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The Second Coming ?

  1. Dave Mathews profile image61
    Dave Mathewsposted 6 years ago

    As Christians: Those of us that are Christian, We are all aware of the first coming of Jesus as a baby. There is nothing to dispute about this. We are also aware of His crucifixion and resurrection. Here come the mirky part for me.

    Mary Magdelene goes to Jesus tomb and discovers it empty. She sees a man who she thinks is the gardener and asks where Jesus is so that she can properly prepare the body for the grave. The man turns out to be Jesus and when Mary reaches out to touch him, he tells her not to touch him for he has not yet ascended to heaven and to God, therefore to touch him would be to make him unclean.

    We then read about the appearance of Jesus in the upper room where he invites Thomas to touch him as proof that he is indeed Jesus risen from the dead, and after touching him, Thomas declares Jesus as the son of God.

    To my way of thinking, Mary could not touch him because he had not yet ascended to heaven, later Thomas is invited to touch him meaning that He had finally ascended and returned to earth again. Is this not then Jesus second coming?  Are we not then awaiting Jesus third return at the "Rapture"  which means there will also be a fourth return after the seven years tribulation to dispose of the devil and his followers.

    1. Greek One profile image78
      Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      nope.. second coming didn't happen yet

      Not sure where the rapture is mentioned in the Bible, but the way

    2. kess profile image59
      kessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      There is a second coming which the carnally minded will look for and receive.. this is the coming of Jesus christ the man, and when he comes he announces himself with all sort of miracles to satisfy their carnal mind. Nevertheless they will not believe him because He is the son of Perdition.


      And there is a second coming to the Spiritually Minded.. this is the Coming of The Christ ...Spirit of Truth. He is already in the earth and working in men transforming them from death unto Life.

      And by His work within these men they are able to Transform their physical body into that which is Spiritual so they will never die!

    3. Apostle Jack profile image59
      Apostle Jackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Rapture is a made-up title that is not found in the bible.
      The scriptures given refer to JUDGMENT DAY,and NOT a 7 YEAR TRIBULATION PERIOD.

    4. Lee Ann Bunch profile image69
      Lee Ann Bunchposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      all Jesus visitation unto the earth and unto man from the time He was born until He was caught up in a cloud is collectively the first visitation.   When He comes again, it will be the second coming, even though those  words are not in the bible, they are a depiction of biblical truth in that God has given us the very specific timing of His return.  1cor 15:51and verse 52 tell us exactly when the Lord's return is.  the Lord told us through Paul - "behold I show you a mystery, we shall not all die but we shall all be caught up in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet".  Either you are able to understand and grasp what God is saying to us about His timing or you have been deceived by the false doctrine of rapture, of the which the word "rapture" and the concept that it represents of a pre tribulation return of the Lord has been added to the Word contrary to John's warning in Rev: 22.   The Word tells us exactly when the Lord's return is- at the last trumpet.  Where is the last trumpet is the Word?  In Rev: 10:7  John said " in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel the mystery of God is finished."   When you read the context it is obvious that the seventh angel is sounding the seventh trumpet; the last trumpet that Paul bore witness to  If we say it is some other trumpet before that seventh trumpet in the book of revelation, then it is not really the last trumpet is it.  Either you believe what God said in his Word and understand it as revealed by the
      Spirit  or you don't.  Let us let God, his Word be true if every man is a liar period

  2. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    Dave,
    You pose a very interesting point.
    There is much surrounding the event post resurrection to the final ascension -a total of 40 days. That alone carries a lot of weight regarding prophecies.

    But, without speculating, there is no mention --according to my reading of the texts for years, regarding an event called Rapture. In fact, Johns letter of revealing states something quite the opposite. Something far more wonderful.

    To my understanding, S/Paul mentions something regarding being 'caught up with him in the air' and I believe this is what sparked the Rapture idea. He remarks often about a return, but no other source does --not the 12, not Immanu El Himself, nor any of the prophecies.

    In the Hebrew, the phrase "caught up; raised up; in the clouds" is identical to a description of Immanu El after his resurrection and also like Elijah --meaning to be glorified.

    Paul often spoke of this event: glorification.
    As did John, Peter and the man himself, the Firstborn of the New Covenant --firstborn of many brothers.

    Thomas` writing indicate, as Immanu El said, all who are born of spirit have passed from death to live --on the condition they live according to righteousness and not according to the old mentality of sin. Paul also says this, and truly I believe he was reaffirming this. If correct, Paul is explaining that at any moment when a person jumps into faith 100% and remains, they can be transformed ( glorified ). This follows perfectly with the entire purpose of the Work --to restore all humanity to grace & glory. To be as Adam was --if not better.

    I believe the message has been lost in religion and doctrine. And if one wants to call that the work of the devil (ha-satan; the human mind) then I nod in agreement. But, no where in the text does Immanu El say he is returning after the resurrection. He expressly says he completed the work and was returning so the Teacher would come. and that Teacher is the collective Spirit of Creator. From then on, it would be the Spirit who leads those who truly believe.

    James.

  3. Dave Mathews profile image61
    Dave Mathewsposted 6 years ago

    so when jesus returned after his resurrection and appears to Thomas why is that not the second coming?

    1. Greek One profile image78
      Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I personally do not believe that just being 'seen' fulfills the events prophecies of the second coming

    2. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Many believe it was. According to the text, it was, only it has been misread or misrepresented. His final ascent signified a "no coming back" scenario. Where he would then 'sit' at the fathers right hand. This is matched to the seventh reality of creation, rest. Completion, fulfillment. When one sits, they have finished their work. To add to this, he instructs them to wait until the Spirit comes, meaning again, he wasn't coming back...

      John says in his letter of revealing, that the 1st resurrection the so-called doom events occurred. He says it twice in the same paragraph.

      Just a thought...

      James.

      1. Disappearinghead profile image88
        Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        James,
        We do have this test in Matt 24:30-31
        “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

        This looks very much like some sort of second coming to me, although because it immediately follows the events describing the destruction of Israel between AD70 and AD135, then it suggests to me the second coming has been and gone.

        1. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Right, and this is the only passage that has me perplexed.

          I know that "coming in the clouds", "caught up" means glorified.

          My ultimate question regarding a return is why? Why would it be required --if at all. I am of the mind to agree he fulfilled both the law and the prophets --else the Testimony would be false. So, what purpose would a "present day" return be based on. It would not be based on righteous requirements of the Law, nor the fulfillment of Prophecy, since that occurred between the days before the cross and completed at "Pentecost".

          According to the New Covenant, it is the Spirit who will lead all men and reveal the mysteries to them, seed them with faith and ultimately be the power that transforms them into the same likeness as Immanu El, which will establish the glory (once more) here on earth. 

          James.

          1. Disappearinghead profile image88
            Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I agree with what you say here in principle. He anounced onthe cross "It is finished", so it was. There is no reason to return again to the Earth except by His Spirit to dwell in us.

            Yet the events of Matt 24 are clearly fulfilled by the end of Israel already, and if one reads His rant to the Pharisees in Matt 23 as a preamble, there can be no mistake that His return would have been back then.

            Perhaps the only option is that somewhere in the dim past a chunk of Matt's gospel went missing, and the Church patched it up. A furture return would satisfy his coming to gather the nations together such that the whole Earth is filled wit hthe knowledge of God as hoped for by Jews today.

            Let's face it, there has to be an end to the World as we know it at some point. Looking at the social/political/econmic/resource issues of the Earth, it cannot go on forever. There has to be some great crisis in the future, but perhpas not in our lifetimes. But a one Wolrd government under some anti-christ looks pretty absurd, as does a secret rapture and tribulation.

  4. Greek One profile image78
    Greek Oneposted 6 years ago

    With no compulsion smile, here is a perspective from my Church, if anyone is interested...

    http://saintanthonyreno.org/vsItemDispl … od=display

    1. Disappearinghead profile image88
      Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think that nicely sums up the case against the rapture. smile

      I'm still not sure about the 2nd coming though. Everything Yeshua said about it implied it was to be very very soon after His resurection, and Paul certainly appears to believe it was to happen in his lifetime.

      One for a hub perhaps.

      1. Greek One profile image78
        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

        Ours is not to guess when.. just live by His teachings.

        He will take care of the rest.

  5. Jesus-Saves profile image60
    Jesus-Savesposted 5 years ago

    The second coming is a very important topic in the Bible. In fact it is the hope of the Gospel. When Christ will come and take His people to heaven. Friends, the truth has not been lost, let me show you clearly for the Bible;
    "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many, and unto them that look for Him, He shall appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:28
    The above text was written by Paul, way way after Christ went back to heaven.
    Ofcourse, after Christ resurrected on Sunday morning, He quickly went to heaven to have His Father approve His Sacrifice, after that, He quickly came back to see His disciples. But this was not the second coming, because He did not bring salvation to all those who were waiting for Him. Infact, no one was waiting for Him, for all His followers assumed that He was dead forever. And had all lost hope in Him.
    But when He officially ascended to heaven in their view, the angels that were with Him promised that He will come back again visibly.
    But His second coming will not be as His first. This time, He shall come from heaven with all His holy angels, and bring salvation to all those that are waiting for Him (take His people to heaven).
    Dont believe that rapture doctrine, it is not Biblical at all. Yes, Gods people will be taken to heaven, but not one by one. It will happen when Jesus comes back. He will resurrect all the faithful from all ages, and together with the living faithful, take us all to heaven together.

  6. manlypoetryman profile image75
    manlypoetrymanposted 5 years ago

    Sometime...Sometime...it will happen. Jesus will return and set up his Kingdom here on Earth. You can read the scriptures and try your very best to interpret how the future will play out, but you will ultimately fall short in predicting the exact future play of events.

    Man will know the season, but not the hour or day...as a for instance. That is a prime example. Have you noticed...as you study the Bible that things begin to become more clear. I have noticed that since the 90's...it has been gradually easier to see how the End Times and the Tribulation Period can all come together like parts of a jig saw puzzle actually coming together that you can see...first hand. Take for instance the oceans turning red...which satellite imagery showed waves of red flowing from the BP oil spill in the Gulf...last year. Who'd have thought?

    It will happen...just exactly like it says in the Bible. We may have understanding...but we don't know exacts...until they actually happen. Some things that occur may even be subtle...some not. When have tornados done so much destruction within such a short time...in our recorded U.S history...for instance? One thing to always think of is that all 100% of all prophecies all came true about Jesus...in his time on Earth. They came exactly according to scripture. Did David forsee Roman Soldiers or the cruxificion when he stated "They cast lots for my clothes"...or " I can feel the number of my bones"?

    Who knew those scriptures exact interpretation ahead of time...before it was actually fulfilled? So, do I believe, will be the case for Jesus Second Coming. Just exactly as according to scripture, but not by man's thinking ahead of time...of how it will be.

  7. dutchman1951 profile image60
    dutchman1951posted 5 years ago

    Here is a link that some what acurately discusses it if that helps

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming_of_Christ

    Personaly, from reading it, I do not think it has happend as yet, I do not think His appearence to Thomas was a 2nd comming as it was or seems isolated to a specific purpose,  and not to all of mankind.  Just an opinion  smile

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think the first one happened! lol

      1. dutchman1951 profile image60
        dutchman1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        it is very doubtfull the entire story as it is told today is close to truth. There were several men who were known to roam through the territories as self proclaimed profits, and in several cases They, the Roman's, did track some of them down and eliminate them, because of fears of uprisings.

        I would say the story is really about one of them in truth, if we ever track it down for real. We may be shocked. To many Churches would stop it though. Too much to loose for them.

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The way investigation in to our history with the new tools of science is going, we are going to be able to demonstrate that the jesus myth and all the other religious nonsense is just that.

          The rhubarb that supports religion is falling apart daily since all the documentaries started to make decent figures through TV and gain a much larger audience than in the past.

          Religion is dying amongst the educated, and the lies, psychosis and threatening from religious tomes will die a natural death soon due to a better understanding of the sciences.

          The last 10 years of information has already killed religion for all but the psychologically challenged, the ignorant by choice and the indoctrinated believers.

          I think it has already got to the point of being humorous to believe in an invisible sky fairy.
          Of course the religiously insane will be around until they die out

          1. dutchman1951 profile image60
            dutchman1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Earnest, I actualy had a Pastor tell me this same thing. I was very surprised when he did so.

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I am not so surprised.

              One of my old mates who looks after homeless through his church hasn't bought a word of it for 20 years! smile

    2. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      dutchman1951 wrote ...
        as it was or seems isolated to a specific purpose, and not to all of mankind.


      = - = - ==  -- =-

        Concerning what is written about the second coming.

        I agree witch YA  ..  kinda - sorta

        As it was written ...  this promise of coming back and getting sumofum wasn't made to everybody.
        If Ya actually read it ...  this promise was made to a few Hebrews.   That is until someone didn't like it the way that it reads so he said that it is OK to interpret scripture the way that we can like it.

         And everyone has been doing that ever sinse.

        Now, nobody knows how to read it the old unterpreted way.

      1. dutchman1951 profile image60
        dutchman1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        well can not argue that for sure.

        but...if we are to follow that premise, then Jesus never said it either!
        a whitness to the the events wrote it down some 80 -150 years later? By word of mouth  So he could have meant all Hebrews, or all of mankind, in reference to the population of the world, whenever he is suposidly to come again?   No way to tell.

        but you are right, it needs to be acurate for what was really said and done in the context and time Then, not as today.  Point Taken kind sir.

        1. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you, thank you.


             It is just my opinion that if we can not boil it down to a brine that taste good we aught to not pay any mind to it.

             ( Hillbilly jargin)

             Like my grand pa said  ya gotta be able to listen  over  all the B.S.   in order to hear what tha guy is really saying.

              But I am starting to learn that everyone hears what they want to hear.  And I get to hear it the way I hear it.


              If I get lost following somebodys directions ...  I feel better if it was my own directions.   If I'm wrong then it will all be my fault.


          Edit ...  yep   I am  yes I am in a good mood tonight.

  8. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    earnestshub wrote:
    The way investigation in to our history with the new tools of science is going, we are going to be able to demonstrate that the jesus myth and all the other religious nonsense is just that.

    The rhubarb that supports religion is falling apart daily since all the documentaries started to make decent figures through TV and gain a much larger audience than in the past.

    Religion is dying amongst the educated, and the lies, psychosis and threatening from religious tomes will die a natural death soon due to a better understanding of the sciences.

    The last 10 years of information has already killed religion for all but the psychologically challenged, the ignorant by choice and the indoctrinated believers.

    I think it has already got to the point of being humorous to believe in an invisible sky fairy.
    Of course the religiously insane will be around until they die out
    -=-=-=
    dutchman1951
    Earnest, I actualy had a Pastor tell me this same thing. I was very surprised when he did so.
    =-=-=-=


       I agree with both of ya as long as we get to remember that some truths ( as humanity precieves them) truth  goes in circles.


       I probably need to go to my corner before I make a fool of myself again....    OOps    to late.   It is bed time anyway.

      but I'm not that sleepy.   good night any way

 
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