Mick Menous wrote:
So, my main point is that any non-believer who has nothing nice to say about religions, don't say anything at all. It's time to stop. Let's show some tolerance. Is that so much to ask?
I think the Atheists should listen to this sane piece of advice.
Below you should write
I am Osama bin laden, a peaceful Muslim!!
or I am Scott Roeder, a peaceful christian!!
And stuff that into this 'intolerant' atheists mouth!
Just a small suggestion to make them tolerant!
is mick your sockpuppet, paar?
Paar: last I recall, the christians/catholics kept telling you to shut up for quoting from the Quran. You why are you against the atheists?
Stop trying to convert CHILDREN to your belief when they are at an age where they will believe anything told to them by an adult.
I am not tolerant of religions which are capable of breeding hatred amongst people.
Teaching of any religion as true should be illegal unless it can be proven.
Should we then have to stop teaching evolution in public schools?
No because the theory of evolution is VERIFIABLE FACT you halfwit.
Anyone with half a brain can see that.
Is Richard Dawkins a halfwit? He is kind of the "leading authority of atheism and evolution and even he says "Evolution just makes the most sense to me."
"Dawkins has consistently been sceptical about non-adaptive processes in evolution (such as spandrels, described by Gould and Lewontin) and about selection at levels "above" that of the gene."
In a December 2004 interview with American journalist Bill Moyers, Dawkins said that "among the things that science does know, evolution is about as certain as anything we know".
Being "certain" about something is not the same as it being a fact. There are too many holes in evolution and too many unanswered questions. Even the expert of modern evolution can admit that.
And if it's a verifiable fact, how about we drop the "theory" part. We don't have the "theory" of gravity or the 1st "theory" of thermodynamics do we? Why not? Because enough scientists have agreed that they are no longer theories and are facts.
We still have some kinks to work out in evolution before it is a scientific law. It is interesting how many people will take evolution, that has not yet been proven by the scientific community, and call it a "fact" but then hammer a Christian for doing the same thing with God.
A strong belief does not make a fact.
I will not call you a halfwit, as I don't see how it contributes to the discussion.
Who gives a crap what richard dawkins says? Cant you think for yourself instead of having to listen to other people?
Make up your OWN mind. Look at the facts yourself instead of being a sheep and taking everyones word for it.
Gravity is a theory. DOes that mean it isnt a fact? Do you even know what a scientific theory is? I take it you dont judging by your statement. It is not a layman theory. It is very different.
"A strong belief does not make fact"
No it does not I agree 100% so on that basis you agree that god is not a fact and you have no reason to believe in any god.
Genes mutate. Mutations cause changes. We KNOW for FACT that this happens. That is all we need to KNOW that species EVOLVE.
If you hadn't noticed, evolved means changed. If you are denying that genetic mutations change a lifeform then there is clearly something wrong with you.
It couldnt be any more basic. Genes change, therefore they EVOLVE.
Yeah - this would be why your religion causes so many conflicts. Kinks?
I hear what you are saying and I have no problems with evolution. It is a valid thought process. However, it has not yet been completely proven, that was my point.
@Mark, what is wrong with debating an issue? We arent even talking about religion, we are talking about evolution. Even though I don't agree with "Jesus was a hippy" I have no desire to hurt him or cause harm to him because of his unbelief. And I hope he doesn't have the desire to harm me. And if he did, that would have nothing to do with my religion, but rather his belief system, or lack of a belief system.
Healthy debate is fine and doesn't always have to lead to conflict.
"it has not yet been completely proven"
Genetic mutations have been observed. That is proof in itself. It has been seen to have happened.
As for the extensive fossil collections we have all around the world, (although they are not direct proof as such) they do fit in exaclty with what we would expect to see should species evolve as the theory of evolution explains.
Every fossil we find fits into the theory of evolution. There is no other mechanism available for the diversity of life we have on this planet other then evolution.
Not only is evolution the best physical explanation, it is the ONLY explanation that can be verified.
@Jesus was a hippy- all valid points and I dont have anu issue with all of them. I still think there is some discrepecies in evolution and will simply eagerly wait to learn more information.
And just for the record, I do not have a problem with evolution. I am a Christian that can accept evolution as a definite possibility. In fact, a lot of Christians are open about evolution being "the way" we came to be. Evolution does not discredit the Bible, it only discredits the creationists belief in a young earth.
and to respond to your previous statement about me thinking for myself; I do think for myself. I am also just humble enough to realize I don't have the capacity nor the knowledge to studt these things, so I look to people who have studied them, from both perspectives and then develop my beliefs from what I can wrap my brain around.
In regards to evolution and the Bible here is a link to a fascinating article that explains how evolution and the Bible account of Genesis can both be right. It was written by a Jewish physicist that has a lot of background and knowledge of both the Bible and evolution. I find it very well written and offers a great perspective.
"I still think there is some discrepecies in evolution"
Evolution does not discredit the bible? It certainly does. Dont you remember the part about adam and eve? Evolution craps all over that since it says we evolved from apes.
I have yet to read your link, but I shall give it a few minutes
Having looked at the link provided, I am not suprised to say that it contains nothing but the same old arguments regarding six days not really being 6 days and some convoluted explanation as to how 6 days is really billions of year.
As for adam and eve not evolving from apes, he didnt touch that one.
Attacking scientific knowledge is not healthy when it is don to promote religious garbage Victor. Thank goodness you can no longer burn us at the stake.
This is why your religion has caused 2,000 years of wars and to this day causes conflict.
You don't care though - do you?
What holes? Who are those experts, exactly?
Yes, just like all scientists agree evolution is a fact, Dawkins included.
What kinks, exactly?
Can you show us that the scientific community has not accepted evolution as fact? Please do.
You're on spamming spree today, aren't you ? Do you know how many threads you created within last 15 minutes just to quote another person ?
What happened to 'i'm ahamadi peaceful muslim thingy' ? Lost it due to too much forum heat or sarcastic cells are jumping high to tease Christians ?
Of course, you think that. Why wouldn't you?
Atheists hurt your credibility. They make you think. You don't want to think. What you want atheists to do is listen to you. So do all of your ilk.
When religious people stop trying to convert me, then I will keep my opinions to myself. Until then, I will continue to slam their ideas and opinions. They have brought it on themselves. I have had a gut full of people trying to convert me!
Another thing. In the 50s and 60s, it was considered impolite and rude to others to voice one's religious beliefs in company because one might offend others. Well, it does offend others. And while that continues, I will also continue to express my atheism publicly. When religious people stop expressing their 'beliefs' publicly, then I will stop writing about it publicly.
being an athiest , i have every right to express myself to believers. i don't believe in god or religion , so i want others who have chosen to believe to have a different opinion to look at. religion in itself makes no sense so why shouldn't a person that cares about humanity try to get others away from something that throughout history has done as much damage as good, if not more. religion was forced on us for centuries and still is in many places but when an athiest says something, were considered to be bad, yup that makes sense.
Yes, you have a right to express yourself but with reasonable and rational arguments; but atheists usually resort to ridicule and derision; that is not needed and is inhuman.
now that's funny. i have seen more insults on here by religious people then anyone else. my arguements are always reasonable and rational , i'm not ignorant unless the person decides to be rude first. though there is nothing inhuman about ridicule, humans do it all the time, religion has pushed, forced and lied it's way into peoples lives for thousands of years. changing when the times suit it. i have no problem with religion, to each their own but your statement is like the pot calling the kettle black.
"yourself but with reasonable and rational arguments"
Religion-reasonable? rational? You must be joking!
How come atheism is rational and reasonable? Please prove it.
You don't even recognize reasonable and rational statements. That is where the problem exists.
We usually point out the abject nonsense in your religion in order for you to see just how ridiculous your beliefs are...then you become offended by sheer reality.
No disrespect to you, but we have pointed out over and over again that belief in imaginary beings is absurd. That's not ridicule, it's simply a fact.
I agree that belief in imaginary things is incorrect.
I think atheism is one such imaginary thing? It has no basis. If it is not imaginary and is real; please prove it; without any rididcule and derision.
Oh! You thought atheism is like your religion where people worship a deity or nonexistence of a deity or something like that?
Or have you no faculties of understanding that you can't even understand the basic things like verb, noun and all?
Your god is imaginary being- a concept invented by man.
What believers are doing is existence of a deity- a superhuman thing supposed to create all the world.
Atheism in its broadest sense is the ABSENCE of any such beliefs.
No one does not know what this god thing is, then how anybody can believe in the existence of an unknown thing? All everybody got is some claims based on there imaginations, and some irrational explanations to satisfy their emotional needs!
I don't agree with you; the Creator-God Himself told of Him to the truthful and finest people on earth that He did exist; otherwise they would have not talked about Him.
Yes, Yes the Creator.
It was Zeus? No, no it was Allah,em! no It was Jehovah
No, it is Krishna em! wait it was Zoroaster?
Let me think, it was Amenhotep
No? Then surely it is Jupiter or Huitzilopochtli.
They all talked to the finest Barbarians available!
Looks like I am untruthful and dishonest person because no one from upstairs or downstairs for that matter told me anything.
How sad. No God for me. No religion. Actually for centuries religion was the major stopping plug for any leakage of any unusual and creative ideas that human beings tried to put to practice and...
That was the result:
I second your thoughts on religion. It seems to me, (an ex-born again christian) that it has been trying to impair science, medicine and other sciences for a very long time, and it continues today. Women all around the world who still suffer the remnants of these beliefs in many ways daily. You made a good point. No religion for me either, I did what I do, I dug in to it deeply but unlike some, came up for air. It is all a load of old cobblers in my opinion.
Earnst, I am sorry but I simply must ask you, were you unborn in some fashion? (ex-born again, thats' gotta make you some sort of zombie or vampire! ROFL)
he is an alien from another planet with a very colourful parrot on his shoulder
ah, well thats alright then, panic over!
Zombie is real close! In my early twenties, I stupidly shared an office and a business with a religious fanatic.
He was an evangelistic Baptist who displayed a very moral profile, tithing all his spare money at the end of each month, and keeping track of it on a huge short wave radio. I was very impressed at first. Long story short on him was he shot through with half a million of his churches old folks home fund.
I was indoctrinated by him daily for months in the car, at the office until finally I became a born again christian. I studied very hard in his extensive religious library and did a full time 2 year bible study in Hebrew Greek and English. (the Hebrew and Greek being translated from many books from the library in his home)
I then became a foundation member of the worldwide christian businessman's committee and got deeply in to the dead sea scrolls which I saw in the presence of Clifford Wilson (also a member) and the head of the institute of Archeology at that time.
He is a devout born again christian as well.
Too long story short, I got so interested that I educated my way back to sanity.
That is quite a tale! Funny how being eager to educate oneself is a sure path to sanity. Also funny that someone who has had the chance to read from the dead sea scrolls and with the level of education you have is so easily dismissed (I guess not everyone is eager to be edumacated, doh!)
It has been a very interesting road indeed. I maintain a strong interest in psychology and the brain till this day, so indirectly, I guess it helped me to get serious about learning about myself and others. The time I spent in business was also an education in itself about people especially. It's funny but when we learn about people everyones life is interesting. I would love to know more about many people here on hubpages, and usually research their hubs. Someone once said, "Say what you will you can but say who you are" or it may have been what you are, anyway I believe people expose themselves in their writing, so reading a few hubs can produce a fairly good picture of the person and their beliefs, structures etc sometimes.
Well don't go reading my hubs then!
*shudders to think what you would get from reading them*
I have already seen your profile and your work, you have nothing to hide, all good there!
I am one of your many followers.
So you already know how much of a weirdo I am then
Yep! I'm afraid so! No where to hide here. I do need to spend some time reading your hubs............. It is getting harder to read all the articles and stories I would like to as I now have many to read after two years. The replies take more time to answer since I wrote so many hubs too. I will get back soon though! I like to take my time when I read.
That is amazing you got to see the dead sea scrols? So wnat is your take on them? Do you not believe they are what they say they are? Or do you think they were just interesting poems that were givine a false divinity?
I am not attacking, but rather asking from an inquisitive stand from someone who actually got to look at them and study them first hands.
I cant give you an honest answer on that, other than to say I was overwhelmed by being in the presence of such an important historical documents and with someone who understood them.
I have a good memory but honestly, I lose information quickly when I lose interest in it's meaning. I remember the impact of seeing something so revered from the ancient world, and that I felt it was more support for my religious beliefs at the time. I was a young man then, and frankly I was pretty gob-smacked at the time!
I was still as ignorant as bat droppings in my early twenties. I had already made a heap of money by then, but although I had religious education, I knew little of most religions, nothing about Muslims and the same for christianity. When I later studied The quoran I found the same psychotic hate as written in the OT.
I did not even know about psychosis at that time.
I was very fortunate to have good people working for me and consequently had time and money to spare. I had a really weird childhood which left me with a fair bit of psychological baggage, so I went in to long term therapy with a renown Jungian psychologist.
I did the same intense study of psychology I did with christianity culminating in me buying everything he and all the post Jungian writers I could find had written. I am still studying it today and it has allowed me to find my path in life by seeing the difference between loving oneself and living in fear of the invisible entity.
Same thing happened to my husband - he was a devout Christian as a teenager, until he sat down and started reading the Bible from cover to cover. That cured him.
"Too long story short, I got so interested that I educated my way back to sanity."
Couldn't have put it better myself. Exactly, my story. There comes a point in the bible and in any religion, where if you 'study diligently to show yourself approved, you realized it's all a load of hogwash.
ok so paar when you say bible is not true book or jesus was not god or atheist have mental disorder or paul was crook and liar , you are being tolerant....all these have been your words on hubpages ...this is called tolerant than stating that your god doesnot exist or your book is false or you believe is imaginary god becomes in tolerant?
maybe paar's converted to become christian? Has obviously forgotten that he got hassled by the christians
eg a christian said he heard satan whispering after paar started thread ...http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/41477
Pisean - I think you are somewhat missing the point, they want other to be tolerant of them, not to have to be tolerant of others themselves.
It's hard to be tolerant of a religion that isn't tolerant of people who don't belong to the afore-mentioned religion. This is, of course, a generalisation. Not all members of the religion in question are intolerant of people who don't belong to it, but when you get people like Terry Jones, then you're just asking to be hated even if you disapprove of him and what he does.
The Atheists are disturbed people; if they would have been sure of themselves they would have allowed others to have their free will which they want for themselves. Their resort to ridicule and derision, which they so often do, exposes them to be intolerant people; not a responsible people.
Please be tolerant for the peace of the world.
wow how tolerant you are calling atheist mental disease , disturbed , confused...guess religion calls this respecting other
I'm not seeing how "atheists are disturbed" and "please be tolerant" go together.
@Paarsurrey. Whatever the illness is that makes people see things back to front, you obviously have it.
As explained numerous times on this page, we're beginning to speak up after years of having to put up with unsolicited indoctrination from Christians!
Unfortunately, you are pretty much all correct when it comes to your assessments of the typical Christian. It is sad to me, but if Christians would just feed homeless, care for the sick, lead by example, help their neighbors and enemy's then none of this would be happening.
Christians don't realize that when they spew their hate and judgement, they aren't helping. In fact, all they are doing is giving Mark Knowles more material for his next hub. He has enough material to write hubs for about 20 years and he is well on his way to doing it.
If Christians would just do as Jesus taught us then even Mark Knowles would be writing hubs like "Christians- kind of wierd, but a neat group of people." or "I don't buy into this Christianity thing but they sure do some neat things for the world."
Jesus NEVER once in the entire Bible spoke harshly to a non-believer. In fact, He used the Greek word for "hell" 13 times. Never was it directed to a non-believer. Every single time Jesus spoke of hell, or used harsh language hHe was speaking directly to the "religious leaders" of the day. The so-called "experts." He warned them that "they" were the ones who were wrong and they were the one's who needed to be worried about going to hell.
Funny how that is exactly what I see so many of my Christian brothers and sisters doing today. It's like they didn't even read what Jesus was saying.
All I can say to all of you is that I apologize that you have had so many bad experiences with Christians that you are so motivated to speak poorly of them and the God we are supposed to be representing. I am sorry we have not doner a better job of being our Father's children so the worst attitude you could have would be one of indifference, rather than the anger you often have. I am sorry.
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