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Should we expect God to punish us when we disobey him?

  1. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
    lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/5330440_f248.jpg
    We as christian are taught that we must live by what we learn in the bible. We must treat our trangressers as we have also trangressed against someone as well.
    Hebrews 5:8
    Although He was a Son, He learned [active, special] obedience through what He suffered

    1. wba108@yahoo.com profile image85
      wba108@yahoo.composted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have a different take on this in that suffering is not necessarily a punishment. It says that those who bear fruit will be pruned so they will be more fruitful. So it isn't a punishment to be pruned but the mark of a father son relationship. Hardships come with a redeptive purpose and not necessarily do to any evil doing on our part.

      1. Ms Dee profile image86
        Ms Deeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        wba's thinking is along the line of what I believe the Bible teaches, too.

    2. Freegoldman profile image62
      Freegoldmanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, he cares very much about our actions, both the good actions, and the bad (sinful) actions. If I were you, I wouldn't be listening to the former advice you got! God gave each of us a conscience...con means with...and science means knowledge...so each time we sin, we do it with knowledge that it's wrong. He also wrote his Laws upon our hearts...let me ask you a quick question...do you think that you're a good person? Under men's standards, each of us can think of ourselves as being good...however, we should be looking at what God requires instead. God gave us the Ten Commandments so that we could figure out how we measure up to His standards. 9th Commandment - Have you ever lied? If so, that makes you a liar. 8th Commandment - Have you ever stolen anything, regardless of its value? If so, you're a thief. 3rd Commandment - Have you ever taken God's name in vain? If so, you have taken the name of the God that gave you life and dragged it through the mud, and the Bible calls that blasphemy. Jesus said that if you do so much as look at someone with lust, you commit adultery in your heart. If a person is being honest, the majority would have to answer yes to all of the above. And if you did, you just admitted that God would see you as a lying, thieving, blaphemous, adulterer at heart...and this is only 4 of the 10 Commandments. Then you have to ask yourself the following two questions...would God find you innocent or guilty of breaking His laws? If you're honest, you would have to say that you're just as guilty as the rest of us...would He send you to heaven or hell? Most people here would say heaven, thinking that He would have to be a more forgiving God than this...think about what you're saying here...if God were to let people go into heaven, who have broken His laws, then He would be an unjust (corrupt) judge. Now, let me ask you a final question...what did God do so that we would not have to go to hell?...Two thousand years ago, God became a man in Jesus Christ

    3. Obscure_Treasures profile image62
      Obscure_Treasuresposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Now everyone who accepts that sacrifice - the sacrifice of Jesus as the Lamb of God - is forgiven, redeemed and reconciled to God. Jesus' death paid the total price of sin! There is no price left to pay.

      All you, me or anyone else has to do is accept by faith God's merciful act in Jesus and the law of sin and death will no longer have a hold on our lives. The law of the spirit of life in Christ will make us free from all of the miseries arising from sin both now and hereafter. (Romans 8:2)

      For the believer there is no fearful expectation of punishment but intense joy at salvation.




      If you have not yet accepted Jesus and His sacrifice you can do so now by praying this simple prayer.

          "Heavenly Father, I accept your Son Jesus as my Lord and Saviour. I accept the sacrifice He made for me. I invite Jesus to come into my heart and life. I believe that Jesus is alive today because You, Father, raised Him from the dead. I accept Him and with Him I accept life - eternal life, the life of God. I now receive my privilege of becoming your child, I renounce citizenship of the kingdom of darkness and receive citizenship of the kingdom of your Son. In Jesus' Name, I pray. Amen."


      Link to this text: Saved from the consequences of sin! - How can God ever punish us for our sins? http://www.teachingpages.co.uk/answers. … z1TlLACjQ4

    4. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The whole idea of Jesus suffering and dieing on the cross wasn't about us having to suffer in order to be saved.

         At that time when a person owed a debt that he couldn't pay, they were sent to the auction block, and sold as slaves for a period of time until that debt was paid.

        That persons friends or family or even a total stranger is given the oppertunity to redeem that person by paying the debt,allowing that person being redeamed to go free.

        Mankinds sins were great. the price of redemption would have been great. Jesus paid a great price in his suffering.
      As the story goes, his suffering could not have been greater.

        Jesus didn't learn obedience. He taught obedience.

      Just my opinion!

    5. KeithTax profile image79
      KeithTaxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Why should He punish us? We are created in His own image. We only do what part of Him would do.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Using that analysis then my kids should do 50% of what I do?

        Aint happening...even though they have that potential,and who knows maybe in a way they do already.


        If we understand the image God is talking about then perhaps we would understand the whole concept better smile

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Wouldn't a more accurate statement be if we could understand the image your personal opinion of what God is talking about we'd understand your whole concept better? I haven't seen evidence of a consensus among the religious, as of yet.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Inaccurate ,but nice try at twisting my thoughts wink

            Because you dont even know what my concept is?  roll

            You know what they say about 'assume' ahem

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hey. I missed this one.  There was no insult intended.  The point was simply that is your take on the whole thing. Doesn't mean that it's the word of any god. It's your understanding. Called me an *ss did you? Well, I oughta.... smile

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes you are correct ,it is my take on 'Gods word'

                And nooooooo...well yes ....but was including myself in that 'assume' cliche smile

    6. 0
      SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Just as a dad might correct his son for doing something he wasn't supposed to do, God will likewise correct his children.  People like to use the word punish because it sounds more violent than using the word correct.

      A dad who does not correct his children, does not love his children.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Good point Sir Dent
        And of course the word discipline, comes from the word disciple ,which meant to instruct and teach.

        Far to much common sense there. smile lol

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't know why some fight so hard against using common sense.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        A dad who drowns all of his children, or turns them into pillars of salt, or commands people to wipe out towns and villages to correct them is a mass murderer.

        1. 0
          SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



          So you are saying that if your child played on the freeway after you told him not to, it is then your fault if he does not listen to you and ends up getting run over by a semi?

          God said, "Touch not and handle not the unclean thing.  The wages of sin is death, so don't sin and you will live."

          How many times must a person be warned of danger before it is enough?

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            How do you draw that conclusion? I never said anything about laying blame.

            But, if my child was playing on the freeway after I told him not to, I certainly wouldn't drown him or turn him into a pillar salt as a way to correct him.



            How many times will God kill people as a way of correcting them? Do you kill people to correct them? Is that moral?

            1. 0
              SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Lot's wife was told not to look back.  She did it anyway and she paid the price.  You ddid lay blame when you said that God kills His children.



              When you buy fruit at the market and all of it doesn't get eaten and what's left rots, do you keep the rotten fruit?

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Of course not!  You send the fruit to burn in eternal hellfire.  I hope those bananas learn their lesson from now on.  lol

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



                  So you send them to the garbage heap, (Gehenna)?

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Good analogy, Dent.  If you can throw bananas in the garbage heap and they stay there for eternity, it would be a fantastic breakthrough for food preservation.  smile

              2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Lots wife was murdered for looking back? Is that how your god shows his love to his children? Is that how you would discipline your children, SirDent?

                Sorry, but I have a lot more appreciation for human beings than I do fruit. I don't just discard humans like I would a rotten apple.

                Would you just throw away your children if they were "rotten"?

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  She was warned not to look back and she knew that something bad would happen if she did.  (I already went over this in a previous comment to you) 

                  Tell a child to not put a screwdriver in an outlet because it will hurt them.  If they do it anyway and they get hurt, who is at fault?



                  I imagine if one of your children was to pass before you, you would keep it's body with you at all times?

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    If I use your the same logic from the above example of Lot's wife being warned and losing her life towards your second example, I would have to kill my child for putting the screwdriver into the outlet. Is that correct?



                    No, but I also wouldn't kill my child as a form of punishment.

          2. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Why not merely say "the bible says" instead of "God says"?  There is no actual basis your god said anything, Dent. What you have is merely hearsay written long before you ever existed on this planet.

            Do you speak for your god? Or merely quote from a book written by anonymous authors claiming to speak for your god?  Stick to "the bible says" if you wish to be truthful here.  smile

            1. 0
              SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



              Sometimes I do speak for my God.  Just because you do not believe, doesn't mean God didn't speak. 

              It is like this, in a way.  I can tell you what my son said and if I tell you what he said you might believe it or not but you can't say for sure because you do not know him.  Since I know what he actually said, I know it personally.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Well my god Moe says you are full of it, Dent.  He says"gods which use terror to gain followers are on the low rung of the god ladder and their followers are still standing on the ground."

                Do you believe Moe is wrong?  smile

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



                  It doesn't matter what Moe says. Yes, I believe Moe is wrong though I have no idea who Moe is, unless you are speaking of Mohammad.

              2. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                How exactly did you "know what your god said.?  Were you actually there when he told the anonymous writer?  smile  I'm looking forward to reading "The gospel according to Sir Dent."

                I certainly hope you don't depend on someone else to wait several hundreds of years before putting your actual words down like those in your book.  I might not be around to read your supposed words then.  lol

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



                  The Gospel according to Dent.

                  All are sinners and have gone against God.  God made a way out of getting thrown into the garbage heap, (Gehenna). Jesus is the way.  Accept Him and be saved.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Jesus? There is no record of such a person with this name ever existing other than in your novel written long after he was supposedly alive.

                    So I feel Moe is the way instead.  Besides, I just can't get past your god knocking up a 13 year old, already betrothed virgin while she was asleep.  I wonder why he had to choose such a very young female who was already promised to someone else?  What does your novel have to say about this? 

                    Do you consider this being "godly" if it happens today?

        2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          ...But if your countrys leader orders it done ,they get a special day to honor them? not too mention a hefty salary..



          There are consquences for breaking ANY law.
          Don't you think if mankind quit being so stubborn and hardheadedlife just might go a little easier on him.

          It is often said that history is the greatest teacher, and I know if I kept getting my hand burned every time I reached into the fire, I would seriously be looking at a new way of doing things by now.

          Or the alternative ( and some cry ..not fair..we want the benefits ,but no change in our behaviour or attitude) just carry on doing whatever you want and accept the consquences.
          You might not like it, agree with it, or even understand it,but as sure as sun follows day, Gods laws are His laws,it is a brave (or foolish man who would rebel knowingly.
          As I said history predicts.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            It's not Gods laws I have so much a concern with as the punishments inflicted, which are usually fatal.

            I don't see how the taking of ones life is a corrective behavior that should be taught by a religion, especially for "crimes" like looking back over ones shoulder.

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I dont understand that either .I am glad that I have never ever had to contemplate that instruction ,bit of a no brainer for me really.
              Wouldnt do it,but then again Ive never needed to die for the worlds sins either.

  2. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 5 years ago

    What god?

    1. kmackey32 profile image83
      kmackey32posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol

    2. 60
      randallfposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Very good point

  3. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago

    Which god?  There have been hundreds of gods in this planets history.  All invisible, so far.

  4. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
    lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago

    I am speaking of the one who sent his son to die for your sins.

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      A god sent his son to die for other peoples' sins?

      Do you know how idiotic a father must be, to do something of that nature? lol

    2. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      How do you know the other gods didn't do the same?

    3. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And you are probably speaking to those who believe.

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Actually EK, he is speaking to everyone. It is a public forum.

    4. Woman Of Courage profile image60
      Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lamarkyoung, Jesus dying for the sins of everyone is the greatest love of all. smile Awesome! God is full of wisdom and he has made a way to save all of us. Repentance and receiving Christ is the key.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It would seem that killing your son was more a knee-jerk reaction and not very wise.

        It would have been so simple for God to just show himself to everyone and show everyone his love. That's wisdom.

      2. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What a big deal sacrifice your god made.  Now if he wasn't able to simply bring his illegitimate offspring right back to life whenever he chose, it might make sense.  What did he have to lose?  lol

  5. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
    lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago

    It does not sound idiotic to me  you must take into effect that God is your FATHER as well, so for him to send anyone to die for the sins you have committed you should rejoice. Because a sinner like yourself would not have done this for himself. If your faith is weak it is you who shall peraish so if you never come to the Lord then it would be your lost. LET me ask you a question what are you gonna do when the Lord asks you on JUDGEMENT DAY  why you knowing my laws and ways chose to ignore them? Should I ignore you know the same way?

  6. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
    lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago

    I know not about the Gods you speak. So if you have some relavent knowledge of some other God then you know something I don't. If you chose to follow false Gods then you shall be judged on your actions, so go with what you believe but you are anyone else can ever shake my faith in the one and only true God.

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I am not speaking of a god, you are.
      Well, the god you seem to be talking about came directly from a book or from your imagination.
      What god?

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Read the OP, dude. Duh.

        1. Cagsil profile image83
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I read the OP. But, thank you for your useless input. You're a shining example. roll

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Did you not understand it then? Why ask such a silly question?

            1. Cagsil profile image83
              Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Sure, I understood it. Is there a particular reason why you are questioning my questioning of the OP? I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. Do you foolishly ask people stupid questions, when they are not talking to you? roll
              Silly question? Only you are asking such questions. My question was legitimate. Too bad you don't know the difference.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I was hoping some day you might make a post that doesn't contain insults, but that is far too much to ask.

                If you understood the OP, in which the author says he is a Christian and posted something with the word "Jesus" on it, why would you ask what god he was referring? Isn't that obvious?



                So, you're saying your question was legitimate even though the OP says he is a Christian. Please explain how asking him what god he is talking about is legitimate?

                1. Cagsil profile image83
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Again, seeing insults that doesn't exist. Good for you.
                  Jesus was a human man. What's your point?
                  No it's not obvious, because Jesus was just a very intelligence human.
                  Yes.
                  And, you're the last person on this f*ing planet I need to explain myself to. Get a life.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    They exist and you wrote them. Not good for you.



                    LOL! Playing dumb now? Are you actually saying that in all the time you've been here and living on this planet, you don't know that Christians consider Jesus as their god? What a whopper! lol



                    Wow! Serious anger issues there, pal. I suppose that's what happens when an inflated ego gets stuck with pins. LOL!

                  2. Andrew0208 profile image60
                    Andrew0208posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Cagsil, I don't know why you may choose to make mockery of peoples' belief even if you claim not to believe in anything. Thats 100% unruly. Live and let others live!

                2. IntimatEvolution profile image81
                  IntimatEvolutionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I have to agree with your points here.  The original poster clearly put this under the subdomain of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus...  So his "what god" question was truly pointless. 

                  I think he was just trying to be cute or something.  But Cags was certainly not trying to contribute to this "public forum" where everyone has the right to answer whomever they like.

                  1. Cagsil profile image83
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Correct, on two point IE, it is a public forum, which I am part of the public. lol And, secondly it is my right to question anything I choose to. lol

                  2. Randy Godwin profile image93
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The OP is assuming for everyone there is but one god.  Unless he can prove this is so, others with different gods might take offense.  My god Moe doesn't need to torment mortals for eternity or molest 13 year old virgins either.  A much nicer god than yours, apparently.  smile

                  3. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It's obvious he's just baiting and trolling the author of the OP.

        2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Exactly ...


          He begins the OP AS 'We as Christians'...AND since you are not a Christian Cags, why did you think he was speaking to you ?

          1. Cagsil profile image83
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hey EK, what part do you NOT get with regards to it being a public forum?

            He was speaking to ALL people. It makes NO difference what the heading of it.

            1. IntimatEvolution profile image81
              IntimatEvolutionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              It does make a difference what headings were or are used.  You were out of line.  Still are...  so be a grown up here admit it and move on.

            2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Do you think by being condscending it will change the facts...


              (And it wasnt the title ,I was refering to,it was the OP's question)

              If someone asks a question about God ,you respond by what God?

              There are times when saying nothing at all -says it best of all.

              Oh my! roll

              1. Cagsil profile image83
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, there are times when saying nothing is a good thing and there are also times when saying nothing is BAD too.

                1. Andrew0208 profile image60
                  Andrew0208posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Well observed...You must not use abusive words like 'idiot' in the forums no matter the discusions whatsoever. If God doesn't exist in your existence then give way for others to exist as you do. You can only explain properly what you know, and not what you don't know about(God), as He(Spirit), in your claim; does not exist.

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well said ,another words ,respect.

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    People with over-inflated egos never consider anything they say as being insulting. They can say whatever they want, and then they'll say everyone else has an ego problem.

                    lol

  7. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    Yep I disciplined my kids ,so I expect any loving parent to correct and instruct.

    God is not a Santa Claus or sugar daddy wink

  8. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
    lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago

    Yes I am talking to true believers, but not limited to, just us because say they don't believe that is not there whole story half of them have been hurt or disappointed and have never came to terms with it so they tend to lash out. I don't mind because as long as they are coming at me it is a chance to bring them to our Lord so send them all and in the end our Lord will get the glory

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I see no great sacrifice if your god can simply bring his son back to life.  Perhaps you can enlighten me how this is a big deal?  If he had left him dead it might seem like he actually lost something instead of merely going through the motions.

      I'll wager you inherited your beliefs from your parents or never actually looked at what other religions had to offer.  Am I wrong?

  9. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    OP ..Should we expect God to punish us when we disobey him?

      I don't think so !   Most often the deed that we do comes around or eventually takes it's toll.

      Most often what we understand to be punishment; isn't at all.

      Sometimes God places a road block in front of us which keeps us from falling over the edge, and  we understand that to be punishment....   BUT it isn't.

      Unfortunately!  sometimes other people think that by doing a good thing doing Gods work by helping that person over their "Times of trouble"  When in fact they are not. they are removing Gods barrier of protection.

      Ssooo to answer the OP ...   I don't think God punishes us here on earth. The product of the deeds we have done does that.
     
      BUT, this too is just an opinion.

  10. 0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    No one should be punished for not obeying God as defined by your faith.  It would be unreasonable.

    Not taking into account any but the monotheistic faiths; you claim a God and believe that you have to abide by the words in the Bible and only by agreeing with you can someone know God. The Jews claim a God and believe they must live by the laws in their Torah, they are the true children of God. The Muslims claim a God and must live by the words in their Quran; everyone else are infidels.  Reality shows no sign of any God.

    You fight between yourselves within the religions, you fight amongst yourselves between the religions.  The examples you set are rife with prejudice, injustice and a lack of compassion for your fellow man.  Why would anyone think that, if there is a God, any of you have any relationship with one at all?

    Would a kind and omnipotent presence expect any intelligent human being to make a choice and follow any of your leads? I couldn't imagine one expecting that. 

    So, if there is a God; it is obvious this God has chosen to not weigh in on human affairs. There is no Divine retribution for not listening to religious tripe.

    1. 0
      jomineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Precise.

  11. 0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    I submit the last five minutes of discussion on this thread as clear evidence that there is no God that punishes us.  Otherwise, there'd be a few people sent to the corner until they could kiss and make up.  Sheesh.

  12. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago

    What a laugh this thread is!  Check any evolution forum topic here and you will find many "christians" weighing in with all sorts of ridiculous claims (some of them here on this very forum) trying to ridicule a theory some of us "believe in" and discuss for it's scientific value.   

    These believers do not believe in evolution, just as we feel the same about their invisible deities.  But do we tell them they should not comment or give their opinions because they don't believe in evolution?  No, they have a right to do so just as we do here.  smile

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Excellent point.

    2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No Randy its not about differences of opinion at all.

      More in the delivery (perhaps)

      It is the respect or disrespect often shown when someone (anyone) voices or challenges another post.

      In itself should be no biggy,but well we can see tis not always that way lol


      By the way I am a Christian and believe all living things adapt and some species do evolve...but they never recreate a perfect new breed.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps you are correct, EK.  Judging another person's "delivery" is often a reason to dislike the contents.  smile

  13. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
    lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago

    It is not your right to comment on anything but if you are commenting just to cause chaos then you are wrong. If you don't believe in God then then it is clear this topic was not for you but it is always the non- believers that want to argue or debate what you beleive in. Just like it is your choice to beleive in what you do. It is always your responiblity to reframe from insulting others beleifs as well. So if you can not do this there is no need for you ridcule others beleifs. At the end of the day we are suppose to be able not to offend people everytime we open our mouths to voice our opinons.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      But it is YOUR right to tell me what my rights are?  Yep, I do believe you are a typical self proclaimed christian.   Tell it all brother!  lol

      1. IntimatEvolution profile image81
        IntimatEvolutionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It is a public forum.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          This what Cags and I said in the beginning.  smile

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Here are a couple of other things Cags said in this thread, one of which he was unable to back up and the other contradicted himself. His sound bites are for the most part quite nonsensical.



            1. Randy Godwin profile image93
              Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Cags speaks his own mind just as you and I do.  I don't know if you are new here or are merely posting under a different user name to hide your identity, but so far your credibility is in question because of your recent arrival and because you've no hubs to peruse.

              Not saying your opinion is worthless, just that your presence here lacks any basis to judge your opinions well at this point.  It's the same for any newbie who suddenly begins to post regularly on these forums.  I've been there too.  smile

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Allow me to point out the flaw in that argument.

                My credibility has everything to do with what I say, not where I say it, when I say it or how long I've been saying it. Having no hubs or being a recent arrival as a reason for credibility would conclude that those who have hubs and have been here longer than me MUST be credible. You and I both know that isn't valid by any stretch.

                Read what I say here and now if you wish to judge me honestly rather than just looking at my hub count or date of joining. They mean nothing at all.

                Cagsil has lots of hubs and has been here a long time, but it is so easy to show his arguments to be invalid and contradictory. He makes nonsensical claims that he can't support. Is he credible? Not by a long shot.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Nope, this shows you don't understand very much about these forums.  Can you judge a stranger's worth in a very few minutes and rely on his word as much as you do a trusted longtime acquaintance?  From your previous posts I would say you can't. 

                  But perhaps you have unique powers not given to rest of us here?  Once again, if you do have this special talent, we will eventually find this out too.  But no one gets a free ride here, TM.  Even those with unusual powers.

                  You are a stranger here.  You will eventually earn your own credibility, either good or bad.  smile

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I understand forums perfectly, this one is no different than any other. Obviously, your explanation doesn't hold water because I can read your posts to see you don't rely on many peoples words who have been here a long time as you argue, debate and even ridicule them.



                    My credibility will not be based on earning time spent here or anywhere else, but instead will be based on how well you or anyone else can debate me here and now.

                    Cagsil has fallen short dramatically. Do you find he has credibility based on his posts or the fact he has been here longer than me?

  14. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    Well in answer to your original post

    Yes God is a loving Father and if we love our kids we discipline them.

  15. 61
    Robert Pruittposted 5 years ago

    and of course I can see only arguments...when we should be all Unity!

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      All I see is your shadow ,but welcome smile

  16. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

    Sorry to hear Cags


    Hugs.

    1. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you EK.

  17. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Great logical ideas here. God "prunes" 3 month old babies to a horrible painful death for what good reason again?

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      On the emotional side that is sad,very sad.

      But if we think with our heads as well as our hearts then we might ask
      why dont we feel equally sad for the stubborness and hardheadedness of mankinds decisions,that reap Gods effects.

      Its Gods creation ,his purpose is for perfection (in the end)

      Mankinds goal is if it feels good ,or makes us rich ,or beautiful ,pursue these things.

      Wont always be good for us ,but what the hell,only live once -right?

      Wrong.

    2. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The worst part of it is, the religious think it makes sense and is somehow justified.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        They have been told this from a very young age, Emile.  They cannot help themselves.  Guilt trips, fear, threats, shame, all of these things are used to shape a child's thinking processes by the parents and church.  It's a wonder any of us escaped being the same way.  smile

        Be thankful.

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I know I'm thankful!
          Once you are in it, it sticks to the boots somethin awful. smile

        2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thats so untrue Randy

          I was told off love and forgiveness and about a man who walked among men.

          Still I cant say what others learned.

          Do abused parents indoctrinate their abused kids to abuse?

          Does an alcoholic mother indoctrinate their kid to drink?

          How does a kid from a good home become a murderer?

          There are so many stories of indoctrination, which I hardly think the right word anyway ,but its handy catch phrase that athiests like to use.
          Can't blame the  churchy people have jargon too.

          I learned about Spirituality among tons of other things..Polynesian dancing ,General Knowledge,how to survive in the bush ,eat bugs ,cook for a large family.
          Raised step sons ,as well as my own.
          Helped many young people.

          Indoctrination is not the right word at all, or if it is ,it served me and my community well.
          (And everyone still has their dignity and freedom, for example...the hooker who needs food ,or a ride to the hospital...or the choir who needed billeting ,a choir made up entirely from parents who had died of aids!

          Gosh ,real love breeds good love NOT bad things.
          The world screwed me up and its me me me mentality. Or always looking to blame someone (usually God).

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            There's always "me" in everyone, EK.  It's engrained in our basic instincts as a survival trait developed over millions of years.  To deny it is ridiculous as I've never met anyone without this trait.

            This doesn't mean it has to run your life for you, but neither does it mean someone else is helping you curb the urge.  But some feel they cannot control themselves alone, and others cannot do it even with help.  Human beings.  smile

            But you are wrong about religious indoctrination, EK.  If you started teaching a child to drink as early as some are taught about a god and hammer in that it's the right thing to do, I doubt the child would grow up normally.  Ever heard of Hitler Youth?

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              That extreme does deserve the word 'indoctrination' but that word is bandied about to include all normal ,average ,peaceful ,loving families.

              Just over used in my opinion.


              Funnily enough in all my 30 odd years of parenting, I never once punished one of my kids and said ..this is what God would want? (or anything with Gods name in it)....

              I disciplined simply to make them be able survive later in adulthood.....and they are doin great -most of the time ,lol

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Good for you, EK.  I assume they don't attend Sunday School either? smile

                I really don't intend to paint all believers with the same brush.  Just those telling me I'm gonna spend eternity in hell because I don't believe as they do.  smile

                I don't consider you one of those types, by the way.

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks Randy ,I dont consider you to be one of those either ,hehe tongue

                  Well they went to church for some of their childhood ,to be honest it was a fun time for them ,and I know this because I was a Sunday school teacher.

                  Small community church ,supportive ,caring and practical. A safe place for anyone who didnt want to go to a bar for company,non-judgemental for the immigrant who had no family, and truly a hangout for teens ,so they could play basketball and be safe (specially if they came from abusive type households)

                  This environment was safe ,friendly and most of all introduced us to different lifestyles that they might not have experienced.

                  I do think its really sad that many people today Christians and Non Christians have no idea ,no compassion and no desire to be tainted and keep their distance around less fortunate than themselves.

                  Today my sons are much older ,they dont have kids of their own yet ,and their opinions and idea are as diverse as everyone on here.

                  So yes I unfluenced them with  a spiritual flavour, prayed with them ,talked about Jesus ,but the greatest thing I wanted to give them was an open mind.

                  Trust me when I say -they do , in fact the 23 yr old is ready to rule the world -ha lol

        3. 0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I am thankful, but considering the way they act out their religion there should be a law against them raising kids.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Jonestown is an excellent example of your thoughts.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Jonestown, Waco, Westboro Baptist, murdered abortion doctors; the list goes on and on. The scary thing is they'll never stop.

              When I read the Christian posts telling all of us how right they are, I always think about something John Teehen said "violence done in the name of religion is not a perversion of religious belief... but flows naturally from the moral logic inherent in many religious systems, particularly monotheistic religions..."

              It's a little sobering to know that they would be willing to do anything they decided in their minds was done in the name of their religion.

          2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            There are many laws protecting children actually.

            Unfortunatley children being badly treated has little to do with religion and more to do with bad parenting period.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Watch the pentecostal videos where they are indoctrinating the children in how to speak in tongues and then say that. It's abuse of the worst kind imo.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Jesus Camp being a prime example of such videos.  smile

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I watched one bailey bear posted. Shocking footage. I couldn't believe it was allowed in America today. If anything other than an organization that laid claim to affiliation with christianity had done it they would have been arrested.

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Why were they not?

              2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I am not disagreeing with you ,but question the abuse that you see there?

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Small children are taught some pretty horific nursery rhymes too,about death and men chopping off heads..hmm..gave me nightmares.

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yep! We left those "and pecked off his nose" types of tales out, as I recall it upset me when they cooked my favourite singer, the blackbird! lol

                2. 0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Abuse is teaching children to fantasize tongues and ridiculous things any sane person knows is foolish. It's raising children to think backward ideas are somehow the will of a God. That people become possessed by spirits or demons. It's indoctrination of the worst kind. Raising them to be walking idiots.

                  I have no problem with an intelligent and considered approach to the question of God. People believe and there will always  be those who do that. But, children should be raised so that they can eventually make their own minds up. And  know whatever they decide is right for them. And not be saddled with conflict brought on by trying to resolve reality with some insane take on religion.

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I believe children need a balanced view ,so they can choose freely for themselves.

                    For example only teaching them evolution, indoctrinates as well,just on another belief system.

                    The extreme examples you presented are not the norm and one I have never agreed with.

                    The USA excercise freedom of religion ,and I assume that also means freedom to form atheistic groups/clubs as well.

                    There are hundreds of strange groups out there -strange to my thinking at least.

  18. Merlin Fraser profile image77
    Merlin Fraserposted 5 years ago

    When the Christian first arrived in Great Britain and started trying to convert the Pagans using their usual tactics of the Fear of eternal damnation in Hell for those that sinned against their God.

      One of the Pagan Shaman asked, "If we sinned against this God before we you told us about him will we still go to this Hell of yours?"

    The missionaries answered "No... Not if you did not know he existed !"

    The Shaman then asked; "Then why did you tell us about him ?"

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      This is similar to what Mark Twain said after visiting Hawaii, Merlin.

      "I felt so sorry for those happy islanders because they lived their entire lives in such a beautiful paradise and never knew there was a hell." (paraphrased)

      lol

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yep we could still be collecting shrunken heads, eating one another wink

        I do agree actually that many missionaries were nasty horny men who raped the women and deceived the people ,in the name of the King... blah blah blah

        In a way no different to how and why World leaders decide war isnt it.

        For civil reasons -right

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Is that a bad thing? Should I sell my collection? smile

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yikes- lmao

        2. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't think the Hawaiians shrunk heads, EK.  lol  But the missionaries-Gods chosen- decimated the beautiful islands with disease and destroyed most of the recorded history of the people there. 

          In almost every case when explorers contacted new civilizations they were christians for the most part.  And in almost every case they enslaved and killed a large portion of the population, either directly, or through enslavement and disease.

          I'm sure someone will find an excuse for these native's first introduction to the wonderful god who wished to be loved and worshiped.

          Sounds like a fine plan.  smile

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No ,some of my ancestors hail from Hawaiki-nui and my ancestors did live a disease free live thats for sure.

            Those UK missionaries did a lot of harm I agree.


            But you are confusing religion with christianity (IMO) smile

            1. Randy Godwin profile image93
              Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No-you are confusing christianity with religion.  smile

              1. Andrew0208 profile image60
                Andrew0208posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The reality of what Christianity stands for is far beyond the concepts of religion, but it is the life of Christ in a believer. It is a faith walk, neither is it just a religion, dogmas nor doctrines. Religion is not God, and God is not religion. It has indeed caused much harm to mankind than ever thought even in the days of Christ Jesus till date.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No.  It is simply superstition such as ancient men used for their gods also.  If there is one god, then there may be many.  So far, none choose to show up anywhere.  Shy, are they?  smile

                  1. Andrew0208 profile image60
                    Andrew0208posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    No. God is a Spirit. Doesn't operate nor be seen, understood by mere sensory perception. It's beyond being traditional, religious, and scientific. I think faith is not film. smile

                  2. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    This has been coined a period of grace.
                    In time I believe ALL truth will be revealed as God said it would.

                    Reality for some is ,they dont believe him now ,perhaps they never will.

                    I hope not.

                2. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No religion= no god, no jesus. smile

                  1. Andrew0208 profile image60
                    Andrew0208posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    God is a Spirit. Religion is man made.  smile

                3. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Very true.

  19. 59
    ibneahmadposted 5 years ago

    Should we expect God to punish us when we disobey him?


    We need some treatment or rehabilitation if we disobey the Creator God.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Some need it anyway. lol

  20. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Back soon, off to buy a pie lol

  21. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Thank goodness it is just a load of old washing then! smile

  22. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    or... we could ignore it and see it as a pile of old washing. smile

  23. A Troubled Man profile image60
    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago

    Allow me to offer you another example, Randy.

    Another member here, thebrucebeat, joined around 5 months ago, has 4 hubs and just over 600 posts, yet he is one of the only actual credible posters here. Few if any here can come close to meeting or exceeding his well thought and detailed responses.

    As you can see, I am judging him based on what he says here and now, not how long he's been here or how many hubs he's written.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And your point is what?  Your criteria for judging others posts are better than others here?  lol

      I've noticed no sparkling wit or spectacular genius indicated in any of your posts, so why should I take your word for anything more than it is?  Here is where writing a hub could help you.  You get to show us all how wonderfully insightful you are and how the rest of us cannot compare with your intellectual superiority.  A no-lose situation for you.  smile

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No, my point was that you make it sound like gaining credibility is winning a popularity contest.



        That's what I was trying to explain. We agree.



        Come now, you really don't give yourself anywhere near enough credit, it would be a no-lose situation for you, too. smile

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          A popularity contest is your take on my statement, I can't help your false assumptions.  Your special abilities fail you once again. 

          Not attempting to give myself any credit at all, TM.  I'm trying to find someway to garner some for you.  smile

  24. Cagsil profile image83
    Cagsilposted 5 years ago

    Let's see if this solves the problem. Apparently TM doesn't understand nor has he ever read a bible of any version.

    Psalm 82:5-7

    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    5 They do not know nor do they understand;
    They walk about in darkness;
    All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
    6 [a]I said, “You are gods,
    And all of you are sons of the Most High.

    7 “Nevertheless you will die like men
    And fall like any one of the princes.”

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      First of all, well done. You finally offered something that supported your claim, sort of. Here's an explanation of that passage and it doesn't look like Jesus is actually calling everyone gods, especially to the extreme that would warrant one to be so confused in believing that the OP was referring to this particular quote.

      Psalm 82 is directed at some Jewish leaders who were being partial in their treatment of others. They were showing partiality to the wicked, and not helping the weak, fatherless, afflicted, and the poor. They were abusive, self-serving leaders.

      Therefore, God challenged them to help those in need, but they did not care. God knew that they would not change even before He warned them; therefore, He rebuked them saying they were like gods. They acted like gods, but they are going to die just like mortal men. There was nothing special about them.

      Psalm 82 is a rebuke and it reveals the fact that when we ignore God's wishes, we are acting like little gods.


      http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read2/r00629.html



      It is interesting that you say it is me who doesn't understand the bible, yet you take the meaning of that quote totally out of context and use it as an excuse to ask the question, "What God?" to the author of the OP.

      You knew right from the start the OP was referring to Jesus, the Christian god, yet you tossed out that two worded question despite that fact.

      And, you're honestly trying to tell me your intent wasn't to bait and troll?

      You expect me to buy that?

      1. Cagsil profile image83
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        My statement originally is "what god?"

        If you don't like the explanation of the scripture that says all are gods, which was the reasoning behind me asking "what god?", then reconcile it for yourself.

        When Jesus actually stated it and then one person claims one true god, it makes no sense and begs one to ask what god are they actually talking about.

        Again, my statement wasn't addressed to you, but was to the OP. So, now I am done with you. That's all the explaining I need to do.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, your original statement was a two word question, "What god?"

          That question gets negated as valid due to the fact you have tens of thousands of posts, many of them in religious threads just like this, where the OP makes some loose or direct reference to their beliefs or their god and you don't ask that question at all.

          If you are using the reasoning to ask that question based on that particular quote, why are you not entering every single thread with that same question?

          If you look closely at the OP, you'll see that he never claimed Jesus was the one true god, so once again, your reason to use that quote falls short of the mark.

          Yes, your question was not to me and was directed at the OP. Look back through your many thousands of posts Cagsil and you will also see yourself posting responses to other peoples discussions they're having with an OP. What point are you trying to make here?

    2. Andrew0208 profile image60
      Andrew0208posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      @Cagsil, the relevance is quite interesting to ask you if God existed in your Bible quotation? smile

  25. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
    lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago

    This to all who have chosen to voice their beliefs on my FORUM! stop assuming what I might or might not know. This is fact if you encounter someone who is counter productive to you then why engage them. When you become strong in your resolve then what small minded people seem to think roll off of your back. It is best to leave them behind you but still pray that they come to a better understanding.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I believe it's fairly obvious that you would consider others who don't share your beliefs to be small minded and to just leave them behind, as you say. I think it's safe to safe we can assume those beliefs are correct.

      1. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
        lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Obvious you like take people words out of context, what I was implying is this when some post something, either you gone to answer what is ask or not, but instead you guys chose to lash out if someone offended you. From the start you guys started offering opinon that was not even asked. I never asked was there a God so for someone to ask what God ? That statement alone told me where he was headed. NO ONE and I DO MEAN NO ONE has the right just to be outright disrespectful without  having any provocation with the OP. If you are anyone else beleive that there is no God or many Gods thats on you. I will never debate any of you on the God or Religon that's why I live in Amercia so I may have that freedom of choice.

        1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
          Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hi lamarkyoung, Very well stated.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            It really does amaze me that where I came from I also had freedom of religion,(believe it or not there are other countries with freedom of religion) but it seem to be much more hostile to be able to discuss it here in the U.S.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Does that give you the right to be disrespectful and call others small minded?

  26. 0
    Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago

    Personally, I no longer believe in God.  However, when I did, it appears I had a totally wrong idea of what God is.  It was the Christian version of God I believed in, who I believed to be a God of love, rather like a heavenly father who cared for his children.  However, I have been "put right" by Christians on here, who inform me that God is a god of anger and hatred, who is in the business of punishing people.  So, if it is the Christian God you believe in, then yes, you should expect Him to punish you.

    1. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
      lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      See I like you already atleast you did answer the question that is all I asked all these other people started a personal attacks among themseleves without ever answering the question.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I answered you too.

        1. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
          lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes you did I am sorry for the oversight. Thank you very much for your strong hold. I may not post everytime one of them post but I do read them. I am glad that you stand tall for your convictions.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You are welcome.
            It does get a little bumpy in the forums sometimes ,so many people and so little time.

            To Your Best Life~

  27. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Does god wiping out all of mankind bar 8 count as discipline?

    If my son disobeys should I kill him?

    1. 0
      SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If your son leaves home and ends up dead what can you do?

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Mourn.

        Both my sons left home years ago, and I hope they remain safe and sensible.
        But I don't think killing them for leaving home is a good idea.

        1. 0
          SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



          I hope they remain safe also.  God says, "The wages of sin is death."  Do not touch those things that will kill you.  God doesn't kill, death is the payment for sin.  God only warns us not to do those things.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well that comes a little late for me! I am a risk taker, always was and will remain so, and I have touched a lot of things in my life, many of which someone's god is sure to dissaprove of.

            those who lose an infant at birth would not appreciate you god's sentiments Sir Dent.

            1. 0
              SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this



              Losing an infant at birth is hard.  Just as hard as losing as older child I am sure.  It still all boils down to sin.  Death enetered into the world of man when Adam ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

              As I stated before, "The wages of sin is death."  What many people mis sit hat there is a way out.  Jesus is His name and saving the lost is His game.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Just wondering Dent, did you inherit your religion or were you exposed to others?  smile

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Scuse me for jumping in for a second.
                  Randy I inherited the world when I was born -born into it.

                  So,although I know you think Christians were indoctrinated ,its really the other way around wink

                  Every day we are encouraged by Gods word to get rid of the 'old man' (old habits, etc).

                  Back to you Sir Dent.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    "So,although I know you think Christians were indoctrinated ,its really the other way around"

                    The other way around. EK?  This would seem to mean the "the indoctrinated were Christians."  I agree with you on this one.smile

                2. 0
                  SirDentposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I was raised to be a heathen.  I was 36 years old when I gave my life to Jesus.  My mom and dad were not christians when I was a boy.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    So none of your ancestors were christians?  So how many different religious cults did you try out before discovering the "one true god"?  smile  Muslim, Hindu, Hebrew, etc.?

  28. 59
    ibneahmadposted 5 years ago

    Should we expect God to punish us when we disobey him?


    When we disobey Him we go astray from the path of purpose of life; we need rehabilitation to be set again on the path of purpose of life; one may see it as punishment or treatment of the wrong doing.

    1. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
      lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for your insight! I stand 100% behind what you written in plain english that even a infant could understand. @Randy I was not brought up in the Church. My mom nor my father were not apart of any church nor regularly study the bible.I myself have been to a host of religions even tried your path, so for your own sake stop assuming all christians start at the same point., WE DON'T! Just like the people who beleive the way you do I am pretty sure you all did not get the way you are at the same starting point.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Who said I assumed "all christians started at the same point"?

        When you say you've "been to a host of religions," how many is in a "host" and what were they? smile

    2. Cagsil profile image83
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Maybe if you set your own purpose of life and not leave it up to something/someone else, then you wouldn't stray from it.

      Just a thought. wink

  29. estherluzfranco profile image79
    estherluzfrancoposted 5 years ago

    nope.. we don't have to. if ever you read the bible.. try to read between the lines and do not understood it literary. The Bible speaks about God's word. in the old testament, God have really punished the sinners. this would include the story about Sodom and Gomorrah. Do not just cling on 1 verse only. If you want to know the truth about it. Read the whole Bible.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If we need not take the bible literally, then we need not take Gods word literally. Is that correct?

      1. estherluzfranco profile image79
        estherluzfrancoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Read between the lines in the Bible. It does make a difference when reading with deeper understanding than just reading with common sense.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          What does that mean?

  30. estherluzfranco profile image79
    estherluzfrancoposted 5 years ago

    But then God was not really happy about His punishment given to His sons and daughters. If you also read about the story of Noah. You will know that God gave a promise to never bring forth flood against His people again. The rainbow in the story symbolizes His promise.

  31. mdiggs1234 profile image78
    mdiggs1234posted 5 years ago

    My opinion on this is, God is about love and forgiving us and has.   we have to believe that and let things go...human nature makes u continue to feel guilt and shame for past sins.  We expect to be punished, but we are not.   God in love will forgive, if we go to him and ask with a humble heart.

  32. mdiggs1234 profile image78
    mdiggs1234posted 5 years ago

    My opinion on this is, God is about love and forgiving us and has.   we have to believe that and let things go...human nature makes u continue to feel guilt and shame for past sins.  We expect to be punished, but we are not.   God in love will forgive, if we go to him and ask with a humble heart.

  33. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
    lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago

    You are correct and please except my apology because that was not my intentions. I started this forum hoping to meet new like minded people yet instead it seems I encountered the for the most part totally the opposite. But I do wish all of you well with whatever you guys chose to believe in. In the end it is your lives we are talk about right.

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Please don't apologize. (if you were speaking to me)

      There are a thousand different people with a thousand different beliefs. I doubt you'll find a quiet conversation with like minded people, but I'm sure you'll still enjoy the forums. Not everyone argues, all of the time. smile

      1. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
        lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        The apology was general, I will see if not it is still ok.

  34. 0
    SirDentposted 5 years ago

    My computer crashed and I cannot get it to boot up.  Sounds like the hard drive because it is making a noise. Using my wife's computer right now to post this.  I may be off-line for a while. 

    I hate this computer.  mad

  35. 5fingers profile image59
    5fingersposted 5 years ago

    yes of course.
    There are always consquences for every action we take ,either  a reward  or a punishment.

  36. estherluzfranco profile image79
    estherluzfrancoposted 5 years ago

    (A Troubled Man) you really are a troubled man. all that had happened about God's ways of punishing were done in the old testament. those things were also done before the ten commandments were made. In the new testament, God preserves life. He saved a woman who was a very sinful person caught by lots of her neighbors committing adultery. He save that woman from being stoned to death and forgave her for all her sins. She was not given any punishments, instead, she was held by His hands and took her away from the darkness that she is living in.

    Do not just based God on what had happened in the old testament. there is also the New testament which has more information on what God is.

    As for the question:
    Should we expect God to punish us when we disobey him?

    answer: No. He will not punish us. He had given us free will to decide on what are the things that we would want to choose, either to believe in Him or not, do good or evil. But if you are a true believer, you would know that God does not punish His people for He loves all of us. That is why Jesus died on the cross to wash away all the sins of the earth. It is in our prerogative if we ask for forgiveness and promise not to do those sinful ways again.
    Our decisions were all made from our thoughts and in our hearts.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Gee, thanks for the compliment. How nice of you to say. I'll be sure to give your post the attention it deserves.

  37. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    SirDent wrote:

    She was warned not to look back and she knew that something bad would happen if she did.  (I already went over this in a previous comment to you) 

    Tell a child to not put a screwdriver in an outlet because it will hurt them.  If they do it anyway and they get hurt, who is at fault?
    =====================
    A Troubled Man wrote
    If I use your the same logic from the above example of Lot's wife being warned and losing her life towards your second example, I would have to kill my child for putting the screwdriver into the outlet. Is that correct?

    =====

    SirDent wrote:
    I imagine if one of your children was to pass before you, you would keep it's body with you at all times? 

    =======

    A Troubled Man wrote
    No, but I also wouldn't kill my child as a form of punishment.

    ======



        Jeramy   (ME)

    A better comparison might be ...  If I owned a delapidated old house that crack heads were using to sell drugs and committ raoes and murders ...  and I was going to burn it down? ...
    And I told everyone to stay away at a certain time...

    And someone I loved went into it after I had lit the match.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Funny you should mention that, it seems like every six months or so I have to burn down yet another dilapidated hold house where crack heads were committing murders. Must be a trend.

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes I know,    I'm running short on matches.

  38. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Do God haters think that God should have made us indestructible? 
      I think that we are; in the spiritual realm.
    I also think that we have chosen to be here in this physical realm.

      If we were indestructible; there would be no challenge in climbing mountains, bull fighting, driving our cars faster than we know we should, etc. etc.

      If we were indestructible; there would be no challenges in lie.
      And then what?

  39. lsin82 profile image61
    lsin82posted 5 years ago

    When I was a child and I did something wrong that I knew I had no business doing, I expected to get disciplined. I didn't understand it at the time, but now that I am older and have a child of my own, I realize that discipline is just a form of love so that we may understand the importance of making correct choices and doing what is right. This is the same concept that God our Father holds true with us. When He sees us going astray, headed in a direction we should not go,out of His love for us He disciplines us to bring us back on track. Yes I expect to be disciplined when I fail to uphold the standards God has set in His Word. However, because God loves us He also pours out His grace upon us and sometimes when I deserve to be disciplined, He instead shows mercy. How awesome is that.

    1. DoubleScorpion profile image84
      DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Discipline and capital punishment are not the same. Which I think is the majority of the arguement being presented. Is death a proper punishment for instruction?

    2. lamarkyoung4 profile image60
      lamarkyoung4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      @lsin82 Thank you very much you have answered in a manner that really brings it home. I love the way you have put it all in order. very well stated. God truly flowed through you in this post.@DoubleScorpion Remeber it was capital punishment of Jesus Christ himself that gives you and I the chance to come to the father.

  40. 0
    Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago

    I think some people have a innate ability to punish themselves, and are so filled with guilt and shame at times, that they almost look for a higher authority to punish them, in an attempt to feel better about themselves.  This mental torture should be recognised for what it is, and that it stems not from the divine, but from the human.  Living your life, with the intention not to harm anyone else mentally or physically is the best anyone can do.  The Old Testament is filled with laws which would seem absurd to most people today, except for orthodox Jews.  Who would for example not pick up a stick on a Sunday, or how many menstruating women will remove themselves from their family and community, until they are "clean."  Yet people tortured themselves with fears of what would happen if they didn't obey these laws.  This human mind's need to turture itself should not be seen as a punishment from God, but as the faulty thinking it really is.

  41. 60
    amberfortsonposted 5 years ago

    He suffered not only to learn but to show the world what he was willing to do himself to save their immortal souls. Jesus is and always was perfect.

  42. 60
    amberfortsonposted 5 years ago

    To answer your initial question, yes I do believe that we should "expect" to be punished when we do wrong in the eyes of God. I guess this would be what some people would like to call karma LOL! The Ten Comandments are very basic guidelines for what we are expected/advised to follow  throughout life, they are certainly not the ONLY "rules". To take one situation out of the Bible and blow it up seems ludacris. God also did many great things with his time on earth. "A Troubled Man" you make it seems as if He was here on some sort of terrorist killing raid. This has to be the silliest comments on a subject so simple that I have ever heard.
    The question was "do you think we should expect to be punished by God when we disobey him" Not what would happen if we look over our shoulder or our children put a screwdriver in a light socket. Although you may not need worry about looking over your shoulder you may need to enjoy the cool winter months and air conditioning (I hope you have) while you can.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      God wiped out the population of the entire planet in a flood, is there a mass murderer throughout all of history that can boast the same claim? What God did was far worse than just a terrorist killing raid.

      What about the other gods? If you do wrong in their eyes, do you not expect to be punished?

      Yes, some silly comments there.



      ???

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Troubled:

        You have judged God according to mans standards.

        Rightly or wrongly ,it dont work that way around wink

        Who can know the mind of God?

        I dont,but I trust it.

        I dont trust man.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You claim to know the mind of God along with every other believer here.

          That's just a cop out.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Knowing his word is one thing ,it also says in His word ,'Who can know the mind of God".

            So ,no its not a cop out. You are incorrect.

            Hope that explains it for you.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              It's a cop out, despite what you quote. I can quote lots of things from the Bible that you nor anyone else would do or even consider to do. Thanks for the explanation.

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You would be very hard pushed anywhere on this forum to find where I say I know the mind of God.

                I suggest what you have done is assume because I may answer based on my personal experience and sometimes use scripture ,that I KNOW the MIND of God.

                I dont.

                So I repeat its not a cop out at all.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Repeating doesn't change anything. Besides, when I look back now, I don't see anywhere in which I was claiming to know Gods mind.

                  Where do you see that?

                  I can judge anyone or any God for wiping out the earths population as being nothing more than mass murder. It is what it is. Who cares what God was thinking at the time?

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Huh?
                    No you said I claim to know Gods mind etc?

                    Nevermind.

            2. 0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I'm afraid ATM is correct. You can't have it both ways. When you quote scripture to support your opinions you are, in essence, claiming to know the mind of God. You are not unaware that others who claim belief in Christianity disagree. And yet, you stand firmly behind your interpretation of the words that you determine are the will of God. So you are claiming to know the mind of God.

              As does any christian that quotes scripture to back up a point when there isn't universal agreement.

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No I am quoting scripture,period.

                God said this, etc.

                If I were quoting I knew the mind of God  and this is exactly what he thinks ,then there would be no other interpretations ,now would there?

                And we certainly know thats not true.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  If scripture (Gods word) isn't what's in Gods mind, what is it then?

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I dont like copy n paste too much ,but this explains it well:

                    Isaiah 40:13. The interrogative form is a strong mode of denying that anyone has ever known the mind of the Lord. The argument of Paul is this, "No one can understand God. No one can fully comprehend his plans, his feelings, his views, his designs. No one by nature, under the influence of sense and passion, is either disposed to investigate his truths, or loves them when they are revealed. But the Christian is influenced by God. He has his Spirit.

                    He has the mind of Christ; who had the mind of God. He sympathizes with Christ; he has his feelings, desires, purposes, and plans. And as no one can fully understand God by nature, so neither can he understand him who is influenced by God, and is like him; and it is not to be wondered at that he regards the Christian religion as folly, and the Christian as a fool.

                2. 0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You and I both know that you and other christians have no problem pointing out those who won't make it to heaven; while other christians disagree. You  and others quote scripture to show why you say the things you do.

                  This is an example of  attempting to speak for God, as if you know his mind when there is not universal agreement.

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    If the questions posed is What does God say about...etc etc..

                    I respond with what I see as the answer.

                    I mean surely He is the main subject of the topic ,right?.

                    God, Jesus Christ ,Bible.

                    Seriously if were discussing chocolate chip cookies in the food forum ,sooner or later someone might share a recipe...

                    Logic.

              2. Jerami profile image77
                Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I guess Im coming in too late to understand.


                   can you tell me exactly which points Eaglekiwi was making that you disagree with so much?

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You're right on time jerami. It isn't that I disagree with her, it's on whose authority we claim to be speaking. When you say God said, to back something up like who isn't worthy of the christian heaven, or anything else; you are saying you know the mind of God.

                  You can't say God said and mean anything other than ypu think you know his mind as long as there is disagreement within Christianity as to the point.

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                    Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Christian Heaven?

                    Ok ,ya got me there.

                    I only know of one heaven and hell.

                    Enlighten me ,if you will.

                    I dont wish to argue it with you ,just curious why you called a Christian heaven.

        2. DoubleScorpion profile image84
          DoubleScorpionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Not to pick...But...if one doesn't or cannot know the mind of God, how can they understand the meaning of the bible, given that it's understanding comes from God? How can they begin to understand God's will for their life?

          Just thinking outloud...

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol
            Thinking is a good thing wink

            We can know Gods word ( at least to the best of our knowledge) but Gods mind-no, not exactly.

            We know his will through most of the scriptures,and through the witness of the Holy Spirit.

            For example ,I dont know why God has made some of the decisions he did,and will in the future...akin to Moses not being able to look upon the glory of God ,I accept that I cant know His mind.

            P.S Pick away, I know its not personal- lol

  43. Rah128 profile image61
    Rah128posted 5 years ago

    Should we expect God to punish us when we disobey him?..

    Really!! why is it with god its allways about putting fear in people who dont belive its almost like school kids bully tactics.
    Its diasspointing to think that fully grown people actuly can belive that there going to get punished by a imaginary higher being.

  44. A.S.K.Preacher profile image59
    A.S.K.Preacherposted 5 years ago

    No pain, no gain. Interesting that our society puts so much stock into sports concerning this saying - but grossly ignore the spirit that lives now. When Jesus sends those away from Him he says, "Go, you who PRACTICE iniquity."
    All believers PRACTICE righteousness. That sometimes is not so easy to do. Christians make mistakes too. Praise be to Jesus our Lord and Savior for forgiveness and cleansing.

    1. Woman Of Courage profile image60
      Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Amen. Amen.

  45. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    Emile R wrote 
    You're right on time jerami. It isn't that I disagree with her, it's on whose authority we claim to be speaking. When you say God said, to back something up like who isn't worthy of the christian heaven, or anything else; you are saying you know the mind of God.

    ===  ---  ===  -  ??

       I'll begin with .. I agree with everyone a little and disagree a little more.   

      I agree that we do not have authority to say who gets in and who doesn't. unless we are talking about OUR bed.

      Sometimes I wonder if I have any "REAL" authority/(power) over anything.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol at your humour Jerami,

      W sure do have a choice,buts its not easy either ,if you dont know ALL of the choices.And then whose to say if the choices are right -for us.

      I dont have any authority on who gets into Heaven or not,my job is to make sure I do lol and at least love people irregardless.

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I   never   thought that you did feel that way.

           About who gets in and who gets out that is.

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh its ok ,I didnt think that you did smile
          Was just sayin...

          1. Jerami profile image77
            Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            And I never thought that you thought that I did so it's even better than ok  OK

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol ok

    2. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You don't think you have power over anything? I feel the same way. But, I think that's the beginning of wisdom. I hope, anyway.

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Don't know about wisdom ....   I KNOW it is one of the signs of getting OLD

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Then I must be very wise..lol   ...not

          Used to be that way ,least my grandparents were wise ,but then many politicans are old and they are not wise.

          Just dont know about that anymore.

          1. Jerami profile image77
            Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well I'm Old, I may be wise ????   I don't know ?
            If I am, I cain't remember what it was, or where I put it.

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You got the 'forgetty's' Jerami?

              1. Jerami profile image77
                Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Don't know for sure i I got both hands on them but I think I feel them coming on .

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Yep yer old lol

  46. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    What were yowl talking about a while ago ????

       OH YEA    God munishing us.   
      I don't think God ever punished me for anything I did wrong.

      He mustave thought I was doing a good enough job of punishing my self. All my bad deeds came with their own retribition.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      and that other sometimes reality.....no good deed goes unpunished. smile

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Unfortunatly   that seems to be a common ocuring lesson.

  47. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    I was just now thinking;  If god gives out blessings to his followers for doing his will...   I wonder if the Devil blesses his followers for the same reason.

       And If God punishes bad deeds that his follows commit, the Devil probably punishes his followers when they do not do his will.

      Soooo  with all that blessings and punishing going on from both camps  ???    It can be hard to tell who is doing what.

        Sometimes the bad guy in the western movie, does wear a white hat.

  48. brotheryochanan profile image60
    brotheryochananposted 5 years ago

    What i believe God does do is, he puts his rebellious or unlearning children in a wilderness (recall the book of exodus) experience to teach them what they need to learn.

       Each christian goes through a process of sanctification, along that journey everyone encounters stumbling blocks that are difficult to overcome. I like to use the example of smoking because not everyone is in an adulterous relationship nor are many kleptomaniacs, etc... smoking hits home with most people.
    Now God has said that He wants you to quit smoking and you do so for a while and then pick it up again and quit for another day, buy a pack on tuesday and another on sunday.. and so the trend goes on and on, eventually, God needs to do something to exert the importance of this no smoking policy and off to the wilderness you go, where, for example, the bible is not opening up like it used to, or you can't seem to hear Gods words, the sky seems hardened over your head, allegorically or you just 'feel' unspiritual... this kind of chastening is a tool of God and often frustration occurs. I call it the wilderness experience. Oh lord why am i feeling separated. This may be termed as punishment i suppose, but i like the bible word, chastening.
    But punish, in the literal term of punishment, if so, then the punishment must suit the crime; the crime must have been very severe like preaching an invisible sky fairy as a thing that doesn't exist.

 
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