The United States was founded upon many basic principles, one of which was religious freedom. Doesn't this mean that even those who don't believe in anything have the right to do so? Of course it does. Well then why does our government involve god in every official political speech. Even when you swear in for military service or any other type of government job, you are have to take an oath which ends with "so help me God". Many presidents have ended a countless amount of speeches, which were addressed to the whole nation, with "god bless you all" or "may god help us" etc. I personally think this is very politically incorrect. What about those who do not believe? This is almost as if forcing religious belief upon someone.
At least that's my opinion. Where do you stand on the subject?
Where do I stand? In a state of disappointment that ANYONE would complain about God being included in America's lawmaking procedures and life. Yet many, like you, do complain.
What would you rather have happen---for people to say "Nothing bless you all" or just ignore you altogether, or to cater to your non-belief which translates to the same thing?
Of course you have the right to not believe.
But what you do not have the right to do is try to change this Nation into a Godless society. Well, you may have the legal right, given to you by liberal Judges etc., like the fools who catered to Madelyn Murray O'Hare and her nothingness. But you don't have the moral right to. You're, (perhaps unknowingly, I dunno) virtually biting the Hand that's fed and protected and blessed this Nation so far.
Well maybe you should come back from the 3rd century my dear. This is simply a friendly question. But since you want to direct to me in that tone, I will reply to you in a non-friendly tone. There's no need to get all hyped up with your ignorance and hypocrisy. I never said I did not believe. I do very much believe there is a God, I pray to him everyday. Too bad people like you are ready to jump to conclusions and start arguments without giving others a moment to express themselves. That is the same principle by which the church rules your life, telling you what to do.
Religion is great, when it comes to spiritual guidance. It shouldn't be part of every aspect of life. You can't rule a nation and except to find the answers on how to rule one in the Bible. We are an advancing society and people like you are primitive. Look at the facts. Every country in the world based on religious beliefs is primitive and ignorant. And you are NOBODY to tell me I don't have the moral right to. I have the moral right to do anything I please, as long as it is positive.
So please, take your ignorance somewhere else Mrs. Durham because you can't beat religion into people. I posted this to TALK to people and get others "opinions", not to start an argument.
You can't beat atheism into people either.
Well, I've been called ignorant before, but that's the first time I've been called "primitive" I think....
Thank you, I love it!
May the flying spaghetti monster hold you up with his pasta-sticky fingers, since that's the kind of "god" you must believe in. 'Cause you sure don't sound like a believer in God; no one who really believes in Him would complain about anyone blessing us in His Name, unless it's obvious that they're only doing so for false reasons.
You talk about "Him" the way the church taught you to talk and think. You have been brainwashed by your so called "religion". I do not believe in the kind of God you describe. I believe in the same kind of God that you believe in. I just don't need to go to a building filled with hipocrytes to fulfill my connection with the Almighty. I can very well do that on my own. You call it the "house of god" but anyone can establish a church and call it a "house of god". With what right?
Jesus himself said "the Kingdom of God is inside you, and all around you, not in mansions of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood... and I am there, lift a stone... and you will find me. "
You would, 21.
But then, you're so intent on seeing Christ "in" people that you seem to forget that He is not "in" everyone, and He is also His own person, that He is God apart from us.
never said He wasn't.
He -the breathe of Life is in everyone, else you wouldn't exist.
His power -that of his Spirit, is not in 99%.
i am intent on seeing the anointing of Grace in everyone, yes, as "Jesus" was also.
Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Flying Spaghetti Monster, Buddhism, Scientology, Hindi, Catholicism and a million more Ism's have nothing to do with Him....
Indeed the Kingdom is within those of us who believe in Jesus the Christ. The Kingdom was among the disciples when Jesus walked among them. You're right that the church building doesn't equate to being the Kingdom.
But just because you're disgruntled with church people doesn't mean Christianity as I know it is invalid or wrong. I think I've probably seen just as many hypocritical things go on as anyone else. Matter of fact, it's one reason I don't go to church all the time. But that doesn't persuade me to leave the Faith, nor does it persuade me to include false religions in with it.
What I do find, when I think on those hypocritical things that've happened, is that I remember we are all fallible and in need of both exhortation and forgiveness at times. No one is perfect.
Those in power love to push their own religion and pretend that is what everyone believes. That's how most religious people are in the first place. Powerful or not.
yes, but then it would be hard to divorce them, particularly in America, because religion is politics
Well, of course it should be banned. Along with free speech, and all those other pesky things in the Bill of Rights. What in the world were the founders thinking? While you're at it, please do something about visigoths, spiders and those pesky people that jangle change in their pockets. These irritate me too.
A worldwide ban would solve most of the planets current wars.
Well, then, it should be easy enough to accomplish. We'll just use our military and a lotta guns and lives. And you guys think that religion is the problem. LOL! You aren't asking for a little change. Take a trip to D.C. You'll have to raze it. That means Level it, Cag. And all those pesky religious people? Gee, I wonder if there are enough lions left to do it? Better pack a lunch and bring your friends.
Hey Druid, I realize you're not on the same level as the bulb powering your monitor, but do try to call people by their actually names beings used on their posts.
Earnest is NOT Me.
agreed, and thus removing politics and religion, the entire industrialized world will end, the economic dysfunction and science as well.
Finally, a sound plan.
Earnest, I totally agree with you. The ban of religion from all political aspects of a nation would be very much helpful. After all, it is the reason for the War on Terror going on around the world. Tens of thousands of Americans have lost their lives fighting Islamic militancy, because these primitive minded people believe that the only way of establishing a society where they can practice their religious beliefs to the fullest is by destroying anything or anyone who does not share their views and beliefs.
No, the reason for the War on Terror is, and was begun, because of the loss of MANY lives when terrorists rammed planes into the Twin Towers on 9/11 nine years ago, plus the many terrorist acts perpetuated before and since then. Just to refresh your memory. How easily some forget.
Mrs. Durham I was apparently very right to call you ignorant. You are the definition of ignorance exposed at its finest. You don't know anything about the subject but you still want to teach others.
9/11 was an attack made by people who were Islamic militants. If you do not understand the term, Google it and you might learn something. The war on terror has been going on for many years before 9/11. It's not about one single attack. It is much more than that. For the "terrorists", its a religious war for the survival of their beliefs and ways of life.
And don't you dare tell me "how easily some forget". Who do you think you are? I was there for your information. And by there I mean in New York City, only a few blocks away from the attacks. I have never forgotten and I couldn't even if I wanted to.
Let me remind you of something because you obviously have a very short memory: Stop jumping to conclusions about things you don't know only because you have an "opinion".
Earnest, do you honestly believe that a world wide ban would stop arabs and jews from their conflict????????
Well, considering that the politics are bogged down by the loony zionists in Israels's supporters of Natanyahu, and the equally crazy Muslim fundies running the Palestinian death camp they call Palestine, yes, I think it would at least make a peace settlement possible.
I would, like you say yes it would help, but
I have traveled in the region a lot, and from what I saw, I have to say I personaly do not think it will.
maybe after generations die off, but some healing has to start some where first, before they all just pass it on to the next one below them.
I think this is a premise for WW 3,... water comming to a boil now. I sincerely hope not so.
I have great faith in the current generation on both sides. They have the Internet and many are educated.
The old will lose power.
Education is the natural enemy of religious zealousness.
I hope so Earnest, like you I will also hold that Faith, because the Young there have seen enough for real.
you know....maybe Facebook may be the answer! never though of it that way, just kind of took it for granted it was just there like your laptop is. But, yes maybe so
you have an advantage in that youe have kids and see them grow in this time, I have none, so I see it from outside a parents eye, and maybe you really have something here, kind sir
Thank you. I have bought up two children, then adopted a third. I now have 6 grandchildren who are all light years ahead of where I was at their age.
I have been noticing the changes in demonstrations throughout the middle east, and it seems they are becoming less violent (from the protesters side) and the signs are getting better!
The faces are mostly younger too.
tis tru, the observation. I see it on the News casts. and I do remember a news story by a street reporter in Egypt explaining how one small group of protestors took away a Muslum Brotherhood sign for some folks and told them no, it was for peace and equality, not that. I do remember that.
so, maybe so....The youth advancing in spite of what we adults put them through!!!!
gotta smile on that one
This sounds like a great idea. If we'd done it in the past, it would have stopped Hitler, Stalin, and Mao from murdering their millions. And if a country doesn't voluntarily adopt this ban, let's go to war and force them.
Yes, Australia is about to invade America and force a secular society on them.
Same old arguments. Hitler was a confused religionist by the way, and the others you mention were just plain mentally ill as well.
None were as crazy as the biblical psychopath who wiped out all but a handful of mankind according to your "good book" though.
Yes, I firmly believe our country's laws should be religiously based. If we do not act, and legislate as religion dictates we face eternal damnation - as individuals and as a nation.
To give ourselves the best protection against such a fate, we should rotate, on an annual basis, the religion on which our laws are based; after all every religion has an equally valid argument for being the one true faith.
Christians, Jews, and even Muslims thanks to our Kenyan President, have all had their time writing our laws. Next year, let's put the Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Hindus, or even the Pastafarians in charge. We'll skip the Mayans for now though. 2012 would be a bad year to have them in power.
Yup, that's actually the way the politically-correct people will try to spin it. Already are trying to spin it.
When a Christian Nation is allowed to stray from its original basis, it starts to decline. We're in the midst of it right now, thanks to all the activists who want, like Obama, to fundamentally change us all.
We are not, and never were a nation who's ideals or laws are based on a religion. You would probably feel more comfortable living under Taliban or Wahabi rule since they enforce laws the way you would like our government to.
That's not even true.
There is freedom in justice.
But there is no justice within total freedom.
Moral laws bind us all. None of us are totally free. Nor should we be. The liberty to do just anything we might want to do is the beginning of total chaos and depravity. That's just a fact, whether you're a liberal or a conservative.
Glad to spark your enthusiasm.
Not boring here anymore, is it?
Now, to be perfectly serious, exactly what part of that post don't you understand?
Brenda, there is never a need to understand conjecture or nonsense. However, I do appreciate your interest in wanting to add to the knowledge I've already collected so far. It's just unfortunate, you bring nothing to the table that would allow you to add to my knowledge. Oh well, but good effort on your part.
You are confusing morality with religious doctrine.
No, religion should not be incorporated in government and politics the ways in which it is. Politicians tend to pull the Jesus card when theyre in trouble or to hide whatever lies theyre telling. Almost never do politcians assume a religious perspective in order to reflect their motivation for governing.
As for the whole Christian nation thing, I have just this one question:
In exactly what part of this nation's history is the Christian spirit reflected? When we gave only aristocratic white men the right to vote? When we wiped out the Iroquois, Cherokee and Apache nations among others? Lynchings? Robber Barons? The Atomic Bomb?
The US has traditionally been a dominantly Christian society, and that has affected the government and political process. There are still some laws on the books in a few states that ban atheists from running for public office--I kid you not.
For some strange reason various court rulings and thinkers have held that "God" is often a secular idea, such that saying something like "in God we trust" is a secular motto, with no religious implications. That's a whole other kettle of fish, of course.
Luckily for everyone--religious and non-religious--America is becoming progressively less religious as a society. Already the vast majority of Americans lead predominantly secular lives with secular concerns.
Possibly at some point in the future much of the God stuff will be taken out of the public realm, just as a lot of racist content has been removed from the public square as society's values have changed over time.
I don't think public figures should be outright "banned" from using religious content or imagery--that goes to freedom of speech. But hopefully over time it will resonate with the public less and less, and the politicians will just organically move away from that kind of language, very much like politicians in Europe have.
Religion in Politics, Should It Be Banned?
This seems to have been intended for the American audience, but I'll reply, anyway ~ as an Englishwoman.
Religion in Politics should definitely be banned!
Religion in your own home. Fine.
Within church, chapel, temple, mosque, etc, etc. Yes, that's where it belongs.
In government ~ no.
I remember Tony Blair talking about this:
'Mr Blair complained that he had been unable to follow the example of US politicians, such as President George W. Bush, in being open about his [Christian] faith because people in Britain regarded religion with suspicion.'
"If you are in the American political system .. then you can talk about religious faith" ...... "You talk about it in our system and, frankly, people do think you're a nutter ..."
'Alastair Campbell ~ his former communications director ~ once said, "We don't do God" ..'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic … utter.html
I don't think religion is that bad, it is the application of religious principles by politicians that is what causes all the issues. Politicians and Humans by nature are weak and prone to committing negative actions irrespective of their belief (or not in many cases in today's society). Banning something goes against the so called 'Freedom' and 'Democracy' we talk about... thats my view !!!
I say it is the corrupt nature of the organized religion. Look what happens to people when large groups of ANY one religion are in the same place. The Catholics and pedophilia. Mormons and polygamy and now gay rights. Muslims and the Islam extremists. You name it, if there are large numbers, they go corrupt quickly. I don't know if this is just because they are easier to spot or if it goes to their heads or what.
In this case you are implying that only religious people are bad and non-religious people are good.
Which I disagree with. In my opinion Religion and Human behavior are TWO distinct attributes of a person. Religion sets the agenda the person follows, if they do not follow the agenda and take a detour that is not the fault of a religion.
Same goes for groups of people, religions lay down the principles or guidance, if a human (or humans) does not apply them then you can't blame the religion.
Here in the UK, we actually do have a state religion, and the C of E is really good at conducting the sort of ritual that humans seems to require. The Church even puts people into the House of lords, I think, and they can advise. I don't really have a problem with that.
I do have a problem with our politicians deciding upon their political policy, based upon religious, rather than political, reasons.
I worry that some wars could be / have been considered Holy Wars, for example.
Should religion be banned in politics? Sure, why not...In fact, this has already been tried. Google "USSR", Google "Communist Albania." If you want to live in a fascist/Marxist system where one person or a small group of people can decide the politics for the rest of the people, then knock yourself out.
But in a democracy, religion is a mainstay of politics and is largely reflective of the habits of the people. American politics is (and has been) steeped in the Christian religion. America is a Christian nation and that status is reflected in its government from time to time.
One other matter to think about, can you imagine the degree of bureaucracy you would need to outlaw religion in American government? You would have better luck outlawing the discussion of basketball during March Madness.
BS. America isn't a Christian Nation and people like you continue to mistake the Majority(80%+) as a sign of a Christian Nation and it's not.
Many countries separate religion from politics, a simple thing to do. Just say no!
The thesis that America is a Christian nation has been unremarkable and uncontroversial until recently. To say that it's not Christian is to deny history and the capacity to define a nation by its prominent characteristics. If 80% of the American people have a characteristic by choice, then they are, by definition, characteristically that thing.
Yes, apparently in 1967 the authorities stated that religion had divided the country, women were second class citizens regarded as chattel where over 90% of them were illiterate. The status of women and their rights increased dramatically as a result.
Perhaps, we should get some women to comment on whether or not they would prefer the old religious ways, instead.
There is supposed to be religious freedom of expression in America, so if a president wishes to express his belief in his god, he should have the right to do so. However, there does seem to be the expectation, that to be a true American involves having a belief in God, usually the Christian god. This must surely alienate those Americans who either do not believe in the Christian god or do not believe in God at all. As America is a multi-cultural nation, with people from every part of the world, then maybe it is time to move on from the beliefs of the founding fathers and recognise the reality of modern America.
Every time I hear a politician using the word "god," I replace it with the word "allah" and, in my mind, it puts him/her in the same class of fanaticism as the brain washed islamic bigot who screams "Allah Hu Akbar" (God Is The Greatest), with aspirations of becoming a martyr while pushing the button to destroy himself and "innocents."
What would be the chance of the American voter, voting into effect a law that would prohibit the adamant religionist from running for political office?
What would be the chance of one who thinks and believes as I; one who questions the probability of there being an "ubermensch" existing...that can't even be defined,... of being voted into a political office?
Zilch in both prior instances!
Yes! We Americans, all of humanity would be better off if logic and reason ruled.
Monotheism, a negative, exists in opposition to human survival in that it promotes and has "faith" in the "lord" fulfilling an "end" event called "armageddon."
I'm sorry to say, tho, that if religion were abolished, we, the earths prime predator, would replace it with another reason to commit genocide. It's in "our nature."
I was taught, as a kid in the American school system, that the country was built on the belief of separation of Church and State, something about it being in the constitution I think *scratches head*
I have this idea that while there should be a separation of Church and State, in practice it is impossible so long as religion exists. All I need do is see how easily manipulated the religious people are by a politician who talks a good bible talk and will basically say what they know the people want to hear. It is far to easy to stroke peoples ego's by reflecting their religious beliefs back at them all the while getting away with murder on foreign soil. Religion is too powerful a tool for gaining power and enforcing control for politics to ever be totally separate from but respectful of religion.
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