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How Many People Would You Kill To Get Into Heaven?

  1. 0
    just_curiousposted 5 years ago

    Everyone keeps talking about heaven and hell, and I honestly don't believe the average Christian understands the insanity of this belief, so I thought it might be helpful to share the numbers.

    Statistics show that an average of 56,597,034 people die worldwide every year. With 33% of the world assumed as Christian that means 37,731,356 people per year (103, 373 per day) are, by your philosophy, headed for fiery torment; or, to those of you that believe in a common grave that's a pretty big pit that has to be dug outside the gates of heaven every year.

    Assuming the average person lives 70 years, The number of people bound for hell in your lifetime, thanks to this wonderful philosophy, is a mind boggling 2,641,194,920
    To anyone that might have become lost in all of the commas; that's over 2.5 billion condemned to hell by your philosophy.

    My question to christians is,  how does this make you feel about your belief  in heaven?

    1. AEvans profile image71
      AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I still believe and don't worry about the numbers. Honestly I have to worry about me. All of us are entitled to our beliefs and one would hope that one day all of us can get along and have peace with each other. ***sigh***

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        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        See, that was always a stumbling block for me. It seems so unfair, when you're told God is loving. I assumed the church had it wrong. I always said if I ever believed it was real I was out of there. Wouldn't want to be a part of heaven if it meant that much suffering for others.

        1. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Some people like AE use her morals as beliefs as well, and I have always admired good morals from wherever they come, from those who believe and those who don't.

          In the two years I have been here I have not seen AE do or say anything objectionable to me.

          I like AE a lot, she is good people, I see it as unfortunate that because my beliefs and hers are not the same that some of what I say could be hurtful, something she has always avoided doing to me. smile A classy lady.

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            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hey. Nice post ernest. She does seem nice. And, it's easy to understand why the numbers don't effect people. We've all lost loved ones we wish the best for. I just saw your conversation with her on another thread and feel bad about replying to her post.

            1. earnestshub profile image89
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I understand. AE is big and strong, like a lioness only she is quiet about it. smile It is always difficult to speak to others about losses. smile

              Your nice. smile

              1. Leptirela profile image70
                Leptirelaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I am not a christian, which don't matter , I BELIEVE IN GOD!!
                I think the most important is how an individual, carries his/her belief through to the end and keeping in mind their faith and morals and their input in this life.. smile I believe in good-doers ....sadly we live in a world where a minority ... affects our lives- our thinking AND our belief...

                Never lose HOPE I say , and I hope for a peaceful end, for me anyway..

                I am sure no one will stand in my way... unless GOD chooses to..

                1. Cagsil profile image84
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, I certainly don't think your god is going to choose to get in your way. wink

                  1. Leptirela profile image70
                    Leptirelaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    smile I hope so hehehe..

          2. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
            Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            earnest and AEvans sitting up a tree....

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol lol

            2. Eaglekiwi profile image76
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              AE is lovely,I agree.

              We all stand up for what we believe in different ways.

              I prefer to just talk about Christ and discuss a little scripture,but if backed into a corner and mocked, I wont smile and whisper 'have a good day' ,I will stand up and be counted.

              Of course offline Im really shy lol

        2. AEvans profile image71
          AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          God is love. When the other 35 million figure it out, our world would be more pleasant to be in. All of us should be able to discuss our thoughts and beliefs without someone else saying it is wrong. Some of my own Christian brothers and sisters do it and it is not right. We should not ever judge another for their beliefs, but gain knowledge and understanding from each other.


          As for mom it was hard when she was called home. But I am back on Hubpages and what makes me happy is to see everyone here. Mom loved people and life, so for mom I am continuing her legacy. smile

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            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I am in total agreement that we should see other beliefs as a chance to learn. Your mother sounds as if she were a beautiful person, as do you. smile

            1. AEvans profile image71
              AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              She was amd I try but sometimes being to nice gets me in trouble. lolololo big_smile

              1. Alexander Pease profile image60
                Alexander Peaseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I agree with AE. A person beliefs are well, just that, personal! It is something that they hold close to their hearts. And to judge that is to judge their heart and their character, which some people are less than fond of.

                I believe God extends beyond love and into faith, hope, and trust. Faith that there is a God and Heaven, hope that we will make it through this world while being safe in his arms, and trust that he will choose us to be in his kingdom. Although, if we believe in his then we are already chosen, or so that is what I believe.

          2. manlypoetryman profile image68
            manlypoetrymanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            !!! Right-on !!! and Well Said.

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      SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hell was not created for man.  It was created for the devil and his angels.  God made a way for all to stay out of that dreadful place. 

      You write as if you believe Christians like the thought of people going there.  I tell you this, we don't.  We are told that we threaten people with hell, but we merely warn them not to go there. 

      Hell is a very real place.  Anyone who ends up there does so of their own choosing.  The best thing anyone can do is confess Jesus Christ and stay out of that place.

      God does not want anyone to perish, but He will not force anyone to come to Him.  We all have a choice to make, live in sin with no confession of faith in Jesus Christ or we can confess Jesus Christ and believe God raised Him from the dead.

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        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sir Dent. I have a follow up question. I would like to ask you. The scriptures talk about the keys to heaven. Something about what is unlocked on earth will be unlocked in heaven. What's that passage? Who are they talking about having the keys?

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          SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



          Mat 16:19  And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

          Jesus has the keys then gives the keys to believers.

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            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So, why can't believers loose this philosophy? Why can't they loose the belief that good people suffer, simply because they don't see the same truth?

            I'm not attempting to be argumentative, but it all simply sounds so horrible. When you look at it in black and white.

            1. 59
              TLBoydposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              We can't change the laws of God; we can't force people to accept Him.

              If you sent your son to die so that others could live, and all you asked was that people trust that and you would not condemn them.. and they spat in your face and ignored the gift...

              and yet we know that every soul matters to God.. and it breaks the heart of God that any should perish. That's why Jesus came...

              John 3:16&17 - For GOD so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.  For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that through Him the world might be saved.

              1. Beelzedad profile image60
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Only a psychotic and insane father would ever do such a thing. smile

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              SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Every time someone mentions Jesus and the salvation message, it is loosed on earth and in heaven.  Once salvation comes, it is up to the individual to accept it or not. Many people die because of preaching the gospel message of Christ.  Not so much in the US but in many nations of the world.



              We cannot change God's Word.  That is what so many try to do.  Even some evangelists change it. 

              God made a perfect way for all people.  No other way will work or even come close to His way.  Zec 4:6  Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.(bolded part done by me)

              By the spirit of God man can come to Him.  No other way can work or God would be a liar.  We know that God cannot lie.  A man may think that giving everything he owns away will buy him a spot in heaven, but it doesn't.  It takes grace to enter into heaven.

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                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                So, I take it that's a no? smile

                Oh well, thanks for responding anyway.

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  If I had just simply typed the word "NO" you would have asked me to explain.

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    No, I don't think I would have, although I can certainly understand why you would think that. To be honest, I'm just looking to see if anyone has honestly thought about this. What I feel like I'm finding is no, and they don't care. It's very sad to me, but it isn't as if I can change the fact of what people want to believe, no matter how horrible it sounds.

      2. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        When I touched down at O'Hare airport in the middle of February during some of the worst snowstorms, I knew Chicago was a very real place.

        So, when did you touch down in hell, SirDent? smile

    3. Gordon Hamilton profile image96
      Gordon Hamiltonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There are lies, there are damned lies... and then there are statistics...

      I rest my case...

      1. 0
        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Afraid I didn't get your point. Are the lies heaven? The damn lies hell? The statistics the ones I posted? Or did you mean something else?

        1. Gordon Hamilton profile image96
          Gordon Hamiltonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          a) What right do you have to call Christians insane?

          b) Who spent the time "Making up," your statistics and where is your, "Statistical," proof of their validity? (Even the most lethargic of statisticians frequently tend to quote their, "Sources.")

          c) Are you going to accept your time off work at Easter and allow your children Easter Eggs (if applicable)

          This could be but a starter for ten. I am, however, tired...

          Good night. God bless...

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I apologize if the question upset you. A simple goole search will give you the numbers. I simply didn't think those who believed in hell had pondered the ramifications of their belief. I assume, from your reaction, you hadn't.

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I ponder eternity smile

              You could too, its a choice we all have ,after all.

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                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I have never pondered hell for others. In all the time I associated with Christianity it never made sense. I was thinking about it and when I ran the numbers I wondered if anyone had taken the time to see the extent of the potential suffering that would be caused by this belief.

                I found it heart wrenching that anyone would believe this before and now is no different.

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I personally know of many missionaries who feel the gut wrenching emotion and empathy often and that is why they sacrifice time ,prayers and love to spread the news.


                  I really dont get where youre going with this discussion?

                  I mean seriously Gods laws and plans havent just been sprung on us.

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm not going anywhere. It has already become obvious that christians know this is the end result of their belief and don't care. I am truly horrified that I associated myself with it for so long.

                    Sorry. This is the saddest thing I've seen in a very long time.

            2. Gordon Hamilton profile image96
              Gordon Hamiltonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hmmm... just_curious

              You do not seem to be a bad person but that makes me wonder all the more why you are pursuing this controversial line of debate and enquiry?

              I would suggest that you firstly learn of Christian beliefs before you so wholeheartedly condemn them and make such preposterous accusations. Your knowledge is clearly extremely... limited. Hellfire and brimstone is some several centuries out of date...

              I really don't get it, why so many people make so many criticisims, based on what is obviously such little knowledge...

              Is Christian bashing a new fashion statement??

              1. 0
                SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



                The answer to youur question Gordon is yes.  That is not the reason just-curios started this thread though.  Pro 18:24  A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly:

                Friendly discussion can take place as long as everyone tries to keep it friendly.

                1. Gordon Hamilton profile image96
                  Gordon Hamiltonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Agreed - 100%. I would never have it otherwise... smile

                2. Leptirela profile image70
                  Leptirelaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  With ::SirDent:: on this smile

              2. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I was a christian for a good many years. I never believed in hell. The term is used too frequently on this site for my comfort and I was wondering if those who believe in it so firmly understood just how horrible it is.

                1. Gordon Hamilton profile image96
                  Gordon Hamiltonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Just curious,

                  I was raised in a very strong Presbyterian environment here in Scotland. It was tough as a child - Sunday School, Boys' Brigade, etc, etc. (Probably the equivalent of military school in the USA! smile ) Both sides of my family were very strict Presbyterian - except for one person: my Dad. My Dad was the only one of my family who let me down with lies, after lies, after lies. I never even heard from him for many years when I was growing up.

                  I still love my Dad very much and he is very ill in the foreign country where he lives now. Incredibly, his family now are Roman Catholic and he respects that even stricter brand of Christianity (without embracing it) more than his own formal upbringing.

                  Life can bring many changes and Heaven and Hell both remain a part of it for many people.

                  Look in to your own heart and determine what you believe - not what science, technology or peer pressure tells you to believe and you can know at least your own inner peace and satisfaction.

                  Good luck with it...

                  1. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I always have looked to my own self for my beliefs. Always will. Thanks for posting. You seem like a thoughtful guy.

              3. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Its not new and its very fashionable in this forum sad

    4. 59
      TLBoydposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for your post. It reminds me of how important it is as a Christian that we reach as many people as we can while there's still time. How sad that so many people are dying without the simple act of accepting Christ as their personal Savior... God, who loves us does not wish for us to go to hell.. that's why He sent His son.. why He made a way that we could escape hell. Unfortunately we get so caught up in thinking we can do anything on our own... be good, be righteous, that we neglect the awesome gift that God gave us; eternal life and peace.

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        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I understand your point, but a large number of people within the statistics are part of other faith structures. They may never see your side of the debate. They are good people. It doesn't bother you that you see them as bound for hell?

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          TLBoydposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Am I bothered that they are going to hell... absolutely... I read your post to my family and we took a collective deep breath. Christians are definitely bothered that others are going to hell. We should be bothered more. We should be bothered enough to be telling everyone that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life...

          If I knew you had an incurable disease. That you were dying.. and I knew you were dying. My knowledge of it wouldn't change anything, except to allow me to pray for you and comfort you. I couldn't feel bad about knowing that you were dying... I could only feel bad that you were dying.

          And if I knew that you could be cured. If I knew that there was a solution to your disease, I know I would tell you. I would call you incessantly and beg you to listen to me.

          Unfortunately, it's easy as Christians to become afraid of offending others... and we don't tell people as often as we should that we know the cure for their disease... we know the solution to life everlasting. God help us and forgive us for not seeing the urgency of the matter.

          Thank you for bringing to my mind how absolutely vital it is that we share the good news of Jesus Christ.

          1. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Here's something for your family to read.

            Whether you believe a person is going to hell or not is none of your business as that is a decision they have made. And, they are well aware of your god and the salvation they can attain, if that's what they really want to do.

            However, if you're going to be bothered so much that you are compelled to tell everyone what they already know only shows you do not respect people and the decisions they have made and that your interference is only self-serving, that it is for you and not for them.

            Take a collective deep breath, now. smile

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              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Man, I'm glad you posted that. When I read their post I cringed because I thought I might have created another monster. I was scared to post anything back. Hopefully they'll read your post and decide not to use my question as a reason to head out to spread their 'truth'.

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Oh c'mon jc, you love the contraversy lol


                I actually agree with Beezle for the most part smile

                It is between God and Individual.

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                  just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No. Not always. I'd honestly prefer less heated debate than appears to be the norm here. But, on points such as this one the controversy, no matter how civil, disturbs me deeply. I like to think of everyone as good people, even if sometimes they do bad things. You, or I, have no idea what motivates the actions of another. Sometimes what is perceived as wrong in another is simply my wrong perception.

                  Anyway, I'm glad you agree on the point. If we all agreed everyone had the right to make their own decisions, and then assumed whatever any of our ends might turn out to be was fair and equitable; there'd probably be no reason for anyone to bring up this subject. smile

    5. Alexander Pease profile image60
      Alexander Peaseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Firstly, I am sure that most open-minded Christians would agree that we are not so hardhearted. I for one, accept the possibility that other religions may be included in this "going to heaven" scenario.

      I think that many people from other religions would be upset to hear your take on this philosophy. People of other religions also have their "own" holy place that they go when they die, so your statistic may be a little off on the people who are getting a fiery descent.

      Also, there are many forms of Christianity, from conservative to liberal. To lump them all into one category isn't easy. Christians are various in their philosophies and not all of them believe that their religion is the true religion, although their are some out there.

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        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Good philosophy. I'm trying to understand how the hard liners can believe this. You sound like an intelligent thoughtful person.

    6. Titen-Sxull profile image94
      Titen-Sxullposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Wow, I had no idea that many people died a year, interesting statistics. I really don't think that people who believe in a literal heaven and hell have thought it through at all. I mean even if they make it into Heaven some of their closest family and friends would not, which means they'd spend eternity bowing to a deity who is currently torturing their loved-ones for eternity. I don't believe in God but even if I did I couldn't bear to bow down to such a torturous and evil being... besides that Hell is where the cool people would go anyway big_smile

    7. 59
      TLBoydposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If, indeed, it were my belief in a literal hell that sent people there then yes, I would be horrified. Instead it is a disbelief on a loving God whose Son came and died for our sins that causes people to go to hell. While it still horrifies me I can do nothing to change it except make certain they know the truth.

    8. Mrs. J. B. profile image60
      Mrs. J. B.posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You cna text me, tweet me or e-mail me downstairs... I have the entire went wing reserved. I will either be still trying to write a decent story or making drinks at the bar. see you there!

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        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Hmm. Sounds like you had one too many of those drinks in the bar.

        1. Mrs. J. B. profile image60
          Mrs. J. B.posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No just did not spell a few words correctly. Assuming things without fact causes trouble

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Oh. I didn't see your other post. Gotcha. You're funny. smile

            1. Mrs. J. B. profile image60
              Mrs. J. B.posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Also I was a bit slow getting to the edit button but at 2 AM what's the rush!!!

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                smile

    9. DoubleScorpion profile image86
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Now you know, breaking out statistics does nothing but create confusion for some. smile...I would have to say...I am not killing anyone, except for to sole purpose of protecting my family and/or defending my freedoms. And, even that don't make it right or even justified, it only makes for my continued survival.

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        just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well within your rights. I read something once where the rabbis ruled that if there were two guys in the desert with only enough water for one, a person was justified in taking the water for himself; thereby ensuring the death of his companion. They said no law should force you to put your own life in jeapordy, or feel guilty by protecting yourself. I found it interesting, but realistic. Maybe the subject of hell falls in that category. Damn the torpedos, each man for himself.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I think the "hell" would be...Ending up in a situation where you would be only left with the option of someone dying that you can continue to live.

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            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes. That would be hell.

  2. Stacie L profile image87
    Stacie Lposted 5 years ago

    I thought this was a trick question for sure...
    surely you wouldn't be admitted to heaven after killing anyone,huh?roll

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      just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well, according to some, sure. As long as you repented. That wasn't really the point though. I just don't think people take the time to think about what the idea of hell really boils down to. I can see some ancient isolated village believing something like this. It probably meant one or two people who bucked the collective system over the years got a crappy send off and no one felt bad about the belief.

      But, thinking billions of people are bound for hell because of a difference in philosophy seems bizarre to me. I hope people will stop and think about what a horribly unkind way it is to think.

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Excuse me? Am I defending the Pearly Gates themselves? Or just participating in a general slaughter just for the fun of it? Seems that with one, you get the up elevator, and with the other...not so much. Somebody drop you on your head? What kind of a janky question is this? Seriously, you need to talk to your min...no scratch that, they never help anybody! Hey, I know, just walk away slowly, maybe they won't notice you asked this question and put it up for serious debate. I don't kill anyone. God kills'em. If he didn't want 'em dead...well, they just wouldn't die. If they die...he wanted them dead. Get it?

        1. Druid Dude profile image60
          Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Check Genesis. That is where the creatin' got done. Where in hell is hell? Do you see it? I don't. But I do see him saying that all creation is good. Of course, that is totally his opinion, and I'm sure that if I were God, I'd be a bit proud of what I had acheived. What about God's little brother. What was left for him to do? Overacheiving big brother...probably had esteem issues, poor guy.

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          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Actually, I do get it. Its a horrible philosophy that I found to be a horrible philosophy when I associated with Christianity. I always said, if I died and found out this was correct I'd recant my faith before I walked through the gates because it is insanity. To believe that good people go to 'hell' and bad people get in 'heaven' because of a difference in philosophy is madness.

          I apologize if the question offends you, but  I am curious if those who believe in this have taken the time to think about it past their personal gain.

          1. Druid Dude profile image60
            Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Not offended. Just amazed at the size a your cajones. Most people don't even know if they could kill, and some who think they could, never have. Could you pull the trigger and take a life? Watchit that's a trick question. Unless you have, the only answer that you can honestly give is "I'm not sure." Besides, define "GOD"

            1. 0
              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I don't know what I would do in a crisis situation, with a gun in my hand. I guess it would depend on the situation. As to the definition of God? I'm truly clueless. smile

      2. KNOWLEDGESEEKER79 profile image61
        KNOWLEDGESEEKER79posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Your question had me stumped for a sec..lol...But no one realy knows who is going to heavenor hell except God Himself cuz the final judgement is with Him, in Islam we know that people of all faiths make it into heaven because we are taught that God judges each individual by their intentions and since we cant judge a persons intentions God is the only one who can make that final call.

        1. Druid Dude profile image60
          Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Genesis trumps Koran! Just kidding. I'm very ireverent. I sincerely apologize to the prophet and Allah. Seriously

          1. Druid Dude profile image60
            Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Justcurious. It doesn't seem to me that that name fits you. You aren't curious. You had your mind made up, by your own admission, long ago. So...you must have an ulterior motive...an AGENDA. Are you proseletyzing on the hub? Naughty. Misrepresentation. Hmmm. Not so virtuous.

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              just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              My agenda is primarily to see if those who talk this game have thought about it. If they haven't, why not? If they have, what in the world are they thinking?

              It is not within my ability to change the mind of others; but I would love to understand their minds. smile

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          just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That was always my philosophy too. There are good people all over the world, of all beliefs and lack thereof. We can all do little more than the best we can with the knowledge we have. smile

    2. Jesus was a hippy profile image60
      Jesus was a hippyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The bible commands you to kill so it should be fine.

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Excuse me. Who was being addressed? Is this Old T or New T. It says to kill witches. Never met a real one, only posers. But, I can also choose not to kill. Besides, how would you know what God says to me or anyone else? I think you are fixated on a single facet. Step back and veiw them all at once, like a diamond.

    3. Jeff Berndt profile image92
      Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "I thought this was a trick question for sure..."
      Yeah, I thought so too.
      Or perhaps a hypothetical one, like, "Say there are 10 people trying to stop you from getting into Heaven, and the only way to get past them-and get onto Heaven-is to kill them. Would you do it? What if it were 20 people? A hundred?"

  3. 0
    SirDentposted 5 years ago

    Just for the record, not one single person has to go there.  Everyone gets a chance to come to God.  Many write about how God destroyed the wicked in the flood.  God knoew their hearts.  It is also written that they were evil continually.  Never a good thought or idea.  Never trying to hlep someone who needed help.  Such a sad state to be in.

  4. secularist10 profile image90
    secularist10posted 5 years ago

    I wrote a hub relating to just this topic, entitled "Hell: The population of Hell."

    According to my calculations, almost all people who have ever lived have gone or are going to hell. We're talking 95% or more. Including such "awful" people as Gandhi, Einstein and Edison.

    What a beautiful and joyous religion.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If they didnt want anything to do with God-why would they want to go to heaven?

      Sounds like some people just want to point blame ,instead of changing their thinking.

      1. secularist10 profile image90
        secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Most of them did want something to do with God. If they are Catholic, for example, and the real religion is, say, Baptism, then they are going to hell, despite their best efforts.

        And regarding those that don't believe in God (which is practically none, historically speaking): Hell is a punishment. The Bible and Christian doctrine make that quite clear. It is a punishment for being bad, created by God, not man.

        You can rationalize it all you want, but at the end of the day you must square with a religion that claims that Hitler and Gandhi have the same fate.

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          God has already said Works alone will not get you into the Kingdom of heaven. (Or any of the other religious trappings).

          Who are you, or I, for that matter to say who will be there, and who wont be.

          God will judge,period.

          We can only be accountable for ourselves in the end.

          We will all stand before God individually ,not with some church label on our heads, or a list of accolades or credit score.

          Its good coffee chat to discuss and analyse ,but at the end of the day Jesus asks the individual the same thing he asked all those years ago:

          "Who do you ,say I am"

          1. secularist10 profile image90
            secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Ok, so you're going back on what you said.

            "Who are you, or I, for that matter to say who will be there, and who wont be."

            Who are we? We are people who have studied God's word. If that's not enough, then there isn't much sense in believing in him anyway, is there? In the end, it's his call, and there's nothing you can do about it.

            Here's an article on a good, Christian man's discomfort with the notion of hell.

            http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110324/ap_ … l_hell__no

            From the article:

            Bell, the pastor of the 10,000-member Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Mich., lays out the premise of his book while the video cuts away to an artist's hand mixing oil paints and pastels and applying them to a blank canvas.

            He describes going to a Christian art show where one of the pieces featured a quote by Mohandas Gandhi. Someone attached a note saying: "Reality check: He's in hell."

            "Gandhi's in hell? He is? And someone knows this for sure?" Bell asks in the video.

            In the book, Bell criticizes the belief that a select number of Christians will spend eternity in the bliss of heaven while everyone else is tormented forever in hell.

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No,youre misquoting me.

              You implied who was going to Heaven? (Hitler and not Ghandi)?

              My response was along the lines of ,We dont decide,God does.

              So no Im not going back on anything.

              1. secularist10 profile image90
                secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Okay... so then you do believe that Gandhi is in hell. That is your religion, your belief system. You're either in or out, right?

                I never said that "we decide." But we do decide what to believe. If you want to give your life to that kind of a belief system, that's your business. I think it's a tragic thing to believe.

                A man who liberated millions and a man who slaughtered millions wind up in the same place, because "works are not enough." Even really, really big works.

                You must square your conscience with this belief.

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You assume too much,and insist in speaking like you 'know' something for certainty.

                  About me ,about Ghandi and about God. You are entitled to your opinion ,but Im not going to argue with you.

                  Notes you didnt answer Jesus's question either.

                  1. secularist10 profile image90
                    secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    ?? Huh??

                    If you think I mischaracterized something, then you need to explain to me what you believe. When I indicated we can know that certain people are going to hell, you disagreed with that. Then when I said that we can't know, and it's all up to God in the end, you disagreed with that. So which is it?

                    Do we at least have a basic idea of who goes to hell, or don't we?

                    If we do, then we can say that a given person will go or will not go to hell. If we do not, then we can't say that. If we do not, we also can't follow Christianity, because Christianity claims that we can know.

                    In terms of Gandhi, he was a devout Hindu, who made an incredibly positive impact on the lives of millions of people. What more needs to be said about him? For the purpose of this discussion, that's all we need--we know his belief (Hindu), and we know his life and works (peaceful protests, anti-colonialism, etc).

                    "Notes you didnt answer Jesus's question either."

                    Your grammar is flawed here so I don't quite understand what you're saying. But I guess you're saying that I didn't answer "Jesus' question." What question? I wasn't aware that Jesus asked me a question. Are you saying that you posed a question to me that I didn't answer?

                    If you are referring to this ["Who do you say I am"] this was just your argument that God makes the final decision. Which I never disagreed with.

                  2. brotheryochanan profile image61
                    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    there are judgments to be made. 2 of them.
                    the white throne judgment
                    the judgment seat of christ
                    nobody goes anywhere until these happen.
                    catholicism built the people go to hell theory and most of christendom parrots it although the bible says differently.

            2. Eaglekiwi profile image76
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              @ secularist

              Who are we? We are people who have studied God's word. If that's not enough, then there isn't much sense in believing in him anyway, is there? In the end, it's his call, and there's nothing you can do about it.

              Studying Gods word is a good thing ,but we will never completely know the mind of God (yet) in all things. This would be one of them.
              Another words God looks at the heart. Man tends to look at achievements and other outward talents etc.

              (secularist)
              In the end, it's his call, and there's nothing you can do about it.

              (me)

              It always was Gods call. There is always something we can do about OUR outcome.

              1. secularist10 profile image90
                secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                So can a person go to heaven even if they don't believe in Jesus Christ, as long as they have a good heart?

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No,not according to Gods word-

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Good works is always acknowledged and advised BUT nothing we can do of ourselves will earn us our way into Heaven


                    Romans 10:9-10: "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

                    Its not fame ,or money or intellgience or good works that God wants

                    It is our hearts He asks for.

  5. brotheryochanan profile image61
    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago

    Since the terror stems from the belief that people go to hell to be in torment forever and ever, I can only answer this question from a different viewpoint.

    Intro: Hell is not where the spiritual body resides, tormented in firey flames forever and ever. You can thank catholicism for that bit of terrorism.

    Belief: God will destroy, cause to perish and utterly consume the soul that is deemed unworthy to life eternal. Snuff it like a candle. I am not saying that this will happen immediately, i don't see that. There may be a period or age of time, perhaps until all the judging is over, where the souls cast into the lake of fire (the second death) will have to wait to be expunged, during this time there may well be, torment (knowing that you blew it) but inevitably, a blotting out or destruction or if you like, unmaking occurs.

    Answer to question: It is not QUANTITY that matters to God but QUALITY.

    Lets not forget about abortion! 1.75 million abortions in the USA alone each year! That's a lot of free rides to heaven or however you want to look at it.

    1. Alexander Pease profile image60
      Alexander Peaseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I do not hold the believe that aborted babies go to Heaven, or for anywhere for that matter. I believe that their souls go into a stasis, in-between state of static existence. (Waiting for the next fetus to inhabit and fulfill a life), I think that it would be unfair to the soul not to live a full life that it deserves.

    2. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting. The "period or age of time... will have to wait to be expunged" would be like a Green Room before going in front of the cameras or a Dentists Office waiting room before the root canal, a place one must be for a determinate amount of time where the only thing they can do is pause and reflect before the ultimate event itself occurs. How very fitting a means to an ultimate end.

      And, this ingenious and cleverly contrived bit of torment originates from the very entity one would have to spend a lifetime serving and obeying and then be alongside for the rest of eternity? smile

      1. brotheryochanan profile image61
        brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "There may be a period or age of time"   what part of this once again beely did you not understand??? Must i define the word may for you??

        sound of the buzzer
        keep your inferences to yourself please.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, I see, in other words, you DID want me to point out it was wild speculation of fantasy on your part based on a religious belief? Gotcha.



          It's hard not to notice obsessive compulsive behavior, especially when it's intentionally being presented over and over again. smile

        2. brotheryochanan profile image61
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Also:
          "may well be, torment (knowing that you blew it)"

          this is not firey torture, beely, but a different kind that resides on a level of one realizing THAT THEY BLEW IT.

          MISCOMPREHENSION OF SENTENCES SEEMS TO BE COMMON AMONG UNBELIEVERS. (perhaps this is the problem, not that the scriptures are unbelievable to everyone but just a few who cannot understand what is written in front of them in english. Now add parables, similies, paraboles, hyperboles, metaphors, Anthropomorphisms etc.... no wonder they are so confused.. heres an excellent page describing how to understand the bible for all those out there [and you know who you are smile  ] who always get things wrong.)
          hope this helps
          have a nice day
          http://www.twopaths.com/study_HowTo.htm

          1. Cagsil profile image84
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Another comical joke post from a believer. Nothing new.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I see you misinterpreted that post.
              Nothing new from you

              1. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You might have misunderstood cagsil. I don't think he was saying it was a humorous post..I think he was saying it was a joke of a post, kind of like it was inane. I could be wrong.

                1. brotheryochanan profile image61
                  brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  i did not misunderstand cags post. It is in line with ALL his other posts.
                  short, uninformative, nonbiblical and not new, at least nothing new that isn't a comical joke of a  post from an unbeliever.

                  1. Cagsil profile image84
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    If you were actually informed, you might just scare yourself. Enough said on that.

                    As for what I meant, yes- the post was a joke, no different than any other BS assumptive, misguided and foolish believer. It's about all that can be mustard by any believer.

                  2. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That might be the problem. If you think everything must be biblical, you're right. Cags thinks for himself. Outside of your little box.

                    I would think you would, at the least, consider that since you believe God made us, he included a brain for a reason. A lot of us use them in the exact manner I believed we were supposed to, when I believed in Christianity.

  6. Teylina profile image60
    Teylinaposted 5 years ago

    Nope, Stacie, no trick question. It's been around, worded differently, by many people--most don't bring it up because they don't want to hear what's out there. just_curious, I feel your pain, and Mr. Hamilton (forgot 1st name, sorry!), feel yours, too. AE caught me with her "sigh" at the end of her comment. That is what we all feel because of the suffering in this world. I have seriously studied (including using diaglots and whatever other Bible translations/commentaries, etc., using original language) a great deal, and I'm no expert, still. Yes, there are probably as many beliefs as numbers! The "Christian" religions are so divided, it's unbelievable: I think the last I heard there were over 350 different sects of Baptists, alone! Don't remember the verse and am not going to look it up, but there is one that refers to those who lead (not sure of wording--referring to 'preachers', etc.) as "tickling the ears of those listening," or, in other words, saying what people want to hear. So many people have grown up and been indoctrinated into the belief of only heaven and hell (w/the exception of those who believe in the rapture, I guess), that I personally think they've missed one major factor: where was man created to live in the first place? Doesn't it seem logical that if you built a gorgeous home, or even a neat ant farm! (animal lover, me), and rats came in, you would get rid of the rats (or the anteater if one got in your ant farm?). Can't help it, I really love flesh and blood, and I love this earth, and I can't believe that when I die I'll go to either heaven or hell. Personally, I don't believe in an immortal soul, on which that belief must be based. I belief death is simply not being, that the soul is the life-force, itself (Eccl. and other scripts) and I believe that God, Yahweh, Jah, whoever you want to call him, can and will resurrect anyone He chooses (all of us, perhaps--yes, I think He is capable of forgiving murderers--he reads hearts--we read newspapers). That could be to heaven or the earth. Hell? The word translated into hell literally means the grave. Some translations speak of Jesus being in hell! The word gehenna referred to a literal place outside the city of Jerusalem I believe where refuse, criminals, etc. were burned. Somewhere down the line the words became confused. That's my personal take. Curiously, a few weeks ago I saw and shadowed interview (several) with ministers of our "Christian" religions who said they were now atheists! (either 26% or 36%--a study out of Stanford, I think). I know I've brought more flame to the fire, but I can't keep my mouth shut--never could. I like the old lady I met years ago who said she quit going to church because she got sick and tired of listening to the preacher talk about a god of hell and damnation. "I watch my cats/dogs/squirrels/birds: don't tell me God doesn't have a sense of humor," she said. "I like to think of him as a god who sings in the shower!" Love it. Need Christ to "kick ass." Believe he will--isn't the Devil pretty much running things right now? I'm saying no more, and will follow but not respond any more. Sorry, everybody. Gotta "stand up and be counted," --who said that? Whoever, thanks. And thanks for the sigh, AE!

  7. Teylina profile image60
    Teylinaposted 5 years ago

    Please, remember, everybody, I'm not preaching, etc. I'm answering for me for my own personal beliefs and in a lengthy (sorry) way, answering personally, yes, I have thought about it, and I, too, am saddened. World's in a mess, and we're all sick of it. Hope I lose ALL my followers¡ Peace to all of you.

  8. Teylina profile image60
    Teylinaposted 5 years ago

    Aaaargh! Missed "don't" - please don't everybody hate me and quit following 'cause I'm different! Gandhi said he wouldn't be a Christian (I am) because Christ didn't act like we do!

  9. Arian Rey profile image80
    Arian Reyposted 5 years ago

    Who are we to judge other people. If we could only live by the Bible, those timeless articles about how God included mankind on His Plans, we will not  be bothered by confusing philosophies anymore.

  10. 70
    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago

    How Many People Would You Kill To Get Into Heaven?

    The Truthful Religion is peaceful does not want that anybody should be killed for salvation or going into heaven.

    Anybody who kills a human being except when one is attacked agressively to kill one; then one could fight in defence.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      10 Commandments would answer that question.

    2. FreeThoughtist profile image61
      FreeThoughtistposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      About that...

      Matthew 5:38-39
      Romans 12:19
      Proverbs 20:22

      No self defense allowed.

      1. 70
        paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        How Many People Would You Kill To Get Into Heaven?

        The Truthful Religion does not allow to kill any person intentionally:

        [4:93] It does not become a believer to kill a believer unless it be by mistake. And he who kills a believer by mistake shall free a believing slave, and pay blood money to be handed over to his heirs, unless they remit it as charity. But if the person slain be of a people hostile to you, and be a believer, then the offender shall free a believing slave; and if he be of a people between whom and you is a pact, then the offender shall pay blood money to be handed over to his heirs, and free a believing slave. But whoso finds not one, then he shall fast for two consecutive months — a mercy from Allah. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
        [4:94] And whoso kills a believer intentionally, his reward shall be Hell wherein he shall abide. And Allah will be wroth with him and will curse him and will prepare for him a great punishment.
        http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=93

        If someboyd kills a person purposely instead of going to heaven the killer will go to hell in terms of the above.

        1. FreeThoughtist profile image61
          FreeThoughtistposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You seem to be confused. I was responding to your statement about self defense and didn't realize you were islamic.
          In this case, I need not quote the Qur'an because there are plenty needlessly violent passages in it, and rather have me quote them for your sake I suggest reading the darned thing before you quote it, if you have not yet already.
          If you have, and believe it to be truth, then I must urge you to seek help immediately because no healthy human being should find the violent acts you'll find therein attractive by any means.
          Islam is a religion of peace; yeah, sure.

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            It's true, It's chocka full of hate and threats as far as the eye can see.

            Just like the bible's OT really. smile

          2. 70
            paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Please don't mention many; just quote the one you think is the most violent in the Truthful Word Revealed.

            I am sure that there is no violent verse in Truthful Word Revealed; instead there are plenty peaceful.

            [5:28] And relate to them truly the story of the two sons of Adam, when they each offered an offering, and it was accepted from one of them and was not accepted from the other. The latter said, ‘I will surely kill thee.’ The former replied, ‘Allah accepts only from the righteous.
            [5:29] ‘If thou stretch out thy hand against me to kill me, I am not going to stretch out my hand against thee to kill thee. I do fear Allah, the Lord of the universe.
            [5:30] ‘I wish that thou shouldst bear my sin as well as thy sin, and thus be among the inmates of the Fire, and that is the reward of those who do wrong.’
            [5:31] But his mind induced him to kill his brother, so he killed him and became one of the losers.
            [5:32] Then Allah sent a raven which scratched in the ground, that He might show him how to hide the corpse of his brother. He said, ‘Woe is me! Am I not able to be even like this raven so that I may hide the corpse of my brother?’ And then he became regretful.

            [5:33] On account of this, We prescribed for the children of Israel that whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. And Our Messengers came to them with clear Signs, yet even after that, many of them commit excesses in the land.

            http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=32

          3. 70
            paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Please don't mention many; just quote the one you think is the most violent verse in the Truthful Word Revealed.

            1. FreeThoughtist profile image61
              FreeThoughtistposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Alright, are you referring to the Qur'an? Because if you are would you do as such please? I don't have time to figure out what you mean.

              1. 70
                paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Please quote just one verse from Qurah which you think is the most violent.

                1. FreeThoughtist profile image61
                  FreeThoughtistposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Well summing them all up is pretty difficult, albeit impossible, but I'll give it a shot with two quotations:

                  One of the many that dictates you kill the infidel: Qur'an (2:191-193)
                  And another that states the responsibility all muslims have; that "fighting is prescribed to you": Qur'an (2:216).

                  Clearly you've not yet read your 'holy' book closely if you still think it's full of fair tales and unicorns. Well, it does mention unicorns but that's besides the point.

                  The point is that you have a responsibility to won up to if you believe these things; and if you do, we have nothing more to talk about because I already know your intent is to cause bodily or psychological harm.

                  Thank you; that is all.

                  1. 70
                    paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this



                    [2:191] And fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, Allah loves not the transgressors.
                    [2:192] And kill them wherever you meet them and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for persecution is worse than killing. And fight them not in, and near, the Sacred Mosque until they fight you therein. But if they fight you, then fight them: such is the requital for the disbelievers.
                    [2:193] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
                    [2:194] And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is freely professed for Allah. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the aggressors.
                    2:195] The violation of a Sacred Month should be retaliated in the Sacred Month; and for all sacred things there is the law of retaliation. So, whoso transgresses against you, punish him for his transgression to the extent to which he has transgressed against you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

                    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=194

                    One could see that it is not general for the non-believers; it is for those Meccans who attacked Medina hundred of mile away outnumbered and well prepared . Can one defend oneself against the agressors?

                    The teaching is very reasonable and rational on all counts.

  11. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    No matter how much a watermellon wants to taste sweet to the mouth;  it won't if it don't.

  12. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Cagsil wrote

    yes- the post was a joke, no different than any other BS assumptive, misguided and foolish believer. It's about all that can be mustard by any believer.

    = = = =


      Good to hear you say that you are no diferent than any other BS      got it written on the calandar.

    1. Cagsil profile image84
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Jerami, Believers are the ones that spread BS. Got it?

      It has nothing to do with me. It was directed at Brother's post that was the joke, not my post. But, I figured it wouldn't take much for my post to be manipulated or twisted to fit something else.

      You must be proud of yourself. roll

  13. Mrs. J. B. profile image60
    Mrs. J. B.posted 5 years ago

    Religious beliefs are not worth discussing because all that happens is fighting... Hello middle east.
    I have the entire left wing reserved downstairs. I will see  a good majority there. Peace

  14. Mrs. J. B. profile image60
    Mrs. J. B.posted 5 years ago

    For all those going downstairs, if you can't find me, when you hear the clip clop, hola Mrs. J. B. is in the house and please tell me your hub score has improved.. HAHA... Relax people.

  15. Greek One profile image80
    Greek Oneposted 5 years ago

    can I pick the people that i am to kill?

    If I go over the required minimum, will i be penalized?

    If they are Hubbers, do I get bonus points?

  16. cheaptrick profile image64
    cheaptrickposted 5 years ago

    Where the Hell IS heaven?In the sky?In your Head?Is it physical?Is it a state of mind?Has any living being been there?Religion is accepted in this world.Religious mystical experience is diagnosed and treated with medication.You can believe in any supreme being you like and that's OK,but if you meet him/her face to face...your going to the funny farm.

    1. aka-dj profile image80
      aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "Has any living being been there?"

      Quite a few I know of, and probably hundreds more I don't.
      However, to those ones (like you), hearing what they have to say would instantly be dismissed on grounds that only you will propose. Everything from dreaming to full blown halucination. If you were open to learn, you might consider it, but, your prejudices will keep you from the truth. sad

  17. 0
    Home Girlposted 5 years ago

    There is enough Heaven and Hell on Earth for everybody. Don't worry, guys, don't fight over it. There is time for everything. If you are alive, on Earth, worry about your life, not death. If you need Hell, go to Japan, to a mother who just lost her child as a result of radiation overdose. Go to Somali or Afganistan, you'll find plenty of Hell there too... You need Heaven? Win a lottery and Go to Frazer Valley, BC, Canada in Spring, or Cornwall, UK, or to Swish Alps when edelweiss blooms. Enjoy your life on Earth and keep it safe and clean.

  18. zshnkhn profile image60
    zshnkhnposted 5 years ago

    hey i like your work you really a good writer keep it up for your good work

  19. manlypoetryman profile image68
    manlypoetrymanposted 5 years ago

    Q. How Many People Would You Kill To Get Into Heaven?

    A. Just One...symbolically..."Die -to-Self": "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20

  20. earnestshub profile image89
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    There is no justification for a god who kills his own creation for whatever reason, and this reasoning is quite neurotic and just plain morally wrong..


    "[2:192] And kill them wherever you meet them and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for persecution is worse than killing."
    Modern man is way ahead of this god.

    1. 70
      paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The verses mention killing of the aggressors in the combat; not in peace times.

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So this verse is OK by your god too is it?

        "Sura 3:151 Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

        1. 70
          paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          [3:150] O ye who believe! if you obey those who have disbelieved, they will cause you to turn back on your heels, and you will become losers.
          [3:151] Nay, Allah is your Protector, and He is the Best of helpers.
          [3:152] We shall strike terror into the hearts of those that have disbelieved because they associate partners with Allah for which He has sent down no authority. Their abode is the Fire; and evil is the habitation of the wrongdoers.
          [3:153] And Allah had surely made good to you His promise when you were slaying and destroying them by His leave, until, when you became lax and disagreed among yourselves concerning the order and you disobeyed after He had shown you that which you loved, He withdrew His help. Among you were those who desired the present world, and among you were those who desired the next. Then He turned you away from them, that He might try you — and He has surely pardoned you, and Allah is Gracious to the believers. —
          [3:154] When you were running away and looked not back at anyone while the Messenger was calling out to you from your rear, then He gave you a sorrow in recompense for a sorrow, that you might not grieve for what escaped you, nor for what befell you. And Allah is well aware of what you do.
          [3:155] Then, after the sorrow, He sent down peace on you — a slumber that overcame a party of you — while the other party was anxious concerning their own selves, thinking wrongly of Allah like unto the thought of ignorance. They said, ‘Is there for us any part in the government of affairs?’ Say, ‘All government belongs to Allah.’ They hide in their minds what they disclose not to thee. They say, ‘If we had any part in the government of affairs, we should not have been killed here.’ Say, ‘If you had remained in your homes, surely those on whom fighting had been enjoined would have gone forth to their deathbeds,’ that Allah might bring about His decree and that Allah might test what was in your breasts and that He might purge what was in your hearts. And Allah knows well what is in the minds;
          [3:156] Those of you who turned their backs on the day when the two hosts met, surely it was Satan who sought to make them slip because of certain doings of theirs. But certainly Allah has already pardoned them. Verily, Allah is Most Forgiving, Forbearing.

          http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=147

          It is again about the Meccan non-believers who were in combat; they attacked Medina several hundred away aggressively out-numbered and well prepared; they attacked to eliminated Muhammad and his followers. Muhammad had a right to defend himself and his companions to co-exist.

          Please read the verses; these are not generalized for every non-believer of every time.

          The Creator-God did enter strike terror in the hearts of Meccan non-believers and when Muhammad responded their attacks they could not stand before Muhammad and his followers.

          Very reasonable and rational teachings by any standards.

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            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hey paar. You might be amazed at how many standards don't call the teachings and sayings in the quran reasonable and rational. But, then again, you probably already know that. smile

          2. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, I can see how you have been indoctrinated from the teaching of non-believers as evil wrongdoers and that our abode will be fire, for no more a reason that we don't accept Islam, and that Muslims will "strike terror in the hearts" as reasonable and rational. You attack non-believers constantly with exactly the same mindset your religion has taught you to accept. smile

 
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