I would think it would be irrelevant to you. You don't believe in God.
Atheist are typically more obsessed with God than anyone else is.
It's a numbers game, which you, as a believer don't have access to. Therefore, I don't expect you or any other believer to understand.
Why don't you have access? Is something you should seriously consider asking yourself.
It is probably a way of assessing what they believe in and in putting a side of the 'coin' on the discussion 'table' so to speak that believers wouldn't probably see, if having grown up in a religious family or have come to religion through personal growth.
I'm not an athiest, as that requires as much certainty as being the follower of one of the currently popular religions does. However, the interest in God for non-believers should not be surprising to you. Religion comes from the belief in god, and there are lots of religions whose interests do not lie soley in the belief in god. Religions seek to influence laws and "guide" cultures as a natural extension of the "understanding" they get from having guidance from a super natural being or other magical entity.
So, as a non religious person, I am very interested in keeping up with what the god-followers are doing because they often want to dictate, limit or affect what I and others get to do, despite my not sharing their beliefs. In short, they frequently wish to impose their beliefs on my life.
Of course I am interested. I'd be a fool not to be.
There are about 2 Billion Christians on this planet, I used to be one of them until I read the Bible and really started to think critically about what I'd been taught to believe.
The reason I debate with Christians and talk about Christian topics is that I used to be a Christian, I am familiar with Christian theology, beliefs, mythology and scripture. As such I believe I can add to the discussion and perhaps even help people relinquish irrational beliefs that harm on both the individual and societal level.
Just wanted to add that this is a ridiculous and stupid question. It's like asking a recovering drug addict why they fight against drug addiction. Religion hurts people and holds back society, to escape from it and not fight against isn't even an option as far as I'm concerned.
I thank Atheist want to have their cake and eat it too.I have talk to many and each one have a different idea about what an Atheist is.I see total confusion in what they and do as far as principals is concern.
Atheism is not a belief or a religion so there are no rules about what an atheist should think. Each non-believer looks at the world and comes to his or her own conclusions. So you're right, you'll find a variety of views among atheists and that's exactly as it should be.
Sad lives with nothing to do except try to disrupt believers from communicating their beliefs.
Now I shall pop over to look at your hubs!
Quite the contrary, actually. Clear-minded people who hate seeing others being intolerant or making unsupported, sweeping claims.
I'm more of an agnostic myself, and I have many Christian friends, but they're level-headed and don't try to shove their faith down other people's throats. I have every respect for their right to hold their belief.
However, I am disdainful of people who believe in something mindlessly, and who refuse to debate or justify their beliefs in a rational manner.
We did used to have one or two Hubbers who deliberately baited the religionists and I always thought that was unnecessary and unkind. But leaving those aside, I've seen far more fights started by believers than non-believers in the religious forums.
For example, this is a character assassination.
Why do Christians fear atheists expressing their opinions? The whole point of a discussion, is that people of differing views can debate. If Christians only want to hear from people who share their beliefs, then this is very limiting, and boring.
I like differing views, but not the character assassination that goes on within these forums. I see a lot of the threads as just anger against God or the idea of God. It gets pretty nasty.
The Minstrel, I understand the point you're addressing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with opinions, but it's always a respecful way to express an opinion. It will be more cilvilized for an adult to disagree and refrain from attacking the christian's faith. Enjoy your Memorial Day Event.
Character assassination is forbidden on these forums, you will get banned. Hence, you're probably talking about something else that isn't forbidden here, like the debate of religious beliefs which perhaps you have erroneously and suspiciously claimed were character attacks.
except many here mistake a challenge of their belief system as a personal attack
I like hearing different views other than my own just like I like a few rasins in my oatmeal; but all raisens and no oatmeal gets VERY boring. YAWN!
You of course could just as easily hear different opinions from yours in a 100% Christian site, (as could I)
But though I have no objection to considered opinion that differs, I do find that those secularists who ONLY wish to disrupt matters are boring to say the least.
Yes John, that is what I as talking about also.
Some people believe that their only purpose in life is to be a fire extinguisher, putting out any conversation about any opinion other than their own.
They can put out a conversation with too mny rasins!
I like raisins and oatmeal, but character assassination is like rancid milk. Please understand, I'm not the least offended, but frustrated that we can't talk about the issues. Yes, I am here to share my point of view and even convince. I want to hear more point of views to tell me why I am wrong. I don't mind agreeing to disagree.
Character assassination goes both way on this forum. This forum is great for posting your knowledge, thoughts or opinions on the subject at hand. Attempting to convince others should only be based on a strong PRO or CON arguement for the subject debated. It seems that many christians take a personal offense when their religion (not the person) is brought into question. And the same can be said of the atheists when they are told that because of a difference of beliefs, they are evil and eternal torment is the only thing they are fit to receive. Every day I see those who "claim" to be christian that live a life that is not very Jesus like to say it nicely, while I see those who are atheist living a life that would be on par with Jesus himself. All to often we attempt to make ourselves look better by putting others down or elevating ourselves unjustly above them. If we spent more time ensuring that we were living correctly, we would be able to spread our message by our actions and not just our words. When others see us living good and receiving good things, they will automatically want to emulate us and how we live.
Character assassination is used often.
But I do attempt to attack the idea rather than the person.
But quite often the words can be applied personally even if not initially intended.
Things can almost certainly always be taken the wrong way.
DoubleScorpion, I have to say that this is incredibly well said! I wish we could all come to understand the walking v. talking thing. You've said it well, friend.
The Minstrel, I don't know that you are wrong about anything?
I see some things that the most devout Atheist say that I do agree with. And some things that the most devout Christians say that I disagree
And the opposit is also true.
If Christians are to believe that the bible was inspired of God ....... ? Then as children of God we would not only hear the voice but understand it as well.
If it is a mystery to us, we then must be holding onto a false premise of some kind.
Kinda like an algebra problem. We may understand the question, and we may know the answer; But we are not a mathmatition unless we understand the process as to HOW we arrive at the conclusion that we have reached.
This is the thing that an atheist is helping with. He is attempting to help us understand HOW we came to the conclusons that we have reached. They just don't it.
Some of our beliefs are true though we do not know how we reasoned them. and some are false for the same reason.
If All the pieces of the puzzle do not fit together, that usually means that at least one of the pieces is where it doesn't belong.
But an Atheist will say that the entire puzzle is defective.
When we begin our quest for truth based upon a false premise; we will never see our target in the cross hairs.
This is why some people don't find what they are looking for, even though it is standing right there in front of them.
Christianity is interesting. Would you rather be boring?
Funny, because I see atheist and believers doing that in roughly equal numbers.
Yes I agree, a different opinion should be kinda like fresh air to an open flame.
If one were only afforded the opportunity to preach to the converted, what good is that? Atheists are in need of the Good News. That has been the christian project all along. Personally, in decidedly non-christian fashion, I would rather they recede into their own darknesses. Something wicked therein waits.
Thank you very much Druid Dude. I am so glad you are so open about your character, as a person.
And, people wonder why the world is in a bad way?
It's people who have no moral character. The irony is that 60% or more are religious or have religious beliefs.
I don't remember if I read it long long ago or came to the conclusion myself??? I've been saying for many decades that we must be very very careul the things that we hate and how we go about hateing it or else we become it or something far worse
I find that atheists are often much the same as religious believers because they wish to convert others to their beliefs!
Yep. If you can't PROVE there is a God, how in the heck can you PROVE there isn't one?
So why commit to either one? Pascal's Wager and the ensuing arguments did most of the heavy lifting on this conversation.
We don't know. We can hope on one hand and reason on the other, trying to find balance, or we must discard one and cling stubbornly to the other, calling that "truth" and "faith." That seems silly to me.
I find at Facebook I get really heated arguments between believers and non-believers in some threads I start! I find it all quite silly but tend to leave them to it unless it becomes insulting!
To be fair Shades, I don't think atheists set out to prove that God doesn't exist. They just see that there's no proof for a God and therefore don't believe in it - specifically the versions religions provide, as they're filled with contradictions.
Could God exist? Sure, so could the invisible pink unicorn in outer space. But just because they're possibilities hardly gives enough merit to believe in them.
Well first of all, it's an online public forum, so you really can't stop people from participating in it whether you like it or not.
Secondly, I think there's a lot of truth on both sides, but neither really wants to listen to the other, and they both refuse to see the contradictions that lie on both sides of the argument, as it's more about one side submitting defeat to the other rather than having a true philosophical discussion. Hence, you often see atheists insulting christians and vice versa. This ultimately leads to banning from the hubpage staff; which has caused many of our hubber friends to abandon forums lately.
I know some atheists on here tell me that the point of debating here isn't to convert believers into atheists but rather try to convince people that are in between to not become believers. While others have told me they feel it's their personal obligation to try and point out the hypocrisies in religion and challenge religious beliefs, to make the world a safer place. Although one could point out a hypocrisy in that statement, as the atheists that say that do have problems with christians passing their beliefs to others, yet they feel it's okay when they pass their beliefs instead.
Look, I'm not here to pick sides, and point the finger at anyone here specifically, nor am I calling out any particular group. However, I do feel the arguments here in religious forums is ridiculous. Personally, I think it would be best if everyone tried to respect each other's beliefs, but I know that's not going to happen, as it's about making the other side admit they're wrong rather than openly discussing anything.
The way the religious forums roll, is the way religionists intend them to. Flogging religion like a spam site.
They open threads with titles that in and of themselves accuse, belittle and threaten non believers.
I am happy to listen to the arguments of others, support my own arguments with peer reviewed evidence and remain easy going about it all as would many other non believers.
The "Are you still beating your wife" threads are the cause of most of the disharmony here.
There's a thread called "Are you still beating your wife?" Wow, I must've totally missed that one. Are you serious? Wow, whoever posted that thread must be one screwed up individual if you ask me.
I just read this whole thread and...Jeez Oh Man I'm so proud of how everyone is being Nice for a change!We should start a virtual campfire and sit around it singing kumbaya and burning wieners!Anybody got a virtual guitar?
Some Christians will not allow atheists to post any sort of comment on one of their hubs. There is one hubber on here, who has only a few comments on hubs that were written many months ago, and only comments made by Chrisitans who are in complete agreement with them. I have tried to post a comment, which is not rude, but politely disagrees with their point of view. My comments have been deleted, as have those of other hubbers, who also disagree. I truly believe that such fundamentalist Christians are fearful of opinions which differ to their own, because their minds cannot comprehend that there are many different beliefs in the world. Atheists enjoy a good debate, whilst many Christians and those of other religions are so convinced that they own the one and only truth that only people working for Satan could possibly disagree with them.
Thank you everyone for sharing your opinions. I have learned how to write more clearly and sensitively by just listening to your comments. I don't expect us all to sit around the camp fire and sing "Amazing Grace" or "Kumbaya" together. That would be weird. A little tension is good in a forum like this. However, thanks again for all your insight and honest view point. Mahalo nui loa.
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