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REDUX - Roadblock to Theism

  1. 0
    just_curiousposted 5 years ago

    Looking for help here people.  Everyone went off topic on the last thread.  The question of the OP is DO YOU THINK GOD EVOLVED FROM SOMETHING. Sheesh.

    We can't conclude how the universe was created. I would like to know CHRISTIAN'S  thoughts on the essence of God.  I never thought about anything before the beginning of our universe. It never occurred to me, but the more I think about it, it only seems logical, if some sentient hand was the catalyst for what we perceive as reality, God must have evolved from something.

    He could not be eternal in the ultimate cosmic sense.  He could not have initially been everything that is attributed to him. He could not have been worthy of a title of God.  If so, why would we attribute the title to him now.  Why would he want us to?

    Please, if you want to argue the beginning of the universe, do it on the other thread.  There's plenty of people ready to bandy their theories back and forth.

    1. kess profile image59
      kessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      God origin is nothing...
      if you miss this in the beginning then where would you end up....
      up to a million threads later...

    2. Beelzedad profile image61
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      *insert magical explanation here*



      So instead, you would rather conclude *insert magical explanation here*



      Yes, that is true, all you have to do is *insert magical explanation here*

      lol

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No. no. no. you don't understand the question. Go play else where please.

    3. 0
      SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      God did not evolve.  He always has been and always will be.  If God did evolve, then He is not God because He cannot be perfect. 

      Science cannot answer everything and, in fact, answers very little.  Science changes.  A theory today is old news tomorrow or until something better comes along.  That is the way of science.  Always changing (learning) and never coming to knowledge of the truth.

      There is a scvripture in the Bible that if we all did what it says, we would know much more than anyone does today.  Pro 3:5  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. We keep depending on our own knowledge and understanding thinking ourselves to be wise, but we don't really know anything.

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        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sir Dent, I apologize if this sounds rude; but that is a response I would get from a Jehovah Witness. They are fond of saying you shouldn't be too smart for God.

        We have brains. For whatever reason I have one,  I will use it. If you have not pondered this question there is no shame in it. If you choose not to ponder the question there is no shame in it.

        I reserve the same right to question, as you have not to. Yours is not an answer.

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          SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



          The answer is there.  If you don't agree with it just say so.

          Why I wrote about science was written because you spoke of God evolving which brings evolution into the discussion.

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            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Of course I don't agree. But that isn't the point. No one agrees all the time. I'm not sure your quote from proverbs is pertinent. Maybe it was at one time. I wouldn't know.

            Your point on science is an impossible one for me. I cannot imagine that a religion and science should be at odds. Facts are facts. To deny the things we know as fact is an odd faith I could never have.

            The point being, this is a roadblock for my thought processes on this matter. I won't bore you with the details. Who knows? Maybe someone will post something that makes sense to me.

            Thank you for your input.

      2. Beelzedad profile image61
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        How very intellectually dishonest of you to fabricate stories about how science works. Very disappointing, SirDent.

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Has it ever occurred to you that people are not dishonest, they simply see things differently? It doesn't make anyone right, but they have the right to their opinion. smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Trollin,,,,,

            Little wonder ur religion causes so many wars.

            Innit . LOL

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Sto it Mark. You already caused me to have a fight with my husband this morning. The least you could do is try to be nice.

          2. Beelzedad profile image61
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No, they don't "see things differently" when it comes to that which is evident and obvious to anyone who would take the time to see it for what it is. That is why it is intellectual dishonest to state such things just as it is intellectually dishonest to defend them.

            While I understand that believers will invoke magic into their explanations as that is a result of religious indoctrination. The have already accepted those irrational beliefs and have lost the ability to reason and rationalize.

            But, to state falsely that which is evident to anyone is a completely different thing.

            I'm quite happy to engage SirDent on his belief system and what he has accepted as far as his indoctrination is concerned. But, it shows a dishonesty on his part when he attempts to misinform others regarding science and how it works.

            The same goes for you. smile

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              When have I done that?

        2. 0
          SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



          So science has always known how old the world is?  A few years ago it was millions of years, even since it had been said to be 6 billion and now unless I am mistaken it is a little over 13 billion.

          Science guesses at what is right until someone comes up with something that seems better. 

          Splitting atoms was good until the A-bomb was created then used.  Now we have even more powerful nuclear bombs.  We also now have nuclear power that seemed to be the best way to go, but look at what has happened since.

          1. Beelzedad profile image61
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So very disappointing, SirDent. The world was never estimated at 6 or 13 billion years. Please try to stick to your belief system rather than venturing into unknown territory. Thanks. smile

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Why worship creation when you can worship the Creator smile

              1. Beelzedad profile image61
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, I understand believers need to worship something like an invisible super being, due to their indoctrination, and that they have no conceptual idea that others need not worship anything at all. smile

      3. Woman Of Courage profile image59
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        SirDent, I recieve that scripture. It is the true word of God. No matter how much knowledge one may have, but wisdom comes from God.

    4. 0
      jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "DO YOU THINK GOD EVOLVED FROM SOMETHING. "
      For anybody to answer that you have to first say what do yo mean by the term "god"?
      So far nobody-no theist nor atheist has consistently defined that term, yet go on saying there is god or no god.
      The only thing we can say is there is 'NO CREATOR'  and logically and rationally there is no super-being that control/help the fancies and whims of humans.
      The so called one who listen to all prayers and the one who holds yo in his palm are all wishful thinking of emotionally charged humans.
      Beyond that I don't understand what yo mean god when you say "god'!
      So god is there so........... fill up if anybody wants to!!

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Unfortunately, the term emotionally charged fits the bill across the board. Too bad. I was hoping this thread would provide thought provoking answers from each side. It's barely happened yet, and definitely not from your post.

        I hope, at the least, you enjoyed yourself typing it. smile

        1. 0
          jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So please tell me what this 'god' is......so that I can do it without "emotion"!

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That was the whole point, silly. The question is about a god. You don't recognize a god. Something brought you in and made you post an answer that in no way adressed the question. Must have been an emotional decision.

            1. 0
              jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Your question as I read was this""DO YOU THINK GOD EVOLVED FROM SOMETHING'.
              So you are asking about something called god, aren't you?
              You want to know whether that thing is evolved?
              Ain't I right in that two assumptions?
              Now you tell me I don't recognize a god.
              How do you know that?
              If you ask whether humans are evolved I can understand, for I know what humans are and there is not much confusion about it(atleast anybody can explain it).
              So with out first telling what god is how can I know.
              You already ruled out the creator and eternal being, the usual attributes applied to god.  So what else is left?

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Ok. We're on the same page about qwark being cool. I love his posts too. He's unique. But you should get a different persona. you don't want to come off like a sock puppet. Do you? smile

                1. 0
                  jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh! No I have nothing in common with him!!
                  Yo are the onewho started that with your posts. You debunked all the known attributes of "god". Then I was wondering what yo actually wanted!

                2. 0
                  jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You may say I have something common with fatfist though!!
                  To quote him......
                  God exist.................... make a hypothesis

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I do not know this fat fist. I don't usually quote people though. I find it fun to think for myself. smile

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image59
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        jomine, No God did not evolve.

    5. Radical Rog profile image83
      Radical Rogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You want to delve into the Gnostic gospels such as the Secret Gospel of John, a counterpart to Revelation only describing a visionary account of the beginning, or another called The First Thought in Three Forms.
      These provide an account of intelligence developing out of the natural energy of the universe long before any physical matter existed. This All Father deity is described as being 'beyond being called a god.' But second came an All Mother, a goddess and then the Son.
      Yet according to these scriptures, this is not the god of Moses and Abraham. He came later as a jumped up would be God unaware of this higher heaven.
      There's some boats to be rocked here.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sounds cool. Thanks. Would be an interesting read. smile

    6. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      But - you seen to have made the irrational assumption that the universe was created.

      Why?

      Seems you have had all the Christian answers you are going to get.

      "Majik" lol

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Ok. Now I see your problem with that..created. It is a loaded word. How about; came into existence? I don't know Mark. The word itself probably does leave room in the thought process for a god. But you need to find a word to replace it. I can't imagine ever reaching the point where I can imagine it logical to state that something simply is. For credibility's sake we need a more realistic third option. smile

  2. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Good mornin ...Sipping my first cup of coffee  Yawn

      For me  I don't care if what we call our ultimate power/sourse was before everything in the universe or not.

      I just simply accept that there is a higher authority.
    And everyone calls that power, God.

      Everyone that believes in God seems to have their own version of who and what the higher power is.

      I know what it is to me, and that is all that I can profess to.
      If there ws  God before him?  makes no difference to me?
    The one tht is now ..  is now.

       Something like that ny way ...  I'm not wake yet ...

  3. pisean282311 profile image56
    pisean282311posted 5 years ago

    no...humans thought did evolve and with it evolved religious god..

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yep. That's what it appears boiling down to. I'd think someone would have something  profound to say. There were one or two great comments on the other thread, but for the most part everyone ignored the question and fought over other stuff.

    2. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      yes, god evolved, in people's minds.  Started off as sun, moon gods etc & then evolved into single god based on human

  4. skyfire profile image72
    skyfireposted 5 years ago

    Typical theist BS. Find answer of 'how gravity works' in bible book vs any documented physics book. Little huh ? LOL. Science can't answer everything hence my faith is true *rolleyes*

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Science evolves.

      Guess God delights in watching us discover -well some of us lol

      1. skyfire profile image72
        skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Science doesn't evolve always, it's human's understanding of science (-nature and laws of nature) evolves. Earlier people used to believe that universe was restricted to this solar system only(and intelligent christian who believe there is no life outside this solar system still do, and in reality milky way galaxy (in which our solar system is just a small dot in universe). Science evolves in this case ? hell no.

        As for that delight remark *shrugs*

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sure ,I accept the point you mentioned.

          How bout stars that disappear, or new ones that reappear.

          Creatures still being discovered ,how shall science age them?

          I know I do not know even a half of whats out there ,let alone explain it.

          All the best scientists in the world agree that they havent even tapped the surface of many theories.

          I dont believe they ever will. Such is the vastness.

          Who made it all? roll

          1. skyfire profile image72
            skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            If you understand the concept of light years then you'll understand that how many years it takes for that image to appear. So stars born or died in front of you today are not necessarily meant to be born or died today in space. 


            W.r.t human parameters of age of earth and universe. Human discovery not necessarily equates exact origin of that species.


            That doesn't mean i should read babble to <insert magic here> questions. You're free to do that. If virus pops up pray to angel Micheal instead of running anti-virus, will work for ya. big_smile


            Who made the entity that made it all ? wink Can you prove it or will point me to babble book to escape from the burden of that question ? tongue

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Gosh if you cant have one conversation without being rude,dont bother asking me any questions! or at least be original with your insults wink


              Like I said before ,if Science amazes you ,then you will surely have some idea of why Christians hold their Creator in awe.


              Loved your example re computer....

              Heres mine :  Why does God remember you?

                            Because Jesus Saves smile

              1. skyfire profile image72
                skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Oh that sounds like insult to you ? *huh*

                There are plenty of reasons Christians are subscribing to this BS- from deluded ego to lack of evidence and lack of understanding. I find Christians with agnostic inclination more interesting than Christians who think- god sent bible in pdf copy (err) and expected his loving species to follow the rules.



                Jesus saves ? LOL. He failed to save his own <insert cough word> and he saves ours ? hell yeah i agree  lol

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  *No sense of humour huh*


                  Oh dear you didnt get why God sent his son either.
                  I think you are the one that is deluded.

                  Who made the animals eyes ?
                  Who made the stars that shine?
                  Who made it all

                  My God He made them all.

                  Enjoy.

                  1. skyfire profile image72
                    skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    neutral


                    Tell me about it...


                    You're asking this as if it's single shot process of species formation.


                    Stars don't shine in technical sense, they reflect light due to various gases. wink


                    Who made the entity that made it all ? wink


                    *whatever* sorry if that was haiku of yours in four questions, didn't meant to attack on poetry/poets on hubpages. sad

                  2. Beelzedad profile image61
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    No "one" made any of those things. Eyes have evolved and stars formed from clouds of gases. smile

              2. Woman Of Courage profile image59
                Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                kiwi, Yes Jesus is the Savior. It was all in the plan of God big_smile

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Amen sister xo smile


                  Notice how skyfire copies and pastes to answer like Mark ,Cags and Beezle...

                  lol

                  1. skyfire profile image72
                    skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    *facepalm*

                    that's part of public forum feature - "quoting". How long you're using internet ? Let me know so that i can tone it down and make it one-liner replies instead.

          2. Beelzedad profile image61
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The fact that others have a very good idea of "whats out there" and that scientists don't agree with your misinformed analysis shows in stark contrast your belief they don't. smile

  5. stclairjack profile image79
    stclairjackposted 5 years ago

    ok,... for fear that i might get my theological chopps busted,...

    i pose an answer in the form of another question;

    what if god did not meerly evolve but still is, as we are along side of god, on a different level.

    i will explain my silly theory further if asked.

  6. Eaglekiwi profile image73
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    So, if you didnt mean to answer,what did you mean to do?

    1. skyfire profile image72
      skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I thought about answering if that's part of your reply with questions, not to dissect just in case if it was haiku.

      1. stclairjack profile image79
        stclairjackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        sat and gave this some thought, and in the end made a hub,... enjoy,... do with it what you will,... it is vol 1 of an answer,... wher i am, its very late and i have to clock in tomorow.

        http://hubpages.com/hub/the-evolution-of-god-vol-1?done

 
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