why do you think world needs savior?..are human race totally incapable species that it didnt learn from first coming and requires second coming?
I think the human race is having too much fun. Jesus needs to come down here and get us all to hate ourselves again. While he's down here he might explain why his dad invented AIDS.
Humanity clearly did not learn from His first coming.
He is coming the second time to take back what is rightfully His. Lordship, over all things!
but maybe the second would prepare for the third and we could have a kick ass baseball team
When Jesus finally returns, he will establish world peace, which man does not seem capable to do. He will end all of the pain and suffering and injustice in the world, which mankind cannot do definitely.
They'll get their world peace after the rapture. But a false world peace that ends up crumbling when one of them finally breaks their agreement.
All in the Bible dear friends. Isn't far away either.
What Jesus is bringing is Love and an Iron Rod for any back talkers this time. (to keep everyone nice)
Well believers tend to hope that if there were a second coming of christ we would find peace on earth and an end to wars. It's also hoped that if christ were to come to the earth again he would play a part in ending the suffering of famine, and be able to sort out the many problems that the human race lives with in the 21st Century.
Some people did firmly think that Christ would arrive in 2000. Some say Christ comes to earth daily and is always visable to those who can see him.
And while there are those who follow Christ who would like him to come to earth the world today still has many who oppose Christ would not want or wish for Christ to exist at all never mind come to earth.
No, but they are quite lazy and needful. Instead of engaging the work done for them, have consciously taken a humanistic approach to the combined sciences of Judaism, Christianity & Islam; thoroughly ignoring the primary fundamental of that work and relevance of "salvation".
It has nothing to do with human capability from a zero-point of the requirement of salvation. You must ask yourself, even if humans were able on their own, what would be its purpose, the foundation for this capability?
The belief of a 2nd Coming was designed to include "Jews" & "Muslims with "Christianity", where they did not alienate the others, especially since the "Jews" were/are still awaiting their Messiah (as an actual ruling King over Israel). Think of the mess Rome would have had if "Christianity" had bluntly said: "No Messiah for You!"?! It would have caused massive uprising and chaos. This is probably why Rome blamed the "Christians" for burning down the joint, and the successful replacement of Roman/Greek pagan worship with Christianity (w/ grafted in Judaism AND paganism).
The christ is Truth/knowledge of Life.
So The second coming of Christ is the coming of the thought...which brings the knowledge of Truth and Life.
He who recieves it become aware and are in the Light.
who receives it not remain in darkness
why do you think world needs 2nd coming of christ?
When Jesus escaped persecution by Jews and a cursed death on Cross and he migrated from Judea to India and neighboring countres where 10 out of 12 tribes in exile resided; in his absence fake people like Paul distorted his teachings; they made Trinity out of Oneness of the Creator-God; and made Jesus a god or son of god without Jesus having knowledge of it. Jesus was accounted for such concepts by the Creator-God; he absolved himself of such things; and his spirit wanted that he gets a chance to refute such wrong concepts invented in his name. Since one who dies never comes back again in this world, so the Creator-God accepted Jesus' wish and sent someone in his place in metaphoric shape.
So the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 has beem sent to refute the stance of Jesus.
ok...so only to you out here on hubs...why do you think humans require third coming of christ?
No such thing. Third coming is a myth. He only comes 'to earth' twice.
He's been here once 2000 years ago (please no exact year jokes)
He will raise His elect to the air and take us to Heaven for 7 years in the rapture. He will not be coming to earth for anything, we will be going to Heaven.
After the rapture and 7 years pass, Jesus and His elect (the raptured which include all the dead Christians from all of history) will come to earth with Christ leading the battle to extinguish evilness from the earth to start his kingdom of love. (dreamy huh??)
And go ahead and listen to Muhammad over there on Christianity... I'm sure it will go over great.
According to muhammad , jesus would come to earth..Islam believes in second coming...one of major difference between muslims and christian is muhammad...christian doesnot believe muhammad was final prophet while muslims believe jesus was prophet who came prior to muhammad..
Yes, and Jesus has come for the second time to correct the wrong beliefs invented by the Church in Jesus name; he has come in the smybolic form of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908. Christians and Muslims both believe in the second coming of Jesus; so ther is no real difference. Jesus prophesied of the advent of Muhammad; the truthful Christians should accept him. Jesus did come before Muhammad.
Maybe you are not reading the text or not reading it correctly.
"He will raise His elect to the air and take us to Heaven for 7 years in the rapture. "
a.) there is no such notation ANYWHERE in script. S/Paul's mention of "being caught up" has nothing to do with the event most believe. In fact, if you read the text correctly "caught up in the clouds" translates from Hebrew to mean "glorified". Same word used to describe Y`shua when he arose and was seen by many. It does not say "at this such-in-such time" but more like at anytime someone reaches the point of faith that they are glorified".
b.) And this is the biggie! There is NO mention of a Rapture anywhere in Torah or the Letters of "New Testament". Nowhere.
c.) Be sensible: why would Y`shua return? He finished his work and sat at the right hand of the Father, yes? In Hebrew to sit means to be done with, complete. If he returns, then the Spirit cannot remain --as he said, I go that the Spirit may come, because if I do not go, the Spirit cannot come to you. The Spirit now will teach you and lead you into ALL truth.
d.) Why would he take you to "heaven" for seven years (no mention of that anywhere either) then bring you back to earth after all this? To fight a war against evil you did not create? Does he need warlords? An army to defeat this "devil"?
I think not...
As you said He isn't coming himself but doing a 7-year pick up, drop off so you can fight this battle that was already won the moment he resurrected? Makes no sense.
The entire book of "Revelation" is summed up in this:
"The Testimony of Y`shua Moshiach."
"The [revealing of the work] of Y`shua Moshiach"
It is not a prophecy of the "End Times"...
Thought I mentioned I'm not doing all that typing or arguing with you?
Your way off in left field compared to my view, which is butting heads straight on... Just post it for everyone else there James..
2 Timothy 2:14
14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.
The discussion would never end friend..
I am not here to argue with you Daniel.
Like many others whom I engage in the world, my position is to firmly and correctly edify the believing, encourage the non-believing by evidence of real fruit of Life (not pretend fruit/plastic fruit) and perhaps heal the post-believing (atheist) who have been filled with lies or not told actual truth and resulted in bitterness or aloofness toward Life, especially Eternal Life...
Heal me priest, heal me!
Real fruit - not plastic - like u got.
Jesus is the High Priest ,and offers Fruit of the Spirit (real) in abundance Mark.
Try it ,go on ,just a nibble,or in abundance,your choice.
you're funny, and entertaining.
Me, a priest? As if!
But, as for fruit, I offered to show you my evidence, you declined.
Nothing else I can do, now is there?
Enjoy your wax fruit salad ( )
If you thought that - you would not be doing what all the religionists such as yourself do - claiming esoteric knowledge that you have a duty to persuade me to accept as real and then telling me that I am too hurt/ignorant/wilfull to accept your majik juju. You have shown me no evidence - the evidence exists only in your head.
This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
That's metaphor man Mark. Everything is a verb or a comparison to something intangible. That's not religion, that's poetry..
I offered to show you my evidence, you declined, Marcus. I went so far as to offer you and the misses a paid round trip flight to see my experience first hand. Sorry, cannot write that experience down and convince you --the words might entertain, but that is not the purpose of them, now is it. No, of course not.
And, I am certainly not going to force feed and then make fois gras of you for lunch. Although that might be tasty with a baguette. *snickers*.
Arigato gozaimasu & Spaciba!
OK - show me your evidence. I accept the offer.
Still missing intelligent objective of the systems created as result of random energy. Blind energy doesn't create beings with reason and thought with complex systems of interworking co-operating functions that work objectively.
I agree with how God created the galaxies as you may call Him a fairy but He usually doesn't need magic tricks. Not to mention, too many variables in perfect combination leave nearly ridiculous odds still for life without a designer. It's ridiculous to even consider that a God, or at the very least even if you deny my God, that at least some intelligent life form created mankind as nothing on earth or even in our field of vision, yes even with a hubble, pops up out of nowhere by random chance of blind energy without an inventor.
Systems... Are designed.
All atheists please hack away.. I'm very aware of your position still..
I din't mention of third coming of Jesus. Did I?
ya but since his second coming was confided to small group i thought may be he would have world primer soon...today we have so many medium which can be used...may be jesus would appear on oprah show or may be jesus would get in facebook or youtube...third coming is required since first coming , second coming divided more people than uniting them...
I was always under the impression that Jesus was allowing us to be a part of his redeeming plan for the world. Isn't that why the Spirit was sent to us? So we could be his hands and feet on this earth?
The second coming of Jesus I believe signifies the end of the world as we know it. The end of suffering, death, sickness, sin, torment etc.
It is going to be the defeat of the Enemy.
We want him to return, to put an end to all the crap in the world. But before he returns, there are some things that we have yet to achieve.
We need the Savior because we all have sinned. Jesus came to save us from eternal doom. That is why we need a Savior. The second coming of Jesus Christ is the hope of believer's that God is in control of all things, and is faithful to the promises and prophecies in his holy word. Jesus is returning to remove all believers from the earth. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil and establish his millennial kingdom. This is decribed in Revelation 19:11-16.
Personally - I can't wait for him to come and take you off. Perhaps we can get on and live peacefully then. Is he going to take the Muslimists and the other religionists as well? Even the Mormons? I may move to Utah if he does. Great place. Apart from the..............
Thank you Mark for the nice compliment Actually you will never have peace without Jesus no regardless of where you move. Jesus will take anyone who has accepted him as their Lord and Savior. Utah may be a great place, but it's nothing compared to the glorious new heaven. Revelation 21:1. This earth will be destroyed. At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth. Revelation 19:11-14. The new heaven will be on earth.
Hi vector, You are funny. I praise God for you too. I am just allowing God to have his way.
And your dead on with your scripture..
Whew! Amazing... Just Amazing...
I'll see you at the rapture.
No savior required. More people being responsible for themselves is what is actually required.
Hey cags. Strange day. I completely agree with you. We'd be a whole lot better off if people stopped anticipating something coming down and fixing this bloody mess we've made. Whether anyone is right, or not, about religion it needs to take a back seat for the good of the world.
Nice to know.
Dealing with the here and now, instead of making outrageous claims about what happens after death, which has put the world into it's position as it is now, would be really helpful.
But, it's unfortunate- the "belief" itself is selfish, as I said before. Thus, making people who do believe, selfish at their inner core. Therefore, all their actions are based on a selfish form of behavior. Those who do help others(supposedly a selfless action), isn't actually because they believe that if they do, then they will be granted the reward(afterlife).
Religion cannot be right. Why? Because the teachings imply to be selfless in action, but the belief is created before any selfless action is taken. Thus, all action is selfish, in actuality.
Leave it to you cags. It's not such a strange day after all.
Belief is not selfish. It is simply belief. Trust me. We'll all see the other side (but even though I don't believe in hell, it might feel like hell for me if you don't lighten up before we get there)
You're missing the point Just- the action is selfish.
The formation of the belief is an action. That's what you fail to see.
Hell is a metaphor for being buried in the ground. If you're not living life, then it IS hell.
Arghh. It is not selfish if I don't expect to gain more by the belief than I expect all others to gain. It is not selfish if I understand it is belief. Unprovable. The world we live in has to take priority because if I am wrong it is all we have.
Belief cannot take precedent over reality. Only when it does this, for a Christian, can it be called selfish. I don't know enough about other beliefs to know whether this holds true for them.
I think I do agree with part of your argument. I do believe that the assumption that the end is near has caused Christianity to not only turn a blind eye to the increasing environmental problems, but the problems in society as well. It is difficult to see the need for change in yourself, if you are expecting an external solution.
How is that you expect to receive an afterlife for believing and you also think that others who don't believe will get what you get? Is that was you are saying.
The ACTION of forming the belief. What part do you NOT understand.
It doesn't matter if it is provable or unprovable. The ACTION is selfish.
You're not wrong, it is all we have.
Correct. But, that doesn't make the belief any less selfish.
The formation of the belief is all that matters, regardless.
The only reason most people cannot see it, is because they are selfish at their inner core and cannot get past themselves. Damn, it is not that difficult to understand.
It is if they really, really, really need to have an easy answer.
"God," is the easy answer they want. I gives them personal authority to fight for what is right. They think that causing constant arguments about Jesus coming back to force unbelievers to their knees is "love."
Start arguments? I thought it was discussion? Why are they arguing?
Love and good news. Just love and good news...
And I love you..
Easy answers? Those little blinders are so darn cute on you Mark.
Simply because I believe that our consciousness, or soul, continues past this, our perception of existence, means it is true for all. Am I more conscious than you? (well, probably, but not in the most important sense )
Do not speak down to me, munchkin . No one is arguing the point that there is action involved. We are discussing whether the belief is selfish or not.
Ditto to the above statement.
You do not know this is all we have. You perceive this to be the truth. This, too, is unprovable. I think, you believe you have a mountain of evidence to stand on, from which vantage point you believe yourself to be looking down on me. What you fail to accept is that the believer stands on this same mountain, plus some. If I choose to let this evidence permeate the rest, I end up staring across the divide. I do not choose to keep this knowledge separate, so that I can somehow fashion it into a soapbox so I see myself as looking down on you.
Wrong, wrong, wrong to your final points. I would explain why; but repeating myself is tedious.
I don't know. Perhaps you are having hot flashes. Open a window already. Throw back the curtains. Let some air, and some light in.
The Bible states that except the days for Jesus return are shortened, no flesh will be saved. What this tells me is that the world will be destroyed by man.
There are enough nuclear bombs to destroy the world of mankind already in existence today.
nope ...nukes can't destroy life and humans are mere one species..even if humans becomes extinct life would still prevail in some or other form...actually religion sees life in too narrow prism...human beings is one of life forms but there are thousands and thousands of others too...
There are enough nuclear power plants and war heads on this planet to turn it into a virtual star...
Life would cease to exist for sure. Nothing lives on the sun...
Posting "Scripture" == Plastic Fruit.
Shiny, but inedible.
Looks great on the outside, empty or just foaming in the middle.
Comes in many varieties; but no seed..
I get curious to see if he will shave his beard this time and even opt to have a different hairdo
i guess he would...in end religion uses science for expansion...and jesus would use science for shaving , communicating in today's world...may be facebook page or twitter page or youtube video...well guess jesus mistimed his first coming and so needs second coming ...at least he would have more followers in his second coming lifetime than he had in his first coming lifetime...
my church's logo is jesus with a beard and poneytail on a chopper. so i guess its up to him! lol
The second coming: Jesus will come again with a blackberry and with a pre-created facebook and twitter page since they knew he was coming.
His albums will contain crucifixion pics but is that really suitable for children who might be on facebook?
And we all know how addictive blackberrys are so will he really have time to save humanity?
Plus I hope he learns how to drive!!!
Sorry but what was the question? Wait give me a second :
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I'd like to try something Can we "Temporarily" imagine or "pretend" if ya like that phrase better, that the second coming as it has been taught, came long ago? Just pretend and see where...
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