In the day and age we live in there is alot of misinformation out in the media about my religion, so I am doing my part as a good American citizen and try to shed some light on the situation.So please feel free to ask me about what ever is on your mind.
What is your favorite part about your religious path?
My favorite part would be the relationship that I have with God, in Islam we have direct access to him and there is no middle man involved. I can pray and talk to him from where ever I am and I know that He hears me, I love to wake up in the middle of the night when the house is all quiet and everyone is sleep and just spend some one on one time worshipping and glorifying His auspicous name. There is no feeling like the calm that over takes you when you put aside worldly distractions and focus on your Creator.
Are you saying the Quran and Hadiths are filled with misinformation?
hey Beelzedad, how going on, hope fine. i should remind you that Quran is the book nobody every proved its contain wrong information. But some so called scholar misinterpret the mining of Quran. My suggestion is to everybody open your heat to accept truth.
One more comment is why i should give prove to you, its your duty to find the truth. Coz every human brain had brain, need to make it useful that's it
No one has proved it contains right information, either. So what?
What it most certainly does contain the teaching of violence in forms of how Muslims deal with non-believers and the barbaric punishments to its followers.
Sorry, but if your truth includes the violence taught and condoned in the Quran, it is not acceptable.
The truth is in reality, not the Quran.
Two sides to a coin, the source or god is One, All.
There is immense wisdom as well in the Quran,possible by only a few ,I repeat immense wisdom.
I am not particularly fond of some passage from holy texts but then the essence of god permeates these books , they are timeless, the mysteries of mankind and god is revealed .
Sure, many holy books have some interesting ideas in them, although it is not to say those ideas were divinely inspired by their authors. They could just as easily be reasoned.
Which god is revealed? Zeus? Thor? Arnarquagsag, queen of the Eskimo underworld?
We could help one another; helping one is a virtue.
Well, many critical thinking people think that your God does not exist. Can you prove that they have been misinformed?
No I can not prove this to them and neither would I waste my time, my God is the same God of the Christians and Jews. Yes we may call Him by different names but He is still the same God.
Yes but you have to find it out yourself, spiritual writing is meant to tickle, inspire mans souls into enlightenment.
There is no scale or scientific instrument known by man with which it can scale or calibrate god, thats why GOD.Science has been using the Particle Accelerator for many years, the universe just gets more and more complex. Humans are made because of meteors and the mixture has made us is what science says.
Makes perfect sense of course I know which meteor and where it came from. Science is very limited with knowledge and the chi energy used by yogis and martial artists is a goo example to defy science. Its been known my many, countless humans.
Try to see truths which exist and are beyond the grasp of science.
Then you are this Light or god, its your source ,essence, bliss, home.
Meditate regularly, for say 30 min e very day at the same spot for maybe days months or years ,it varies and you must have no distraction or minimum distraction.Also early morning when its peaceful.
Religion is all about misinformation, simply because it is based on "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. Islam is no different.
I applaud your bravery.
I know many Muslims and all of them are respectable, polite and thoughtful people.
Do you know of any Muslims in America that support the extremists?
Do you know any that has publicly declared outrage at the maniacs that use your religion as a source to commit atrocities? Can you provide any links to some? I would like very much to read statements by American Muslims that are appalled by these actions.
No I dont know of anyone who supports extremist and if I did, I would not spend much time around them. It upsets all Muslims when the actions of a few misguided individuals is used to paint a whole religion. I doont see anyone saying that all Christians support the KKK even though they were all Christians and were known to murder.luch amd mutilate defenseless innocent people. Yet they are still allowed to exist and hold parades and bring people into their sick ideology. There about 1.6 billion Muslims in the wolrd today and the number steadly grows each year, but these extremist are less than 1% yet their actions are allowed to put all law abiding peaceful muslims under a clou of suspicion. Why is that? Also here is a link to what members of my community are doing to help stop the madness and unite people of different faiths...http://www.umcforum.org/
I am proud of Americans like you. Thank you for the response, I never had any thoughts that you were associated with extremists.
I wish more Muslims would condemn these actions so that the doubt of Muslims=terrorists can be put to an end! I respect the fact that you have opened yourself to questions and congratulate you on your loyalty to the freedoms that the United States provides..
Thank you for your comments and I wish there were more people like you who are willing to ask questions so that any misconceptions they have about Islam can be cleared up and laid to rest. Please do not hesitate to ask a question becasue we are more than willing to answer them for you.
For a moment I thought you were French...
My question is :
Why are Muslim countries going through Middle Age now whereas Christian countries got out of those obscure times more than 4 centuries ago while Muslims were building a culturally fertile and prosperous civilization ?
What's missing ?
Would you be opposed to living under the Caliphate enforced by Sharia Law?
The Caliphate now-a-days is in the Ahmadiyya; every Ahmadi follows the law of the land where he lives in, in the temporal and secular matters; in other matters we follow Quran/Islam/Muhammad/Caliphate.
No I would not, if the Shariah was being carried out correctly and in accordance with the way God established it.
Your "Hubpage"name confuses me.
Well lets start with the word "knowledge." In English the definition is "the state or fact of "knowing."
To "know" is defined as: "To regard as true beyond doubt."
You call yourself: "Seekerofknowledge" and yet you adamantly profess a belief in a "god" thing you cannot "know," but can only opine!
Now, the confusion I experience when I read your screen name and your words, is that what your "name" implies and what your religious beliefs are, exist at opposite ends of the "reality" continuum!
How can one be seeking knowledge when one is so indoctrinated in "fairytale" that "REALITY" exists only on the pages of a book created by an imperfect human creature and are considered, BY YOU, to be the "perfect" words of a fictional, supernatural divinity you worship as allah?
If you were "truly" a "seeker of knowledge," you would not be "fanatically" involved in that which your mind has been "brainwashed " to accept as being the "gospel" truth.
THAT, which in FACT, is just the extremity of programmed bigotry.
Do you understand the basis of my confusion?
If you do, pls try to offer me a clarifying explanation in other than just your opinion based soley upon religious "faith."
If you can't, I can't consider you to be a credible responder.
I would have to consider you to be just another easily led, programmed follower. Certainly not a learned "thinker."
Im sorry that your confused...cuz I find myself confused by your question.
You answered my question perfectly.
I expected that answer.
Your funny Qwark...I find your quips quite entertaining....lol
...functioning at the intellectual level of a controlled, programmed "robot," I also understand this reply from you.
This will end my "chat" with you.
As a pre-programmed, religious "bot," You offer nothing credible to consider or respond to.
I know I'll get some flak for asking this, but how do Islams feel about the attacks of 9/11 and about the events that transpired afterwards leading all the way up to Bin Laden's demise? Granted, I know you can't answer for all Islamic people out there, but i would be curious to know one's opinion on the current events.
I do apologize if my question offends you, as I can assure you that's not my intention. No, I just like to hear the opinions of all sides in a situation. Since you're the only one that i know that's Islamic, that's why I asked since you offered. As I said before, I know you can't answer for every Islam out there, as I'm sure I can't answer for every American out there. However, I am curious to hear your thoughts on this matter.
Steve we are referred to as Muslims, those of us who practice the religion of Islam are called Muslims. And I cant speak for all Muslims regarding those horrendous attacks against my fellow Americans, But I found such an attack in no way in accordance with what my religion teaches and i hope that all those who had a hand in these attacks, both known and unknown will pay the price for the mayhem they caused.
Assalamualikum sister, for your wonderful truth, pray for me to achieve the ultimate success. May Allah Help us........
When I see their women on the street their face is covered except for their eyes. Are these women that ugly or that beautiful?
Good one maybe not? If they have to hide their faces maybe they have some sickness like leprosy?
Or, maybe they are so stunningly beautiful, no man can resist them.
one will never know but I wish they did not have to cover up like that.
I couldn't agree with you more, Dave. Women are beautiful and I can't think of one who would ever not want to hear that.
Could be wrong, though.
I wonder why people ae so obsessed about what a muslim woman wears. Why is it any ones concerns what she wears and why? WE cover to protect ourseelves from the lustful glances of men, only our husbands or close male family members will know what goes on under burkahs/abaya or jilbabs so yall can just keep on guessing...lol
Where do you get the notion anyone is obsessed?
Simple, women are not being treated as humans in the Islamic world as they are elsewhere in the world, which means they are not allowed their basic human rights.
Obviously, you have swallowed Islamic indoctrination. You are accepting the fact that you should be covered up based on the misogynist views of your religion.
No one cares what goes on under your bhurka. We are more concerned for your rights as a human being, which the bhurka symbolizes as devoid of those rights.
Lustful glances of men?
Yes that just maybe it...but you will never know.
I have not engaged this area of theology well, so do forgive a gaping literary ignorance and practical application of your theistic approach to living from my vantage point.
According to my notes, Abram is also your father, yet you [the general culture] reflect heavily on the speaker [Muhammad -again the meaning of the name, not the individual] where as your Hebrew brothers regard Moses [Moshi] as their speaker.
Question One: Why have the men of your practices disregarded Abram and his work of faith in exchange for a somewhat Dharmic~Taoist textual prefect?
Question Two, do they consider Sarai [Saraj] their mother or Keturah?
I will try to answer your question to the best of my ability.... Abraham is much revered in Islam as it it through his son Ishamel that the Arab race began. Both Judaism and Islam are brothers because Ishaq and Ishmael were brothers. As Muslims we praise Abraham in every prayer that we make throught the day, in all 5 prayers that we offer we send praises and salutations upon both Prophet Abraham and Prophet Muhammad ( peace and blessing of God be upon them both). By keturah you mean Hajar? Sarah is the mother of the Isrealites and Hajar (Keturah) is the mother of the Arabs tot he bewst of my knowledge.
We respect all messenger prophets of every revealed religion of the world. It is a part of our faith
Yes, I am well aware of where the Arab come, as my mother is.
But I was referencing not so much the 'remembrance' of Abram in prayers, but rather the application of faith, as he expressed it.
I was unaware Abram was considered a true prophet. This is interesting, as he would then be a greater prophet than Muhammad (descendant of Ishmael?) and Moshe (descendant of Levi). In fact, his testimony --proof of faith-- is still evident even today, as from him the nations come.
To my knowledge, Hagar was not a wife, but an Egyptian/Assyrian slave girl, assistant to Sarai, later Abram's concubine who was given to him as a gift directly from the Pharaoh (back then, a huge honor). Hagar bore Abram many sons --Ishmael being highly noted. It is interesting to note, she takes Ishmael to the Egyptian lands to find a wife --which is the Assyrians, whom she knew well.
Sarai was a wife and upon her death, Abram married Keturah (mother of all Persians), who bore him six sons --one of which is Midian. Keturah is believed to be of Ethiopian decent, which explains many of the similarities between Hebrew and Early African beliefs, and the incorporation of Asian (Taoism) and Indian (Hindi) beliefs.
I am fascinated by the fact that from Jacob/Israel, came Levi, first priest of Israel, from which would come Moshe.
Jethro, son of Midian, father of the daughters --one of whom Moshe married, came from Ketruah.
Abraham and Moses were great messengers and prophets; truthful ones of course. but they were not the greatest.
Surely Abram is greater than both Moshe and Muhammad, as he is their father. Is a son greater than a father? No. Now, be wise, Paar, and do the command : bring honor to your father, Abram, live by faith, so you may dwell in the land for as long as your Creator allows, yes?
Paar, from what I have read here, live by words in books --like other theists. Do you think you can escape the same fate using the same tools and texts, written by the same or different men?
My question to you is; why do you think there is the so called misinformation in the media?
There is lots of disinformation about everything in the media. No subject is excluded, lol
There is alot of misinformation in the media especialy when it comes to Islam. The only time there is mention of Islam is when its associated with some terrorist plot, or a muslim man commits an act of violence against his wife or children. The plight of muslim women is made to appear that we are second class citizens and are subjegated by our religion, because we cover we are seen as oppressed and in need of rescue. Tell me when was the last time you heard a positive story in the media about Islam or Muslims in general. And ask yourself why you will have a hard time finding such a thing.
Why is the Trinity wrong, but your god can have many names?
I dont understand your question...
The Trinity defies logic and reasoning, why would there be a father son and holy spirit. Why cant you just worship God alone with out the additional factors?
The question was why you have many names for your god?
The trinity I agree is difficult to understand, but we are also three parts, mind, body and soul, so when God made us in His image I guess He was aware that there were multiple parts of God.
But still just one God.
I live in a Muslim country, let me ask you, why are Muslim countries so afraid to let their people hear about Christ?
Where I am it is illegal for me to speak openly to a Muslim about Christ.
What are they afraid of?
They are afraid for your safety, which doesn't seem to be something you yourself have recognized or acknowledged.
Nonsense, when you speak of Christ to most Muslims, show them where their book denys Him,they are keen to know more, I have NEVER felt threatened by a normal Muslim, only by the authorities, who are just as bad as the church was in the middle ages.
We are not afraid of Christ; we believe in Jesus and Mary; they are mentioned in Quran in many a chapter.
The Creator-God Allah YHWH is only ONE; He has many attributes.
Sorry, but you stepped right into that one. You must not read these forums much, huh?
what would you say if someone said you are being inappropriate and should be ashamed of yourself for posting your picture online without a burka (or for going out in public in general without wearing a burka)?
Burka is not mentioned in Quran; the first and the foremost source of guidance of Muslims whatever the denomination.
Some people feel that it is convenient for them.
It is also not mentioned in the five pillars/articles of faith.
I realize that, but I was interested in hearing from a woman who has chosen to wear a hijab, but not a burka... and the reaction of that among those in her community
LOL!....how would you know if I wasnt wearing a Burkah or Abaya, my profile pic is only a head shot...
Well the word Burkah is not mentioned in the Holy Quran the word that is used is overgarment or anyhting which you would wear over your clothing when you go out in public....here is the ayah from Surah Al Ahzaab 33:59...O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful. Now an ovrgarment has different names jilbab, abaya, burkah or overgarment what evert he name its purpose it an item of clothing that you wear over your clothes when you leavee the house and mingle in the public. They come in all sorts of different styles and colors here are some examples of overgarments or burkahs...
Or this fashion accessory....
Well if thats what they choose to wear than thats their business...why someone would choose to wear all black when Gods creation is so colorful, That is something I will never understand.
But when they kill their children who dare not to wear it, it stops being their business...
You quote "Surah Al Ahzaab 33:59...O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.".
The key theme is that the women will not be abused. So Arab men have problems controlling their sexual desires and unless women cover up, the men will prey on them. I guess this is related to the reason women are forbidden to travel without a family male escort. So whilst the Arab man has the problem, the Quran chooses to patch up the problem by blaming the woman for being somehow provocative, instead of dealing with the real problem of Arab male morality.
Here's news for the Quran, Western men are not so depraved of mind. We have greater respect for women, and thus they have the freedom to dress or undress as they choose.
Here, in the West, the direction would be relaxed; Quranic teachings are flexible and rational to the culture where one lives.
I find your statement laughable because women in the US are constantly harrassed when they are out in public. I am sure the US has highest rate of sexual assaults and rapes compared to the rest of the world. Why do you think there are now sexual harrassnment laws on the books, and these things happen in the work place where they now have to have sexual harrassment seminars to teach American Men how to deal with women. Men in America are not depraved? Who are you kidding?...The number of sexual offfenders increease every years here in the US they are in every neighborhood these animals prey on women and children. American men are not so depraved of mind, well tell that to the women and children who have been victimized. And a quesstion for you, how many Arab men here in the US have been convicted of raping American women? Just some food for thought.
How many islamic fanatics kill their children if they don't live up to islamic law?
Disgustingly primitive, barbaric action!
Not looking forward to Shariah Qwark? Wouldn't it be great to turn on the television and invite the taliban in to your home?
Why you could even set up an area you want paved, spread a rumor about someone having had sex without permission and have all the stones moved free!
I'm getting excited at the thought!
Bury her with only her head showing in the area I want paved and spread the news!
I see a tailgate party in my future!...
See" I knew we would just love it! Women don't get raped where there is shariah law, or at least you can be almost certain she will not report it unless she thinks it is OK for her brothers or father to kill her for her part in the rape.
What right does she have being outside her home alone. Free for all!
"If anyone has any questions about Islam then Im the woman for you."
Think we should ask her about that? Or wouldn't that be islamically correct?
I can live without her quite well, not a big fan of shariah law.
She would have a pup I reckon.
Thank you for letting is all see what a muslim woman in America truly thinks of us. I'd give up now if I were you. You just lost all credibility and any sympathy I might have had for a muslim such as yourself being kept as a slave within these borders.
I am curios...but who is being kept as a slave?
You are. Belief in God does not mean you are somehow of less value than another human being. There is no God that wants you covered and hidden. Men and women are of equal value. Until religion gets that through their thick heads you will always be a slave. The fact that you are raising young girls who will have to struggle with accepting this insanity while faced with the light of day is disconcerting, to say the least.
I realize you can't see this, but you are wrong about American men. Your religion has taught you fear and hatred. You can attempt to be courteous and engaging; but you've exposed yourself by your post concerning men in our society. That is who you are. That is why most Americans will remain leary of Islam. Until you overcome your hatred of us we will not be able to overcome our fear of you.
Nobody is denying there are rapes in western countries, but the difference is that abuse of women is openly discussed,
Rape is a crime that has a very negative effect on society, and thank goodness it is reported and the perpetrator/s hunted until found in most cases.
A muslim women can not report rape for fear of having her own family kill her for the "shame" she has bought on them. She is the victim.... twice!
I liked what you said here, it was honest.
I am American, and no I dnt view all American men in the way i just described, I was making a point about the amount of sexual assaults and rapes that happen too women by American men. It was in response to someone saying Arab men cant control themselves. For years women dressed modestly in this country, its only with in the last decades that eveyrone is taking thier clothes off and flaunting thier bodies. Well thats good for them, but I choose to cover and keep my charms for my hubby, my body is not on display for every man to gawk at with lustful eyes. And if you think they are not , then your fooling yourself. I look at it this way, a queen is always dressed demurly and modestly when she is out and about, no one would respect as queen if she was wearing skinny jeans and tight shirt with all her cleavage showing. So as a Muslim Queen I dress myself accordingly and when I am out in public I have the rspect of those around me, I can walk about freely and not have to worry about being accosted or harrassed.
Your statement about Americans being leery of Islam is true thanx to the negative image portrayed by the media, but there are millions of Americans who are Muslim and the numbers grow every year.
It sounds to me as if you just reiterated the lie and the insult. I believe another poster asked you for statistics to back this up. I think it was a fair request.
First you insult the men of the west and now the women. Your problem is you think you exist for one purpose only. You subjugate yourself to your husband and the will of every other man. If you think you exist only for the purpose of sex, of course you would think that's all they are thinking about too. I don't understand that mentality, nor do I care to.
That may be true of some Americans, but the most disturbing information I have received has been from you and one other muslim woman. You have no idea how much my opinion of Islam has slipped during the course of this conversation.
I have only insulted those who are guilty of such crimes, I dnt need statisticss to back up my claims all you have to do is read the newspaper ot watch the 6 o clock news. But if its statistics you want then I will produce them.
My opinion of you has slipped that you would categorize an entire religion and the women who practice it as jsut being sex slaves with no mind of thier own. I take offense as a Muslim woman and for other Muslim women that you have smeared by your ignorant statement. Islam was the first religgion that gave women God given rights, these rights have been put in place so that we would be protected and not abused. But men in some instances have taken these rights and perverted theem and use to oppress women in some countries. But as an American I am free to practice my religion in letter and spirit and in my community we practice ISlam the way God intended. My Sheikh doesn't allow the women in his community to be abused or mistreated and any man who does is dealt with immediately. So thats why I find your statements laughable. If you have real questions about my religion, plz ask me and I will let you know the truth.
You would only know the truth if your sheik decided to share it, obviously. I have no problem with you practicing your religion except for the fact that you say american men are depraved and american women are abused. Sounds to me like your religion has lied to you all the way around.
I can't ask questions of someone who either lies or is blind to the truth. You'll just post more lies.
Yes, you do need to produce the statistics because your claim are empty without them.
Protected from what? Who is abusing you?
The laws in the land you live also protect you from being abused or mistreated. What's your point?
What about the assaults and raping of women in an Islamic society? Are you saying that is not a problem because a Bhurka will protect those women?
Queens don't cover their faces or themselves up in bhurkas. Huge difference.
Hilarious, you actually believe a bhurka is going to keep you safe from being harassed? Perhaps, you are getting that impression because most people will stay away from you if you are wearing a bhurka because you look like a criminal?
That is a lie, women are treated like humans.
What do you base that on other than the Islamic propaganda you've swallowed? Do you have any studies on the subject? Have you compared those studies with the sexual assaults committed in Islamic countries?
Seems you are lying again.
The mindset in America has changed over the years in that women are treated differently than before. Of course, in the Islamic world, women are still treated as they were centuries ago, like livestock or furniture.
Again, are you lying about that or do you have studies that support your claims? It would appear you are lying about that too.
Show us those statistics. Or, are you lying again?
Why not show us the statistics rather than lying about it?
Ask the person to produc thier proof who claimed that Arab men cant control themselves and that why Muslim women have to cover. Women cover themselves for centuries, But why is it that when a muslim woman does it theen she is oppressed. Saint Mary is coveered and is wearing a Hijab, catholic nuns cover but none of these womenn are seen as oppressed. So what is the difference with Muslim women?
wow, I think you just cut him to the quick. lol. Very well said.
Did you know, in American fashion history, the Hijab was quite popular until the mid 1950's. Even today, older women are ever seen with them on --modified of course, by the likes of Jackie O.
Also noted is many , many Christian and Eastern beliefs still adhere to women covering their heads in public --as did the Greeks, Egyptians at one point, and still India today -- and even some S.A. cultures in Mexico and Peru who had no contact with any form of islamic or judeo-christian ideologies for centuries.
Thank you James...Your words have encouraged me to keep on trying to bring light to the true beauty of Islam and the status of Muslim women.
I have many Arabic, Israeli, Armenian neighbors and friends. Not for nothing, but Arabic woman are quite attractive --even with a hijab and a pair of jeans on. Good thing I am married to a tall Russian, else, I too might be tempted. lol (j/k). At any rate, modesty and fashion were once synonymous...
For the record, I cannot say it is supporting the theism of Muslim/Islam, but certainly, I cannot stand ignorance and vicious spin doctors.
I am a strong supporter of equality for all, so must equally admit to you the desire to see all theologies and sciences come to their ultimate apex --ending forever. It is inevitable, yes, but too slow a process for my satisfaction.
Enjoy the day
See any resemblnce people?...WHo is more oppressed?
Why can't Arab men control themselves? Is it because they are sexually repressed as a result of their religion?
Are you a religious cleric like a nun? Or, are you just a follower of your religion? Do all catholic women wear the same clothes as a nun? Do nuns cover up their faces?
There is nothing sexualy repressive about my religion, and why is this subject so important to you. I am sure you can come up with some otherr questions to add to this discussion. No I'm not a cleric, why do you ask?
Not sexually repressive? You were raised to believe men can't control themselves and will leap on the opportunity to rape you unless you cover yourself entirely. There is one very fine example.
And, there are more.
Are you asking me to change the subject because you wish to avoid it? Only want to answer questions that are agreeable to you?
Why did you bother starting this thread, then?
You aren't a cleric, yet you want to dress like one, as per your examples of nuns. Wasn't that made clear?
Does Islam celebrate the death of Osama Bin Laden?
Or, are you all glorifying him as a martyr for the "cause" of Islam?
Was he a terrorist, or a hero, to your religion, (or you personally)?
I find it funny that all mUslims must take the Osama litmus test, in no way does he reprsent Islam or true Islamic ideology yet all of us are viewed in a skewed light because of his actions. How could he be viewed as a hero in Islam when scores of Muslim were also killed in hos horrendouse attacks against innocent civilians. I personally am glad that he is dead and I hope he rots in hell for the atrocities he committed. As an American muslim I was also his enemy because I reside in this great country, his threats against my country was also a threat against me and my fellow Americans. His attacks could have killed me members of my family or freinds, so celebrating him as a hero would never even cross my mind.
Osama was merely using the Quran that teaches and condones Muslims to be violent under various conditions. History is replete of such behavior amongst Muslims. There is nothing skewed about it.
He may very well take his place right beside Allah and Muhammad as far as anyone knows. He may very well have believed he was more a devout Muslim than many others, including yourself.
Yeah well if thats the case then he is delusional...the only place he is going is straight to hell, it is a sin kill unarmed innocent men women and children of any religion. Islam is not the problem its uneducted individuals who take from the Holy Quran what they want to suit their own purpose. Every religion has its extremist so why is it that Islam is made out to be the bad guy.
to answer your question, rightly or wrongly, probably because of this...
That is your personal opinion and is not shared by other Muslims who will take the violent verses in the Quran as their guidance.
Osama was an educated man, as were many of the individuals who carried out atrocities, all in the name of Islam. Your claim is not valid.
All religions are a problem, based on your own words they all have extremists. They are all bad guys. It just so happens that Islam has always been violent, right from it's inception.
When I say uneducated I mean about Islam...ther is noo way that someone can be educated in the letter and spirit of Islam and commit these acts of terrorism.
Again, you are wrong, Osama was very well versed in Islam, as were his followers. Your point is invalid.
And you would know this how?...Are you Muslim? Hav you studies more than a few verses of the holy Quran that you find inflammatory so you can have something to back up your biased view against Islam and Muslims. I was born and raised Muslim in a country where I have the freedom to practice my religion how I see fit. Ihave studied with the best of teachers, so when I say Osama and others like him are ignorant of the true practice of Islam I know what I am talking about. Osama has done a great diservice to the beauty of Islam and for this he will answer to God on the day of judgement, but even now he is paying for his actions in his grave.
I would just like to say that I understand your frustration, but Beelzedad is right. Not simply about Islam, but across the board of the two major religions. They are too open to interpretation by those who would use them for wrong.
You choose to live within your faith. You apparently like the burka, or whatever you call it; but to force it, and a second class mentality on anyone that doesn't appreciate it can't be right.
I'm curious. Will your children be given a choice? Will you respect their decision if they chose to live outside of your faith?
I honesstly cant answer that question right now...I dnt knw what I would do, all I can do is ask God to give me guidance in such a situation.
It is unfortunate you will not answer the question honestly. Do you actual believe an honest answer will come from your god? A god that teaches you to murder people in the most cruel way simply because they had sex?
If she does not have a grown up daughter; she cannot answer the question.
One does not need to be indoctrinated into Islam to read it's words and understand its violent nature with no bias required, the words are there for all to see.
No, you are defending Islam because another Muslim acted on the violence taught in Islam and you are saying he is not a Muslim for doing so.
Sorry, but I see no beauty in the violence that Islam teaches and the violent nature of its barbaric and cruel punishments. In the context of what Islam teaches and condones, Osama may very well be sitting right beside Allah.
Well everyone is entitled to their opinion...but it dosn't mean that is based on truth or facts.
Yes, it is based on facts, the facts of your holy book, which everyone can read for themselves. It teaches and condones forms of violence and punishment that are not acceptable in any moral or ethical environment of today's world other than that of the Muslim.
If you want to live in the dark ages under cruel and inhumane conditions, the Quran is perfect for those guidelines.
The topic of women & Islam is a hot one. Author Aayan Hirshi Ali grew up Muslim in Somalia, she now lives in the Netherlands and promotes the idea that Islam is by nature oppressive to females. Her books detail the horrific treatment of girls and women in her Muslim society. Ms Hirshi takes the stance that this treatment is not merely cultural (not only facets of the society that predate Islam), but a direct result of Islam.
Others, including yourself, have a different experience. I am a Christian, and many talk about how Christianity oppresses women, but this is not my experience at all.
So here are my questions for you: In your experience, do you find faithful Muslim men treat women with respect? Do you find that Muslim men are as eager to educate their daughters as their sons? Does a Muslim man hope for intellectual and spiritual companionship from his wife (in addition to emotional and physical companionship), or would he be more likely to seek those connections with other men?
Yes of course Muslim men treat Muslim women with respect and honor. When it comes to education God has made it obligatory on men women and children to seek knowledge from the craddle to the grave even if one must go to China. My Sheikh has said that a mother is the childs first university so the mother must be educated so that she can properly educate her children. It is very important for girls to receive an education because the lack of it will bring society to a standstill. If a woman is uneducated then so will her children, and if she is forbidden from getting an eduction then it is to the detriment to society as you can see in some Muslim countries. The men foolishly keep their women uneducated and as a result their societies do not prosper.When it come to relationships it depends on the individual and what they view as a healthy relationship, I can only speak for myself but my husband and I have a very loving relationship based on respect and trust. Of course if we follow the example of our Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) who treated his wive with the utmost kindness, love and respect then Muslim men should also try their hardest to follow his example. In Islam the husband and wife are suppose to work as a team with the man as head of household and the woman as his helpmate and companion.
Ayan Hirsi Ali is a very controversial figure, I read her book and was astonished at the treatment she suffered by other muslims. But she is wrong for tryiing to portray Islam as the reason for why women are treated in such a manner. alot of Muslim countries do not follow the practices of Islam in letter or spirit, i am not sure what they are practicing but what ever it is it bears no resemblance to the beautiful religion that I practice.
Wrong, according to who? You?
Perhaps then, you are sympathetic to the Muslims who murdered Van Gogh because of her script?
Funny how real life seems to imitate precisely how Muslims are portrayed.
Why would I be sypathetic to anyone who killed someone in cold blood because they had a difference of opinion on smething....Wht kind of person do you think I am?...Your words are revealing that you have some issues that you need to work out, I hope you dnt talk to everyone in this way...sheesh
It would appear that on one hand you embrace the violence your god teaches and employs on its followers, yet you are not sympathetic to someone who attacked Islam.
You are not consistent in your beliefs at all.
Your religion is revealing in that it is violent and offensive and the way you follow it is inconsistent with your words. It is your religion that has serious issues that need to be worked out.
I agree with you; if someone misbehaves with the women; that it his personal fault; there is no teaching in Quran to misbehave with women.
Because you are here like Daniel in the lion's den. There are those here who's questions challenge you and others who's questions ridicule you for your beliefs because they have none of their own. You sound like an intelligent woman so I think you know this, yet you answer all their questions with honesty and the conviction of your faith.
The penaly for adultery is what ever God says it should be, He has had the same penalty throughtout time He never changed it man is the one who changed it and now its so rampant and out of control it is crazy. The penalty has always been stoning to death if those accused have been found guilty. In Islam the charge of adultery is taken very seriously and is no light manner, but there are rules that must be followed. If someone brings a charge of adultery against someone then they must have four witnesses who say that they caught the person in the act of adultery, if they dnt have these witnesses and the person proclaims their innocence then the case is tossed out. If someone comes forward and confesses that they have committed adultery than they must say it three times before punishment is meted out. If a chaste personis accused of this crime than the accuser is the one who has to suffer a punishment of 83 lashes fr bringing a false charge against an innocent person. Of course for those who live in societies where Shariah law is not the law of the and then stoning is prohibited and some other form of punishment is administered.
interesting (if not very humane)..
Now please tell me...
1) in what verse of the Quran do you believe God mandates stoning for adultery
2)what do you consider 'adultery'.. ie do you (or your God) strictly define it as sexual intercourse between people who are not married?
Well adultery is when a married persons has sexual intercourse with someone other than their spouse...
The Noble Qur'an An-Nur 24:2-9
2. The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allâh's Law).
3. The adulterer marries not but an adulteress or a Mushrikah and the adulteress none marries her except an adulterer or a Muskrik [and that means that the man who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan or idolatress) or a prostitute, then surely he is either an adulterer, or a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater, etc.) And the woman who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater) or an adulterer, then she is either a prostitute or a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan, or idolatress, etc.)]. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers (of Islâmic Monotheism).
4. And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever, they indeed are the Fâsiqûn (liars, rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).
5. Except those who repent thereafter and do righteous deeds, (for such) verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6. And for those who accuse their wives, but have no witnesses except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies (i.e. testifies four times) by Allâh that he is one of those who speak the truth.
7. And the fifth (testimony) (should be) the invoking of the Curse of Allâh on him if he be of those who tell a lie (against her).
8. But it shall avert the punishment (of stoning to death) from her, if she bears witness four times by Allâh, that he (her husband) is telling a lie.
9. And the fifth (testimony) should be that the Wrath of Allâh be upon her if he (her husband) speaks the truth.
Is it not true that the penalty of stoning for adultery is NOT actually mentioned in the Quran, bit rather in hadith?
Ie it is NOT God's specific direction, as you claim?
Stoning is not mentioned in Quran; Hadith was not collected in the time of Muhammad; it was collected 250/300 years after Muhammad. Hadith is accepted only if it is line with what is stated in Quran- the first and the foremost source of guidance for Muslims whatever the denomination.
I agree with you Paar, but we seem to have a dispute between your version of Islam, and KNOWLEDGESEEKER79, who indicated, if I am not mistaken, that stoning was a command by God.
This is an indication to me that when although orthodox Muslims claim their actions and views are sanctioned by their God, they are in fact nothing more than cultural verdicts and preferences put forward by the most extreme (eg stoning and the wearing of the burka).
You're probably talking about the Quran-only movenemt within Islam in which the disingenuous deception of down playing the Hudud and other Hadith and Shariah laws play no part in the Islamic world, that the Muslims life is entirely centered around only the Quran.
This is evident from the Sahih Bukhari that recorded Muhammad himself directly involved in stoning men and women. But somehow, through later versions, we find the verses regarding stoning to have disappeared.
'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him" (Sahih Bukhari 8.82.816).
Horrible, violent religion. Barbaric and cruel punishment. This is not a religion of peace by any stretch of the imagination.
Obviously then, your god has failed miserably in making that work. Most likely, the punishment didn't fit the crime, or did it?
Isn't that rather harsh? Are you in favor of killing someone by stoning them to death just because they had an affair? That is completely barbaric.
That's insane. If people know they will be killed because they are having an affair, they will make sure that there are no witnesses.
Are you serious? Is that some kind of voodoo or magical chant? Ridiculous.
Yes, stoning is not only prohibited in many countries around the world because it is utterly barbaric, cruel and inhumane form of punishment. Only a religion of violence would ever support such atrocious laws and behavior.
Well it is what it is...these are Gods laws...not mans laws. The bible and the Torah also calls for the stoning of adulterers, so are they too violent religions?
Check out these verses from the bible...
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself."
but where is it mentioned in the book you are a specialist in, the Quran?
For punishment of adultery in Quran:
[24:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[24:2] This is a Surah which We have revealed and which We have made obligatory; and We have revealed therein clear Signs, that you may take heed.
[24:3] The adulteress and the adulterer (or the fornicatress and the fornicator) — flog each one of them with a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain take hold of you in executing the judgment of Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … .php?ch=24
Please click the above link to find more verses.
Stoning is not mentioned as a punishment of adultery in Quran.
Yes, those verses went missing.
Originally, the punishment was perpetual imprisonment:
'Shut them (the adulteresses) up within their houses till death release them, or God makes some way for them' [Suratu'n-Nisa' (iv) 19].
Then, through later versions, it was changed to 100 lashes:
The Qur'an (An-Nur 24:2) The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out God's law, if you truly believe in God and the Last Day.
Of course, the crime doesn't fit the punishment whether it is perpetual imprisonment, lashes or stoning. All are barbaric and cruel and do not show Islam as a religion of peace.
What's interesting is that if one was to copy and paste their post in the same thread, an error message emerges:
"You have recently submitted a very similar post, posting the same message repeatedly is prohibited."
Yet, the Islamic propagandist copies and pastes his responses over and over and over ad nauseum.
Why is he allowed to do this? Why do the admins allow him to do this yet others receive an error message.
Is Paarsurrey being paid by Hubpages to run amok over these forums?
For punishment of adultery in the New Covenant:
John 8 1:11
BUT JESUS went to the Mount of Olives.
Early in the morning (at dawn), He came back into the temple [court], and the people came to Him in crowds. He sat down and was teaching them,
When the scribes and Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery. They made her stand in the middle of the court and put the case before Him.
Teacher, they said, This woman has been caught in the very act of adultery.
Now Moses in the Law commanded us that such [women--offenders] shall be stoned to death. But what do You say [to do with her--what is Your sentence]?
This they said to try (test) Him, hoping they might find a charge on which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger.
However, when they persisted with their question, He raised Himself up and said;
Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.
Then He bent down and went on writing on the ground with His finger.
They listened to Him, and then they began going out, conscience-stricken, one by one, from the oldest down to the last one of them, till Jesus was left alone, with the woman standing there before Him in the center of the court.
When Jesus raised Himself up, He said to her, Woman, where are your accusers?
Has no man condemned you?
She answered, No one, Lord! And Jesus said, I do not condemn you either. Go on your way and from now on sin no more.
Seems a better way, and if the same question were asked today, it would still apply to any person:
Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.
Now you can see why the Islamic view of Christ is in error, not a prophet, but empowered by God to forgive and bring people to conviction of their sin.
Hands up who could cast that first stone?
Jesus did not bring a new law; he was follower of the law of Moses.
Matthew 26:27-29 (Amplified Bible)
And He took a cup, and when He had given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, Drink of it, all of you;
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which ratifies the agreement and is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
I say to you, I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it with you new and of superior quality in My Father's kingdom.
You were saying.....?
what do you sa about this...
Adultery in traditional Judaism applies equally to both parties, but depends on the marital status of the woman (Lev. 20:10). Though the Torah prescribes the death penalty for adultery, the legal procedural requirements were very exacting and required the testimony of two witnesses of good character for conviction. The defendant also must have been warned immediately before performing the act.
At the civil level, however, Jewish law (halakha) forbids a man to continue living with an adulterous wife, and he is obliged to divorce her. Also, an adulteress is not permitted to marry the adulterer, but, to avoid any doubt as to her status as being free to marry another or that of her children, many authorities say he must give her a divorce as if they were married.
Also, Jewish law recognizes the "law of the land" in these matters, so that if the law of the land has greater restrictions, then they will also apply.
According to Judaism, the Seven laws of Noah apply to all of humankind; these laws prohibit adultery with another man's wife.
Then, it is obvious your gods laws are brutal, cruel and inhumane and should be tossed out immediately as something only an insane despot would employ.
Absolutely. Disgusting and medieval practices that have nothing to do with modern society.
Your religion is obviously based on violent punishment.
Earnest!!! A NEW PHOTO!!! I don't believe it!!! Somehow, it looks like it's an old photo? Clarify please?
Stoning is not mentioned in Quran a punishment for adultery
You should be less worried about the misinformation, and more worried about the FACTS of your beliefs.
This concept is from the dark ages...and completely absurd...thus no sane person should ever want to willingly worship your psychotic, imaginary God.
So your saying that 1.6 billion people who follow Islam are insane?...Maybe we all should be in the pysch ward.
What would you call a person who believes in nonsensical, imaginary entities and objects that don't exist...and when proven that these things defy common sense...still, stubbornly, refuse to accept reality? Huh?!
No. Simply stop allowing someone else to control you. You have a brain. Use it. No one knows anymore than you do about why we are here...that includes your prophet, Mohammed, who was JUST a mortal, and is now JUST dead.
You are the person I have been wanting to hear from the Muslim community. I share and support many of your sentiments and I am glad you are taking a stand to show there are many God and peace loving Muslims who are not intent on killing everyone who doesn't share their beliefs. People need to know you exist out there and in large numbers too. From what I understand, the "radicals" even kill their own people whenever they have something to be mad about, which seems to be much of the time.
Youtube is littered in videos of Muslims killing other Muslims in the name of Allah. These actions give Islam a bad name around the world.
You mention Christians that kill in the name of Christ... as a Christian I am the first to say, NO they are not Christian, they only call themselves that, but they are not, else they would not do those things in the name of Christ. Christ consistently taught against that.
Perhaps a similar thing could be said within Islam? Would you say people doing horrendous acts in the name of Allah, are not real Muslims? I do not know. I am very ignorant of that faith but I am curious to know.
- Best Wishes,
Yes I would say that they are not really Muslims...We have alot of people masquerading as Muslims and they only bring shame to Islam and those of us who truly want to practice out faith in letter and spirit.
May I ask, are you familiar with the Ahmadi Muslims?
If so, what do you think of their beliefs?
I appreciate your approach.
Thanks and regards
the trinity is not agreed by all christians so why blame muslims for rejecting it? there are cases of priests abusing women and children in churches. The point is that it will be wrong to condemn all because of the actions of others. I rose above all religious barriers and I freely enter into any mystery. I make friends with people no matter the religion or none provided you respect others.People think all Islam is bad,I know it wrong, why can't the good muslims put more effort to help stop terrorism?
Those that question some Islamic doctrines like punishments should know that Islam have various sects just like Christains so there are diifferences. I said the muslims, good and peaceful ones, should put more effort to stop terror. They can do this by teaching the young ones, using the media often, joining those that are in the fight against terror. I know they can do more to help create a more peaceful world where religion will not stand against our spirit of brotherhood.
What? Did God come down to earth to carve these laws in stone? When did that happen? As in Christianity and Judaism, these are man's interpretation of what they think/believe God wants.
There is an elaborate system of interpretaiton.
There is nothing elaborate about it. God has not come down upon the earth to write or dictate any rules. There have been men "inspired by God" who have written God's rules. All of them... from Jesus, Muhammad, Siddhārtha Gautama, and Joseph Smith, etc. They've all been MEN, and everyone knows that it is part of human nature to lie, distort ideas and exagerate. Therefore, no written book has the real deal. Sorry to disagree with you on this.
I don't agree with you.
Jesus, Muhammad, Siddhārtha Gautama were all men who received Word of revelation from the Creator-God; and that made the difference:
[25:8] And they say, ‘What is the matter with this Messenger that he eats food, and walks in the streets? Why has not an angel been sent down to him that he might be a warner with him?
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … mp;verse=0
That is why they are role models of human biengs.
And that's why the world has been fighting wars ever since.
I think it is your wrong analysis; truthful religion has been always peaceful and rational.
Religions are peaceful, but the emphasis on the differences between religions begins that "I'm right-you're wrong" battle. Religious people (those that are so stubborn to think that their belief is more accurate than other's) are willing to give their life to defend their faith. I think it's sad. I doubt it's what God would want for mankind.
I think you need one or two secretaries to feed all this audience.
I couldnt agree more....any volunteers?
My questions to you as a Muslim would be just the same as the questions I would put to any religious person so I won't waste your time on that particular point.
I would just like to say that while I think the world would be better off without religion as a whole, I am glad the world is filled with different cultures and people. The world would be a boring place if everywhere was the same.
There is absolutey no compulsion in the truthful religion; then why not choose a good thing?
[2:257] There should be no compulsion in religion. Surely, right has become distinct from wrong; so whosoever refuses to be led by those who transgress, and believes in Allah, has surely grasped a strong handle which knows no breaking. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
[2:258] Allah is the friend of those who believe: He brings them out of every kind of darkness into light. And those who disbelieve, their friends are the transgressors who bring them out of light into every kind of darkness. These are the inmates of the Fire; therein shall they abide.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=256
Why not become a friend of the Creator-God Allah YHWH?
In the words of my favorite singer/songwriter, Conor Oberst...
"the bible's blind, the torah's deaf, the quran is mute,
if you burn them all together you get close to the truth."
God has nothing to do with rules or punishments. They've all been created by men.
Well if God has nothing to do with punishment then why was the cities of Sodom and Gomorah destroyed by Him?
Who told the stories of God's destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah? Oh, yeah! All these stories were told by MEN. I'm not trying to change your mind on this, obviously. I respect your way of thinking. All I'm saying is, human beings have a way of twisting information to their advantage.
Saint Mary is covered and is wearing a Hijab, catholic nuns cover but none of these womenn are seen as oppressed. So what is the difference with Muslim women?
The only difference is the times that we are living in. It was part of a lady's attire 2000 years ago, but it's been a while since everyone moved on from those outfits. Oppressed or not, the fact that people decide to wear such clothes sends the message that you are stuck in the mindframe of that period of time, when human beings were barbaric and closed-minded.
Nuns do it, but they have an excuse. They devout their lives to celibacy and prayer. For a married woman to still hide under the veil, while everyone else has changed into a comfortable pair of shorts, it reflects an unbending attitude towards the rest of the world.
That's my opinion anyways, but in all honesty, it doesn't bother me. I'm just replying to your question. Whatever a woman decides to wear is her choice.
For years women dressed modestly in this country, its only with in the last decades that eveyrone is taking thier clothes off and flaunting thier bodies. Well thats good for them, but I choose to cover and keep my charms for my hubby, my body is not on display for every man
Nothing is wrong with 'flaunting their bodies", if you have a nice body of course. Sun and fresh air and feeling of nakedness by itself, especially after long cold sunless winter days - it feels so wonderful. Walking around, wrapping into something that looks like a table cloth, stepping on your own skirt, sweeping pavement with it, - that is wrong. If you are beautiful - display it for everybody, let everybody enjoy it. Bright open clothes, they bring joy and hope, that everything will be well in this world. We, women are meant to be looked at and admired by men. Nothing is wrong with that. No matter how beautiful you are, time will come when you'll become old and wrinklish and nothing to look at. Enjoy your spring time while you can, it is SO SHORT!
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