I've seen comments by people saying to pray when there are natural disasters. Some also doing their 'end-time' rant.
What use is prayer? How does it help any?
It doesn't. The idea that you can change what God is going to do through prayer is ludicrous.
My Opinion on prayer in the case of natural disasters and things of that sort...It is used as the lazy mans way "helping" without rendering any real assistance to those who are victims of said disasters. There is food to be given, homes to be re-built, lives to comfort and various other things that can actually render assistance to those in need during times of crisis. But, lets be "good Christians" and pray that "god" helps those in crisis and not actually got off our butts or come up off our wallets to render some real assistance for our fellow man...
Sorry...Had to vent some....
Goes to show you the level of ignorance in the world today.
It's comforting to the individual who claims to pray, so they themselves can feel better about themselves and meaningless to everyone else.
Again, only the person who prays.
The idea of prayer is logically contradicting. It requires God to be perfect and imperfect, it makes a travesty of the notion of scientific tests of causality, and it belittles the Omnipotent Infinite God, if such exists, and ignores the possibility of lesser supernatural powers or malevolent energies interfering with nature in untold ways.
I say if it helps you cope with the situation, go ahead and do it. It certainly does help in that regard.
Prayers? really? Those poor people need food shelter and medicine not prayers, i'm also very sure they would told you the same thing!
that's what I thought too - food, water, shelter, warmth, medical assistance. I don't see what use prayers are. The pets need help too.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/worl … nd-rubble/
of course they need all those things, but even the ones amongst them that have a faith will still be praying...... They know god has a long term purpose, and unfortunately they know some have to suffer............
At least the people in Japan know they have problems, we all have problems, not as severe, but we dont even know we do...... we are all under the influence of higher powers for good or bad.......
It at least puts our problems into some kind of prospective..... Being without a job, kind of fails into the background at the moment. i and i imagine lots like me and you, would love to solve the problems for all those in Japan....... But really what can we do....... If we give money it may not get to them..... If we pray to their god, it will be a comfort for the ones that do believe, whether or not we do or not.........
Earnest Hub...... I love the way your mind works.... or does it even work????
What I said makes perfect sense. If one can change the outcome for some but not others with belief, what does that say about those who died and the horror suffered by those left behind? Their own fault was it?
the sun shines on the righteous and the wicked, i know you know that Earnest , god is not partial, only humans are.
Which would leave us in the current example with god as a psychopath. It is not about man or god being partial, it is about outrageous claims made by religionists about natural disasters when they can't see their own psychological positioning.
o.k. then you be god, we will bow to your wisdom
That has never been a goal. I don't wish people to bow to my wisdom, nor will I bow to religion. No, my greatest wish is that we all grow as much as we can every day.
It shouldn't be necessary to bow to anybody - supernatural or otherwise
agreed, but i am just figuratively bowing to Earnesthub's wisdom all things religious,
I have been studying religion for a long time, so I have learned enough to know that I know very little.
I disagree completely.
God exists. (yes we know you don't think so) And creating the universe of the size of which we live says I will bow at His majesty.
We serve people EVERYDAY for what? Money. That's what everyone bows to now... A non living piece of pathetic paper...
And God doesn't deserve our service, but paper does?
If something gives you 'life'... You serve it. That it, is God. He doesn't ask for much anyhow. Mostly love.
I believe everyone is God
Here is your God
Jesus, whoever believes in him shall not perish. Kings conquer nations, and after they are conquered, people bow down to him. Whether it’s to save Satan or a King, we all can pray to Jesus for salvation. It’s all confusing, please forgive me for we do not know what we do.
I will bow at his majesty also. It's a priviledge an an honor
People who pray to God in times of disaster will be blessed by God in this life and the next.
there's an attitude amongst some that bad things happen to those that aren't 'close' to god. When I was a christian, and had bad things happen in my life, I got the blame from other christians.
When I withdrew, I got more blame & was told all the bad things in my life were because I 'turned my back on god'
Seems like you leaned alot on the opinions of others,and not on Gods.
No way do I defend people anywhere who make silly judgemental comments ,but no-one is perfect,including myself.
irony is that people who face disaster most of them have been highly religious and prayed regularly...prayer and disaster are unrelated...yes it is good way of "feeling good" ...so in that way it works...
Natural disasters are a respite for the human beings from the Creator-God to return to the path of purpose of life created by Him; which man has forgotten to pursue in the course of the man's routine material life.
So prayer helps man to ask forgiveness from the Creator-God; and man pledges again to tread on the peaceful and truthful path set for man by the Creator-God; it is a warning and a respite:
And if Allah were to punish men for their wrongdoing. He would not leave therein a living creature, but He gives them respite till an appointed term, and when their term is come, they cannot remain behind a single hour, nor can they go ahead of it. (16:62)
To undestand its philosophy one many like to access:
When you are helpless and you are the ones affected by a natural disaster, it helps to calm and soothe you - psychological, but of course don't just count on prayers you need to do something about it.
For others who are praying for the ones affected - it is their way of showing they care and they are thinking of you. You can give some donations if you like too, but prayers can help. Even just thinking of your friends when there is a natural disaster, means a lot to some.
I think natural disaster destroys peace of mind.
Prayers restore it.
Basically Prayer is the mind as well as soul dedication towards God.But there are some situations in which we are unable to do something while we have all resources,at that time only prayer.So in natural disasters like Earthquake in Japan ,they had all resources and every kind of technology,but at that time they were nothing.So at my end I only can pray for them nothing more.My help and donation is only prayers for them.
I do not know how your type of gods prayer would be received by the (more so) non religious Japanese, to them it could be considerd very cheap donation rather than real money
but prayers without food, water etc amount to nothing, do they not?
I think it just gives people with nothing better to say an opportunity to comment on their own great generosity. Some people actually lap that shit up.
Yeah and some people find prayer comforting. Praying is a simple way of showing that you have someone in your thoughts and that you're not a completely selfish bastard.
Yeah, I suppose telling other people that you're praying may be a bit solicitous but what are you going to do?
Prayer is communication between the person and God.
I dont know about anyone else ,but I dont really like other people telling me who and why I shouldnt talk(pray) to whoever I want.
Is kinda like me coming into a forum and saying ,what good is it for that person to be speaking this n that..hmmm
I would not tell anyone not to pray or do whoever they think or want to help, it's just not as strong as action,.
sound defensive..touched a nerve by asking this question?
I'm not telling people not to pray. I'm just wondering how they think it helps
Believing in God is believing in a Father who loves us. Our Bible says He made us in His image, and that we are the children of God. (if we follow Him)
Those who believe God is a powerful loving Father know that He will help in a situation and that He can affect the future's outcomes.
Those who don't believe in God, I agree. I wonder how they think it will help.
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. Exodus 21:15 NAB
I punch my father once when I was age 16 because he was an alcoholic.
I going to jump off a cliff now, Byyyyyyyyyyyeeeee
Nice quote. Unfortunately you need the entire Bible to understand and translate all the reasons.
Very well done. You made God look bad to people.
Then, by all means, use the entire bible to explain that quote other than what it states. Can you?
Put simply, the God of creation says, They are to respect their father and mother - if they don't respect them and rebel as a heathen send them to me.
Don't forget that if God is there then death is a transformation. God is not evil for telling people to send the disobedient ones to Him for a talk.
I could understand how you don't understand. You don't even believe He is real, and therefore death is the end of the line.
We created cars, and if it turns on it's own when you hold the wheel straight... You get it fixed. God's the mechanic for people.
Never heard "Send them to their maker.." ?
That's not even a lesson on the Bible, just common sense.
Probably meant, "Send them to me, before they get worse."
No matter, no more time to waste on you. Enjoy your reply.
Funny thing, one punch broke my father's nose into the right placing, from being broke by someone else. Then he stops being an alcoholic, so it worked out perfectly. I believe everyone is God, It was my first punch and only first punch ever made on anyone, what faint.
A lot of things in the Bible, do not make common sense. Jesus was likely right. It’s just many of the translation are wrong,
Like your comment here
No matter, no more time to waste on you. Enjoy your reply.
Yes, kill your children for being disrespectful.
And, that's moral?
Of course your god is evil if he asks you to kill your children.
Let us know the moment you kill your children for talking back.
Actions speak louder than prayer, prayer may be a comfort to you, it has a 50/50 chance it may reach somewhere else, so go ahead say a prayer , there is no harm.
I prefer to comfort my Japanese friends here in Vancouver in person and do what I can for their country. I have been in Japan a few time and they are one of the beautiful people ever.
If I hear a person like Pat Robertson who cursed Haiti's earthquake for making a pact with the devil and relating to the french too. If Pat tries to condemn low religious Japan with those kinds of prayers. He will get my mail about brainwashing tactics.
And does it occur to you that some else's prayer has lead you to acting on behalf of your Japanese friends?
That would be incredible selfish on their part as prayer does little more than make people feel better about themselves as it does absolutely nothing for anyone else.
So, if it takes someone else praying for one to do something, then that too is just an action to feel better about themselves, especially if they aren't doing it for the plight of those in Japan.
You mean, am I showing just how immoral and unethical your good book really is and how dangerous it is to mankind?
Forget the book, prove God doesn't exist. I can't see Him isn't proof.
Forget the word of your god? No need to bring him into this discussion? You'll tell us all what we need to know?
Ah Beelzedad, I was wondering when you would rear your head in this discussion.
You ever notice how you just can't win with some people? If you pray, you're lazy. If you don't pray, you're just as selfish. There's no pleasing everyone and yet, you know what?
Who the hell cares if you agree with it or not?
The fact that you're posting online shows me that you are not at all effected by either the Earthquake in Japan, or any of the other myriad dangers that are a result of what is going on over there. You're safe in your home and/or place of Internet access, gleefully looking down on people you will likely never meet in real life.
The fact of the matter is, people are dying. People are dying and there is not a hell of a lot the majority of us can do about it.
So rather than spend my time condemning people who are desperate to help but are limited by whatever means hold them back, I am praising the fact that their thoughts and prayers are with those less fortunate.
Yes, I understand that believers don't care what anyone thinks, that's exactly the problem.
I have family in Chiba, thank you very much. We talk to them everyday and currently they can't buy food or gas and have constant rolling blackouts.
You were saying?
Glad they have you beelzedad.
hope they can recover, the place is in bad shape. All my best wishes.
Beezledad I think you make random eratic statemnents intended to provoke or agitate and you have the nerve to acuse Christians of being violent?
Pot calling the kettle black isnt it
Cant speak for anyone else (like you are doing) but I have never killed my children ,and I dont force anyone to believe in what I believe in ,not do I teach my kids to disrespect atheists or anyone who chose to believe in whomever.
It probably isnt going to happen ,but it would be mature if you recognise the facts.
In other words, you don't follow the word of your god, you do as you please and then tell us that we are to follow the word of your god in order to be saved. The hypocrisy never ends.
No, I dont tell you what to do. ( Well maybe I hope you listen to m e)
No again to disobeying God for he expects me to care for my children whom he has gifted
But, if they ever talk back to you, you must kill them according to gods word. If not, you are indeed disobeying your god.
We can also work through the piles of verses in the bible in which you would also disobey. There's plenty of them to go around.
I've gotten so irritated with Pat Robertson's advertised statements twice that I googled his website and sent him scathing comments. It worked once. He must have received so much hate mail he withdrew his statement and apologized.
but someone can have empathy & compassion & think of others without prayer
It may help some keep calm, apparantly there are no atheists on a battle field.
Guess not. Prayer was totally useless all the years I used to pray.
More than a billion prayers a day if spread over 2,000 years, how about the odds of not one single documented piece of proof for a single prayer being answered?
Ahhh..... Earnest, there you go again with inserting the word 'documented', matters not a jot that millions of believers will testify that prayer works, and can quote examples, you cannot accept it as it's not 'documented'.....
BB never had a prayer answered!
I cannot dispute that of course, no documented evidence, irrespective of the fact that she may not have realized that her prayers were being answered, or that maybe she never knew to pray in accordance with Gods will, like I said, I have no way of knowing, not without 'documented evidence' and of course that documented evidence is so very hard to find when one is dealing in the spiritual realm....
Maybe God saved some Japanese survivors that we never managed to get documented, perhaps there are people out there who were due to visit that area and got diverted at the last moment, they may have even been atheists, but had believers praying for them, so God intervened, but they will never know, and it will never be 'documented' and until God can be exposed in black and white, pinned to a board and able to be examined and ' 'documented' our secular friends will keep plodding away to discredit that which they cannot accept, because it's not 'documented'.
Good concept, keep plodding away, further and further from God that is....
I really do hope it is further away, a bad person like me would be in sooo much trouble in close with your god.
You seem to miss that in signaling any intervention of your god, you are condemning all those who died.
Hey ernest. I don't think it would be a bad thing for you to be close in to God. I would imagine a God would appreciate fair questions, and be happy to explain them. I'd be asking hard questions too, if I believed weather patterns and natural disasters were being used against us. It would be a strange kind of deity.
Yes it would be a strange deity. A murderous callous one like in the OT.
Ok. You are right, but I believe that was meant to showcase man's inherent nature only. Either way, whether we agree or disagree on the texts from our past, the reality of the here and now is what we must deal with. This belief that somehow the leprechaun next door is out to get us needs to die a quick and, hopefully, merciful death.
I can agree with your first comment, except scripture tells us:
Job 34:21-23 (Amplified Bible)
For [God's] eyes are upon the ways of a man, and He sees all his steps. There is no darkness nor thick gloom where the evildoers may hide themselves. [God] sets before man no appointed time, that he should appear before [Him] in judgment.
As to your second point, no way, I am not condemning anyone, like it says above "God sets before man no appointed time, that he should appear before Him in judgment." so we each make our own pathway to eternity, no point in blaming me or anyone else for other peoples deaths.
I would guess that there may have been believers killed that day also, and from the video I have seen it would have been a fast but horrific death.
The big difference would be that the believers were better able to stand before God in judgement when they met Him.
Of course if my faith, belief and trust is in error, then I guess they all just got obliterated and that was that and it's on THAT point that we stake our eternal existence.
re condemning those who died - yep, that's what is is implying. Is illogical and actually cruel. Same with the plonkers that say bad things are punishment from god.
So god might decide to act on a few prayers & spare a few - but not totally - they will likely have nightmares from the awful things they saw.
Lots of people are saying they are praying for no more earthquakes, no more tsunamis etc. People aren't going to come back to life. Earthquakes & tsunamis have been happening longer than humans have walked earth, so they're not going to stop because of any devine intervention.
The Bible is Earnest's "documented" answers to prayers, but He's concluded that document an exception from the pile.
I should just stand aside and let you speak for me.
No No.. Please affirm or deny whether the hundreds of accounts of answered prayers in the Bible are accountable in your view.
aqua, I absolutely agree with your replies. Some believe prayers are useless? Many are living today because of the prayers of believers.
And, many more are dead today. Notice that praying has the same effect as not praying.
Nice twist Beelzedad, My statement was not applying to those who are dead. Have a happy day.
Of course, I know, but it should hav applied if you wanted to make your statement valid.
I thought you were a good person.... you are not well are you
I'm very well thank you.
I cannot understand how one can give a god "credit" for burying babies alive in a natural disaster. What is that saying about the dead? That they were sinners and god wanted them wiped out? Even the unborn and newly born? Or is it OK cos they were gonna grow up to be atheists?
you have a huge chip on your shoulder........ God is not the god of this system, Satan is........ God's time will come, i hope i live to see it, but if i dont i am confident god has a plan, and whatever we say or do, it will happen.........
How are your grandchildren, your gifts from God.
As usual you do not make a logical argument. Either god did the hurricanes or he didn't. Please make up your mind. Are you now saying Satan did it?
and apparently god made satan and evil too as god made everything and fails to act. Good people get destroyed along with the bad - no special favours from god. People just hold out believing that maybe they will get to live in a fantasy-land free of pain.
Sure, now it's back to blaming the evil on God.
I thought humans created their own problems?
One viewpoint would prove useful.
I was being sarcastic. I don't believe in god nor satan - no need for scapegoats to shirk responsibility.
Yes, humans create their own problems. Humans can also figure out how to solve their problems too.
Yes, humans create their own problems. Humans can also figure out how to solve their problems too.
In case you hadnt noticed ,mankinds not doing too well.
Religion has been controlling mankind for most of the last 5000 years,
Do you think it's time for mankindto make more of its own Adjustments, rather than continue living in med evil times compounding sin?
Satan has had enough,
I have many times agreed that Religion has more than been responsible for atrocities throughout history.
I am also of the opinion that it is men (and can be women) who instruct ,and/or accept these initatives. They most definately say they have their orders from on high-I dont disagree that people will say anything to manipulate their desires.
It could also be said that every country even today does the same thing. Fights under God and Country etc.
I say thats convenient for them to say so ,in fact mankind will say anything to get what they want.
Yes I agree it has always been time for people to make their own decisions...
Murder is murder (War) no matter whose creed it is.
All I want is a friendlier world , more kindness rather than more Religion.
I'M a BAAAAAAAAAADD Boy
in case you haven't noticed, the religious in particular aren't doing too well
it was a natural disaster.......
Satan is god of the system at the moment, because god is allowing him to be. That is why god is not stepping in right now........
I have no chip on my shoulder at all........ but your work always shows you do, it really does, in the forum at least....... get it analysed, by a professional, what would i know, i am nobody. Without a chip. ha ha
Very insulting and not funny. Why not address the argument instead of side stepping with smarmy remarks?
your god is helpless or doesn't care if he/she/it allows satan (another mythical being) to rule the roost. Interestingly, every culture has creation stories, flood stories, a saviour, a devil (usually one that lives in dark waterways and eats people) eg Taniwha, Buniup
Joy, Yes Satan is the ruler of this earth. God has a plan, and he will step in right on time, not before, but right on time. No offence, seems like some are confused about why God is allowing these things to happen.
Just like the surgeon says surgery is a bad idea, but the parents are like...
"My baby needs the surgery! My baby needs to be better!!"
But obviously, just because something bad is happening now, you can't exactly fix it the way the parents want? And the surgeon knows better, and that it'll probably kill the poor sap?
I guess if a surgeon knows better than a parent, then a God can know better than humans huh? And I'm sure the surgeon knows that there's probably a pill that will help the kid in the long run right?
dum dump de dum. I'll suck on the thumb. I'll think until i'm numb... and then tell God I know better than him and He's not where I come from.
Hi vector, I fully agree. God knows what's best for us. This is why he has a plan. There is a time for everything. God will fix this mess on this earth on his time. I love the last part of your reply.
Hey WOC, the fact that you believe a god knows what is best for you other than you do...is utterly ridiculous. Not to mention, sad.
Why not reply and pick on me? Something personal?
I did make the initial point I do believe. And I think that it's sad that you have to skip straight to you believing your better than God.
Unfortunately. I know He is real. And I am afraid for you. For I have seen many go to the grave telling God off. I also know they aren't happy right now.
Go ahead, your hostility is appreciated. For though I don't like that you are against God, you might as well increase my blessings for suffering persecution from you.
I love you Cagsil.
Okay, you now have my attention.
I am my authority. No other authority required.
Only a deluded person would claim to "know" a god is real. Other than that of a belief.
You wouldn't have a clue.
See what has happened to you- you expect hostility.
You're funny. Just like all the other religious believers.
If you actually felt love for me, then you wouldn't be expecting me to be hostile. So much for what you 'know'.
Cagsil, Actually, God knows what's best for everyone. I don't feel sad about it at all.
Hmmm... Hostility, Mockery, Sarcasm...
Take your pick, I could care less how you categorise it.
But WOC, don't you think that, in the interim, it is our obligation to work together to fix our own mess? We made this. What happens if you're wrong about the timing? Are we simply going to plug along; business as usual? This planet won't survive the industrialization of every nation. We're choking ourselves out of existence. It is entirely possible that we'll kill ourselves before too long if we don't make drastic changes.
Yes, I think it will be great if people will fix their own mess, but it takes action to do it, and I doesn't seem to be happening. Anyone who is observing can see that things are getting worse with all this greed of mankind and so many other things. Talk is cheap. It takes the right action to get things done correctly. The bible teaches about God's timing. You are rejecting God if you are disagreeing with his word. The bible is not a book of opinions. Man wrote the bible, but the scriptures were inspired by the power of God.
I disagree with interpretations. Anything done not in the spirit of the teachings of Christ, which displayed a rejection of none and a love of everything ( with the exception of the twisted nature of the teaching of the religious leaders) is not in line with the intent.
I find it interesting that Jesus was called the Reason of God and there is, at times, no reason in the argument for some interpretations of the scriptures.
He does say to fix our mess, by doing what He says to do:
37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. 34 Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
In verse 33 Christ says to do the things which prosper God's kingdom and bring people to His salvation. If you do this, then all your needs will be given you. And If we follow the two commandments in the top verses, then we will be doing everything we can to fix our mess. God will fix what we as humans cannot.
Where is your place in this kingdom? Are you to inherit the earth? It would be nice if we'd all have respect for your inheritance. What if others are to inherit the earth? Maybe they wil be the ones who were hungry for justice. What punishment will await those who soiled this inheritance? Does your interpretation show the mercy Jesus spoke of? What of the pure of heart? Is purity a christian monopoly?
Don't forget the last of the beatitudes. In many, many ways your interpretation is at odds with this inheritance. You may be furiously digging a grave for yourself. with this persecution of people with this harsh interpretation.
@WOC (no reply button) - yes, talk is cheap. That's kind of my point about prayer
Yes, he first has to kill all the infidels and gays.
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. Romans 1:24-32 NLT
Oh dear.. I love you man.. Boy do I love you... "Natural" is the keyword here.. And no, I don't hate anyone. Heading you off on that road little buddy.
All the rest of it, I have no need to explain...
vector, Amen. It is truly a blessing to be obedient to God's word.
bailey, I respectfully disagree with your point.
and are the children born with a brain missing 'gifts' too?
I don't believe anything is a gift from god. Take rainbows - not a promise from god, but an optical effect resulting from raindrops reflecting & refracting light. Can't make your own rainbows with the garden hose.
now you are winding me, you know well god sent a rainbow, to promise he would never flood the earth again........... You read it, the Abrahamic Covenant....... ha
hey where did my reply go?
was indoctrinated with the bible for half my life.
They didn't understand rainbows back then - rainbows and other phenomena have often been interpreted as supernatural
so you mean god broke his promise when HE flooded Pakistan last year?...come one joy , you are taking book too seriously...i understand when people take essence of it but taking it literally is bit too much...
and we got floods in most of Queensland, Australia recently. Many victims feel forgotten after the initial help in cleanup
Not to flood the EARTH. Please remark on things fully understood so as not to mislead others in incorrect assumptions.
You cannot possibly believe that the story of Noah is to be taken as meaning the whole earth. How in the world can you wrap that around reality? To think it was a localized deluge is the only way to line it up with any sane take on the text, if you believe it happened in the first place and isn't simply there to teach a lesson.
you obviously haven't thought this through ie there is not enough water to flood the earth up to the mountain tops, one cannot possibly fit all the different species of animals on, with food for nearly a year, and what about afterwards? How did the kangaroos only end up in Australia? What did they have to eat when everything was dead?
I read a hub yesterday called 'Praying for Japan'. It was about the earthquakes are a sign of the 'end-times' and they are praying people will 'get saved' by god before it is too late.
Or maybe they just have a heart and faith in a God you personally don't believe in. They don't call you ridiculous for not believing. And no one has proof that God exists, or doesn't exist.
Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge? As so many tell Christians not to do.
have a heart....that comes up so much, but no-one seems to be able to define this 'heart' you christians harp on about
Seems to me that you are hard to please ,no let me correct that ,impossible.
Why would anyone try?.
You appear to ask questions,that your mind already has made up.
She has a bit of a point there, in what Christians lack in thinking things through, they make up in being grateful. if they’re not out condemning most of the world's people
Yes, I am hard to please, but not impossible. I am not easily persuaded by arguments that lack substance (yes, I've heard all the christian pat answers & cliches before, many times).
I currently think prayer is useless (from own experience and thinking it through) and am wondering what others think about this, hence starting this thread.
You have a different viewpoint no matter the stated circumstance. So long as it's against God.
There are many Gods out there and each group claiming they have the one and true GOD. Most members of each group are against each others God. When everyone is God, that means no fighting, more loving, not against other people because being against anything is just joining the problem.
I'm not against anything, just not for some things, like over dominates of Religions. Just shrink Religion to a size where people are more spiritual being first, rather than separate people and their spirit
That makes a better question, what gives vector7?
Prayer is to get the pray-er up and active doing what God would have them do - which is to help.
I see lot nonfiction films where war troops almost always do a prayer in the name of God before going into battle.
I have better Idea, don't pray, don't go into hell of a battle and spread radiation. Don't blame Satan in the end, avoid all that.
The prayer for Japan will not help as much as money or kindness, nothing selfish about that.
speaking of battle, I recall much reference to 'spiritual warfare' & 'being in god's army', etc - a bit disturbing really
People are often disturbed by things they dont understand.
How do you understand wars between predominate religious countries or nation for over and over for 50 centuries, how did prayers help.
You said religious... Not Christ's true followers..
I know they helped (prayers) because I trust in a God who loves me and is not a man so therefore doesnt lie.
Or do you see the glass as half full or half empty.
I see it full ,every day to overflowing.
People die through ,war ,vicious crimes, accidents,natural causes-such is life ,as we know it.
How do we know prayer has no effect? because we dont see an instant answer? or because it wasnt what we expected? or we simply didnt believe anything was going to happen.
Jesus explained it all.
But the people who love Jesus already know the 'power of prayer' and the other people who are suspicious ,wont be convinced anyway.
I will give Christians the same chance in prayer as I would give all Religions a 50/50 chance. We must keep everyone equal in God’s eyes
Just remember the countless numbers of things unseen prior to our intelligent technological advances.
And once you shut your mind to something, you'll never see it true until it slaps you in the face.
I know your stance is firm, but again not just for you.
There are actual evidences that people muster away with explanations. But when you start to accept a few things, the proof comes out the woodwork. God reveals to those who diligently seek with finding Him in mind. Don't ask me why or how, but I've seen it over, and over, and over again. Before I finally believed myself, and after.
Notice as well how the more intelligent we become, the smaller and more powerful the things we create are. Then look at your body and see if it isn't more complex than the most highly advanced piece of machinery on the planet. It even self-repairs. I want a car to do that. It's not about fear, and Hell, and God being bossy. It's about something outside of our knowledge that happened where we changed from what we should be, everyone equal to each other in love. . . to disobedient, selfish, and so on into a domino of what we are today. The domino effect is not just a fun setup with blocks. It describes how operating systems with malfunctions in the information of their designs come to failure. On Windows operating systems, you get a single error. This leads to two or so. Then the two errors become a missing system file. Which in turn leads to a failing program, that aids four other programs. And in turn crashes the system over a span of roughly four weeks. And to no avail, Re-install required. Why? One little flaw.
God is good and gives, and I'll admit He sounds like an over publicised joke because of the light people shed on Him. But the Bible has insights only available to those who really spend time to find them. Not searching to prove it wrong. Adam and Eve could do whatever they wanted subtract one thing, no matter the metaphor, they were happy. But disobedience rendered them flawed, and then the domino effect of a single flaw in a system. Look at today's world. Just like Windows... One error, mass failure.
And why is it so hard to believe when the human body itself starts out as two cells? Just the same humanity started out with two people. Moses certainly didn't know anything about cells or the human body beginning in that fashion, and yet we are called the body of Christ, which started way back then, not after Christ came. The Bible talked of Christ before you ever get out of Genesis.
The truth is the world is full of lies. Lying is not a natural thing, as we should have no need to lie if we are loving. But God is nothing but truth. But we can't believe the truth because we've learned that people lie, and that we must decide when things are unreasonable that someone is lying. In the case of the Bible, hundreds of people. But they aren't lying. Not a single one. It is a historical account of the chess game that God has set in action to blind side Satan and every other pawn on the board in order to save those of His body in service to Him, so He may again give them the goodness He wishes to give.
Course I'm sure someone will 'logic' or 'reason' it to death. They will simply prove the point.
Love you all...
Well, sticks and stones can break my bones, but names can never hurt me. Have you ever been mugged, it hurts a hell of lot more than words. Your word in prayer for salvation for most people in the world and for most Japanese is not important to them. Christian hell in afterlife is not important to most of us on this planet. You would do better praying for Japan only your good intentions if you have nothing physical to give.
I have been much worse than mugged.. Not that the question is relevant or necessary, but now you know.
I'm very aware your unconcerned, you are a broken record in that respect. And thank you for setting the worlds opinion in stone. I'm sure my words should be completely silenced considering you personally reject them.
And I'm very poor actually. And have given much of what I did have away to others in greater need than myself.
And you didn't read the last line I suppose. I appreciate the response.
You go into so many areas,it is hard to follow. If you are poor then prayer your good intention, to Japan
Go ahead , Pray for jesus to help atheist, Jews non religion people ereaststud Mark, PC, earnestshub see if they care
I'm not againist anything
I'm certainly not expecting them to care.. lol
I'm sorry I'm so hard to follow.
Your against me spreading my opinion. But I'll admit I have been a little too overzealous in my attempts. You guys already know everything you need to. My brain works to fast for me sometimes and I forget to leave off of paper or the keyboard. Sorry about that..
Good that you notice, a little more simplified on the topic.
I am not against anything, it's just I have strong opinion I admit not everyone wants to get,
@Castlepaloma you got it right...it is not whether one prays to sun or jesus or sai...it is function of faith and how convinced your brain is that it can act based on that convictions...so you are right ...
I have faith in up, down and sideways and yes some strong conviction and faith in my artwork growing. Also giving to the land more than taking from it, being a bit of a greenie.
Japan almost breaks my heart, yet I do know they are a strong people. it's also luck of the draw building their lives on a earth plates that moves , it could happen to us here in Vancouver BC also.
What's your convictions pisean?
Praying to the sun? You mean a ball of burning hydrogen?
Sun gives us.many things food energy even life
Is Jesus under the sun of god
people used to worship the sun. If one looks at history of christianity, there is good reason to believe it evolved from other religions, including those with sun worship
You mean you pray to your camp fire as well? It has kept many alive I'm sure.
Yes we can prove the Sun is real and works.
Where is your Physical proof that your God are doing his work for everyone on earth, when most people are not even aware of Jesus?
at least we can see the sun and know we get benefit from it
Eaglekiwi, Very true, and some mock things they don't understand also.
Better to mock than to go to war, ignore or hate other groups.
If you give me a decent mock or insult, I am learning more about myself and I say thank you. The fearless types know it's all a matter of understanding
Mockery is disrespect, and I am guilty of it myself on this post, just now noticing my error. I should not have mocked any of you.
And I apologise.
But mockery only adds fuel to the tiny flames of disagreement, and is wrong.
I only challenge disagreements with humor it is not disrespectful. Disrespect is not my part of my source of good intention.
Vector bone up and have some fun, you’re not going to mock an atheist ever, hah ha ha
I was addressing the lot of them actually. In my apology and otherwise.
I was simply replying to mockery being better than war, which it is. But the lesser of two evils leads to the war. Just as the battle may be lost and the war is won. Many battles are in essence personal wars. I just find it very 'loaded' ground as your never sure when a betty will go off from the slightest wrong step.
I certainly was not 'coaching' you by any means. There are plenty others of which would deserve that much more so than you. Not only that, but my statements are only available to those who will accept them. Unlike those who demand things, I for one 'actually' follow God's rules of love, and for two am very well aware that demanding words are like attempting to shove the horses face in the water, in which case he simply runs off with your saddle...
I'm sure I understand what christians mean by 'spiritual warfare' etc. I still find it disturbing that they go for the war metaphors, given war is so horrible
could prayer be an excuse NOT to help - ie make the person praying feel they are genuinely doing something useful?
No harm in prayer, yet dose that really mean to a nation mainly of non religious Japanese,
Payer to them is like a cheap donation rather than real money, action or have some kind of phyical contact with them, this is for most of them anyways
Doing something helpful and praying are the things Christians are told to do. Unsure about anyone else. But to just pray and say "I've done my part" is ridiculous and lazy on any Christians part. Unless they physically can't help in some way, or maybe financially or whatever the case may be, praying should be with, not the only thing they do.
I would have thought that by now, after all the carnage caused by natural disasters, and the horror that follows, the idea that prayer helps would have died of natural causes!
Very kind atheist you are to be so open as to allow others to their opinion without trashing it. That is not very nice Earnest.
When did earnest convert to Atheists , why are we not as old as 969 years old like one man is in the bible. I guess we are all not good enough at praying, so who trashing who?
I'm very unsure at what your trying to imply. I simply said I think it unkind to sarcastically remark about something important to another group of people. And I'm unsure, but He doesn't believe in my God, and the sarcasm is still noted. What is it that I said wrong exactly?
A lot things are middle grounds ask earnest where he is at. Few things need to be so extremely right or wrong, like if one is atheist and you’re with your God the one and only.
Knowing a few things about Japan culture and is mainly non Religious will their dead go the heaven or Hell. You will find Buddhish and nature has their own form of recycling death afterlife
Please give a thought or prayer of good intention it can be helpful, just not in so much in an imposed salvational way.
Praying that God will give the survivors in Japan the mental strength to endure will make a difference. I am sure there are people in Japan that will appreciate the prayers to help them cope with the devastating ordeal which they are facing right now. I have giving my donations to help Japan. We have to realize everyone does not have money at this time to donate. That's why many are praying to God to give these people the strength to make it through each day.
Apparently you are correct. The Japanese Emperor has just said he will pray for Japan.
Hi earnest, really? That's very good. I have been watching CNN regularly to keep posted on what's going on.
As you may have guessed, I listen to the ABC here in Australia.
.... and the BBC out of London which includes specialist Asian and European stations.
I love you WOC... Your truly a gift from God.
Thank you. I love you too. I give God the glory for he truly deserve it. I have witnessed the power of prayer in my life and in the lives of others.
We've witnessed the power of prayer recently, just like we witnessed it on Boxing Day, 2004. Notice that hundreds of thousands of people died and no amount of prayer made any difference?
Now how about those wireless phones? Can't see the other person so it's got to be a prank right? Invisible stuff doesn't exist. Everyone knows that.
Yes, I understand believers have a difficult time distinguishing reality from fantasy. Everyone knows that.
not at all - I hear the voice of someone I know at the other end, and I can even put it on speakerphone so others can hear - can't do that with god
You prove yourself misunderstanding the implication. Thank you for the input though.
And yes I'm being sincere.
well explain what you meant then if I 'misunderstood'
Radio waves are invisible. Tons of light colors are invisible to us. There is even a fish with 'invisible flesh' and we can't 'see' wind until we feel it. And who's to say that those who 'feel' God are crazy because you can't 'see' Him? I will tell you this, I almost don't want to try to explain for being asked questions not to get answers, but so the person who asked could find a hole to poke in my answer. (and I'm not just implying you)
The harder you look for God, the more of Him you will see. The harder you try to prove He doesn't exist or even doubt that He does without trying to see, the less you will find.
Everything created has intricacies that overlap and explain each other, just based off of common sense observation. I don't need a electron microscope to know that God created me. But it does help to know something had to design machines as small as cells. That's what they are. Billions of little machines that work together like a group of people to do a job. A job that you specify every time you choose a turn or write a word.
That's what I mean. I'm prepared to find a pessimistic response. But will only reply to a positive one.
More logical fallacies. Radio waves, some parts of the light spectrum, fish and the atmosphere are NOT invisible to the instruments that can detect them.
Your god cannot be detected in any way shape or form.
Funny how you can't distinguish that massive difference.
And yet, reality does not agree with you.
vector - no reply under your next comment, so put here
I have tried to see - I was a 'born-again' christian for many years. But real-life observations don't match up.
Actually, it's pretty easy to demonstrate the existence of air, light rays, etc. Not very easy to demonstrate existence of your god or that prayers actually work .
Just because something is complex, like cells, doesn't automatically mean there is a designer.
If, as you say you were a born again Christian, you would understand the idea of Faith- of things 'unseen' things hoped for.
It is easy to see a blue sky ,even understand matter etc, but to give credit to a creator seems to be difficult if not impossible for some people,even those who once walked in Truth.
To each their own ,and respect your choice to choose differently,however that doesnt change the facts for me
people will be resilient & survive - otherwise, the human race would have been wiped out long ago. I think you are deluded in your belief that prayers actually help people be stronger. Might fool the person doing the praying into thinking they are doing something special.
I have to agree to disagree. Praying is special. I find it hard to believe that God didn't answer any of your prayers. It's best to pray God's will is done. Believe it or not, God answers prayers. We may not always recieve the answer which we are expecting. God is a higher spiritual authority, and his ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. The sooner you accept the ways that God intervene, it will reduce the confusion. I am not trying to upset you. I love you Bailey.
I find it creepy that someone that has never met me says they love me.
Why pray for god's will when god does what he wants anyway?
well being ex christian you might be used to this...
God's will changes at times when those He loves ask for mercy. Though the natural order of things set in place by time may bring about harsh things, or when a person does something bad to someone such as kidnapping. The family praying for their daughter to come home safely may be granted God's mercy to change a circumstance and make an exception for those who try to serve Him and beg Him for mercy. It is His will that changes by means of love for those who pray to Him. Of course He's not going to sacrifice His master plan of salvation or something of that nature, but the above situation is a good representation of why and how prayers work. Unless you refuse to believe.
And I love you baileybear.. I love every person on the planet.
cringe.. sorry but I find your sentiments hollow.
And how do you explain things when the person that prayed ends up with their daughter raped & murdered?
I'm guessing you want me to be God?
And I don't understand how my sentiments are hollow. How could you possibly know how I felt about humanity? I did not state I want to marry you. I stated I love you as an intelligent person with ideas, thoughts, family, feelings and much more I'm sure. Cringe away, I'm sorry that love is disgusting to you, but it won't change anything.
Let me guess by the way... God is responsible for that because why? Because He sits in the seat of ultimate authority? I'm certain He will answer you when you see Him, and your not the only one with those questions. That is also not the only bad thing that happens in this world. You say God should bring justice all the time, yet Hell is not to exist? Is the murderer in your scenario to go to Heaven? God gives every man his time on earth to do good or evil. When that person dies, then judgement on whether they looked to find God (Jesus Christ) to fix the disobedient way they were given through the genes of Adam, and whether they 'actually' attempted to do good. We are to try to be as loving as we can and to do good to others. I'm guessing there is a problem with a repeat rapist and murderer going to Hell?
I don't see how anyone can miss the point. Christ Jesus was the 'fix' for all of mankind including Adam and Eve. Anyone who will accept we are imperfect and tell God we need Him, and will attempt to do what is good is accepted by God.
The murderer certainly didn't care whether he was evil, or whether that evil hurt anyone at all. Many times they perpetrate the same acts multiples of times over and over in their lives with NO concern for others bringing utter horror to people who try to love and be good. So God sees NO remorse and no concern for others. No love. Is He to allow that man into Heaven to continue his wonderful attacks? If someone "NEVER" changes and will ALWAYS be cruel and mean and hateful and ALWAYS hurts others, then I don't think it wrong to punish them at all. Heaven is for those who love the God who controls it and those who know we need Him. We are to love and to do good to everyone to the best of our ability. And when we get mad at each other, we are not being loving, and God doesn't like it. Therefore we will need God's grace to 'fix' us before we are to step foot in Heaven, which the murderer will never enter...
love is not disgusting to me.
We are total strangers - to say you love me is totally weird
Yes, love is so totally weird. To those who don't know what it is. Love is not just something you tell your girlfriend when you get little 'fuzzies' inside because you have the hots for her. It is a concern for every living thing. It is caring enough to not want pain inflicted on others. It is 'I care about you as an individual who in unique' and it doesn't matter if I know you or not.
That kind of attitude is exactly why Hitler got so far into his genocide of attempting to exterminate the Jews. Because no one 'loved' them because they were 'strangers.' And the indifference caused by a lack of actual consideration left fear to overpower anyone who would have said something.
Loving someone I don't know is not weird. That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. You must be calling Jesus Christ weird for sure, because He is the reason I love you. And He loves you as well.
The problem in this world today is that people are controlled by 'fear' of nearly everything. You can't leave your doors unlocked. You can't walk alone in the dark without some 'weird' guy trying to stalk or hurt you. You can't hire a babysitter without doing a background check. And you certainly can't turn your head while your child is on the swing at the park.
If people had just a little bit of love in their heart for their fellow man or woman, we wouldn't have all those things to be afraid of. Because when you love people, you respect them and you wouldn't do wrong things against them. Love is NOT weird...
Even funnier- Jesus isn't Jesus Christ.
Christ was only added to his name, because Christianity, the religion was born/began.
so now I'm being compared with Hitler. You don't know me, so why do you assume I don't know what love is? Love isn't a bunch of empty words
Please re-read the paragraph and try not to accuse me with inaccurate statements.
I said no such a thing.
I have told a very large number of people I love them on these threads, yet you cringe as in what? Is the implication not that I am in some way overly mushy or sentiments of the sort. I do believe you've stated twice your personal view on love. It is not an assumption and not inaccurate unless you lied of course.
And now your implying that kind words are useless, or that you know whether I do kind things to people of which I interact with in person.
I think I'm done here. Your talking in circles. No I love yous. Just for you.
did you not say 'that kind of attitude...got Hitler so far into his genocide..."?
Where did I state my views on love?
I was being honest telling you it was weird to say you love people you don't know. I'm sure I'm not alone thinking this.
But, if you can't handle honesty...
Seeing as it's hard for you. Let me explain so you don't continue to tell people what I compared you to when I didn't.
"That kind of attitude is exactly why Hitler got so far into his genocide of attempting to exterminate the Jews. Because no one 'loved' them because they were 'strangers.' And the indifference caused by a lack of actual consideration left fear to overpower anyone who would have said something."
Not loving strangers is what I said you did. And that's exactly what people did that kept on walking when they seen the Jews being persecuted and carried away. They cared about people. They just didn't LOVE them, and so the fear Hitler instilled in them was enough to keep their mouths shut because they were too afraid of Hitler, and didn't sincerely, sincerely care about the Jews because they were "strangers" and they weren't killing them in front of them. And you don't put your neck on the line to say something against Hitler if you don't LOVE the people because your own life matters more.
I did NOT compare you to Hitler. Please think things through before making incorrect accusations.
Hi Bailey, I love everyone. It doesn't matter to me if I have not met someone personally.
lets be practical here - how can you LOVE over 6 BILLION strangers you have never met? Including the murderers, rapists etc?
I love my husband and my son. I do not have the capacity to love 6 BILLION people that I do not know.
Yet sometimes I hear you having the capacity to judge and denergrade Christians ,that you do not know either?
I accept that you have your own opinions and experiences to share,but I wish you wouldntlet it cloud the experiences of others.
I'm no longer a christian, apparently I'm an "evil" atheist, so I have no moral obligation to not judge
I wasnt big on judging people before I met Jesus.
I am even less so now.
Just secure in who I am and who I belong too ,and where Im headed
Your group is more judgmental than any other group I have experience
I have a group?
Do you mean my new mothers support group or
Immigrants adjustment group or
New crafts for 2011 group or
Curves for womens group.
Ohhhh Christian group?
Guess ya wanna put me in a box ,label me ,and read the charges huh?
do you and other christians tell people they're going to hell?
How odd. I just read a pretty judgmental hub you wrote about America no longer using the word of god and instead using actual facts. And you think you are not judging people?
This is what happens when you think you "belong" to an invisible Super Being and need to fight a spiritual war.
Pity you (and the rest of your group) don't keep this war where it belongs.
In the "spirit" realm.
My hub was exploring the fact that Science has its place ,but it is not if going to replace God and His morals.
Gods morals ,not the morals man advocates are gods,for as most of us know they can be distorted or corrupted.
The hostilty you present to me Mark because I love God and question why society has deterioated snce God left the classroom etc offers no constructive input.
All you do is spit out angry words.
I find that a great shame! to you and your lot.
What nonsense - I do not present hostility towards you because you love god. I present hostility towards you because you preach nonsense and attack progress. You show me absolutely no respect and blame whatever you perceive as ill with society as being the fault of stopping mandatory bible reading in schools. This is utter garbage.
I do not accept that slavery is morally acceptable. You do apparently. I don't care what you claim to love - why do you feel the need to force your religion on the rest of us? Including innocent children.
As I recall - you were not even living in Amerika in 1955 when the bible was being taught in classes - and segregation was the norm.
So - what does the word of god say? Is it slavery or segregation that is OK - morally speaking?
have I attacked you or other christians here personally? I have asked valid questions here and shared my observations and debated ideas.
So far on this thread, I have been personally accused of being hateful, judgmental, disgusted by love & more.
Seems like some people cannot stay objective when debating ideas and resort to personal attacks.
I never mentioned the word 'attack'
Im not that thin-skinned.
No I said what I meant.
natural disaster speaks for itself - nothing and nobody can change it but people can learn from it analysing it and make conclusions;
if New Orleans is flooded every year isn't it clear that nature takes possession of the space and no prays an help those people to avoid it - nature simply shows them to go away to another place to live.
Nature is the one who knows best and makes harmony beyond our understanding what and how everything should be;
so when natural disasters are happened there is a reason for it: either it was the wrong place to live on from the very beginning or that was just a matter of when not a matter of if disaster happened.
people at some point know disaster is coming but they ignore it willingly or unwillingly.
This made me laugh On one side they claim god being highly powerful, ugabuga controls everything including time and on second side, gods time will come ? tsk tsk.
I would like to see just one conversation on religion where one of my points is argued instead of a goddunnit. I argue about religion with a good knowledge of the subject, where is the counter point?
I can never get a believer to discuss brain chemistry and how it effects belief, mind sciences and what we know about religiosity in relation to the mind, discussions by religionists about Lawrence Krauss and other religious detractors opinions and why they are wrong, a religionist who has read "the hedonistic imperative, or anything else about the human condition and how it relates to the discussion, the subconscious and how it fits in to belief, or anything other than "the good book." It makes me feel they just don't read anything that disagrees with them. I will discuss the bible and quote it, why nothing from the other side. (Apart from a discourse with one religious hubber. just curious, no one else seems able to broaden the discussion to include any other information. I'm just about over it. Closed minds?
oh good does that mean you are going to give us a bit of peace.
are you allowed to swear on the forums we will give it a try
I think you are pretty safe Joy I won't report it.
... and I thought only my parrot loved me!
what colour is the parrot..... colour colour colour
Eric is a green person/parrot. He is smaller than a cockatoo and a very noisy bad little bird! When he is very bad he bites and screeches as loud as a fire truck. I hate him! Not really, but he is a little turd! He bashes cats, dogs and people.
Hey ernest. Don't get mad and leave already. You are very intetesting.
Hey curious, I hope the last word in your post wasn't a Freudian slip!
So sorry. I swype and come up with the oddest words some times. I think you are definitely interesting. You have good thoughts.
Thank you, you are too kind. All three of my little grandchildren buy and sell me daily!
I am waiting to hear that one of them has grown up and become a morman or j.w. or someting, and actually had you wondering......... how could you not follow one of them into their world..... ha ha ah
I dunno Joy, the eldest twin girl has already asked me who made the big bang. She saw it on TV apparently.
I have allowed all my kids to learn about anything they like including religion. No takers yet. My Chinese son (adopted) was born in PRC and bought up without a god, He was a chorister in one of our largest churches for 6 years! Guess who drove him and went to all his choir practice with him.
I empathize. Kids walk all over me too, but they're only kids once and they let me pretend to be a kid too, so it's worth it.
I secretly love to give them lots of freedom of expression, I get to hear so much kid stuff, and it is truly a beautiful thing. Children reduce me to tears of joy at times. Must be gettin old and soft!
Kids definitely have a unique and refreshingly honest outlook. No shame, or age, required for tears of joy in my book. Just means you appreciate the important things in life.
The little boy is six, his twin sisters are 5. They are too cute for words! You are spot on, kids lay it on the line. I heard the younger twin mumble "Silly granpa" the other day, then she flashed me a brilliant smile! I was being silly but did not expect to be called on it!
Sometimes I wish they weren't so smart!
Hey. I should apologize for being so obnoxious when our paths first crossed. You're actually a pretty intelligent guy, who appears to be interested in dialogue across the great divide of belief. I hadn't run across any serious combination of the two, so I was unprepared for the experience. I hope you will forgive me.
Sure just curious, no bad feelings here!
I am a student of life with an insatiable thirst for knowledge which lead me to know I don't know much.
My life has been one of high risk high stakes with me factoring the risk. I love the edge, I love life.
I know this about myself.
Part of my success in business was due to having a brilliant memory..... but only for the things I LIKED or needed to know. I can recall all the engine specifications for hundreds of models of bulldozers, cars, trucks, motorcycles and more without effort, but forget my own birthday, and even the birthday of my kids a few times if I am preoccupied.
I am eccentric, and have learned to live with it. I talk to everything except grass! I have long conversations with all sorts of animals and birds, I am a nutter I guess, but we seem to understand each other at least as I see it! The animals I mean.
I always enjoy reading your posts, Earnest. I get your humour when others accuse you of being things you weren't.
Sounds like some Asperger traits there?
Aspurgers at a minimum!
Being human is a buzz whatever we wind up getting from the great lottery of life. I am a simple and practical man who is fascinated by all philosophy and ideas that life puts forward.
I gotta say, I love life, and always have. In a way, it just gets better and better.
Your humour is fantastic and dry wit,well almost has me roflmao
Awesome you communicate with all living things ( cept grass,lol) just dont do crowds, huh? hehe...Nah shows you love life!...
Reckon Im a bit like that myself, and my dad (long passed now) was alot like that!!, wow its a great legacy earnest eh.
It sure is a good legacy. I truly do talk to all sorts of critters. I don't need a reply. That would assume I know how they communicate, and sometimes I don't.
Dogs, cats and birds are a breeze, as they train us to understand them, other animals, seem to me to respond well to a friendly vibe, although other than empirical evidence, I got nutthin!
Thats so neat ,but ya got me thinking now.
I dont want to assume anything ,but heres the thing.
You see humans as being animals too right?
I dont ,I see humans as being created a little higher.
I know thats a whole other topic, but I just thought ,how interesting different people with two different belief systems ,yet able to feel and communicate with the same sensitivety, and respect of animals. Its all good to me.
I opologise ahead of time if I assumed wrongly above..( cuz its irritating when people stereotype me) ..but anyway I love observing animals and people watching ,wonder if theres a connection ......
Yes I see humans as animals, sentient animals therefore intelligent. I see the subconscious mind in humans as being almost unknown, yet a big part of who we are and what drives us.
Some people are lucky and some are not, but it does seem to depend on where we are born and in to what sort of culture. We don't have a choice in that, or I would be a better person than someone born in a poor country, and I certainly am not.
In a rich country it is easier to be focused on our subconscious minds real path for us and "follow the heart" actions to determine our "luck" a lot of the time. Religion or a belief in gods or a god play no part in any of that in my life. edit:
I like Lawrence Krauss's explanation of what I am, it has a lot of fine science behind it. I am star dust.
Really ? how do you know ?
which channel is airing this reliable holy information ?
Prayers have no use against calamities. Calamities are allowed by God
I don't think anyone is trying to be malicious by saying they will pray for Japan's victims and survivors. It's their way of saying "I have empathy for the people suffering in this situation and I truly hope that things will improve". I'm not religious, so I don't tell people I will pray for them but when something bad happens I do usually say "they are in my thoughts" or something like that. It's a way of recognizing that something terrible has happened and that I'm not ignoring it.
Of course, prayer and "good thoughts" aren't actually going to actually be of any tangible help, so I'd prefer if we all backed up our prayers and good thoughts with donations and aid, but I don't think just saying "I'm praying for things to get better" is a bad thing. It's meant to be a kind thing.
I doubt that there is malice in it - probably just more foolishness.
Just curious as to how people think it really helps, or whether it is just a figure of speech these days to say they are praying.
I don't think they mean it to help tangibly, it's more an attempt to let the victims and survivors know that other people are aware of the situation and feel bad for them. It's meant as emotional support.
Prayer and action is doubling ya efforts I say lol.
Baileybear if you dont think prayer helps ,easy answer is dont do it -logic really
How profound. Would that everyone followed such a simple and sage piece of advice we could move on to more interesting and worthy discussions.
You tha bomb kiwi..
(you hear things at mcdonalds..)
Do you pray also for other Religions or other predominate non religious contries like Japan dead, not to go to hell?
My brother who is a pastor prays for my Atheist mother at her death to go to heaven, do you think it worked?
Can you pray without Jesus salvation?
You ask many questions. I think the best person to ask would be God. If you don't believe in God then I suppose the answer to your questions would prove useless.
I do asked a question to God, if I do ask a silly question, then God gives me a silly answers.
Then I ask a better question related and get a quiet voice better answer, then what I thought could be.
The answer this time, be closer to my Japanese friends and do what you can to help.
God has certainly told me to do that. He does demand our action when we can as He didn't give us hands and feet for nothing.
And I'll admit, it's hard to believe God answers prayers when you can't hear a voice. Took me a long time to hear His voice. And it's not in my ears...
vector no talk of weapons on my shift please ,you'll get me shot -oops ..
Oh hey funny you mentioned Micky'D's ,it was actually Walmart,I kid you not, these ladies thought I was sweet( think it was the accent) hehe and what do ya know ,next thing we were talkin about food standards, and free food samples (like where were they ) and as we munched and crunched on new Tortilla chips ,I said:
I wonder if Jesus ever had chip n dip this good!!
I made new friends
you might have found this boring, but I think the responses have been quite interesting
No bailey bear. The answers are interesting. And enlightening. It has been my observation that the enlightenment is lop sided. Perhaps a different tack is in order? This one appears on a course to no where, but I just got here a month or two ago. I doubt I have been here long enough to make a studied judgement.
which side seems more enlightened to you? I am pleased that the thread has generated interesting discussion - didn't know how to word the OP being such a delicate subject matter, as people are suffering in Japan
Your side, in many ways. This belief that you are blessed through prayer, and sinners suffer because they don't is sad. But it doesn't appear as if anyone gets that, other than the ones who already knew it. I wonder if there will come a time where everyone understands the meaning of the term natural disaster.
that's exactly why I have a problem with prayer - the attitude that those who pray get blessed & those that have bad things happen weren't 'right with god'
That's the wrong reason for someone to pray. Those who pray with wrong intent don't get 'blessed' just because they pray. They may attempt to fool God in a selfish prayer but I'm sure they look like glass to Him.
The prayer should be with the attempt to convince our Father God of our love for all individual's including the ones in need. And that we sincerely desire Him to help them because when others hurt, we hurt out of care and concern for them. Selfish prayers will certainly go unanswered as I don't think God wants to hear something from a greedy person trying to 'trick' God into blessing 'them' when someone actually needs help. It's actually disgusting to me that someone would pray for the intent to 'bless' themselves when someone they should be praying for desperately needs help and is probably in pain. I find greediness, especially in the case of thinking you can fool God, very sickening.
"The prayer should be with the attempt to convince our Father God of our love for all individual's.."
attempt to convince god? If your god is who you say he is, then shouldn't need any convincing. Or is prayer really convincing oneself?
I think your pessimism is a little overwhelming. You talk about wanting good, yet not a positive thing one has come out on one of your posts.
Your right. God knows the heart. But showing Him by actions and talking to Him shows greater concern. And why should God not expect us to show our concern to Him even though He knows it already. He knows everything, Maybe He would like to give you a reason to talk to Him.
Enjoy your posts. I can't take trying to explain things to someone who is so hateful towards God in the first place. Seek Him and He'll answer your questions. How do you think I know everything I know?
Go poke at someone else. You don't even make points, just leave open ended questions for everyone else to do your homework.
Eaglekiwi, Exactly. One should allow people to pray in peace who desire to pray. There is nothing foolish about praying. You hit the nail on the mark.
In the OP, I didn't ask whether I should pray or not (I no longer do), but rather whether people thought it was any use (particularly with natural disasters)
Having personally being victim of earthquake , I understand importance of prayers..but not done by others but those who themselves have suffered...It doesnot work as far as tangible results is concerned but it works for mental state of victims and belief me when nature strikes one needs lot of mental strength to overcome that...prayer helps in that....
did you pray to god? the universe? or was it giving yourself a pep talk?
spiritualspark3 has been banned.
He emailed me, and also asked me to post a reply to another person who was participating on this forum.
I do not think it appropriate to do so,so havent.
Takes time to grow in wisdom.
Thats all kids , pass the popcorn plse
Eaglekiwi about spiritualspark3
Interesting enough guy, I tried to calm him down because he was a bit of a loose cannon.
How long is he banned for?
How does someone get banned?
What did he do??
I an immune to insults, sparky is new and got involved in too many really heated insults with many members, I wonder myself what did he do to go over the line
I agree with ya there Castle, Im sure timeout will see him back soon fighting fit lol.
I dont know how long he is banned for.
Yes, I understand believers have a difficult time distinguishing reality from fantasy. Everyone knows that.
Is there a distinct line between fantacy and reality? I mean really ?
who gets to draw the line between fantacy and reality ??
fantacy may be but another verson of reality ?
Maybe reality is but one small portion of fantacy?
Maybe fantacy is the real deal and it is up to us to establish one fantacy or another as our reality ?
Interesting, in a way.
My son chatted to me about the same things ,bit like 'Mattrix?
What truly amazes me is the brain/mind and how its all wired!!
Then theres the psycology aspect.
God is Awesome!
I am constantly being amazed. ,, at the simplicity of the hard to understand.
I think that all of humanity is just too educated for it's own good. Sometimes I think that we have all tricked ourselves in our own understanding.
something like that anyway.
Relativity is a perfect example of reality isn't it?
Absolutely, in it's entirety, and special relativity as well. I also agree that the speed of light is a constant.
I know what you mean.
Brings to mind a parable Jesus taught:
Unless a person becomes like a child ,(childlike,not childish) they find it hard to accept,believe and not doubt.
Children believe what their father tells them 'faithfully' because he is DAD!
Thats what Jesus was saying..God is our Father and what father doesnt want good things for His kids
Bless you Jerami!
(Sorry Vector ,my post was sposed to be under Jerami -
Much apreciated .
And back atcha
I don't think that we were put here to know what the big picture looks like.
We Wuddunt suposed to know what the right hand was doing.
That would take all of the fun out of it. I think
God is good. Faith like a child kiwi.. Exactly.
Christ said God was our Father, and that's exactly what I call Him. Wrote a poem for Him the other day.
And I love my Father very much....
Off with his head. To the dungeons he must go.
Hey Vector ,your humilty reminds me so much of this song we used to sing, do ya know it?
I am loved , I am loved , I can risk loving you
Because the one who loves me most ,loves me the best
Aint it grand that even though He remembers we came from dust ,still He delights in us!
Sad news or good news GOOD NEWS BABY~
Greetings to all hubbers. I have read some of the mail about what is the use of prayer in natural disasters. Well, I suppose that not everyone is not the same, we do not all believe the same thing, add to that we are living in a pluralistic society. With all of this in mind, there will be differences of opinion. Actually I choose to believe in praying to an almighty God. I do not understand everything, I cannot explain whys and wherefores, but I do believe in God and that He hears and answers prayers. I know too that people will suffer, innocent people at that. Yes help must be given to the people of Japan, it is not enough to prayer but it must be followed by practical help. Thats all for now.
God bless you all
prayers, in some sense motivate people into action, for some people consider prayers a buzz kill this works, for others, they just
In this time of need
May the suffering
Find some sanity
To accept the things
They cannot change
Find the courage
To change the things
And have the
Wisdom to know the difference
Very long replies, I guess I would say that prayer calms us, gives a security in an unstable environment, and in a disaster, our only hope is that God will let us survive and live another day. It may not stop the storm, and might.
You never know how God will answer!
It seems to me that praying allows for the possibility of answer. I think that is sufficient reason when the other alternative (not praying) prohibits possibility. Prayer is not the substitute for action, it is the precursor. It is the voice of faith, but, even lacking faith, the possibility of answer, is reason enough. What does it say of us if we do not have a few moments in our day to ask comfort to rain upon Japan? Perhaps, we would rather be right in our opposition to God than for their suffering to be eased. I would prefer being proved wrong about God, after all, who have I hurt by praying and if He is there, He will not ask of me, why I did not cry out on their behalf. If crying out on their behalf offends the unbeliever, perhaps it is time to evaluate the reason behind the question!
I don't pray . But i know some that do . I think it puts them at ease and acts as a release for the pent up angst we all have in life . i say let those that want to pray do so without judgment
Yes, everybody should be free to pray to the Creator-God; leaving judgement to Him.
There is no law against prayer, yet at a Christian dinner table it must be about Jesus and his Father.
I make no one pray or make demands of who to pray to if they do. I only ask for respect of the name God. No GDing at the table yes. They can choose what they wish to do at the dinner table so long as it's not a spell with crow legs and frogs heads....
well, I've just put some cane toads in the freezer - might make a good witches brew
mmmm can I have a cup o that witches brew when its finished?
I love me some yummy witches brew! *licks lips*
If a Muslim Family came to your house for dinner and everyone prayed a Muslim prayer out loud. They prayed just before the meal and did not allow you and your Family to say a Christian prayer, would you dislike it?
You turning the bullet on me? You mean "not allow" me to pray and thank God for my food. Sorry, I can pray to my God with my eyes open or shut, people talking or not. And so can my family. My God hears all of my prayers and no I will not eat my food until I thank Him for it.
They can pray all they want, and I'll be respectful to them. But I'm not going to abandon my own prayers because someone carries a different opinion.
Not allow is a control thing, and I will surrender many things in this life including freedom.. All of my freedom except of my God. I will not deny Him, nor be denied praying to Him. I'd rather die. Yes, I know. Extreme for you. Death carries no weight when you know God is real.
I hope you don't condemn me for that.
(I would) second thoughts depends on who hes prayin too..
But its my house ,so generally speakin it my rules
If we put all of you in one room what would happen? lol
They would agree on one thing at dinner,
That their Religion is the one and only right way to God
Please, pass the hot piping sheep’s brains
Wait a minute.
Are you implying that Christians have sh for brains.
Oh so you dont follow any laws?
Its funny to me when I hear people make fun of Christians for following Gods laws ,yet they follow laws themselves ,but thats ok because its them thinking for themselves -yea right !
Your gods law says to kill your children for talking back. Which law that you are aware agrees with that?
Not my God.
And furthermore my children are alive and well ,so facts follow proof ,do they not?
Hey. Is it my imagination, or are the nay sayers in particularly rare form this weekend?
Yes, your god.
Yes, the facts do follow proof, you disobey your god, that is a fact.
Prove it is fact for me !
Silly statement to accuse me then.
Dont follow you ,but since you dont answer my questions ,guess it doesnt matter
Same with your god, you don't follow him either. Seems we have much in common. I wouldn't kill my children either in the name of your god.
Eaglekiwiposted 54 minutes ago in reply to this
Wait a minute.
Are you implying that Christians have sh for brains.
Oh so you dont follow any laws?
Yes, my law would be simplified to be honest and don't harm,
My law of love, would never imply sh for brains to any group, just over ego
It's Just that groups like Politician, Nerds, Atheist, Scientist have higher IQs than the Christian, groups, Bush is a fine example
Hey castle. What's up this weekend? All the nay sayers are being horribly mean. That was a wicked harsh post. And I mean wicked only in the most modern vernacular.
I just go with the flow of my conscious and subconscious thoughts and co creates with God.
All groups have upsides and downsides; I make the too comfortable- uncomfortable and uncomfortable- comfortable
Co create with God huh. I thought the devil made you do it.
Ok. I hope I never have reason to make you that creative.
You are creative and God made you in his imagine, did he not?
I'll be honest. I've had enough for one day of these ridiculous arguments. Nothing good is accomplished. No one wants to listen to each other. Everyone simply wants to shove their ideas out there and then argue. I cannot understand why everyone is so set in their minds. I swear I think half the people here have to be geriatric. This makes no sense.
Sheep brains implies over obedience and blind faith like sheep
But Atheists claim that Religion has/are controlling everyone and creating wars?
If there Intelligence were of any value ,how did they let this happen?
Greedy rich tooling the religious righteous for more control and they most often pray before battle in the name of God
The soldiers are not evil. The government leaders created the wars, and if someone attacks your country you don't let them kill all your children. I don't agree with war, but those men you are talking about "praying" before battle do it to protect you. I don't feel it's very honourable to demean them in such a way.
Can you imagine a USA President ever being elected without being Christian in your life time? Let’s say a President being an Atheist, Jew, Muslim or non religious
Irrelevant to my prior statement. Soldiers are not evil. They want to protect their children at home. They didn't create the war.
Politician makes war
What is always their core belief?
Attack Christianity another time. My point has nothing to do with their religion. I wanted to be clear I respect those that protect me and people of my country from those who would hurt me.
Soldiers are NOT evil. Stay focused.
When did praying actually achieve something?
If prayer actually worked then we would all be lottery winners.
Go ahead and pray if it makes you feel better but it would be better to donate some money and do something more constructive with your time.
Believing in a God is susperstitious mumbo jumbo and dates back to when we were cave men and didn't know any better.
I would have thought the human race would have reached a level of intelligence by now to realise this.
Actually, studies show that those who pray donate, on average, 4 times more to charity than those who don't. Sounds to me like they are multi tasking pretty well.
Yep to date God has best interest rates 100% plus returns,with on going benefits lol
Trollin trollin trollin.
Liars for Jesus.
I see you trolled your way to my pitiful thoughts on the subject. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to the truth? I'm always looking.
Well, that's an opinion. You know what they say about those here in the states.
Simply because I am not interested in internalizing a jaded and unrealistic view of the world does not mean I don't seek truth. It simply means I am not willing to follow a path I see as not in harmony. I do concede that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
You can continue to harass me, which is well within your rights. Or go away. Your right too. Or (and this would be my choice) actually share your thoughts in a nonconfrontational manner.
I bow to whatever your decision is on this matter.
Dear me. I am not harassing you. Sorry - is it against the law to express an opinion in your country? I did not realize.
I do find you rather funny and am immune to your trolling. I would be interested in what you get out of it though. Is there some pleasure to be derived from doing what you do? But I never really understood peopel who derive pleasure from causing conflicts. I guess I never really understood the Christian mindset so I just do not get the idea of pleasure from conflict. Perhaps you could explain it to me?
I'm very confused by your reply. I thought I made it clear that it was within your rights to do whatever you pleased.
Hmmm, I do relish reading the opinions of others. And I have had a few people recommend interesting reading. There have been a few laughs, and I have learned a few things. So, all in all, I can honestly say this has been a good experience for me. It sounds (from your comments) that my presence has produced a negative effect on you. If this is the case I apologize.
I believe it was the dalai lama who suggested that if you can do something about a problem, there is nothing to worry about. If you can't do something about it there is nothing to worry about. This problem we have would fit into that category for me.
Sorry - I seem to have upset you again. Is that why you did not answer my questions? Nothing negative - as I said - I find you funny. I do not have a problem - I am genuinely interested in the pleasure you seem to derive from the way you act.
But I understand if you don't want to answer. A lot of religious people like yourself do seem rather cut off from themselves. No worries.
Mark, I thought I did answer your question. Was it not the one you wanted? It might help if you posted what I should say. I can cut and paste it into my reply. Would that suffice? I do so want to make you happy. For once.
No - you did not answer my question. But - that is OK - I understand.
Ok. I'll assume I'm dense here. What exactly did I miss..just ask the question again. As simply and concisely as possible so that I can follow it. (I am dense, you know)
I'll do my best to answer it.
But if I answer a question you have to promise to answer one too.
Trollin trollin trollin.
Little wonder your religion causes so many conflicts.
Mark you did not answer just _ curios comment to.....
Actually, studies show that those who pray donate, on average, 4 times more to charity than those who don't. Sounds to me like they are multi tasking pretty well.
IReligious people are 25% more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). Religion donating their time and money at the higher rates typical of all religious believers, so the reason why religious people give is more to do with their own politics in which politics has a lot to do with getting your own way. About 78 percent of Americans donated some money to at least one church.
The group in the United States that donate the highest percentages of their income are the poor (those making less than $20,000 per year.) Religious sector and religious organizations. .... of their donations go to churches and other religious purposes. ... Most of their donations are given to churches and related interest to their religion, rather than to other out side of religious purposes.
Yes, I know. It occurred to me after I posted that that religion is considered a charitable contribution. I don't consider that a charity. It would be interesting to see the statistics if that was taken out of the mix.
Charity Donations are Tax Deductible
Donations of cash and property to qualified non-profits are tax deductible. To be deductible, taxpayers must keep records of their contributions. In the religious case it is tax free and hidden often. The one and only god religious politic dose mix well with most other core belief religions and non religious thoughts
Politics in which politics has a lot to do with getting your own way. , rather than for other out side purposes.
Well, in fairness, it has been my observation that people seek power for personal gain; rarely for the common good. Religious or otherwise.
The best answer to sum up it all up (IMO) is with one answer :
The Christian lives by faith , hope in things 'unseen'.Note it doesnt say 'all things' because clearly we often see change in a person ,or circumstances as a result of prayer combined with other things. Never the less if do some research on the testimonies of certain individuals ,you would conclude at the very least ,an intervention of a divine being
Prayer is not treating God like a Santa Claus or good fairy ,therefore the 'gimme gimme' notion of requesting $$ to satisfy the 'me' syndrome is not going to happen.
What is a troll?
A Hub piece of jargon ,cuz I thought they lived under a bridge
Natural disasters are a respite for the human beings from the Creator-God to return to the path of purpose of life created by Him; which man has forgotten to pursue in the course of the man's routine material life. So prayer helps man to ask forgiveness from the Creator-God; and man pledges again to tread on the peaceful and truthful path set for man by the Creator-God; it is a warning and a respite: And if Allah were to punish men for their wrongdoing. He would not leave therein a living creature, but He gives them respite till an appointed term, and when their term is come, they cannot remain behind a single hour, nor can they go ahead of it. (16:62) To undestand its philosophy one many like to access:
If we leave out certain labels it would be easy to see that men and womens) hearts can be quite wicked.
God made me do it. The devil made me do it.
And if Allah were to punish men for their wrongdoing. He would not leave therein a living creature, but He gives them respite till an appointed term, and when their term is come, they cannot remain behind a single hour, nor can they go ahead of it. (16:62) To undestand its philosophy one many like to access:
The law of attraction... you are sending positive energy to the people who are in need of help. There is nothing wrong with it. Prayer is free and when everyone's energy is concentrated over a particular territory, or over a specific group of people, miracles happen. It gives those in need the strength to put their lives back together.
As per the original question, what use is prayer in natural disaster? I think, Prayer in natural disasters can be a means of closeness to God.
But for some reasons Atheists feel this great need to try and belittle me...
belittling you or challenging your belief system? I have done the latter; if you feel belittled, you're getting your emotions in the way & taking it personally
A person can only feel belittled or insulted if you allow it. You own opinion about yourself is the most important opinion in the world.
Insult me and give it your best shot.
To give my own opinion on this:
Prayer does not have any use in natural disasters. Asking a being whose existence is uncertain for help isn't even equivalent to sending one penny to help out.
If these people truly wanted to help, then they would send money or aid.
Obviously, if they're poor and unable to send anything, then they can probably get away with not doing so.
Religious people do both the things; they pray for the affectees and also send money to help them:
Japan Earthquake and Tsunami - 12K Deaths
Humanity First Continues to Help in Dangerous Conditions
On March 11 Tsunami spawned by one of the largest earthquakes ever recorded slammed Japan’s eastern coast Friday, sweeping away people, cars and homes while widespread fires burned out of control.
The death toll continues to rise, hospitals are overwhelmed with patients are running out of supplies, and millions of people have been without food, water or shelter for days. Around 63,255 buildings have either been destroyed or damaged, and more 400,000 people are in emergency shelters. There are now 4 nuclear reactors which are in critical condition and it is feared that the radioactivity is increasing around Fukushima area however the rescue teams are still arriving in the area and the search operation is still going on.
March 12th Humanity First Disaster Response Team is doing the relief work in Fukushima city which is very near to the Fukushima atomic power plant - 1. Humanity First team has initiated a soup kitchen to serve cooked food and water to the displaced people.
March 15th Humanity First continues to assist the victims of Tsunami. The team has moved its relief camp to Sendai, the city that was completely washed away after the Tsunami. The Humanity First team was one of the first to reach this badly affected area.
March 16th HF is managing the relief camp at Junior high School in Miyagi prefecture, Sendai
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I REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE MEANING OF PRAYER.
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