Should the Atheists remain ignorant?

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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Human ignorance in physical matters is removed when confirmed/verified by the Work of the Creator-God, commonly known as nature; it is useful in worldly matters. Human ignorance in ethical, moral and physical is removed when verified by the Word revealed authored by the Creator-God, useful in hereafter.

Atheists know a little of the Work of the Creator-God and they are ignorant of the Word of God, altogether.

Should the Atheists remain ignorant?

I don’t think so.
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  zampanoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus Christ !
  Can you repeat that please ?
  I didn't understand at all what you've just written.
  Have you been drinking ? Or is it me ?
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't stereotyping an entire group of people ignorance in itself? I've found most atheists to be logical and rational people. It is not their ignorance that makes them atheists but they're lack of experience with the spiritual world. they are fact orientated instead of faith orientated.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The fact is that the Universe is created by the Creator-God Allah YHWH; not believing it is ignorance.
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  he cares more about a person doing right in both actions and words than knowing who created the universe. He cares little for knowledge of who created the universe, but cares much for those who tend his gardens even if they know not who planted the seed.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is NO fact that the world was created by a god/creator.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How do you prove that?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have to prove it. You're the one making the outrageous claim.
  
  So, prove a god/creator created the world without using anything related to religion's nonsense.
  
  Then, we'll talk.
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not really something to be proved. You really just have to decide for yourself if it's true or false.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If it is not something to be proved, then I would highly suggest you STOP saying it as though it is something true or some kind of truth.
  
  Learn to realize, when you do say it, it causes conflict.
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  truth usually ends up causing conflict. it shakes the very foundations of a mans soul.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again, do you know why?
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you ask lots of questions my friend. sure ill tell you why it shook my soul. because truth is a heart wrenching experience. most everything you believed to be true winds up being complete and utter bullshit. you have to wade through the torrents of idiotic beliefs accumulated by a lifetime of not being aware. truth eats away at the very core beliefs we hold so dear. it exposes the ego for its own selfish nature.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think the conflict will resolve when the atheists prove from science that Creator-God does not exist.If they cannot prove that then they become believers; as they should very naturally.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  What kind of logic is that?
  
  By that same logic you should 'naturally' become a Pastafarian!
  
  Remind me again: who did you refer to as ignorant?!!
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ramen
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Those who eulogize science; must prove that the Creator-God does not exist. If they are in doubt, they should become believers of their choice.
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  thejeffriestubeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is a very thought-provoking and interesting discussion, but I wonder about one thing. Do you also claim to have invented the question mark? Or accused chestnuts of being lazy? Just saying.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No need to prove it.
  The story is so ridiculous as to be self evident to anyone who cares to find the truth.
  
  Does it need to be proven that Santa is not coming down my chimney, or that there are no fairies at the bottom of the garden?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then one should believe in the Creator-God Allah YHWH; it is very natural to believe in Him.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You nit picked that one, very dishonest of you but well within your usual modus operandi. How about the other invisible entities, such as the tooth fairy?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's only natural for ignorant people who fail in being responsible for self. Sure. Yep!
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  TahoeDocposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchins
  "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan
  
  If you put the burden of proof on those who deny your God, don't you also then have to disprove all of the other Gods? Why not?
  
  Seriously, enough of calling me and others ignorant because we don't subscribe to the same ancient story about the origin of the universe as you do. I know you believe it with all of your being BUT I want you to consider that how you disbelieve other religions or theories about their god-being, we also dismiss yours. It's the same thing. We just don't believe in any of them as you don't believe in all the others.
  
  Are you ignorant for not believing in Christ as the Son/equivalent of God? Are you ignorant for not believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
  
  It is possible, and highly probable, that you are wrong about your assertions that your God created the universe. There is no more proof for your God than there is for any other.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Can you prove that God did not create the Universe?
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Can you prove that Vishnu did not create the universe. Are you aware that yor question is fallacious or are you deliberately using it just to get some attention?
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  TahoeDocposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have to and thought I explained why (and pretty clearly).
  
  Can you disprove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't do it? (or the above mentioned Vishnu or Mithra or Brahma or Pangu?)
  
  If you cannot or do not feel you are required to disprove them, then you understand my answer perfectly.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have it; it is very natural to believe in Creator-God; it is like one believes one's parents.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My parents never threatened to kill me for not following instructions, so I see no connection at all in your example.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If a child is going to fire; won't his parents hold him or pull him back.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sure they did, what has that got to do with torturing and murdering people?
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  TahoeDocposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But what if the parent is the one who made the fire, constantly threatens to throw his child in it for not obeying the parent's word, DOES throw his children into the fire to be tortured if they do disobey? How is that loving and merciful?
  
  Is that love or sick, twisted child abuse by a horrible monster?
  
  When a human parent burns their child as a punishment for disobedience (and it does happen, I've seen the sad results in treating these children), it is child abuse, the public is horrified and no one ever defends the parent's right to do so because the child was disobedient and was warned about the consequences. But with "loving, merciful" father/God, this is OK?
  
  I don't think so.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  [4:111] And whoso does evil or wrongs his soul, and then asks forgiveness of Allah, will surely find Allah Most Forgiving, Merciful.
  [4:112] And whoso commits a sin commits it only against his own soul. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
  [4:113] And whoso commits a fault or a sin, then imputes it to an innocent person, certainly bears the burden of a calumny and a manifest sin.
  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=110
  
  Allah is manifest everywhere in the Universe with his systems; had there been no systems, there had been no sciences.
  
  As He had systems for the physical world or laws working in the Universe so He has laws in the ethical, moral and spiritual aspects of human life.
  
  Human life is endowed with free will, freedom of speech, freedom of choices, freedom of conversion; freedom of doing good and evil.
  
  They say here is no free lunch; He has given so many things free to the human beings yet the above "freedom" has a cost; doing good to the messengers prophets sent by Him and doing good to the human beings. One who defied such manifest laws inflicts cruelty on oneself purposely and hence suffers loss.
  If he later realizes and asks forgiveness and mends his ways; he may be forgiven at His discretion and mercy.
  
  This is fair, rational and reasonable.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. 4:56
  
  They will wish to come forth from the Fire, but they will not come forth from it. Theirs will be a lasting doom. 5:37
  
  For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved. 6:70
  
  And the dwellers of the Fire cry out unto the dwellers of the Garden: Pour on us some water or some wherewith Allah hath provided you. They say: Lo! Allah hath forbidden both to disbelievers (in His guidance) 7:50
  
  If thou couldst see how the angels receive those who disbelieve, smiting faces and their backs and (saying): Taste the punishment of burning! 8:50
  
  On the day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded 9:35
  
  Hell is before him, and he is made to drink a festering water, Which he sippeth but can hardly swallow, and death cometh unto him from every side while yet he cannot die, and before him is a harsh doom. 14:16-17
  
  Thou wilt see the guilty on that day linked together in chains, Their raiment of pitch, and the Fire covering their faces. 14:49-50
  
  We shall assemble them on the Day of Resurrection on their faces, blind, dumb and deaf; their habitation will be hell; whenever it abateth, We increase the flame for them. That is their reward because they disbelieved Our revelations. 17:97-98
  
  Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place! 18:29
  
  The guilty behold the Fire and know that they are about to fall therein, and they find no way of escape thence. 18:53
  
  If those who disbelieved but knew the time when they will not be able to drive off the fire from their faces and from their backs, and they will not be helped! 21:29
  
  Behold them, staring wide (in terror), the eyes of those who disbelieve! 21:97
  
  But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning. 22:19-22
  
  The fire burneth their faces, and they are glum therein. 23:104
  
  For those who deny (the coming of) the Hour We have prepared a flame. When it seeth them from afar, they hear the crackling and the roar thereof. And when they are flung into a narrow place thereof, chained together, they pray for destruction there. 25:11-13
  
  It will be a hard day for disbelievers. On the day when the wrong-doer gnaweth his hands, he will say: Ah, would that I had chosen a way together with the messenger (of Allah)! 25:26-27
  
  But as for those who disbelieve, for them is fire of hell; it taketh not complete effect upon them so that they can die, nor is its torment lightened for them. Thus We punish every ingrate. And they cry for help there, (saying): Our Lord! Release us; we will do right, not (the wrong) that we used to do. ... Now taste (the flavour of your deeds), for evil-doers have no helper. 35:36-37
  
  Those in the Fire say unto the guards of hell: Entreat your Lord that He relieve us of a day of the torment ... although the prayer of disbelievers is in vain. 40:49-50
  
  Those who deny the Scripture and that wherewith We send Our messengers. But they will come to know, When carcans are about their necks and chains. They are dragged Through boiling waters; then they are thrust into the Fire. 40:70-72
  
  Lo! the tree of Zaqqum, The food of the sinner! Like molten brass, it seetheth in their bellies As the seething of boiling water. (And it will be said): Take him and drag him to the midst of hell, Then pour upon his head the torment of boiling water. 44:43-48
  
  Those who are immortal in the Fire and are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels. 47:15
  
  Then how (will it be with them) when the angels gather them, smiting their faces and their backs! 47:27
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Out of context.
  
  You can't go quoting or writing real scripture here that puts the invisible myth entity in a bad light, even if you do quote directly!
  
  It's far too honest, you should be ashamed!
  
  \
  
  Seriously, it must be a helluva job justifying all this disgusting crud as "out of context"
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am truly ashamed for being honest on a religious forum, earnest.
  
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You should be! This is not the first time either!
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  TahoeDocposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What you think is "fair, rational and reasonable" is sick and depraved to me. So be it.
  
  Is it then ok for human parents to burn their children for disobeying their commands if they have warned their children that it would be the consequence of disobedience? If a parent is willing and able to do this, will you say the parent is fair, rational and reasonable? Or is this just ok for the 'loving merciful' God?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are no teaching in Quran for parents to burn their children; definitely not.
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  TahoeDocposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But it's ok for God to do so?
  
  Do you understand the analogy as God as parent/creator of the being. If it's ok for God to burn his children, why not human parents?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think I expalined it; you might have missed it. I therefore repeat it .
  
  As the Creator-God Allah YHWH has systems for the physical world or laws working in the Universe so He has laws in the ethical, moral and spiritual aspects of human life.
  
  Human life is endowed with free will, freedom of speech, freedom of choices, freedom of conversion; freedom of doing good and evil.
  
  They say here is no free lunch; He has given so many things free to the human beings yet the above "freedom" has a cost; doing good to the messengers prophets sent by Him and doing good to the human beings. One who defied such manifest laws inflicts cruelty on oneself purposely and hence suffers loss.
  If he later realizes and asks forgiveness and mends his ways; he may be forgiven at His discretion and mercy.
  
  This is fair, rational and reasonable.
  
  I think it explains
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  nightwork4posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  where did you get your facts from. geez bud, you talk like you know more then everyone else which is the true sign of ignorance. personally i'd rather shoot myself then live my life believing in the stuff you talk about as fact.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have repeated the above as asked by zampano.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Islamic propagandists know a little about reality, but they are ignorant on how it all works.
  
  Should the propagandist remain ignorant?
  
  I don't think so.
  
  Well, that was fun.
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  canadawest99posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you think its your job to spread the word about god? Why can''t he do it himself. Everyone knows the message is better delivered directly from the source. He could beam a signal into everyone's head in a flash to believe in him and worship him, then problem solved, but instead he lets petty conflicts, misinterpretation, fear and petty human ego get in the way of his so called message. This could be the most in efficient "creator' ever.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Creator-God created this Universe in a system; he likes to do the things in a system so that we don't remain ignorant and inculcate a system in our life; that is the way we could best understand the things.
  
  He has taught us language/s and writing so that our knowledge increases. He sends prophets and messengers so that we know of Him from them; He authors Word for our guidance and reveals it on them. He created angels to exhort us on virtue. He gave us a free will so that we could chose freely right from the wrong. He will judge us in the hereafter.
  
  I think He is already doing the things himself. Is it not correct?
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  nightwork4posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  wow. you actually know what your god thinks. you must be really special bud. seriously though. do you ever re-read what you write and think "what was i babbling about". of all the people on this site, you are by far the most incorrect but opinionated person i have seen so far.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think I have the answer to this one. Yes. You should keep truth a secret. Stop talking about it and definitely stop posting about it. Leave them in darkness about the whole Allah thing. It's what they deserve.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  What a great idea! I will be happy to have that kind of ignorance!
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  One of the attributes of the Creator-God is Al-Zahir meaning the Manifest :
  
  [57:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
  [57:2] Whatever is in the heavens and the earth glorifies Allah; and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
  [57:3] His is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; He gives life and He causes death; and He has power over all things.
  [57:4] He is the First and the Last, and the Manifest and the Hidden, and He knows all things full well.
  
  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … mp;verse=0
  
  So let Him be Manifest.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, why'd you ask the question, if you already had the answer you were looking for. Your OP should probably have been a statement. Somewhere along the lines of 'all atheists need to convert to Islam' might have been better. Don't you think?
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @Paar. You can't even write a grammatical sentence. Who, exactly, is ignorant?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I never claimed to be a grammarian; please correct the grammar. English is not my mother tongue, sorry.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, then, let me suggest you\ aren't educated either. Most atheists are a hundred times more educated about religion than religious people. That's why they're atheists..
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Even though many atheists (including myself) have pointed this out to parsurrey, he will continue to choose to ignore it and wallow in his ignorance since it makes him feel better about his own beliefs.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I KNow. I wrote quite a few articles about it...
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think there are believers who are much more intelligent than non-believers; exception are there.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, then you are seriously deluded because according to the research, examination results, school results, degrees, etc., those people that score the highest and get the highest form of education are more likely to be atheists and/or agnostics than religious people.
  
  I understand your need to believe that you are special and superior because you are a Christian. It's extremely annoying that the opposite is true. I also understand your refusal to believe what you want to believe. However, while I will always respect your right to say and believe anything you like, nothing in religious dogma will ever make me respect anything you say.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The only responses I have seen from the OP of all these threads is the unwillingness to see the same problems with his own tome that he finds in the bible. Very selective.
  This mind is a closed door.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would have called it a brick wall reinforced with galvanised steel and coated with kevlar but closed door is ok I guess.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep! I am a master of understatement.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!
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  Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You assume far too much.
  Most atheists, including the ones at HP, know scripture, or "the word of God" very well, and thus by evidence of the "word", point out its confusion, conflicting statements, teachings, etc., and are convinced the "word" was created by man, not by any God.
  
  Ignorance is a sad thing. But it is prevalent in humanity regardless of beliefs or no beliefs. It is not a condition associated with just atheists, but in all cross sections of humanity. Sad you don't see that.
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  Titen-Sxullposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  First off let me just say that obvious troll is obvious. Secondly as an atheist I am not ignorant of the Bible, what you call the "word of God", in fact I've read the entire thing, it was one of the primary factors that led to me leaving Christianity years ago.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I never said that Bible is authored by the Creator-God. Jesus did receive word of revelation but the Christians could not preserve it. It is for this that Word of the Creator-God was again revealed on Muhammad.
  
  Have you read Quran? If you read it intently you will again come into the fold of religion; I am pretty sure, if you follow reason.
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  Titen-Sxullposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've read parts of it. Enough to know that its no more impressive than the Bible... and the Bible is not at all impressive.
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was an atheist and gained enlightenment. There are many believers who dont understand god properly as they too lack knowledge.
  
  The super soul or god -Allah ,Brahma or Jevovah etc comprises of every soul, so it yearns for each soul to return home, the only person stopping you is yourself.
  Knowledge is for all.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's funny, I was a christian then gained enlightenment.
  I found religionists tell lies about what they believe and lack knowledge of life.
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Please read what the word enlightenment means in a spiritual aspect.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Gimme a break Mohit, you are not talking to a ten year old child.
  
  Lift your game, English is my native language, don't tell me I don't know the meaning of words, it's infantile to do so.
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well so stop writing like this, I was Christian gained enlightenment and so became an atheist, is this not a child like statement.
  
  I just shows you have no idea what enlightenment means.
  
  One who has become aware of the light , the spirit, spiritually aware, awakened to the spiritual world is someone who is enlightened.
  Which you are not so you are not enlightened.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your opinion of my enlightenment remains unenlightened.
  I have been where you are and grew out of being thus "enlightened"
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have no idea what enlightenment is and you just keep proving it wit your writing.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you keep insisting that I accept your stupid insults.
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What insults ?
  
  Its seriously ridiculous to not know what spiritual enlightenment means and debate for years on a religious forum.
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enlightenment
  
  Buddhism the awakening to ultimate truth by which man is freed from the endless cycle of personal reincarnations to which all men are otherwise subject
  
  Hinduism a state of transcendent divine experience represented by Vishnu: regarded as a goal of all religion
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well I don't have any religious goals, so I don't give a rats pa tootsie.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you were to look up a Real Dictionary of ENGLISH you would work out the word means what I originally said.
  
  "The process of explaining or understanding something clearly."
  
  So by definition I can conclude that it should be possible to become Enlightened on any subject whatsoever, so I assume that would include religion.
  
  There cannot be any sub claim to the meaning of the word as being exclusively religious in origin.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "The process of explaining or understanding something clearly." is also enlightenment.
  
  When a human beings gets Word of Revelation from the Creator-God; he gets enlightened truely.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Making up new religious meaning and applications for the word doesn't cut the ice Parra.
  
  The only religious application is in Hindu and Buddhist beliefs and refers to the beatitude that transcends the cycle of reincarnation: characterized by the extinction of desire and suffering as well as individual consciousness.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Geesh Man !
  
  Isn't that what I just said....? All you did was to put the definition first then the word.
  
  Then we got the Advert for God AGAIN !
  
  God did not Enlighten Man... Man Enlightened Man, the fact that some men chose to Enlighten others in the name of their God or about their God does not by any definition give the word any special Religious meaning nor can you claim it does.
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Merlin - enlightenment is the same as samadhi or satori, a state of union and oneness with god. In light.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Samadhi and Satori ? Two great looking English words.
  
  Sorry son... you've lost me, If you cannot or more to the point will not accept the actual difinition of an English word from the Oxford English Dictionary then I am not the one who can help you find Enlightenment in any language.
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They mean the same as enlightenment. revelation of the Light.
  Now any revelation is also termed enlightenment but its mundane compared to spiritual enlightenment.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever !
  
  I assume you will keep going round in this inane circle until you disappear up your own backside where even the light of education cannot shine !
  
  Forgive me if I don’t join you on your journey I get dizzy far too easily and hate dark ignorant places.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Merlin. Drink some coffee. Rub those sleepies out of your eyes. That's a grumpy reply. You're having a difference of opinion. No one has any facts on the question, so why not smile and agree to disagree amicably?
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  Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi j_c,
  
  You're quite wrong, we are not having a difference of opinion it is a difference of definition and what better definition of an English word than the Oxford English dictionary ?
  
  Read my previous answers...and his for that matter and then you may understand why I will no longer banter words with this guy, it is a waste of time.
  
  Plus I'm far from grumpy this morning, it is a public holiday weekend celebrating one of the most Pagan of festivals the celebration of the Ester, Goddess of Fertility.... No idea what the Christians are up to but they seem to be having fun too....
  
  The weather is glorious, and I have a convertible so this afternoon I will venture forth with the top down and drive through our fantastic countryside full of fresh Spring colours and wonder at the marvels of mother nature.
  
  What’s to be grumpy about... ?
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, for one thing. I would think grumpy about easter is short sighted. There's easter egg hunts and great sales on ham. So, we should have reason to celebrate that. I like holiday weekends. I don't have to agree with their source. I like convertibles too. Used to have a jeep and the top came off at the first of April and stayed off until the end of October. It wasn't always so much fun in the rain, or when I passed road kill, but the bikini top addressed half of that; other than that, it was glorious.
  
  But, my point of posting to you was not that I don't see logic in your reasoning. It is simply that there are many aspects to spirituality. Fascinating aspects. To dismiss them all, completely out of hand, is also short sighted. Sometimes it is difficult to verbalize things unseen and unproven by our collective senses. Simply because the speaker is not approaching you from an angle that you understand, does not make their thoughts nonsensical. It simply means there has been a failure to communicate. It happens quite often.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The only point I was trying to make earlier on was merely upon the true definition of the single word,
  
  Enlightenment: [Noun] "The process of explaining or understanding something clearly."
  
  I concluded from that it is therefore possible to become Enlightened on any subject including religion if the seeker of knowledge so wishes.
  
  What I could not see, and still can't,BTW, is how someone else could possibly define the word as referring only to religious or spiritual enlightenment.
  
  In that specific regard, and only on that point, they are wrong and I and the Oxford English Dictionary are right !
  
  End of discussion, the sun's shining.... the Pub's are open and off for a Ploughman's Lunch and a cold one (or two) !
  
  Maybe you can explain it to him I give up !
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Enjoy the ride.
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  mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why the abuse Merlin Fraser.
  I am saying it can be used in general but it also has a spiritual meaning, enlightenment is being one with the Light or god.
  This is the original meaning-in light.Now days enlightened is used in a very mundane manner.
  This is what religions and spirituality as based upon, man having this experience.This is a religious forum so enlightenment here will be spiritual and not mundane.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not abuse at all but a critical comment based upon your continued, and largely incorrect, assumption that true enlightenment can only come from within a spiritual or religious context.
  
  True enlightenment comes from striving for greater knowledge and challenging all that went before. As I have also said before such enlightenment can cover many subjects including spiritual and religious although I notice you chose to ignore that part of my comment.
  
  There is nothing mundane about seeking truth and wisdom what is mundane is sticking to an outdated and out moded religious rhetoric and claiming it as enlightenment.
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  mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I assume you will keep going round in this inane circle until you disappear up your own backside where even the light of education cannot shine !
  
  You call this critical judgement, I can abuse you as well.You abuse me again and I will abuse you back.
  
  I didnt chose to ignore I said thats a mundane way of saying enlightenment while enlightenment means one who has been in the Light, meaning a spiritual union with god same as samadhi or satori.
  
  We are on a religious forum and knowledge here means god knowledge, knowledge of the spirit. Enlightenment is the experience , pinnacle of knowledge .Man then understand his source, death and god something science still has no idea about.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's not what it says about enlightenment; that's what it says about "prajna" - a sanskrit word which is used mainly in buddhism and I'd say is more generally used for "wisdom".
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  mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Buddha was an enlightened one or awakened one someone who had entered into a state of samadhi union with god.Buddhism is based on his enlightenment and the goal of a Buddhist is to achieve enlightenment which equates to wisdom.To become a Buddha.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Better check the posts, you are dealing with two different people's answers.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Enlightenment (Noun)
  
  The process of explaining or understanding something clearly.
  
  I was unaware that the word had any special or specific spiritual significance, well not in English anyway !
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Its root is in spirituality, similar to the concept of samadhi by the Hindus.
  
  Have you never heard of spiritual enlightenment, for heavens sake we are in a religion and philosophy forum.
  Have you never heard of Jesus or the Buddha or Mahavira as enlightened ones.?
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  Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can only assume these people became enlightened because someone smarter than them sat them down in a corner and explained something to them until they understood whatever that person was talking about.
  
  Sorry, but the word has no other definition, therefore by now you should be enlightened because I have explained it to you.
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  Calashposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The only thing that makes me atheist is that I don't acknowledge God(s) in the same way that most religions don't acknowledge Gods of other religions.
  
  That being said, I used to be as angry of an atheist as Mr. Merlin up here, but after a lot of self reflection and reading I realized a few things.
  
  First, I don't believe that my consciousness will continue after death; I think it will be like before I was born.
  
  Second, there is something more to reality than can be simply understood through human comprehension; you only need to look at quantum theory to realize this. For example, the dual slit experiment shows that observation alone has an effect on the outcome of anything. Merely by being consciously aware of matter, that matter behaves differently.
  
  Third, we are all connected energetically if nothing else. Reality is a construct of our minds, and so is physical space. If you look under a microscope you'll find that nothing is smooth and perfect, there are always holes, cracks, crevices, etc... and at some point when you get down small enough past particles and atoms, you'll realize that all matter is just energy that vibrates at a certain frequency. All of that energy is something and came from somewhere (Law of conservation of mass) and I'm not saying it was Yaweh, Jesus, or any other God...all I'm saying is you will never be able to prove to anyone else what is real for you if a different truth is real for them.
  
  This takes us back to a philosophical question that I really like; How do I know that my blue is the same as your blue? My red your red? Maybe in some reality (as there are many more dimensions than we can experience) God is more easily experienced because people are willing to accept a lot of the ridiculous claims made by religious texts and supporters. The problem occurs ALWAYS when humans step in...
  
  There is only reality and it exists in only one moment. Humans are not separate from nature, and that is what most religious people can't understand when atheists say they don't believe in God. God is nature, it is the connection between us all...it isn't (in my opinion) some deity that exists outside of human experience, it is what makes up the entirety OF HUMAN EXPERIENCE. So...yeah, you're God. I'm God.
  
  Let me just leave you with this...it doesn't matter who believes in what God as long as they are not lying, stealing, hurting, or killing anyone because of it.
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  mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your assumptions are wrong.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Of course they are !
  
  Thank you for pointing out that my entire academic achievements are as nothing when compared to yours. It seems I cannot even read nor understand my own language nor interpret the meaning of words from a highly respected book of reference.
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  mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I can only assume these people became enlightened because someone smarter than them sat them down in a corner and explained something to them until they understood whatever that person was talking about.
  
  TOTAL CRAP
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  mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Read some spiritual books and ask me question when you dont understand will guide you.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Funny !
  
  I was going to suggest you do the same, only it was to read something, anything, preferably written after the second and third century. I think you will be amazed at how Enlightened mankind has become.
  
  As for me I have little need for your spiritual guidance, I know where God came from, who invented him and quite possibly when.
  
  For you see my spiritual beliefs pre date any and all religions; I actually went in search of enlightenment and found it in the thousands and thousands of years of the history of mankind.
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  mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But you still have no idea what spiritual enlightenment is , so you found nothing, now this is funny someone who claims to have searched for enlightenment for so long doesn't even know the meaning of an enlightened one
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  By your limited standards; No I don't but I beg you consider that in a far broader context that it may be possible that I may be more enlightened than you.
  
  By standing on your shoulders I can see further than you, by thinking beyond the point where you stop I hear more than you and by embracing the true origins of life I feel and sense more than you because I allow my mind to take me on journeys beyond your comprehension.
  
  There are many paths to enlightenment, you chose but one and are content, whereas when I reach a crossroads my mind wants to see in every direction.
  
  Still think my definition of Enlightment is mundane ? Let us see who will reach a higher plain of existence first !
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  mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is nothing like more enlightened or less enlightened.You just keep reiterating the fact that you have no idea what spiritual enlightenment means.
  
  I have already gained enlightenment ,please check my profile and you will see my qualifications.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have and you haven't.
  
  For information I always check out who I am dealing with, it's good business practice although I doubt you have done the same.
  
  Your parameters are far too narrow for this discussion to continue.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Many others have arrived at the same conclusions.
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  mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  hahha sorry but I believe in the spiritual dimension and god which makes my
  parameters broader than yours.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No offense, but I couldn't help but see how childish this post sounds.
  
  I guess enlightenment is not for me.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm a little depressed to hear that, why?!
  
  Also are you a Christian?! I'd have thought you'd be Hindu with a nice Brahmin name like that!
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  mohitmisraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What has enlightenment got to do with being a Christian, Hindu or Muslim- nothing.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you were religious - I'd therefore say that it has quite a lot. What you're basically saying is that you have subjective enlightenment, I'd like to know subjective to what.
  
  I think it's a fair question - I wouldn't want to base my opinion of what you believe just because you have a name I'd associate with being Hindu in origin. And without telling anybody your beliefs it is difficult for me to have an opinion at all!
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  mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do have enormous respect for all the prophets.
  Subjective enlightenment?????
  
  I believe in God the Light.This is called by different names like Allah, Jevovah , Brahma etc the only difference is the language ,the entity is the same.
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  aslanlightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps they choose to remain ignorant of YOUR WAY of seeing things because of your ignorant attitude about them?
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  Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have to forgive him his rants, most of us around here only wind him up just to watch him whizz around bouncing off the walls.
  
  It used to be fun now sadly it's just a waste of time...
  
  As someone who has ancient Pagan beliefs that pre-date all religions I love to come here and watch the Creationists trying so desperately to justify their beliefs. I sometimes wonder who it is they are trying to convince, not me that's for sure. For some reason it seems to annoy them when I tell them I know who invented their God... and when !
  
  I assume religious intolerance is a form of enforced ignorance, something that happens when you only have teachers who speak with one voice. Thankfully I was taught to have an open mind, listen to all sides and make up my own mind, a concept that many on this site can neither accept nor understand.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For instance.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How long have you got ?
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  Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Some will and some won't,according to the increase.Everyone will not make it into the kingdom of Heaven.But there shall be some taken from every race and gender.But they all will not come.It is the way it was Predestine to be.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Since there is no compulsion to make into the Kindom of Heaven; so there will be some who would fail to make it; then they can only blame thesmelves and none else.
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  Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No one will believe in anything that everyone say in this world.We have to pick and poke to find what is there in this existence for each one of us.Those that agree will be one,and those of other beliefs will be one in their form of presentation.And so....it is what it is.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is no compulsion in religion; so difference would remain very naturally unless one is convinced heart and sould; and to convince or get convinced is my intention.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You cant convince people who think logically. Show them facts. Thats the only way to convice them. The only people you will convince are probably just as likely to be convinced by any other religion, witchcraft, ghosts, bigfoot or some other nonsense.
  
  Is it really an accomplishment to convince people like that? Do you want heaven to be full of people like that?
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Will you please tell me the chronological order of the following?
  
  Logic, science, atheism
  
  Which of them surfaced first, second and third?
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The question is ambiguous. To address the forum: If a sighted person is nonetheless blind, and also has functional ears with which to hear, yet in deafness they exist, what is that for me to question. If they are to hear, then they will hear, and if it is that they are to see, then, they will see. Not by my determination, but by their own, and the will of the creator.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Logic ,philosphy, mathematics science are joint production of humanity; nothing special with the atheists
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Atheism was obviously first, then I would guess at logic and then science.
  
  Why do you ask?
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  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It would be silly not to want to go to the Kingdom of Heaven, knowing full well we'll spend an eternity with you?
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superwagsposted 13 years ago
I tend to think that these never ending posts from Paar probably do more to damage the reputation of believers than promote it. It's just dull, turgid and the same old arguments.

Change the record mate!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
I love the title.
Reminds me of another.

"Are you still beating your wife?"
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Thatguypkposted 13 years ago
I find it as offensive to be called ignorant because I am an atheist, as others might find it offensive to be called a terrorist because one is a Muslim.
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  atheism does not equal ignorance
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes;atheism and ignorance are different words.
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knolyourselfposted 13 years ago
"I find it as offensive" These people not big on manners: the first rule of which is the consideration of others.
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Sarah Connorposted 13 years ago
Love conquers ignorance :-)
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  : D
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not true.
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hahaha we may hold different beliefs but i respect your right to yours
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Love doesn't conquer ignorance, simply because it is against human nature to love someone who chooses to remain ignorant.
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is mans higher nature to love his enemies. In some form or another most religious teachings tell us to forgive our enemies and show them kindness
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And, that's why man has killed every enemy ever encountered? Nice way of showing love.
  
  I love you so much I have to kill you.
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well men can be rather foolish. A lot of times when people show up and say "hey lets all get along". they get killed.
  
  Gandhi, Christ, MLK JR, Malcolm X, etc. etc.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now, for the $20,000 question- Do you know why?
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  Jefacityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  well to me it's just a shame. human ignorance is a strong, strong thing. To kill the men that help us the most. I call it the growing pains of humanity.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I do; they were all massives pains in the arse. I mean, they were great drivers of peace and equality, but god they didn't half go on.
  
  No seriously, people tend to shoot people who's views they don't like. Particularly in the US.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Calashposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would argue that if people actually followed the teachings of Jesus that there would if nothing else be much more peace in the world. And I'm talking here about unconditional love for your fellow man (and planet and animals) not dwelling in wealth, and just being a good all around dude. The problem, as always, is when the human ego steps in and decides that it must be right at all costs and must prove everyone else wrong based on evidence from his/her reality that is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH! Religious folk call it divine word, empiricists call it physical evidence. Either way, both sides are trying to prove their point redundantly because the point of life isn't to prove which God is the right one...in fact there is no point to life. Just live it! It's a musical thing really! Dance, sing, play music, just have fun and treat people how you'd want them to treat you! Yeah, I'm an idealist but I guess I'm just enlightened I have moved on past the point of bickering just to prove a point and instead am enjoying my own life full of the truths I spent so much time looking for that were right in front of me all along.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The atheists don't perhaps love their friends even; how could they love their enemies?They don't have a role model to follow
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  dingdondingdonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My role model is my mother (also atheist), who sacrificed so much of her time to raise me and teach me how to live life. And my father (atheist), who worked hard so that we could live in a good house and I could go to a good school. And one of my teachers (atheist), who always made time to explain something to me if I found it difficult or confusing.
  
  I don't need a deity to be my role model. I am not so jaded with humans that I believe we cannot be inspired by each other to do good.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey paar. I'll admit the only person I've met that claimed to be an atheist was a bit of a twit. And there is some circumstantial evidence here that atheism does tend to be confrontational in nature. But that's quite a broad generalization you are making there. I'm sure there are a lot of atheists out there who are very nice people with lots of friends who consider them kind and loving. Somewhere. I'm sure you'd have to look really hard. For a very long time. But I have no doubt they exist.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have observed here that the atheists instead of proving their stance from science which they eulogize so much and so often; they find it easier to hide behind ridicule and derision. I think they are confrontational by their second nature; exceptions could be there though.
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  dingdondingdonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We often talk about science here on the Hubpages forum. Have you not noticed?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't mind; believing science is one of important aspect of Religion.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I always try to think it might not really be ridicule and derision. Maybe it's just their quirky sense of humor. There's a lot of things people with different philosophies do here that I have trouble understanding why they do and say the things they do.
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  Calashposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The problem here is stereotyping. Because someone is an atheist really tells you little about them. It tells you how they feel about God. It doesn't tell you about their morals, their feelings, their personality, etc...I consider myself an Atheist, and yet here I am defending the religious side of things more...
  
  There is definitely a reason those stereotypes exist, because there are a large number of Atheists who are more or less just pissed off at how much Religion gets away with. For example:
  
  If a big business had molested kids instead of the catholic church, there would have been a federal investigation and they would have been shut down no questions asked.
  
  Most wars are fueled by religion.
  
  Religion is the biggest monetary scam in existence.
  
  There is one key element here that I think people don't get. Nobody owns your soul (consciousness, ego, mind, whatever you decide to call it) except for you. No God does. No other person does. You are your own God and you don't need an organized religion to tell you how to meet and understand that God...just look in a mirror
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They aren't kidding? They're serious? About all of it? Are they insane?
  
  Just kidding. Actually, my comment was somewhat in jest. I think I'm beginning to get a handle on what everyone is mad about. I might have gotten the point a little sooner had they not felt the need for what, at times, appears to be ridicule and derision.
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  Thatguypkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Forgive me for the suggestion, paarsurrey, but you do seem to talk a load of unsubstantiated drivel.
  This atheist does not turn to science to support his claims. I am an atheist based upon study of the Bible... and indeed the Koran... and a logical disbelief in the credibility of either book.
  I believe there is as little chance of science ever explaining where we come from and where we are going to, as does religion. I therefore accept the 'mystery' of our existence, and try to live my life in a manner that is respectful to others.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There you are right; the Creator-God is All-Merciful and loving. He has sent messengers prophets to guide us in our lives; it is his mercy an love; else we would have been ignorant.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
A similar question for you parra.

Should the murdering muslims remain ignorant?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Murdering Muslims don't follow the peaceful teachings of Quran/Islam/Muhammad; they are being taken care of by their adversaries.
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jomineposted 13 years ago
According to paar, there is only one person who is truly religious, who truly understand god,
any guess?
That is
paarsurrey.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  I never claimed that; I am a humble person in search of Truth.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What else was you claiming with all these posts, that showed nothing else, but ignorance?
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I tell you the truth all the time, but you don't listen.
  
  Not what I call humble.
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clark farleyposted 13 years ago
yes, god willing they should...
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Should the Atheists remain ignorant?

No they should join Islam and see if they can improve on killing 270 million people over it's history.
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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
Should the Atheists remain ignorant?

There is no harm if they improve their knowledge.
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  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But, there is great harm if Islamic propagandists do not improve their knowledge.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why on earth would they do that ?
  
  With a religious mindset stuck in neutral for over 1,500 years the rest of the world has move on and left them behind.
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  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I would agree. But, I often wonder if that's the right thing to do.
  
  My problem is that I can't go around making claims how religions divide mankind and then allow myself to just move on leaving others behind. I would just be creating another us and them type of mentality.
  
  Frankly though, I think there is no stopping it now. The internet is getting everywhere and so is the information contained, and it continues to grow exponentially. And, if information is knowledge, those folks stuck in a religious mindset are going to eventually get and begin to understand that information and begin to understand they would much rather move on with the rest of the world rather than being stuck in neutral.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
The internet is getting everywhere and so is the information contained, and it continues to grow . And, if information is knowledge and sure it is, those folks stuck in an atheist agnostic apatheist skeptic mindset are going to eventually get and begin to understand that information and begin to understand they would much rather move on with the rest of the human world rather than being stuck and remain ignorant.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not ALL written material is information. Therefore, NOT all written material on the Internet is knowledge.
  
  You cannot even distinguish between what is real or false. Which isn't a surprise that you cannot distinguish between what is information(relevant/irrelevant) and what is knowledge.
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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
Please elaborate for us; I don't have any claim to sholarship or piety. Please
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you have a need for an elaboration, then I suggest you talk to a teacher.
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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
The atheists agnostics apatheists skeptics may be good teachers if they stick to reason; but most of the time they resort to riducle and derision; that may hamper their faculties to mature.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Those who practice religion only learn "do as I say, not as I do". Therefore, all of them are hypocrites.
  reply report
  53
  SEEKER OF TRUTH57posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Go back to where you started running from me Cags. Man up , if that`s what you are.
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Run from you? Truly, you're blissful, if you know what I mean.
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  81
  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nice to see some humor on the religious forums.
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Earnest, what's up?
  
  The oblivious continue to love to play games with words and the ignorance is just their blind inability to see beyond themselves. Isn't it just fun, when they love to show their petty side.
  reply report
  81
  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not much mate, enjoying my retirement, getting lots of time with the GK's showing someone how to rebuild an automatic transmission, having fun on the forums and trying to protect the world from beliefs in fairies and such, how about you?
  reply report
  71
  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Glad to hear you're enjoying your retirement and GKs.
  
  As for protecting the world from mystical beliefs? Naw....too many people like to choose ignorance over actually learning something.
  
  Edit: I'm doing well. Thank you for asking.
  reply report
  81
  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You may get a giggle on this site. It has a few very funny facts. http://haveagoodlaugh.com.tripod.com/ha … /id23.html
  
  I liked this one:
  
  To "testify" was based on men in the Roman court swearing to a statement made by swearing on their testicles.
  reply report
  50
  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is good if the atheists learn something and add something to their knowlede; no harm.
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  71
  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The same could be said for YOU Paar. I mean, it's apparent you lack more than Atheist do. Too bad you won't admit it.
  reply report
50
paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
People of Doubt- the Atheists know a little of the Work of the Creator-God and they are ignorant of the Word of God, altogether.

Should the Atheists remain ignorant?

I don’t think so; they need to improve their lot. Knowledge does not harm anybody; the why should they remain ignorant.
reply report
1. 59
  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In other words, YOU are deciding what is good for atheists?
  
  Are you god?
  reply report
  81
  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, he just plays god.
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50
paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
The Atheists' knowledge of the Truthful Word revealed is little.
reply report

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Should the Atheists remain ignorant?

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