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Will unborn children be included in the rapture?

  1. Lynn Ella profile image60
    Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago

    I don't think I've ever had this discussion before and I'm just curious if there is any common thought on this.

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No. No preemies in heaven, just cute little cherubs flying around. But you do get to take your hemorrhoids with. No baggage fee.

      1. Lynn Ella profile image60
        Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        oh great - well hopefully the could will be soft and fluffy.  Although my daugher (who is an airborne soldier) tells me they are in fact dirty when you go through them

    2. Apostle Jack profile image60
      Apostle Jackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There no scripture for the word Rapture,nor going to heaven BEFORE Judgment Day.What happen was that someone included the word to mean a separate time when everyone that is saved will go to heaven while the earth is going through a tribulation period for 7 years after which they shall return to earth.The scriptures that is given concerning that don't refer to such an event at all.It is an assumption and theory and nowhere near the truth.
      The scriptures that they refer to is speaking of JUDGMENT DAY and not a self -impose Rapture of pagan belief.

    3. Apostle Jack profile image60
      Apostle Jackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is no such thing.The scriptures that is given refer to JUDGMENT DAY...and NOT a 7 YEAR TRIBULATION PERIOD.

      1. Lynn Ella profile image60
        Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Let me rephrase the question - On Judgment Day, will the unborn be judged along with everyone else?

        1. Beelzedad profile image62
          Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Would that include the proverbial 'twinkle' in ones eye? smile

          1. Lynn Ella profile image60
            Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            well that was the original question smile

            A lot of the responses were focused on whether the "rapture" is real or not.  And that actually doesn't matter much to me.  It will either happen or it won't; the world will end or it won't; but pregnant women die every day.  I guess I should have phrased it in that way - what happens to an unborn child if the mother dies (as far as God's judgment).

            However, I will admit that the latest rapture hoax offered a great opportunity to start what has been a very interesting conversation  - lol.

            1. Beelzedad profile image62
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Agreed, as will the next rapture hoax, and the next, and ... lol

              smile

        2. Apostle Jack profile image60
          Apostle Jackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          God don't judge the innocent.

          1. 0
            SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Actually, the innocent are already judged and found innocent.  The guilty are judged and found guilty.

            1. Beelzedad profile image62
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Where do you see yourself at this point, SirDent? Do you believe you are innocent or guilty? smile

              1. Lynn Ella profile image60
                Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I suspect Sir Dent (like all the rest of us) should answer "yes" to your question.

                1. Beelzedad profile image62
                  Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  lol Good one!

    4. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ________________________
      There is no such thing as the rapture,. but if there was, the unborn baby would be taken.It would have never sinned.
      Salvation is not something someone needs to nor can DO. God is the one who saves you from all kinds of things
      An unborn baby has nothing to repent

      1. Lynn Ella profile image60
        Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I lean toward the belief that a person gains a soul with the first breath.  So, I do not necessarily believe that an unborn child - who I do believe enters the world sinless - has a soul to present for judgment.

        1. 0
          Deborah Sextonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If there was a rapture to take people away it would not be for judgment. The concept of the Christian is that those who belong to God would be taken.

          The soul according to the Hebrew definition is the whole person,. the mind,. body everything.
          The spirit is the part that comes from God and returns to God.
          In Hebrew, the spirit is what all the English call the soul,. but is not the same thing. The unborn baby has the soul, spirit and body.
          Seems you are basing your belief on the verse in Genesis that says "and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life"
          God did that once and then every child was in the image of his parents,. therefore had both the spirit and soul.

          Genesis 5:3
          And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

  2. 0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    This has to be the oddest question I've run across in a while. I certainly hope you get some responses. I'll be interested in reading them. How would you answer the question?

    1. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not sure.  I believe the soul is  taken in with the first breath - that's just a personal opinion.   But I have no idea.

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        A kindred spirit on that point.. I like the way you think.

  3. CMHypno profile image87
    CMHypnoposted 5 years ago

    I feel sorry for anyone who would believe that a god/divinity would leave an unborn child behind while it's mother was raptured up to heaven, presumably just because said foetus had not yet heard of JC.

    Mind you the whole idea of the rapture is the most bloodthirsty, un-christian concept that man ever dreamed up - not dissimilar to the Romans sitting in the heights enjoying assorted Christians being thrown to the lions in the Colosseum

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think you misunderstand the "rapture" according to Christianity.

      And it might be more a scenario where the soul of the child is taken up (raptured) while the mother (if she's not a believer) gets left behind.  Children are innocent until they reach the time where they can make an informed decision about right and wrong, like Thrifty Diane said.

      That being said, I think too many people have taken the "Left Behind" series of movies too literally.

      While there's no reference to the word rapture in the Bible, the concept is there.  A couple of people were "raptured", Enoch and Elijah.  I just find no reason to think a future rapture will be an event like most people think.

      I believe the "rapture" to simply be the one-time, end-of-time event when Christ comes back to sort us all out, to take His people to Heaven and the unbelievers to judgement.

      And while I could be wrong about the event, I see no reason for God to simply make some people disappear while leaving everyone else behind.  Because if, by the time He comes back, they haven't made up their minds about what they believe, then living through a literal period of "tribulation" isn't gonna change their minds or hearts.  And the reason I think that is this-----Jesus came to this earth and literally gave his life for everyone.  If that witness already isn't good enough, then nothing is.   As the Old Testament says, some will not believe "though one rose from the dead".....

      1. CMHypno profile image87
        CMHypnoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Unfortunately Brenda, too many people do seem to believe in this literal view of the rapture and even seem to relish the idea. This makes them cruel and bloodthirsty in my opinion.

        The whole idea of a final judgement day where only believers in JC get a free pass to heaven is so wrong in so many ways. Yes the human race will probably come to an end one day, but it will be down to natural causes, not some vengeful old deity smacking his chops at the idea of finally getting to throw the heathens into the fiery pit for eternity

    2. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I truly enjoyed reading your conversation with Brenda.  You both have very interesting points of view.  Thanks for participating in my first forum post.

  4. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 5 years ago

    Well, this is quite an odd topic and a difficult one at that.
    Hello Lynn, welcome to HP.

    I can only respond to your question with what I know --so far-- to be accurate. There is no such event called Rapture to take place. As for the unborn participating, should such an event exist --that would defy the requiring of salvation (also known as Born Again meaning birth by water; birth by spirit). Each individual can be 'caught up' or glorified at any age, as it only requires rejecting the premise of sin & death and accepting fully the premise of Eternal Life.

    I hope this eases your concerns, at least to some degree.
    smile
    James.

    1. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      THank you James.  I'm a Christian - I believe the Church will be called by a trumpet.  I understand the unborn are sinless - I'm just curious as to what the mechanics of receiving an unborn soul would be.

  5. optimus grimlock profile image60
    optimus grimlockposted 5 years ago

    ask anita baker she'll tell u all about the rapture

    1. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Who?

  6. wilderness profile image94
    wildernessposted 5 years ago

    As there will be no marriage in heaven it seems unlikely that an out of wedlock child would be welcome.  Unless perhaps the mother is to be pregnant for eternity, forever suffering the discomfort of her condition?

    Or perhaps it would be accepted, but only after the first trimester - that seems to be a defining point for humans.  A fertilized egg need not apply.

    1. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think most Christians believe babies are innocent of their parents sin.  Its only when you're old enough to know that you are a sinner that you can be saved.

      The rest of your response is tricky part.

  7. kess profile image59
    kessposted 5 years ago

    At the time of the end both death and Life will walk the face of this earth as men.

    Now the water will come and make the separation between the two.

    Life because of the water have found it within themselves to rise above it (Water) into eternal Life.

    And Death because of and by the same water are overcomed.

    So babies at that present time will be born not as Life but as death  and so they also will be overcome by the water.

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      kess,
      as usual you speak in much supposedly-mysterious wording that simply translates to confusion....or nonsense from what I can tell.

      1. kess profile image59
        kessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If the darkness would understand the Light, then  it would Live.....

        but since all darkness will do is scoff .....its death remain.


        Light on the other hand always understand the darkness,
        And that being so He looked at it and say .....It is Good.

        Have you decided who you are?

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I'm an adopted child of God, born-again by Jesus Christ.
          I also know who I am NOT.  Unlike some around here who I've seen make posts claiming to BE God.

          1. Lynn Ella profile image60
            Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I really enjoyed reading your coments.  Thanks for participating.  You have helped make my first forum post a very interesting experience.

    2. aka-dj profile image79
      aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Say what??? hmm

    3. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Do you think women would spontaneously deliver?  Is that what you're saying?  And do you think peoples bodies will not be taken in the raputer?  Interesting - different than what I was taught as a child.

      1. kess profile image59
        kessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No, those that will be born at that time fate would have already been decided by that time....

        Meaning that The number to be  "raptured" would have already been fulfilled.

        I use the term rapture so as to relate to this thread

        But it is not a physical body going up into the sky but a person by His own spiritual knowledge passing from death into Life...

        Meaning that by their faith they possess the knowledge that enables them transform their physicality into that which is Spirituality.

        1. Lynn Ella profile image60
          Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't agree that the unborn have a determined fate.  But I appreciate your response.

  8. Thrifty Diane profile image75
    Thrifty Dianeposted 5 years ago

    Babies and children have complete innocence until they reach the maturity of understanding right from wrong. A fetus is still a baby - it simply has not developed enough to live on its own.

    1. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks!

  9. Shadesbreath profile image90
    Shadesbreathposted 5 years ago

    Well, since the rapture predicted for tomorrow is moronic, having an argument about whether or not fetuses are going to be included in the non-existent event is a really great example of begging the question.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Shades, it begs more than one question... tongue lol lol lol

      1. Shadesbreath profile image90
        Shadesbreathposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah, you ain't lyin'.

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh my, where do I begin? lol lol

    2. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I was prompted because I think those who believe abortion is murder should have answered yes - unborn fetuses will be raptured.

  10. Lissie profile image87
    Lissieposted 5 years ago

    Looks like no one is getting raptured in NZ where its well past 6pm on the 21st - looks like it was yet another con of the naive and gullible - again - but this so-called man of God

    1. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      yep another religious nut conning gullible people out of their life savings

      1. Lissie profile image87
        Lissieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm loving the current banner on the website http://www.familyradio.com/index2.html Judgement Day May 21 2011 - the Bible Guarantees It!

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well, I guess it has to be true then!
          Hi Lissie!

        2. Lynn Ella profile image60
          Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What I find ironic is that the same people who I am positive would look you straight in the face and tell you witchcraft is satanic, based this false prophecy on numerology, which is technically a form of withcraft.  And that's where I have to draw the line between what I believe and what is passing for Christianity in many areas of this country.

          1. 0
            Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            some witchcraft if failed to work

          2. 0
            Deborah Sextonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            ___________________
            The bible if full of numerology and it is not witchcraft. Why do you think certain key numbers were used over and over in scripture. Witchcraft... Gees

            1. Lynn Ella profile image60
              Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I think if you read the Bible with your heart and mind open to God's word that you will find the truth.  I think if you try to "decode" the Bible using man-made theories, then you probably will not receive the message God has for you as an individual.  And, I would suggest that the use of numerology in relation to God's will may cause some people to wrongly predict the end of the world.

              1. 0
                Deborah Sextonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No not true. I have  searched and studied scripture since I was 14. I am an ordained Jewish minister. If you study the Hebrew Bible it is easy to see. No need to decode. The English Bible is a generic like translation.
                The bible is deep and has many mysteries.
                Please don't tell me because you don't agree with me that I need to find God.

                The Hebrews didn't have numbers in those days and used the alphabet to express them. And it's all through the bible. Any Hebrew will tell you the same thing. The bible was written in Hebrew and Aramaic both languages of the Hebrew people.
                Calling something that is of God, witchcraft is not good.
                No one in the Jewish religion predicts the end of the world,. that was a Christian that did that. Christians are the only ones who believe in the rapture and that person did.

                Tunnel vision takes us no where

                1. Lynn Ella profile image60
                  Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Whether or not we agree and however you choose to worship God is irrelevant to me.  This question wasn't particularly about the rapture or numerology.  This question was my (obviously poorly done) attempt to determine what readers think about whether the unborn have a soul.

                  1. 0
                    Deborah Sextonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes,. I know, but you are the one who brought up the numerology and in a negative tone. I am allowed to answer.

    2. Amanda Severn profile image91
      Amanda Severnposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      So far, so good, then Lissie. Glad to hear you're still in one piece!

      1. Lissie profile image87
        Lissieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah I can't be waiting for God any longer - he's well late - going to bed!

    3. CMHypno profile image87
      CMHypnoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Maybe nobody in NZ is worthy of being raptured? Don't expect too many of us in the UK will be going up either!

      Maybe not enough 'rapturees' to make the earthquake worth it?

    4. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for stopping by.  I'm glad to hear I didn't miss anything.

  11. Thrifty Diane profile image75
    Thrifty Dianeposted 5 years ago

    It looks like God is angry that we trampled his garden. lol

    1. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      My dad lives in Southeast Missouri.  I told him God wanted his land back.  He agreed.

  12. brotheryochanan profile image60
    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago

    1 Corinthians 7:14   For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

    I reckon this pertains to those raptured with unborn child. The raptured would be sanctified and so would the child within the sanctified person.

    Another example of rapture being UNscriptural and YET another of Christendoms FALSE doctrinal beliefs.

    1. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      As I age and reread my Bible with a closer eye, I admit I have many more questions.  Anyway, the unborn child is innocent, right?  Or, would you lean more to my belief that the soul comes with the breath?

    2. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      1 Corinthians 7:14   For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the (believing)  wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the (believing) husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
                               fyi. lol

      Innocent.... hmmm. Pretty hard to point a finger at a child.
      Romans 3:23 all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Salvation is needed by everyone, without it, a person cannot know God. As unsaved children grow up they succumb to the indoctrination of a sinful world and its sinful precepts. So i wouldn't say innocent, exactly, unsuspecting maybe lol, but, as close to innocent as innocent is.

      Soul comes with the breath....  a living soul has breath and a dead soul has no breath. Gen 2:7 is interesting stuff. My belief is that the soul is our fleshly housing and that humans are spiritually dead without God. I don't subscribe to the triune human belief.

      1. Lynn Ella profile image60
        Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I am a Christian but I am entranced by Thomas Payne's Age of Reason.  I believe in one God and no more ... God's existence is proven by existence itself ... and I also agree that it would have been a better miracle if Jonah had swallowed the whale.

        At the same time, I cannot let go of my childhood indoctrination ... although I recognize that I was misled in some of the teachings and scriptures taught out of context.

        anyway, I really appreciate that you took the time to respond.  I think somewhere in the scripture Paul says that those who die without an opportunity to receive the Good News are subject to judgment by God's natural law - which I think would technically cover an unborn child - IF you believe the soul resides within the body prior to the body's birth.

        I don't know, but thanks again!

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Some things we may never know, but in all things i do not consider God to ever be unfair or vindictive. Children are a sore spot with some of us but its just another soul and spirit to God and really He can do what he wants with it. For those that enter Gods afterlife I am sure all questions and stumbling blocks will be removed and answered. It is best just to do the best we can do and after we sleep, we will most assuredly know all things then. Not to mention it will be worth it all.
          Indoctrination is only erased by thorough praying combined with study.  Once the truth is revealed the indoctrination becomes a thing despised and i always find, it brings us closer to the real God. Fasting does indeed help when one is heavily burdened.
          Peace In Him dear seeker

          hehe jonah swallowed the whale.. funny

          1. 0
            Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            no, indoctrination is not erased with prayer & bible study - that's what Harold Camping did for decades and still ended up with egg on his face.

            Indoctrination is erased by questioning what one believes and becoming educated about different options.  Learning to think for oneself.

            1. brotheryochanan profile image60
              brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              no you are wrong.
              try the other side of the bed to wake up on

              1. 0
                Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I speak from experience.  What about you?

                1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                  brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Once the truth is revealed the indoctrination becomes a thing despised and I ALWAYS FIND, it brings us closer to the real God.

                  I have seen what your experience has gotten you.

                  1. 0
                    Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    how can you ALWAYS FIND - you haven't been a christian very long, & you weren't indoctrinated from childhood.

                    And where has my experience gotten me?  Out of madness and mayhem

          2. Beelzedad profile image62
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You yourself put a definition of indoctrination here already - your words:

            "A synonym of indoctrinate is brainwash, propagandize BUT the definition is:
            1.   to instruct in a doctrine,  principle, ideology, etc., especially to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view."


            In essence, you are saying that prayer and study will reveal the indoctrination, yet it is the "doctrine, principle, ideology and biased belief" which has already being described as the indoctrination.

            All you'll manage to do if you follow your logic is to only reinforce and embrace the indoctrination. smile

            1. aka-dj profile image79
              aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If I became like you, then I would simply exchange my current worldview to yours, taking on your "doctrine" for life. Thereby, becoming indoctrinated to think and believe as you do.

              What have I gained? Nothing but a different worldview.

              Judging your perspective on many things (based on your many posts), I don't want to be like you any more than you want to be like me.

              So where does that lead us?
              Right back to where we started.
              Hence, a circular argument.

              Why do you work so tirelessly trying to convert believers to your doctrines?

              1. Beelzedad profile image62
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That still doesn't show that you are questioning anything or thinking for yourself. Sure, it's easy to be indoctrinated into scientific theories as it is for religion, one just readily accepts whatever they're told without question or reserve.



                What you mean is I don't want to stop thinking and you don't want to start, yes?



                Not really, formulating an argument for your faith would be required before it become circular.



                I just question your doctrines, conversions are based on your answers. smile

                1. aka-dj profile image79
                  aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  There you go again, accusing me of not thinking for myself.
                  It's the same, lame approach you (all) use, insinuating that non-believers are thinkers (as if that were some exalted trait), and all the believers are mindless morons (more or less).
                  And then, you have the hide to say we are condescending, when we assert our beliefs.

                  It would be so refreshing for one of your ilk to just admit that you also are creatures of faith, just directed at materialism/naturalism doctrines.

                  Even Dawkins did that, (even if it was a slip of the tongue).

                  1. Beelzedad profile image62
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    But, you aren't thinking, your posts are evidence of that. You believe indoctrination is exactly the same thing as teaching, but it's not, by a long shot.

                    You believe those who have spent years getting an eduction have been indoctrinated.



                    You see, you haven't any idea of the differences.



                    And, to top it all off and make things even worse, you fabricate stories to support your indoctrination. smile

  13. thebrucebeat profile image60
    thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago

    Since we are supposed to love God with all our minds, as well as heart and soul and strength, I have a follow up question to the OP.
    Will morons and simpletons be included in the rapture?

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Maybe not Camping's, but they are welcome in the rapture of My End Time Prophecy. For a price. I've already set up my Pay Pal account for donations from believers. The heathens will have to pay in cash. You may not have heard of it. I'm still working on the media coverage.

    2. aka-dj profile image79
      aka-djposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What a haughty position you adopt!
      You consider the intellectuals as being of higher value than "simpletons & morons".

      God has chosen the weak to overcome the strong, and the foolish to confound the wise. He came to seek and save that which was lost. He calls the sinner to repentance, not the righteous. He came heal the sick, not the well.

      If you really understood what you quoted (re loving God), you would have answered your own question.


      Even a simpleton or moron, if they love God with all their (feeble according to you) mind, they still do it with ALL, even though their mental/intellectual ability is far below yours.

      So, YES they will. And may I say ahead of the self righteous of this world.

      I hope I answered your question clearly. smile

      1. thebrucebeat profile image60
        thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Perfectly, and accurately.
        You are absolutely correct in your parsing of the heart of scripture.
        Mine was simply a commentary on those that do not use their brain power to realize they are extrapolating to the point of absurdity the lessons scripture is teaching.
        But you are absolutely correct in what you post.

    3. Lynn Ella profile image60
      Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      One must be able to comprehend the nature of sin in order to be judged sinful.  So, I guess it would depend on the depth of understanding that the moron or simpleton possesses. 

      In relation to my question, the moron or simpleton has already been born and exists in the natural world, so God has something to base judgment on.

  14. Greek One profile image80
    Greek Oneposted 5 years ago

    doesnt look like anyone was included in this 'rapture'

    But I heard the date was moved to October now.

    That's gonna really put a damper on Halloween this year sad

  15. Lynn Ella profile image60
    Lynn Ellaposted 5 years ago

    I have nothing against any spiritual practice and if you took my statement that way then I certainly extend you an apology.  I simply find it humorous that those claiming one faith - a clear example of extreme andmisguided Christianity - would employ a practice that I have no doubt they would otherwise condemn.

 
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