Here again is an uprising over religion.Muslims slaughtering their own people.How do Christians always get accused of this behavior when one has no relationship to the other? Where are Christians causing any wars on this planet?
Christians have a history of slaughtering each other over matters of doctrine such as: is the pope God's rep on Earth or the anti-Christ? Or how about whether or not the bible should be available to the masses in their vernacular?
400 years ago the church was doing the exact same things as Muslims do to each other today.
Oh and by the way it was only 10 years ago that the Irish Catholic community in America was sending financial support to the IRA so that they could plant bombs and carry out sectarian killings in Northern Ireland.
400 years ago was quite a while ago...
The young policeman who was killed in the last few days for one.
And it was the predominantly 'Christian' Serbs who were carrying out genocide against the Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo only 15 years ago.
I think I found an article about that.
I haven't got a take on it yet, since apparently the Party system is different there...and even the beliefs of the Catholic and Protestant sects there, maybe....
And the article says there are some things unclear about that policeman's killing.
At any rate, I don't think that can be compared to the Crusades, etc, can it? Or maybe I just don't have enough information about Ireland's fights.
How can a supposedly holy institution be built on such evil?
It might have been a while ago, but it is still the basis that the modern church is built on.
It all seems as tho what you believe is FAR more important then how you actually live.
Personally, I've never been worried about a "holy institution"!
Every born-again child of God, collectively, makes up the only group that is considered "Holy", and that is simply because we're deemed that because of the true Holiness of Jesus Christ our Lord.
So you see, you've been talking about religion instead of what I've been talking about. When people cannot see past the setup of organized religion, they sure have a hard time seeing that true Foundation.....
It's not just a "movement"; it's not a fad; it's not a political agenda; it's not a religious fight. It's a Spiritual thing, one of lasting importance.
People are killed in the name of religion daily.
Pick one and do a little research and you'll find relevant info in most all cases that are quite recent.
Religion is about Satan under the pretense of being about God.
Country Main religious groups involved Type of conflict
Afghanistan Extreme, radical Fundamentalist Muslim terrorist groups & non-Muslims Osama bin Laden heads a terrorist group called Al Quada (The Source) whose headquarters were in Afghanistan. They were protected by, and integrated with, the Taliban dictatorship in the country. The Northern Alliance of rebel Afghans, Britain and the U.S. attacked the Taliban and Al Quada, establishing a new regime in part of the country. The fighting continues.
Bosnia Serbian Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholic), Muslims Fragile peace is holding, due to the presence of peacekeepers. 2
Côte d'Ivoire Muslims, Indigenous, Christian Following the elections in late 2000, government security forces "began targeting civilians solely and explicitly on the basis of their religion, ethnic group, or national origin. The overwhelming majority of victims come from the largely Muslim north of the country, or are immigrants or the descendants of immigrants..." 5 A military uprising continued the slaughter in 2002.
Cyprus Christians & Muslims The island is partitioned, creating enclaves for ethnic Greeks (Christians) and Turks (Muslims). A UN peace keeping force is maintaining stability.
East Timor Christians & Muslims A Roman Catholic country. About 30% of the population died by murder, starvation or disease after they were forcibly annexed by Indonesia (mainly Muslim). After voting for independence, many Christians were exterminated or exiled by the Indonesian army and army-funded militias in a carefully planned program of genocide and religious cleansing. The situation is now stable.
India Animists, Christians, Hindus, Muslims & Sikhs Various conflicts that heat up periodically producing loss of life. Christians are regularly attacked in Orissa province by militant Hindu extremists.
Indonesia, province of Ambon Christians & Muslims After centuries of relative peace, conflicts between Christians and Muslims started during 1999-JUL in this province of Indonesia. The situation now appears to be stable.
Indonesia, province of Halmahera Christians & Muslims 30 people killed. 2,000 Christians driven out; homes and churches destroyed.
Iraq Kurds, Shiite Muslims, Sunni Muslims, western armed forces By mid-2006, a small scale civil war, primarily between Shiite and Sunni Muslims started. The situation appears to be steadily improving since the coalition forces have withdrawn from the cities.
Kashmir Hindus & Muslims A chronically unstable region of the world, claimed by both Pakistan and India. The availability of nuclear weapons and the eagerness to use them are destabilizing the region further. More details Thirty to sixty thousand people have died since 1989.
Kosovo Serbian Orthodox Christians & Muslims Peace enforced by NATO peacekeepers. There is convincing evidence of past mass murder by Yugoslavian government (mainly Serbian Orthodox Christians) against ethnic Albanians (mostly Muslim) Full story
Kurdistan Christians, Muslims Periodic assaults on Christians (Protestant, Chaldean Catholic, & Assyrian Orthodox).
Macedonia Macedonian Orthodox Christians & Muslims Muslims (often referred to as ethnic Albanians) engaged in a civil war with the rest of the country who are primarily Macedonian Orthodox Christians during the 1990s. A peace treaty has been signed. Disarmament by NATO is complete.
Middle East Jews, Muslims, & Christians The peace process between Israel and Palestine suffered a complete breakdown. This has resulted in the deaths of thousands, in the ratio of three dead for each Jew who died. Major strife broke out in 2000-SEP. Flareups repeat. No resolution appears possible.
Nigeria Christians, Animists, & Muslims Yourubas and Christians in the south of the country are battling Muslims in the north. Country is struggling towards democracy after decades of Muslim military dictatorships. More details
Northern Ireland Protestants, Catholics After 3,600 killings and assassinations over 30 years. A ceasefire is holding.
Pakistan Suni & Shi'ite Muslims Low level mutual attacks, overshadowed by Taliban insurrectionists.
Philippines Christians & Muslims A low level conflict between the mainly Christian central government and Muslims in the south of the country has continued for centuries. More details
Chechnya Russian Orthodox Christians, Muslims The Russian army attacked the breakaway region. Many atrocities have been alleged on both sides. According to the Voice of the Martyrs: "In January 2002 Chechen rebels included all Christians on their list of official enemies, vowing to 'blow up every church and mission-related facility in Russia'." 7
Somalia Wahhabi and Sufi Muslims Sufi Muslims -- a tolerant moderate tradition of Islam are fighting the Shabab who follow the Wahhabi tradition of Islam in a continuing conflict.
South Africa Animists & "Witches" Hundreds of persons, suspected and accused of witches practicing black magic, are murdered each year.
Sri Lanka Buddhists & Hindus Tamils (a mainly Hindu 18% minority) are involved in a war for independence since 1983 with the rest of the country (70% Sinhalese Buddhist). Hundreds of thousands have been killed. The conflict took a sudden change for the better in 2002-SEP, when the Tamils dropped their demand for complete independence. The South Asian Tsunami in 2004-DEC induced some cooperation. By 2009 the Tamil uprising was crushed..
Sudan Animists, Christians & Muslims Complex ethnic, racial, religious conflict in which the Muslim regime committed genocide against both Animists and Christians in the south of the country. Slavery and near slavery were practiced. A ceasefire was signed in 2006-MAY between some of the combatants. 3 Warfare continues in the Darfur region, primarily between a Muslim militia and Muslim inhabitants. 8
Thailand Buddhists & Muslims Muslim rebels have been involved in a bloody insurgency in southern Thailand -- a country that is 95% Buddhist.
Tibet Buddhists & Communists Country was annexed by Chinese Communists in late 1950's. Brutal suppression of Buddhism continues. *
Uganda Animists, Christians, & Muslims Christian rebels of the Lord's Resistance Army are conducting a civil war in the north of Uganda. Their goal is a Christian theocracy whose laws are based on the Ten Commandments. They abduct, enslave and/or raped about 2,000 children a year. 6
Are you sure many of those aren't political fights instead of religious ones?
Would it matter? I think it's obvious that religion is responsible for everything from war to burnt toast. It's apparently the evil du jour on hub pages.
I guess each person will judge each war in their own way, I don't blame religion for all wars, just answering the question.
Thanks for posting those references, actually. There's so much going on right here in the USA that I'm not up on what's going on in Ireland or much of anywhere else unless it's directly related to the U.S.
There is one fact that keeps amazing me-----some countries still have a "Queen" or a "King". Even in England. I'm sure they're mostly "figureheads".....but still, an amazing fact, in my opinion.....
Yes, the monarchies are retreating though, several are expected to end soon. We used to be a part of England, but not any more. Like Canada we were an English Colony.
You still are a colony aren't you. After all our monarchy gave you criminals a nice new place to live 200 years ago.
May the Lord ever preserve our tax efficient monarchy. It only costs us 87 pence per year but brings us billions from tourists flocking to see our quaint Buck House. The worst thing that could happen to Britain would be to replace the queen with a president. Imagine the misery if Tony Blair had been our head of state.
I know ernest, and your point is well taken..but there are so many problems in the world. Sometimes it just seems to me that everyone thinks once religion disappears we'll live in utopia. If I honestly thought that could happen, I'd do every thing I could do to precipitate it. It's just not true. We can't change the nature of our species. Men fight. They don't mind killing each other in the process. It's a sad fact of life.
Sure. I agree it is human nature. But we can learn about ourselves and clear up one small part of that problem.
I still say it is education. Indoctrination is very difficult to deal with. After all the fire and brimstone I found it hard to even return to reading widely again.
Every thought goes through the religious filter. It drove me nuts at first.
Reading widely is the only way I know to open us to other ideas that challenge our beliefs.
I see religious piety as a barricade to free thought AND logic.
Agreed. But one thing I learned from my father. You do what you can. You change the world, one generation at a time. This generation is light years ahead of the last when it comes to the church. The fundamentalists within christianity are losing ground. Thats why they're so vocal. It won't happen overnight, without violence and I'm personally sick of all the violence in the world already.
Hugs and kisses to all.
Look, instead of stabbing at the foundation of faith just bring it down to a human level. If one person feels strongly about something they will act to defend and promote it according to their environment, heritage and upbringing.
If I found a magic weight loss program that did the job I would spread the word like wildfire. Also, if attacked I would defend it. It's really as simple as this.
For the Christian, Atheist and non-Christian their systems of belief operates for them according to their level of conviction to that system, environment and upbringing. A devout Christian may willingly die for the cause of Christ. Likewise, an Atheist may willingly die for the cause of strict science.
We really cannot be so shallow and narrow-minded as to think that religion causes the havoc. There is still the overriding issue of personal responsibility and accountability. That's the paramount factor that should be remedied.
A true Christian is a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ.We are not associated with Catholics or Protestants or Methodists or whatever denomination you may care to name.A true Christian is about love and forgiveness and reconcilliation.As stated by several people, wars are about the desire of evil men and women who want to control the masses. War is from hate and greed and lust,which Jesus spoke against and did not condone.I do not know the teachings of the Koran, but apparently it does not teach about love or it has been terribly misunderstood.
The quoran and bible are similar. The muslims treat the quoran the way that other religions treat the bible.
They ignore all the psychotic statements and try to talk them away with puerile arguments about being taken "in context" What in context seems to mean, is to get church scholars to continuously find new ways of interpreting the altered and unknown scripture to fit their particular sect.
Hi. I agree with you, in that the concept of the teachings of Jesus were meant to be peaceful and used for introspection. But, it is impossible not to accept that the religion that has been built up around these teachings has been used for great violence throughout the centuries and now it is used by fundamentalists to perpetuate acts of hatred and intolerance on everyone from pregnant women and homosexuals, to liberal democrats and anyone that doesn't share their personal views. Do you see a way to rectify the problem within christianity? Because frankly, as an ex Christian, I think the argument that organized religion has proven itself too prone to be used as a weapon, even if it isn't a weapon of war is a compelling one.
Yeah, just as soon as you figure out how to get those big bad bad bad fundamentalist Christians in America to bow down to secularism and tolerate all the twisted rhetoric from innocent baby-killers and liberal whiners riding the coattails of the once-legit civil rights movement, you let me know, ya hear?
Forget the Islamist extremists, and even Islam in general; it's ALL the fault of the fundamental Christians. Wow. Did you learn how to manipulate on your own, or did someone have to carefully teach you that stuff?
Brenda, You hit the nail right on the mark.
I just couldn't let such obvious manipulation go unchallenged. So tiresome to always see God-fearing people blamed for everything under the sun.
As long as you hold to this opinion you will never understand what it is that is killing your movement. Ok by me. I've always considered it an archaic mindset that needed to be put to rest.
I, personally, don't feel a need to be persecuted. I realize this makes me somewhat unique in America today. I do, however, take deep offense at philosophies that bandy about term like baby killers. You should too. I have never been in the position to make such a decision, but as a woman I would fight you tooth and nail for standing in judgement of another at such an emotional time. It is this type of rhetoric that will doom your movement. Attitudes and opinions such as yours will continue to push moderates further and further left. I assume this is, in me, a defensive move. I do see the inherent dangers in my changing alignments but I believe the alternative (letting the fundamentalist mentality have any sway in policy) to be far, far worse. This opinion has deepened considerably as I have read these forums.
As far as the liberals; I don't think you realize this but it is the rabid, intolerant stand of the religious right that has caused the liberal numbers to mushroom. I was a republican until it became obvious that conservative ideals on fiscal responsibility had put me in bed with those with no compassion for their fellow man. It made me ill at Bush's reaction to Katrina. Until the religious right is drummed out of the party it will remain a joke.
Bush was in office when the Patriot Act was passed. Don't dare blame the left for the loss of my freedoms. I lost those before we'd ever heard Obama's name.
As to following; what? You've never known me. You assumed when I said the word Christian I was automatically toeing your line. Just like everyone else did. I'll speak my mind as everyone else and if you, the atheists, or anyone else choose to assume anything about me, so be it; but I have no respect for those who follow and little respect for those who attempt to bully themselves into the position of leader. I try to listen, but I make my own decisions and I'm old enough not to change my evil ways, as far as that point goes.
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