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What is Christian Love

  1. 0
    just_curiousposted 5 years ago

    I keep reading comments from Christians telling people they love them. What exactly does this mean? I said it a few times when I got here, but I was doing it because I knew it irritated the person attempting to be adversarial. I was laughing when I typed it, because I knew it would goad.

    I assume, when many state this they are somehow serious. Can you explain the philosophy behind the statement? I am curious.

    1. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think they just throw the word love around. I've been told that by a few on the religious forums.  I think it's weird, as they don't even know me.  They say god gives them the capacity to love every single person in the world

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I don't throw love. I give and show love.

        If you met me in person, you would know that.. I love to help people, for people are my brothers and sisters.

        God gives me everything..

        smile

        1. Daniel Carter profile image91
          Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Not me. I stopped trying a while back. I try to love the people in my life.

          God has to love the rest. I certainly can't find it me to do so. He also has to love my exwives. That's certainly not my job anymore, although I don't have any contempt for them at this point. And since I'm not sure about God, I guess they'll all have to fend for themselves, as I do.

          As for what Christian love is, it's obviously what they do. It's a lot louder than what they say.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "...I guess they'll all have to fend for themselves, as I do."

            Yep, that's man's point of view..

            1 John 3:17

            17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

            And Beelzebub doesn't want to tell you that compassion is a by-product of love...

            God says love your neighbour 'as yourself'..  [Matthew 22:37]

            smile

            1. Daniel Carter profile image91
              Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Been there. Did that for over 40 years.
              It's pretty much man's made up version of something that he believes is bigger than himself.

              I understand the scriptures, still have many memorized, and blah, blah, blah. Still the words of men.

              Not interested.

              I'm quite capable of loving other people without someone telling me how to do it and why. Search inside. Love is in everyone. They may not show it well, but it's there somewhere.

              Religions never had the inside scoop on any of this.

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Rejecting God or His word doesn't make it go away.. lol

                I'm sorry, but if you've been there and understood scripture, it would be obvious to you.

                And "did that for over 40 years." doesn't mean anything if you gave it up.

                One will only let go of what one never believed in...

                smile

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Or in the light of reality. smile I used to believe in Santa, but then I grew up.

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well then die and don't exist. If that's what you want to believe.

                    Why try to convince me?

                    You really think you "spawned" from absolutely nothing?

                    My goodness..

                    smile

                2. Daniel Carter profile image91
                  Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You apparently have the right to judge me for some reason.
                  Wear my shoes, walk through what I did, and then say those things. You have no idea what my life is or what it has been like.

                  A very shallow, narrow take, indeed.

                  You deserve to be judged by your own judgment of others.

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    What was my judgement?

                    "Been there. Did that for over 40 years.
                    It's pretty much man's made up version of something that he believes is bigger than himself."

                    That you didn't believe? You said that of yourself...

                    smile

        2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          vector, Agreed. I sincerely give and show love also. smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Dear me. You think you show love?

            Little wonder your religion causes so many wars. sad

            My - you are brave though. LOLOL

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Why so much war talk?

              You talk more about war than anyone I know.

              I can count at least 20 times and post them all right here.

              Forget war, there is no war here, only peace...

              I love you Mark.

              smile

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No - you don't. You don't even know me. You hide behind an anonymous Internet persona.

                This is why your religion causes so many wars. sad

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  My name is Daniel Buchanan. No persona. Posted it plenty before.

                  You can say all you want. Like it or not. I love you. Period..

                  Accusations are not nice. And they won't work.

                  Unless you claim your forefathers act in slavery because you are white, you should really give it a rest Mark..

                  smile

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    No - you do not know me at all. You have never even met me. You are trying to show how much better you are than me, by lying. But - thanks for reminding me why I despise your religion.

                    This is why your religion causes so many wars. sad

            2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hi Mark, There you go again with the war stuff. big_smile

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Awww


                So you are not a Warrior for Jesus? LOLOL

                This would be why your religion causes so many wars.

                My -how brave you are - unknown stranger hiding behind an Internet persona.

                So brave of you. smile

                LOLOLOLO

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You don't need her name.

                  Why would you need her name Mark?

                  That's not normal to seek personal information.

                  I wouldn't post it if I was her either.

                  It's very smart of her..

                  smile

                  1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                    Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    vector, You're right. It's not normal. One has a right to not post personal information if they choose not too. Besides, there are many on hubpages who are using screen names. It's quite childish for a grown person to constantly ridicule someone for not using their name. Love and blessings to you smile

                2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                  Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Mark, Yes I am a warrior for Jesus. smile I don't need to post my name to prove that to you.

                3. Chosen4Him profile image59
                  Chosen4Himposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow!  That is so well said, Mark.

                  1. Chosen4Him profile image59
                    Chosen4Himposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    After reading all this, I am not sure what I responded to as to "Well said,"  I read something postive, and responded to it, but what is going on as to bringing confussion is not my intention.  Yes, religion bring confussion,but the Spirit of God bring peace.  I pray for peace!

                4. couturepopcafe profile image62
                  couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Mark, it's a mistake to lump people together.  Saying 'your religion causes so many wars' implies that everyone of that religion is of the same mind.  Not so.  You know this but always seem to choose to be an agitator instead of a conversationalist.  I guess it could be fun at times to poke fun at others but really what's the point?

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    How perceptive you are.
                    Nice to hear a fresh non-confrontational voice of reason!

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Not really. The religion causes wars and conflict. Always has done, always will do. Is doing so today. When you think you have a god speaking into your head - you cannot make rational decisions about a lot of things.

                    The point is that the religion causes conflict and wars. Admittedly - there are a few peaceful Christians - yes. Not many pacifist Christians though =- are there?

                    Have you read this book? I don't see how it could do anything other than cause conflicts. This is part of the central dogma and teachings:

                    "He who is not with me is against me,"
                    Matthew 12:30. Luke 11:23


                    How does this not cause division and - ultimately - conflict?

                    Sure - a few Christians do not follow the bible - I know. But the basic teaching is this. And the person I was speaking to causes conflicts and fights for Jesus. She specifically created an anonymous Internet persona to fight about her religion.

                    This is why their religion always causes conflicts. sad

        3. 0
          Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          how do you love me, specifically?  Do you know what I like, what causes me pain?  What I value, what I despise? 

          Or is 'love' to you just preaching at people you don't know?

          1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
            Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            ???? Love is an action. One does not have to visibly see a person to show love. I don't have to know what you like or what causes you pain to show love toward you. On one of my first conversations with you online, I told you I was sorry about the hurt you been through. I really mean't that. I didn't mean any harm by stating I hope you come back to the Lord before it is too late. You formed a judgemental attitude toward me and stated that I was preaching at you from just a simple reply to you. It was an overreaction to my post. I was showing love toward you, but you failed to recognize it and took it the wrong way. I hope the best for you. Take care.

      2. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It kind of makes me gag when I read it. I can't imagine loving someone you don't know. A lot of posters here fascinate me, but even those I agree with I couldn't garner much more than a statement about them sounding like good people. It will be interesting to read the explanations. But I know a lot of people that bandy the word about more than I feel comfortable with, so it could just be me.

        1. 0
          Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          yeah, it just sounds weird and insincere when they say it, because humans cannot possibly 'love' ALL humans, let alone like ALL humans - their brains would explode if they tried.

          I don't love all humans - it would not be the truth to say I do.  Don't hate them either.  I don't even like my work colleagues.  Like some, yes.  Dislike some, but have to be professional, yes. 

          I love those dear to me, like my husband and son.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Thankfully, because you believe someone cannot do something, does not make it so.. You not understanding does not make it impossible, or unreasonable to think someone can.

            What a person "is" and what they "do" are two different things. I love people.. I don't love the things they do such as call people names or steal. But I still love the person..

            I say what I mean and I mean what I say.

            I love everyone..

            smile

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You must be very proud of yourself. sad

            2. 0
              Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              define this 'love'

            3. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              vector, Exactly, well stated.

        2. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I hope I don't turn out to be in the minority when I say this, but I do love you, lol. And everyone else, too. Sorry if that is offensive. But I am, of course, not christian.

          The christians -and other worldviews- teach that there are several kinds of love. I agree with this. While the love we may feel for people we don't know may not always be an active love in a very measurable way, I believe it is active, in a round about way.

          Only rarely have I said it to someone I don't know over the internet, but there have been occasions. To ease the sting of a sharp reply, to express a sort of an I'm with you, you're not alone (most often), or to just express my appreciation of someone else's regular wit or humanity or ability to supply me with something I want, lol.

          The people I argue with online are just the same as me when you get right down to it, and so are the ones I don't. We're all human, we all have many of the same trials and tribulations, and no doubt ones we haven't personally faced as well.

          I don't see what the big deal is.


          Christian love is nothing special imho. They just credit it to Jesus/God/The Vapid One, while I credit it to 'being in touch with my humanity', whatever one can make of that.

          Frankly, I am shocked to hear that you don't love me back! It's concerning. Where can the human race go without loving each other?

          1. Daniel Carter profile image91
            Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Agreeing with what you have written, I propose we go to a movie.

            1. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Sounds good. You buy, I'll pick the movie. wink

              1. Daniel Carter profile image91
                Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Right on, girl.
                Woo Hoo!

    2. Radical Rog profile image85
      Radical Rogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Joshua entered Jericho ordered to 'devote everyone and everything to destruction. That's killing the old, the sick, the lame, women, children, pregnant mothers, what would be called genocide today. The Church has a history of persecuting Jews, witches, atheists, inquisitions against any who disagreed with their theology and even those who translated the bible into the common language.
      If this lot love you, you really need to watch out.

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe you forgot Jesus Christ, the Son of God came and there was no more need to set a plan for the Messiah into action any more.

        And He also taught the law which we are to abide by today.

        Matthew 22:36

        36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

        ~Jesus

        A small amount of knowledge is dangerous. And can one can condemn themselves with their own words..

        Matthew 12:36

        36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

        ~Jesus

        If you are to watch, it should be of yourself friend..

        smile

    3. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ...christisn love can be best defined by studying the 1000 yrs of the "Dark Ages."
      Oh and ya might just swing by "Salem" in the late 1600's.
      There ya go. That should do it!
      Qwark

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Ok. Thanks for the input. I was curious what those who use the word all the time meant. I've never noticed you use the word, but I'm  feeling the love here. So that's where your inspiration comes from. Interesting. smile

        1. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          ..."inspiration?"
          Oh yeh!
          Lotsa love here...smile:
          Qwark

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Here is some more biblical "love"

                "Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge!  Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD.  "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".   (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)

            Are all religions blind, or are the mass of misspelled threads indicative of a total lack of education? smile

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well, unfortunately God being real.. He's really not going to smile on you saying He is less intelligent than you..

              Of course you think it's wrong.. You also think governments are considerate of the people they govern do you?

              The world is evil, God was trying to keep the weeds cut back.

              It's His judgement. He wrote the book of existence. What's tearing out a couple pages of living words out because they refused to be read?? You going to keep feeding that dog that's biting your hand too?

              smile

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                it does not require a lot of understanding to see the psychosis in the OT, a simple read will suffice.
                I am still trying to see how anyone could read it and believe otherwise.

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I see Jesus Christ, and His resurrection and wonder how anyone cannot see it. The evidence is there.

                  But you can deny it of course..

                  smile

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    How do you deal with the OT, do you ignore it or rip it out of your "good" book?
                    I guess not. I wish you would address the issues the OT brings, and all the contradictions in the NT.

                    When someone writes literally thousands of abusive hate filled threatening "scripture" in the tome, you, like the readers of that other "good" book seem to have tunnel vision! smile
                    The quoran and bible are the same for the most part.

              2. Cagsil profile image83
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                With a view like that, it makes one wonder how you can love people?

                Speaks volumes of you. Thank you for sharing. Good luck touting a non-real god. wink

            2. qwark profile image61
              qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hi Earn:

              There is so much of that in scripture!

              Ex.: "Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children."  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

              Don't these ignorant, insane "believers: read this stuff?

              If they do, do they turn a "blind-eye" to the psychosis of this biblical god thing?

              Disgusting!

              Qwark

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It is the most amazing thing. Apparently they can read the 40,000 odd threats as "love" lol

                1. qwark profile image61
                  qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  ...pure dementia Earn!
                  Qwark

    4. Onusonus profile image88
      Onusonusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's a brotherly love. Not that I have to like you, but I feel that it would be a bummer if you died or didn't exist.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That's about the best definition posted so far.

        1. Onusonus profile image88
          Onusonusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks dude!

    5. Doshndollars profile image60
      Doshndollarsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.  It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 

      Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.  It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

      Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away

      1. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Timely posting, thank you.

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Dosh, Welcome to Hubpages. I enjoyed reading your beautiful post.

      3. habee profile image91
        habeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Beautiful words from I Corinthians!

      4. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Amen....

        smile

    6. mecheil profile image59
      mecheilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      christian love is brotherly love for fellow christians. it means being with them, especially when distress comes their way. christian love may be shown in many ways, by giving them emotional relief, material support, spiritual aid, or simply a pat on the shoulder.

      i think we need to also consider jesus on this, he is the christ anyway. he showed brotherly love in a lot ways (we can read it in the scriptures), but the most notable of all is dying for them. (according to interpretations, his death was the best kind of love ever shown)

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sounds like a reasonable take on the term.

    7. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Love is a good word,but it is a verb which means ,its shown in action smile

      Guess that didnt really answer your question huh, lol.

      I dont usually say it ,unless I can back it up.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        See?  It's posts like yours that I get completely.  It's a good definition. smile

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Cool.

          (I confess,had the same question fired at me by my son) cept he worded it slightly differently,lol)

          His question 'Do you love me ,because I exist,or because I make you happy?- Easy to answer son ,since you most definately do some things that dont make me happy lol

          I love (him) because he exists. The word love then is considered a noun. wink

    8. 0
      SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



      A christian love is the love of God which dwells within them. Not all have this love, (you already know where I stand on it from another thread).

      The Bible says that God so loved the world that He gave.  A person who loves is a person who gives to those who deserve it and those who do not.  They will love those who are unlovable, drunkards, drug addicts, outcasts, criminals, etc. . .

    9. couturepopcafe profile image62
      couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey just curious - I've been out of the forums for a while and just decided to see what's been going on.  Same old junk, I see.  If you don't know what love is then one can naturally assume you have never felt it from within yourself.  Christian love is the same as any other love.  It is not definable, unexplainable, a state of consciousness which defies everything man can create.  We get to the state of love through understanding, real understanding, not the type you are provoking through what you believe to be a comic radicalism.  You will never find it or find out what it feels like because you look in the wrong places in the wrong ways.  Wake up and realize that the mentality you embrace will lead you to a path of emptiness. Namaste.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Cool. A psychic. That's one interesting attempt at a parlor trick. Unfortunately you don't know me and you've gotten it wrong. smile

        1. couturepopcafe profile image62
          couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sometimes.  But in this case I took your OP at face value.  You asked what love is.  I gave my learned opinion. You goad.  I rejected your premise that it is possible to do so within the state of love.  I should have said 'one will never find it', etc. instead of using the word 'you'.   So what do you see as the parlor trick?  Apologies for getting it wrong.  You are offended but you have not addressed the answer to your quest, only defended your pride.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I wasn't defending my pride. I was laughing. You could very well be right, but not from the observation of a post or two. I do goad at times, I do admit. But it is in response to behavior of like kind. This is, of course, just my opinion. You have a different one. That's great. Two opinions are better than one, but only if both parties are willng to listen. This thread was started in response to definitions bandied about that aren't in line with your quite reasonable definition. It was an attempt at dialogue; but your initial post did not reflect an understanding of that. It appeared somewhat judgmental. If I misread your statement, I apologize.

            1. couturepopcafe profile image62
              couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No you didn't misread.  I can be surfacely judgemental.  Guilty as charged. I always say two half heads are better than none.  L

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Namaste. smile

                1. couturepopcafe profile image62
                  couturepopcafeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you.  I was actually happy that you called me out on the judgmental thing.  Sometimes I just get fed up with people who don't think, don't care, are inconsiderate even on the most base level.  So I just jump to conclusions, first impressions.  There was a time when I actually gave people the benefit of the doubt.  Today, I need time to absorb information so it's best for me not to jump and be judgmental but I guess it's easy to do in forums because it's only the very powerful written word.  Namaste to you.  (I think it's really funny, considering the OP, that your screen initials are jc.)

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Now I feel bad again. I wasn't attempting to call you out. You are correct, though. I guess words are more powerful than we intend quite often. I still post more train of thought than I should.

                    I have to laugh at your jc comment. I was mortified at first when I realized whose initials I shared. It seemed presumptuous to end up with initials that matched someone as great at he was, but it was an accident. And I am, for the most part, just curious. smile

    10. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
      Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think that mamny christians are under the delusion that without belief in a god then you cant love one another.

      Just look at the common christian belief that gay relationships cannot contain love between the couple.

      Why is that? Put it this way, I have been presented with the arguement many many times that god exists because love exists which in my eye, implies implicitly that godless people do not know love.

      I have also been accused of being incapable of love since I dont believe in a god.

      I think it is sad that people think this way. Especially when the hypocrites dont love gay people......

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes. I had a christian propose once that homosexuality is simply someone's cross to bear. What the heck? What rankles me is how they spew their hatred at those who don't belong to their congregation and then find the ability to forgive a pastor when it comes to light that he isn't heterosexual, but now that it's out he's 'seen the light and cured himself'. And don't get me started on the catholic church.

        But, with power always comes hypocrisy. What can you do other than rail against it? It's the way of the world.

  2. kess profile image59
    kessposted 5 years ago

    Life and Love is one , the understanding of one is the understanding the other.

    Love means you want the best for another...

    But what is the best for another?
    We usually think it is that which we are ourselves, therefore you desire that a person be that who you are...

    So therefore if you do not realize that you are already perfect , then you Love can only be imperfect...


    In this world "I Love you" primarily means "I love what you can give to me"...because the one extending love sees himself as empty...

    But love is never empty but full from the beginning...

    So I am Life...so Love is all I have to give

    1. mrkterhune profile image60
      mrkterhuneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I like your point.

  3. 0
    Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago

    Let me give you my take on it...Christian love is love like Jesus offered - it's love that's given freely, whether it's requested or returned, and it's love that's not conditional on another's agreement with your position or assent to your belief.  It's a very deliberate action.  Frankly, I choose to look on it in a very traditional way.  There are seven corporal acts of mercy:

    To feed the hungry
    To give drink to the thirsty.
    To clothe the naked.
    To visit and ransom the captive, (prisoners).
    To shelter the homeless.
    To visit the sick.
    To bury the dead.

    When all of these things are done respectfully, the person is offering Christian love.  There is also a list of spiritual acts of mercy, but I think too many people misunderstand that list and actually abuse people in the process.  They are:

    Instruct the uninformed
    Counsel the doubtful;
    Admonish sinners;
    Bear wrongs patiently;
    Forgive offenses willingly;
    Comfort the afflicted;
    Pray for the living, sick and the dead.

    I believe it's only right to instruct the uninformed if they ask for instruction.  Counseling the doubtful does not mean telling them that their doubts are wrong.  Admonishing sinners, in my opinion, is to admonish a fellow BELIEVER who is living contrary to what they say they believe.  The rest can all be done quietly and without fanfare.  Unfortunately, too many folks take those first three to mean that they should do those things to/for EVERYONE, and in a very demanding and demeaning way.  Ask for my instruction, and I will gladly give it.  Ask me for counsel when doubtful, and I will do my best to reasonably acknowledge and understand your doubt and help you through it.  I will admonish a sinner within my own "community" if I believe they are putting themselves or another in danger. 

    Hope that helps some.  In the end, corporal works are mercy are the ones that most easily SHOW our love for one another.  The others are nebulously interpreted and ambiguously presented.  But, the general belief is that Christian love is an action, not a feeling, so while I may not like you much, or agree with you, I can still choose to love you by showing my love in concrete ways.  Saying it to someone you've never seen in a religious forum?  C'mon, be real.  They don't buy it, and you're really just trying to sell it.  So, in the end, it's a lose/lose.  And, more often than not, the person is saying it too appear to be "better" than the person to whom they're speaking.  It looks condescending, in my opinion, because it typically is.

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks Mo. As always, your take on it is kind and admirable.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Good truth,hope it lasts a few pages smile

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You guys are both good eggs. smile

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Can I be a peanut butter filled one.

            I bought two yesterday for someone else) an ate them both tonight  hmm

            Thanks jc.

    2. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Nonsense, that isn't "Christian love" that's simply compassion, which all humans have instinctively.

       

      Those most certainly are Christian characteristics, the ones that start conflicts and wars. Do away with them, stick to just being compassionate and all will be well. smile

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Wow. I would have never thought I had to say this to you, but take off those rose colored glasses.  Humans don't 'instinctively' possess traits of compassion. Look at any kid.  They are, by nature, selfish.  Our society teaches these things to their childred in whatever way we deem appropriate.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Indoctrination is very, very strong in this one.



          "Children securely attached to their parents, compared to insecurely attached children, tend to be sympathetic with their peers as early as 3.5 years of age (Saters, Wippman, & Sroufe, 1979). In contrast, abusive parents who resort to physical violence have less empathetic children (Main & George, 1985).
          Developmental psychologists have also been interested in parenting style, and disciplinary practices as predictors of empathy and pro-social behavior. The comparison tends to focus on one of two styles. Parents who rely on induction engage their children in reasoning when they have done harm, prompting their child to think about the consequences of their actions and how they have harmed others. Parents who rely on power assertion simply declare what is right and wrong, and resort more often to physical punishment or strong emotional responses of anger. Parents who resort to induction and reasoning promote children who are more pro-social and likely to help their peers (e.g., Eisenberg & Fabes, 1998; Hoffman, 1983).
          Other factors still promote more empathy and helping. Giving children chores makes them more pro-social. Children who have grandparents around, and have strong connections with grandparents tend to be more pro-social. Children who have compassionate and pro-social parents tend to be more altruistic."


          http://www.altruists.org/static/files/T … ner%29.pdf

          smile

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You don't understand what I'm saying. I agree with your post. I'm talking Lord of The Flies. Children, with no guidance from adults would not understand compassion. Not as we know it.

            1. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Have you even read that book? These were kids that already were well educated in British society. 

              Btw, do you know for what the literal translation is from "Lord of the Flies"? smile

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No. I didn't read the book. I don't think I've even seen the movie. A trailer maybe. I just know it's about a bunch of wild boys. And no, I don't know what the literal translation is. I am interested, but before ypu enlighten me can you, at the least,  concede that children need the guidance of adults to develop social and emotional skills? I'm not talking religion Beelzedad. But they have to observe the behavior of something in order to copy it.

                Oh, also, lighten up on the indoctrinated statements. smile

                1. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Then, why the heck are you even referring to it? Sheesh.



                  Why should I? You refer to a book you've never read to support an uninformed assertion. Hilarious.



                  Yet, another uninformed assertion.



                  Perhaps, if stopped exhibiting those characteristics and begin thinking for a change, the statements would then stop. But, so far, your posts show little else but religious indoctrination. smile

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I referred to that simply because, for some reason, every man I know uses that as an example. I assume you are a man and therefore thought it would be appropriate. My bad.

                    And you see what you call religious indoctrination in me. I see what I call inconsiderate behavior in you. They're probably synonymous.

        2. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't agree with this. They are needy however.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I don't mean to imply they are bad. They are self centered, naturally. But kids need guidance. Without it they will not instinctively gravitate towards compassion.

            1. Daniel Carter profile image91
              Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Humans are equipped with the complete range of emotions. Most response is based on stimuli to produce a reaction. It's human nature to respond with help from a call for help. Unless there is a trigger to provoke a negative reaction such as distrust or threat, there will likely be a positive reaction in most cases we're implying here. Encouragement by authority figures only works for a period, until the individual can actually test and decide for him/herself. Most people decide that positive responses like love and compassion are not only beneficial to themselves, but to many others, and therefore, it's safe and prudent to proceed in such a way.

              So, while kids may need encouragement and guidance, it's not nearly as much as we assume, because it's already innate in them. In the end, they decide for themselves anyway, when given the opportunity.

            2. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Nonsense, altruism and compassion are part of us as they have evolved along with us over many millennium. These are not characteristics that need to be taught, they will occur naturally just like any other instinct we possess. smile

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yeah. He adopted altruism from the monkeys..

                wink

                1. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  If nothing else, read this article. It will be well worth the while and should make one really question the belief that mankind is sinful by nature or instead by scriptural curse. Enjoy.smile

                  "Altruistic behaviour is common throughout the animal kingdom, particularly in species with complex social structures. For example, vampire bats regularly regurgitate blood and donate it to other members of their group who have failed to feed that night, ensuring they do not starve. In numerous bird species, a breeding pair receives help in raising its young from other ‘helper’ birds, who protect the nest from predators and help to feed the fledglings. Vervet monkeys give alarm calls to warn fellow monkeys of the presence of predators, even though in doing so they attract attention to themselves, increasing their personal chance of being attacked."

                  http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biological/

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Nice source! smile

                  2. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It's amazing what information you can find on the internet, isn't it?  I found this.  You might want to read up on it. smile

                    Altruistic behaviour is common throughout the atheist kingdom, particularly in individuals  not associated with courteous social  structures. For example, aggressive atheists regularly regurgitate lines from Richard Dawkins’ book to other members of their group who have failed to feed that night, ensuring they do not suffer from lack of ammunition. Numerous individuals receive help in attacking their prey by soliciting  ‘helper’ aggresssive atheists, who protect the primary aggressor from flanking moves by anyone that doesn’t agree with their attack on their prey. Aggressive agnostics, who lean heavily toward aggressive atheism, sometimes  give alarm calls to warn aggressive atheists of  the presence of believers, even though in doing so they attract attention to themselves, increasing their personal chance of being condemned to the eternal fires of hell.

                    check it out at
                    http://socrates.uofbs.bs/entries/altrui … kiddingme/

              2. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes. Naturally in some people. How do you suggest a child that doesn't naturally develop these traits learn them? Not everyone has them Beelzedad. I've met people, even on these forums, that lack compassion.  smile

                1. Pandoras Box profile image82
                  Pandoras Boxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No you haven't. Just cause they didn't choose to take it out and show it to you doesn't mean they didn't have any.

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That's an interesting concept. Maybe that's what he means by religious indoctrination. I try to treat every one compassionately across the board. A religious concept. I never realized that.

      2. 0
        Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I can certainly see how bearing wrongs patiently, forgiving offenses willingly, comforting the afflicted....yes, these are terribly controversial things which lead to war and conflict.  Your astute observation holds me in thrall.  Perhaps if you quoted someone's entire post rather than piecing together what you want to attack, everyone would take your argument a little more seriously.  I seem to recall in my original post saying that the first three of these often cause conflict.  Did you read that part?  Probably not.  Or, if you did, I notice that you very deliberately left it out of the part of my post you chose to quote.  Here's the part you deliberately removed:

        "I believe it's only right to instruct the uninformed if they ask for instruction.  Counseling the doubtful does not mean telling them that their doubts are wrong.  Admonishing sinners, in my opinion, is to admonish a fellow BELIEVER who is living contrary to what they say they believe.  The rest can all be done quietly and without fanfare.  Unfortunately, too many folks take those first three to mean that they should do those things to/for EVERYONE, and in a very demanding and demeaning way.  Ask for my instruction, and I will gladly give it.  Ask me for counsel when doubtful, and I will do my best to reasonably acknowledge and understand your doubt and help you through it.  I will admonish a sinner within my own "community" if I believe they are putting themselves or another in danger."

        Really, Beelzedad, troll for bigger fish.  You'll find no joy or sport in catching this one. 

        As to compassion being instinctive in every human being?  No, I do not believe that it is.  It is instinctive for us to do kind things for those for whom we "feel" love.  Doing it for others, who may be cruel, unkind, smelly, or downright evil - that's above the average human instinct.  That's what makes it of supernatural origin. 

        Have fun!

        smile

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Really? So, not one of your points can stand on its own, it must be supported by the entire argument even thought the point is contradictory or unnecessary to the argument?

          If each point cannot stand on it's own, the entire argument cannot be valid.   



          No, I get that and I did read and understand it. But again, if your entire argument is going to be based on several points, then each of the those points needs to be valid. Let's look further into your argument for more inconsistencies.



          Here again we find flawed and illogical reasoning as well as that which contradicts facts and reality, and smacks entirely of scriptural indoctrination.

          Yet, while it is the duty of every Christian to evangelize their religion and convert others, you would not agree with this approach, yet on the other hand, you agree with other doctrines of your religion. smile

          1. 0
            Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Which is why I'm as hated by Christians as I am hated by unbelievers.  It is the duty of every Christian to evangelize their religion and convert others?  That is indeed what scripture says, and I do not disagree with it.  I simply believe that many go about it in the wrong fashion - perhaps even I do on occasion.  Debating with you is not how one should go about it.  You, like it or not, oh, un-indoctrinated one, are a disciple in your own right of a system of beliefs and doctrine different from mine.  Perhaps your purpose is to make as many disciples as possible.  So be it.

            Again, bigger fish than I will be much more fun for you.

            1. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Personally, I have seen no one here exclaim that they hate you, maybe I missed that memo or something. You appear to be a very nice person.



              Whatever fashion they decide is their own doing whether you agree with it or not, they probably don't think your fashion to be acceptable either.

              Such is the nature of conflict within Christianity.



              Yes, I understand you don't wish to debate, to question your beliefs or attempt any rationale thought processes. So be it.

              However, pointing out the flaws of your arguments is perfectly acceptable and has nothing to do with making disciples or holding a set of beliefs. smile

              1. 0
                Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I didn't say that anyone here on HubPages has said that they hate me.  I actually don't think anyone has in my time here.  For the most part, they've been quite kind to me.  Thank you, by the way.  I'm glad that you feel I'm a nice person.  I am, however, not really here to debate, evangelize, or anything else.  My initial post in this particular thread was to give my answer to a very specific question.  That you disagree with it in no way surprises or offends me.  That you choose to pick it apart "logically" in debate fashion just doesn't inspire me to want to do the same.  Humans are not always logical.  Life is not always logical.  So, for the un-evolved and indoctrinated among us, fighting logic with logic isn't an exciting endeavor.  I am personally of the opinion that much of what man claims to "know" is frankly un-knowable.  And, yes, I'm content to live in the zone of un-knowing.  You may choose whatever adjective or noun you like to describe that feature of my character.  I call it acceptance.

                1. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  And, yet you are here, contradictory to why you claim you are not here.



                  I am sorry you're not inspired, excited or interested in logic. If not, what does inspire and excite you?

                   

                  And yet, contradictory to what you claim, whatever man knows is what he does know, and much of it actually works just the way they know it works.

                   

                  I call it acceptance, too. Acceptance of the illogical, irrational and that which fails to face up to the facts of the world around us. And, I totally understand you are content to live in that zone. smile

                  1. 0
                    Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Huh?  Did I claim that I was not here?  I thought I simply said I wasn't here to debate or evangelize.  I should have expounded on the "anything else" I suppose as being anything else related to religion.  I am here.  Here at HubPages, I mean.  I am here to write.  Contradictory, I know, given that this is a site for writers.  That I would have the nerve then to answer a direct question on a forum is appalling when considered in that light.  I'll be certain to avoid that in the future.  Thanks so much for pointing that error on my part. wink

                    And, regarding what excites,inspires, and interests me?  I assume (perhaps wrongly) that you don't really give a hoot about that. Since that is the case, I shall decline answering that question.  In reality, it's meaningless to anyone but me anyway, and certainly doesn't address the OP or anything else in the thread.  You may feel free to now berate me for having said what does NOT inspire me as an attempt to "cause conflict" by getting you to ask what does. smile

                    Man knows - then those who know may feel secure in their knowledge.  May they live long and prosper.

                    Call it whatever you wish to call it.  That you "understand" me brings immeasurable joy to my heart.  I don't know that I'd have made it through another day of being un-evolved, indoctrinated, and content without that knowledge.  Certainly your validation is exactly what I search after and long for with every word I type here at HP.

                    smile

    3. AEvans profile image71
      AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well put. smile

  4. thebrucebeat profile image60
    thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago

    To Christ, love was a verb.  Quite simply, it is something you do, not something you feel.  In his case, it was often unrequited, undeserved, foolish, unjustifiable and total, and ultimately fatal.  He loved the unlovable, and often used the Samaritans, the hated adversary of the Jews, as his example.

    How many Christians today do you know using gays or Muslims as their examples of who they love?

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Excellent point. It would be nice if someone who uses the word in every other post could explain that.

    2. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I love gays and muslims and everyone.

      Contrary to what the question implies, those you speak of are not true Christians.

      Christ said to love everyone, including your enemies.. Let alone a gay or a muslim, for they are not my enemies.  (Matthew 5:43-44)

      "To Christ, love was a verb."

      Yes, meaning that you act on the love you have for them.

      He taught extensively on the fact that the actions and things you say come from the heart.

      Luke 6:45

      45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

      But the good things from the heart should not just be spoken:

      Matthew 25:40

      34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

      "How many Christians today do you know using gays or Muslims as their examples of who they love?"

      If someone claims to be a Christian and does not the things which Christ teaches, why do you ask why Christians do this or that?

      For you know those who act like a Christian are a Christian. While those that only claim they are Christians are not Christians at all if they do not fit the description.

      Anyone can claim to be anything. That does not make them so. Using the word "Christians" to describe people who don't act like Christians is like using the word "NBA Athlete" to describe people that don't even play professional basketball.

      They do not do that which makes them what they claim. Anyone can wear a jersey, carry a ball around, and tell people they make a million dollars a year.. That does not mean they are a "NBA Athlete". 

      So then if you use that person which claims they are a NBA Athlete to describe the people that actually do play for professional teams, you are applying a characteristic to one group of people because of someone who simply "claims" they are such..

      This is irrational.

      God bless..

      smile

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So, I'm curious. Do you think pointing out a belief that those, and other groups who don't agree with you, are bound for  eternal hell is a loving stance?  smile

        1. 0
          Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No. No. No. No. No. No.

          In case I haven't made myself clear, my answer to this question is NO.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hey Mo.  I'm sorry.  I didn't see this one.  I apologize if I posted that to you.  I thought I was talking to Vector.  I have nothing but the utmost respect for your take on Christianity. smile

            1. 0
              Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Haha....no worries!  You did post it to someone else.  I just hijacked it to make my opinion known.  And, I have as much respect for your open questioning of it.  smile

        2. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What about watch out there is a shark in the water coming towards you.

          Is that a loving response?

          Or would I be showing intolerance if I warned someone in a loud voice about that?

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            This Shark actually exist? Instead of conferring some imaginary power on the one doing the warning?

            You have no authority John. None. You are trying to gain some with fear. I am not afraid.

            This is why your religion causes so many conflicts. Fear always causes conflicts and you try to spread it like a seed. sad

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes but there is a shark and he will get you, BUT if you repent and turn from your sinful ways He will not bite you instead just the opposite will happen, He will love you and caudal right up to you and make your world so much better, you can grab hold of that fin and ride the wide oceans with a loving friend and so much more (that you don't believe in smile  )

              Of course if you perceive the shark to only be psychotic then you will panic, make splashy sounds and the shark will zoom in on you.

              Either way you get what you think you will get. Amazing how that works huh.

              sorry for the fear lol

          2. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm afraid I would have to agree with mark on this one, and man, I don't usually like to do that. If one believes and one does not, pointing out any perceived danger to the non believer is pointless, at best, unless the non believer has never heard of christianity.

            But that isn't really an answer to the OP, unless you are saying that spreading the gospel is your primary definition of christian love.

            1. aguasilver profile image87
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              My primary definition of Christian love is enacted daily by millions of believers in our world.

              It has little or nothing to do with whatever is said in the forums, which are basically places to let off stream or rant for a while, goad others, or hold mass debates over nonsense issues.

              In other words they are a place to waste time.

              Nothing is achieved, nothing learned, no opinion changed and no productive element produced.

              The ONLY reason to visit here is to gain followers who seem to gravitate to those who can amuse them here.

              It also seems to increase ones Hub score, maybe it's seen as communally endeavoring to participate?

              Now I will be more productive, and sleep, heavy day tomorrow.

          3. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Not really, it is our own evolved altruistic nature of not wanting to see harm done to a fellow human.

            Japanese culture, for example, is quite contrast to western views in that they look out for the other guy as opposed to looking out for number one. smile

            smile

      2. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Exactly. smile

        1. vector7 profile image60
          vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          At least I don't claim Jesus and deny His doctrine..

          lol

          I didn't write the law. I just tell it.

          smile

          1. Jewels profile image82
            Jewelsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            There is no point telling the law.  You must become the teachings.  This is where pseudo christians fail miserably.  Spewing scriptures is not, never was, and never will be the same as being Christian.

            1. Jerami profile image79
              Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hello,  good to see that you are still doing ?

                 That is right,  what you said.

                Why would anyone want to be the reflection that comes off of the pool.

                 When they can be the cause of the reflection?

                If I understood you correctly??

            2. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Please explain where  you got the notion that I don't do so? And pseudo Christians are not Christians. Your judgement is incorrect. Please refer below for the explanation. (1)


              And if telling people the Gospel is not what Christians are to do then why Christ's teaching to do so?

              Matthew 28:19-20

              19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

              Mark 16:15

              15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

              "Spewing" scriptures is what Christ said to do. Preach.

              Yes you must do your best to follow the law. But you cannot fulfill the law yourself. That is exactly why we need Jesus, and why we are to preach...

              smile

              1. Cagsil profile image83
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Uh oh.... roll

                @Jewels, be easy on the kid. lol

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Any rational statements regarding the topic, or just more useless side comments?

                  big_smile

                  1. Cagsil profile image83
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Add to the topic?

                    What is Christian Love? On one perspective it's religious stranglehold on the masses. On one perspective, it's not Christian at all, but is based on Jesus' true teachings.

                    The love you are suppose to have for self is no different than the love you are to have for someone else.

                    I know plenty of people, who have successfully demonstrated the love is true, and many of the were Christians, as per, the average person's understanding of what it means to be Christian.

                    Those who fail in understanding that their actions speak volumes about themselves, fails in the being responsible for themselves.

                    If you love yourself, then you would not fail at your responsibility to yourself. Thus, leading you to not fail your responsibility to the rest of the human race.

                    People talk a good game when it comes to love, but actions speak louder than words. You talk a good game with regards to the bible, but you fail in understanding the love you're supposedly to derive from said book.

                    Would you die for a complete stranger? If not, then you don't actually understand Jesus' teachings.

                    That's my add to the topic. Don't like it? Too bad.

                2. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  (1)

                  ""  "How many Christians today do you know using gays or Muslims as their examples of who they love?"

                  If someone claims to be a Christian and does not the things which Christ teaches, why do you ask why Christians do this or that?

                  For you know those who act like a Christian are a Christian. While those that only claim they are Christians are not Christians at all if they do not fit the description.

                  Anyone can claim to be anything. That does not make them so. Using the word "Christians" to describe people who don't act like Christians is like using the word "NBA Athlete" to describe people that don't even play professional basketball.

                  They do not do that which makes them what they claim. Anyone can wear a jersey, carry a ball around, and tell people they make a million dollars a year.. That does not mean they are a "NBA Athlete".

                  So then if you use that person which claims they are a NBA Athlete to describe the people that actually do play for professional teams, you are applying a characteristic to one group of people because of someone who simply "claims" they are such..

                  This is irrational. ""

            3. Daniel Carter profile image91
              Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Written with grace and wisdom as always, Jewels!

    3. Jewels profile image82
      Jewelsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      thebrucebeat.  You have it totally wrong and you have confirmed your lack of understanding of the teachings.  Which is of course not surprising as most modern day 'christians' also misunderstand.   The love of Christ and Christ Consciousness are the same.  It is a state of BEING.  It is what you be as you do.  As you embody this magnificent virtue, you then 'emit' the state and others will want to be around you. 

      As has been mentioned by many in this topic there is compassion which is a verb.  You have compassion for people,  you become Christ.  This is the fundamental teachings of Jesus the teacher.  You can only spread these teachings correctly by BEING your spiritual essence.  If you can get that you will become Christian in the true sense of the word.  Otherwise you're just foolishly pretending.

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        My goodness.. Christians aren't Christians unless they are doing God's will and follow Christ's teachings.

        Those that don't are NOT Christians.

        And you cannot "become" Christ, which means "The Messiah".. He is a savior - hence the name...

        You can be a faithful follower.. But you "need" Jesus, you don't become Him. Please no one think they are going to "become" the Son of God......

        roll

        It's ridiculous how many times I need to tell people this.

        It is posted twice on this thread, thoroughly explained...

        Please use logical reasoning.......

        Have a good one everybody... 

        smile

        1. Jewels profile image82
          Jewelsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          DOH!   This is part of what gets you into trouble.  If you truly understand the teachings of Jesus you will understand that YOU are to follow in his footsteps and find the Christ within yourself.  You do not get that by spewing scriptures.  You can post your thoughts and opinions as much as you like, you can not change anyone but yourself.  You are to find your spiritual self, otherwise you will always be a follower.  Until you understand this you will always be fooling yourself.

          Furthermore, because of this lack of awareness of your spiritual essence you cannot truly understand what Christian love is, not the true Christian love.  It's impossible from this external standpoint you are displaying.  Perhaps you can credit yourself with a watered down version of Christian virtues.  These virtues are seen by your actions in the world.  Generally Christian virtues are not seen from the pulpit.  It is a priest's actions that credits the man, not what he speaks of.

          And maybe you could think before you TELL people things and address your own inner life first.  Jesus would have wanted you to do that.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "DOH!   This is part of what gets you into trouble.  If you truly understand the teachings of Jesus you will understand that YOU are to follow in his footsteps and find the Christ within yourself."

            I'll give you one thing, I admit I did become a little frustrated. But I think the point made of following Christ should be a little more clear to the public that it isn't a magic act. People interpret things really perversely often times...

            "You can post your thoughts and opinions as much as you like, you can not change anyone but yourself."

            That is a very well made point. But I don't just post opinions. I back everything I say with scripture... And Christ's words are what influences a person, and they are what people need to know.

            John 6:63

            63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

            ~Jesus



            If I am to "spew" any words on the forums, I believe Christ's carry a vast majority more wisdom, knowledge, and truth.. Not to mention.. LIFE. The scriptures are exactly what we derive the very person of Christ from. If I post not scripture, then where do people see Christ? From MY words?

            I do believe our actions speak much louder than words, and that they should be in line with Christ completely. But let's face it. There aren't many doors to open, or poor to feed within these forums.. I'm a little lost on why people keep telling me I need to "show" and not just tell, when they cannot see a single thing I do during my day.

            Not to mention. The greatest gift Christ offers is the salvation He bought on the cross for everyone to live. If I don't tell people of His amazing selfless gift, then am I not being selfish and keeping the good news to myself?

            John 8:51

            51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

            ~Jesus

            The scriptures are what Jesus said. And Jesus says they are life, and save men from death. I have changed considerably since I became a Christian, because I know what I must do. And that is tell everyone both small and great of the opportunity they have to have their sins forgiven.

            It is work for me to teach, and learn scripture.. And I don't like being ridiculed by those who don't believe. I do it because I love them and everyone, and I spend much time trying to spread a good knowledge. I don't do any of this for myself. Freely I have received.. Freely I shall give..



            "...you cannot truly understand what Christian love is, not the true Christian love.  It's impossible from this external standpoint you are displaying."

            Internal things are between one's self and God...

            Matthew 6:6

            6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

            It is a personal relationship with God, that is not to be boasted about before men. Yes, "I love God" and "God is good" ...  But not.. "I am righteous... favoured by God.."  Raising God up in glory, not one's self.

            And the love Christ taught of is simple. Here are His own words:

            John 15:13

            13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

            ~Jesus

            "Perhaps you can credit yourself with a watered down version of Christian virtues."

            I don't credit myself with anything except the proclamation that I love God, and Christ Jesus died for my sins.

            And I don't have a pulpit, nor do I stand in front of one. If God ever ask me to I certainly would. But amazingly that is the power of God which teaches me in my sincere efforts, and I'm often mistaken for a minister.

            I do think very much so while posting. Along with looking up scripture and verifying that I'm not teaching someone the wrong thing. I also don't like to be told what Jesus would want me to do when I have His very words right here.

            I think you have good intentions. But you don't have anything but secular words that you are attributing to Jesus with nothing to back or verify the truth of it. That is exactly what scripture is for. Had it not been put into scripture, you wouldn't know truth from lies from the men who spoke of Him.

            I do not "spew" scriptures. They are used to address the words I speak and show I am telling exactly what Christ Jesus says. Without scriptures I can say anything I want and make all sorts of invalid claims.. But I prefer to show people so they do not need to doubt me, as there are many, many liars in the world today.

            I teach what Christ taught. I don't just use His name within my own opinions.

            smile

            1. Jewels profile image82
              Jewelsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Babble babble babble, you are making this forum your pulpit!  You are not getting it.  You are not to tell the words you are to become them.  Why do you need to refer back to scriptures to verify what is inside of you?

              You are looking at the bible from the standpoint of rationality.  You are to learn to go beyond the mind.  The mind is of course that instrument the congnizes, puts everything into a nice box so you feel in control of it all.  But he who satisfies the mind alone is a fool.

              Truth is only found within.  You must learn to go inside yourself and find God, find Christ, find Christ Consciousness.  Love yourself the same as you say you love God.  This is what Jesus did.  He meditated, he found his spirit, he found the part of him that united with Christ.  You are no different, you are a (hu)man, you have the means, you have the ability, you have the time.  Do it.   You have to learn to understand the teachings from the physical and the metaphysical.  If you have no means to do that, find the way to do it.  Find a teacher that will experientially show you how.  This is what I did and this is why I understand the difference.  It is not via scriptures it is via experience.   Go beyond the personal relationship with God and make it a transpersonal relationship.   Learn to know what the difference is.

              You will never never never find your Christ thru reading scriptures.  You find it by going inside yourself and becoming the teachings.  Continually telling people to read the scriptures does nothing.  It never has and never will.  (Especially as the bible has been bastardized to death and misunderstood).  You clearly misunderstand if you continually take an external source as your reference.  Hopefully sooner rather than later you  take your own centered self as your reference.  If by now you do not know what virtue is your scriptures will not help.

              The problem with 'teachers' is that they never learn, they never apply the teachings to themselves, they think they know it all and it is their path in life to tell people what to do..  You must always see yourself as the student otherwise you fall into the same trap as every other scripture reader. 

              Perhaps don't be Christian and all that you perceive it to be.  Be yourself first and really really understand what that state of Self is, and then being Christian becomes clear.

              The true meaning of Christian Love eludes the masses. Sadly it does.  I understand 'Jesus' better than you think and find your words a cheap shot of ignorance.   I have experienced some of the states he has, this is why I understand. Nothing I say is invalid yet proving it to you is a fruitless exercise and so you invalidate me because of opinion.   You must have these experiences yourself by your own practice.

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You have incredibly good thoughts, but I think the 'throwing pearls to swine' metaphor might be appropriate. He's been building to a crescendo for a while now. I don't think he can hear anyone but himself.

              2. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "You are not getting it.  You are not to tell the words you are to become them."

                Please tell me what all 7 of those paragraphs are for if you're not to "tell" the words?

                And people who don't like me don't like the Bible. I don't put opinions in anything. And if I do I flat out say it's my opinion.

                Everyone can notice just_curious' personal attacks. She has more to say about me than anything the OP has anything to do with no matter what the question is.

                And throwing pearls before swine is a scripture as well.

                Matthew 7:6

                6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

                ~Jesus

                He's talking about things of God.. Hence the "holy" in the sentence.

                I hear just fine. Mostly nonsense though with nothing but opinions. You don't even quote books or state and explain experiences... Nothing.

                I will certainly leave you two alone in the unreasonable notion that you know more about Christianity than Christ Himself. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, and I'm not attempting disrespect. I'm being honest.

                And I'm glad you flat out called me ignorant. It shows just how Christlike you are. No need for input from me.

                smile

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Vektor, if I remember correctly, you called me beelzebub. I didn't consider it a personal attack. The point of my comment is you listen to no one. You preach. Jewel had insightful things to say, yet you refuse to listen. Sorry if an honest observation is considered to be a personal attack. Perhaps you could practice what you love to preach and stop attacking others with this notion that they are headed for hell if they don't follow your lead. And stop crying foul. If you can't speak directly to me when you have a comment directed at me, you shouldn't find it odd that I would follow suit.

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    For everyone to know what I have done, and not done.

                    "Vektor, if I remember correctly, you called me beelzebub. I didn't consider it a personal attack."
                    -just_curious

                    "Wow what a believer in Christ you are. Beelzebub has taught you well..."
                    -vector7

                    And it wouldn't have been a personal attack even if you said so. I was pointing out the disagreement with Christ's teachings.

                    THIS:

                    "I don't think he can hear anyone but himself."


                    Is a personal attack stating that I don't consider the words of the other posters. And in fact I do. I even quote what they say to address what "they said" directly.

                    And if you wouldn't say things like that up there and like:

                    "Well said vektor. Now that you've admitted your religion is made up, what's your next move?"
                    -just_curious

                    And would spell the name correctly instead of trying to be funny then I may be more obliged to answer your replies. You don't like scriptures, and that's fine. But don't tell me not to post them, that's (at least of now) still within my rights and we're in a "RELIGION" forum.

                    Go to the secular forums if you don't want scriptures. AND it's posted under Christianity, the Bible and Jesus, ABOUT "Christian" love.. By YOU.

                    Where does Christianity come from???

                    THE BIBLE...

                    smile

  5. 0
    SirDentposted 5 years ago

    To be honest, I can't recall ever saying I love everybody.  I should, but I have not gotten to that point yet.  Some I love and some I do not.  God is still working on me, especially in that aspect.  One day I will be there and can say with honesty that I love everyone.  Until then, everyone will just have to wait.

    1. Jewels profile image82
      Jewelsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Sir Dent, I wish there was a 'like' button here cause I like what you're saying.  Very honest smile

  6. Pandoras Box profile image82
    Pandoras Boxposted 5 years ago

    "Instinctively gravitate towards compassion" as opposed to what? We're not one or the other, we're all things.

  7. Pandoras Box profile image82
    Pandoras Boxposted 5 years ago

    It's a natural byproduct of being a species with an advanced brain. We observe, we connect, we solve.

    Love feels better than hate. Given the opportunity, it will prevail.

    But yes, that whole advanced brain thing does give us other thought processes which may subvert that. It doesn't do away with the ability to feel compassion, but it may affect what we do with it.

    1. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Life coming into existence just to die and disappear is not a normal phenomena.. Death is a gate.

      Information in a designed machine (The human body-With digital coded instructions) is implanted with it's 'designed' structure and functions from an 'external' source. Intelligence does not not come from within. If this were so, we would not have so many species extinct. Rather we would see them burst into amazing new things.. Which we note is not happening.

      The whole evolution thing is old and outdated with no basis. Most people are beginning to realise and claim there is "some" intelligence that created them. They just don't choose what.

      Love is from that source. Which you may not claim my God, but it is from Him..

      smile

  8. topgunjager profile image61
    topgunjagerposted 5 years ago

    Loving everyone is a delusion Christians like to promote. It's a complete lie. It's not possible to love everyone or everything on this planet, but we can however learn to respect each other.

    1. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What you just said is the lie.

      You can only go one of two directions.

      You cannot travel in two different directions at the same time..

      Either you choose left or right, good or bad, up or down, love or hate..

      The world is full of hatred. Do you think automatic weapons are for hunting? And there are more fully automatic weapons in the world than any other kind.

      I believe the dilusion is that we can fully respect another without love.

      If you don't love, you will certainly choose to be hateful at some point or another. Seen it all my life.

      Nice attempt at trying to justify not loving people though.

      smile

    2. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I like the way you think.

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "Loving everyone is a delusion Christians like to promote. It's a complete lie."
        -topgunjager

        "I like the way you think."
        -just_curious



        Wow what a believer in Christ you are. Beelzebub has taught you well...

        smile

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          See. This is the type of thing that irritates me..don't reference me in another post, simply because you don't want to hit a reply button to say it directly to me.  I don't believe in your god vector. And I owe you a debt of gratitude. Your insane posts helped me see how ludicrous the whole thing is. Please. Post away. It will help keep opening people's eyes.

          And what's with the reference to beelzebub?

          1. 0
            Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            yes, this forum was an eye-opener to me too

            1. 0
              SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Eye opener for me also.  Showed me that just because you might love someone, you should not always say so.  I imagine some thing are best kept as secrets because not all can stand to be loved.

              1. 0
                Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                no, it's just that people who make those kinds of statements (loving EVERYONE) don't gain credibility or respect

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



                  I would venture to guess that most of them really mean it.  I also state that I try to love everyone, but am unable to do so, at least right now.

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Sir Dent, I have a great deal of respect for you for this statement. It's an honest stand on how you see who you are.

                  2. 0
                    Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I expect most of them are sincere in that they really believe they love everyone. I think they delude themselves though.  Your honest answer earlier would earn more respect in my books

              2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                SirDent, I learning to not always say so in these forums. I can see that some of the unbelievers can not stand to be loved and reject it. In the next breath, they whine about "where is the love from christians"? Some people are hard to please. This forum was an eye opener for me and many of the other forums also. God bless you smile

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't suppose it has occurred to you that mouthing words and exhibiting behavior that defines other words are in direct conflict? I read your post to bailey bear. Saying sorry, them telling her you hope she comes back to the lord before it's too late. Too late for what? You know you're referencing your idea of hell. And she does too.

                  I honestly don't see how the obvious problem escapes anyone. You are rejecting her with your words more than embracing her. It isn't love, it's judgement by your standards; without any consideration of her opinion. It's a high and mighty stand. You have no right being upset when it offends someone. You went out of your way to do it.

                  1. 0
                    Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    WOC reminds me of my mother in many ways.  Think she means well, but cannot see how offensive/hurtful their comments can be.

                  2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                    Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    just_curious, No, I don't have my idea about hell. Yes my statement was referencing to hell according to the word of God, and the word of God is not a book of opinions as you seem to think. Yes it was love when I stated " I hope you come back before it's too late." You are not a part of me, so you can not determine if my response to her was not done with love. I did not not go out of my way to offend her. Shame on you to jump to that conclusion. Hope you feel better hmm

                2. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Leave it alone WOC.

                  It has no end..

                  smile

                  1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                    Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    vector, You got that right. I have left it alone after responding to their post. big_smile

  9. qwark profile image61
    qwarkposted 5 years ago

    We humans are such an "unevolved" lot.

    WE are so intellectually infantile, that we have not yet been able to rise above the shoal waters of primitive misunderstanding and confusion.

    We are unable to differentiate fact from fiction.

    When a fact, proven by empiricism, is offered to the majority of us, human imagination creates fears which frustrate intellectual movement into the world of "truths!"

    The age old "concept" of god/s is contrived by childish, human imagination.

    God/s are engendered by superstition and fear caused by abject human ignorance.

    The learned/enlightened will not consider the "concept" as being worthy of consideration as a "reality."

    Those who believe in supernatural entities are, in my mind, the lesser evolved of mankind and they, insidiously, jeopardise all extant life on this planet.

    Qwark

    1. Jewels profile image82
      Jewelsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Glad you said "in my mind".  It ensures you are speaking of your opinions and rational logic.  Thankfully there are pioneers working as we speak on expanding our understanding of consciousness.  In the world of science everything appears to be siphoned into the end product of materialism (materialistic reductionism).  It's not satisfying and never will because not everything is reduceable to this end.

      What is understood as superstition is merely one person's inability to broaden their reality.

      1. qwark profile image61
        qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Jewel:

        I can't speak for others. My opinions are, of course, mine.

        "logic" IS rational.

        "Materialism" is an evolved characteristic of man.

        Down thru the ages, he who has gained the most, gains power!

        That is deeply imbedded in the genetic programming of us: humans!

        Unfortunately we are a very "fertile" and productive species.

        We havn't learned, yet, an important fact; that because of our gained anomaly i.e. "consciousness." we have been able to attain a level of dominion over all life and really, have no natural enemies but ourselves! That throws the "natural" balance of life aside and places us and all life in great jeopardy of being ended..or at least reduced maximally.

        Those who you speak of who are dedicating there lives to bringing understanding and with that "adaptability" to a species of life, ARE THE FEW and, I'm afraid are going to offer too little, too late.

        "What is understood as superstition is merely one person's inability to broaden their reality."

        Yes. Superstition is just an irrational belief that has no foundation in fact and can be mesmerizing to the point of unreasonable commitment! We see that everyday of our lives amongst those who are abjectly ignorant and maleable.

        It will only get worse over the next 50 yrs as population in 3rd world nations burgeons and suffering and deprivation exceed humanity's ability to "cure."

        All we can do is depend upon the old superstition that crossed fingers bring us luck.

        I've got 'em crossed on both hands!

        Qwark  smile:

        1. Jewels profile image82
          Jewelsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I concur with people not broadening their consciousness - it's sad. 

          I came across this article The Death Delusion which I found fantastic as it left the reader in an open frame.  It's more in line with what my thoughts are.  You may or may not find it of interest. http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/7yRpot/ba … press.com/

          I have absolutely no affiliation with the author.  It's just a great read.  Hope you like it.

  10. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Just once, I would like to see a source other than the son of a minister and an indoctrinate religionist as a credible source instead of links to people who have an agenda.
    Most scientists don't start research with the prerequisite that goddunnnit.
    Gimme a break vector!

  11. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    Own the conflict Mark.

    Do you feel conflicted?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Not at all.

      Sorry you think a world without these conflicts is not a good thing.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You and I dont see the world the same way.

        But Im not trying to force you to see things my way ,by insulting your background.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Awww. How have I insulted your background exactly? You were the one bought up my education.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yea right.

            I got thicker thin than that.

            Besides money ,education ,status has absolutely nothing to do with Faith.

            Easier for a rich man to get through the eye of a needle than to use his riches to make it into heaven.
            Moral...Cant buy ya way in.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              What on earth has this utter nonsense got to do with anything. If you are daft enough to swallow the idea that it is OK for the rich to step all over you in life because they will get what is coming to them after they die - that is your business. sad

              Do some research woman.

              You know I don't believe this rubbish - right?

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                nunh unhh??    roll

                Your hilarious sometimes Mark..  lol

                smile

  12. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    Humans didn't come from monkeys, we both evolved from a related ancestor


    Which ancestor might that be?


    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/1232797.jpg

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I never said we came from monkeys. I said we were related.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o … _evolution

      Dear me. No wonder you religionists cause so many wars. sad

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I repeat -Which ancestor??

        You dont know huh.

        Oh dear this is why you are irritable perhaps?



        By the way your 'this is why your religion cause so many wars"  quote is up to $18 now Mark.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Did not read it then? Try this one:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

          It is not a specific person you know - like Adam. It is a family. And it was millions of years ago.

          Oh - I see - I cannot introduce you personally, therefor Jesus is the son of god? lol

          Little wonder your religion causes so many conflict. sad

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol

            Keep putting that pouting face on there mark.. It's cute.   wink

            smile

    2. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I hope you don't mind that I left out your childish picture from your quote?

      This is where the lineage diverted:

      Sahelanthropus tchadensis - 6-7 million years ago.
      Orrorin tugenensis - 6 million years ago.
      Ardipithecus ramidus - 4.5 million years ago.

  13. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    You twist everything roll

    Hardly know where to start ,so guess what I wont.

    Its Sunday ,Im off to the flea market.

    Elephant ears are so good ,specially coated with brown sugar tongue

    1. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      yuck Kiwi!!

      lol

      big_smile

  14. habee profile image91
    habeeposted 5 years ago

    I'm a Christian, and I have empathy and compassion for other humans as well as for animals. Call it love, if you wish. Would I feel the same way/do the things I do to help if I weren't a Christian? I honestly don't know. I do know that Christianity - or any religion, for that matter - does not hold a monopoly on compassion/good deeds. I worked with a math teacher once who was a confirmed atheist, and he was one of the most compassionate, altruistic individuals I've ever known. He was always helping others.

    Something that irks me about some of my fellow Christians: they "talk the talk," but they don't "walk the walk." Actions are much louder than words. Some of these folks are pious on Sundays and a$$holes the rest of the week. They talk about "Christian love," but they don't put it into action. The ones I'm talking about are judgmental, intolerant, and incredibly stingy.

    1. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Habee:

      "I'm a Christian, and I have empathy and compassion for other humans as well as for animals."

      WE ARE ANIMALS!

      Qwark

    2. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well said, habee.  In my original response to this OP, I was very specific in addressing what Christian love should be.  I did not say that it was behavior exclusive to Christians, though there are those who felt that I did.  I apologize to anyone I may have offended by implying in any way that non-Christians are not capable of love, compassion, etc... What I meant was that love/empathy/compassion are not instinctive for human beings and often requires a stepping above self that isn't always easy.

      There are those who are flat out good people, and do not call themselves Christians.  There are just as many evil Christians.  Wear the label, fine, but if you can't live up to it, keep your mouth shut.  Better yet, keep your mouth shut period, and let your actions speak for themselves.

      I agree with you wholeheartedly on this one!  Very nicely put.

      smile

      1. habee profile image91
        habeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Motown, I was in now way referring to you! You know the type I'm talking about. They preach about love, forgiveness, and generosity, but they don't practice it.

        1. 0
          Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, I took no offense at all!  And, yes, I do know the type you're talking about - I have them in my family and among my dearest friends.  It gets frustrating.  And, frankly, it's what gives anyone who chooses to call themselves a Christian a VERY bad name.  Hope you're feeling better, btw, and recovering well!

    3. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Cursing isn't better or finger pointing. It should be stated that if they act like that every day but not on Sunday, they simply aren't Christians.

      If they act like a Christian they are Christians. Christians make mistakes, but if they repeat the same behaviour over and over. That's not Christian.

      Matthew 7:3

      3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

      ~Jesus

      Just saying..

      Really not trying to be ugly. Sincerely.

      God bless..



      smile

  15. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Religion has nothing to do with love, it is conditional love, which is something altogether different to love.

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey ernest. I agree, in that is the way it appears to be put into action here. But that is not the way it is meant to be. Of course, you know that. You've studied up on the religion. Why do you think it is so difficult for people to understand that this type of behavior is a mockery of the lessons they were meant to learn? It's an ongoing mystery.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think a lot of people love themselves in a way that is useful or meaningful to others.

        Anything that asks for a criteria is not love, love is something we share by doing for others because we have real self love.
        Sharing love is not some great deed, it is as easy as breathing! smile
        Wanna show love??? Do the dishes! smile

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol I suppose that means my husband has a difficult time with this concept. You're right though. It's all about action. I've had that discussion a thousand times. I don't remember the song, but one came out here I absolutely loved. Something acapella if I remember. About never saying it, but showing it. They're only words otherwise.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Exactly! I described how children learn love on my hub. "love is a doing thing"

            I have just returned from giving love to my little ones by reading a bedtime story, I gave some love to my daughter by helping to keep the house in shape, I gave love to my son, by helping him give love to his girlfriend by buying her a bike.
            I have had a very loving day! So has my son smile

  16. vector7 profile image60
    vector7posted 5 years ago

    There isn't a SINGLE example of evolution.

    Only species dying out.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ex … xtinctions

    All those dead species without a single "evolution" of ONE?

    More like the opposite of evolution...




    smile

    1. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      By the way it shows 306 listed without even counting them. And that is only from four lists with most of the extinctions averaging within the last 2,000 years by your scientist's estimates.

      The earth by your scientist's estimates is 4.54 billion years old.

      At the rate of 306 species dying out every 2,000 years... (and probably more)

      4.54 billion divided by 2,000 years is 2,270,000 . Times that by 306 species and you get 694,620,000.

      That's 694.62 million species extinct by your scientist's numbers.

      Here's a quote for you:

      "The National Science Foundation’s “Tree of Life” project estimates that there could be anywhere from 5 million to 100 million species on the planet, but science has only identified about 2 million."

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20109284/



      So what your trying to tell me is that in the 4.54 billion years 694 million species have died out and there is only 100 million on the planet total?? And possibly a lot less???

      And you still think your evolution holds value in rational logic?




      At 100 million species on the planet and 306 dying out every 2,000 years...
      (and again probably a lot less on earth than 100 million... and probably more dying out than 306 every 2,000 years - I'm being generous)

      100,000,000 species divided by the 306 that die out you get 326,797...

      Times that by every 2,000 years and you get 653,594,000.......

      You mean that with at the rate of extinction formulated by your scientist's numbers the earth has been here for 4.54 billion years but life will only be able sustain itself for another 653 million years?



      Shouldn't the number of species increase with time if evolution is true???

      Yes.. It should. But it doesn't.

      Because there are millions dying and none evolving...


      Have a good one..

      smile

      1. 0
        Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        go and try and fit all those animals on a wooden boat then.  See if they all fit with all their food etc for nearly a year.

        All those animals dying - what a cruel god you worship

        1. vector7 profile image60
          vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I can understand why you attack God rather than address the point I made.

          You have no reason to try to refute the fact that evolution isn't true.

          And it wouldn't make sense anyway.

          smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Dear me.

            http://activity.ntsec.gov.tw/lifeworld/english/content/images/en_evo_c6.jpg

            Did the new ones appear by majik wen god sed?

            Little wonder your religion causes so much hatred. sad

            1. aka-dj profile image79
              aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Ahh, THIS is proof!

              Why do you use drawings?
              Why not pictures?

              Of course, there was no-one around to take them gazillions of years ago.
              lol

              VERY rational. lol lol

              1. 0
                Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                the camera is a very recent invention, so why do you expect photos?  The fossilised bones are still around though

            2. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol

              Cute picture... Enjoy your bliss..

              smile

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Reality is not blissful. What gave you that idea? Reality just is. sad

                Did god do the majik making new species appear when old ones died out? lol lol

            3. aka-dj profile image79
              aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              In the words of a famous Atheist.
              Majick!

              lol

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No dj. The horse is a good example because of the massive amount of facts we have at our disposal. Sorry you prefer to attack knowledge in favor creating conflict in the name of Jesus. This would be the main reason your religion causes so many wars.

                Unless of course you have some more rational explanation as to why one species dies out and another similar, more well developed one emerges as the old one goes extinct? 

                We call this the "theory of evolution" to explain the proven measurable scientific facts and data we have that show animals evolving. We have even re-created the process in a laboratory.

                I am all ears.

                1. aka-dj profile image79
                  aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  All ears?

                  That's a first.

                  So, where did the giant bones come from?
                  They are the same class of evidence you use for evolution of the horse.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Dear me.

                    There are physical reasons why it is not possible for humans to grow this size.

                    http://www.hoax-slayer.com/giant-skeleton.html

                    Please deal with one thing at a time. I asked a reasonable question - wouldn't you say?

            4. habee profile image91
              habeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Cool! How did they get those equine to follow in a straight line like that??

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                They are well trained. smile

  17. aka-dj profile image79
    aka-djposted 5 years ago

    How about this then?
    At least it's a picture, and not an illustration.

    http://www.boingboing.net/images/_news_bigphotos_images_071214-giant-skeleton_big.jpg

    Was this US billions of years ago?

    Or, will this be how big we'll get, it we follow your evolutionary chart on horses?
    hmm

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Majik!

      Dear me dj - no wonder your religion is responsible for so many wars. sad

      1. aka-dj profile image79
        aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I see.
        No answer, so we revert back to copy and paste.

        That's cool. I know your MO pretty well by now. big_smile

    2. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

    3. aka-dj profile image79
      aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      EVOLUTION?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Dear me dj.

        Would you mind answering the question? I know you do not understand why it is not physically possible for humans to grow this big, but still.

        I have seen fossils. I have held them in my hand. I have touched petrified trees that no longer exist. There are millions of them scattered around the world. What is your explanation for the obvious extinction of species combined with the emergence of a new, more well developed, similar species around the same time frame?

        This "Liars For Jesus" (TM) silly fake photo is what you base your faith on? Dear me - no wonder you need to start so many fights. sad

        1. vector7 profile image60
          vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And yet with all you've seen I guess it all stopped once you were born so you couldn't see evolution in action?

          Or maybe it just stopped in the past 150 years yeah?


          And you never addressed my above point about the number of extinctions there are.

          You also didn't address the link dj provided for his evidence. The whole world's evidence from your very own secular research by the way..

          http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/thermodynamics.html

          Here's some help:


          """"   The Second Law of Thermodynamics, which is accepted as one of the basic laws of physics, holds that under normal conditions all systems left on their own tend to become disordered, dispersed, and corrupted in direct relation to the amount of time that passes. Everything, whether living or not, wears out, deteriorates, decays, disintegrates, and is destroyed. This is the absolute end that all beings will face one way or another, and according to the law, the process cannot be avoided.

          This is something that all of us have observed. For example if you take a car to a desert and leave it there, you would hardly expect to find it in a better condition when you came back years later. On the contrary, you would see that its tires had gone flat, its windows had been broken, its chassis had rusted, and its engine had stopped working. The same inevitable process holds true for living things.

          The second law of thermodynamics is the means by which this natural process is defined, with physical equations and calculations.

          This famous law of physics is also known as the "law of entropy." In physics, entropy is the measure of the disorder of a system. A system's entropy increases as it moves from an ordered, organized, and planned state towards a more disordered, dispersed, and unplanned one. The more disorder there is in a system, the higher its entropy is. The law of entropy holds that the entire universe is unavoidably proceeding towards a more disordered, unplanned, and disorganized state.

          The truth of the second law of thermodynamics, or the law of entropy, has been experimentally and theoretically established. All foremost scientists agree that the law of entropy will remain the principle paradigm for the foreseeable future. Albert Einstein, the greatest scientist of our age, described it as the "premier law of all of science." Sir Arthur Eddington also referred to it as the "supreme metaphysical law of the entire universe."

          Evolutionary theory ignores this fundamental law of physics. The mechanism offered by evolution totally contradicts the second law. The theory of evolution says that disordered, dispersed, and lifeless atoms and molecules spontaneously came together over time, in a particular order, to form extremely complex molecules such as proteins, DNA, and RNA, whereupon millions of different living species with even more complex structures gradually emerged. According to the theory of evolution, this supposed process-which yields a more planned, more ordered, more complex and more organized structure at each stage-was formed all by itself under natural conditions. The law of entropy makes it clear that this so-called natural process utterly contradicts the laws of physics.

          Evolutionist scientists are also aware of this fact. J. H. Rush states:

              In the complex course of its evolution, life exhibits a remarkable contrast to the tendency expressed in the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Where the Second Law expresses an irreversible progression toward increased entropy and disorder, life evolves continually higher levels of order.365

          The evolutionist author Roger Lewin expresses the thermodynamic impasse of evolution in an article in Science:

              One problem biologists have faced is the apparent contradiction by evolution of the second law of thermodynamics. Systems should decay through time, giving less, not more, order.366

          Another defender of the theory of evolution, George Stravropoulos, states the thermodynamic impossibility of the spontaneous formation of life and the impossibility of explaining the existence of complex living mechanisms by natural laws in the well-known evolutionist journal American Scientist:

              Yet, under ordinary conditions, no complex organic molecule can ever form spontaneously, but will rather disintegrate, in agreement with the second law. Indeed, the more complex it is, the more unstable it will be, and the more assured, sooner or later, its disintegration. Photosynthesis and all life processes, and even life itself, cannot yet be understood in terms of thermodynamics or any other exact science, despite the use of confused or deliberately confusing language.367

          As we have seen, the evolution claim is completely at odds with the laws of physics. The second law of thermodynamics constitutes an insurmountable obstacle for the scenario of evolution, in terms of both science and logic. Unable to offer any scientific and consistent explanation to overcome this obstacle, evolutionists can only do so in their imagination.For in stance, Jeremy Rifkin notes his belief that evolution overwhelms this law of physics with a "magical power":

              The Entropy Law says that evolution dissipates the overall available energy for life on this planet. Our concept of evolution is the exact opposite. We believe that evolution somehow magically creates greater overall value and order on earth.368

          These words well indicate that evolution is a dogmatic belief rather than a scientific thesis. """"






          But that means that "the obvious extinction of species 'combined' with the emergence of a new, more well developed similar species" is in direct opposition to the very law of nature?  wow..


          And you will not find any evolution happening today. They've been looking REALLY HARD for decades.. I've followed the data.

          Anyone can twist old bones onto a chart.

          And at least his photo proved your crayon illustration was a cheap attempt at any kind of refutation.



          "Jeremy Rifkin notes his belief that evolution overwhelms this law of physics with a "magical power"  lol 



          How about "Liars For Satan"...

          Dear me. It's no wonder you're all the time bringing up used up outdated theories...

          smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Dear me. Not going to refute nonsense - it has been done already. But - good cut and paste job. There are no contradictions in evolution. Nor has evolution stopped. It can be seen in action, and new species have been manipulated into being in a lab.

            No wonder your religion causes so many wars. sad

            "Liars for Jesus" (TM) lol

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              But what about the horses? They haven't changed a inch in the past 150 years..

              What happened to all that growth hormone you showed they had??  lol

              smile

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Unlike your Invisible Super Being - nature is not so fast.

                But - I see where you are coming from - I mean - if you have not seen it with your own eyes - it must be a lie right?

                Oh - wait........................... lol lol

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Well it's understandable for you to provide an illustration with no proof.

                  So you are admitting they die out much more rapidly than they could ever evolve? 

                  306 die in front of our eyes.. we see none evolve...

                  That means there should be no life on planet earth.... By your claims.. lol

                  smile

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Sorry you choose not to understand and instead attack knowledge. I know - it is scary learning stuff - I don't blame you for not bothering. Swallowing the majik pill is much, much easier. No work, no learning - nothink. Cut and paste some more biblical nonsense - I am sure that will make you feel better.

                    Sadly - this would be why your religion causes so many wars. sad

          2. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes Rifkin is a reform Jew. When will we start seeing "scientific" posts that have scientists instead of religionists with an agenda.

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The laws of physics are not religion.

              They are fact.

              Nice attempt though.

              smile

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this
                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this
                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    "The dominant view among scientists concerning the origin of anatomically modern humans is the "Out of Africa" or recent African origin hypothesis"

                    "This theory has been contradicted by recent evidence, although it has been suggested that non Homo sapiens Neanderthal genomes may have contributed about 4% of non-African heredity"

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution


                    This means they still have no idea.

                    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

                    Entitled   - ""  History of the term "Anthropogeny"  ""

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropogeny



                    A definition of the word Anthropogeny and the origin of the "word."

                    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

                    The word "theory" occurs 39 times in the making of this document.

                    The Laws of Physics are fact. Theories are not.


                    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_descent

                    "Common descent" is just a branch off of the "evolution" link you provided.


                    More theories..


                    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


                    And as for this one:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution


                    You need to provide information on how this came into being:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prokaryote


                    For the rest to be considered valid as it contradicts the Law of Physics that has just prior been pointed out.



                    smile

          3. 0
            Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            bet you have no idea what all that means.  The author of that doesn't know what they're talking about either, because if they did, they'd know that entropy applies to closed systems (ie no energy in or out) & earth is an open system - gets energy from sun.

            Basic science lesson:
            All living things build complex molecules which go against entropy.  How do they do this?  They require energy.  Where do they get their energy?  Animals get it from eating - ultimately plants.  Plants get it from the sun.
            Without the sun there would be no life.

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              "All living things build complex molecules which go against entropy."

              And they all die. Same end for every life form...

              Therefore... "Entropy"

              If there was no entropy.. They would live forever.

              No disorder. No breaking down..


              This is a very basic principle..




              You're misinterpreting your science lesson..

              1. 0
                Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No misinterpreting by me at all.  You fail to understand that all living things are 'built up' and to do this they require energy to form bonds - the sun ultimately provides that energy. 
                ENTROPY APPLIES IN A CLOSED SYSTEM - ie no energy coming in from outside, which is NOT the case with Earth & our son.
                Very basic principle. 
                Besides, did your god over-ride entropy according to you?

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Ok.

                  That's why we live forever right?

                  Argue with yourself.. Everyone here knows and see we break down and DIE..

                  No technical points needed...

                  Have a good one..

                  smile

                  1. 0
                    Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    whatever vector - you're unteachable

      2. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No not evolution, photoshop! lol

    4. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this
      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        A reasonable person would apologize for putting a fraudulent picture up here after reading that thread..... but I guess it's better not to read things that prove one wrong, and be prepared to bend the truth past breaking point to defend a belief that has already done the same.

        1. aka-dj profile image79
          aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks Earnie.
          I never actually claimed it was real, nor was it proof. So, I don't feel the need to apologise.
          The reason I used this image in the first place, is to dounter the line of equine evolition, as presented by Mark.
          To me, they fall in the same category of FAKE.

          Although the Bible does speak of giants pr-flood, I have no knowledge as to any skeletons having been found.

          As I said before, we can have some fun. Life doesn't have to be too serious, does it?

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I have seen the horse pics before, they accurately portray sequence.
            Here is some more simple information you may like to comment on. smile

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I found another photo too..

              http://vce-uk.com/WebRoot/StoreDaily/Shops/eshop409335/4BC4/4C1E/6AB4/43ED/F737/C31A/5AE3/E731/T30036_L_sheep-skeleton-ovis-aries.jpg

              Looks sorta like this one from your link huh?


              http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Equus_simplicidens_mounted_02.jpg


              The first one is a SHEEP... woww.. I guess that's where horses come from...

              Fits right in the sequence portrayal too.. 

              smile

              1. 0
                Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Since you've put a few skeletons up, I may as well comment on them.  BTW, scientists use more than the way the bones look when figuring out what is related to what.
                The 2 mammals in the photos each have 7 neck bones.  So do other mammals including humans, bats, giraffes & whales.  Why does a giraffe have only 7 neck bones with such a long neck, when birds with short necks can have more than twice that?

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  roll

                  Boy you really got the point huh?

                2. Onusonus profile image88
                  Onusonusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  So they can lick their backs ofcourse.

                  1. 0
                    Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    what, the birds or the giraffe?  My cat can lick his back - he has 7 neck bones

  18. bennybobbingle profile image60
    bennybobbingleposted 5 years ago

    Love is such a vague word.  I had a friend who waa a youth pastor, and he was always telling everybody, "Love you man.  Mean it."  But he would also say that he loved this movie or this particular food.  He also claimed unconditional love, but anybody who wouldn't live their Christian life the way he thought they should, he tended to slowly weed his way out of their life.  I have a lot of scars in reguards to Christian love.  I believe that love is meant to be unconditional with no secret motives of converting people to how you believe.

    1. vector7 profile image60
      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes. And yet the man is following his Bible as he should. Although Christ said it is not the healthy that need a physician but the sick, He also doesn't want us to be influenced by things opposite of what Jesus taught us to do.

      1 Corinthians 15:33

      33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

      This means the same thing as bad apples spoil good apples. And how many apples does it take to spoil good apples? One can spoil an entire barrel.

      I don't know his heart. But I know I have friends I dearly love that I can't hang out with because of the things they do. I tried once... I began to slip at the tongue...   Do I still love them and others like them? YES.. I love them so much I'd die for both of them. (they're twins) There are some people who completely hate me, and I love them dearly as well. They are PEOPLE.. They don't agree with me and have hard feelings against me, but why shouldn't I love them because they choose something different? I separate myself for the most part but I never turn a cold shoulder to someone.

      And Hell is real just as Jesus Christ taught it is, with descriptions such as  "everlasting fire" and "everlasting punishment" (Matthew 25:46 ; 25:41 ; 18:8)

      And with Hell being real it is NOT unloving to warn others about the torments of it.

      If you knew there was a cliff at the end of a road and you seen people driving in the direction of the cliff would you not try to get their attention and stop them?

      Is it unloving to warn people of danger that could hurt them? What if they tell you that you're unloving and there isn't a cliff down there when they stop and talk to you? And they tell you that you're crazy because they have a brand new map printed this year...

      People don't want to hear about danger if they enjoy the scenery of the road they're driving on and get to make their own decisions. You're spoiling all their fun and they think that you're saying you're smarter than they are and know something they don't.

      Take things how you want. Everyone else does. But Christians aren't unloving in what they do. Things are twisted about Christians a lot.

      And they claim Christians do this and that and the other. But those people are not Christians unless they back up what they are doing with the scriptures they are to follow.

      God bless..

      smile

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think it is very loving to warn people of impending danger.

        "Watch out for invisible fairies" doesn't seem like a warning I would respond to though. smile

        1. vector7 profile image60
          vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes of course... atheists and agnostics bring up fairies very often.

          I don't believe I've mentioned a word of a fairy on this entire site.

          smile

      2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
        Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        vector, Great points in your reply. I don't think no one would say it's unloving and hateful for someone to warn them if their house is on fire.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          WOC, I am not picking, this is just a comment on how it can be viewed from an non-believer type.

          It is 3AM, House is on fire, a person walks by and sees house on fire, wakes occupants, everyone happy.

          It is 3AM, A person walks by sees a house on fire, wakes occupants, occupants are mad because house not really on fire.

          House Fires are a real thing.

          Fires of hell, only apply to those who believe.

          If you warn a believer of the fires of hell, they believe so that could be considered a "loving act"

          If you warn a non-believer of the same...chances are, they are going to think you are harassing them and that, to them is not a "loving act".

          1. aka-dj profile image79
            aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Most people don't like being warned of future consequences to their actions, though.
            Take smoking for example.
            "Don't smoke. You're likely to get lung cancer, if you continue"
            "Mind your own business. Don't tell me what to do".
            Or,
            "Do't speed. You'll kill yourself, or others. Plus you'll get a fine if you get caught".
            "I'll drive the way I want!"

            I think it's a rebellious spirit (or attitude) that's the problem, not the warnings given. Even if the warnings are NOT perceived as loving, they still are in the best interest of the hearer.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I agree for the most part. People, in general, don't like thier flaws pointed out to them.

              As someone who smoked for over 20 years before I quit, I can tell you, it wasn't the fact that people pointed out that smoking was bad for my health...I knew that as well...It was that everyone and thier brother told me...day after day after day...

              I quit smoking because I wanted to...It took alot of will power and support. Do you want to know who I asked to support my quitting? The one non-smoker who never said one word to me about my smoking. And you know, he didn't use anything negative for support options...If I wimped out and smoked one day...he would say things like..."Don't worry. Tomorrow you will not smoke at all."

              Most people know what they are doing is "wrong"...Pointing that fact out to them, tends to make them feel like they are being attacked or judged.

              1. 69
                paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                A good approach; I appreciate

              2. aka-dj profile image79
                aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I hear you.
                In most cases I don't tell people they are going to hell. I rarely mention it as a major point. However, the consequences of sin (whether people know it or not) is that. The message is that Jesus is our saviour from ALL sin, and therefore it's consequences (hell).
                Forget what I may say, look at His message. People loved or hated Him, during His lifetime also, for speaking truth.
                My point in the previous post is that I am not responsible for other people's reactions to the meassage. I'm simply speaking truth. Hopefully, in a loving way, or a way that they can receive it.

                All this reactive stuff like "we don't want to hear it", "keep your religion to yourself", "stop shoving it down my throat" etc is just contentious people being argumentative to further their own views anyway.
                "If you don't want to hear it (in the Religion forum), what on earth are you doing here!" is my question. I have never bothered anyone with my beliefs in another forum.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I understand your point.

                  This forum is a good place to discuss religious topics.

                  Religious Truths are in the beliefs of the holder. Not everyone believes the same way.

                  Just the way someone may feel that the Muslim is wrong in his version of the truth, the same can be said about the Christian, Atheist, Wiccan or other belief system or lack there of.

                  Most non-believer types have the issue with something that is a belief system being called "truth".
                  And of course the believers don't understand how others can't see the "truth" that they see.

                  1. 69
                    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    sure it is

              3. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "Most people know what they are doing is "wrong"...Pointing that fact out to them, tends to make them feel like they are being attacked or judged."

                lol

                Dead on there DS..

                They are going to be judged, and they don't like being told that. But not by any of us. There is only one judge.. wink

                smile

            2. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Don't stick your religion to us in that case. You are clearly uneducated and not qualified to warn anyone of anything.

              Please listen to me because I know what is best for you. I am much, much better educated than you. This is obvious. Do as I say. I am right. I know. You are ignorant.

              Watch out!!!! Behind you !!!!!!!!!!!!!


              This would be why your religion causes so many wars. sad

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Warnings are liable to show up in a forum designated for the people that believe in them..

                Controlling little anti-Christ aren't you?

                smile

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually Vector, Mark has a philosophy.  I was calling this the Religion and Belief forum, but Double Scorpion pointed out it is Religion and Philosphy.  So, I guess Mark has as much right to be here as you do.  But, since you think I'm Beelzebub I know you won't trust my word for it.  Look at the top of your screen. smile

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I looked at the top of my screen. I do believe it's the same in yours..

                    "

                        * All Forums
                        * Religion and Philosophy
                        * Christianity, the Bible and Jesus
                        * What is Christian Love

                    "

                    copy and paste.. I love it.

                    He doesn't need to come telling us not to say anything regarding our beliefs in a forum designated to OUR beliefs..

                    I don't think anyone even addressed him directly there..  lol

                    That's absurd.. He should go to all the threads that are bashing God if he doesn't want to hear about the Christian Bible's teachings on God, Jesus, and Hell..

                    smile

            3. Woman Of Courage profile image60
              Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              dj, You have made some very good points of a rebellious attitude. I agree that the real problem is not the warning.

          2. 69
            paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this
          3. Woman Of Courage profile image60
            Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Double Scorpion, I see your point, but it does not mean is hell is not real simply because one denies or disbelieves it. I like your last sentence. "Unbeliever's think it's not a loving act." It doesn't mean what they think is true. One tend to think it's not loving because what is said makes them feel uncomfortable.

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              WOC can you not see the problem. Conversely, it doesn't make it real because you believe in it. It's OK for you to believe whatever you choose. As long as it doesn't effect others who choose differently. The only people in these forums, and life in general, sure that every one has to agree with them on their views, are those with religion. Somehow, everyone is bound for serious trouble if they don't agree. Would it make sense to you if a non believer told you there was no god,  but there was a definite mud hole you would end up in, for eternity, if you didn't recant your faith? Or if an atheist made some threat to your soul? You'd think they were out of line. And probably laugh.

              But christian beliefs permeate our society. Some of these people feel ostracized and strangers in a strange land in their own country. Does this seem fair and equitable?

              1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                just_curious, I am aware it does not make it real because I believe in it. Can you not see that it's not even about me? It's about God's word. ( the bible) To clarify, I have no problem when one disagree with me. You and I don't agree on many things because you reject Jesus teachings. Actually, I choose not to answer your questions. If an atheist don't want to hear a believer saying God does exist, then it would be best for them not to enter the religious forums shouting there is no God. Have a good day.

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I think the forum is religion and beliefs. Also, I started this thread. I had hoped for an opportunity for people to discuss an issue. But, this is exactly what I mean by intolerance. Those with religion stamp a foot, declare the book is the end all truth and everyone must agree. It is not realistic. We don't have to agree in order to learn to be tolerant and accepting of our fellow man.

                  1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Religion and Philosophy...I am starting to see avatars of people with fingers in ears, eye closed and singing "lalalalalala, I can't hear you". It would be nice to just discuss things, in agreement or not, views other than your own can vastly increase your knowledge, if you are willing to just listen.

                  2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                    Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    just_curious, Ok, It seems you were hoping to have an opportunity to discuss an issue without anyone stating anything from the bible on this thread you started. I am tolerant person in many things, but I don't have to be tolerant of things which is contradicting the word of God. The truth is found in the word of God, not in any of us. I have not forced anyone to agree with the word of God. Everyone choose on their own what they want to believe. I prefer not to go around in circles with this.

              2. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "But christian beliefs permeate our society. Some of these people feel ostracized and strangers in a strange land in their own country. Does this seem fair and equitable?"

                lol   That's funny....

                No they don't.. They used to.. Christians catch more crap than anyone in this country right now.

                Don't believe me go to youtube and look up a few religious videos..

                Look at the comments and watch the atheists and agnostics pour on the slander and names...

                smile

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I will grant you there are three or four what I like to call fundamental atheists. But I'm really trying to understand what makes someone feel the need to go to those lengths. I do see emotion as the catalyst in some, but there are one or two here that I do believe consider their motives altruistic. Their tactics leave much to be desired. I don't know what the answers are, but I do know I believe in tolerance and there's precious little of that to be found here most of the time. And the problem is across the board. I've been unfair too. I've known when I did it, but most times I had a point. If someone is being difficult I'll give as good as I think they're giving. I know I've fretted you a time or two, and I'll probably do it again. I am simply a firm believer in the fact that we all have a lot to learn. If there were any firm truths the whole world would be on the same page. smile

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The earth being round was a firm truth only held by the Bible..

                    The whole world rejected it.. Then uh oh........

                    The earth wasn't flat.. Just like the Bible said.. huh.. whatta ya know..

                    smile

                2. Woman Of Courage profile image60
                  Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  vector, They pour on the slaunder and names just like some do in these forums.

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    lol

                    Amazing isn't it. I'm going to start collecting evidence for all the people claiming they don't.

                    smile

                3. 0
                  Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  here we go again - accusations that the atheists slander & call names - show me where please.  So far, I see you have called MK a 'controlling little anti-christ'

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    He states himself he is against Christ.. That's the meaning of the word..


                    roll

  19. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    "You can be loved IF" is not love, religion has that if, therefore there is no love in religion, love is not conditional on believing one story, regardless of it's origins.

    1. 0
      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Excellent point. smile

    2. habee profile image91
      habeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Jesus loved the "dregs of society." Modern-day Christians should try to emulate that.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well I reckon that would be right. If a tired old priest can do it.
        We have such a person in our town. He gives his time to the poor and needy even though he is advanced in years. smile

      2. 0
        Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        yet so many humans are denied love from another human.  I just wrote a hub about a boy that never had human love & lived with chickens

    3. wizbitz profile image76
      wizbitzposted 5 years ago

      Hey, where is the love here? ^ ^

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It was here for about a half an hour on Saturday. It died fast.

        1. wizbitz profile image76
          wizbitzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          ^ ^

        2. vector7 profile image60
          vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Nonsense! I love you both!!!

          big_smile

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Alright..when you put it like that; not wrapped around anyone's interpretation of anything, stands alone, kind of goofy sentiment; sure, love you too. smile

    4. 69
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      What is Christian Love

      Paul and the Church founded the Christian Religion; and it started by a fiction; the Father Killing a Son; so cruelty is the theme of the Christian Religion; not love.

      Love is just to allure the common people to the fold of the Church or churchianity.

      Jesus had got nothing to do with this religion that Paul and the Church founded while Jesus had gone to India after when he escaped from a cursed killing on the cross; in Jesus' absence they started this misnomer in his name"Christ", only to mislead the people.

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Um, if the OP said something like 'what makes  one an Ahmadi muslim' that would be a pretty good answer. Otherwise, you're doing little more than pushing an agenda with your post. It in no way addresses the question.

    5. 69
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

      Paul and the Church founded the Christian Religion; and it started by a fictional story; the Father Killing a Son; so cruelty is the theme of the Christian Religion; not love.

      One could see the real face of Christianity or Christian love if christian fathers start killing their sons and daughters to be in the literal image of the christian-god.

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Speaking of love......

        How nice and kind hearted of you to drop into a Christian forum just to twist our God and slander His name..

        We appreciate all the love.. We see you don't hold a grudge or anything..

        Plus.. Jesus Christ is alive.. If you say He isn't then what you just said was just cruel because then you believe our God didn't do that..

        smile

    6. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago

      Should we maybe have started a new thread for the whole Creation/Evolution debate?  Just sayin'.

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        They started it..  lol

        smile

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Then you finish it wink

        2. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Actually - you were the one that bought up evolution:


          http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/71883?page=3

          I know that you are angry that science disproves your Invisible Super Being, but - could you not find something honest to say every now and then? It might cause less conflict.

          Just sayin' wink

          "Liars for Jesus"(TM)

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            God loves you... I've already been through the refutation process on this thread..

            You simply throw out what you don't like.. it can be seen above.

            smile

            1. 0
              Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              are you and aka-dj the same person?

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Maybe you should quit asking irrelevant questions.

                It is a very bothersome nuisance to see your picture under every post with a question that has no point in the discussion.

                smile

                1. 0
                  Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm not convinced that you aren't, especially the way you sideswiped that one

    7. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago

      Love
      agapao:  has the connotation of judgment or deliberate choice and deliberate assent of the will to a principle, duty or propriety. Its a conscious effort.

      When jesus said love your enemies, obviously it is hard to conjure up genuine feelings of love for someone who bad mouths you or has just stolen your stuff. But when christ told us to love he told us to make a mental decision to show love to these people. If a person continually comes at me and says "this is why your religion causes so many wars" over and over again like a person who actually believes they have a real point and continually sticks it in my face, I have to consciously make a decision to love that person, in spite of the incorrectness of the saying and the adamancy of the drama queen, therefore, to show love I turn to meekness and say "have a nice day".
      I do not love this person but i make the attempt to turn my avarice toward love. This is not hypocrisy, although i do not have ooey gooey feelings of love and goosebumps, I have shown a form of love.

      phileo:  has more attachment like amongst family or friends. Its a fondness that has real emotion behind it. Personal affection, sentiment or feeling.

      Summary:
      phileo is more a matter of the heart than agapao which is more of the head.

      So if christians say they love you, and you've been a rotten egg, remember, they have made a conscious decision not to treat you as you deserve to be treated and you can thank God for that little miracle.

      1. heavenbound5511 profile image82
        heavenbound5511posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well said Brotheryochanan!

        It's a choice to love everyone even when they are mean and hateful.
        And Jesus summed it up well > Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
        And this equals LOVE undeserved.

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Amen.

      2. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Amen indeed..

        smile

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Amen x100

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks to all brothers and sisters in Christ. God is wonderful and in my prayers are that he keep blessing you all in abundance according to His good word that lives in your hearts. Run the race beloved, the goal is so much worth the endevour. smile I am edified by you.

            1. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
              Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Just out of interest, what do you mean by you hope god keeps blessing him?

              Does god bless the millions of children that painfully starve to death every year?

              1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                hahaha
                obviously an antagonistic post

                keep thinking about God and i hope you find the revelation you need.
                If you need an answer to your question, follow beelzedads post and you may discover an urgency to go to disneyland also smile

                1. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  In other words, brothero has no explanation to the dilemma he himself puts forth and instead redirects to others for answers. Of course, there is no answer to this dilemma if gods exist and they are everything believers claim them to be. smile

                2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The world has more than enough food for everyone!!!

                  People (yes children) starve and die ,because men are greedy. Period.


                  On a side note ,ever noticed the amount of food that gets thrown away every hour of everyday?

                  Tons!!

                  God provided the  fertile soil ,the rivers, the forests teaming with wildlife and people starve?

                  C'mon people join the dots.

                  1. Beelzedad profile image60
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yew, we heard that very fabricated tale of nonsense many times here. Notice how you just regurgitate it without thinking?

                    smile

                    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Not a tale
                      Its fact.

                      Notice how you dont like facts?


                      There is enough food in the world to feed everyone

                      Fact.

                      Why doesnt it get distributed?

                      Greed.

                      Why blame God, what a cop out.

                3. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
                  Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Antagonistic? Why are you assuming I am being antagonistic? It is a perfectly valid question and I can only assume by your unwillingness to provide an answer for it and your instant assumption that I am only asking it to be antagonistic, that you CANT answer it.

                  Give it a try. If you believe god blesses people then why doesnt he bless those suffering, starving children?

    8. wizbitz profile image76
      wizbitzposted 5 years ago

      hey,how do you post those smileys?(...show some love here.)

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        When you hit "reply" or "post a reply", then you can use the formatting tools at the bottom of the box you are suppose to type into. Click on formatting tools and see what's available. smile

        1. wizbitz profile image76
          wizbitzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          thanks! big_smile

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You're welcome. smile big_smile

    9. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago

      Well, I think this thread aptly demonstrates what Christian "love" is and the inevitable end result of the sharing of this "love."

      sad

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        lol lol lol

      2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Would have settled for good love big_smile

    10. mobilemaniac profile image58
      mobilemaniacposted 5 years ago

      hi just_curious,

      i think there is no need to explain to you what love is.
      St.Francis of Assisi who is called as second Christ said once "If you need to do something to someone just love them.thats all".Because true love doesnt do any harm to them that time.In all otherways there is a chance for us to go wrong.If its true love it should not harm anyone.But for that we should understand its true meaning : )
      This is what exactly Christ's love

      1. vector7 profile image60
        vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Christ's definition went a little further..

        He said greater love has no man than this.. That a man lay down his life for his friends..  [John 15:13]  (paraphrased)

        smile

        1. 0
          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hey vector. No one is asking anyone to sacrifice their life. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm asking you to understand the first part of the concept. Your actions prove you haven't gotten that part right yet. And, honestly, that's the only part you'll probably have a chance to show.

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Surely you wouldn't understand how a father would give his life to save his son from an attacker with a gun...

            Because of how strongly he loves his son...

            Wow.. simple principle huh?

            smile

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I think we all get that. If that's what you're going on and on about. You can stop. Everyone knows the story.

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                OP:

                "What is Christian Love"

                Definition of Christianity:

                religion that follows Jesus Christ's teachings: the religion based on the life, teachings, and example of Jesus Christ

                http://www.bing.com/search?q=Christiani … mp;sc=5-17

                Christ's teaching:

                John 15:13

                13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 


                Hence.. Christian love.

                If you don't like the correct answer then don't ask the question...


                smile

                1. 0
                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Vector, if you aren't interested in dialogue, don't post. It works both ways. You are not the end all source for answers. Once you get this concept you might learn something.

                  1. vector7 profile image60
                    vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    lol

                    I am not the source for any of that information. I provided the sources.

                    Enjoy your arguments..

                    smile

                    1. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Vector, as long as you see them as arguments there will always be conflict.  These are not meant to be arguments.  They should be discussions.  I realize you don't understand this.  It's like the definition you posted to Bailey Bear of theory.  There are multiple definitions to the word and there is a definition of scientific theory.  Everyone is looking at something differently. Always, it seems.  The lines of communication haven't crossed yet. The fact that people keep coming back, again and again, to try to find a way to communicate with you speaks volumes.  You can't see the forest for the trees, apparently.  But someday, someone may find the angle needed to get through to you.  That's why people like Mark go on and on.  I actually believe in the cause and will probably keep posting too.  Open your mind, and yes, open your heart.  This problem is you.

                  2. mobilemaniac profile image58
                    mobilemaniacposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    hey why are you saying nobody can't sacrifice his life for any other person?what is in it so difficult to understand?How many people died for Strong reasons?Or are you saying they done that much for satisfying their own Self???

                    1. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I'm at a loss here.  What? I didn't say that.

                2. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Mark 12:29-34

                  29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.e
                  30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’f
                  31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’g There is no commandment greater than these.”
                  32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
                  33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
                  34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.


                  Also the Teachings of Christ.

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    To me, those verses said it all. End of story. Everything had to go through that sieve before it could be considered part of the message. It seems pretty self explanatory.

                  2. 69
                    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Jesus believed in ONE-TRUE-GOD as is evident from the above passage; yet Paul and the Church invented Trinity; they must be Anti-Christ then.

                    1. aka-dj profile image79
                      aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I guess you have nere heard of "progressive revelation"?

                    2. 0
                      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Paar, not to sounds rude but; get a life. No one is going to convert to islam. I can't speak for the christians, but I'm pretty confident they'd rather be atheists. It's the option I thought made sense. smile

                  3. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I think Vector and Mark feel passion and it comes out in the way they squabble.


                    We could always blame testosterone lol and not God for a change.

                    1. vector7 profile image60
                      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I do have a lot of testosterone...

                      wink