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A Message for Non-Believers: Stop being so Intolerant

  1. 59
    Mick Menousposted 5 years ago

    Personally, I really don't see what gives non-believers the right to criticize and verbally hurt innocent religions who want to do nothing but help spread peace, love, and do charity work for the poor. After much personal researching I've done, I've determined these 3 false excuses that they use so they can justify themselves as always being right about religions:

    Religions are all quote: "made up stories like superstitious fairy tales."
    Religious people want to force others to join their religion because they want to, quote: �rule the world.�
    Religions were and are the source of ALL wars and other personal problems in the world.

    Now, these 3 false excuses, of course, are NOT true. As far as the 1st excuse on the list is concerned, non-believers would agree that there's no physical proof that a God exists, meaning that all religions are false. But nor is there any physical proof that says religions are false. Now, I'm not saying that to force anyone to join a religion or to believe in a Higher Power, I'm just saying it for the record.

    As far as the 2nd excuse from the list is concerned, as far as all religions wanting to rule the world goes, this is also 100% NOT true. Again, there is no physical or mental proof that top religious leaders personally want to take over the world. For example, Pope Benedict XVI doesn�t travel the globe to force other people from other countries to join Christianity; he travels so he can preach peace, love, charity, and justice for all, which is what the Bible, the Torah, and the Qur�an also preach.

    And as far as the 3rd excuse from the list is concerned, I believe that it is an absolute abomination to lay the blame for the majority of wars, racism, and perversion in the history of humankind on religions. For example, religions did not start The American Civil War, World War I, World War II, or the Cold War. Those wars were all started by political tensions. Now I do know for a fact that it was Christianity that did start The Crusades, Witch Hunting, and The Inquisition which resulted in the deaths of so many people, but that was a VERY LONG time ago. It was a totally different generation at the time too. Bottom line: Christians are NOT what they used to be long ago. They have changed and matured. Even the Vatican now knows that what their Christian ancestors did in the past was wrong and even they now condemn such actions. Yet for some reason, non-believers, especially those non-believers in the United States, refuse to let go of Christianity�s former dark past and love to hold a grudge against Christians. They love to live in the past. And their excuse for that is, quote: �Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.� While this is indeed logical and true, it does not mean that they should use it to verbally attack innocent Christians about their past mistakes. That's irrational.

    So, my main point is that any non-believer who has nothing nice to say about religions, don't say anything at all. It's time to stop. Let's show some tolerance. Is that so much to ask?

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      But, that isn't exactly the truth, is it? Religions need to perpetuate their dogmas. For example, one such scheme is the indoctrination of children while the other is evangelism. If these two schemes were not part of a religionists agenda and all they did was to spread peace, love and do charity work, there wouldn't be any problems.

      As for your title, intolerance is one of the fundamental principles of most religions, they are intolerant to others beliefs or those who don't share the same beliefs, they are intolerant towards other groups such as homosexuals, they are intolerant to the theories and discoveries of science, the list goes on and on...

      Perhaps, this alone should give you some inkling as to why religions are criticized.



      That is a logical fallacy. The exact same thing can be said about leprechauns and unicorns.

      If you want hard evidence, turn to the creationism vs. evolution and you will see the evidence that shows that part of religions are false, based on your requirements.



      Perhaps then, just 99.99% true. If it weren't true, religions would not evangelize and attempt conversions.

      And, since there are so many sects within the various religions, that isn't likely to happen anytime soon unless one particular sect managed to wipe us all out.



      Yet, we can lay blame to those religions that started a number of wars in the name of their gods. Although you are correct in that there are other reasons for wars to start, they can all be recognized, acknowledged and put to rest, never to rear their ugly heads again.



      So, the fact that we now have laws that don't allow such atrocities to occur doesn't mean they wouldn't occur if the laws weren't there.

      But, lo and behold, they do in fact still occur. The Rwandan genocide is a most recent atrocity committed in the name of religion. Let's not forget the conflict between the Muslims and the Jews currently afoot in the ME.



      No, they have not matured. In fact, they have been forced to change in light of our world. Most certainly, any changes are not the result of internal acknowledgments.



      So, you have no problem is someone wanted to join the Nazi party, for example?



      When religions stop peddling intolerance, the criticisms will most likely stop, too. smile

      1. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You mean when you make them like you?

        smile

    2. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm still trying to figure out what it is you are talking about?

      what is this "thing" you call 'god" that we have a choice to disbelieve or believe in?

      Until you can define "it" in other than just an opinion which is based upon an abstract concept humans have imagined, how can anyone who "THINKS," consider your comment:  "A Message for Non-Believers: Stop being so Intolerant."  to be credible and respond to it with well reasoned logic?

      Hmmmm?

      Qwark

      1. qwark profile image61
        qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Ya'll just keep right on responding when, really, there's nuthin' to consider here 'cept foolishness!
        S'matter with you guys?
        Qwark

        1. vector7 profile image59
          vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Foolishness of which you seem very dedicated to. So why are you here amongst fools again?

          smile

          1. qwark profile image61
            qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Vec:
            Oh I am dedicated to an attempt to bring the enlightenment that knowledge can provide, to the intellectually, lesser evolved of we primitive human creatures who waste their precious lives and time wallowing in the specious abstract concepts of imagined god/s.
            I know, I know it's impossible, but hell, a caring man's gotta try!
            Thanks for asking Vec...smile
            Qwark

      2. Joy56 profile image60
        Joy56posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It is a higher power me thinks

        1. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hello Joy:
          Thanks for another "opinion."  smile:
          Qwark

          1. Joy56 profile image60
            Joy56posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            the pleasure is all mine, the answers are so easy when you know how, ha ha ,  this thread is mad...........

    3. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's not the only thing believers do. There actions are selfish based.
      Regardless, what you say, what is actually contested and detested is that selfish based actions and usual conflict that arise from most of their individual actions.
      I wouldn't go that far, but most religious fail to learn or understand the truth about what they have actually been told. It happens because they are too selfish.
      Actually, it's the untruthfulness of their actions, which they do not see. Joining their religion? It's more that religious claim that their god is ruler over everyone, which is BS.
      About 90%.
      Actually there isn't anything false about what I've said.
      Actually, only ignorant people with regards to knowledge available would make that assumption. There is plenty of evidence to support the fallibility of religion.
      And, you would be wrong.
      Actually the POPE preaches "guilt" and "damnation" for lack of belief.
      Why do you think the conflict arises? Because, believers fail to recognize their place in this world. Nothing new.
      Then, the same could be said for believers- keep your mouth shut and the conflict disappears.

    4. 67
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It makes sense; the atheists should think.

    5. 67
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think the atheist would agree on this point.

    6. 67
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think the present day Christians would agree to it.

    7. 67
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think everbody will agree on this point.

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Not true Paar, and you would be advise to not speak for other people who are not you. wink

      2. 67
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think what you have stated in the above passage is rational; the present day Christian is not responsible for the wrongs done by their ancestors. Humans being do improve and if they improve that should be appreciated.

      3. 67
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this



        I think the Atheists should listen to this sane piece of advice.

        1. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And, religious folk should know that their actions create conflict, yet fail to recognize the truth of the matter. You would be no different. wink

          1. 67
            paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            What is the truth of the matter? Please

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The conflict arises from the words believers use and how they use them. wink

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I agree some of the jargon is a little irritating,however that trait is not limited to Christians-

                Gosh I have this neighbour whose only conversation is  full of 'cliches'

                He is the cliche king!! seriously

                One day Im gonna catch him out ,lol

                1. Cagsil profile image83
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You're right EK, it's not restricted to just Christians. It happens to come from all religious people. wink

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Generalisations dont cut it with me, as dramatic as they may sound.

                    1. Cagsil profile image83
                      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      The generalization is the only way to explain it. There are plenty of religious people who know and understand their place in the world. Therefore, they've no need to speak about what they believe with regards to their religion. But, those who are the one who cause the conflict. wink

              2. 67
                paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Wel I don't get it; please elaborate.

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The believer says I believe. Therefore there is conflict. No more reason than that, on most levels.

                  1. 67
                    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Suppose a Scientist is going to do an experiment; of course he has not performed all the scientific experiments himself; he takes the data essential from others to perform the new experiment .

                    So he believes the data given to him by others; he has to trust others; otherswise he cannot live a life.

                    1. 0
                      Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      He doesn't blindly trust the data given by others.  The data is peer reviewed and tested in everyday current circumstances. It is not 2000 year old myths.

                    2. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Not sure I get your point.

                      I trust in me, and my conclusions only. We all get the same data. No one else can process it for you.

                2. Cagsil profile image83
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Believers use words they themselves fail to understand, but then utter those words in world based on reality, which creates the conflict, for which, proves they don't understand. At the same time, fail to see that they don't understand, but claim to. Do you understand? Or do I need to elaborate more? hmm

                  1. vector7 profile image59
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Please state any words I used I don't understand. I will gladly explain them to clear the confusion.

                    You've said nothing more than. "Believers don't understand."

                    Please do. Elaborate.

                    smile

      4. Mikeydoes profile image79
        Mikeydoesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Everyone wants to spread peace and love, what does that have to do with religion.

        I hope you love your religion and it keeps you happy, but you don't need to spread it to other people, let them do what they want. They are well aware, if they want to join, they will find you.. The way I see it.

        1. 60
          hvickposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          As far as people who DON'T BELIEVE, they probably aren't going to go searching for the answers. They are just going to go about their lives, and when they are getting ready to die, they will probably wish they had searched for the true answers needed. Saying these non-believers will search, is like saying someone addicted to CRACK is going to ask for help. Most likely, they won't, and they will end up dead or homeless. So, here's the deal...GOD, who created you and everyone else in this self-consumed world, sends those out to find lost people. We don't have to be pushy, I know I'm not. It took me quite a while to get where I'm at in my relationship with God, and I would never go back. We just need to plant that little seed that maybe they won't even think about for years to come.

          I'm not all about RELIGION, that is man made. Religion is all about how certain men perceived the Bible, and yes, they try to teach people the way THEY see it. I agree, a lot of religious people are hypocrytes, but the truth of the matter is, we are all sinners, we all make mistakes. God IS all about love and peace, he doesn't want fighting, this is all mans way of seeing things. God does not hate you if you are a different color or homosexual. He loves us all. All that bull, pardon my language, IS man made.

          I hope and pray all people will find God and know that ALL people will let you down at some point, but HE will never. When I say that, I don't mean, If you've ever prayed and not gotten what YOU want, then you stop believing. HE made us, he knows what is best for us always. I can look back on everything, bad and good, and I can now see why certain things had to happen. I will never be the same, because I know and feel his love for me, and I only want all people to feel THIS loved.

          You will NEVER feel anything better than the love of God.

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Untrue. And, it's unkind to claim that people who are not you, will not go looking for answers.

            I know, I'm a perfect example who was religious at one point in my life, until I searched and researched answers. What do you know, religion is a hoax to come to find out. Therefore, conclusion- "god" is the hoax played on people and has been in place for thousands of years. wink

            1. 67
              paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I think one drew an incorrect conclusion about the Creator-God, one could see from the above narration; not a rational conclusion.

              Instead of searching and researching for a truthful religion; in disgust one chose to deny the Creator-God.

              That was a faulty conclusion for sure.

              1. Cagsil profile image83
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Irrationality is your friend Paar, not mine. wink

              2. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You find the god myth rational????

                1. 67
                  paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The Creator-God is a reality; for sure. Atheism is a myth.

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Not believing that your god from your personal religious beliefs has the entire truth is a myth?

                    You are only one god away from being an atheist unless you believe in everyone else's god.
                    I do not recall seeing you use logic once out of all your posts.
                    Not believing in any myth is NOT a religion or even a belief system, it is simply not being gullible or indoctrinated in my view. smile

          2. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, I certainly am feeling the love of your god in your post.

            Funny though, believers don't need to search for answers as they have one single book on which to refer that provides them all the answers they will ever need, while the rest of us work tirelessly day after day, year after year searching for answers to the universe and the world around us, experimenting and discovering new ones every day.  smile

      5. Titen-Sxull profile image94
        Titen-Sxullposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, curse those non-believers for their intolerance, the way they oppress gays by not affording them equal rights (and in some countries want gays executed). Not to mention teaching teens that sex before marriage will land them in Hell and that birth control is wrong. And nothing beats convincing little kids that they were born dead in sin and deserving of eternal punishment.

        Oh wait no, those are things believers do.

      6. waynet profile image46
        waynetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Innocent religions lol! big_smilebig_smilebig_smile

        1. 67
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Why do you think that religion are not innocent?
          Do you think that the atheists are innocent? Why?

          1. waynet profile image46
            waynetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Religions are evil because they cause half the wars if not all in the world so innocent doesn't even come into it!

            1. 0
              Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Have you borrowed Mr. Knowles' broken record or what?
              Did it ever occur to you that rebellion and blasphemy has caused wars?

              1. Cagsil profile image83
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Rebellion has caused wars I'll agree. But, as for blasphemy? It's in your head. No god exists, except the ones choose to believe one does. wink

              2. waynet profile image46
                waynetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Rebellion and blasphemy!! lol!!! But it's still religions isn't it?! So to follow the leader we have to not rebel and do as the lord gods state and follow the word of god to the letter and have no real life of our own??!

                1. 0
                  Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  "the word of God to the letter"?

                  No.  Because that is humanly impossible.  The Bible even explains all that, and why it was necessary for Jesus to be cruicified.

                  "no real life of our own"?
                  Surely you jest, or else do not understand.  We would have no life at all if God weren't gracious....

                  1. Cagsil profile image83
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It wasn't necessary. He was a threat to the power in place already. Didn't you read your book?
                    Untrue, and you cannot prove otherwise, unless you use your good book as a reference, which is circular reasoning.

              3. frogdropping profile image84
                frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Rebellion and blasphemy against what?

            2. 67
              paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If religions have caused half of the wars in the world; the other half has been caused by the atheists or may be their share is more?

              Do you agree?

              1. waynet profile image46
                waynetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                If the atheists don't believe in religion then they would not want any part of any religious wars and they wouldn't be concerned as much, so what has any atheists got do do with religion? I do not know!

                We all know it's the religious people who cause war for anyone who believes in another god! if those who don't believe in any god then it's nothing to do with us!

                Jesus was a black man anyway with an afro and he wore a dress it says this in the bible!

      7. 0
        Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        mick, are you paar?

      8. Onusonus profile image87
        Onusonusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "If they leave us alone we shall convert the world. Persecute us, and we shall do it sooner."- Brigham Young

      9. Midianite profile image61
        Midianiteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        A message for Believers: Stop being so ignorant.


        - Seriously, if you are going to post such stupid questions, you are going to get a buttload of answers you don't like.

    8. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago

      Actually, we don't.

      On the other hand, we are incessantly 'witnessed to' and spoken about in derogatory manner by those that consider themselves holier than thou.

      It is simple self defense against a movement  that for the past 40 years has been growing more and more voracious in its intolerance towards anyone who dares to say that they don't believe.

      You're all just getting back a bit of what we have suffered in silence until recently.

      1. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Suffer? Your in a religious thread. Please explain why your here if it brings you such discomfort?

        I think that is contradictory, as no one brought you here. Yet you feel so motivated to tell us about your stereotypical ideas of Christians.

        I am not better than you, and certainly don't belong to many of the descriptions of which you have posted. It doesn't do any good to degrade me because of what other people have done.

        smile

        1. 0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          @vector. I don't look at what section it's in when I respond to something. I just respond from the main forum page.  The message is for non-believers. You truly don't think we come to the religious section, do you????

          It's on the main forum page where everything is melded together!

          Once more, 'Your' in a religious thread. The correct word is "You're in a religious thread'

          Your means "belonging to you"

          You're is short for 'You are'.

          You're confusing the two.

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks for the grammar lesson. I'm well aware of the two.

            I haven't confused anything.

            I do apologise for saying you were in a religious thread. I should have checked before posting.

            My main concern was you saying "ALL" Christians consider themselves "holier than thou." This is NOT true. I don't see myself as such and don't wish to be classified that way either. I am just like every other person on this planet. Not better.

            smile

            1. Randy Godwin profile image94
              Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Worry about your own perceived soul.  What makes you think YOU should be allowed to interfere in the beliefs, of lack thereof, of others?  smile  Bible belt?  North Carolina?

            2. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              At least you admit your irrational belief system does not make you a better person. Nor does it encourage you in any way shape or form to be a better person. I agree.

              This is why your religion is of completely no value. In fact - quite the opposite.  sad

        2. Woman Of Courage profile image61
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          vector, I fully agree with you.

    9. iantoPF profile image86
      iantoPFposted 5 years ago

      I want to believe that you are willing to engage in a reasonable debate, your well thought out post would seem to indicate that so;
      the problem with Christians is that they cannot escape the great injunction of Christ.they must "Go forth and make disciples" this is what makes ecumenical efforts so difficult. Any other faith that deals with Christians finds itself on the receiving end of a point of view that says Christ is the only way to heaven. a christian cannot escape that. The result is that any Christian with a feeling for his fellow human will do what he can to influence them into the Christian path.
      Those who are not Christian and who do not wish their lives to be governed by Hebrew mythology find themselves resenting this approach and reacting to the views of "Innocent religionists"

    10. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago

      Not to be too blunt about it, but I will stop challenging religion when it's proponents stop telling me that THEIR god runs MY life. smile

      1. 0
        Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        smile

      2. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And the odd thing there is, you come into a religious forum to declare this. Sounds to me as if you made an effort to hunt them down to do it. smile

        1. 0
          Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          didn't you know Earnest finds religion fascinating?

        2. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There is nothing odd about it.

          I will say my piece, and someones opinion as to my entitlement to do so doesn't interest me. smile

          What is sounds like to you is apparently dependent on your belief in an invisible friend. lol

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No, I don't have an invisible friend, that I am aware of. I simply believe a non belief in God would logically lead one to a disinterest in anything concerningthe topic. A hatred of the church would lead one to feel the need to attack it.

            A disbelief in anything spiritual would also tend to guide one' s search for a topic of discussion in a different direction. A distaste for those who are inclined to search would lead one here.

            All I'm saying is the dialogue is good, but it would be nice if the nay sayers would admit their purpose so    that the person whose post they are replying to will know when dialogue is intended and it isn't simply an emotional knee jerk reaction.

            There are times I suspect the  believer is little more than a punching bag for someone who won't stand up for themself in the real world.

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Are you saying I wont stand up for myself in the real world?
              smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No. you seem pretty vocal. But you discuss issues. There are a few of the prominent nay sayers who don't. It is illogical to badger with no point in sight. it leaves one to wonder if there are not deeper unstated issues.

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I think it would be better to leave the psych analysis of me to me curious, after all, I am the one who understands psychology.
                  My "agenda" is as simple as I don't like fairytales being sold as fact.
                  I also fight bulldust wherever I see it. If you read my hubs on cars you would see my tolerance of misleading information is pretty low.
                  It is anti educational and damaging to peoples sanity.

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Hmmm. I believe the statement I made concerning you was that you are pretty vocal, but I can see by your response that you choose to read more into a simple statement than was intended. This is part of my point. The emotions that have led to non belief are as much a part of the issue as the emotions involved in belief.

                    Stating that reason alone has led one down either course is not a fair statement, so should not be used in an attempt to denigrate an adversary in this discussion.

                    1. earnestshub profile image88
                      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Yet you see your statement that I responded to as fair? smile

            2. 0
              Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I no longer believe in god(s), but I still find religion interesting - or rather, I'm curious at how people come to believe what they do.

              I spent half my life as a christian, and I like to discuss/debate with others to try and figure out my world.  I ask the hard questions, wondering if anyone can come up with an answer that with substance.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                And you do it well. Discussion is good. Opposing views are fresh air. It is simply that a few are very obviously not interested in dialogue. It is badgering. Which is within their rights, but odd.

                1. 0
                  Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  the ones that are there just to insult, I don't like either. 

                  I do get personal attacks, even when I haven't made any eg on the Why Pray thread.  People can't divorce their emotions from debating why they believe. 

                  If you can handle the challenge and still find good reasons to believe, good for you.  You seem to be one of the few more open-minded christians here

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm open minded simply because it would be illogical to be otherwise. If one's belief cannot stand the light of day there is a problem.

                    1. 0
                      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      it would be nice if more believers had that outlook

                    2. 0
                      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I'll take my last comment back.  You oscillate btwn seeming open-minded & emotive-reactive

      3. aguasilver profile image88
        aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So we can expect you to expire still in rebellion! smile

    11. knolyourself profile image60
      knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

      "Well the missionary man
      He's got God on his side.
      He's got the saints and apostles
      Backin' up from behind.
      Black eyed looks from those Bible
      books.
      He's a man with a mission
      Got a serious mind.
      There was a woman in the jungle
      And a monkey on a tree.
      The missionary man he was followin'
      me.
      He said "stop what you're doing."
      "Get down upon your knees."
      "I've got a message for you that you
      better believe.""

    12. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago

      Good points, which will obviously be overlooked or ignored. Some people simply seek strife. It seems odd, since I would think a place such as this would be the perfect environment to discuss the differences of perception on this matter.

      1. Beelzedad profile image59
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Not at all, the contradictions posed by the author of the OP were resolved. Not by him, of course. smile

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          But Beelzedad, you have to admit the conversations get harsh some times. And that isn't caused by one side only.

          1. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            roll

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I have no idea what that face means. Have fun. It is all you are accomplishing.

              1. vector7 profile image59
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It means he was speechless.

                smile

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey vector. That would be impossible. I've known plenty of times where beelzedad had nothing of value to say, but he was steadily posting. I don't know that he does speechless.  smile

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    C'mon JC give beezle a break!
                    He has posted a lot of good stuff here and is funny as hell! smile

                    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      This has devolved into a typical troll. Probably is TK sensei in fact. Not sure what they get out of doing this - but most certainly is very Christian to get your jollies antagonizing people into attacking you.

                      One of my main issues with their religion in fact. The passive-aggressive martyr complex. Oh well - it had me fooled for a while, because it does a very good impression of actually wanting to know something - then when it completely ignores any responses and attacks you in this passive aggressive way, you understand where it derives its pleasure. Now I simply ignore it most of the time. It is the only way to get rid of them.

                  2. Beelzedad profile image59
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Of course you consider nothing I have to say is of value as very little of it supports your belief system and only serves to point out just how utterly irrational, illogical and violent it is. The religiously indoctrinated rarely if ever find value in reality. smile

                    1. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Hey beelzedad. I'm basically out of here, but when I saw the email I figured I'd at least respond to your post here. That was a joke. You've had a lot of good things to say. I've got my pebble, christianity can go to the hell it created. And I don't care what you say, there's something more. smile

    13. skyfire profile image72
      skyfireposted 5 years ago

      Non-believers are much more tolerant but they're allergic to bullcrap like -brother micah, bible home schooling, creationism and 6k year old earth and similar other stuff from deluded people.

    14. 0
      ryankettposted 5 years ago

      Why does it feel like this thread has been posted a thousand times already?

      And why doesn't Hubpages have a yawn emoticon?

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes. Exactly. I've looked for that emoticon a hundred times.

      2. 0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Because he only joined two weeks ago, and it doesn't occur to him that the same 'message', 'discussion' 'argument' has been raging way before he got here...

        1. 0
          jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hello Sophia,
          Thank you, for suggestion, I am more careful about my capitals and punctuations(punctuations are a little problematic, though!). I re-wrote all my hubs based on your suggestion
          Thanks..

      3. frogdropping profile image84
        frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That needs to go in the 'suggest a feature' sub-forum, or whatever it's called lol

        1. canadawest99 profile image61
          canadawest99posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "I came home drunk the other night and wrote down some random thoughts about people and the universe.  I showed them to my sober friend the next day and they didn't make much sense to him but I ignored him and just kept showing more and more people until I found some that thought it was ok"

          Thats equivalent to the proof of religion.  Random thoughts and beliefs of a iron age culture written down hundred years after they happened.    Does this sound rational?

          If there really is a creator speaking to us as plainly as he did 2,000 years ago, why did he stop?   There are billions listening for him.

        2. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What ever happened to the laughing out loud emoticon? It only shows as lol now.

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol

            Sorry. Just checking. 

            smile

      4. DIYweddingplanner profile image92
        DIYweddingplannerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Amen! (sic)  This is an argument that has been going on for thousand of years and will continue to rage on.  Unfortunately, no one will be proven right or wrong until the day this old earth stops spinning, so both sides are wasting their breath.

    15. Bill Manning profile image71
      Bill Manningposted 5 years ago

      Most non-believers, just like most who do believe, don't say a word nor argue at all.

      As always it's only a few from both sides that get loud and make it seem like "they" are hostile, pushy, narrow minded, whatever.

      Most people have a life they are busy living and don't get into arguments about it. Believe whatever you want, more power to you. Your right,,, whatever you believe,,, gotta go now. smile

    16. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago

      I guess it has become obvious to you by now that your polite request has fallen on deaf and dumb ears. Sometimes childishness trumps all for those emotionally opposed to the idea of belief.

    17. 0
      jomineposted 5 years ago

      Yes, yes! These non-believers are very intolerant. These are the very people who killed Giordano Bruno and flown planes into buildings and put bombs in crowded places.
      These non believers and there arrogance! How dare they show us our god is imaginary, just a concept? How dare they show us we are immature and childish in our beliefs?
      And the popes and priests, how good they are in spreading peace by molesting children or protecting/justifying those who does!
      No religious leaders ever wanted to take over the world. See Pope Alexander VI only wanted to help his son Cesare Borgia to carve a little territory for him and nothing else!
      And how all our stories are true! Why can't there be flying horses? Why can't god die to save us, The Great Humans? You silly non-believers, you will never understand how important we are!
      lol lol lol

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        lol lol Very good. lol

      2. 0
        BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Excellent big_smile

      3. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You aren't stereotyping are you? I hope not.

        That would be wrong. And there are plenty of atheist's who claim the title of ego-maniac world take-over. Relevant stuff would be useful.

        There are bad apples in every bunch. Stereotyping doesn't make you look smart. Or the little stereotype encouraging ones either..

        smile

    18. mcbigmoji profile image59
      mcbigmojiposted 5 years ago

      I would like to ask, when do non believers knock on your front door and try to sell those people that have faith a book called "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins?

      I don't believe, i'm quite happy to say that, neither do i sit on the fence.
      If its a question of faith and it makes people feel better and cope with their lives then good for them, I don't need it. Neither do i need my pleasant afternoon disturbed by people hawking "The Good News Bible" and telling me how to live my life.

      I am quite happy to live my life within the law and i have no problems with any follower of religion until they tell me i should believe.

      Why can't we all just get along?

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Oh I had Richard Dawkins followers knock on my door-3 Uni students

        Atheism is alive and well in many Universities.via so called learned Professors.

        The question in my mind is this: Why are they not happy and at peace with their world? Why do they become arrogant with their arguements, demeaning others .

        Shows more of an insecurity if you ask me.

        They have made a choice to follow their ideas,so called theologies etc ,but want to change mine as well!!

        1. 0
          jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "Why are they not happy and at peace with their world? Why do they become arrogant with their arguements, demeaning others ."
          Got any idea what your talking about?

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            My post was under the last one.

            Guess you would have to read them both, to get it.

        2. 0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The answer to that is that Richard Dawkins believes that religion is destroying the modern world and putting the world into a great deal of danger. If you read his book, he shows you how he came to that conclusion.

          He has, therefore, proposed militant atheism. This is the opposite coin to 'witnessing for Christ'.

          Instead of people who are going through hard times being reached by those who believe that they have to fulfill the great injunction of bringing others to Christ, some atheists see sense in what Dawkins said, and are now going out to explain to others what atheism is. That's because so many have no idea what it is.

          Basically, if you think about it, most people become religious is several ways.

          a) they are brainwashed since childhood.
          b) they go through a really hard time and want to make sense of the world.
          c) they did terrible things and need forgiveness

          If the first were eliminated, most people would not be religious. If people were taught how to manage their lives better and were able to do so, there would be less needing an explanation for what has happened. And if they came to terms with the fact that we were mortal, they might live what lives they have better. And if they knew they weren't going to need forgiveness from God, maybe they would make reparation to the people they harmed.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            When people stop thinking they are wiser than their fellow man, they might realize it's best to take care of your own life, and leave other people's business to themselves.

            This sadly, will probably never happen since we all think we are smarter than everyone else.

            As is so evident in my post. Sorry. Did not mean to butt into your life. Please continue. smile

            1. 0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Don't worry. . And I agree!

          2. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "Basically, if you think about it, most people become religious is several ways.

            a) they are brainwashed since childhood.
            b) they go through a really hard time and want to make sense of the world.
            c) they did terrible things and need forgiveness"

            I'm sorry. I find that very wrong to make such assumptions. There isn't a single good thing in your list. Which proves the opinion to be biased.

            And if you resort back to b)... most people (unfortunately) rebel against God when things go wrong. So that assumption is wrong. At the least, all we can say is that it's irrelevant completely because people go both ways on that statement.

            smile

            1. 0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              @ vector 7. I was a member of the born again movement for a decade. I heard thousands of people witness and give their testimonies during that time. I know the religion inside out and upside down. Every single body who witnessed spoke about trials in their live and how they had 'come to the Lord'.

              No, I'm not wrong.

              The human brain is socialized through the things that it hears from babyhood through childhood and it believes things that it hears consistently over and over again. That's why people who grow up with different cultures believe different things.

              The process is called 'soft brainwashing' and it's why advertising works.

              things go wrong all the time in my life. I don't turn against God because I don't think there is a God. smile

              1. vector7 profile image59
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes. You heard thousands of people witness. I wonder what Church all the people that went the other direction from the trials they suffered witnessed? I didn't know their was an Atheist Church to compare results against those who went to, and those who turned from the "idea" of God seeing as I have to be technical to keep things straight.

                Yes. "You're" very wrong. You have not one account of who decided God couldn't be real because the world is so bad.

                It's aggravating to hear such incorrect information being told to everyone. You going to Church does not give you all the accurate information for the entire world.

                God bless..

                smile

                1. 0
                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You don't even make sense.

                  In my reply above, I referred you to two my hubs - one on atheism and one on religious vs science. If you're really interested in a backed up academic assessment, please go through all the videos.

                  I truly do not have time for an argument with someone who thinks he is the first to have this argument. This debate has been ranging for the last 100 years (at least) between atheists and religious people. All the arguments you bring up have been brought up before.

                  Enjoy your evening.

                  Good night.

    19. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

      a) they are brainwashed since childhood.
      b) they go through a really hard time and want to make sense of the world.
      c) they did terrible things and need forgiveness









      Basically if you think about ,people became Atheist because:

      1) They have been brainwashed.
      2) They see a niche in the market and can provide a new way of 'me' myself, I thinking plus get rich in the process.
      Great maketing skills ,play on words and for people who dwell on the workings of the mind (Oh i covered that in 1.

      3) They have an axe to grind,be it trauma or an event that they decided was Gods fault. Of course it was never mans fault.
      Man is  a powerless  poor victim apparently, as opposed to this big violent god who they dont believe in.

      Which is it ?

      1. mcbigmoji profile image59
        mcbigmojiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Basically if you think about ,people became Atheist because:

        I can think for myself?

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Wow. What an insulting statement. Probably the type of thing the OP was addressing. It's the arrogance of both ends of this debate that show a lack of thought.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            If you think some one has insulted you - perhaps you might try looking inside and see why it is that you feel so insulted. Your insecurity and quickness to anger may be the issue here. Just because some one does not believe in Majikal Super Beings and chooses instead to think for themselves - this is no reason to attack them. Nor is it an insult to your god.

            How odd that you demand tolerance of this behavior. I for one will stand up again this sort of behavior any day. Sooner or later you religionists will realize we need to have some standards of behavior and moral codes in order to stop the fighting. sad

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hi mark..I thought I had gotten rid of you for good. Go figure.

              I'm not insulted, by any means. I've had an epiphany. smile

              Anyway, the point I was making (that you missed) is that both ends are incredibly rude and arrogant. These are emotional arguments, that will do little more than insult one another.

              I understand that the emotional atheist poster is responding to years of being preached to. I don't see it as mature, but it is understood.

              I don't like to see people attacked unfairly. No matter who they are..I'd stand up for you too, if I thought it fair to do so.

              Anyhoo, that being said, trust me, this is no longer the droid you're looking for. Your argument means nothing to me anymore. Like I told Bailey bear, I really don't have a dog in this fight.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Trollin trollin trollin.

                Dear me, you religionists are dishonest.

                Pity you seem incapable (don't care) of understanding that this is what causes all the fights.

                Not that I have a position either way - I am just an impartial observer. lol lol lol

                Bye bye. Glad you will not be partaking any more.

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  lol impartial observer? I always imagined you in a shroud with a sickle. But I have an overactive imagination.

                  You're unfair on your assessment of your adversary, but you were always good for a few laughs.

                  We'll never cease being adversaries, because I will never be like you, but most of all because you leave yourself wide open for attack with these humorous posts.

                  But, you can never honestly call me a religionist again. I won't bore you with the details.

                  Unfortunately for you, I still find amusement here; so I'll still comment if I run across a comment you make that is blatantly in error, or warrants an obnoxious response; because I can recognize what I'm not but I can't deny what I am. Which is (as you've noticed) someone that speaks their mind. smile

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    How funny. LOLOLO

                    Religionists like you will always cause fights. How funny that you think repeating religious nonsense is "speaking your mind." lol

                    IDK - Perhps if you did not hide behind an anonymous persona? lol I thought you were done with this? No? lol

                    At least you admit you consider yourself an adversary. Because I don't believe in an invisible super being. Oh well. This is why your religion causes so many wars. sad

                    1. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Oh, well. You are nothing if not consistent. Believe what you want mark. It's what you do. As usual, you are off the mark. smile

                    2. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Hey mark. I just got what you were implying. Silly man. It simply finally sunk in that I honestly don't agree with any of it. Not just their side, but of course your side, too. I think you are all overly emotional about what boils down to little more than a bunch of opinions. I'd been scratching my head for a month as to why I found the whole thing so funny.

                      The truth is, I think what I think. That's all I know. I'm not being fair to them to argue over their scriptures. Maybe that is what they say it means.  I think, if I am honest, there probably was a subconscious niggle of fear that they might be right; but the bottom line is that if they are, I'm headed for hell anyway. I've believed what I do for too long. If we are to be judged, I'll be judged by what I think and I honestly think it's all bogus.

            2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              He said

              She said


              Beam me up Scotty :LOl;

              The problem with Atheists is they think they have the answer for everything-they dont, Next he or she plumps up the feathers and up on their self made podiums they create begin pointing fingers at God ,Christians, Mickey Mouse and anyone who wants listen to them.

              Degrading another humans belief system ,makes them feel important. Bullies do that too.

              They  are also well versed in dishing out insults, and inuendo's.
              Wow did they learn that at private schools I wonder? dreadful waste of mummy and daddys money for sure.

              Attack the problem ,not the person.

              Number one rule in debating smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                lol

                Great points, but don't diss private schools too badly. I'm a product of one and I think these guys are twits sometimes too. smile

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry nothing personal , I was a mixture of public and private myself lol

                  Its a human problem.
                  Lack of morals seems to be noticeably lacking, or its the blame game.

              2. Woman Of Courage profile image61
                Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Very well stated. God is only one who has the answer for everything.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  So, I suppose no one has asked him for a cancer cure all of these many years?  lol

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The water was once pure ,flowed like milk and honey.

                    However during the course of that rivers life it became contimated,hence bacteria,sickness passing through polutions of every kind,sometimes even well meaning additives ,all adding to eventually 'new water'. Doctored up ,safe to drink (according to the man),but still not the original pure water!

                    Hence sickness remains,and until we quit contimating and adjusting our own cures to fix the pollutants,they will remain.

                    Bottom line is choice.

                    Humans are the guardians of this world or God is,but if you say God isnt,then surely the maintance remains with mankind.

                    1. Beelzedad profile image59
                      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      lol Hilarious.

                2. Cagsil profile image83
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  What god? lol

          2. 0
            Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I don't understand how you found this statement personally insulting.  It's one of the reasons I rejected christianity - I started thinking for myself

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Not personally. I would, if I agreed with the  any of them. Your statement is  presented as if a generalization about all who hold to a religion. I didn't remember if the OP was addressing all religions or one in particular.

              Anyway, when you make a statement in that manner it doesn't appear as anything other than saying that anyone with a brain would agree with you. I would take it as an insult if I felt that it was directed at me.

      2. skyfire profile image72
        skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Considering christian preaching, god channel sales pitch on tv and internet, christian dating, products and all the things. Let me just turn the table back to ya wink

      3. 0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        @eaglekiwi.

        Obviously, you think that what applies to one set of the population applies equally well to the other side. You must have failed science.

        1)Probably more than 50% of atheists grew up in religious homes. They were initially socialized by their parents and/or peers and/or their environment to become religious. Their studies and thinking made them leave that environment and make another choice.

        2)As for the 'getting rich', it's Christians who started the prosperity movement - out of complete step with the bible which teaches a sort of communism. Go read your bible.

        3) The Christian injunction that Christians must go forth and witness and bring people to the 'Lord' is 100% responsible for the backlash that is now taking place.

        1. vector7 profile image59
          vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "Probably more than 50% of atheists grew up in religious homes."

          Is this just a random guess then, or do you have a source?

          "As for the 'getting rich', it's Christians who started the prosperity movement - out of complete step with the bible which teaches a sort of communism. Go read your bible."

          Again no evidence. Basic personal opinion.

          This is another stereotype, which I've noticed a lot of people using against Christians lately. Need we go over statistics against all Atheists and Agnostics?

          And I do read my Bible. I wonder why your telling me I should if you don't believe it. And also how you would know whether I do.

          "The Christian injunction that Christians must go forth and witness and bring people to the 'Lord' is 100% responsible for the backlash that is now taking place."

          We don't bring people to the Lord, we tell them of Him. He does anything beyond that.

          smile

          1. 0
            Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Deleted

            1. vector7 profile image59
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Deleted

              1. vector7 profile image59
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Deleted

                1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  And what makes you come to religious threads?  To share the good word?  Are you speaking for Jesus when you admonish others?  lol  Did you inherit your religion or did you simply choose it from all the rest?

            2. 0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You might like to read my two hubs on atheism and religion. Those things are backed up. I just don't have time to do this anymore.
              It's going round in circles.

            3. vector7 profile image59
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I deleted my posts for anyone curious and for Sophia to know because:

              I allowed myself to be drawn to the personalisation that was made and that is not what I'm suppose to do. Therefore I withdrew my statements as the way I posted was wrong.

              I'm sorry if I offended you. I simply feel the information isn't accurate at all. And I do read my Bible, which I'm attempting as of right now to follow.

              God bless..

              smile

            4. Woman Of Courage profile image61
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              vector, Stereotype is used against christians quite often. All christians get slammed in the same boat because of the actions of other people. That's not nice, but we have to love them anyway smile Lastly, a, b, or c of Sophia list didn't apply to me. I thought freely on my own when I recieved Jesus. I became a christian because Iove I love God for the wonderful God he is, and wanted to serve God.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No one would get slammed if you guys simply kept your religion to yourself.  Try it and you'll see it's true.  Let folks be happy in their own delusional religions. and keep yours private.  smile

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  How arrogant Randy,to think you or anyone should tell people to keep their opinions to themselves. lol

                  No its is really unbelievable!

                  1. Cagsil profile image83
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Arrogant? It's arrogant for a believer to tell someone else that their god is going to judge the non-believer. When the best thing to do is keep the comments to themselves, instead of creating conflict....don't you agree?

                    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Yes.

                      But if it were that easy.

                      I can be accountable for my actions ,not the millions fro my past.

                      Thats fair.

                      1. Cagsil profile image83
                        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        I agree, you are accountable for your actions and not the actions of others from the past. wink

                        And, yes that would be fair.

                    2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Do you say the same thing to Atheists I wonder Cags?
                      Or is it one of those double standard things smile

                      1. Cagsil profile image83
                        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        Hey EK, most atheist speak about things based on facts and evidence, which are derived from reality. They're in fact offended by Christians and religion in general. Their actions are just reactions, like someone who cries out from pain.

                        No double standard. I don't approve of Atheists any more than religious folks, but I understand where Atheists come from and why.

                        As for the religious, they just deny their actions, which is an unacceptance of responsibility of their own actions.

                        Big difference.

                        Cause and effect rules apply, just like any other aspect of life.

                  2. Randy Godwin profile image94
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    So you think it is okay to try and convince others YOU know better than they concerning gods?  lol  You are essentially deciding their fate for them, whether you are right or wrong in the matter.  What gives you the right to do so?  What makes you think your idea of which god to worship is better than anyone's?

                    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I dont think my idea is better ,or the only one
                      Its better for me smile however (I tried the alternative)

                2. Woman Of Courage profile image61
                  Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi Randy, No, I will not try it, but thanks for the offer. I will continue to discuss my faith, regardless of getting slammed. No one is forcing you to paticipate in the forums where believers are discussing their faith. I will leave you to fight with yourself.  I love you. smile

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    W.O.C Hugss

                    What a glorious (pre) Spring day today.
                    I saw trees with tiny new buds and dafodils peeking bravely out this afternoon!!
                    God is so amazing smile

                    1. Woman Of Courage profile image61
                      Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Eaglekiwi, Yes it was a beautiful spring day. smile I love the colorful trees and flowers. God is wonderful. Love and blessings to you.

                  2. Randy Godwin profile image94
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Of course you won't, WOC!  Why don't you simply explain the wonderful things you have accomplished with the help of your god?  You know, things a non-believer cannot do here on earth.  Surely with an all powerful deity backing you there have to be miraculous deeds done by you.  Pray tell us of them,  smile

        2. 0
          Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          a & b of Sophia's list applied to me. 

          None of your list applied to me, nor is why people reject religion, IMO.

          I started thinking for myself.  I questioned my beliefs.  I was tired of the hypocrisy & contradictions.  God was silent in my suffering.  Science made more sense than religion.

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Science corrects itself on a monthly basis. How accurate is that?

            smile

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              At least Science does correct itself though. Not much can be said for you. hmm

              1. vector7 profile image59
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                More personal attacks on my character? I thought we went over this Cag...

                Not nice..

                smile

                1. Cagsil profile image83
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You call that a personal attack? WOW!

                  Grow up!

            2. 0
              Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              science keeps building on itself with more knowledge & evidence gained.  Religion just claims to know 'truth' without evidence

      4. NateSean profile image85
        NateSeanposted 5 years ago

        It's funny how the OP was asking for respect but the Internet F-wads of the forum couldn't even give that much.

        So long as they have the protection of anonymity that the Internet provides, respect is always going to be optional to them. These people wouldn't have the grapes to actually go into a church or other religious function and spout their same nonsensical rants that they post online, so frankly their opinion means nothing to me.

        It shouldn't mean anything to you either. Turn the other cheek and ignore the cowards who use the cloak of their screen names to spew their ignorance.

        1. simeonvisser profile image88
          simeonvisserposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Should falsehoods get respect? Should people to want to convert (force) others to their beliefs get respect? So much for spreading peace and love.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I think nate sean had a valid point. I doubt any here who so rudely attack religion have the intestinal fortitude to speak these words. Most would be better advised to tell the people who are bothering them in the real world to stop.

            The emotional nature of the argument against religion is too obvious to be ignored. As is the emotional nature of the religious stance.

            1. simeonvisser profile image88
              simeonvisserposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Religious bring this upon themselves in my opinion. You can't walk around claiming whatever you want and then say to others: you must respect my beliefs, and oh, you should believe it too otherwise you'll perish. Regardless of anonimity on the internet, if you act like that, you can expect rude responses.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I agree. But the belief on either side, that they somehow have the answers and need to shove it down the throat of another would be laughable, except for the fact that one must assume these are adults posting the statements.

                Rudeness from the  few religious fundamentalists appears to have caused a tsunami of animosity towards belief in general.  Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right.

              2. 0
                Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                agree

      5. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago

        Well I don't hide behind an avatar. This is me. I find it interesting that some who claim religious detractors hide and have no gurbles, are hiding behind a blind profile when they do so! lol

        1. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hey Earnest, I guess people could look at my avatar as hiding, however, all of my written material actually has my real name on it. I don't think an avatar matter much and shouldn't carry any weight.

          But, I guess you could just chalk that up to just my opinion, like everyone else does with my posts. wink

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I have notices that you are open about who you are.
            I have another profile here that, like yours is not me as a person.
            I don't use it to post, as I have no information there about who I am, unlike yours, so I post as me all the time. smile

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              smile

      6. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

        Oh so you not only speak for God now but me too lol

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          As above, I am not speaking for you or your god, I will let your own god speak exactly as it is in "the good book."

      7. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

        Earnest everyone Im sure has many a story to tell.


        I didnt just wake up one day and wonder aimlessly through the doors  of the nearest church.

        For me ,it was relising my happiness or peace wasnt going to come from anybody or anything.

        Sure in my teenage years alcohol was the great escape (from reality) the usual distractions are fun for awhile.

        But theres always a morning after lol guess I got tired of the same ole same ole.

        I am from a family of nine ,5 brothers and 4 sisters,
        My father was a Mormon elder ,then gave it up, for hard work and hard drinking. My Mum was raised a Presbyterian,she passed on when I was 13...so my Religious indoctrination was balanced by other things believe you me.

        In fact my beer drinking, hard working father raised four daughters,after his wife died and never drew a welfare check!

        My brothers have respectable careers, 2 have been in prison
        Same with my sisters ,though none in prison.

        I ,too come from a mixed and colourful background.

        I have been to different churches as well. Some good, Some not.

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You have an interesting background. My mother was very religious. smile

      8. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

        I know all these events in our past help influence our decisions in life.

        But looking around society and this world in general ,choosing God in my life enhances it not the other way around.

      9. pisean282311 profile image58
        pisean282311posted 5 years ago

        Well as long as believers would want to spread the message , non believers would want to stop the spread of message...it is as simple as that...generally non believers dont care what religions preach as long as religion restrains itself to believer and his/her personal domain...

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Can't say fairer than that! smile Spot on! :]

      10. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago

        G'day Mark. Nice to see you are still around. smile I have noticed you absence during the last few months. You are not here as often these days. Good for you! smile

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol you should let that sense of humor out more often. That was a good one.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I reckon I am a bit Australian with my humor. It's a cultural thing like religion. smile Are you enjoying the banter? smile

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Always. smile Especially with Mark. I think his sense of humor is bigger than he let's on sometimes. Other times? Not so much.

      11. mcrawford76 profile image90
        mcrawford76posted 5 years ago

        I would just like to state 3 facts from my point of view;

        1. People are going to and have the right to believe whatever it is they want to believe. No matter what you say in opposition of their beliefs will be cast off.

        2. I myself have never attempted to lure, convert, transform, or change anyone's religious beliefs to suit my own. (see statment #1)

        3. If one man looks up and sees a blue sky he would say the sky is blue. If another man looks up and sees a grey sky and says it is grey, they are BOTH right as they are only stating what they see and believe to be true.

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I'll second that!
          but.......I still think it is worth protecting people from the wrath of the invisible god though, by explaining here that the nasty story is just a tale badly told for the main part, and another way to waste a life.

      12. dingdondingdon profile image61
        dingdondingdonposted 5 years ago

        Let's face the truth: there are intolerant people on both sides. I have met extremely intolerant and hateful religious people who cannot stand the idea that non-believers even exist. Heck, don't you think there's a reason no President has ever been openly Atheist? It's because hate would rain down upon him if he was (that is, if he were even elected).

        And of course, I have met very judgmental and unkind Atheists and Agnostics too. I'm sad to say that many fellow Atheists do look down on the religious. I've even been guilty of it myself in the past.

        I think we are both reacting to the unpleasant people on both sides, and it's a shame, because we miss the peaceful and tolerant majorities.

        1. 67
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You are right.

          One should be moderate and present one's stance with brilliant arguments; there should not be any bitterness or anger.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hey there.

            You still did  not tell me what Allah is going to do to me for not believing nonsense. I know he is unmerciful but what does that mean exactly?

            Thanks.

      13. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

        And when will you accept I dont have a religion!!!

        Guess not in my life time.


        Barrier to communication right there.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Of course you have a religion. It is all you talk about. You even argue that the bible should be taught in school because life was better when there was segregation and slavery. sad

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hey mark. You do realize the term trolling is a fishing term. Fisherman are nice. You aren't supposed to act like a troll literally. smile

          2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Your perception is quite distorted.

            Translated- A lie.

      14. donotfear profile image92
        donotfearposted 5 years ago

        Well, now, aren't we special today?

        http://redstick.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/churchlady.jpg

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol lol lol

        2. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          ROFL
          I agree with Earnest on that one.
          It's 'most always funny, I don' care who ya are!  lol

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hello Brenda, I have no idea what time you have, but it is 6 am here. I got up really early this morning. I hope I find you in good spirits? smile

            1. 0
              Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              6 A.M.?

              It's after 2:30 P.M. here.

              Yes, I'm in good spirits!  Or Spirit anyway.
              My body may give out anytime, but my spirit never totally does.

              How are you doing?  Especially with the 6 A.M. thing.  If I get up that early these days, I'm ready for a nap by noon! ha

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I have been a napper for many years, even as a young man, I would use naps to refresh through the day. smile Things are going nicely again, I will soon even have a wardrobe! My old one floated away when I was flooded. I finally fixed my ute yesterday, (flooded too,) so those sorts of things are normalizing. smile For the rest  of it, my life is wonderful thank you for asking.

      15. 67
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

        Eaglekiwi wrote:

        Attack the problem ,not the person.

        Number one rule in debating

      16. waynet profile image46
        waynetposted 5 years ago

        I had some god botherers knock on my door today saying that the world will end because it doesn't belong to us and we should all join jesus and have one big sing along with some nice hymns and a nice cup of tea and we will be saved......bwahahaha!

        I love it when those people knock on my door, then I can tell them just how cool they are with their flask of weak lemon tea and jammie dodgers in their pockets.

        Don't you want to be saved the women said to me as I said bollocks! so I said I've saved myself from this shite and slammed the door!

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Good response I reckon. I copped a couple of them the other day as well. I told them they were too late, I WAS already "saved" then closed the door quickly leaving them standing there arguing about if they should try again. They decided not to, and went next door where they will get a reception the whole neighborhood will hear! Serves em right! lol

        2. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Waynet:
          Just answer the door naked singing: "jesus loves the little children..."
          That does it for me...
          ...and guess what? they never come back!
          It's surefire!   lolol  smile:
          Qwark

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol lol lol lol lol

            1. qwark profile image61
              qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Works everytime Cags....lolol smile:
              Qwark

          2. waynet profile image46
            waynetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Lol!

            I once answered the door and they said Jesus will save you here's a little leaflet on everything holy and I said no I've already made a deal with the devil and he said if I eat a raw chicken then I may be Satans best friend...they ran for the hills!

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Which is where a lot of them come from I believe. smile

              1. waynet profile image46
                waynetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Well if they stayed there, then all will be a lot quieter in the world without all this holy arse spam that they try and hand to us at our door....next time they do this I'm gonna get them fined for littering my house with gibberish leaflets!

            2. qwark profile image61
              qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hey, if it works...use it...smile:
              QWark

      17. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

        Seriously why do atheists always feel every Christians is trying to ram the word of God down their throat?

        It really is an overstatement.

        Boaders on paranoia.

        1. Sanyiel profile image59
          Sanyielposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It's because there are a lot of Christians who do attempt to do that. It's an overstatement to say that every Christian does it, but saying that most Christians do it would be correct going by what I have personally witnessed.

        2. Woman Of Courage profile image61
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Eaglekiwi, Atheists feel when christians boldly stand on the word of God that christians are forcing the word of God down their throat. The word of God should come forth whenever they enter the forums to attack the believer's faith.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Quite sad.

            I was raised to show more respect.

            1. Woman Of Courage profile image61
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              So was I. smile

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I was raised to only respect things that earn it. But - I think it is awesome that you respect gay people now. Good for you.

                1. Woman Of Courage profile image61
                  Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow, Mark is starting another war. Thank you, but I have always respected them as an individual. smile

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That is wonderful. Good for you. I am glad you now respect them and their choices. Well done> perhaps now the fighting will stop because you no longer think they are going against what god wants?

                    We can but hope. lol

                    1. Woman Of Courage profile image61
                      Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Ok Mark, I can see you are here to fight, and I don't have time for it. You don't read very well. I never stated "and their choices."  I encourage you not put words in my mouth. Please read again to view exactly what is written. hmm

                      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        Ah - so you "selectively " respect them. Which is no respect at all. I read just fine - I wanted to clarify that you were not being truthful.

                        Me? I love and respect you. I just hate and despise your irrational beliefs, and the fact that you are dishonest and cowardly.

                        That the sort of respect you were taught huh? lol


                        Little wonder your religion causes so many wars. sad

      18. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

        Hey EK, most atheist speak about things based on facts and evidence, which are derived from reality. They're in fact offended by Christians and religion in general. Their actions are just reactions, like someone who cries out from pain.

        Sorry I disagree ,my observations have been that you lean(quite a lot) on the other side ,but hey thats your choice. Just thought Id point out the double standards is all.

        I see the wanting to silence or control how and when I say it to be very selfish!!

        On the other hand I have seen many Christians who love God ,themselves and fellow man ,while sacrificing their time ,money and labour.

        That is unselfish. They do not do it for recognition ,in fact many acts go unseen.

        You might determine they do it out of fear ,indoctrination, whatever other label.I say ,open your eyes wider smile

        1. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't lean on either side. My argument isn't the same as the Atheist, so there isn't a double standard. Mine isn't a reaction, but is one of teaching to correctness of life itself.
          Then you are short sighted. The goal is peace.
          All based on the original belief that is selfish. So all consequent action is selfish. Sorry, cannot avoid it, but you can believe what you want. I'm just pointing it out, as it IS, not as it appears.
          Sure they do it for recognition, just not recognition of humans, but of their god. What part do you not understand about selfish behavior.
          My eyes are open, as is my mind. wink Sorry, you cannot see it yourself.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Sure they do it for recognition, just not recognition of humans, but of their god. What part do you not understand about selfish behavior

            And that is selfish?

            Namecalling ,mocking ,critising, etc etc is hardly the hallmark of Peace lol

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The belief is selfish because all of their actions are with the intent to be favored by their god. That's what makes it selfish. Putting themselves before others.
              Be specific?
              Is sarcasm is it not?
              Criticizing is based on actions. The actions can be criticized/evaluated/judged.
              If you were not ever criticized, then how would you know if you needed improvement?

      19. brimancandy profile image83
        brimancandyposted 5 years ago

        BORING!!! Same old argument that is never going to end. It's been going on for hundreds of years, and in some places, like the middle east, even longer than that. And, violent protests, not just talk.

        I only commented because I'm tired of hearing about it. Because all it seems to do is make people bitter and confused. very sad.

      20. 67
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

        Is there a harm if the atheists become more tolerant.

        Why they consider it a bad thing to be tolerant?

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Your intolerance is intolerable and I refuse to tolerate it - it causes conflicts.

        2. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Do you mean in the way you are tolerant? Your religion is right and all the others are wrong?
          Tolerance? Religion is the opposite to tolerance.

      21. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago

        You're cute. Really. I know you don't see the emotional side of your argument, but it is there. Why does it upset you that they threaten hell. It isn't real, and yet it upsets you. Why is that? That is one of the things I find odd about the debates. Of course there's the god is evil argument. If there is no god, how is he evil? Why do you appear to argue this with such vehemence? Everything seems so passionate, when the actual reasons to argue against belief  in that type of deity, or god or whatever you want to call it are quite the opposite. For me anyway.

        Call me indoctrinated again and again. But it doesn't make it true. If it is true, and you seriously want to prove it, you'll have to change up the argument because I honestly don't see it. And I do try. smile

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          On the contrary, you imagine an emotional side to my argument.



          Yes, I know you find it odd, being on the side that generates the threats. In other words, you're fully at ease when people threaten you.



          You seem to be forgetting the followers of religions, those who actually make the threats. Believers are unable to imagine a world without their gods, hence it is up to those who can imagine both worlds to stoop to that level of that intellect for sake of discussion.



          No, you don't try and yes, the proof is in your posts. I completely understand why you can't see that. smile

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I have never been comfortable with the fundamentalists's behavior and, since I know you know this, I'll let that attempt at insult roll on down the hill. I understand your argument, I simply think you've oversimplified. I cannot get through to you that my experiences do not fall into the free trip category. Nothing was gained but peace, when it was needed. It doesn't appear to me to mirror anything indoctrination would have manifested. Even when I take it down to its simplest form, when I take into account that it was years ago and I must have surely embellished it in my mind; I still can't completely explain it.

            I know you assume those who are not atheists are overly emotional, but I know me well enough to know that plays little more than a tiny roll in the way I look at things. I can't stop looking at this until I find the answer, or find a logical way to set it aside. It's too odd.

            1. Beelzedad profile image59
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I don't think you understand at all.



              It's called indoctrination. Once you understand that, you'll be able to deal with it.



              See above, re: indoctrination. The answer is right in front of you. smile

          2. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hey beelzedad. I finally figured out where you're coming from with this indoctrination argument. You're right. Congratulations. Schmuck.

            1. Beelzedad profile image59
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Indoctrination was not your fault, you were simply the victim. There's no need to feel embarrassed or hurt about it, just deal with it and you'll be fine. smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Do not presume to know me. I am neither embarrassed or hurt. No one did anything out of a sense of anything but what they believed to be right. Why would that bother me?

                1. Beelzedad profile image59
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, they believed it to be right because they themselves were indoctrinated, and those before them.

                  It doesn't bother you because you wholeheartedly accepted and embraced the indoctrination.

                  And, if you don't break the vicious cycle, you will most likely indoctrinate your children, if you haven't done so already. smile

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    You are, without a doubt a pompous something or other. I never took my son to any church, or gave him any 'indoctrination'.

                    It doesn't bother me because I am an adult. Whatever mistakes were made have long since ceased to be anyone's responsibility but mine.

                    1. Beelzedad profile image59
                      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      LOL! And you said I was emotional.



                      Does he believe as you do in the same god?



                      Not really, you never chose a belief system, it was chosen for you. smile

                      1. 0
                        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        Deleted

                      2. 0
                        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        That's the difference between you and me. I am not going to blame others for my thoughts. Whatever was presented was accepted. By choice. And beliefs are held. By choice.

                        And I have no idea what my son's concept on god is. I'm sure his friends know, but I'm not on the habit of talking about stuff like that face to face with people. It just seems oddly personal.

                        And yes, I'm sure my first statement sounded emotional. Sorry. Maybe I am.

        2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What are you trying to start a war lol

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            With him? Heaven forbid. It would end up another 100 year war.  He's tenacious.

      22. ChikkenPotPie profile image60
        ChikkenPotPieposted 5 years ago

        I definitely agree with you op.  And I can see you're getting hit by the non-tolerance doctrine for starting this thread.  I've seen it over and over and over in forums, message boards and chat rooms.  The superior atheists go on accusing and labeling all christians as "bible thumping, fairy tale believing intolerant christian converting machines" or some such nonsense.  Didn't we learn anything from the liberal agenda taught in school?  You can't class a certain race, group, or in this case religion into the same lump and expect them all to be the same.  That is profiling.  And then the athiests come back at it with a comment about how "well, you know, the jews and the arabs and xyz religions don't go around CONVERTING people and being intolerant like Christians do" or they make a crack about the flying spaghetti monster.  You aren't intolerant OP, you're observant, and I've observed the exact same thing.  I think it's very brave of you to speak up about it.  Unfortunately, the non-believers will always go on thinking they're just oh-so-much better than those of christian faith, and so so so much more intelligent than the "fairy tale believers."  They're just as intolerant as they accuse Christians of being - and talk about 'converting' - yeesh, it doesn't matter if you have a religion or not, all I see is that you're trying to 'convert' people to your way of thinking just as much if not more than Christian folk try to 'convert' people. You'll never change those types of people, but the least you can do is stand up to them.

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Then, by your very own words, Christians, for example, must not believe in the same word of their god and act the same way according to his laws and commands?

           

          But, the are intolerant just like Christians. Atheists understand that.



          I take it you're not a Pastafarian?





          Please explain how atheists attempt conversion? How does that work exactly?



          Yes, and fight, fight, fight with all your righteous might! lol

      23. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago

        I found the long post accusing atheists of profiling interesting.

        Looks like it is profiling anyone without a religion! lol

      24. aware profile image70
        awareposted 5 years ago

        mick .your not helpful....
        at all.

      25. Clotier Nailing profile image60
        Clotier Nailingposted 5 years ago

        smile

      26. PlanksandNails profile image88
        PlanksandNailsposted 5 years ago

        Ok everyone, sit down and watch this clip in the link below. It might sum up the essence of all this banter.

        http://www.wimp.com/animalvoiceovers/

      27. kirstenblog profile image78
        kirstenblogposted 5 years ago

        so who's winning then?

        1. aguasilver profile image88
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Nobody will win, it's not about winning is it?

          Mark will continue dripping it out and some believer (even if I get back on with my work and drop out)will continue preaching the word.

          If the religious forum were never visited again by any protagonist, believers would still be preaching the gospel to each other, because it's how we communicate.... the other day I was doing a deal with someone, no talk of religion on the table whatsoever, but when the deal was done they mentioned they were believers in a circumspect way, and immediately we changed gear, me by stating that this was a Romans 8:28 situation and them agreeing that it was predestined... i.e. we never spoke about Christ whilst doing the deal, but found out afterwards we were all believers... and felt even more secure in our dealings.

          My business partner is secular, so she found it bizarre, especially when the believers grouped together in a hotel room to pray once we were closing the door on the deal... let's face it, secular folk will never understand believers.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I understand you just fine John.

            1. aguasilver profile image88
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Then you display masochistic tendencies! smile

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No John, I do not. Lets face it - when ever I pose a real question that challenges your blind belief in nonsense, you run away.

                When was there nothing and why do you believe this?

                1. aguasilver profile image88
                  aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Still musing on that Mark, and I'm not running away, been busy, signed up two countries this last week or so, took some time out of my day, so still thinking, and as it does not state that there was nothing in Genesis, then obviously there could have been something to start with... but what difference would that make about who created it in the first place, and if you know the answer.... share!

                  I admit it takes a heap of thought to get over something existing without there being nothing before it existed, but we are talking about eternity, and it does answer the perennial atheists blabber 'So who created God'.

                  I like you Mark, I just find you pedestrian in your repetition, though I must give you full marks for consistency.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Of course I repeat myself John. Every time you blabber some mystical nonsense and attempt to "correct me," I will say the same thing. Please stop doing it - it causes conflict and you have no authority. None.

                    I don't blame you for once again attacking atheists when I ask you this question. Your assumptions are being challenged - and although you may deny this consciously, this question goes to the root of your blind, mystical, irrational faith and the reason you feel "more comfortable" with people who share your nonsensical beliefs.

                    This is why your religion causes so many conflicts. sad

                    1. aguasilver profile image88
                      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      http://frankierants.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/broken-record-765056.jpg?w=300&h=300

                      "It's the same old song
                      But with a different meaning
                      Since you been gone
                      It's the same old song
                      But with a different meaning
                      Since you been gone"

                      Four Tops

                      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        Still true though John. Your religion has already caused 2,000 years of wars and is causing division and conflict to this day.

                        The Truth Hurts. sad

          2. kirstenblog profile image78
            kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            With the seemingly eternal back and forth on both sides it seems as tho it is about winning. This is not a religious site so why argue religion if not to win?

            As will certain 'believers'.

            This thread was started with the sole purpose of accusing those who do not share religious beliefs (non-believers) of being intolerant. I guess they can't start a 'message for Mark Knowles: Stop being so intolerant' cause that would be a personal attack. Is it so hard to wonder why people respond so strongly to a tread posted as an attack on a group of people (if you don't think its an attack try re-posting and replace Mark Knowles with non-believers and see how long till you are banned for personal attack)?
            I would like to point out again, this is not a religious christian site. If you insist on preaching the word on a non-religious site do not be surprised when you get accused of shoving your religion on others. If I want to discuss my religious beliefs with like minded people I will go to a site set up specifically for people with my belief set not a site for writing (to make money). If you are unable to keep your religious beliefs humble and respectful then that is just sad, and scary.


            What about believers who stopped believing? How about all those believers who don't understand each other? I think you are mistaking the word understand with the phrase, agree with. It does seem that anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't understand you. The same can be said for those who are fond of 'spreading the word' in mainstream venues such as this writing site because they will be accused of shoving their beliefs on others. Its not like we never heard of this Jesus guy and have all been living under
            rocks you know wink

            1. aguasilver profile image88
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Last time I looked, this page was under Religion and Philosophy, which kinda makes it a religious discussion area, therefore it's reasonable to presume that hubbers taking time off from earning all those big bucks will discuss religion here when visiting.

              When I was a non believer, I simply ignored those who preached to me, or spread the word, as I was (then) secure in my unbelief they were inconsequential to me, so why would I try to stop them in what they were doing?

              As soon as I came to faith, I spotted the difference when I shared the gospel with some folk, those who were the most offensive to me, were those who had previously loved me for my 'open minded' and 'tolerant' approach to life, now they became scornful enemies... I wrote my first article about it 'The J Word' and it amazed me how quickly those who supposedly loved me turned to hating me, and the only change... Christ.

              As to personal attacks, maybe I should register up as a false flag name 'Jesus Christ'... then I could report people every day for personal attacks and blasphemy. smile

              Or would that not count?

              1. kirstenblog profile image78
                kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Fair nuff, just saying that folks wishing to discuss how silly religion is will come here too, and clash with their opposite numbers as this isn't a christian site.


                Funny, take your story and totally reverse it, and you have mine! As a kid of like 8 I asked my dad one day why we didn't go to church. He said we didn't believe in all that stuff but that if I wanted to go and see what it was like he would take me (he totally and completely hates religion for very good reasons) so I could see what it was like. He made it clear to me that I could try as many churches as I liked, that he would take me to as many different churches as I liked, until I found one I liked or stopped wanting to go at all. I, of course, stuck with the first one I tried. They complimented me for going to church as I came from an atheist home. When I got old enough to question things, thats when things changed. The supportive respect from the religions community dried right up. On the other hand, agnostics and atheists and the like were still supportive, they were supportive of me thinking and learning for myself, whatever conclusions I came to. So the kindness and respect I got from the church only lasted as long as I smiled and nodded my head in agreement, the second I had questions and couldn't just accept what I was being told I was insulted and bullied and worse. The atheists and agnostics and such never changed their attitude toward me.



                Oh I don't know if it counts or not but it would be funny as all get out!

              2. 0
                Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                probably because you come across quite intolerant , judgemental a lot.

                1. aguasilver profile image88
                  aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  If intolerant means not suffering insults and abuse against Christ without response, then I guess I am, if judgmental equates to quoting scripture that offends secular folk, then I can see that they would view me that way, but scripture (Gods Word) never returns void, so for one person it may seem judgmental, but to another it may bring conviction of sin and error...

                  We have no right to judge each other, we will all stand before Christ for judgement, until then.... we just need to know that we are right in what we stake our eternity upon.

                  As long as you know that, you have no problem.

          3. dingdondingdon profile image61
            dingdondingdonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You're saying you felt closer to this man because you were of the same belief system. That's hardly something limited to religious people. I feel closer to someone when I discover they're an atheist, because then I know we have something in common. It's just a natural human response, not some mystical believer voodoo.

            1. aguasilver profile image88
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Not saying it is anything mystical, indeed as a believer I steer clear of mystical things, but I will say that I did 30 years business as a secularist and even if I did feel some affinity to a fellow secularist business person (lets be PC, the person I was dealing with was female) I seldom trusted them to be on the 'same page' as me, and when I did, I was normally screwed financially by them.

        2. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Looks like the Warriors of Christ are winning to me. They have decided the fault lies with non believers for not wanting their religion shoved at us and they insist that Timothy instructs them to keep on shoving it at us regardless of the conflicts it may cause. Hard to argue with some one who does what the bible says and ignores what real peopel say to them.

          I have a feeling that was not what Jesus intended. Oh well. sad

      28. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago

        There's an old saying

        "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

        1. aguasilver profile image88
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Brenda, whats cooking!

          1. 0
            Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The devil!
            He keeps jumpin' from the fryin' pan into the fire!  Woulda thought he'd a learned by now, but NO.   The Bible talks about how, when he is viewed by others at his final judgment, they'll be astonished that a rebellious weakling like him caused so much trouble for mankind!  Or words to that effect.  I'm trying to think of the specific Scripture.....

            1. aguasilver profile image88
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Isaiah 14 - 10:17

              All of them will [tauntingly] say to you, Have you also become weak as we are? Have you become like us?

              Your pomp and magnificence are brought down to Sheol (the underworld), along with the sound of your harps; the maggots [which prey upon dead bodies] are spread out under you and worms cover you [O Babylonian rulers].

              How have you fallen from heaven, O [b]light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who weakened and laid low the nations [O blasphemous, satanic king of Babylon!]

              And you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will sit upon the mount of assembly in the uttermost north.

              I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.

              Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol (Hades), to the innermost recesses of the pit (the region of the dead).

              Those who see you will gaze at you and consider you, saying, Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms?

              Who made the world like a wilderness and overthrew its cities, who would not permit his prisoners to return home?


              Always comforting when confronting the enemy!

              John

              1. 0
                Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yep that's it; thanks aguasilver!
                Isn't it awesome to know he's already been defeated by Jesus?!  And He didn't even have to lift His hand of war, though He could've if He had wanted to!  Just lifted up Himself and gave His all for us!
                Comforting indeed. smile


                Wow.  I keep editing, 'cause this keeps reminding me of so much awesome Scripture!  He could've called legions of angels to free Him from his captors and persecutors!  But He loved us so much that He endured the Cross!  Wow!   His story never gets old to me!

                1. aguasilver profile image88
                  aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  It never gets old because it is reenacted every day by some sinner who comes to faith.

                  Remember that moment when it all became real to you?

                  The moment when you just KNEW that your eternity WAS secure and NOTHING the enemy could do would separate you from the love of Christ.... another great scripture there...

                  Romans 8:34-36 (Amplified Bible)

                  Who is there to condemn [us]? Will Christ Jesus (the Messiah), Who died, or rather Who was raised from the dead, Who is at the right hand of God actually pleading as He intercedes for us?

                  Who shall ever separate us from Christ's love? Shall suffering and affliction and tribulation? Or calamity and distress? Or persecution or hunger or destitution or peril or sword?

                  What a promise we share!

                  1. 0
                    Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Amen.
                    I think my realization of that came gradually.  I was born-again when I was a pre-teen, but over the years I had bouts of temptation that almost persuaded me to rebel.  But after I looked back upon it, I realized how the Spirit had kept drawing me back toward Him.   Our God is so merciful!   And now that I've seen that He never changes, never stops Loving His children, I've become more secure and incidentally much less rebellious!  He keeps me from falling.

              2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                sad

                1. aguasilver profile image88
                  aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The enemy in this case (and in all cases) not being carnal flesh (you and me) but spiritual.....

                  Ephesians 6:11-13 (Amplified Bible)

                  Put on God's whole armor [the armor of a heavy-armed soldier which God supplies], that you may be able successfully to stand up against [all] the strategies and the deceits of the devil.

                  For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere.

                  Therefore put on God's complete armor, that you may be able to resist and stand your ground on the evil day [of danger], and, having done all [the crisis demands], to stand [firmly in your place].

                  Maybe you have a persecution complex? I was not calling YOU the enemy, and it would be presumptuous on your part to think so.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    But - I thought I was a "Satan Whisperer."? An atheist who drip drips drips heckling? An Antichrist? You are "suffering insults and abuse against Christ" at my hands.

                    Now you want to lie and say you do not think I am the enemy? You have spent the last 3 pages explaining to me that you consider me your enemy.

                    This is why your religion causes so many wars. sad

                    1. aguasilver profile image88
                      aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Mark, It's nearly midnight where I am, so this will be my last post for tonight.

                      You misunderstand... you do actually do all those things, yet you are not the enemy, it is the spiritual forces that provoke you to do all those things that are the enemy, you are simply a representative for the authority over your life, as I am a representative for the authority over my life.

                      But I know who is the authority over my life, whereas you deny there is any authority over you.

                      There lies the rub.

                      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        This would be why your religion causes so many wars.
                        Therein lies the rub. No morals. No authority. None.

                        Just conflict. sad

      29. 67
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

        A Message for Non-Believers: Stop being so Intolerant


        There is no harm if the non-believers-atheists become tolerant.

       
      working