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What gives Atheists the right to hurt innocent religions?

  1. 69
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    Mick Menous wrote:

    Personally, I really don't see what gives non-believers the right to criticize and verbally hurt innocent religions who want to do nothing but help spread peace, love, and do charity work for the poor.

    Paarsurrey says:

    It makes sense; the atheists should think.

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/70755?page=2

    1. nightwork4 profile image59
      nightwork4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      which religion are you claiming is innocent? surely not christianity or islam because these religions are far from innocent. buddism is the only religion that comes to mind that could be concidered innocent and i personally never say anything negative about it.

      1. UzumakiFizzles profile image61
        UzumakiFizzlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        why'd you say islam is far from innocent? I don't understand.

      2. 0
        BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        How  dare religions claim to be innocent???????
        I have a conscience and I believe I behave much better than most religious people I know!

        YES, there ARE good religious people but often religion is used to oppress and divide people.

        I believe I tolerate the religious beliefs held by people who are not fanatical beyond reason . The religions don't seem to tolerate each other, unless it is to gang up on Atheists and tell us how immoral we are.

        Today I wore Buddhist beads to the office and most of the religious people snubbed me. People seem to have tunnel vision when it comes to religion. I guess they are prepared to live their lives in ignorance.

        1. vector7 profile image58
          vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "YES, there ARE good religious people but often religion is used to oppress and divide people."

          So all that means didly and you admit it's just nut jobs who claim a religion.

          I agree..

          smile

          1. 0
            BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No, that is not what I mean.
            Most of my family is religious and they are not nut jobs.
            My Catholic mother would disown me if I were Muslim or Hindu but she doesn't mind me being atheist yikes

            i.e.
            "The religions don't seem to tolerate each other"

        2. 61
          passingthewordposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          hey bunubodu i just wanted to share this with you. Religion is bad. it does cause devision. But you can't blame God for religion. the Bible never says that God wanted religion . He wanted a relationship with his people.  In the bible you will not find that Jesus is any denomination. He saids that he is the word of God, the bible, a Christ man a man of God.
          just to remind you that the religious people are the onces that crucified Jesus
          Don't blame God for us crazy humans that so easily make mistakes.  lets read the bible the whole bible and see what he says.
          You are a good person and God loves you.

      3. Apostle Jack profile image60
        Apostle Jackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Christianity have been given a bad name because of corrupt people,clam-jumpers,and those that are greedy and self-righteous.Atheists play a part in it by their self contain belief and speaking only by theory and not fact.They have no proof that He don't exist,yet they spread the gossip of it.
        If you will,here is hidden knowledge:
        http://www.hubpages.com/hub/The-Race-for-Integrity

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Do you have proof he does exist? smile

          1. Apostle Jack profile image60
            Apostle Jackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            It is personal.It is direct,and it is evidence.It is enough to verify His existence in this world,and to know that Atheists can't for looking.Celestial Spirituality is proof beyond scientific, technical ,and personal opinions.
            Therefore I can say,you don't have a clue.

            1. Beelzedad profile image59
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, institutions are filled with those who have similar personal evidence of their invisible friends.



              And yet, you have done no such thing.



              The invisible and undetectable are proof. lol



              If you say so. LOL!

              1. Apostle Jack profile image60
                Apostle Jackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Let me give you an example of spirituality.Words are spiritual before they are written down.With these words I can communicate,upset you,or I can cause you to smile with these  words.YET,you cannot see them nor hear them.That is the way God is.You can't see Him,yet.....He exist.

                1. Beelzedad profile image59
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  lol That has got to be one of the funniest explanations I've ever heard.

                  You are honestly saying I can't see the words you are writing here on these forums and then comparing that to your invisible god?

                  Words, either spoken or written are part of reality. smile

                  1. Apostle Jack profile image60
                    Apostle Jackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I didn't say you can't see the words I write.I said you cannot see them before they are written down,yet have the same affect.You don't have to see God in order for Him to communicate .It is the same as invisible words that don't have to be written down in order for one to connect to.

                    I think you can't see the forest for the trees.

    2. Dave Mathews profile image59
      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It is because they have no beliefs at all, they have no conscience to tell them right from wrong, so they say what they please without any care as to whom they hurt.

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No conscience? That's a bit drastic Dave. Everyone has a conscience and to speak that one person doesn't, shows how much you understand the human species.

        1. Dave Mathews profile image59
          Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Cagsil it is neither drastic nor harsh to say that you or others like you have no conscience. The fact that you "Choose" to belittle the beliefs of others who believe in God is proof enough. As a good Christian, I forgive you your acts and beg God to do so too, and as you are my brother, I love you.

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            It's not belittling the beliefs. It is pointing out the truth about said belief. Get it straight.

          2. 0
            Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            how condescending

            1. earnestshub profile image89
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              and unfortunately typical.

            2. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hey Bailey, it just proves those who are religious fail to truly understand the love that their supposed god has supposedly given them.

              Just in case you haven't read the thread, scan through for my post, to see the difference between myself and them--- smile

              1. vector7 profile image58
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes please do.. I tell Cag I love him very often..

                I love you Cag.

                smile

                1. 0
                  Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Quit lying

      2. Eaglekiwi profile image76
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You win the post of the day award!!

        Dulled conscience maybe ,rebellious spirit perhaps.

        Definately selfish in nature.

      3. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
        Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What a load of nonsense. lol.....

    3. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      innocent?!?

    4. Titen-Sxull profile image95
      Titen-Sxullposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I get the feeling that you're a troll and we're providing a feast.

      As I'm sure has been pointed out religion is far from innocent, not that it holds all the blame for everything but it does have a mostly negative impact.

      But on top of that how about the Constitution? I live in the USA and we have this thing here called Freedom of Speech.

    5. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      are paar & mick the same faceless person?

      1. vector7 profile image58
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Let me guess.. It's a conspiracy right?

        smile

    6. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What gives any human being the "right" to hurt another?  Regardless of whether it's a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Zoroastrian, or Hindu who perpetuates evil upon another - or an individual who does not believe that any God exists - it's wrong.  Maybe if we say that everyone should simply respect their environment and the people in in it regardless of their beliefs, we'll have a better platform for discussion.

      1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
        Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sounds good to me. Do you think you can convince Christians to do that?

        1. 0
          Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I can only change/control myself, unfortunately, not everyone else on the planet.  But, I do spend a great deal of my time trying to make my Christian friends a tad more tolerant and a LOT less vocal with their criticism of the rest of the world.  I am one person, not responsible for all of the suffering of humanity, or all of the behavior of humanity, and certainly NOT responsible for the evangelism or conversion of everyone who shares this spinning ball of dirt with me.  I do my part at every opportunity to be kind to others, and to encourage others around me to be kind as well - no matter what religion/faith they do/do not ascribe to.

          Ultimately, my take on it is that we should ALL be kind to each other and to the planet.  But, I'm not in charge, and very few folks actually listen to me when it comes to any of these things.

          By the way, where from in Canada?  I have an aunt who's been there for forty years (Vancouver Island, BC).  She was a landed immigrant until she gained citizenship last year.   

          wink

          1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
            Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I agree with you. In real life I am the same way. wink I've read some of your hubs and you are a kind person.

            These forums are not real life, however. So people that come to them expect a bit of a fight and some fun. It gets their blood boiling. They can let loose in a way they can not in polite society. The advantage is no one can get up and slap some one.

            There is a lot to learn from honest no holds barred debate. If you are around for a while you learn to hone your skills. You can take that back to the real world. I don't mean how to be cruel or stupid either. I how to stand up for yourself. How to manipulate a conversation. It's a fascinating study in human nature and thought. 

            Some people are just jerks, of course, on all sides. But you can have fun with them too. I do it because frank debate is the way I learn best. You get challenged and you are sometimes forced to think out of the box. Particularly when someone is annoying as hell and you want to jolt them a little, or a lot. wink

            In any case, the title of the question is absurd. No one here is actually hurting anyone. And if people do get hurt then perhaps this is the wrong place for them, or they need to figure out how not to allow themselves to get hurt. That's another of life's lessons we can learn in a place like this and take with us.

            It's all in one's perspective. You can even play with perspectives. wink

            Bottom line is, this is a debate forum. Not reality. And yet, it's a reality you won't see anywhere else but on the net. It's what ever we make of it, as is life. 

            Glad to have your aunt with us! I've lived in Victoria. I love the city and the entire island. But there was a lack of work when I was living there. I am currently living in Ontario where I have spent most of my life. smile

            1. 0
              Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you!  I hope you've even enjoyed a few of them! smile



              Thank goodness!  Otherwise, there'd be a lot of Kung Fu fighting type stuff happening in here, and lots of bruised and battered individuals when it was all over.



              I totally agree with you here, in theory.  And, while it can be fascinating, it can be discouraging and disheartening as well.  People who don't know how to (or choose not to) manipulate a conversation can find this a very tough place to be.   



              GASP!  I've never considered such a thing! (Can you hear the sarcasm there...lol)  While I agree that frank debate is incredibly educational, I always find it amusing when you use the same "logical" statement that someone else has used, substituting a different noun, and their retort is how your statement is completely illogical.  Ah, I see...it's only logical if YOU say it?  How does that work?  I am not familiar with this type of "logic."  The other thing I find amusing is that there is sometimes just no way at all to make a person understand what you're thinking.  Why then, if they don't understand, would a person be SO insistent that they then agree?  Seems counterproductive and a little silly to me.



              I agree completely and totally with this entire statement.  When it starts to "hurt," you need to move on.  Either stop reading and participating, or read and roll your eyes on the other side of the screen.  smile



              Right on! (or Amen for the religiously inclined) wink



              She absolutely LOVES it there.  We're originally from Detroit, and I grew up in part in Northern Michigan.  We're actually considered "South Canada," eh? wink

              1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
                Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "Thank you!  I hope you've even enjoyed a few of them!"

                Of course! wink

                The thing I see too little of is people who know how to debate. There is an art to it. You can get away with saying anything as long as you know how to say it.

                You don't have to be uncouth or loud, The vest insults are the ones you slide in without the person knowing till they really read or think about what you have said.

                A person who has mastered the art can also steer a conversation and play with perspectives to get their point across to the specific person they are addressing. They craft their debate to suit their audience. 

                But again, I've seen very few people on forums like this that are really good at it.

                Part of being good at debate is being able to do it from a third party perspective. Getting outside yourself and being able to watch and monitor the events, making corrections as you go.

                I can't get hurt in these forums because I take nothing personally even if it is intended that way. But I do play what ever game is handed to me. Want a nice civil conversation? I'd love to have one. But if you want to have a flame war, I'm game for that too.

                In fact, to my shame, I like it once in a while. You can get really good at that too. But the secret is not allowing anything to get to you.

                Anyway, forums are addictive entertainment once you get into them. wink 

                We'd be happy to have you in Southern Ontario.  Come on up! wink

            2. luvpassion profile image59
              luvpassionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              These forums are not real life, however. So people that come to them expect a bit of a fight and some fun. It gets their blood boiling. They can let loose in a way they can not in polite society. The advantage is no one can get up and slap some one.

              Something I've been trying to point out to everyone for a while.

              Thanks
              Teri smile

              1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
                Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                My pleasure. wink

    7. Jesus was a hippy profile image61
      Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Religions are the BIGGEST cause of war and bloodshed on the planet.

      They are UNFOUNDED in their beliefs and should therefore be questioned.

      I think that says it all.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And I would listen to a bear with a ducks head because....?

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          ...it makes more sense than a religiously indoctrinated human being. smile

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You quack me up lol

    8. Shahid Bukhari profile image61
      Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Incorrect Belief, Empowers, Satan ...

      The Atheists, and false Religionists, following the Satanic ...
      can thus hurt, fellow humans ... but they can only hurt those, who have abandoned, The Manifest Truth.

      The Cause of all human Warrings, is the belief ... That,
      "What I know, is all there is to Knowledge " ...

      Thus, the Fallacious ones ask others ... with force, if necessary:

      "Follow us, though we be wrong ... for you are also in the Wrong ... but we are Black, or we are White ... So the Yellows and Browns must follow us ... or ... because, we belong to a Superior brand of Humans ... or that we are from among some Chosen people ... or, we are richer ... or we have higher Technologies, with which we can destroy, the entire human "Race"...
      They say so, believing, they were gods, of some kind.

      My Allah Protect all Muslims, from the evil of their kind, in these difficult times.

      1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
        Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes. That's exactly what Christians and  Muslims do. You are too right.

        1. Shahid Bukhari profile image61
          Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, I interrupted the outburst of your Prejudice ... it is obviously rooted in Ignorance.

          My dear ... What you call "Innocent"  Atheists and Heretics ... terrorized by Religion ...
          Want to see them in Action ... ?

          Come ... see, what these criminals do from behind the refuge of Atheism, and Heresy ... also called by the names of Agnosticism, Skepticism, Existentialism, Communism, Capitalism, Zionism and Pragmatism ... etc.. I talk of their action in the 21st century...  Today ... not Medieval times.

          They kill and maim the Youth of Nations, its elders and children, they  widow young women ... they disrupt all other systems, turning its workforces into beggars and rag pickers ... Thus, they abuse the taught restraint of their own Religions ... Murdering, in cold blood ... innocent, and peaceful humans ...

          These so called Saviors of Christianity, and Judaism, of Equality and Freedom ... are Mercenaries, the Proxies of Terrorism ...

          They are the enemies of God, and Humans, alike ... Meaning, these Atheists and Heretics ... are the high flying cowards ... who call the killing of innocents ... a Collateral damage, of military targets bombing actions ...

          Do you Know, the War fought between Capitalist Feudalism ... and the  Samurai, Fascist, and Nazi brand of State Feudalism  ... In Reality, was fought between the Atheists, and Heretics ... it killed more than 60 million innocent humans, during 1939 and 1945 period.

          Do you know, Communism ... the Communist Heretics ... Denying God, and Calling State, the god ... killed another 60 million Dissenters ... Muslims and Christians ... between 1918 and 1948 ... the butchered, were not foreigners, but of their own Civilian population ?

          Now its the turn of Democrat-ism, and Racist Zionism ... lets see ... what they do ... how many they kill, maim, orphan, widow and subdue ... under the Slogans of Freedom, and Equality ... or, if the End, overtakes their Ambition.

          And all the while, these, "Ism'ists" ... Proclaim being the good Samaritans ...  fighting for World Peace, Human Equality and Freedom ...
          What Peace, what Equality ... What Freedom ?

          Atheism ... of these Heretics ... Is essentially an Excuse, for  transgressing all the Divine Limitations ... These Heretics and Atheists ... are the accursed of God, among humans ... they are Heretics and Atheists to all good Muslims, Jews and Christians ...

          Good bye my friend ... Sleep tight.

          1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
            Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Did you forget your medication?  lol.....  I wouldn't shout so loud. I think the men in the white coats are looking for you.

            But before you hurt yourself I suggest you check into the nearest mental hospital. It's for your own good. Really.  wink

            1. Shahid Bukhari profile image61
              Shahid Bukhariposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks for not reading ... just surfing through what I have stated...

              And thanks for telling me, what I should do, for what might be done to me, for stating ...  if I say, what I have to say ...

              And  thanks for being so concerned with my health, and my welfare ...
              telling me, whats good for me, and what could be bad for me.

              Where is the 4th amendment, my friend ... when it comes to me ?

              Good bye and Regards, my friend.

              1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
                Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                4th amendment? I wouldn't know. I'm not American. Are you? After that tirade you wanted me to answer you civilly?  I did read. and I read you think atheist and heretics are the most accursed of god. For that I think you need mental help. There is no god. Not in the way you think.

                You also equated communism with atheism which is absurd and a clear fallacy. Atheism means one thing and one thing only. We lack belief in your god. It means nothing else, and from that word you can not tell me what an atheist believes. Atheism is a stance. Communism is political system. Two different things. You don't even know what an atheist is. Most of what you are talking about is politics, not atheism.

                I'm an atheist and I am not  communist. Do you know what Communism is? Communism did not put down religion because it was atheist, it put down religion because it did not want any competition. please read some history.

                Do you know Nazis are usually Christians?  Even all the American ones are. You have a twisted view of the world. Perhaps it is due to your religion?

                Look, my friend. I agree. The west has been playing in the politics of the Middle East for years and I understand why you resent it. But don't blame atheists unless you are calling all Americans, Dutch, British,  and others atheists. When they were really playing in your pond, atheists were still hiding away in fear of being tortured and murdered. At any rate, I've had nothing to do with that and don't condone what was done. Why condemn me?

                Or are you saying all but Muslims are heretics and atheists? If that is the case, what can anyone say to you? What happened to the Islam that was the most tolerant religion in the western world?  A model for others to look up to?

                You religious people fight amongst yourselves. Leave us poor innocent atheists out of it. lol...

    9. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
      Slarty O'Brianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      So what gives religions the right to hurt innocent heretics and atheists?
      You shove religion down everyone's throat. It's Christianities mandate. Go out and evangelize and look down your noses at those who don't believe. Tell us all about hell and terrorize people with it. Trying  to get it into politics, our public schools, science class.

      And we are not talking about religion, are we? We are talking about Christianity. I don't see many atheists hurting Buddhism. Tell Christianity to keep to itself and there won't be a reason for anyone to hurt it.

    10. chaunatye profile image59
      chaunatyeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Weeelllll....as an atheist I know I have to defend my case to the ends of the earth with most religious people, when in all actually I just want to be able to answer the question: "What religion are you?" with the answer "atheist" and have that be the end of the story. While i don't think that it's right for anyone to say that their beliefs are any better than anyone elses, I have to say that I think religious people bash atheists way more than vice versa.

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The religionists equally have no right to hurt others; they can however express their view point freely.

      2. 69
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think both sides induldge in it unwisely while as human beings they should respect one another.

    11. thebrucebeat profile image60
      thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The First Amendment, which is what gives you the right to evangelize.
      Any further questions?

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Right to evangelize is OK; but is it moral to ridicule and deride the religions? Does it not create bitteness in the society.

        1. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The conflict first arises from the believers need to open their mouth about their religion to those who don't care about their religion in the first place.

          If you are told to back off, but continue coming, then who's actions are moral? roll

        2. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If you don't want to be ridiculed - why push such ridiculous beliefs? This is why you cause so much conflict.

          1. DoubleScorpion profile image84
            DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this



            I have to agree with Mark on this one...If you don't want people laughing or poking fun at you...don't publicly say or do things that others might consider to be silly...
            You know wearing the purple leisure suit to the Black Tie Gala seemed like a right idea to you...but with everyone else wearing the black tuxedos, you tend to stand out...and become the butt of the jokes...smile

    12. christicue profile image80
      christicueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's not because they want to hurt "innocent religions."  It is because they have experienced hurt at the hands of others claiming to be acting in the name of religion.  Therefore their view of religion is based on their experience and they apply their experience to religion as a whole.  It is just like any other prejudice that leads to a stereotype. 

      It is sad, but true, that there are many, many people acting to promote their own purposes, agendas or selves in the name of religion.  This is what gives religion a bad name.  Personally, I love my God, but I don't like the word religion because it implies the wrong things about my faith.

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And for some, they haven't been hurt at all. wink They just see the irrationality of the belief. wink

        1. christicue profile image80
          christicueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That's OK.  They're definitely entitled to their opinion.  For people who don't believe in God to see faith in God as irrational is nothing new.  It's a fact that the Bible backs up and states will be the case.  It is the inevitable consequence of not knowing God. 

          "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."   1 Corinthians 1:18

          "For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength."  1 Corinthians 1:25

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You are quoting scripture to the wrong person little lady.

            I've done the research of religion and Christianity. And, it's a hoax. The scripture was manipulated before it was ever put into the book you read. But, I'm sure you didn't know that. lol

      2. 69
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It is OK

  2. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 5 years ago

    Innocent religions ? Joke of the day or maybe millennium  ?

    1. 0
      jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, skyfire, Paarsurrey is very entertaining. He just want to make people laugh, so comes up with all sort of comedies imaginable!

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think most of the believers are simple and innocent people and need to be respecetd.

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Wow a human being with some integrity!

          Thanks paarsurrey smile same back at ya.

          1. 0
            Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            you know paar isn't 'christian' - he is 'peaceful muslim'

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              And that matters to me why ?

              1. 0
                Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                plenty of christians on HP tell paar to shut up for quoting the Quran

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh ok ,well some people quote the bible
                  some quote the Q'ran
                  and some just blow a whole lotta wind  lol

                  1. 0
                    Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Amen, EK.  Oops, sorry.  For the sake of inclusion and political correctness, I should really say, Right on, EK!

                2. vector7 profile image58
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  "plenty of christians on HP tell paar to shut up for quoting the Quran"

                  Maybe you should quote them rather than tossing around random accusations?

                  smile

                  1. 0
                    Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/55531#post1297584

                    "Paar get this through your THICK HEAD Jesus NEVER EVER SERVED your God Allah, NEVER  so stop your uniformed BULL. Prove it, if Jesus ( may God fogive me) ever served your God Allah SHOW ME WERE IT IS IN THE BIBLE if you cannot then SHUT UP WITH YOUR UNIFORMED DRIBLE. show the passage in the Bible Paar PUT UP OR SHUT UP"


                    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/53917#post1278175
                    "Speak with proof of your words paar or SHUT UP
                    NO PAAR NO PERSON CAME OFF THE CROSS ALIVE SO YOU CAN STOP THIS LIE RIGHT NOW
                    you see Paar I know if Jesus is the TRUE son of God it proves Ialsm is NOT THE TRUE FAITH, so you have to try and discredit Jesus Christ, Mary St Paul and the Church to try and make people belive in Islam, you must CONTINUE TO BE FOOLED BY THE DEVIL, nothing you say or invent can prove to anybody that Jesus did not die on the CROSS therefore Ialam and Muslims are MISTAKED AND FOOLED BY THE DEVIL PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!"

                    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/55394#post1279653
                    "Paar needs to make up his mind!!! And stop opening threads that are false!!! If he believes Jesus is not the son of God then that's his business, but he needs to stop promoting it and pushing it on others!!!"

        2. simeonvisser profile image87
          simeonvisserposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Most of the believers are also blissfully unaware of the details of their religions, which can be rightfully critized.

          1. kephrira profile image61
            kephriraposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, you're right Simeon, but as paarsurrey says religious believers are simple minded people and can't be expected to wrap their simple minds around complex things like the truth.

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Then why would anyone bother playing with them lol



              Oh thats right ,they are trying to impart their great truths~

          2. Eaglekiwi profile image76
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Kinda left that kinda debating style in the school yard.

            He said.
            She said.

          3. 69
            paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            If they do a wrong thing or they have a wrong concept, one may correct them politely and in a civilized manner; mostly human beings welcome such gestures.

          4. vector7 profile image58
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "Most of the believers are also blissfully unaware of the details of their religions, which can be rightfully critized."

            I find that very disturbing you think such a thing. And you must prove I don't know my religion which you haven't and I encourage you to do so.

            You should stick to facts and proof rather than stereotypical accusations which I found you love to use.

            smile

    2. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Agreed. smile

      Religions cannot be innocent, because the behavior is selfish based. lol

      1. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What's selfish about trying to get souls saved from hellfire?
        (I mean, of course, simple Christianity.  Not Catholicism or any other religion.)

        1. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The underlying reason you are doing it is selfish behavior- you're specifically doing it, so YOU can be in favor with whatever said god you believe in. No other reason.

          You want to do it for yourself, not for the so-called benefit of others. But, nice try.

          1. 0
            Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I see that's how you think it is.
            You're wrong about it, of course.  Because you leave out the fact that Christians can and do have a thing called Love in their hearts.
            But okay.  I was just asking.  Thanks for your response.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If this is love you display - you can keep it. sad

              1. 0
                Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I'm well aware that you refuse the Godly Love offered to you, Mark.  How long will you kick against the drawing of the Spirit?

                1. Dave Mathews profile image59
                  Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Brenda: I fully agree with you. People like Mark choose to spit in the face of God mocking Him and those who believe in Him. They have no respect for anyone but themselves.

                  1. Cagsil profile image83
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The assertion of the existence of a god is what is the problem to begin with. wink

                    Edit: Your statement is untrue.

                  2. 0
                    Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi Dave.  You're right.  Except...I don't think it's respect they have for themselves, really.  I think they love themselves, yes....

            2. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hey Brenda, you're still overlooking that the selfish trait of the belief itself- you put yourself before others. Plain and simple...it's the definition of selfish behavior.

              1. 0
                Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No.  If that's how it were, I'd never once even speak the Word to anyone.  I'd keep it all to myself.  But that's not how it is.

                1. Cagsil profile image83
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually, it's your refusal to understand that is actually is. Hence, why Mark and others find your words distasteful. Keep your words about YOUR god to yourself and the conflict ends.

                  1. 0
                    Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I choose to Love you and Mark whether it's received or not.

            3. Woman Of Courage profile image61
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Brenda, Agreed.

        2. 0
          Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          hhmmm, interesting how the catholics & protestants in Ireland like to try and blow each other up.  And then there's the muslim - christian conflicts & others. 
          Religion against religion - not so innocent after all.

    3. Daniel Carter profile image90
      Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Perfectly stated.
      Innocent religions...Impossible...such as...

      Innocent Murderers...

  3. Ohma profile image80
    Ohmaposted 5 years ago

    I think the OP is slightly confused.
    What give religion the right to hurt non believers should be the question.
    The Koran says "Kill the unbelievers" and the Bible says something very similar right?

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think you have not read the Quran; just heard that from somebody or read from some internet site.

      1. 0
        jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "9.5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them"
        See it does not say 'kill', it only say 'slay". May be to give them heaven, I think
        lol

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          uh oh.  So, slay doesn't mean kill?
          Or are you just being sarcastic?

        2. 69
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I give here the verses in the context which you have not read perhaps; some verses preceding and some verses following the verse you quoted:

          [9:1] This is a declaration of complete absolution on the part of Allah and His Messenger from all obligation to the idolaters with whom you had made promises.
          [9:2] So go about in the land for four months, and know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah and that Allah will humiliate the disbelievers.
          [9:3] And this is a proclamation from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage, that Allah is clear of the idolaters, and so is His Messenger. So if you repent, it will be better for you; but if you turn away, then know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah. And give tidings of a painful punishment to those who disbelieve,
          [9:4] Excepting those of the idolaters with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.

          [9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

          [9:6] And if anyone of the idolaters ask protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge.
          [9:7] How can there be a treaty of these idolaters with Allah and His Messenger, except those with whom you entered into a treaty at the Sacred Mosque? So, as long as they stand true to you, stand true to them. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.
          [9:8] How can it be when, if they prevail against you, they would not observe any tie of relationship or covenant in respect of you? They would please you with their mouths, while their hearts refuse, and most of them are perfidious.
          [9:9] They barter the Signs of Allah for a paltry price and turn men away from His way. Evil indeed is that which they do.
          [9:10] They observe not any tie of relationship or covenant in respect of anyone who trusts them. And it is they who are transgressors.

          http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … r.php?ch=9

          It is a very rational and reasonable if you read it.

          What is your objection? Please

          1. 0
            jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "And if anyone of the idolaters ask protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of Allah;"
            So either they convert or get killed?
            Peaceful indeed!

            1. vector7 profile image58
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I'll stick to Jesus..

              I love my enemies too..

              smile

      2. Ohma profile image80
        Ohmaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        KORAN commands to kill infidels:

        Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

        On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

        Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

        Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

        Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:21
        nd shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.


        This is from your peaceful book is it not?
        And the Bible is much more graphic in Dueteronomy 13 so again who is hurting who?

        1. 69
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I give here the first verse quoted by you with the verses in context for everybody to see the truth of the matter:

          [2:92] And when it is said to them: ‘Believe in what Allah has sent down,’ they say: ‘We believe in what has been sent down to us;’ and they disbelieve in what has been sent down after that, yet it is the Truth, fulfilling that which is with them. Say: ‘Why, then, did you attempt to slay the Prophets of Allah before this, if you were believers?’
          [2:93] And Moses came to you with manifest Signs, then you took the calf for worship in his absence and you were transgressors.
          [2:94] And remember the time, when We took a covenant from you and raised high above you the Mount, saying: ‘Hold firmly to what We have given you and hearken;’ they said: ‘We hear and we disobey;’ and their hearts were permeated with the love of the calf because of their disbelief. Say: ‘Evil is that which your faith enjoins on you, if you have any faith!’
          [2:95] Say: ‘If the abode of the Hereafter, with Allah, is solely for you to the exclusion of all other people, then wish for death, if you are truthful.’
          [2:96] But never shall they wish for it, because of what their own hands have sent on before them; and Allah knows the wrongdoers well.
          [2:97] And thou shalt surely find them of all people, the most covetous of life, even more than those who set up equals with God. Every one of them wishes that he may be granted a life of a thousand years, but his being granted such life shall not keep him away from the punishment; and Allah sees all that they do.
          [2:98] Say: ‘Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel — for he it is who has caused it to descend on thy heart by the command of Allah, which fulfils that which precedes it, and is a guidance and glad tidings to the believers —
          [2:99] ‘Whoever is an enemy to Allah, and His angels, and His Messengers, and Gabriel, and Michael, then surely, Allah is an enemy to such disbelievers.’
          [2:100] And surely, We have sent down to thee manifest Signs, and no one disbelieves in them but the disobedient.
          [2:101] What! every time they make a covenant, will a party among them throw it aside? Nay, most of them have no faith.
          [2:102] And now when there has come to them a Messenger from Allah, fulfilling that which is with them, a party of the people to whom the Book was given have thrown the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if they knew it not.
          http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=98
          One can see for oneself that the teachings are very rational and reasonable; there is nothing wrong with them.

          What is your objection to it?

          1. dingdondingdon profile image59
            dingdondingdonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The excerpt says:

            "And surely, We have sent down to thee manifest Signs, and no one disbelieves in them but the disobedient."

            Essentially what it is saying is that only those who don't believe in Allah are the "disobedient", and such people are enemies. How is that rational or reasonable? It is saying exactly what Ohma said, only in a more long-winded way.

          2. Ohma profile image80
            Ohmaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The truth of the matter is that all religions were created by man in an attempt to control others. They are designed intentionally so that a small group of people could maintain control over the thoughts and actions of a much larger group of people.
            In the days when the Bible and the Koran were written superstition and fear were the easiest way to gain that control.
            We have evolved since then and most of us understand that.

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Excellently said Ohma. Couldn't have said better myself. smile big_smile

    2. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, the bible and quoran are equally abusive of non believers. smile

  4. Greek One profile image81
    Greek Oneposted 5 years ago

    The postings of atheists, agnostics, or those of different faiths, do not hurt either me or my religion.

  5. kirstenblog profile image77
    kirstenblogposted 5 years ago

    Ok, simply because I keep seeing this one at the top of the forum list......


    Every time I see the phrase "Innocent Religions" I just fall apart in tears of laughter, funny stuff, you just couldn't make this stuff up!

    1. paradigmsearch profile image89
      paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You are right! That is indeed an oxymoron. smile

    2. vector7 profile image58
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Since when did a "religion" commit any acts?

      I thought people kill people, not guns.. 

      That doesn't apply here though huh?

      wow..

      smile

      1. Beelzedad profile image59
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Then, do we remove religion from the people who would use it to kill others, just like guns? smile

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Beezledad I cant imagine you'd be that thin skinned to let a bunch of wussy ill-informed Christians bother you, who,furthermore believe in nonsense?

          Hmm..me thinks the man doth protest too much wink

          1. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes well, we'd have to forget the last 2000 years of wars and genocides those 'wussy ill-informed Christians' have cause with their 'believe in nonsense' in order for the protests to stop. smile

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              So you are like a Prophet? out to warn the people of ...a revival?

              1. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Huh? What are you talking about?

  6. Greek One profile image81
    Greek Oneposted 5 years ago

    The act of loving yourself is illegal in many states
    smile

    1. paradigmsearch profile image89
      paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I was seen matriculating in public one time.

      1. Greek One profile image81
        Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        you did it on a mat?

        tongue

        1. paradigmsearch profile image89
          paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And they made me wear a funny hat. Apparently it was some kind of initiation or ritual. And now there are government records about it everywhere. I shall never escape from it or live it down…

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            As there should be!
            Our Governments needs to keep a record of all perversion!

            1. paradigmsearch profile image89
              paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I checked out your profile. You are now officially my car guy. smile

              1. earnestshub profile image89
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That's nice, thank you. I don't suppose you found my one religious hub. It still gets hits, but is a long way down the list. smile

      2. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That's a terrible thing to do paradgmsearch!
        I hope you didn't flash your calculus as well! smile

  7. paradigmsearch profile image89
    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

    Cagsil wrote:

        Love for others isn't earned by them, it is displayed in your actions towards them. wink As I said above, I love all of humanity, and it's their individual life I protect, even above my own. wink



    Follow-up:

    Just as I thought; there are a plethora of definitions for both. I’ve decided to not go there... smile

  8. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    The text you quoted proves the nature of your god. It seems to me that you cannot see the nature of a god even when it is written here in your own words on the page right here right now.

    OK, I'm finished trying to explain to you that not believing what you do and being a non believer is not a religion it is called being logical. As my dad used to say, "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

  9. stclairjack profile image80
    stclairjackposted 5 years ago

    the reason that we are all under the mistaken impression that atheists attack the faithfull or that ultra religious nuts atack the atheists is that the conversation is dominated by those elements.

    the silent majority do not subscribe to these methods, they do not treat each other with the level of disrepect so often seen, they instead live thier faith,... novel concept to some.

    preaching the word to the world is best off done through example,... not be screaming how wrong every one else is, but rather in letting your actions demonstrate your faith and the right or wrong of it.

    the only bible that some will ever read may be the life they watch you lead.

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Nice people

      1. stclairjack profile image80
        stclairjackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        the world on the whole is full of nice people,.... some us even enjoy the intelectual debate that doesnt include screaming inults, and playing one group against another.

        we just dont get the press that the west borrow baptist does,... pitty.

  10. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    With regard to the O.P

    Nobody has the right to hurt anyone ,no matter how right they think they are,about any topic.

    To do so ,is nothing more than cowardice!

  11. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago

    Indeed I do understand.

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Okay. smile

  12. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    No Soul nor Spirit

    Oh man thats sad to hear Cags.

    Life just became a whole lot shorter for some people.

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Nope.
      Actually, it helps me value this life.
      Life is short to begin with EK and the time we have is what should be valued, so much so, that we want to create peace on Earth, so life can be extended to the maximum that technology can make it. smile

      1. know one profile image60
        know oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Cagsil, I think you would like this:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQibRZSGREM
        (A little bit of swearing involved...)

        "Isn't this enough. Just this world. Just this beautiful, complex, wonderfully unfathomable natural world..."

        smile

  13. pisean282311 profile image58
    pisean282311posted 5 years ago

    Innocent Religion?...well it is like Dark Afternoon or Wet Fire ...anyways no one has right to hurt any one and so religion should stop ridiculing science which gave all humans most of things which it uses in day to day life , religious people should stop hurting other religious people by stating their way or their book is only thing in the world, religious people should stop hurting fellow religion people by stating that it is only they who understand their book while other sect of same religion doesnot understand their book...when religious people would start keeping their god and their way as personal thing and in private domain , not only world would become better place but they would find no one is hurting them anymore...

  14. Sanyiel profile image60
    Sanyielposted 5 years ago

    Freedom of speech gives Atheists the right to say what they want about "innocent" religions. They don't necessarily say these things to hurt people of those religions, though I won't deny that there are Atheists who set out with the intent to upset people.

  15. 60
    raxxsachposted 5 years ago

    What is a religion ,religion is just a path or a mean which leads us to an end which can be God or Allah or whatever you may say.Religion teaches us tolerance and takes a person away from emotions like being hurt or pleased.A person who has followed and understood the true meaning of religion will regard atheism as just another belief system and his happiness or unhappiness will never be dependent on these things.

  16. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    You having a discussion or is this promotion like perhaps your religion.

  17. weseppers profile image59
    weseppersposted 5 years ago

    I think they are only sharing their ideas here.

  18. Midianite profile image60
    Midianiteposted 5 years ago

    Personally, being an atheist, I view many religious people (primarily Christians) as being ignorant - I may be right, I may be wrong, it's just my view. It is this 'ignorance' that (in my case) causes me to get shitty with christian people when they talk about Christian stuff.

    1. Apostle Jack profile image60
      Apostle Jackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The spirituality of our existence is not an ignorant matter except to does that don't know the definition.Atheists fit the mole perfectly .They can't explain Celestial spirituality,the supernatural,nor the intellect of the spirit within us.
      They give silly and foolish answers to cover up their ignorance of how we exist in this world.They can't see the forest for the trees,so how can they call a person ignorant that have already been through the forest.

      1. Beelzedad profile image59
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And, you can explain all those things? lol

  19. superwags profile image80
    superwagsposted 5 years ago

    The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      They are indistinguishable from one another. smile

      1. Apostle Jack profile image60
        Apostle Jackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Only to those that don't know the definition nor the spirituality of it.It makes Atheists one of those that walk without looking.

      2. 0
        BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That is not true.
        I often turn invisible at work and I steal lunches but I think I do exist.

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol

  20. wizbitz profile image75
    wizbitzposted 5 years ago

    How about this for the atheist:

    I am not saying atheist must believe God, that would be wrong. However, if an atheist says I must not believe God, wouldn't it be wrong too?

    Found this about Blaise Pascal, and I hope this would help you all

    The Argument of Wager by Blaise Pascal
       
        * If I wager for and God is — infinite gain;
        * If I wager for and God is not — no loss.
        * If I wager against and God is — infinite loss;
        * If I wager against and God is not — neither loss nor gain.

    1. 0
      BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      LOL.

      He is considered a coward by most Atheists since he decided to believe even though he really didn't.

      He put a wager on the existence of God.
      I think the religious would find that a wee bit insulting?

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No. it seems like a pretty safe stand. Most agnostics would agree with him, I would think. He's probably voicing the opinion 80% of american christianity has on the topic. The fundamentalists are the only ones he would irritate and, really, is there anything that doesn't irritate them?

        1. 0
          BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh I see, like when I was is school and I would get in trouble I would be like,
          "Please God, please get me out of this and I will know you definitely exist and I won't question the bible anymore..."

          God would be like "Shut it! You are getting detention" sad

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I honestly wouldn't know, but wow. If God was talking to you in school when you were a kid you're special. smile

            1. 0
              BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              It was the drugs the Nuns put in my food sad

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That would explain why all the catholic girls that ended up at my boarding school wanted to go back to theirs. Hmm. I feel somehow cheated by my education now.

    2. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Pascal's argument has been refuted time and again, have you not read the many refutations and critiques?

      There are dozens of them. smile

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What kind of a rebuttal is that? There is nothing wrong with the argument. It's covering all bases. Rather cheesy to base a faith on, but there's no law against that, I wouldn't think. If it works for him, what business is it of yours? smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Back to trolling. Oh well. This is why your religion causes so many wars. sad

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            What? Does every post you disagree with equate to religion? Sheesh. You have a one track mind. smile

        2. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, I do understand you pretend to think critically and your open mind has thoroughly "covered all the bases" however Pascal's wager is a tired argument refuted by many. Believers such as yourself aren't able to go beyond your indoctrination to realize that. smile

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Don't be ridiculous. If it works for him. It works for him. Period. Not everyone's mind works the same. Thankfully. smile

            1. Beelzedad profile image59
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Not everyone's mind works at all. smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                And some people waste their minds with hate and vengeance. I don't understand what could make people be that way. It seems a waste of a pretty good chance at life. But hey, that's the great thing about freedom. You don't have to justify yourself to anyone. smile

                1. Beelzedad profile image59
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  That's why they have religions, so those people can be righteous in their hatred and vengeance.
                  smile

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    What causes it in those without religion? Why do some of the atheists here have so much hatred and vengeance?

  21. wizbitz profile image75
    wizbitzposted 5 years ago

    ^ ^, but his wager has make sense

    1. 0
      BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      to someone who is willing to live a lie, yes

      1. wizbitz profile image75
        wizbitzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        ^ ^, your attacking the person not the argument. However I do not want to have any debate with anyone. If you believe you are living in the truth, that's fine end of story.

        1. 0
          BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Not attacking anyone/anything yet!
          Maybe after I get to know them better.

          Just pondering.
          If I was GOD, I would certainly attack Pascal!
          Finding loopholes to get to heaven???
          Shocking!

          By since I am not God, because I exist and he doesn't, I can't do anything about the slippery coward.

          Not debating either, merely pondering.

          Tonight Pascal's ghost could wake me up and be like "What did you call me?" but if I died I would make it to heaven based on average score. I believed most of my life (95%), I was baptised, confirmed and went to confession ( 100%).  I feel guilty about everything, even typing this. (100%)
          If my boss finds out I am goofing off I will pray not to get in trouble (80%)

          Hmm, I prefer my loophole

          1. wizbitz profile image75
            wizbitzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            ^ ^, I believe you don't go to heaven by average score, you might want to know about the "cross" and why it is necessary.

            Pascal is just saying that if he was wrong of believing that there is a creator and all the atheists was right, he has lost nothing.
            However if Pascal was right and the atheist was wrong, the atheist has taken a huge gamble there.
            You see if Pascal dies (well I think he is already correct me if I am wrong) and there's no such thing as heaven and all that it is, is nothing...it means nothing. He had lost nothing.
            However if the atheist dies and heaven and "hell" ,is real...

            ^ ^, that's all

            It's always a choice...

            re-posting this, and have a nice day:

            The Argument of Wager by Blaise Pascal
               
                * If I wager for and God is — infinite gain;
                * If I wager for and God is not — no loss.
                * If I wager against and God is — infinite loss;
                * If I wager against and God is not — neither loss nor gain.

            ...Maybe Blaise Pascal was a coward, but his coward thoughts made me think.

            1. 0
              BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Anyway, if there god, I wager Pascal is in hell!
              Now if only there was some way of proving it.

            2. Freewas profile image60
              Freewasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Pascal is making a lot of assumptions here...

                  * If I wager for and God is — infinite gain; - assumption!
                  * If I wager for and God is not — no loss. - assumption!
                  * If I wager against and God is — infinite loss; - assumption!
                  * If I wager against and God is not — neither loss nor gain. - assumption!


              Pascal is assuming, for example, that God does not forgive the unbeliever, there is no penalty to believing in the wrong God (e.g. Allah, or Bhaal, or whatever), or even that he will go to heaven for using such a dubious and faithless method for choosing to believe in God.

              This argument is pretty rubbish.

              1. 0
                BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "This argument is pretty rubbish"

                LOL Couldn't have said it better!

  22. tritrain profile image78
    tritrainposted 5 years ago

    One could also ask, "what gives religions the right to hurt innocent people"?

    There are plenty of examples of people pushing their beliefs on others or harming other people on behalf of a religion.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That is a valid point.

      Im a Christian and even some Christians have annoyed me with there 'God took the day off and put me in charge' kinda attitude.

      I look at it as a human condition wink

    2. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      that sounds more accurate than the OP

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The religionists equally have no right to hurt others; they can however express their view point freely.

  23. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    You want to warn others ,do you not? of the lies out there .

    Thats what a Prophet does.

    Beezledad
    Yes well, we'd have to forget the last 2000 years of wars and genocides those 'wussy ill-informed Christians' have cause with their 'believe in nonsense' in order for the protests to stop

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      So, you haven't read the bible and you don't know what a prophet is. Yikes!

      roll

  24. AncientBlueAngelC profile image60
    AncientBlueAngelCposted 5 years ago

    Well,as to the "Proof" that God exists,He must! Because I exist! In this light it must be realized that the spiritual intent of this question in The Bible, is a Trick question. Each Human Being is, in essence, God in Human form. But secular religious dogma has obscured this message, and by doing so, has kept the whole World in darkness.All religions have been twisted to serve the purposes of the ruling authorities since the begining. Used as away to command the docile underlings into wars and self-disenfranchisement, religions have become, as in Yeshua's(Jesus') Time, a "Synagogue of Satan!" these ones well know of this Truth, but lock it away in guarded vaults, and attempt to keep even the chosen ones from knowing the Truth!
       Now this is not to say that ALL RELIGIONS are BAD!
       But to put you back on track as to what the "Orignal" purpose of the writing of Any of the Holy Books was to bring a person to the awareness of their own god-like power, and the responsibilty for that power. This is what Yeshua came to prophesy. This Good News of The Kingdom of Heaven, hidden inside the souls of All Human Beings!
       Now this is not to say that Their is NOT an All Powerful, Omni-present,omin-sentient BEING.But to ACCENTUATE that point! We are, This All Loving,Humble and Sweet BEING'S,children. Made in GOD'S Spiritual Image in mimature.Made To be Caretakers of Life,This BEINGNESS has endowed Us with Supernatural Wisdom,And a Localized portion of This BEING'S own power to accomplish this task. This is what Jesus was trying to give to the world! It is as simple as that!...God Bless You all,,,ABAC,

    1. Druid Dude profile image60
      Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's not a trick. It's a logic puzzle...like a very complicated rubic's cube. You have to have "X" knowledge to understand what you have so adequately stated. We are god, and God is US. always has been. Problem is, is that Jesus said that right out, unequivocably, yet, millions of people lookat those very words, but, oddly, can't see'em. Must be that higher power "Confounding their wisdom". Can't say...no longer care, all I know is, that is exactly what it says, yet, not even mainstream christians seem to understand it.

      1. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Please point me to the Scriptures where Jesus "unequivocally" said we are "god" and "God is US".   

        Correction---point me to the Scriptures which you THINK Jesus says that.

        1. Druid Dude profile image60
          Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ready Brenda? John 10:34 to 10:35 "Jesus answered them, saying Is it not written in your law, I said, You are Gods? (Notice, there is no punctuation to indicate that God owns or posesses us) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken.... and it is his comment to being accused of blasphemy for calling himself the son of God. In short, he is saying "ridiculous, you are all gods, so how am I bein' bad, here? Anyone?

          1. 0
            Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Again, I said to prove it unequivocally states that.   This does not!
            Those verses are referring to Psalm 82, where the Judges are referred to as "gods" (mighty men, judges, those who are supposedly authorized by God to be His representatives).....and Jesus uses that concept to show that His statements of being the Son of God and being "one" with the Father, are not such an outlandish claim.   He's basically using their own egotistical interpretation against them, in defense of Himself.

            I like especially a couple of verses following that reference---Psalm 82: 6 and 7:

            "I have said, 'Ye are gods;  and all of you are children of the Most High'.

            But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

            I've always said that God gave us common sense, and the opportunity to have Spiritual sense.   Well, common sense AND Spiritual sense tells us that humans are not God, nor are we really "gods", even, though many would certainly like to claim that status, and many others would like to give that status to some others!   

            Yep, we shall die as the humans that we are, and fall like the humans we are.  Physical death will claim us, if the Lord doesn't return before we die.




            I dunno if you'll even see this reply;  it's been several days.....and I didn't see your post 'til now.  But I found it interesting.  Especially interesting that anyone would take that concept to literally mean a human can be God or a "god".
            TBN became notorious for perpetuating that erroneous message a few years back.  I dunno if it was because Paul Crouch actually erred, or if people just took his interpretation wrong.

            1. 69
              paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus also died a natural and peaceful death, like humans die, and is buried in Sirnagar, Kashmir,India.
              Jesus is neither a son of god nor a god.

              1. superwags profile image80
                superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Jesus is buried in Srinagar?! This is a new one! How come?

                1. Greek One profile image81
                  Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  because he evidently got up from near death and traveled to India to escape the Romans and open up a taco stand.. havem't you been reading Paar's posts over the last year?

                  1. superwags profile image80
                    superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Intermitently, he posts about 20 a day - they're hard to keep up with. You never know, it must only be 4-5000 miles across an enormous mountain range. I've seen that Raphael painting, he's in shocking shape, but a gruelling march to northern India could still have been on the cards.

                    I bet they sell a few postcards and chaats outside of that place to gullible yanks!

                2. 69
                  paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Just please google for "Jesus in India", and you will get to know.

                  1. superwags profile image80
                    superwagsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    You're kidding, right? I have seen absolutely zero evidence to support that at all.

                    I bet there's a few Kashmiri hoteliers and postcard-wallas laughing all the way to their respective banks.

                    Did he make this 4-5,000 mile journey whilst alive or dead? Sounds a little like you should employ Occam's Razor to this hypothesis...

            2. Druid Dude profile image60
              Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I disagree, for it is addressed to whom the scriptures came, and he is speaking of the old testament scriptures, not the new, and those scriptures came unto the children of Israel by way of the messengers of God, I do not claim that this is the conventional christian interpretation. Take it, or leave it. Not proseletyzing. Do you know anything of the Cabbala?

  25. 69
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    "I really don't see what gives non-believers the right to criticize and verbally hurt innocent religions who want to do nothing but help spread peace, love, and do charity work for the poor."

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this
  26. 69
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    The atheists and the believers both should respect one another; that makes them good human beings; they should not hurt one another for nothing.

    1. aka-dj profile image80
      aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Reviving. Reviving.
      Gotta keep in people's face all the time. lol

    2. 69
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this
  27. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Brenda Durham wrote ...

      I like especially a couple of verses following that reference---Psalm 82: 6 and 7:

    "I have said, 'Ye are gods;  and all of you are children of the Most High'.

    But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."


    = = = =

      ME
      Those have gotta be some of my favorites also.

      When I read them I hear  ...  Ye are Gods ...
    (who are in human form)  But your human form shall die; just like everyone else even the kings and princes.

       And then , ... ??????????

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Game Over. lol lol

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        We agree to disagree     ?   !

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't care what you believe, and certainly do not expect you to change your mind. If your religion did not cause so many conflicts and teach such awful behavior - I wouldn't even have an opinion on how silly it is to think you will live for eternity.

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Does ALL  religions belong to me?

               If so ?    Where is my check book?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No - you are the unpaid salesman. Fantastic MLM setup. None of the sheeple even understand what they are doing because they get to live forever with the Super Daddy, no matter how rough their real life was. Eyes on the Prize Jerami. Eyes on the prize. sad

  28. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Please define the differences

      IS     was     and   going to be

      In my mind they are all still doing their thing!

      ARE, still IS  ...   was, still IS   was,   and  going to be, still  IS  going to be!


       So ...   all of it  IS!

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry you do not understand physics and the natural world Jerami, but a forum thread like this is probably not the best place to learn either.

      I would appreciate it if you showed me the courtesy of properly formatting your responses to facilitate easier understanding and communication. I realize that would be a bit too much like "treating people as you wish to be treated yourself" for a Christian to want to do, but still.......

      This is why your religion causes so many wars. sad

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        YEP   ....    I hear YA

            I would if I  could/wanted to     

            Guess I cain't/won't.

            Good Night  it's 1 :09 here.

            I'll look up formating in a book tomorrow.    and see what I can do,  just for you.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No - I got it. I know you are not interested in showing me the courtesy of making your posts easier to read.

          I understand. Yet you wish me to treat you courteously? This is why your religion causes so many conflicts Jerami. You say you want to be treated the way you treat others - yet when they do that - you get all upset. sad

          Don't let the bed bugs bite.

          1. Druid Dude profile image60
            Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            COOOOL. Not

  29. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Mark Knowles wrote:
    No - I got it. I know you are not interested in showing me the courtesy of making your posts easier to read.

    I understand. Yet you wish me to treat you courteously? This is why your religion causes so many conflicts Jerami. You say you want to be treated the way you treat others - yet when they do that - you get all upset.

    Don't let the bed bugs bite.

    = = = =
    Druid Dude   wrote
            COOOOL. Not


    - - -  -   -   - = "s


       Some people should look at their past  "posts"  before throwing stones.
        They  just might be living in a glass house ?

  30. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    What gives atheists the right to hurt innocent religions?


    All I see is you trying to hurt truth wherever you see it.

    Fortunately as these threads show clearly, no one takes you seriously. smile

  31. christicue profile image80
    christicueposted 5 years ago

    I'm sorry to hear that you think that.  I'm sure I don't need to point out that in today's world anyone can take any topic and spin it the way they want to.  With the information being not only readily avaiable, but also, in many instances slanted or even untrue because the person putting up the information was misinformed or biased, the internet can be a dangerous place. 

    As much as I'd love to tell you all about how God has acted in my life in a real and tangible way and changed my heart, I know this would be a fruitless endeavor.  I wish you the best of luck, but my one request to you is that you consider (or maybe reconsider if you have already considered it) that what you now know may not be all that there is to know...and that it is possible when we don't understand something to think that it is foolishness or crazy madness and it won't make any sense to us at all. 

    If I were an elementary math student and was introduced to calculus it would not make any sense to me.  I wouldn't even able to connect my current understanding of math with the calculus that was being presented to me because it is so different from and beyond my current understanding.  The only way I would really be able to understand it would be to want to understand it.  If I resisted and refused because I didn't like the way it looked then I would be stuck in my limited understanding of math forever.

 
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