Gen1:26 "Let US make man in OUR image"
- Baileybearposted 12 years ago
0Some don't - which surprises me actually - but I think with all the denomination splits over history, the original beliefs haven't been passed down like the were in earlier Christian history. Most mainline Christian denominations still believe in the Trinity. More of the smaller, "non-denominational" groups tend not to from what I'm seeing.
Nope, not a bit. I lost a wide circle of Evangelical friends when I became Catholic, but I did it because I truly believed the Catholic Church (as it SHOULD be, not necessarily as it IS sometimes) was where the fullness of Christian truth could be found. I also know the teachings of the Church, so I don't feel ill equipped to discuss misconceptions with people.
That was pretty much my assumption as laid out in the second part of my post. I'm not a bible scholar but have studied it extensively privately and under instruction by very well educated teachers. You answer was actually quite helpful I think.
When was this "beginning" where nothing - including god - existed? What was there before this beginning? Was god there before the beginning? If so - there was not a beginning.
Therefore you have just separated god and his word with one word. Beginning.Jimmy boy - you are clueless. So there is something outside the Universe huh? Can you show it to me please?
Nothing exists outside existence. How funny that you think it does. Even funnier are the arcane language references. Speak some more ancient Yiddish at me to show how clever you are. Tell me about the 800 year old man again as well. I like that one.
Come on - you are making some outlandish claims here. Back it up with something.
- Emile Rposted 12 years ago0
Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Too your way of thinking a sun is needed to define time, but clearly there is time without a sun because we know the sun was created on the third day. Are you saying also, there was no first and second day?
Day is the translated word to describe a 'process of time', not whether the sun is shining or not.
Please try to remain calm, and have a nice process of time
So this is your source for all the defences you make of scripture!
From your source:
"Thus will the Christian scholar be able to retort much of what is used against the authority of Holy Scripture upon the objectors themselves, and to show that on their principles anything almost might with equal certainty he affirmed respecting the force and bearing of any passage. And even in cases in which absolute certainty is hardly attainable, a knowledge of the Scripture in the original will enable the defender of God's truth to examine what is asserted, and it will hinder him from upholding right principles on insufficient grounds. Inaccurate scholarship has often detracted from the usefulness of the labours of those who have tried, and in great part successfully, to defend and uphold the authority of Scripture against objectors."
Hardly looking to learn anything is it?nice assumption but a bit retarded. it is A source i use but not for ALL defenses. A dictionary of original language is invaluable to any Christian.
This reference is used to show the two different words for 'light'. This is not a theologians perspective, duh, hence the word lexicon.
Let me define lexicon for you: a wordbook or dictionary, especially of Greek, Latin, or Hebrew.
AS you can have somebody else point out for you, the word lexicon is printed in the blue strip across the top.
Did you learn a new word today?
Bailey, below is an official explanation from some research scholars:
Question : God said: "Let us make man in our image . . ." (Genesis 1:26) and "Come, let us go down, and there confound their language" (Genesis 11:7). To whom does the "us" refer?
Answer: Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are proof texts of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, "And God created man in His image" (Genesis 1:27). In this verse the Hebrew verb "created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the next verse by, "And they created man in their image." Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the divine appellation 'Elohim, to indicate the all-inclusiveness of God's attributes of authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to speak of himself as if he were a plurality. Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give your counsel what we shall do" (2 Samuel 16:20). The context shows that he was seeking advice for himself' yet he refers to himself as "we" (see also Ezra 4:16-19).
However, there is some real question among scholars now, to this explanation. It is true Royals used "US" in their speech. It could also be a slip of the tongue and a dead give away that Persons of High station wrote it, after the fact! Because if you think about it , if indeed God said it, he would not need or use the word us! He was above Royalty supposedly, so it is in question.
the problem is every religionist will chime in with the known reason, and it is all un proven speculation.
It is another hole in the Story, that’s why we are all told it has to be by faith to believe it.
Question boldly and ask and research it all for yourself.Unfortunately, those are exactly the kind of words you don't want to propagate as they can so easily be used by anyone to commit any act they want.
The idea is you SHOULD try to figure things out on your own rather than just listening to voices in your head. It's called thinking, and it's exactly what the brain was made to do, not just to be a receiver/transmitter.
Just out of curiosity, and I mean no offense whatsoever, but what exactly is your pre-knowledge, as you put it? Are you a Bible scholar or seminarian? A priest or a pastor. You speak with an authoritative tone that I find to be of interest.
I might just offer the advice that you don't make the presumption that you're dealing with uneducated folks who have never done any research about what they're saying. If you, yourself, are young in your research, then perhaps you do, in fact, have much to learn from others who may not be. Certainly, we appreciate your input (at least I do) but be careful about being "blunt and to the point" because it often comes off as sounding very condescending and arrogant.
That said, I'm sure you'll enjoy the discussions, as well as contributing a great deal to them.
The problem, and difference is that the GOD in the book is the one making the threats and commanding the wars.
lone77star, I find you much too rational for a discussion in the religious forums...lol
Beautifully said.
Courage, I could not disagree more. The text says expressly, "There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. No mystery will be kept from us if we ask. I see no reason why Creator would hide anything of his nature from a creation he fashioned to express everything he is.
He did not hide the stars, the worlds, his compassion, anger, love, devotion, covenant, even his ruach from us, at any time. I think humans are misled to believe that just because He is omnipotent, means He is withholding. Certainly, we are not Creator in that respect, nor ever will be. Even with 100% understanding of Him, would not change that fact that we are his manifestation and He will always be the Creator.
It is for us to know, so we may understand fully those things given freely to us by Him.
James.jacharless, Sorry for the misunderstanding.
You are right, and I do understand what you are saying. I should have stated that it's not for humans to understand everything about why God does this or that. The bible states that his thoughts is not our thoughts and his ways is not our ways. I agree that God reveals himself to us when we seek him, and read his word.Then, why would a believer try to emulate their gods? How can you be just like Jesus if his ways are not your ways. That makes no sense.
I agree with you both and in a way you are both correct (IMO)
God did and does reveal,but He also remembers that we came from dust.
I tend to think like any loving parent ,God doesnt burden us with information that we cannot handle either.
As parents, we dont expect or demand a 5yr old for example to understand or comprehend in the same was as a 30yr old.
All Revelation will be revealed in His Time
Your majik book makes these claims dj. Have you even read this bible you keep pushing? And you wonder why you have trouble understanding basic concepts. I suggest widening your reading experiences a little. As it seems you have not even bothered to read the bible.
Yet, the 5yr old grows up to comprehend what the 30yr old comprehends.
Besides, as humans, we can handle any information, so what information can't we handle?And can't faith be confidence that's pure and perfect, like that of Peter when he walked on water? It was only doubt that set him to sinking after his first few steps of unreasonable faith.
Such faith, a doubter will never understand, especially when they already know everything, anyway.
Wow, what an insightful reply kiwi.
I love how God set things in his own timing.
I'm not sure if that is just a defeatist attitude to just give up trying or is it a statement of ones decision to not bother thinking? Either way, it really makes no sense, and perhaps, that IS the point, to live your life in blissful ignorance.
Some people choose to live their lives in blissful ignorance, believing without understanding, or believing without looking. Here's lookin' at you, Beeze.
Well, you're certainly not alone in that.
That statement contradicts itself as you appear to know and think what your god knows and thinks.
We are smarter than your god. He has yet to formulate morals and ethics.
'absolute proof?'
Oops! Jstfishinman, you got your figures wrong! Just like the game of Gossip? Genesis 5 pegs Adam at 930, not 964.
But couldn't your interpretation be wrong? Just like your memory of Genesis 5:5?
Look at Genesis 5:2 for a startling clue. Adam is both male and female! Adam is a group! A tribe! The individual Adam may have lived only 40-50 years, while the tribe lived much longer. Don't let blind belief keep you from making discoveries that no one else has ever found.
Guys like E. Guy will never look, because they're omniscient. So, why bother? He knows I don't believe in evolution, even though I do. He's so smart, his intellect is a veritable supernova of reasoning power. He can likely tell me what I'm going to write next. What, E.G. is clairvoyant, too?
If you add up all the years in Genesis with the rest of the historical timeline as Ussher did in his famous 1650 book, you get 4004 BC. But science already proves this is bogus. So, if there is any truth in the Bible, you're not going to find it by looking at the literal. Simple.
With anthropologists finding Homo sapiens to have been around for at least 200,000 years, Genesis is off by a wide margin, unless there were some factor to use to match reality. And wouldn't you know, there are three factors right in Genesis -- right at some of the places where Genesis is at its most enigmatic. The enigma was a red flag for hidden clue.
Why would God give such outrageous protection to a liar and a murderer (Cain)? Simple answer, he didn't? This is part of the clues woven into the story. The mark set upon Cain was simply a number -- the number of perfection (as in God's day of rest -- the perfection of all creation). And the descendant of Cain, Lamech who claimed for himself eleven times the protection received by Cain,... well that's another factor.
What the Bible and God value are life and creation, not retribution and destruction. That's the dead give-away. Genesis 4 is really about life and procreation, giving back life 7 times or 77 times for that given them by their ancestors. The new Genesis timeline is now compatible with those of science. That does not prove anything, scientifically, but it puts the Fundamentalist on the hot seat. All their yapping about science and creationism is a dead issue.
E.G. thinks everything spiritual is garbage, but that's his own blindness. Ego does that. Way to go, E.G.o.I think no such thing. I think the nonsense you spout is garbage. You. Lying for Jesus again I see? I thought that was against the majik book which now says Adam is tribe. Was Moses a tribe as well?
The Genesis timeline is not compatible with science.
Evolution does not need or require a God. In fact - if there was a developmental destination planned - this means you reject everything we know and understand about the process. Therefore you do not believe in evolution - you have just made up your own version to fit your religious nonsense.
Just like you are doing with the bible.
I have looked and investigated. I have been to sweat lodges and on vision quests and past life regressions and had conversations with Leonardo and all sorts of other wonderful "spiritual," places.
All in the comfort of my own head.
You religionists are blind.
The christian concordance explains it thusly: :...our image...: the father, the son and the holy ghost.
Which of course is BS..
qwark
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