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Life is one big test for future reward in heaven.

  1. The Minstrel profile image80
    The Minstrelposted 6 years ago

    Man is motivated by reward. Being motivated by heavenly rewards keeps us unselfish and loving on earth. Heavens blessings are inexhaustible. Earthly reward systems breed competition, jealousy, and selfishness.

    1. Titen-Sxull profile image93
      Titen-Sxullposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What are you planning on doing with eternity?

      An eternal life would be a curse, not a blessing. Sooner or later you'd run out of things to do and start to get bored or go mad. Maybe you'd last a few hundred, a few thousand, a few million years, but you'd still have eternity to go.

      1. The Minstrel profile image80
        The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The thief on the cross was told by Jesus, "Today, you will be with me in paradise." I don't think you will be bored. It's a totally different place.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
          DoubleScorpionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I wondered at the statement Jesus made to the thief.

          "Today you will be with me in Paradise"

          Didn't Jesus go to hell first for three days, so that he could resurrect to show he had power over Death, Hell and the Grave...

          Is Death,Hell and the Grave considered Paradise? Or have we read into something that we didn't actually understand and have came up with the wrong interpretation.

          1. The Minstrel profile image80
            The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think it is pretty straight forward. Paradise is paradise. Jesus was comforting a thief who understood his position before a King.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
              DoubleScorpionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              So me and you have the same Idea of Paradise? And when did Jesus ever claim to be King?

              1. profile image0
                brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Matthew 5:35   Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
                John 18:37   Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world...
                Revelation 15:3   And they sing the song of MOSES the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou KING of saints.
                Revelation 19:16   And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (jesus)

                Today you shall be with me in paradise is jesus' confirmation that because this man believed, that when he dies he will be gathered unto his people, his name will be written in the book of the living, those in right standing with God. Paradise is not the grave and people don't go to heaven immediately when they die. This fellow on the cross has a shot of being resurrected into the 1,000 yr reign to experience Christ. The man on the cross was not saved but he will get his chance to act out his belief later. When jesus died on the cross that effected the new dispensation, salvation from that point on became absolutely necessary; prior to the cross, belief was needed for right standing.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
                  DoubleScorpionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  You know Brother...It doesn't matter. You will never get past your own one sided beliefs. There is no sense in attempting to have a civil debate with you.

                  And in case you are wondering...According to those who actually have studied and teach the bible...your interpretation is not correct. You are interpreting the bible to support your religious beliefs.

                  David was the first king you referenced...and in the second...Jesus was just confirming what he was being accused of and of the scriptures he was fulfilling....and the last two...John saw words written..nothing was said by Jesus that he was a King...So again I ask...When does Jesus himself ever claim to be a King? You know those words written in Red in some bibles.

                  Have a nice Day smile

                  1. profile image0
                    brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    you're so right.... jesus saying "to this end (king) was i born" i think you missed that part. And to say that john JUST saw letters is really a good chuckle. You may also like to diss 17:14 as just merely words which the original greek confirms.

                    I think you're one sidedness needs to be scrutinized. Jesus on the right hand of God (the place of power and authority) and  "All things given to the Son" including judgment is nothing to worry about and of course why should Jesus receive any positional recognition or title when he reigns in the 1000 yrs and of course kingdoms don't have kings thats why they are called kingdoms, because, dukes rule em. roll
                    Of course you never thought that Jesus ministry was progressive.. teacher, priest, king.
                    and of course if you teach anything less than Jesus being King of kings and Lord of lords i certainly have no interest in your teachings, so teach on teacher.
                    Matthew 5:35 references Jerusalem being the city of the GREAT king... where does Christ come back too on earth? Jerusalem.
                    David was a prophet or don't you know that? Great king... G r e a t  king..  of course psalms 110:1 enters nicely here. God says this verse again in isaiah 66:1

                    1 Timothy 6:15   Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
                    Zechariah prophesy Zechariah 9:9 “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King comes unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an donkey.”
                    Daniel 7:13-14  should be fun for you
                    I'm sorry you aren't able to acknowledge Jesus as king perhaps you don't even recognize him as God in the flesh.
                    Why Jesus is even contested to be a king is beyond me.
                    I can easily be done with the conversation too.

          2. profile image0
            Motown2Chitownposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If one believes in a trinitarian God, then this statement makes perfect sense.  God the Father was in Heaven while Jesus was on the Cross, prior to the sending of the Holy Spirit.  So yes, Jesus went to hell for three days.  God the Father and the Holy Spirit were in Heaven.  Hence, on that day, the thief was with GOD in Paradise.

        2. Titen-Sxull profile image93
          Titen-Sxullposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          But it's an eternal place. Paradise or not the human mind couldn't cope with or comprehend infinity. After ten million years of harp lessons I think anyone would got insane, and in this case it wouldn't be ten million, ten billion or ten trillion, it would be eternal.

    2. recommend1 profile image72
      recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Heavenly reward is an idea constructed by your masters to keep you working and under his thumb - for which your reward is supposed to be heaven.  It is hard to believe in this information age and with all the accumulated knowledge available that anyone would still be peddling this out of date snake oil.  Unless they were in the money business of religion  of course along with the now rich end of the worlders.

      1. profile image0
        brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well that might be true, except that God is not mocked. Can you believe that people will be able to sacrifice their lives for rewards and this wrong motive will go unnoticed by God? The first commandment: LOVE the lord thy God with all thy heart.... Is this love, when one does things for reward? Nope.
        Christians who are christlikeians aren't so very wrapped up in the condition or greatness of their reward, their ambition stems from a desire to please God and to get to know God. This is why i marvel at people who say, "Who can know God?" The whole purpose is to get to know God and Jesus makes this so much more accessible.
        So those who can manage to keep the ways of God because they want their reward will fail, because their motive stems from greed and not love.

    3. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      lol lol lol

    4. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What are you? A trained seal? If you're simply doing  it because you expect reward, are you a good person?

      1. The Minstrel profile image80
        The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        No, I'm just saying that we are motivated out of reward. I'm just being real. If you are living for eternal rewards than it is not selfishness. Heaven is inexhaustible.

        1. Beelzedad profile image61
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Actually, it is selfish because anything you do while you're alive is driven entirely by that one motive, to gain rewards in the afterlife. smile

          1. Druid Dude profile image61
            Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I am fueled mainly by the concept that I'm am one with creation. Think this is heaven/hell. It's what we make it. It has always been in our hands, not because God, or whatever, doesn't exist, but because we had to come to the understanding of that, that if we succeed here, we did it, and if we fail here and Man dies out, that we did that too. Love can't be simply understood as an electro/chemical reaction in the brain, even though that is what it is. Compassion, empathy, all of these are the same. We rule this world like people are merely machines, and we won't survive. We began a journey to the here and now, and a part of each and every one of us has, indeed, made that journey. Every single step was a necessary step to bring us to the dawn of our understanding. We can't let every thing we are be boiled done to absolute fact, or everything we are, disappears. Spirituality, philosophy, theology...all necessary.

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Excellent points.

          2. profile image0
            brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Or one could say that the epitome of selfishness is NOT to believe in God, because, really, God does not endorse living a self ruled life.

            1. Beelzedad profile image61
              Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              If I believe in YOUR god or another god? Can I believe in Zeus or Thor and still not be selfish? smile

              1. vector7 profile image60
                vector7posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                More tangents?

                lol

        2. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Let me ask you. If you found out, beyond a shadow of a doubt that your religion was wrong, would it change a thing? Wouldn't you still be the unselfish, loving person you are now?

          I think we try to do what we think is right because it feels good to do it. Isn't that motivation enough?

          1. The Minstrel profile image80
            The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Where did right and wrong come from? Who set the standard? Why is it so uniform across the nations for the most part? It came from an eternal God.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
              DoubleScorpionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              It came about as a way for people with differences to live together somewhat peacefully. It is how non-family related societies are built.

            2. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              That wasn't the point of the question.

            3. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              The necessitiy to survive.



              Some things do not require someone to set any standards.



              All humans, as any species, are, NATURALLY, similar.



              Abject nonsense.

          2. Druid Dude profile image61
            Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Where did you learn that? Where did they learn it? I ask this enough, I'll bet they learned it in church.

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Learned what? That the only reason to do good is to ensure your salvation?

              I disagree. I believe the judeo christian heritage has given us the basis for the way we judge right from wrong, but these  values didn't simply come from a religious concept. They are essential elements  you would want to instill as a goal to aspire to in the citizens of a peaceful society. Would they exist without  Christianity? Yes. Without religion? We'll never know. But I think there is ample evidence that they can exist without religion and without the assumption that the only reason to do it is to get into heaven.

    5. qwark profile image59
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Minstrel:

      How long have you lived on this planet earth?

      Lets just take it from the days of Moses, oh, 3200-3400 yrs ago.

      Do ya remember those days? I know ya've studied the "Pentateuch."

      let me just remind ya of those good ole days in Egypt under the rule of the strict and powerful "Pharaohs" and then on to Old Mesopotamia.

      Now fast forward thru Rome, Constantine, the disgustingly cruel and deadly "Dark Ages," the Renaissance, the age of "Enlightenment" and on to today.

      Are ya following me?

      I will now quote you:

      "Being motivated by heavenly rewards keeps us unselfish and loving on earth."

      Pls give me a time during the past 3 thousand or so years of recorded human history that man has been "unselfish and loving?"

      Or did you arrive recently from another planet and miss all that fun?

      Tell ya what, since yer a "newbie" on Earth, we've created a site we call "Google" that'll bring ya right up to date on all that you've missed concerning human history.

      I'm being "unselfish and loving" and offering you the help you seem to need to bring ya right up to date on all your concerns.

      See, there's a whole world of information available to ya out there that that book of fairytales: the bible, hasn't/doesn't cover.

      I'm an "unselfish and loving" man who has offered you help in your search for enlightenment.

      I hope your visit here on Earth will bring you closer to understanding universal reality.

      Thumbs up! Good luck...smile:

      Qwark

      1. The Minstrel profile image80
        The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you for your kind, condescending words. I feel the love. Bless you.

        1. qwark profile image59
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Being the kind, generous, unselfish and loving man I am, no problem! No  problem at all! Anytime!  smile:

          Qwark

      2. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well, Qwerk. You just stumbled onto why GD might be a little ticked off at us. We certainly messed up the place.

        1. qwark profile image59
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Druid:
          I'd love to consider that statment, but since my imagination cannot conjur up this god thing you speak of I just have to reply, respectfully,... if that's what you believe, NP...smile:
          Qwark

    6. profile image0
      Motown2Chitownposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Minstrel, while I believe in heavenly reward, I think our reasons for being unselfish and loving on Earth are because that's what Jesus did, not simply for the reward that awaits us in Heaven.  There are those who don't believe who are unselfish and loving as well.  They may or may not receive rewards on Earth.  Frankly, those who choose to be unselfish and loving rarely receive rewards at all.  The difference between the believer in heavenly rewards and one who does not believe in them is what they choose to about with the LACK OF REWARDS on Earth.  Do they continue to do good unselfishly or do they give up because they aren't getting anything back?  I think that's the real question. 

      Just a thought.

      1. The Minstrel profile image80
        The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        All right, the first valid comment on my forum topic. I agree. We serve unselfishly because we follow the example of Jesus. However, the idea of eternal reward or heaven does have motivational qualities. It actually has more motivational qualities than we think. Even Jesus for the joy set before him endured the shame of the cross. He was motivated out of heaven. When trial and tribulation hit us like a freight train, our eternal reward in heaven takes on greater weight. Bless you Motown2chitown!!!!

        1. profile image0
          Motown2Chitownposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you for the blessings, Minstrel!  smile  I think the issue of communication may be difficult for some of the others on the forum because you say that Jesus was motivated out of Heaven for joy, and that it was for joy that He endured the shame of the cross.  I would disagree only in saying that He was motivated by love (sort of in agreement with Cagsil). 

          I can say this much of trial and tribulation - I have endured some doozies in my time, and in all honesty?  I sometimes lost sight of any sort of heavenly reward, and was only able to press on because of love.  smile  I've even had to press on during those moments when I've lost faith altogether and wondered if it wasn't all a big cosmic joke.

          I appreciate your openness and very pleasant response!  Don't be discouraged in your own belief by others' disbelief.

          smile

    7. Haunty profile image86
      Hauntyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It's misleading to motivate yourself with heaven's reward, because then you are doing what you're doing for the sake of heaven. God really hates that. wink

    8. profile image0
      IEsMedicalposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Minstrel, it's me intimatevolution.  As you know I loved your hub about Atheist participation in forums, and I'm always up for a good theological discussion.  So with that all written, where is the discussion here?  I mean seriously- there isn't an open-ended question to discuss here.  What you have written holds true for anyone.

      You do not have to harbor a religious faith, to own these characteristics.  See what I'm saying?  Anyone can live a life this way, and thus have jealously, greed, pride, or whatever destination that is getting in the way of someone being righteous. (Righteous to that of God's gifts.)  And what does that all mean anyways?  Whose to say that those characteristics are wrong?  A medieval monk or Catholic Pope?

      Is our God not a jealous God?
      Is our God not a selfish God?
      Yes, he is.  So what does that mean for us?  Are we not to be Christ-like?  Selfish in the way we happen to be expected to devote our lives to Christ, and to his discipleship. Right? 

      I'm fiercely competitive about Christ.  Aren't you?  I compete with other religions, trying to live my life according to Christ.  Christ was competitive, was he not?  Competitive with the Jewish leaders?  Pilot thought so, or he would have never made it a competition.

    9. Apostle Jack profile image59
      Apostle Jackposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      As well as on earth.The best is yet to come,and come it shall.All things was PREDESTINE to be fulfill in and at its appointed time.And it shall not be late.

  2. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    What a great idea!

    Deny your only life, because if you do, after you die you will have a better one. lol Sure, that makes sense! lol

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
      DoubleScorpionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You know...for the amount of people who claim to believe that idea...very few if any actually do it...

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        One only needs to look at the expensive toys in the church car park to agree with that. smile

        1. The Minstrel profile image80
          The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The American form of Christianity – the consumer type – does not paint a good picture. I'm talking about the Christianity of the first century church and the few that minister in that same truth. Whatever the case, we are all motivated by reward. I'm just saying the earthly type, so prevalent in the church today, is misguided and leads to strife and in some cases, war.

          1. recommend1 profile image72
            recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            AAAAhhhhh !  Another christian who is the only type of REAL christian.  Quick!  send for Brenda !

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol Good idea, perhaps we will witness a fight over some point of doctrine that will get the "holier than thou" set on the job squabbling over who has the right god, as they always do eventually. lol

              1. recommend1 profile image72
                recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                And don't forget the pointless quotes listings big_smile

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Ah yes! The pointless endless repetition of the scriptures, that everyone already knows off by heart, but can't agree on. smile

                  1. profile image0
                    brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    All the scriptures are agreed on, that they are inspired by God.
                    Math is wonderful but i did not do calculus in grade 5.
                    The scriptures contain an unlimited depth, instructions for the babe in christ and the elderly. Biblically there is both milk and meat in the word. As christians progress and grow in God they are able to digest sturdier foods and they leave the old food behind. If christians do not see the scriptures the same way it because they are at different levels of understanding. There is nothing wrong with this. Sometimes, however,  instead of realizing the deeper depths they adamantly stay with the knowledge they have, never increasing, even eventually to be purporting that they have studied themselves in one side of the bible and out the other; because they did not progress they slid backward. To not move forward is to stagnate and stagnation is subject to a backward motion as all others pass by.
                    But all Christians agree on the basics. Jesus is Lord and God exists. salvation is key and holiness is important, etc.
                    Also i give the example of a puzzle. One person is working on the puzzle in the lower left hand corner another in the upper right and someone is putting together the pieces in the middle. One forms the flowers in a field, another the clouds and the person in the middle, a boat. Do they all see the same thing? Are their problems the same? Is their information the same? No, no and no. Their parts of the puzzle (equation) are different. God bless them.

              2. The Minstrel profile image80
                The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                It's funny. If we make an observation it automatically causes other to make a judgment on you. I don't boast about being a great Christian, but I have met real ones, who, even though imperfect, live a good and true life.

                You make observations and laugh at the squabbling between humans who say they are Christian. Maybe they are. Maybe they're not. Who gives a flying rip any way? It comes down to you, God, and how you live this life. Who cares about the others? Oh yeah, you don't believe in God. It matters not. Life goes on whether you believe or not. It's all step of faith.

                1. The Minstrel profile image80
                  The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  We all make a choice on the road we want to travel on.

                2. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Inclusive statements such as the title of this thread are the problem.

                  You make a statement that assumes their is a heaven, an afterlife, a god and can't support a word of it. smile

                  No god/s no heaven, no hell, just belief in a 2,000 year old re-written book of hearsay that was penned by a bunch of sexist racist old men.

                  Campers of their day.
                  It's mythology my friend, and pretty sick mythology at that.
                  The biblical god makes Zeus look like mother Teresa! (Who is on record denying her faith by the way)
                  An honest and decent woman!

                  1. profile image0
                    brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I guess you missed the word heaven in the title. It was a short sentence and i thought you might have perceived this short sentence correctly. The key word is heaven, which most people, except you apparently, would naturally think... oh a christian thread... CHRISTIAN... so your mooing post about non christian theology is really completely out of place in a thread that to 99.9% of the hub community and the world maybe even, is markedly Christian oriented.
                    Do you talk of gardening in the car mechanics forum lol hilarious stuff!

  3. Disturbia profile image61
    Disturbiaposted 6 years ago

    If the afterlife is so wonderful, why do we mourn death?  Why is suicide a mortal sin?  Why do we punish those who kill?  We should all embrace death, pray for it, celebrate it, and rejoice when people die because they are now in a better place.  It doesn't make sense, and it never will.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I guess if it were true, their would be no people left!

      I imagine ALL parents would be baptizing their children then "sending them to god" as one American religionist did recently to save them from this life's miseries.

      1. The Minstrel profile image80
        The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Eternal motivations lead to a good life in the here and now. It's not checking out of reality, but checking into reality.

      2. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Ahhh. The evidence that the "church" is as mystified about it as the rest of us...except those few who are so sure that something in this universe actually ceases to exist.  " How can you understand heavenly things, when you can't even understand earthly things?" Physical science will tell you that everything gets re-cycled. Your body falls to dust, but it remains. You dehydrate, yet your water remains...two out of three says the real you is hangin' around here somewhere! Hmmm...under a rock? Could be. Where the heck are you after you die? I know where you were before birth, conception. Could the secret lie in that squiggly little double helix? Long journey, if so.

        1. The Minstrel profile image80
          The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Wow! All the great forum skeptics are here! Earnestshub, Cagsil, Beelzedad, Recommend1, Disturbia, Druid Dude, and everyone else I didn't mention. Hey, again, I am mentioning a truth. We are all motivated by some kind of reward. Yes, there are those momentary lapses when we do things out of just pure love for someone. But even that doesn't last unless there is an eternal motivation. God's love is eternal and very motivating. Why do you look at God as some evil dictator in heaven? Why the unbelief?

          1. Beelzedad profile image61
            Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Perhaps, but the rewards you are looking for are entirely self-centered as everything you do in this life is motivated for that reward.



            How sad it is for anyone to believe that, but it would stand to reason if all you're interested in is rewarding yourself.



            Because, that is exactly how he acts. smile

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              "How sad it is for anyone to believe that, but it would stand to reason if all you're interested in is rewarding yourself."

              As if you're not.

              I believe someone is attempting to act righteous and holier than others.

              Even considering his disbelief...

              smile

          2. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I can only answer for myself, but may not, as I have been on these threads for almost 3 years now and it is old hat.

            You have ignored the point I made about your assumptive title.

            1. The Minstrel profile image80
              The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I am making the assumption that God exists just as you have made the assumption that God doesn't exist. It's all a step of faith. Also, we live in America and I have the right to post and get people riled up. It makes for  good forum discussion or rant; however, you want to look at it. Neutral positions make for crappy debate. Extreme positions cause the best and even the worse to come out of people. I believe in my position. Just as you believe in your position. Is that wrong? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am wrong in my forum statement? You gave and are giving your opinion. That's all.

              1. Beelzedad profile image61
                Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, but you would have to use that argument for everything that was invisible, for example, one makes the assumption leprechauns exist and one makes the assumption they don't exist.

                In both cases, the one who makes the assumption that something does in fact exist must demonstrate their assumption is valid.

                Faith then becomes useless as a tool for demonstration purposes.

                smile

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  No one needs to demonstrate anything.

                  Faith is exactly the opposite of proof.

                  If you want proof, search for yourself, and quit expecting others to give you handouts.

                  Just because I say there is gold in California does not mean I need to prove it to you.

                  The gold is there. If you want proof, go look yourself.

                  smile

          3. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Mentioning truth? You'd be lucky if you actually knew a truth or could see past yourself long enough to recognize a truth.
            Actually, you'd be wrong. Not a surprise.

    2. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The point of the afterlife is not to extinguish this life. Cessation in this life ends the work that God needs to do. No one lives up to Gods standards fully, especially the UNsaved, although they all think they do lol. Gods ways take a full lifetime to achieve which is a beautiful thing. To kill oneself is to end the work that God would do. And to end ones life to achieve the afterlife is mocking both God and yourself. How do you know you were good enough or that Gods work was finished. As far as this life teaches, if one dies before completion of a test paper the grade drops drastically. And again, killing yourself to live eternally is not loving God therefore breaking the number one commandment hence reduced reward - oh yah.

  4. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Everyone is motivated by reward? That's broad(inclusive).

    Apparently, YOU are motivated by reward, but I cannot agree that everyone is motivated by reward. I actually happen to know quite a few people who are motivated by Love(including me).

    Therefore, it becomes apparent that you've not a clue about what you talk about in the first place.

    Please, go learn something would you? hmm

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well, rip my britches! I would have thought you were from that group that believes love is nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain. See? It's not so hard to harbor personal delusions. God lives just around the corner from love. Comes over on Saturdays (7 th day, and all) and swims in the pool.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Love is the only spirituality required for living life. Nothing else, with regards, to spirituality is needed/required. As for the invitation, I'll pass.

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          BY DINGIES! GIVE THAT MAN A BIG FAT STOGIE. I've been fishin' around you how many months? But there is more to the story. Betcha can't geuss what it is, Cag. It is all man, back along the path we've come, and as far into the future as the eye can see. (A LOT FURTHER THAN YOU THINK.)  Peace , Cag. Love ya, man

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            When you can see peace and have the insight to understand the lowest component required to achieve it, let me know. Until then, please do not attempt to claim I am of a closed mind. That would be your second mistake. Your first one would be underestimating my ability.

    2. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      oh the love. lol

  5. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    It's simple enough. Don't confuse myth with reality and you have it in one!

    Down some MMDA then let me know how you see it afterwards. smile

    1. The Minstrel profile image80
      The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Aloha everyone.

  6. Randy Godwin profile image94
    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago

    Remember the thread I started entitled "Who tempted Satan"?  No believer ever gave a realistic answer, as far as I know! The bible is merely a Greek pulp fiction type book based on the mythical characters of Moses and Jesus, among others.  That's all! smile

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly!

      Religious loons have ruined the politics in countries such as America resulting in a country where few are able to express disbelief and keep their jobs!

      I have noticed that the less educated they are the louder they bellow. smile

      1. Randy Godwin profile image94
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Less education is no doubt a requirement, Earnest!  smile

        1. The Minstrel profile image80
          The Minstrelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I guess the more educated ones rant.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            No, the more educated ones don't source their beliefs from 2,000 year old man made myths. smile

            1. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Which books do the more educated ones sourse their beliefs from?  Pray tell!

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Are you serious? Like many others, I have read literally thousands of books, I have all of Jung and the important post Jungians, hundreds of other books relating to the human condition.

                I have read hundreds of books on science, medicine, brain chemistry, religion, engineering, nanotechnology, sentient life forms.... if it is interesting I read about it.

                My granddaughter at fourteen has also read hundreds of books on various subjects, She reads on the bus going to school as well.

                No single lens is illuminating, so many things can be related and assessed when we read widely, the empirical evidence is stacked up by broadening what we understand, which is why scientific theory has to withstand exposure to all the other related disciplines to be considered a valid theory.
                This applies with most things. Most good motocross riders know a fair bit about metallurgy, hydraulics, gas flow and unfortunately ... gravity! smile

                All starts in the mind, even religion. smile

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes I was serious,   Not!    kinda ?

                     Point is ....   we all get our beliefs from a book or books.

                     And we selectively chose which books that we agree with.

                     But anyone jumping a 20' wide gully, and don't make it, discovers all that they need to know about gravity whether they have ever read a book about it or not.

                      Yep; that was a serious question;    NOT?

              2. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                From anything more than one source would be more intelligent don't you think? smile

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yep,  I agree!    I have read many book in my life time.
                  Any more,  with my eyesight ...    more than 15 minutes puts me to sleep.

                     Edit  ..  I have to come back and insert a f and a s quite often cause I have a lazy f and s on the key board,  so when I miss it; please orgive me.   Just cause you can if YA want to. 
                  see it happened again.  Oh well

  7. secularist10 profile image91
    secularist10posted 6 years ago

    "Man is motivated by reward."

    Not exactly. Man is motivated by a number of things; sometimes one is motivated by a reward for themselves, sometimes a reward for someone else, sometimes not a reward at all, but rather just an instinctual urge.

    "Being motivated by heavenly rewards keeps us unselfish and loving on earth."

    Incorrect. The desire for a heavenly reward for oneself makes one selfish--precisely because it is a heavenly reward that will accrue to oneself. In other words, one is pursuing whatever goal on earth for selfish purposes. Thus, one is fundamentally selfish.

    "Heavens blessings are inexhaustible."

    This is simply an opinion.

    "Earthly reward systems breed competition, jealousy, and selfishness."

    As we have now seen, heavenly reward systems can also easily breed competition, jealousy and selfishness. Moreover, not all earthly reward systems breed these things. For instance, capitalist economic systems obviously rely on competition and selfishness, but capitalist countries also have a high degree of cooperation and unselfishness in them. Families cooperate with each other, people give to charity all over the capitalist world, etc.

  8. Spirit Whisperer profile image81
    Spirit Whispererposted 6 years ago

    Believing something doesn't make it true. No matter how many people share a belief it still doesn't make it true. Everyone once believed the world was round and they even burned people at the stake for even questioning that belief. While it is fun to share beliefs it is strange to imagine that beliefs are facts. When people talk about their beliefs as if they are facts then you have a serious problem!

  9. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    OP ...    Life is one big test for future reward in heaven.

       ME

       Many Christians believe that "If we live life correctly then we are rewarded with an afterlife".
     
       First off ...  That sounds as if our spiritual everlasting soul comes into being when our Moma gave birth to this physical body. ???   This would mean that our Moma is the creator of souls wouldn't it? 
       That question isn't as shallow minded as some would want Ya to think!
       But come on with the one liners.

       Another popular term ...  "The After Life". 
    That makes it sound as if this physical life Was, Is, and is going to be the Main Event.
       I think that the WAS and the Going To Be is the Main event!
    And "This" experience is the after and the before which is truly of little consequence. That is; if we can look at this life from a broader point of view.

      I do believe in that which has come to be called God.
    And when this physical body dies, the life force that was within it, will return from where it came.

       Sooo   If this God chooses to shorten the party for a few million people, bringing those life forces home early ; and who are we to say if it was early?   So !

       A proper balance between birth and death has to remain constant, you would think?  Wouldn't YA.
        IF nobody ever died ........?
        ....  after some point in time;  there would have to be an end of coming into being;  just because we do not go back to where we came from.  Now that is selfish if Ya think about it? The end of the state of becoming.  Cause nobody wants the cycle to continue.
      Now that would be sad.

    1. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Why is it that nobody want to comment on the simplest of statements which require simple answers?

          If we can not over intelectualize something;  we don't know what to do with it?   ....   run or your lie!   

          I there is nothing to argue about?   I don't want to discuss it!!!!!!    period !

          Ask yourself  "WHY?"

      1. recommend1 profile image72
        recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        There is no real argument here.  The life-force is only energy and is part of the energy that we see or recognise as matter or physical things.  Of course we go back in the pot, and of course we can then become a part other things as the Buddhists believe, everything is recycled, that is the nature of energy and matter.

        Thinking that the self is more important than any other part of the universe of energy and matter is so patently ridiculous I can't even be bothered to laugh.

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I have to agree.   I laffed for a long time.  but in old age we run out of air.   Much easier just to contimplate ....  In the 60s it was our navel that we contimplated,  ha!   then we move onto more serious things.  Then;   when we become even more out of breath we discover that there never was anything more serious than our navel.

          1. recommend1 profile image72
            recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think you have it young Jerami !

            1. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you. 

                 We are never so confused than when we are full of ourselves.

                 This also causes constipation and hemeroids...   I think!  but I have no verafiable proof.

                 It gotta be written someplace in some book though; I would think;  cause it just sounds so true.   At least to me.

              1. recommend1 profile image72
                recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                This is kinda written in many eastern paths to self enlightenment  that I will distort a little here : It is basically a way to the realization of our place in the universe where we are unique and beautiful but unimportant to anyone or anything, except to ourselves big_smile

                The religionists do kinda the same thing except they think they are more important than the whole universe and dissapear up their own rear-ends.

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  That is funny,   sad;  but funny, and true! ... except that this is a human trait that we are all born with.   An obsticle that we are suposed to overcome and not embrace.

 
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