Did Christianity Eat the Baby?

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   just_curiousposted 12 years ago

   I’ve seen Christianity blamed for everything on this forum from current events, to ships that sunk over 100 years before Jesus was even born.  What is up with this?
   
   Does anyone really believe that every evil that has ever happened, up until now, can be laid at the feet of one religion?
   
   Or is there an unstated reason for this continuing argument that I am not getting?
   
   Because, quite frankly; this refusal to consider other factors for low points in our collective history appears somewhat childish and shows a complete lack of the desire to use reason.
   
   I have no use for religion.  I do see it as a continuing roadblock in the world’s ability to find peace; yet if the argument that all the evils in the world are due to Christianity is one in support of moving away from religion; it is a shallow argument, at best. It’s been done to death.  It needs to be put to rest as much as religion.
   
   If it is an argument in support of atheism, then I would suggest if one wanted to be called one of the ‘brights’ one would need to post a brighter argument.

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      Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Not really, other religions have also played a major part in mankinds downfall and the problems of the world these past many centuries.

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         just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I realize that. We all do. That's the point. It's like saying existence exists. Of course it does, but that's simplistic. To stop at that is pointless. It isn't really an answer.

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         Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Name the other religions and state how they have contributed. Name all of the humanitarian outreach programs of ANY kind that are based on an atheistic philosophy. Godlessness has led to just as much bloodshed, and who says mankind has fallen? Aren't you burying the body before it is fully dead?

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            Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            The exploitations of Judaism and Islam have contributed to the mass murders and genocides committed as a result of those beliefs.
            
            
            
            That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Humanitarian programs are for humanitarian reasons, not reasons for belief or disbelief in gods.
            
            However, if such a humanitarian program were initiated to foster belief or disbelief in gods, then there is ulterior motives at work that are beyond humanitarian.
            
            
            
            Are you saying we should wait for the body to be fully dead?

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               Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               So...the Holocaust was the fault of the Jews? And the Crusades was all Islam's fault. I get it. You're a revisionist, painting everything to your own liking. Boy, are you screwy.

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                  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I just love it when people put words in my mouth and then call me screwy. Are we having fun yet?

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                     Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, it's either that, or you are saying it is all christians. Screwy

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                  kephriraposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Actually the crusades where Islams fault. Islam was rapidly spreading through military conquest and was threatening Europe. There were no armies in Europe capable of stopping the Muslim armies and no rulers with enough money to raise one. The only way to stop them was therefore to get ordinary people to fight for free. The pope, wanting to save Christendom, did this by offering spiritual payment to anyone who joined the crusades - the forgiveness of absolutely any sin ever commited no matter how bad, and no matter whether you were sorry. Join the crusades and you go to heaven - that was the only thing that stopped the Islamic armies from sweeping across the whole of Europe.

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               paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               The atheistic communits in Russia killed 100 million people if not more.
               
               Islam is a peaceful religion, it spread peacefully and promotes peace.

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                  just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Paar, I was attempting to open a dialogue about facts. Please find a fiction thread for this nonsense. Thanks.

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                  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  The Islamic propagandist will blurt out anything and fabricate any lie to promote Islam. There is no level of treachery they will not stoop. 

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         paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Tiny atheistic minority has also its share in it; they play innocent though

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            earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Now atheism is a tiny minority?
            When did you decide to change from your view that they are a majority?
            
            
            And when are you EVER going to address any of the dozens of lies you have been caught out on?
            
            270 million murders in the name of Islam ............... and counting.

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               paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I think it is you who told it; didn't you? and I accepted it.

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                  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  No, it was not me. I have never claimed that non belief was anything but a small minority. The stats are out there and have been for years,

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   dingdondingdonposted 12 years ago

   Christianity is certainly not responsible for every evil. However, people have used it to excuse so many. Wars, mass murders, the oppression of women (which still continues), the oppression of LGBT people (which still continues), the oppression of other religions (which still continues), the oppression of the non-religious (which still continues - did you know that in some states, like Arkansas and South Carolina and Texas, an atheist cannot run for public office?)
   
   I don't think it is unfair to point these things out. Christianity is happy to take responsibility for the many good things it has done; it also needs to take responsibility for the bad.

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      just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed. But that's not the point I was trying to make. You can't blame everything on them. By doing this, it appears short sighted, one sided, and doing little more than finger pointing.
      
      It leads to arguments, not discussions. You can't get someone to be reasonable if you, yourself, appear to lack the ability to reason. Repeated use of this argument for every ill perceived smacks more of prejudice than logic.
      
      It just seems to me if anyone had an agenda other than badgering, they would lay this argument to rest in cases where it is  cannot be proven and is merely the product of  speculation.

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         recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It is very simple - christianity suppressed knowledge and advance of humanity for 1000 to 1500 years.  This is not any preconception it is a well known historical fact.
         
         What is hard about that ?

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            just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I realize you probably see this as an extension of the conversation we were having, but it's quite a bit more than that. 
            
            I wouldn't find it hard to think Christianity was responsible for all the ills; except for the fact that I believe war and history have a lot to do with politics, economics, how various cultures got along prior to the introduciton of christianity, climate changes that effected food production, the effect of plague on population sizes and the strength of nations to protect their borders and a host of other factors.
            
            And I'm not an historian. I'm bright enough to know that there is probably plenty more than that.
            
            In order to assume Chrisitianity had supernatural powers to ensure it was the primary factor that controlled everything listed, I would have to believe in their God.  Which I don't, so it's a bit of a mystery.
            
            And, I take into account the individual.  The masses chose, in most instances, to follow.  They chose to see the torture and burnings as entertainment.  They chose to allow the crusades to happen.  They chose to participate.  Was that religion?  Or some other thing within the human psyche.  That's important to me to understand.
            
            If we get rid of religion will we rid ourselves of this need for violence?  If we kill God off, will this world be that much closer to being utopian?  I don't see it.
            
            Christianity was allowed to do what it did, because that is the nature of man.  Organized religion is simply the unbridled lust for power. And I'm surprised an atheist can't see that.  If there is no god, who does the atheist. blame? An atheist rails against religion; completely ignoring the fact that it would serve more purpose to look in the mirror and wonder how history happened and how to change the world so that it won't happen again.

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            paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   Key words that were picked out of the posts thus far.
   
      WARS, MASS MURDERS, OPRESSION, SUPRESSION, EXPLOITATION.
   
      Does anyone realy believe these things could ever just go away.
   
      Picture these words and everything that they stand for as being a pieve of heavy equiptment such as a Bull Dozer.
   
      Some Folks in these here forums say that religion is driving this Bull Dozer.
   
      If we were to shoot the driver. Some one or something else is still going to get back in the drivers seat and continue on continueing on.
   
   
       I'm not saying religion is driving the Dozer! 
   Just saying.  These things ... WARS, MASS MURDERS, OPRESSION, SUPRESSION, EXPLOITATION.  will continue to be as long as Mankind continues to be.

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   earnestshubposted 12 years ago

   To get back to the OP's question, I believe Christians are not responsible for all the worlds ills, and some of them simply believe in the "good works" which I for one am thankful for as I see local churches that do a heap of good.
   
   The belief if held as "truth" is certainly responsible for it's share of wars and the megalomania of "I am saved and your not" does nothing to support the world view.
   
   People are people, we are all both good and bad within ourselves.
   
   Denying our faults or passing the responsibility for them on to (insert pet god here) changes nothing in our lives.

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   paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

   The blame game started by atheists hurts them:
   
   In the name of creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass slaughter that no Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.
   
   http://olddogg.com/religion/atheism-not … history-1/
   
   More killings could be added to the figure of 100 million; just some clicks away on google.
   
   Islam is a peaceful religion, promotes peace; and allows everybody to co-exist peacefully.

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      Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      And, with just a few more clicks away on google, we can find ample information showing that Islam is not a peaceful religion, nor does it promote peace or allows people to co-exist peacefully.
      
      Your posts here alone are worth gold in that observation.

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         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Paar does make a very good point on the numbers of people atheism has killed. The Church has killed in the hundreds of thousands throughout the Dark Ages and medieval periods, but not the millions of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, and various despotic rulers in Latin America and Africa.
         
         However, Islam is only a peaceful and tolerant religion if one submits to it. One only has to look at the religious nut jobs of Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan to see their brand of tolerant Islam in action. True fundamentalist American evangelistic Neo Conservative Christianity is not tolerant of other beliefs, but atheists and Moslems are not likely to be stoned, beheaded, or tourtured by the Church these days are they? Perhaps one day Islam will grow up.

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      kephriraposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Personally I would class both facism and communism as pseudo-religions. Any kind of absolutist ideaology is dangerous.

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