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Conservative Christian murders 80+ in Norway

  1. Evolution Guy profile image61
    Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago

    http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/oslo- … or-terror/

    More proof this religion is dangerous to others as well as the people who follow it. sad

    1. jacharless profile image81
      jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The article notes he claimed to quote a philosopher on a single tweet; then, a single posting on Facebook, as a Christian Conservative --yet is a Free Mason, e-sport junkie? Those titles are terribly at odds. Also note an Islamic fundie group initially claimed responsibility and that French Ultraconservative group took notice. So what. Lastly, both those Social Network accounts are reported as being activated on July 17th, "Making their veracity" questionable. It is interesting to note the attack was on the Red-Green Coalition Labour Party camp. An odd thing as the party is pro socialist and controls much of the politics of Norway.

      A lot of that article is speculation. Get the facts before you make that redundant claim. There is no evidence that he was a Christian, less a single FB line. You are pushing propaganda, as usual, and no one is falling for it anymore.

      No wonder why your nonsensical determinism, personal war on Christianity causes so many conflicts.
      sad
      James.

    2. FitnezzJim profile image86
      FitnezzJimposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is nothing quite like mixing up cause and effect to get people all riled up and arguing over nonsense.
      Crazy spans the spectrum.  The crazy that did this just happens to have been (allegedly) a Conservative Christian.  Tomorrows crazy will be related to some other group.

    3. wilmiers77 profile image60
      wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      This so called Christian joined the church and not Jesus Christ. Christianity goes further than "thou shall not kill..." by believing that true believers should love their enemy. This deranged person came straight from hell. He belongs to the devils. All devils can have fun with him for a season.

    4. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sooner or later we are all going to have to accept the fact that it isn't an 'us against them' world.  We are all in this together. The blame for violence lies as much at everyone's feet as the persons that commit it.

      Why is this a growing problem? What is everyone so scared of that they are drawn to hate groups? Where was the community during the months that led up to this attack?

      We are all becoming so sure of our own agendas that we don't take the time to listen and give others the benefit of the doubt that they do have something of value to offer. From everything I have read this guy was radical, but when we allow people to become ostracized we allow violent emotions to fester until they search for an outlet in violent behavior.

      Until we stop fighting and start listening, with an empathetic ear, we'll never see positive change. The violence will only grow. If people had simply reached out to many of the people that have committed these atrocities across the world before the act many of them might have been averted.

    5. Tumbletree profile image62
      Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Right that's the message of every religion in the world, kill kill kill. No one ever kills for science, or country, or profit, or.... Religion is not guilty here, fundamentalism is.

      1. Evolution Guy profile image61
        Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah. No one kills for religion. Never happened. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

        Religion is guilty here. But - you need to defend it because you are a believer and - well - lets face it and be honest. Your religious beliefs are more important than actual people.
        sad

        1. Tumbletree profile image62
          Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Dude, why do you have to be so obtuse! I am not a believer. I just don't say stupid things like, "black people are killers," because a black person kills someone. People kill for food, does that make food a killer? People kill for all kinds of reasons, that does not make the whole category of reason guilty. Religion is a broad category that covers people and teachings that will kill for it and those diametrically opposed to killing for any reason.

          Religion isn't guilty here, Christian fundamentalism and the Atheistic corporations like will teach and manipulate people's beliefs and fears for their own profit are guilty here.

          1. Uninvited Writer profile image84
            Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No, a right wing extremist who called himself a Christian is guilty here.

            1. Tumbletree profile image62
              Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I agree to a point, but a system, for example, a system that teaches people that blacks aren't human, is responsible for the behavior of the people it indoctrinates into this belief system, so if some KKK members shoot a bunch of black, then not only are those members guilty , but so to is the broader belief system. Christian Fundamentalism teaches an ancient and somewhat barbaric belief system- the Old Testament has God telling people to kill each other right and left, it's what Muslim terrorists believe (literally, it's their book too), the conservative media preaches xenophobia, fear and hatred of liberals, and anti-science...all these taken together do influence and promote the kind of actions this man took. He didn't event the ideology that dove him to do this, it was taught to him.

              1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What about Jesus' answer to what is the supreme law of God? The answer was "love God with all of your heart, soul, and body, and love your neighbor as yourself." "On this hangs all other laws."
                Relative to the hardness of the people's heart, the Moses Covenant was an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, and God rolled many heads due to the hardness of hearts. Now we have a much better covenant with more gracious promises. But, for those who hearts are harden and choose to kill Christians, God has given us a right to defend ourselves, and we roll many heads while God is defending His Covenant and the body of Christ.
                Try to kill Christians, and God's wrath shall befall on you. Christians are humble, but not wimps.
                I said all of that to say we are taught the love covenant or the Son Of God Covenant, not to seek and kill nonbelievers. We do have the right to defend ourselves.
                The bible is written unto a supernatural life and is utmost practical in the natural.

              2. aguasilver profile image85
                aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                .

                To alleviate your confusion, the new covenant (i.e. Christian bit)does not teach any killing whatsoever, lots of turning other cheeks and doing unto others, but no killing.

                The new covenant draws reference to the old covenant, but unless something from the old covenant is reinforced in the new covenant, it has no bearing on a Christian walk, so anybody teaching killing has created a corruption of what scripture states, and just like the instructions on your electrical appliance state, failing to follow the instructions or misusing the appliance may cause injury or death.

                Please do not blame Christ, who never preached or allowed for violence or killing.



                I think you meant; "He did not invent the ideology that drove him to this it was taught to him" and again, I doubt his parents taught him to kill 92 people as part of their religious instruction, if they gave him any in the first case.

                Scandinavians in the most part are not very religious.

                The ideology he has acquired is racial hatred and right wing extremism, and from what I have seen he equates what he has done as a good thing, to sacrifice a few to save many, and I can see how he could have confused the sacrificial bit with how Christ died for all, but his error was in not being the sacrifice, but instead sacrificing others, that is very pagan and not to be found in the new covenant.

                Unfortunately for the few folk who get psychotic about life, 2+2 can easily add up very differently that we would see it.

                1. Tumbletree profile image62
                  Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The problem with any fundamentalism is it is fundamentally "wrong." The Bible is not literally true. To teach people that it is is to confuse people's ability to discern truth from fiction, lies, myth; when you do that all kinds of negative consequences come about. When a person believe the Bible is God's reveal word and literally true, they've already believed one falsehood, why wouldn't they believe another?

                  1. aguasilver profile image85
                    aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    You make a statement that you cannot prove, you are entitled to your opinion, but the statement you make is disqualified by your own standards of evidence.

        2. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          He was probably born a catholic
          this sort of thing is up their alley

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well, if so; his younger years were peaceful ones apparently. By the facts, he didn't become violent until after he became a fundamentalist.

          2. SomewayOuttaHere profile image60
            SomewayOuttaHereposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            @ BC (born catholic)  - lol

          3. lizzieBoo profile image78
            lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            What a horrible thing to say.

          4. Jeff Berndt profile image89
            Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, and Protestants never persecuted anybody?

            1. thebrucebeat profile image61
              thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Don't even start Jeff.  It ain't worth the effort.

    6. DoubleScorpion profile image86
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Mark...here is a quote I thought you might enjoy.

      "Fear is the basis of the whole - fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the
      parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand-in-hand."

      - Bertrand Russell

      1. wilmiers77 profile image60
        wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You speak as if nonbelievers aren't the main contributor to violence. Christians have the answers to overcome fear. One is a fool if he claims to have no fear.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I didn't speak anything. I simply posted a Quote that I thought Mark would enjoy.

          1. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            But, in the spirit of...
            Content of hub?

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I would say that quote has something to do with why those who claim to be "christian" do such bad things. But of course that is my opinion.

              1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                A few Christians do bad things because we are all sinners, and some give in to temptation.
                Should I hold a perfect standard to all people? God does. Are we capable of living up to...does trying gave more gains than not trying...
                We are saved by the inward filling of God's Spirit...His Spirit is perfect.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                  DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Which is why I said "those who CLAIM to be "christian" and do bad things"

                  A true christian doesn't sin. Might have been born in sin and sinner until reborn as a christian. Anyone who sins is a sinner. Can't be a sinner and a Christian at the same time. It just doesn't work like that.

                  1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Christians who has been filled with God's Spirit doesn't give in to temptations of the world. This is ideal and perfect. Are any of us perfect at this time? Appears to me that Christianity is a process, a walk with the Lord, pushing into the perfect law of liberty from God. God rewards for trying and trying diligently.

                  2. lizzieBoo profile image78
                    lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    There is such a thing as a bad Christian, look at Henry VIII.  But there is also such a thing as person who calls himself a Christian but has never stopped to think what it means. I think what we really have here is an example of the axiom: "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". What I mean is, power in the hands of the stupid is bound to be problematic.

    7. manlypoetryman profile image69
      manlypoetrymanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Ridiculous heresay...just to back your agenda. The Columbine shooters targeted several Christians...and I'm pretty sure that Timothy McVeigh and the 911 terrorists were not Christians...nor Conservative.But then...you need to make a broad generalization to make a point from your end. So Childish!

    8. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
      Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this
      1. Evolution Guy profile image61
        Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Dear me. Defend the faith at all costs no matter how many insane killers it produces? Wow. So what if some rag is prepared to lie about it? This is why your religion disgusts me so. It produces people like you. sad

        1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
          Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          hahahahahha  Little man, did you even read what you wrote?

      2. 61
        ibneahmadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I accessed the link; following words are noteworthy:


        "Piecing together Breivik's various posts on the Internet, many media reports have characterized the terrorist – who says he was upset over the multiculturalist policies stemming from Norway's Labour Party – as a "right-wing, Christian fundamentalist."

        Yet, while McVeigh rejected God altogether, Breivik writes in his manifesto that he is not religious, has doubts about God's existence, does not pray, but does assert the primacy of Europe's "Christian culture" as well as his own pagan Nordic culture.

        Breivik instead hails Charles Darwin, whose evolutionary theories stand in contrast to the claims of the Bible, and affirms: "As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings. Europe has always been the cradle of science, and it must always continue to be that way. Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I'm not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe."

        seems he is more of a extremist atheist; not a christian.

        1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
          Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Isn't it hilarious how that silly little man calls it "propaganda" when something says what he doesn't like!!!!

          However, if he does like what something says, it's "truth!"

          I wish I could just be all "willy nilly" with the world like that!!!!!!

    9. Zubair Ahmed profile image78
      Zubair Ahmedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think religion has got anything to do with this mans actions.  Just because he say's he is a Christian does not necessarily mean that he follows and practices Christianity as stated in the Bible (funny coming from a Muslim smile ). 

      Muslims have been in the firing line since the end of the cold war especially here in the Western Media, so I know 98% of Muslims, Jews, Hindus or Christians will not actually go and harm others, but unfortunately when the remaining 2% in the fringe who claim to belong in one of these religious groups does something as awful as that in Norway, society points fingers at everyone who follows a particular religion - that is wrong in my view.

    10. wba108@yahoo.com profile image85
      wba108@yahoo.composted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You could also say that poeple who drive cars are dangerous because of the staggering loss of life in car accidents. Or maybe you could say that passion should be outlawed because so many poeple are victims of crimes of passion.

      It should also be noted that in the last 100 years governments that were hostile to religion killed some 100 million poeple ie. communist china and russia, nazi germany, cambodia, Cuba ect.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Is what you're saying that religion does cause a lot of conflicts if millions were killed because of them?

        1. wba108@yahoo.com profile image85
          wba108@yahoo.composted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Freedom in itself is dangerous and costly because poeple are also free to do great harm. But I still think freedom is worth it!

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So does Norway, and have just said so through a government spokesperson on ABC radio. smile

          2. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            People will not likely do great harm when they are free, that makes no sense.

            1. wba108@yahoo.com profile image85
              wba108@yahoo.composted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Why doesn't this make sense? How about a teenager who has the freedom to take the family car out riding with his friends, with the possibility of getting them all killed?

              1. 61
                ibneahmadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Education plus positive self-discipline is essential to save humanity from such occurings.

              2. earnestshub profile image87
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                When children get a drivers licence I contend that most parents worry.

                I know I have, and now worry  for the oldest grandchild and try to drive her rather than have her picked up by friends.

                She will be an licenced driver soon, and typically has bought an old car she can afford, a problem most young people have is not enough money to buy something with eleven airbags like some of the newer cars such as BMW have.

                The only thing I can do about the risk is try to help her become a good driver by teaching her about safety issues and being one of her licensed drivers when she is learning to drive.

                You have to accept that they can die or be injured falling over on the footpath or walking the dog, and be brave. I have never stopped my kids from going out and being with their friends which is the only way I can see that may lessen risk.

        2. aguasilver profile image85
          aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Can't see where Christ featured in 'china and russia, nazi germany, cambodia, Cuba' did I miss the mass changing of faith from secular socialism to faith in Christ?

          Or were you simply trying to be contentious for contentions sake?

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            LOL! Following Christ is only one religion or did you miss that memo?

            1. aguasilver profile image85
              aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yep, that memo never crossed my desk! so let's broaden it, which religions are/were practiced in 'china and russia, nazi germany, cambodia, Cuba'

              Guess Christianity was not one of them, and forget trying to say Hitler was a Christian, he was a Neo-Pagan, nope they were all quasi socialist or communist nirvanas.

              Apologies, but as we are in a thread called

              Religion and PhilosophyChristianity, the Bible and JesusChristian LivingConservative Christian murders 80+ in Norway

              We were talking about Christianity.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Sorry, but that is a safely guarded secret kept under lock and key from Christians prying eyes. We wouldn't want to let them know other religions exist in the world in case they get all riled up again.

                1. aguasilver profile image85
                  aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Who would get riled up! other religions have always existed, shucks I live in Penang, we have the full range on offer here and nobody except the Muslims mind a bit who talks about whatever.

                  You really should get out more, there's a whole world out here that is laid back and contented, and for the most part, we all get along.

                  Are you one of the 12% of Americans who own a passport, have you ever been 'out' or is your whole existence governed by what you are fed locally?

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Nice cheap shot at me, sure, you get along, alright. lol

          2. Tumbletree profile image62
            Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Can't see where Christ featured in Nazi Germany? Excuse me? What religion do you think Nazi Germany was? Why do you think Hitler could rouse a whole nation to hate Jews? Dude, no Jesus didn't drop out of the sky and tell the Nazi's to attack the world, but all the Nazi's were praying and praising Jesus in church every Sunday. Concentration Camp guards still took in there Sunday services to Jesus.

            1. lizzieBoo profile image78
              lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Tumbletree, I'm afraid that's not true. Nazi Germans were anti-religion. Christian Germans who had been forced to join the Hitler youth had to sneak to church and at their peril. Read up on what Hitler had to say about belief in God.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Of course, wherever a "cult of personality" can be established, the other religions will be a threat. It's not just religions that are the threat, many other facets of a society will threaten that cult so they either need to be controlled or eliminated.

                1. lizzieBoo profile image78
                  lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Are you actually saying that Christianity is as much a threat as Nazism?

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It very well could be, but that's not what I said.

                    In order for Nazism to be established with Hitler as the "cult of personality" as it's head, it needed to control or eliminate any threats of establishing it, religion was just one minor threat that had to be dealt with. There were other threats that took precedence and priority over the threat of religion.

              2. VoltaireZ profile image61
                VoltaireZposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Positive Christianity (German: Positives Christentum) was a slogan of Nazi propaganda adopted at the NSDAP congress 1920 to express a worldview which is Christian, confessional, vigorously opposed to the spirit of "Jewish Materialism", and oriented to the principle of voluntary association of those with a common racial-ethnic background.[1]
                Contents
                [hide]

                    1 Theological and doctrinal aspects
                    2 Origins of the idea
                    3 In Nazi ideology
                    4 See also
                    5 Further reading
                    6 Notes

                [edit] Theological and doctrinal aspects

                Adherents of Positive Christianity argued that traditional Christianity emphasized the passive rather than the active aspects of Christ's life, stressing his sacrifice on the cross and other-worldly redemption. They wanted to replace this with a "positive" emphasis on Christ as an active preacher, organizer and fighter who opposed the institutionalized Judaism of his day. At various points in the Nazi regime, attempts were made to replace conventional Christianity with its "positive" alternative.

                Theological and doctrinal differences included:

                    Rejection of Jewish-written parts of the Bible (including the entire Old Testament)
                    Claiming "Aryanhood" and non-Jewishness for Christ
                    The political objective of national unity, to overcome confessional differences, to exterminate Catholicism, and to unite Protestantism into a single unitary Christian national socialist church[2]

                [edit] Origins of the idea
                Part of a series on
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                Positive Christianity grew out of the Higher Criticism of the nineteenth century, with its emphasis on the distinction between the historical Jesus, and the divine Jesus of theology[citation needed]. According to some schools of thought, the saviour-figure of orthodox Christianity was very different from the historical Galilean preacher. While many such scholars sought to place Jesus in the context of ancient Judaism, some writers reconstructed a historical Jesus who corresponded to anti-Semitic ideology. In the writings of such anti-Semites as Emile Burnouf, Houston Stewart Chamberlain and Paul de Lagarde, Jesus was redefined as an "Aryan" hero who struggled against Judaism. Consistent with their origins in Higher Criticism, such writers often either rejected or minimized the miraculous aspects of Gospel narratives, reducing the crucifixion to a tragic coda to Jesus's life rather than its prefigured culmination. Both Burnouf and Chamberlain argued that the population of Galilee was racially distinct from that of Judea. Lagarde insisted that German Christianity must become "national" in character.
                [edit] In Nazi ideology

                Such ideas were eagerly seized upon by the Nazi movement, which circulated them in its journals such as Der Stürmer and Völkischer Beobachter, both of which stressed the "Nordic" character of Jesus. However, the party was careful to stress that Positive Christianity need not contradict the traditional theologies of established churches. As early as 1920 the Nazis proclaimed in their 25-point program that the Party favored freedom of religion as long as it did not corrupt German morals or threaten the existence of the state, and that,

                    "[t]he Party as such takes its stand on a positive Christianity but does not tie itself in the matter of confession to any particular denomination. It fights the spirit of Jewish materialism inside and outside ourselves."[3]

                Despite this, a number of Nazis openly challenged the established churches. Alfred Rosenberg, editor of Völkischer Beobachter, developed a radical version of Positive Christianity in The Myth of the Twentieth Century, in which he argued that the Catholic and Protestant churches had distorted Christianity in such a way that the "heroic" and "Germanic" aspects of Jesus's life had been ignored. For Rosenberg, Positive Christianity was a transitional ideology that would pave the way to the revival of fully Aryan religions. Its symbol was the orb of the sun in the form of a sun cross.

                Hitler distanced himself from Rosenberg's more radical ideas, wishing to retain the support of the conservative Christian electorate and social elite, but he emphasized the desirability of Positive Christianity. As an aspect of Gleichschaltung, the regime planned to nazify the Protestant Church in Germany (Evangelical Church) by unifying the separate 28 state churches under a single national church that was controlled by the German Christian faction. After some initial setbacks, the Nazis' candidate Ludwig Müller was elected the first Reichsbischof of the new Reichskirche (so-called German Evangelical Church) in September 1933. However, the German Christians' theological initiatives[4] met with resistance from some pastors, most notably Martin Niemöller, who organized the Pastors' Emergency League.[5] Following this failure, Hitler backtracked on attempts to directly nazify the churches.

                The German Faith Movement founded by Jakob Wilhelm Hauer adopted a more thoroughly Aryanized form of the ideology, claiming to represent the essence of the "Protestant" spirit by mixing aspects of Christianity with ideas derived from "Aryan" religions such as Vedic Hinduism and "Aryo"-Persian religiosity (Manicheanism, etc.). They attempted to separate Nazi officials from church affiliations, banning nativity plays and calling for an end to daily prayers in schools.

                With the fall of the Nazi regime in 1945, Positive Christianity as a movement fell into obscurity. It continues to be espoused by some Christian Identity groups.[6]

                1. lizzieBoo profile image78
                  lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  VoltaireZ, I didn't know those details, that's extremely interesting. There are several things at work here, I think. Firstly, it is proof of a religion not being a genuine faith if it is manufactured to fit around certain prejudices.  Removing the divine and miraculous from a religion would render it powerless, how clever of the Nazis to have known this. Shame on those Christians for slicing up the Bible to make it suit their unChristian leanings.
                  I would say that this was another example of how divisive it is to put a book at the centre of a religion. (Those who have corresponded with me will be bored to tears of this subject, but we have just been discussing this in a thread titled 'why didn't Jesus write a book?' Having a book at your fingertips, rather than the indisputable knowledge of action, enables people to critically analyse and rearrange the the components of belief to such an extent that it all becomes unbelievable. The Nazis hated the Catholics because there was no tool with which to obscure the meaning and therefore no way of redirecting the power, as they were able to do with some protestants.)
                  The Nazi idea of Positive Christianity would only have appealed to people with Nazi leanings already, which is to say atheistic and human-centred.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    All religions are manufactured around certain prejudices, Lizzie.  Notice how women are considered not as worthy as men in the old testament.  The society at the time of these biblical myths affected the books themselves.

                  2. VoltaireZ profile image61
                    VoltaireZposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Thomas Jefferson removed all of the "miracles" from his version of the Bible, but the Bible has always been a product of political consensus and rewritten to serve those in power. Notice Pontius Pilatus and the Romans are blamed for Jesus' crucifixion, convenient considering the Romans were the power in that time and place. It's obvious that the Romans actually killed Jesus as a dangerous rebel, and then blamed the Jews for killing their own savior. They had the power to coerce how early Christianity was taught. I'd be that the Christians that taught the Romans killed their profit, were killed themselves, and those who claimed the Jewish leaders killed Jesus, were left alone.

                2. thebrucebeat profile image61
                  thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  In a very real sense, this is the theology of the The Fellowship, or The Family, a group of right wing religionists within the Senate and the House.  They emphasize the power of Christ and suggest that true faith will allow that power to be theirs.  They essentially see Christ as the pathway to being the Superman.

    11. 2besure profile image83
      2besureposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      A tree is know by its fruit, and this man was a nut, not a true Christian!

      1. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sometimes True Christians and nuts can be the same.

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes and the OT god was the tree that the fruit of extreme christianity fell not too far from.

          This guy was yet another religious extremist who wanted to "teach" by killing.

          Just as the bible says to do to those filthy unbelieving muslims.

          1. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You got it backwards, buddy.

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I'm looking at this 6 hours later. Read any news you want to report? lol

            2. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No he got it backwards. In his stupidity he thought he would light the fires of hatred for muslims by hurting his own countrymen to set them against them.

        2. 2besure profile image83
          2besureposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          We do have a few fruit, flakes and nuts in the club, granted! True Christians are loving and kind, so it is easy to tell the difference.

    12. wilmiers77 profile image60
      wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Not so my friend!

      1. Evolution Guy profile image61
        Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Read some history books. Please stop lying at me to defend your dangerous and mind damaging religion.

        You are not my friend either. My friends do not constantly berate me for not believing nonsense and speak garbage at me to defend their beliefs. sad

    13. lizzieBoo profile image78
      lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      One crazy man out of four and half million peaceful people shows you how religion is dangerous? Clutching at straws again? Shabby debate Evo Guy. Very poor.

      1. 0
        zampanoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Religion can be very dangerous when it is associated with sexual deprivation.

        1. lizzieBoo profile image78
          lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          More so than anything else?

          1. 0
            zampanoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I think so, because we have proof that sexual deprivation induces hysteria that can easilly become massive.
            And maybe one of the reasons our monotheist religions are so tight assed on the subject is to preserve their subjects in a excedentary energetical state so their energy can be canalized either to the cult, or to war in the name of that same cult's object.
            It is by far much more difficult to convinced a well fed, healthy, sexually satisfied and litterate person to involve theirself in an aggessive action, than a frustrated (sexually, economically), illiterate one.

            1. lizzieBoo profile image78
              lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              well, the Romans, the Greeks and the Egyptians were pretty sexually permissive. I wouldn't have called them pacifist. The Aztecs liked t put it about a bit too. I would say they had some issues also.

              1. 0
                zampanoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Ceasar and the pharaon were gods too. Or else, god's representatives at least and had their own largely devoted masses.
                Please, be kind enough to note that when I say "sexually satisfied", I'm not talking about permissiveness.
                And if all legion soldiers were litterate enough, such a thing as the roman empire would have never existed, I think (or I hope, so my point keeps its consistency).
                I agreee that my argument is exposed in a simplistic schematic manner, but the essential is there.

                1. lizzieBoo profile image78
                  lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  smile Well it's an interesting angle to use sex as one of the problems associated with religion. The repression of sexual desire cause people to become psychotic?  Do you regard chastity as repression?
                  I'm not sure if there is such a thing as 'sexually satisfied'. I like what John Updike said : " sex and money are alike...only too much is enough".

                  1. 0
                    zampanoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I would not say "psychotic", perhaps "tense", wich is not exclusive to sexual repression, but common to repression in general.
                    Of course sexual repression is only possible on subjects who experience sexual desire.
                    Chastity would not be possible without repression for these latter.
                    Yes "I can't get no satisfaction".
                    "Sexually satisfied" is maybe an ephemeral state. That would explain that healthy people periodically concede more or less time to sexual practice.
                    Sexual satisfaction could be connected with a "balanced" hormonal blood flow.
                    It has very beneficial effects on the soul, that's for sure.

    14. PastorTorch profile image59
      PastorTorchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus the Christ.  To make the claim that you or anyone else is a Christian, you must have a track record of living like a Christian.  You reference this quote as your sorce: "A Facebook account with the same display picture as shown on the Twitter account describes Breivik as a “Christian Conservative”. He lists his interests as “Freemasonry, hunting, bodybuilding and e-sport”. However, this account appears only to have been active since 17th July, the same date as the Twitter account, casting some doubt on its veracity."

      That is far from proof, and not even credible.  But then your faith is based on fake 'evidence" too.  Evolution has often been 'shown' to be true, and latter revealed that thier proof was pig bone or something unrelated.  Yet blinded from the trueth, and hate filled, you jump at every chance to defame the only other possible answer, the trueth.

      1. thebrucebeat profile image61
        thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If a Christian is one who follows the teaching of Christ, then there has only been one.

    15. LeslieAdrienne profile image81
      LeslieAdrienneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Why are your tripping. There are crazy or rather mentally deranged Christians just as there are mentally deranged others.....

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That may be so, but it is more proof isn't it?

    16. jdavis88 profile image88
      jdavis88posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Athiest Murders 6 million plus in Russia....

      you can make all the unfounded comparisons you want, but just because a crazy person that happened to be "Christian" killed people doesn't mean it was due to his religion... Are all athiests power hungry, murderous dictators?  No?  Lenon and Stalin were...

    17. Cavell.Fourie profile image78
      Cavell.Fourieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      To be religious is to follow a belief system. This does not make one a Christian as many believe. True Christianity involves a personal knowledge of God and who He is, in the fullness of His Godhead - Father Son and Spirit. Many people call themselves Christians. but are simply religious, following a form of Godliness without relationship. based on the Bible, A real Christian knows Jesus as a person and has a personal relationship with The Father, the Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Especially Jesus, the saviour who died, not only for those who choose to love Him. but also for those who hate Him. These are not your religious fanatics who kill, but those who would die to bring the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.  Most people in the world call us haters, but the word say's "No greater love has he. than he who would lay down his life for a friend"   much less a stranger or enemy.... To all those who judge Christianity -
      First study what a true Christian is, before judging him.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image94
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        How is it a sacrifice when neither Jesus nor his dad gave up anything they couldn't get back?.  I would give up my own son to save the world if I could simply bring him right back again.

        Sacrifice means to give up something. In this case, neither god nor his boy gave up anything.  smile

  2. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    That has happened a few times lately! sad

  3. TattedKajun profile image60
    TattedKajunposted 5 years ago

    I havent heard about this yet. But if a "Christian" killed someone then he is not a true Christian. And of course he will go to hell for committing murder.

    1. PrettyPanther profile image85
      PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No offense to you personally, but if he practiced Christianity, then he was a Christian. 

      I get tired of the "he/she isn't a true Christian" defense.  Many terrible acts have been carried out in the name of Christianity and other religions as well.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Like doctors who claim to have a cure for cancer or who perform back street abortions?

        Does that mean we get rid of ALL doctors as well wink


        Geez Hitler claimed to be Catholic too and we know how deluded that guy was.


        Nah ,people use God/Godname ,because they think the world will pay attention.

        In a way they do. But the focus should be on justice.

        Is the person a true murderer etc ,not is he Christian or not.

        There are many more Christians who do not murder,and kill.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image85
          PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Did I say we need to get rid of Christians? 

          I am baffled by your reply. 

          I believe that Christians would display more integrity by acknowledging that extremists exist within their faith and working to change the dynamics that create and support them.  By dismissing violence committed in the name of Christianity as being perpetrated by those who are not "true Chrstians," Christians are failing to take responsibility for the flaws that exist in certain factions of their religion.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            @PP

            Often,by their very nature extremists are not operating within a recognised church group ,however if they are ,yes I agree there needs to be less 'exclusiveness'



            I absolutely agree that everyone should be accountable for their actions. Christian or not.

            All I was highlighting is the fact that justice should be done ,independant of their religion.

            I mean anyone can say they are Christian,or whatever denomination they adhere too,but their affiliation as in any other office Should not have any bearing on whether justice is done (or not)

            1. Tumbletree profile image62
              Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Justice? I'll never understand how people define justice. This man killed 90 people and killing him, won't balance some "just" equation. He'd die believing he was a hero. Justice, pain for pain, thinking it will make the original pain go away? What? There is no justice, it's just a word that allows people to go on and forget about what has happened.

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You are right -as far as an eye for an eye goes ,there will be no justice ,but as far the arm of the law can spread today. we can only hope for the best justice can provide.

                Truly the feel sad for the families!!

                Devastating waste of lives.

      2. Onusonus profile image86
        Onusonusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You are so right, all people who are religious are potential mass murderers. We're all just waiting for the right time to strike..... Gimme a break.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image85
          PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          LOL!  Another baffling response.  I did not say all people who are religious are potential mass murderers. 

          However, just because a Christian commits murder, it does not suddenly mean he is not a Christian.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            But Im thinking they never were.......(Christians)

            Either way no one should get treated less or better because of

            Religion ,Race,or Status.

            1. Cagsil profile image82
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If they commit acts of atrocities based on those reasons, religion/race or status, then they should be treated differently.

              Hence, the reasoning for the justice system. wink

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Well perhaps if they quit doing that ,less people would be claiming "God made me do it" " or "Devil made me do it"

                "Rock music made me do it"

                "Violent video made my kid do it"

                "Battered syndrome,made her murder her husband"

                On and on.

                Influencial maybe, reason no.

                1. Cagsil profile image82
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, I guess that shows you how irrationality, which is rationalized by those who do commit the acts are absurd. lol

            2. PrettyPanther profile image85
              PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              So, do you believe that Muslims who commit acts of terrorism against Christians are not really Muslims?

              Are Catholic priests who molest children then cover it up not really Catholics?

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I am saying ...What does it matter ,what or who they say they are.

                1. thebrucebeat profile image61
                  thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Because discovering motive helps to determine where danger may be encountered, what circumstances or belief systems may lead to violent behavior.
                  Motive is very critical information.

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The motive for murder is hate.

                    I agree in part that environment/or extreme circumstances could have some bearing ie. repeated sexual abuse, brainwashing, trauma etc.

                2. PrettyPanther profile image85
                  PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Apparently, it matters to you and others who would say a murderer is not a "true Christian," even when the murderer identifies himself as Christian, attends a Christian church, and even, in the case of one who murders abortion doctors, uses his religion as justification for murder.  To then turn around and say the murderer is not a "true Christian" is a cop out.

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I dont think you have understood my posts,if you think  him being a Christian matters to me or not.

                    I feel very sad for devastation and shock the families must be going through actually.


                    Hitler said the same thing ,and his life (in the beginning suggested he was a believer)...

                    Seriously though words are words and a man (or women) should be judged by their actions,dont you think.

                    God character doesnt change because an evil is performed.

                    Satan on the other hand is probably ecstatic.

            3. Tumbletree profile image62
              Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Umh not treated better because of "status" that's what status means, "they get treated better."

          2. Onusonus profile image86
            Onusonusposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So are you saying that by murdering people he is following the tenants of Christianity? Perhaps he said that he believed in Jesus, but obviously not very much.

            1. getitrite profile image81
              getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Maybe you need to re-read what she actually said, because, I can't see anything, at all, suggesting what you are asking.

      3. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well...as long as they'll concede that Isalmic terrorists aren't true Muslims, and in no way represent the greater Muslim community....

        Yeah, that'll happen.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image85
          PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yup.  When hell freezes over.  big_smile

      4. Jim Hunter profile image59
        Jim Hunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "I get tired of the "he/she isn't a true Christian" defense.  Many terrible acts have been carried out in the name of Christianity and other religions as well."

        You get tired of the defense because you know its the correct defense.

        You want to blame an entire religion on the actions of singular individuals.

        Your argument is the same as saying Michael Vick is guilty of animal cruelty so all pro football players are guilty of it too.

        Its ridiculous, but you can't help yourself.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image85
          PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I have never said I wanted to blame Christianity for the acts of a murderer. I don't.  I merely said it's tiresome to constantly be told that a Christian who commits a murder is not a Christian.

        2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago in reply to this



          Funny stuff Jimbo

    2. getitrite profile image81
      getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The act of murder is rampant in the Bible.  In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. 

      In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport.  There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.

      Comment?

      1. Jonathan Janco profile image80
        Jonathan Jancoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        My only comment is that the OT 'God' is nearly human or atleast a finite being and not the all-knowing all-loving endlessly-forgiving 'God' that many who revere the Bible so unwaveringly commonly refer to. And besides, if your a 'true Christian' you must reject not only those of other races, but your parents as well.

    3. IntimatEvolution profile image81
      IntimatEvolutionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Somehow I don't think the families of the murdered 80 will find comfort with this type of reasoning...

  4. kerryg profile image88
    kerrygposted 5 years ago

    I was reading an article about this on Yahoo last night and the comments were predictably full of morons declaring the act "more proof" of the violent, cowardly nature of Muslims. roll

    One hopes that a few of them are eating crow today, but if TattedKaju's reaction is anything to go by, they're probably too busy claiming the guy is not a "true Christian" to admit that they made complete fools of themselves. tongue

  5. liftandsoar profile image80
    liftandsoarposted 5 years ago

    Every belief system has its cooks.  It's a low blow to blame conservative Christianity for this guy's actions.  You know better than that.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Now they're blaming cooks ??? mad

      1. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        yikes????????

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          liftandsoars comment was a classic example of the  anti-Epicurean bigotry that is so rampant among the followers of McDonald.

          1. getitrite profile image81
            getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Ramen.

          2. jacharless profile image81
            jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol
            Hey now, I used to be quite the Epicurean!
            Not so much Epicurus, as his Garden Variety Essays bugged me for years. ( jeje, get it, garden bugs..ne`er mind. ).

            1. Evolution Guy profile image61
              Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              92 people dead at the hands of a self professed Conservative Christian and you are defending this religion and making jokes.

              jeje sad

              1. jacharless profile image81
                jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                O, lookie who popped up like a daisy!
                Am I making jokes about food, yes. (covers mouth with hand in shock)
                See, you still cannot grasp even a minute fraction of how much damage you yourself are doing by propaganda. Half-truth no less. They nor you have proof he was religious. It is speculation. How `bout you say he was a man who was wrong in the head. I can accept that far more than some crikey anti-theist rhetoric. Who says he was a Christian? Hmm. No one, none of the papers. They say he might have been. But also might have been a Free Mason --like you.

                Far more seeds of destruction in your words, than the bullets in his gun. The more you talk about 'their' religion, the more power you give and the more you prove how religious you really are. Same goes with anything. Its called free advertising.

                But, go on gadding about; let out that rage, Marcus. Lord knows you're full to the gills. Tell them all how evil their religion is. Tell them how evil your determinism isn't. Go `head. I double dare ya. And when you're spent to the last drop, then and only then, will I tell you about the 800 year old man. Fair enough.


                Yank - Y + W, oh wait e=mc2, sorry.

                1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                  Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/ … ertilizer/

                  See the wurds "fundamentalist Christian" ?

                  Dear me. sad Make some more jokes to show us how much you care. sad

                  1. jacharless profile image81
                    jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Wun sezs fun-d, da oddu con sir vativ. Needer iz fax-u-ul.
                    Jus da fax Marcus, jus da fax.

                    Innnet dat wut yur sienz n instink sez? proobable faks only?!

                    Speculation & Determinism is what inspires every war.
                    No wonder why you are so angry and need to fight to defend your beliefs.

                    sad

  6. TattedKajun profile image60
    TattedKajunposted 5 years ago

    Just because you practice Christianity doesnt make you a Christian. You must abide by the rules set forth in your religion to be a truly devout follower. If I practice a jump shot does that make me a basketball player? No, it just makes me better at jump shots.

    1. PrettyPanther profile image85
      PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hmmm, I wonder how many practicing Christians don't fully abide by the rules set forth in their religion?  If that is the standard for being a "true Christian" then I suspect very few actually exist.

    2. 0
      wongomowaleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The problem with that statement is that there are varying sects within Christianity, and each sect has differing practices and beliefs.  There’s no real standard to determine who is a true Christian or not.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The fruit of 'the spirit' is:

        Galatians 5:22-23

        New International Version (NIV)

        22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

        God said , We would know who belonged to Him ,if they produced those 'fruits'

        1. thebrucebeat profile image61
          thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I quote the Fruits often on these pages and elsewhere.   So few of the Christians that post here exhibit any of these traits, or very few.  Mason is a great example.  Whenever I bring the Fruits up to him, he disappears.
          You do appear to try to hold to them, and maintain a kind approach to people, although I don't follow your beliefs as you see them.
          Here's a problem, though.  Paul asserts that people that are truly enfused with the Holy Spirit will exhibit these traits, yet Christ says He is not here for the righteous, but rather to pay the price for sinners, and that we are helpless to avoid sin.  These seem at odds with each other.

  7. TattedKajun profile image60
    TattedKajunposted 5 years ago

    A true person of any faith leads by example, adheres to the rules.

  8. TattedKajun profile image60
    TattedKajunposted 5 years ago

    I would have to agree. Its relatively impossible to be a perfect Christian. But it is also asked by God in the Bible that we strive to be perfect and holy as He is. Being a Christian is a constant battle with sin. Its harder for a Christian because Satan tempts them more. Satan doesnt want someone who sins constantly, hes already got them.

    1. getitrite profile image81
      getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      How does one motivate himself to strive for something that he has already concluded to be impossible to achieve?



      Satan tempts Christians more than Who? And what about ATHEISTS who don't sin?  Could you tell me why they are not tempted?

      1. TattedKajun profile image60
        TattedKajunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        How could Atheist be tempted by Satan if they dont believe in Christianity? Im sure there isnt a Satan for Atheists, right? If there were then there would be a god for Atheist.

        1. getitrite profile image81
          getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          YOU tell me what you believe.  I asked you first.  It is your beliefs that I'm questioning, not mine.  Or are you saying that you agree that your belief is imaginary nonsense.



          So are you admitting that Satan is just made-up nonsense, JUST for delusional believers?


          lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

      2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well..If youre not a Christian ,you are probably not worried about Sin wink


        What is deemed impossible humanly speaking is not deemed impossible to God.

        And God promises to tranform us daily, toward perfection.

        Note I said ~~>toward perfection.

        Its not a daily dose of self help ,with certificates and applauds at the end of a course, its a daily reconnecting of our thoughts ,attitudes and behavious to copy Christs behaviour...til finally we emerge from a human slug to a perfect butterfly...lol

        You get the picture.

        1. TattedKajun profile image60
          TattedKajunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well theres something we agree on..

  9. thebrucebeat profile image61
    thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago

    According to scripture, Christ did not come for those that were without sin, the righteous, but rather as the cure for the sick, the sinners.
    Though Christians are called to attempt to live righteous lives, it is a given that they will fail and need redemption, thus the need for Christ.
    Saying sinners are not Christians is silly.

    1. TattedKajun profile image60
      TattedKajunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you.

      1. thebrucebeat profile image61
        thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Before you pat me on the back too hard, the only reason I brought this up was to answer the idea that had been forwarded that a "real" Christian would not have done this crime.  I think it is very possible that his extreme Christianity led to this crime. 
        We'll see.

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Right over his head....

  10. 0
    Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago

    With all these different believers killing in the name of their gods, wouldn't it be much simpler to leave the fight to the gods themselves?  Allah, Jehovah, Zeus, Wotan, Jesus, Isis, Osiris, and all the other many thousands of gods man has worshipped, could fight it out amongst themselves far removed from our little planet.  Why do they expect their followers to fight their battles for them?

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Believers in Self.

      But if we 'deal' to all these nasty believers who commit these crimes-  Yes I agree some do (In the name of god(?) )

      Does that mean all the murderers and liars that are left are Non-believers?

      What do you do with them, and how will you know they speak the truth?...

      Why they may be the ones making the laws.

      Bottom line for me is I don't trust man/woman.

      They can say whatever they like under pressure ,why some would even sell their grandmothers...

      Judge ALL people according to their crime!!! Independant of their

      Religion
      Status
      Race

      1. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yet you have no problem TRUSTING that a 2000 year old book, written by MEN, was dictated to them by the CREATOR of existence!

        How do you know that some of these men didn't sell their grandmothers? sad  Yet you have no problem believing their BS.



        It is the individual that is on trial, however it is his psychological profile that sometimes establishes motive...which could include his religious indoctrination.  That's just reality.

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sometimes is NOT reality

        2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Written by men -inspired by God

          Big difference

          Huge difference

          Dont need to be a rocket scientist to see what inspires mankind to kill

          1. thebrucebeat profile image61
            thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            True.

            Often it is the many variety of Holy books they worship and follow.

          2. getitrite profile image81
            getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            YOU DON"T KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE!  YOU ARE OUTRIGHT TRUSTING MAN!!!!

            Yet you adamantly asserted that you don't trust man/woman.
            There appears to be a BRAZEN contradiction here.  Are you aware of this?



            NO.




            NO.





            Irrelevant, and evading the issue. 

            No wonder there are so many angry, murdering Christians out there doing God's work...trying to change reality to suit their delusion.

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Are they Christians because they say they are?

              Perhaps they really are deluded and believe they are doing the will of God.

              If you know the difference and I know the difference,what is the problem?

              Judge him like any other criminal,and may justice be done.



              STOP SPECULATING!!!

      2. 0
        Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        According to biblical law, there is nothing actually wrong with selling one's relations.  In fact in the Old Testament the loving father God recommended that a father should sell his daughters into slavery if he needed money.

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          We are instructed to obey the laws of the land.

          Last time I looked ,murder wasnt one of them wink

    2. 0
      zampanoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Right !
      And so, we could send only the generals to the battle front and keep our people at home and live our own business in peace.
      Anyways, religion is just the invoked motive, because masses thelselves don't have a high enough level of good sense or consciouseness to refuse it.
      Wars are motivated by economic / financial interests and fomented by people who don't directly take part in slaughters, but pull the strings from their comfortable fauteuils.
      But everybody knows that.

  11. Stump Parrish profile image60
    Stump Parrishposted 5 years ago

    I dont know about that tatted, It seems that most christians would bet a pot of boiled mud bugs that I'm going to spend a lot of time hangin with satan for not believin in god.

    1. TattedKajun profile image60
      TattedKajunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If you dont believe in got then how are you going to hang with Satan? If there is no God, then there is no Satan...

      1. thooghun profile image87
        thooghunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        He said that Christians believed that, not that he did.

        1. TattedKajun profile image60
          TattedKajunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ok, well, we're past that now. Thanks.

  12. Stump Parrish profile image60
    Stump Parrishposted 5 years ago

    Tatted, I dont think very many christians believe atheists need a god for satan to exist. I would be a pot of boiled mudbugs that most christians feel I will be spending a lot of time hangin with satan for not believin in god

  13. Stump Parrish profile image60
    Stump Parrishposted 5 years ago

    sorry about the dbl post, IP is acting up, my bad

  14. TattedKajun profile image60
    TattedKajunposted 5 years ago

    Help me out here....would being an extreme Christian allow, or even justify breaking Gods law and committing a sin?

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Extreme meaning "Unscriptual" IMO

      1. TattedKajun profile image60
        TattedKajunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Extreme as in they take the Bible out of context, pick certain scriptures to adhere by, and twist it to suit their needs.

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ok I understood ,so blantantly lyng.

          Shouldnt matter anyway, commit the crime-do the time!

        2. 0
          Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Exactly what is taking the Bible out-of-context?  Different Christians interpret the Bible differently, which as the Bible contradicts itself isn't surprising.  On the one hand God commands 'Thou shalt not kill,' on the other he orders the mass slaughter of many different peoples in the Old Testament, not even sparing the women and children.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I repeat:

            Obey the laws of the land.

            1. getitrite profile image81
              getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I'm glad I didn't live in the land where God said this:


              Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock.  Psalms 137:9

              But I tend to have plenty more morals than your depraved God.

              1. 0
                Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                If a man were to suggest that children be smashed against the rocks, Christians would agree he was evil.  If God said it, then it is fine, because God invented morality.  I still cannot get my head around such arguments.

              2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The laws of the land where you live today does not advocate Murder,do they!

                No ,why not?

                God said to Obey the laws of the land.



                I am getting a little weary of you getitrite,please stop taking my words out of context.

                What you do to scripture(add,change) is not new, so do try at least to be original.

    2. thebrucebeat profile image61
      thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Even the most adamant Christian sins on an hourly basis.  Sin is not avoidable, if you believe in the doctrine of sin.  It is the very nature of man, thus requiring a savior to deliver us from it, as we can not do it on our own.
      Christ knew he was on solid ground when He said "He who is without sin, cast the first stone".  Surely there would be no takers.

  15. Stump Parrish profile image60
    Stump Parrishposted 5 years ago

    Tatted, all you have to do is go to the armyofgod.com website and you will get your answer

    1. TattedKajun profile image60
      TattedKajunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Ok, Stump. I just checked it out. Those type of people are better suited being called extremist, or even radicalist. I understand where you are coming from, but their actions, and the actions of others killing in the name of Christianity is a contradiction itself. We all know "Thou shalt not murder" because it goes against the Law of God. How can you go against something, such as the Law, and still be for it, it being God? You cant break Gods commands and say you did it for Him. Does that make any sense?

      1. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The bible justifies killing.  All one has to do is declare war.  I committed no crimes while in the Marines, because God sanctioned my killing the enemy right?


        Though shalt not kill is contradicted in the bible.

        If killing is wrong according to your God, then WHO is sanctioned to stone adulterers, and homosexuals, and fornicators to death?  Since that would be killing as well, wouldn't it?

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The old law advocated the death penalty.

          The new law doesnt remove the consequences ,it delays the judgement.

          Delay doesnt mean redundant.

          1. getitrite profile image81
            getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Deleted

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              ..Jesus arrived.

              A Saviour.

              Redeemer.

              Counsellor.

              Teacher.

              Bridge to reconcile.

              King of Kings.

              Son of God and Son of Man.

              Old Laws were black and white ,Mosaic laws. No chance of repentance,reconciliation,or restoration lands/people ruled by Kings. Men.

              Jesus came to to fulfil prophesy and to restore all that had broken down, individuals ,communities,governments,nations.

              He also came to destroy the religious spirit and provide the only way to reconsciliation with God. He said.

              I am the way ,the truth and the Life
              No man.comes to the Father,except through me (accepting /believing Jesus)

              1. getitrite profile image81
                getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That's completely absurd, when God, the Father, was already here.

                What the $#@%# was His malfunction?  Why have you Christians invented a need for a saviour, when the ULTIMATE was already here? 

                Oh! Yeah!  It's part of the delusion.

          2. getitrite profile image81
            getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Why?




            So your God, claiming to be UNCHANGABLE is just an outright lie?




            I don't think you meant to use the term 'redundant'

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              God never changed.

              Man did.

              (Does it on a daily basis) in my opinion.

  16. Uninvited Writer profile image84
    Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago

    Funny, when it's a Muslim who does this the entire religion of Islam is condemned by many Christians. When it's a Christian they get offended if anyone blames the religion.

    I personally don't condemn either for the crimes of one man.

    1. Neverletitgo profile image75
      Neverletitgoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You are right, it is not right to condemn to believers of any religion for one man's bad action.

  17. TattedKajun profile image60
    TattedKajunposted 5 years ago

    Cop out? Murder goes against everything about being a Christian.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      or Muslim

      1. TattedKajun profile image60
        TattedKajunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        YES! And Muslim.

    2. 0
      wongomowaleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Despite this, Christianity is one of history’s bloodiest religions.

      1. jacharless profile image81
        jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Actually, that is false. The largest and bloodiest theology has been science. Sensationalism is powerless without weapons and tools, politics and determinism to spawn its effect. Besides the obvious, The Ottoman, Mongol and Roman Empires were not Christian at all. The Crusades didn't last even a decade.

        History doesn't lie. Educate yourself, seriously.

        PS, it is because of such typical neolithic thinking, that inspired Japan to invade Russia -which was the start of WW2. And the US to form the space and arms race, while the parties plotted genocide, chemical warfare and more. Christianity, Islam & Judaism combined cannot compare to the devastation and atrocities caused by scientifically led politics/society.

        1. 0
          wongomowaleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You’re calling science a theology then telling me to educate myself?  None of those empires were Christian, but that has nothing to do with how bloody Christianity has been over the centuries. Your straw man argument doesn’t disprove anything I’ve just said.

          1. TattedKajun profile image60
            TattedKajunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Look how terrible the Spanish Enquisition was...along with the Crusades..how about the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland..

          2. jacharless profile image81
            jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I see, tossing word salad like the others.
            do you know what Straw Man theory is? Probably not.

            But, I'll play along, show me facts, not speculation but facts, that Christianity is/was the 'bloodiest' of all over centuries. I'll wait.

            Lastly, apparently you are ignorant to what the meaning of science is and where it was birthed, err, berthed. But, I'm not surprised, most do not know. They do not understand their own duality, nor how science designed and founded every single construct of Theos throughout history, the pragmatics of humanism, and precisely why it is the 'creator' of these sensationalistic expressions (often titled religion).

            sad
            Dear me, no wonder why your belief system causes so many conflicts.

            1. 0
              wongomowaleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Islam and Christianity alone have had a hand in history’s biggest racially motivated holocaust and slave trade.  Then there’s the centuries old conflict that’s still going on in the Holy Land and it’s probably no surprise that Hitler’s hatred of Jews was inspired by the anti-Jewish teachings of Christianity in Germany. Yet you have the nerve to say that Japan invading Russia can even compare to the crimes committed by the Abrahamic faiths.  You’re out of your mind

              Should we also discuss everything the Church has done to undermine scientific discovers too?

              My belief system? Please tell about what I believe since you seem to know so much about me.

              1. jacharless profile image81
                jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Wait, you went from "the bloodiest of all" to just "having a hand in" lol

                Untrue. The largest Slave Trade in history is Asia. It superseded African, Native Island and Pacifica enslavement by multi-millions.

                History doesn't lie, nor care about your belief system, sorry to be the one to tell you that.

                1. 0
                  wongomowaleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I never said "the bloodiest of all" There you go with the straw man again.

                  My words were " Christianity is one of history’s bloodiest religions." See what happens when you read smile

                2. 0
                  wongomowaleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  So Asia had an slave trade that last more than 1000 years and caused the deaths of an estimated 100 million people?

                  History doesn't lie, but clearly you do.

                  1. jacharless profile image81
                    jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Asian slave trade is still the largest and worse of all slave trades. for over 3,000 years they have been doing it and no one cares. They put the Egyptians to shame. Perhaps you have never heard of the Babylonians. Clearly, you are so well educated yet  only wanting to spew hate speech against religions you helped create --and now you want to destroy-- to hide the evidence of your humanism. I see very clearly.

                    sad

                    ps, I said multi millions not 100 million.
                    But still, lets mark the cards: how many people has science killed in the name of their gods, put in their temples called museums, laboratories, etc.

                  2. jacharless profile image81
                    jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Actually, my apologies, I stand corrected regarding Constantine I and his war in the name of Christianity, it lasted only 30 years, not 100. The last small war over Christianity was found as a civil war in France.

                    By the way, in answer to your question about Asia, yes. Their slave trade continues to this day. Nearly 1.7 Billion present citizens of China are slaves to a non-theistic ruler. And lets not forget Laos, Sri Lanka, Tibet, Korea, etc. Had it not been for the US and europe, Russia would never have gone Commune. They did very well under orthodox ideologies. Very well, for a very long time.


                    End Rant. big_smile

            2. 0
              wongomowaleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Also I hope you are aware during WW II the Japanese believed their emperor was a divine being.  Quit trying to twist history to defend the crimes of religion.

              1. jacharless profile image81
                jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Facts? Show me the facts only. I care less about your fundie beliefs pro or con. Historical facts only. ( ps, the Imperial Emperor of Japan did not consider himself a divine being for nearly 4 dynasties after the Mongol desolation. Read up. When WW2 opened, none considered him divine. He was noted as a militaristic dictator --a communist dictator by definition. In actuality, he was a determinist.

        2. Neverletitgo profile image75
          Neverletitgoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Roman Empires were Christian so first educate yourself and don't try to defend murderer or criminal for the sake of your belief, you should be against.

          1. jacharless profile image81
            jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Roman Empire was Christian, really? lol For about 100 years, tops. The Roman Empire has existed looooooooooooooooong before Christianity. It was around long before the Greco-Meso Empire.

            Do you know when the Roman Empire began and what it came from? And especially Who?

      2. TattedKajun profile image60
        TattedKajunposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree. I think mainly because one group of people tried to force it onto another group, or control them with it. Thats mans own doing. Twisting scriptures to make them work for oneself.

  18. Neverletitgo profile image75
    Neverletitgoposted 5 years ago

    If he is murderer, then he is murderer and nobody can say he is not Christian or he is not religious. The reality is that he is Christian and he is alone his crime and nobody can label that to the Christian. If he was a Muslim no doubt that most of the people who commenting here would label that to 1.5 billion people with no exception, that is not fair.

  19. SpanStar profile image61
    SpanStarposted 5 years ago

    Once again these tire old claims about those evil little Christians-Lame.

    I have a question:

    What are the non-believes that are making these claims doing about the problems in the world??  For years, and years now I've not seen any banner proclaiming we Non-Believers ended poverty, ended rape, stopped the killing here , there and everywhere.

    There is enough help needed that plenty of Non-Believers should be known around the world as having done a better job with solving the world's problems than those murdering Christians.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13799616


    Crime In other parts of the world

    Murders per 1000 people, from highest to lowest:

    Russia: o.201534
    South Africa: 0.0562789
    America: 0.042802
    India: 0.0344083
    France: 0.0173272
    Canada: 0.0149063
    Britain: 0.0140633
    Denmark: 0.0106775
    Japan: 0.00499933
    http://nitawriter.wordpress.com/2007/08 … -of-world/

    Video Crime

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Num … FORM=VDRE#


    Matthew 7:3-5 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)

    2.Matthew 7:5

    Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch … rsion=NKJV

  20. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    All that in support of the most psychotic far-outeum myth imaginable!

    Religion is a joke best played on the gullible..... a word soup that the world's mentally handicapped can mould to fit their need to control others when the problem is they can't control themselves. smile



    Santa with attitude.

    http://godisimaginary.com/i7.htm

  21. Paradise7 profile image85
    Paradise7posted 5 years ago

    The man must have had serious mental issues, no matter what his religious status, to randomly kill 80 people.  I don't think his Conservative Christianity, if he indeed was a Conservative Christian, was the impetus behind the mental illness that led him to take others' lives.  I don't think so.  There is no evidence for that being the case, and it seems unlikely, since Christ's example is of non-violence.

    So if that's what you're implying, and I think you are, back it up with something other than your bare and biased assertion, please!

  22. 0
    Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago

    I really am beginning to fear what is happening to the world.  For some years now, we have had to come-to-terms with the terrorist threat posed by Muslim fundamentalists, now it seems that a Christian fundamentalist is also willing to kill many in the name of his god.  I used to be religious, yet have found myself growing ever more fearful of the increasing role of religious extremism in the world and I am finding the  increasing voice of angry religious people to be ever more distasteful.  It seems extremism breeds extremism, and I am not prepared to keep quiet when I hear religious bigots spread their message of hate.  In my private life, I have kept quiet, when listening to bigoted religious views, but am coming to believe that this is part of the problem.  If I am too afraid to offend people, because society seems to accept that being religious affords certain privileges, then I cannot complain when I see my country and other parts of the world fall under the influence of mediaeval belief systems.

    There was a time when Western Europe was seen as being at the forefront of liberal thinking.  The battles over the past century have seen rights for women, rights for gay people, rights for the freedom to practice relious faith, the development of a welfare state to take care for those in need and the elderly.  It seemed things were moving forward and I was proud to live in such a tolerant society, where freedoms were taken for granted. 

    Now though, within only a few years, the rise of religion is putting such freedoms and equalities under threat.  The demands of the religious are becoming too loud to ignore, and I am beginning to wish that I had remained in the closet as an atheist.  And when I read that the Equalities Commission is to back the rights of the religious, who do not want to work with gay people, even though their job requires that they treat everyone equally.  When an organisation set up with the idea of promoting equality decides to come down firmly on the side of the religious, this seems to me to be setting an agenda, which it has no business to set.  The Commission has even criticised atheists for not respecting religion.  Well, how is it possible to respect the religious, when so much hatred and bigotry is spread in the name of their gods?

    Science and rationalism seem to be losing ground in the face of religious demands.  In Britain, with the Muslim population increasing by 500,000 in four years, and the rise of intolerant Christian creationist evangelicals, and where in the land of Darwin's birth 50% of the population believes in creationism, it seems to me that the age of the Enlightenment is coming to its close.  Even the belief in fairies has increased dramatically, and I sometimes wonder if I have fallen asleep at the beginning of the 21st century and woken in the 14th.  I see changes, which are not for the better, and Europe is changing into something I do not recognise.  I only hope that the killing in Norway is not the start of something new, we shall be expected to get used to.  I have previously been critical of the call of Richard Dawkins for militant atheism, now I am beginning to think he may have a point.

  23. Jonathan Janco profile image80
    Jonathan Jancoposted 5 years ago

    Actually, the KKK is alive and well and very much a threat. The main threat is, if you acually bother to read their mission statements, that they have adopted a platform that the Republican party attempts very consistently to emulate. Funny how the TPers ramble on about how we havent run the country by the constitution for the last 150 yrs. Well what did we take out of the constitution 150 yrs ago? Slavery? What a shocking coincidence!

    http://kkk.bz/

    1. jacharless profile image81
      jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't see that as any threat, at all.
      As said, the constructs of humanism are on their last leg.
      Religion, Science/Technology, Politics, Sexuality, everything has reached its apex. Humanism is about to end, finally, to the betterment of humanity. Is humanity ready? We can only hope.

      smile

      1. 0
        Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Humanism is about to end? Really?  And you believe this will create a better society, if it is replaced by religion.  Well, humanity has had thousands of years of one religion or another.  And what has been the result?  Wars, terrorism, bigotry, hatred, burning of heretics etc.  Religion has had plenty of time to create paradise on Earth, but has been found wanting.  The modern distrust of science and of man's achievements and a longing for a new order based on religion, where ignorance replaces reasoning is illogical, and for me, quite terrifying.  The desire for a return to the Dark Ages is horrifying to someone who believes in rationality, equality, science and peace.

        1. jacharless profile image81
          jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, Really. Not to sound cliche, but the signs are everywhere.
          That is a conjectural question? I have no religion nor see that any religion -by equation (science) nor sensation (titled religion) of any genuine value to mankind. Theos (the constructs of science and sense) is near its end. Humanism -even this new found Quality- has climaxed. 

          Why was or is it the responsibility of sensation only to 'create a paradise'? That kind of thinking exemplifies --and amplifies-- perfectly, typical humanistic reason. According to sciences reason, man has had 250,000 years. So, in actuality, if there was to be responsibility, certainly science would be. But it cannot be either, as it is a construct of humanism.
          Modern? That gave me a chuckle. Apparently history only counts post industrial revolution? Post Darwin? Dear me. And precisely what has man achieved??? He managed to melt the already here metals of earth to make weapons and what-not. Build machines with those metals to pretend he made something? Or by observing a thing decided what it was and from where it came? Ooooo, I am so NOT impressed. Compared to, say, one of those 'muon' science has observed, everything man has made or dismantled collectively is piss and wind. Science has no fact, no real empirical evidence. It has what sensation has -what it accuses sensation of only having: imperialism, megalomania, ego, pride, prejudice, psychopathy and clearly an appetite for [self] destruction. The god of science is the same as the god of sensation -the self. Now, you have swung to Strawman Theory? No such animal as a New World Order. It is a scare tactic of humanism, a goading from a shwashbuckler, at the end of a pitiful play/existence. Logic has nothing to do with reason. And if you understood that, you would understand also why the limitations of science and religion continue to keep you ignorant and terrified. Ignorance IS reason, as reason is biased to the self and its goals, desires, determinations -caring nothing for the other or another, without self gain, feeling of accomplishment, general satisfaction, sustenance, authority, power, prestige or contentment/complacency of responsibility. In short, it pretends genuine affection, imposes affliction but demands in return, respect and adoration.
          All those things you mention are the elements of the MANY dark ages of human history, yes as well as the enlightened ages of humanism. The 14th century has ended, if I recall correctly. Science slithered from its dank dungeon as religion began collapsing in on itself. Science once more ignited the fire under sensationalism to sustain the concept of Theos it created. Yes, my friend, science fashioned religion many, many moons ago. [I won't elaborate, but if you want to see it, study history closely and with open eyes].
          Now, look at the result of humanism. Look long and hard. Be real -and certainly, if you claim rational- look at it rationally, from all vantage points. Humanism has failed since its inception. And it now fights, with gasping breaths, for life. An old, decrepit couple. The roof they tried so desperately to hold the house of duality together -this thing called quality of life and personal determination- failed. There is nothing for humanism to fall back on.
          But yes, there is something altogether ancient coming -returning actually. Something that existed long before humanism's inception: Altruism. If the term evolution can be applied, then this is the next phase of human evolution. It is beyond necessity, beyond gods and gauges, beyond quantum and want `em. Where man doesn't need weapons of steel and glass nor hell, fire and brimstone to protect or deflect that emptiness, longing. Where mechanics and woo-la-la cannot take nor reveal; where his thinking returns to what is was: a processor of genetically programed information, allowing him to one more understand. And with that understanding be transformed into what he once was. A creation of such uniqueness and perfection, one that understood who, what, why and how. A creation consumed and living in Free Will. Void of the choice necessity. Void of need and not needing hope. Call it Grace, Free Will, whatever you like.

          It is inevitable.
          smile

          James.

  24. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    As a christian, I call BS.

    If the gunman believed in Christ, he was a christian.  Christians have murdered, robbed, and even raped in the name of Christ.  They may be crazy, but they are our crazies.  Own it, accept it and cope.  Yes, our holy-men have started wars and they were damn sure Christians when they did it.  The morons that demonstrate funerals... yep they are ours too.  The KKK is damn sure alive, completely impotent and laughable, but alive... and guess what, THEY are ours too.  This is the face of christianity, even if it isn't the meaning of it.  You don't like it, then stop recruiting for God's referral program and deal with your own.  I try everyday and am told I'm not a christian if I don't think like every other christian.  So I either have to accept the dumbest of us as like me or give up my beliefs because the people that are supposed to share my beliefs are raping the Bible to excuse their own personal bigotry.

    Zealots, ANY zealots that believe in ANY god are dangerous.  Is it the fault of Christ that some of his followers are idiots?  Nope.  Is it my fault that some of my fellow Christians are close minded egotistical holier than thou idiots that randomly spout off illogical nonsense in defense of their warped definition of Christianity?  Maybe a little, but I cant control all of them.  I can tell them they are being unchristlike, but I cant tell them they aren't Christians.  Just as the fundies can't tell me I'm not a christian because I am pro choice, anti-death penalty and for gay rights.

  25. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    lol lol James it's nice to see the love! lol lol lol

    1. jacharless profile image81
      jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank Earnest. I just had to finally say it, it is inevitable. Everyone will be transformed. Psychopathy-Shmopothy, religion- pigeon, science-shmience -its all irrelevant. smile

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        James, your god of the bronze age has no more effect than does any other mythical being. smile
        No one is going to kiss*ss just because your beliefs say so. smile

  26. TMMason profile image73
    TMMasonposted 5 years ago

    You all mean the NAZI who shot the kids and blew up the offices... all NAZIs call themselves Christians... doesn't make it so.

    Frank Mersland, a journalist with FVN TV, says Breivik has been linked to the anti-immigration "Progress party".-- Oh those crazy Progressives.--

    He wrote to The Guardian via email:

    "The suspect, Anders Behring Breivik, has been tagged as a former member of the right winged political party Frp (Progress party). It's the second largest political party in Norway and their main issues are lower taxes and a much stricter policy on immigration. The Frp-leader, Siv Jensen, verified his membership on Norwegian TV2 a little while ago.

    Apart from his anti-immigration policies, the Daily Mail and Fox News report that Breivik also argued that socialism was breaking down traditions, culture, national identity and other societal structures and that this in turn made society weak and confused."

    (Yes... so it is time to move to a harsher marxism... a lil NAZI-ism, or Communism, anyone? I have explained to you all over and over how the strong eat the weak on the Left, Socialists devour minimal Collectivists, NAZis devour Socialist, Communists devour NAZIs... Facists slaughter all the above... and poof! Welcome to Marx' Eutopia.

    And, an “extreme right wing” individual in Europe is not always an “extreme right wing” individual in America. That’s important to note, as the designation will make the rounds.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … slims.html

    And lets keep in mind that when Europe speaks of "Right wing conservatives" they are speaking of noe- NAZis, not American conservatives.

    But hey... why bother with the lil things.

    http://expo.se/2011/terror-suspect-was- … _4193.html

    FACTS: NORDIC, (NAZIs)

    •Nordisk (Nordic) was launched in 2007 and was a rapid hit with nationalists in Sweden. The forum has nearly 22,000 members, one of them the mass killer Anders Breivik. Members span from high-ranking members of the Sweden Democrats, a nationalist party with seats in the Swedish parliament to leading members of the nazi movement and to unhinged psychopaths. What unites the whole lot is a hatred of immigration and immigrants.

    •Subjects are generally discussed in a racist manner and have included discussions about the book The Turner Diaries, a novel that has served as a terrorist manual, was labelled the "terrorist bible" by the FBI and served as a direct inspiration for the Oklahoma bombing of 1995 in which 168 people were slaughtered.

    •Nordisk is described as a portal "themed with Nordic identity, culture and tradition". The forum was established by the Nordiska Förbundet (Nordic League) organisation, founded in 2004 by members of the right-wing extremist National Democrats and the hardcore nazi Swedish Resistance Movement.


    Ahh you all are so funy with your he is a "Right Winger" BS.

    Not in America he is not!

    1. Evolution Guy profile image61
      Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "Conservative Christian" seems to be missing from your nonsensical diatribe. Oh well - why bother with the lil things? sad And - Conservative Christian means the same in Europe as it does in the USA.

      1. lizzieBoo profile image78
        lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        um no it doesn't.

  27. TMMason profile image73
    TMMasonposted 5 years ago

    FACTS: NORDIC, (NAZIs)

    •Nordisk (Nordic) was launched in 2007 and was a rapid hit with nationalists in Sweden. The forum has nearly 22,000 members, one of them the mass killer Anders Breivik. Members span from high-ranking members of the Sweden Democrats, a nationalist party with seats in the Swedish parliament to leading members of the nazi movement and to unhinged psychopaths. What unites the whole lot is a hatred of immigration and immigrants.

    •Subjects are generally discussed in a racist manner and have included discussions about the book The Turner Diaries, a novel that has served as a terrorist manual, was labelled the "terrorist bible" by the FBI and served as a direct inspiration for the Oklahoma bombing of 1995 in which 168 people were slaughtered.

    •Nordisk is described as a portal "themed with Nordic identity, culture and tradition". The forum was established by the Nordiska Förbundet (Nordic League) organisation, founded in 2004 by members of the right-wing extremist National Democrats and the hardcore nazi Swedish Resistance Movement.


    Ahh you all are so funy with your he is a "Conservative Christian Right Winger", BS.

    Not in America he is not!

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Mr. Mason, this is not an attempt to point fingers, but this is cut and pasted directly from an article on MSN.

      Deputy police chief Roger Andresen declined to comment on the possible motive for the killings, but said: "We have no more information than ... what has been found on (his) own websites, which is that is goes toward the right (wing) and that it is, so to speak, Christian fundamentalist."

      Whatever his true motivations, you can't deny the facts of his stated religion.

      1. TMMason profile image73
        TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes... the link is above in the other comment.. and it is not MSNBC... it is... expo.

        http://expo.se/2011/terror-suspect-was- … _4193.html

        I thought I had grabbed it all from the 2nd comment back... but appearently not.

        But what does that matter, Emile?

        The point was the man is not a clear cut "Right Wing Christian Conservative", as Americans know them to be.

        And that is all... clearification.

        All NAZIs call themselves "Christians"... that does not mean he is one, or that I call him one. My point as I said was that he is not a right winger as Americans think of them. But that is what the American left wants everyone to think of when they say right wing Christian = "NAZI"... and that is BS.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I will agree that attempting to lay the blame on a group, and not the individual is bs. This guy was apparently troubled.

          My primary fear at this point is that now the bar has been raised, yet again.  There will be crazies out there plotting a way to 'one up' this violent episode.

        2. Cagsil profile image82
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          ALL "Christians" are the same. When one acts out, all the others "claim" them to not be "Christian", even if they themselves claim it, as their reasons for their actions.

          This is why "Christians" actually should never be trusted. They all lie, claiming what they speak as "truth", when they fail to understand what "truth" is to begin with.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            All Christians are the same roll

            That cant be right, because I thought I was most definately better than everyone else lol

            1. Cagsil profile image82
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You can roll your eyes all you want. It doesn't negate the fact that ALL Christians come out with the same statement.

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Cags- As you dont know ALL Christians ,I think that is a very ignorant statement to make. wink

                And if they did ,you label them liars? who says your analyses is correct?

                1. Cagsil profile image82
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  So far, analysis from ALL Christians on here....verifies it. So, it's not an ignorant statement, but is a statement in truth, you apparently refuse to accept. Nothing new.
                  They are lying to themselves.
                  Proof is in the pudding of the actions of them here. Therefore, it's correct.

                  Too bad you don't like, but it is what it is.

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I accept your observations draw you to have an opinion ,of which you are more than entitled too.

                    I dont agree with you is all.

              2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No, not all Christians do.

          2. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus's statement of "I knew you not..." was made to the so called Christians, not to All, letting us know that all that claims to be Christians are not Christians in the spirit of truth. The majority of Christians that this statement was directed was those who proclaimed their good works (humanism) as proof of their salvation.
            The Word of God says that One is saved by the grace of God thru His Son, Jesus, and not by One's self works.
            The so called Christian Conservative murdered on his own; it was his agenda and not God's agenda.
            Therefore, all Christians truthfully says every time that the murderer is not of Christianity, or else he wouldn't have murdered.

            1. Uninvited Writer profile image84
              Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Much as many Muslims try to do but are told it is their religion's fault.

            2. Cagsil profile image82
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Still doesn't negate the person who put the claim of being Christian on his actions. So, your words are meaningless, but next time, try addressing the topic, instead of me.

              We've had our discussion and your weakened position is meaningless.

              1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                In your case, sounds like selective hearing on your behalf and over reacting to a special case that us Christians has previously explained to you. By living long enough to write you should have experienced the truth of all above...those that claim are not always just. Even you can join church and proclaim to be a Christian, but is it true and just.

                1. Cagsil profile image82
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  roll

                  1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Ditto? Qualifying, our beliefs have been tried by fire and encompasses all. It works!

            3. thebrucebeat profile image61
              thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              If one is saved by the grace of God, and not by one's "self works" as you put it, why would one's actions determine whether one was a Christian or not?

              1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "Without works faith is dead...although saved by grace". Ask me of my faith, and I shall show you by my works.

                1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                  Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Your "works" seem to consist solely of attacking anyone who does not believe garbage. sad

                  1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Where is the attack? Please do tell me! Are you considering my stand being that much of a threat to you until you think that you are being attacked?

                  2. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
                    Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Little man, again - do you even read what you write??  The irony here is almost overwhelming to me.  You're whole purpose here on this website is to attack people of faith.  It's all you do - I've checked.

                    But you are a man of faith!  Faith in a poisonous religion that de values the lives of others - not all atheist are hateful at all, but you are a hate filled little man.

                    Perhaps I'll give you a prayer.

                  3. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The pot calling the kettle black lol

              2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "We are saved by grace and not by works."
                Ask me of my faith and I shall show you my works.

                1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                  wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  "Without works faith is dead...".

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    With works, faith is not required.

  28. Troy C. profile image60
    Troy C.posted 5 years ago

    That is a terrible thing that happened. It makes you wonder what goes on inside the human mind. One thing I can guaratee is that he is not a true desciple of Jesus, Because if he were following the Lords teachings of love he would not have done such a thing. John 15:17 "This is my command: Love each other. We all should pray for all the families affected by this tragedy.

                              God bless you all

  29. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    Evil is evil ,no scapegoats needed

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You are right.  Evil stands alone.  But, Cagsil is right too.  Every time there is some violence perpetrated in the name of religion, the religious are quick to point out that person couldn't be one of them.  A true Christian, or a true Muslim, or a true anything is exactly that, if that is what they claim to be.

      I can see saying something like, 'the guy was whacked', 'the guy definitely doesn't follow the same philosophy I do', or anything.  But, for anyone to say he wasn't a Christian doesn't negate the fact that he laid that claim and was allowed to do so by that religion.

      The accusation that he wasn't a Christian only serves to show someone attempting to distance themselves in a manner that can't be argued effectively.

  30. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
    Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago

    This is the most retarded post I've ever seen anyone make on this website.

    If all the religions in the world vanished in an instant, we'd have the same number of violent persons finding the same reasons for whatever it is that they do.  Equating religions with violence is immature at best - people commit acts of violence, religions have no part in it - and especially the Christian or Jewish religions.

    Somewhere an old man sits in a bar in Scotland, and he's saying "Aye, but no TRUE Atheist would have done that" - speaking of Stalin.

    1. Evolution Guy profile image61
      Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      LOL Not a real Kristian then? LOLOL Keep defending the faith. No matter how many die or are raped - them int reel Kristians iz they? sad

      1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You aren't very bright at all.  I question your degree of reading comprehension.  I do not question the level of hatred in your heart.  It shines through.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's an interesting take on it. I would have to ask if those particular violent persons were violent due to a religious reason only, what other reason could they use to be violent?

      1. EmpressFelicity profile image84
        EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        1. Politics
        2. Football
        3. Jealousy
        4. Sexual competitiveness (see 3)
        5. Drink
        6. Drugs
        7. Schizophrenia (possibly aggravated by 6)
        8. Psychopathy
        9. Enjoyment of violence for its own sake (see 8).

        I'm sure there are more, but those are a few that I could think of right off the top of my head.

        FWIW, I'm not religious.

        1. Jonathan Janco profile image80
          Jonathan Jancoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I love a good political debate, I love to watch football, I get jealous under certain circumsances. I like to drink, I've had periods of my life where I did serious hard drugs. I've had psycotic episodes and when I think of the enjoyment of violence for its own sake there is always the PS3. Still havent commited a violent act since I was 15. And that was when I broke my stepdad's skull with a table leg because he had my mother prone on the floor and was kicking her in the head. So, as far as I am concerned, all of your 'reasons' are nothing but excuses for inexcusable behavoir. And religion, as far as I can see, is also merely an excuse.

          1. EmpressFelicity profile image84
            EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Absolutely - you'll get no argument from me there! It kind of makes me frustrated when people can't think beyond "religion is the cause of all the violence in the world", particularly when discussing a horrific event like this one.

            As little time as I have for organised religion, I have to point out that religion isn't the root of all violence - like you say, it's just one of several different excuses that people use to justify violence.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What you're saying is that those very same people who use religion as an excuse to be violent also use those other reasons to be violent?

    3. 0
      wongomowaleposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      With all the wars that have been fought simply because too gropus had different religions, it fail to see how removing religion wouldn't decrease violence. Religion has had a lot to do with violence.

  31. SpanStar profile image61
    SpanStarposted 5 years ago

    Jesus was accused of lots of things, all lies.  He suffered and died over the ignorance of men who thought they knew so much and yet they were threaten not by his strength but by his compassion and love.

  32. DoubleScorpion profile image86
    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago

    and another:

    "If women become tired or even die, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth, that is why they are there."

    Martin Luther (1483-1546)

    Leader of the German Reformation--a religious movement that led to the ultimate birth of Protestantism

  33. DoubleScorpion profile image86
    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago

    And a few more:

    The second century St. Clement of Alexandria wrote:

    "Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman."

    The sixth century Christian philosopher, Boethius, wrote in The Consolation of Philosophy,

    "Woman is a temple built upon a sewer."

    Bishops at the sixth century Council of Macon voted as to whether women had souls. In the tenth century Odo of Cluny declared,

    "To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure..."

    The thirteenth century St. Thomas Aquinas suggested that God had made a mistake in creating woman:

    "nothing [deficient] or defective should have been produced in the first establishment of things; so woman ought not to have been produced then."


    Lutherans at Wittenberg debated whether women were really human beings at all. Orthodox Christians held women responsible for all sin. As the Bible's Apocrypha states,

    "Of woman came the beginning of sin/ And thanks to her, we all must die."


    As I Corinthians 7:1 states,

    "It is a good thing for a man to have nothing to do with a woman."

  34. DoubleScorpion profile image86
    DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago

    And another:

    "What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother,

    it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman...

    I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function
    of bearing children."

    - Saint Augustine (the prominent pioneer of Western theology)

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It should be no surprise to women today that men wrote the bible and the other hate filled tome. Both are sexist in the extreme.

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
        DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And it is amazing how many women will defend their biblical beliefs to the extreme still in this day and age.

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Indoctrination causes blindness apparently. smile

          1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
            DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well you know they say "love" is blind...I guess all the "christian love" has caused some serious blindness...tongue

        2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus liberated women-havent you heard.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus%27_i … with_women

          Some of you guys really need to get into the New Testamant a lot more wink

          1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
            DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You know, speaking of Jesus, I am researching some interesting text now. And I am finding that the stories of Jesus are becoming more and more just that...Stories...there is very little evidence that Jesus even might have existed. There is a person that might have been used as the model for the stories that hold Jesus as the main character. The first written documents that held anything concerning Jesus, that we still can see today are the Pauline letters. The Gospels were written many years after the Pauline letters and were not written by the disciples, and cannot be determined if they were even written by anyone who actually knew the man Jesus was model after (or Jesus himself for that matter).

            And if in fact Jesus did Liberate women, it took well into the 21 century for it to happen in the States.

          2. thebrucebeat profile image61
            thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            All of those quotes you just heard are post-New Testament.  They are from some of the most revered names in the history of Christian theology.  This is not Old Testament rhetoric.

            You'll have to try again to discredit this valid collection of theological attacks on women.

  35. DouglasTull profile image60
    DouglasTullposted 5 years ago

    Most Christians would never in a million years even contemplate something like this so it's really not fair to use one mentally challenged person to classify an entire group of people.  That is an irrational and illogical conclusion by anyone's standards.

    1. DouglasTull profile image60
      DouglasTullposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      In my own opinion Christians have the same problems as all other groups around the world.  Every group has people who violate the basic tenets, there is no excuse, there is no defense, but if all people would look at it for what it is one person doing a terrible terrible wrong, then we could all respect one another and rationally deal with the pain and support the survivors and families who have lost so much in this attrocious attack.

    2. DouglasTull profile image60
      DouglasTullposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      In my own opinion Christians have the same problems as all other groups around the world.  Every group has people who violate the basic tenets, there is no excuse, there is no defense, but if all people would look at it for what it is one person doing a terrible terrible wrong, then we could all respect one another and rationally deal with the pain and support the survivors and families who have lost so much in this attrocious attack.

      1. 61
        ibneahmadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with you; the cause is not the religion of a person; it is the person or a group losing norms and getting to extremes.

        1. wilmiers77 profile image60
          wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The cause is not having love for God and neighbor; instead love becomes a special case of love self.

  36. tobey100 profile image60
    tobey100posted 5 years ago

    The media may refer to him as a 'conservative christian' but Christians don't kill people.

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Peter was a Christian. And he killed two people for lying about the price of the land they sold. Read the Book of Acts.

      1. aguasilver profile image85
        aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Actually it was the Holy Spirit that took their lives, Peter just asked the questions!

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ok. So God killed them for lying...Gotcha...smile

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yea the world would have given him a promotion for lying. wink

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
              DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              This particular piece of the Bible has always been of interest to me. Not only were they killed for lying, but look at what the lie was. The new christians were selling all they owned and was giving it to the church for "ALL" to share equally. They kept a part back. If they would have not lied about the amount, nothing would have happened (or so it would seem), but instead they were killed because of deceit. They is no other part of the NT where it is mentioned of this money being passed out to all.

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I havent read that particular passage for awhile now ,but I thought the sin in question was lying to the Holy Spirit? ..they were given a chance to come clean, but insisted on denying the prompting of the Holy Spirit (conscience)

                P.s Like I said ,havent read for awhile,will take another look.

                They knew the law,so they took the risk, didnt pay off , lying seldom does.

                1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                  Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Kill 'em then?  What a loving attitude. wink I deny the holy spirit all the time.

          2. aguasilver profile image85
            aguasilverposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yep, God has a thing about liars, if your memory stretches you may have seen it in the Revelations of Christ, that bit about ....and all liars?

    2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      All evidence to the contrary...

  37. SomewayOuttaHere profile image60
    SomewayOuttaHereposted 5 years ago

    ...my thoughts...first and foremost - he's a nutter, crazy, crazy dude...clung on to some belief because he had nothing going for him...and twisted his delusional mind around it and created his own version and called it 'faith in god'....f**ked up lonely person who hates, hates, hates

  38. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
    Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago

    http://treesforlunch.blogspot.com/2011/ … stian.html


    Atheism, de valuing human life for centuries.

    Darwin - the guy who inbred with another family thinking to create a super race. . . .but only created retards.  Brilliant chap, ol' Charles must have been.

    1. Evolution Guy profile image61
      Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Crikey. 80 kids have been shot and you are posting this garbage in defense of your religion? sad

      Liars for Jesus (TM) 

      Here is some up-to-date information with words from the man himself.

      http://www.christianpost.com/news/norwa … vik-52749/

      http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/anders-br … d=14152129

      1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Little man - your religion de values the lives of all humans.

  39. Greek One profile image81
    Greek Oneposted 5 years ago

    Clearly the fault lies with the makers of the online video game 'World of Warcraft', which the psycho in question played relentlessly for an entire year

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The atheist should accept that theory since that scenerio exists to them where as God doesn't .

  40. EmpressFelicity profile image84
    EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago

    DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MONITORS - THIS IS A REALITY CHECK

    Some nutter/fanatic in Norway has murdered over eighty people.

    When somebody does something horrific as this, it's kind of... irrelevant, not to say childish and insensitive, to use it as an excuse to drag out the same tired "Christian versus atheist" arguments that crop up on these forums time after sodding time.

    Get over yourselves, forf*ckssake.

  41. 60
    DataJackposted 5 years ago

    Hey did you know that Charles Darwin created the Theory of Evolution to get back at God? Not to prove he doesnt exist.

    Just to let you know

  42. Greek One profile image81
    Greek Oneposted 5 years ago

    The true conflict is not between Christian vs Muslim, right vs left, believer for non-believer

    It is totalitarianism vs freedom

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's the bottom line truth in a nutshell.

  43. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago
  44. livelonger profile image90
    livelongerposted 5 years ago

    Unsurprisingly, like the Christianists we have here, Breivik was not a Christian fundamentalist, but someone who thought "Christian" means a certain cultural identity.

    "As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus," he writes. "Being a Christian can mean many things; That you believe in and want to protect Europe's Christian cultural heritage. The European cultural heritage, our norms (moral codes and social structures included), our traditions and our modern political systems are based on Christianity – Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity and the legacy of the European enlightenment (reason is the primary source and legitimacy for authority). It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus in order to fight for our Christian cultural heritage and the European way. In many ways, our modern societies and European secularism is a result of European Christendom and the enlightenment. It is therefore essential to understand the difference between a 'Christian fundamentalist theocracy' (everything we do not want) and a secular European society based on our Christian cultural heritage (what we do want). So no, you don't need to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus to fight for our Christian cultural heritage. It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy (Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter)). The PCCTS, Knights Templar is therefore not a religious organisation [sic] but rather a Christian 'culturalist' military order."

  45. TMMason profile image73
    TMMasonposted 5 years ago

    His own words put the American left's stories and accusations to the lie.

    This man was not a Christian in any religious sense of the word.

    Just another psycho-NAZI Democrat Leftist.

    What is nice, is that America now seems to understand perfectly well that there is a great difference between an American and European "Right Winger", and America seems to know very well that a European "Right-Winger", is nothing more than an American Leant Leftist NAZI-Socialist Democrat.

    It is a beautiful day in America. smile

  46. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Altruism is an interesting development in thinking.
    It need to be seen as what it is, the application of a thought process which is both logical and sensibly selfish.
    The aim of self actualisation and the safety of the human race must be altruistic in the future because of sheer numbers.
    A friend in Brighton England has enough scientific reading on his site about human evolution to fill a library. I have been reading all the support material as well as the theories for 5 years now, and still have not read it all.
    If anyone wants to look at some well substantiated yet controversial  and well thought out ideas for our future, you may like to take a look.
    http://www.bltc.com/

    1. jacharless profile image81
      jacharlessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks Earnest. Have bookmarked that link!

      I see Altruism quite the opposite -a selfless humanity, beyond the processes of their own thoughts. I have crowed a bit on the subject, but stand firm, the indulgence of human reason is humanities only problem. I have coined it the Adamic Inception.

      sidebar. I recently caught the flick Inception, and was floored at how well the film followed the concept. The idea only need to be planted, for the human being to build entire worlds, within their minds, and maintain them -awake (conscious) or asleep (subconscious).

      James.

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        This may surprise you, but I agree it has the qualities of selflessness, as it does the most good to that which is not directly self.

        But..... the icing on top is that it is wonderfully useful to self, and in that sense is the same as much good moral behaviour. Rewarding to self in many ways.

        Collectively. (better treatment of each other brings many benefits)

        Individually. Some call it a good vibe, or see it as building karma, but either way it feels good.

        All good selfish stuff. smile

  47. wilmiers77 profile image60
    wilmiers77posted 5 years ago

    Good luck buddy! You are going to need it. Your worm shall not die.

  48. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Never could understand why everyone has to have
    a muffler except Harley riders, or cycles of that ilk.

    1. Evolution Guy profile image61
      Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Peeps of ur ilk.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You've heard them but have never seen them? LOL!

  49. Gillme profile image59
    Gillmeposted 5 years ago

    i could most definitely not understand this topic. people were random between!

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey gillme ,welcome to Hubpages smile

      Sometimes ,we go off topic,but after a while it comes back around.

      Takes some getting used to when you are new.

      1. Gillme profile image59
        Gillmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah smile

  50. preacherdon profile image79
    preacherdonposted 5 years ago

    I'll be one of the first to agree that religion probably does more harm than good. That is why Jesus is not about religion; He is about a relationship. Man is about religion.

    1. Evolution Guy profile image61
      Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      So what you are saying is - it doesn't matter when Christians do bad things because they are religionists and real Christians have an imaginary friend in their head so they are in touch with reality. Therefore no real Christian will do a bad thing , therefore Christianity is not a religion, therefore it is OK that they do bad things and really they are better than me?

      The main thing I am getting is that the 17 billion people who say they are Christians and go to church are not real Christians.

      But - you are.

      Therefore it doesn't matter how many psychopaths this religion produces because they are not real Christians, therefore your religion is a bad thing but you are not part of it so it is OK and all good really.

      Did I get that right?

      1. 61
        ibneahmadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        But they say the killings have been done by a person who is not a believer; he is an atheist; an extremist one.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You are obviously baiting with that comment. Atheism has nothing to do with the violence within religion. Religion seeks conflict and violence, as evidenced by your attempt to create conflict where none exists.

        2. Evolution Guy profile image61
          Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes - religious people are lying and saying this to defend their irrational beliefs.

          This is why your religion causes so many conflicts. You are not taught to tell the truth. sad

          1. Gillme profile image59
            Gillmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Think about this 1st....r u sure it's ONLY his religion that has so many conflicts?

          2. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I see that you don't have much experience with the masses. The masses is a bundle of energy that must be continually vented, directed, and tempered (thermometer and thermostat if I may). The only natural peace and love states comes from God; men have no natural peace. Does this imply the need for government? You bet!! Will religion help? You bet!!!! Without supervision and quidance  the masses shall self destruct.

            1. Evolution Guy profile image61
              Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Definitely not getting the vibe that you are anything close to showing peace and love and I wouldn't trust you to guide me across the street.

              Have you ever read any books? At all? I know you have not read the bible by your complete and utter lack of knowledge about what it says. I assume the same goes for all other books?

              At least you are finally getting that your religion is actually a political party and has nothing to do with Invisible Super Beings.

              1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Man, do you have narrow views. So, narrow until you actually don't address what you have read.

                1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                  Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Nope - still not feeling love from you. Nothing but animosity. Guess that makes you a liar destined to burn in hell.

                  Your choice sweetie. Oh well. sad

                  1. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Evolution Guy, I must love you because as long as I correspond with you; you are killing me! If it was not for my knowledge of the Word of God, I would never recover again.

                2. preacherdon profile image79
                  preacherdonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Wilmiers, trust me, you will get nowhere with debating religion with these people. I believe they have a reprobate mind and couldn't believe if they wanted to. They don't argue facts with facts but attack the person and their beliefs. As someone once said, Harsh words are a strong evidence of a weak argument. That why I wrote my hub, "Him Who Has Ears to Hear, Let Him Hear!"

                  1. earnestshub profile image87
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    You want to discuss facts in a religious forum? lol

                    Yeah good luck with finding a religionist who offers up any facts or evidence. I have been here almost 3 years and all I have seen is the "proof" religion offers to itself from it's own book.

                    Everything else is ignored.

                    God is true because the bible says so! lol

                  2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I must agree.

        3. wilmiers77 profile image60
          wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You got it right buddy! Any group that YOU belong to has a bad apple relative to the groups beliefs. Let's stay real!! Have you read in history all the atrocities caused by nonreligious groups?

      2. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/dktdk51/Smiley%20Icons%201/shocked.png

      3. preacherdon profile image79
        preacherdonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No, you did not. Just because a person calls themself a Christian does not mean that they are. There are atheists who physically attack Christians and even murder them. So, should I clump them altogether with you and say you are a murdering atheist? or at the very least, part of a murdering sect? What about evolutionists who theories differ from your own? Are they right or you? Or perhaps neither since you don't agree on 'the truth'.

        1. Evolution Guy profile image61
          Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Awww. Sounds like you are defending your ridiculous beliefs to me Don. This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.

          Atheism is a lack of a belief system. Unlike your belief system. Te;ll me about the atheists that murder Christians.

          Or are you lying about that as well?

          And - as you do not believ in the Flying Spaghetti Monster - are you part of that belief system? Because I heard that anti FSM people are the real killers,

          1. preacherdon profile image79
            preacherdonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            China kills Christians all the time and China is full of atheists (or so they claim)
            http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,45271,00.html

            Christian Converts Killed in China
            http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h … 5B828DF1D3

            How about N. Korea
            North Korea Executes Christian for Distributing Bibles
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/2 … 44340.html

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Who? What atheists and where?

          1. wilmiers77 profile image60
            wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            In the national news!!!!...every year.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Nope, couldn't find anything at all regarding atheists murdering Christians in any news.

              I don't think you're telling the truth. Show me and then I'll believe you.

            2. VoltaireZ profile image61
              VoltaireZposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I have to agree, when it comes to the hate crime of "atheist kills Christian," it never happens, except metaphorically when atheist exposes Christian to real history.

    2. Gillme profile image59
      Gillmeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I actually agree to that. People have created many religions, fought against each other over it and there are so many religions out there today. (Who knew God could appear on Earth so many times? ! sad

      1. preacherdon profile image79
        preacherdonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The problem with religion is that is it man-made. Religions are usually created to justify a personal belief, interpretation, or sin. When you are indcotrinated to believe a lie, you will do almost anything. Most religion are idolatrous because the god theiy serve is a god of their creation. There are christian denominations included in there, too. As a wise man once said, "Religion is man's attempt to get to God but Jesus was God attempt to get to man." Big difference.

        1. Evolution Guy profile image61
          Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Garbage. You are a religionists like all the others. LOLOLOL

          1. gmv profile image78
            gmvposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Your the only one laughing. tongue

            1. gmv profile image78
              gmvposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              And so if one atheist or evolutionist like yourself goes out and murders a large group of people I guess that makes all of you bad people.

              1. gmv profile image78
                gmvposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Evolution Guy on HubPages
                I came across hubpages accidentally while surfing the internet and was shocked to discover that there are people arguing against evolution for religious reasons.

                I am not entirely certain what gives people the idea that they are qualified to have an opinion on evolutionary biology because they have read a religious book, but I hope to spend some time here helping to educate those people about evolution.

                I am a biologist by trade and spent some 8 years studying for my degree. I would not say I am offended that religious people think I am a liar, but I hope to set the record straight.

                I studied using time tested methods - meditation, prayer and rigorous introspection whilst reading up on Marx, Hitler, Lenin and all the other great evolutionists and finally got my degree awarded to me in Las Vegas at the Hotel California reception by Elvis Presley in 2005. The real Elvis - not some fake impersonator.

                So - you can take my qualifications as impeccable by religious standards and hands down beat any backwoods religionists' bible study science degree by a massive order of magnitude.

                As you may also have guessed - I am a sock puppet for a well-known Internet personality who no longer wishes to be visible. But still wants to have some fun mocking God's fan club in the forum threads they start.

                Look at this guy!!! Elvis Presley died in 1977.  It's funny how he came back to give you your degree.  Do you believe in time travel too??

        2. Tumbletree profile image62
          Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Uhm, what belief system isn't man made?

          1. Cavell.Fourie profile image78
            Cavell.Fourieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Tumbletree. Let me answer that for you. Christianity. Many people call themselves Christians. but are simply religiou,  based on the Bible, A real Christian knows Jesus as a person and has a personal relationship with Christ, the saviour who died, not only for those who choose to love Him. but also for those who hate Him. These are not your religious fanatics who kill, but those who would die to bring the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.  Most people in the world call us hater,. but the word say's "No greater love has he. than he who would lay down his life for a friend"   much less a stranger or enemy.... To all those who judge Christianity -
            First study what a true Christian is, before judging him.

            1. Tumbletree profile image62
              Tumbletreeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Your Jesus is your own imagination reacting your own emotional and mental perceptions. You call it Jesus, other call it God, Buddha, the collective unconscious, and so on. If Jesus was any more real, if he was what so many Christians claim, he could easily make an appearance on the Late Show and put this whole thing to rest. Don't give me the faith arguement. My nieces have faith in Santa Claus.

              It doesn't mean there is no "other," something that you can personify as Jesus, but it does mean that your beliefs aren't any truer than any others.

              1. louisxfourie profile image80
                louisxfourieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Rom 14:11  For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
                Rom 14:12  So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

              2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "...Jesus...your imagination..."? Jesus is in recorded history. Due to virgin birth, miracles performed..., and rose alive after death by crucifixion, he is unique. 

                Who among your teachers have risen from the grave?

                1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  There is no recorded history of Jesus other than in your corrupted novel, no matter how much you wish it were true.  Why be so untruthful about it?  But perhaps you have proof otherwise?

                  1. lizzieBoo profile image78
                    lizzieBooposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Randy, I think it's you who has the prejudice... you don't want it to be true. You deal with that by telling yourself that people who want to believe it are ignorant.

                  2. wilmiers77 profile image60
                    wilmiers77posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes I do! Have you heard of google? If so, research governmental records of Romans and Jews. You won't believe me; so read it for yourself.