he never oppresses.

      1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Eaglekiwi, I am enjoying your sense of humor. big_smile Jesus came to set people free from bondages.

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh thankyou WOC ( I dont mean to be) funny, but sometimes I just cant help it lol

          1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
            Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            LOL smile

    9. spiritualspark3 profile image59
      spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago

      @earnesthub
      1.Sorry, I cannot fathom what you are saying. I think you may need to read again.

      A. Who asked you to have faith in what i say, i proved your own statement wrong to u in my way, providing you relevant examples.

      Just bring what u have faith in, i never asked you to have fathom on what i am saying.

      Get me the reply rather than saying u donot believe.

      i know very well FAITH means, full acceptance in the heart, u donot believe in god where the question comes to believe in his child comes from.

      Just bring the second best point that u have for Einstein, i am done with ur first best point, i think.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."

            * p. 39 - 17 July 1953 - unsent letter

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Now I understand. You do not know the meaning of "fathom"
          Or "proof" smile

        2. spiritualspark3 profile image59
          spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Einstein didn't believe in the Judeo-Christian God to dismiss the fact that Einstein did believe in something transcendent, something ineffable, something beyond the mundane prism of our sensory reality.


          Dawkins uses this quote by Einstein to summarize his religious beliefs, "To sense that behind anything that can be experience there is something that our mind cannot grasp whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly and as a feeble reflection, this is religiousness. In this sense I am religious."

          However Einstein said:




          I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.

          It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being
          systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

          I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science. My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest
          importance -- but for us, not for God.

          From Einstein works...

          1. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No, he did not.



            Thanks for agreeing with us. Notice that nowhere in there does he say he believes in a god? smile

            1. spiritualspark3 profile image59
              spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              @ Beelzadad

              Pleasure is all mine for agreeing with you.

              I need not say that i believe in god for those over intelligent people who do  not believe in god. Still if it is just to say about my belief in God, let me tell you i strongly believe in your god even knowing this as a matter of fact by now, you do not have any god. Don't  think that i give up and u win, i am waiting to break your confidence in next forums now i am pretty sure i am done with  this one.

              What a intelligence..... Impressed with yours and few more like you.

              Haha.
              Atleast I am making you defeat in whatever you say, point by point and yeah your over intelligence does not allows you to think that much firstly and so you just pick up what best suits you, to raise a argument. I pity on people like you whom i consider nothing more than thiefs taking everything from creation and having no gratitude of return.

              What will i win even if i keep on defeating you again and again?
              I consider challenge when its really from a lion roaring at least because of power. Your intelligence shows what all powers u have.

              Bring up something worth debating rather than cherry picking if u have brains to understand  only this last line.

              Bring something best that you have, something above average, i have no doubts though if u can come up with anything new apart from picking some lines from this explanation, that is all you have Mr. Brainy...

              1. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You were done even before you started.



                lol



                Yes, I do understand you pity people who have brought you out caves and provided every modern convenience you now use every day of your life. Yeah, we're just thieves. lol



                Defeating with hypocrisy, contradictions and logical fallacies? That's something new.



                Yes, I do understand that your religious indoctrination has taught you to believe you hold the absolute truths in han and are vastly superior to the rest of us, despite reality and facts to the contrary. Yeah, I get that. smile

                1. spiritualspark3 profile image59
                  spiritualspark3posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Goodness cannot believe you so dumb so dumb and so dumb.

                  Instead of me telling you not to pick, anything from previous replies you the intelligent one still did it. Anyways hats off to modern civilization for creating bombs, weapons, nuclear plants cars, microwaves all adding up to global warming and then arguing with others that religion starts fighting.   Who provides means to fight? Well if u go by religion its just books and knowledge which i know you do not agree, but  its your advanced technology who arms weapons, did you not see that? I am sure it is a way far your intelligence can even think of.

                  If it was religion causing wars, all they had was mouth and books, not weapons supplied by your so called science god.

                  An humble advice, now that u created modern advance technology also work on creating  some  measures to stop nuclear fission and fussion now. As i can see your ass will be set on fire because of the leak in nuclear plants affected by Tsunami in Japan. Not to worry about my ass, i know how to save myself.

                  Do not come up with something stupid and more stupid now telling me again it is my god who brought tsunami, to which i will agree but then God said very clearly there can be three miseries. 1. Caused by our own body and mind. 2. Caused by someone else to you. 3. Caused by natural calamities.

                  What does your advanced modern technology has to say about this? Any control for nuclear bombs?

                  Yeah i had enough intelligence behind creating one and even reasons for it.

                  Obviously i was done with my talk in the very start as i knew its of no use to explain moron's on earth, still i gave it a trial as may be at least one would understand. Moron's proved that wrong which i knew in the beginning. I never mind for my effort as at least you read that and i was looking only for that.

                  You all can laugh at me as i am different what you say, I laugh back at you because you all the same.

                  Mr Einstein. you should be a follower of physics to follow Einstein or at least to understand what he meant. I am sure you know the best law of physics which  is " I am the Creator and I am the destroyer"

                  1. Beelzedad profile image59
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    So, are you insulting me personally because it's the Christian thing to do?



                    And of course, you never use cars, microwaves, computers internet connection... oh wait, yes you do. More contradictions?

                     

                    So, believers hire scientists to build them weapons of war which they use to kill others. Or is it the other way round?



                    I really can't believe you actually said that.



                    I suspect it would be the believers in your cult who would make the claims that it was your god who caused that destruction. Why would any sane person think a god would do such a thing?



                    Ah yes, the Christian thing to do.



                    Funny you should say that...



                    And, what law is that? None that I've ever heard...

                    Did you make that up? smile

                    1. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I know you're probably mad, but this guy's hub says he's no religion. Said he studied all three. I know you think christians are horrible, and I'm not arguing that, but he's not even espousing anything other than his own insanity. There's plenty to blame me and others for, please don't keep calling him christian.

    10. www.lookseenow profile image61
      www.lookseenowposted 5 years ago

      (Job 9:7-12)  Some who claim to be atheist, or doubt the existence of God need to consider Job’s words, and not use it to support their views that what they can’t see is not there. Why believe something exists that you cannot see, they reason. In spite of their reasoning’s, God’s invisible qualities are clearly seen, because God is making it manifest to them when every day they are perceived by the things made.  I see things of intricate design when He passes by me and I do not see him?  He moves on and I do not discern him, but I do discern what he says to the sun that it should not shine forth on a cloudy day?  Come on!  It’s still there as I see the light of it I don’t doubt its existence. 

      He is saying to stars where he puts a seal on what we see above us in the heavens.  True, we can’t see God as he treads upon the high places, and no one can see without telescopic aid the constellations, but only a fool would doubt they are there. 

      Who named them?  God did—he named the Ash, the Kesil, and the Kimah constellations, plus what’s around them he likens to interior rooms of the South where he does great things unsearcheable, and wonderful.   

      Job’s remark is:  “Look! He snatches away. Who can resist him? Who will say to him  ‘“What are you doing?’”   (Job 9:12) 

      Is there anyone of earth’s inhabitants who can check his hand and say:  what have you been doing?  All of mankind is not even considered; they are as mere nothing. Jehovah doesn’t need any of their support; he is doing according to his own will.

    11. 68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      Is Atheism a Peaceful Alternative to Religion?

      Atheism is no alternative of the truthful religion; religion created peace within and peacef without; atheism is simple frustration and doubt and is not rational.

      1. pisean282311 profile image58
        pisean282311posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        lollollollol religion created peace within and peace without lollollollollol the number one killer brought peace...the basic premise of thing which divides human created peace???..lollol

      2. 68
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this
    12. topgunjager profile image59
      topgunjagerposted 5 years ago

      Is it just me or has no one else heard anyone or read about anyone say" I don't believe in god, so let's start a war"?

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Not that I know of!
        Beats me how anyone who doesn't believe in the tooth fairy or any other myth is said to be an atheist.
        I don't believe myths are reality and not being indoctrinated I can see the difference, that doesn't make me an atheist!

      2. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        lol when you put it that way it solves the problem of the argument. Unless someone knows of someone  simply stating 'i believe in a god, so let's go to war.'

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I believe in God; so let us remain always peaceful not judging others; leaving the judgment to the Creator-God.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Which creator god would that be? Zeus?

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hey, if Zeus makes him peaceful, it would work ok for me.

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I doubt Zeus would make anyone peaceful, he was the archetypal god, bad assed to the end.

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  he couldn't have been but so bad. The ladies seemed to like him.

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Like they liked the Gettys? Or that well known billionaire who swears he has his own hair yet it looks like a red vegetable dyed dead rodent strapped to his skull? lol

                    Some women just fall in love with power by proxy, and Zeus was loaded with all sorts of mythical power. smile

                    1. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Yeh, I guess when you put it that way. I always figured he was probably loaded with pheromones, but it probably was the power thing. Well, thanks a lot Ernest. Looks like another one of my assumptions bites the dust in the light of the cold cruel world. smile Remind me never to discuss fairies with you.

          2. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            A utopian dream it seems.

            1. 68
              paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              What is utopian about it? Please

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It is utopian because people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. We have a host of problems piling on top of each other. All anyone wants to do is blame history on everyone else. The fact that anyone living in the developed world is benefiting from that history is lost on them.

                We can start finding ways to fix our problems, or play this finger pointing game.

                Business as usual will end one day, but if we keep on the way we're going we won't like the final chapter.

    13. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago

      Geez Slarty! You slowed them down with that one! lol lol lol

    14. 68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      Is Atheism a Peaceful Alternative to Religion?

      Where in the world history did atheism play any peaceful role for the human beings.

      Please quote such atheists personalities of the calibre of Buddha,Krishna,Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

      Atheism is no alternative of religion; and it has never claimed it; and it does not have the capacity to such a claim.

      They are people in doubt and frustration.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Don't you have access to wiki? smile

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I agree Para, they sure do exhibit alot of frustration frequently.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Wikipedia has a stack of well known atheists that neither of you apparently want to see or admit to, as it shows the lie clearly. smile

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Wikipedia is information derived from where and who?

              Everyone and Anyone.

              Sure I use Wiki sometimes ,but just sayin..

            2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Earnest ,the Atheists view is not a new one,and I certainly have heard well known people with views similar to yours speak before.

    15. Greeneyes82 profile image60
      Greeneyes82posted 5 years ago

      sigh. You guys are still at this? heres a question for you all. When will all this debating end? Honestly all of you speak of peace and here you are still stoning each other with words

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        He's ok

        Im ok

        Who are you exactly ? smile

        Welcome to Hubpages.

    16. 0
      jomineposted 5 years ago

      Atheism is not an alternative to religion.
      Religion is what emotional human animals carry to propel themselves forward in this wild world. Atheism is reason. Only an emotionally stable one can live with reason. Most humans are emotionally children. That is why they always look up to the myths(and gods!) to support themselves. And that also make them jealous of the people who are not afraid, so the constant evangelism!!

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Um, it's been my observation that atheists are pretty emotional too. It's part of being human. I don't find them more reasonable than the next person. Moderation in belief, or lack thereof, is desirable. Any extreme is bad. It leads to intolerance.

        1. 0
          jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I agree, just being atheistic is not enough. One need to be rational too!!
          Even then, humans are just another species of animals, and they can behave only like another animal!!

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well, I'd have to disagree with your conclusion. One doesn't have to be atheistic to rise above the status of just another animal. One simply must be reasonable, thoughtful and compassionate. No one philosophy has a monopoly on that. smile

            1. 0
              jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, that is what I said-"rational"

    17. 68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      Is Atheism a Peaceful Alternative to Religion?

      No it is not and it has never been.

      1. Beelzedad profile image59
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        lol

      2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Agree.

        Do they want to start a war ?

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Many a time, they have expressed their sentiments; they ridicule and resort to derision which is a start may lead to conflict in the end.

    18. dutchman1951 profile image61
      dutchman1951posted 5 years ago

      I think History has already proven the Statement/Question un-true. All Races, People no matter the belief-  fight, mame, kill, slaughter, hate, talk....etc....

      I think honestly it is our Human-Animal make up, nothing to do with Religion or non-beliefe. But we use it as a good excuse to hide behind.
      smile

    19. 68
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      They don't claim to be a religion; so they are not an alternative.

      Can an empty glass quench one's thirst? Sure not

     
    working