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The Reason Rally - March 24, 2012

  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago

    "Join us for the largest gathering of the secular movement in world history"

    http://reasonrally.org/

    If anyone from the Washington DC area will be going to this rally, it would be great if you could provide some comments.

    1. profile image61
      ibneahmadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Secular does not mean atheist; if they stand to reason to start with.

      These are no synonyms.

    2. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sounds more like it'll be an unreasonable rally.

      1. Cagsil profile image61
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That's not surprising coming from you Brenda. lol

  2. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    We'll be attending, although this is the first I've heard of it. Thanks for the link. We live close enough to drive down, but if you're coming in from out of town you should definitely reserve your rooms early. And stay outside of the beltway if you don't want to spend two hundred a night for an average room.

  3. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    I wish I could come! Some very good speakers.

    I will have to wait for you guys to come back and tell those of us who couldn't be there about it in a hub or two. smile

  4. profile image0
    Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago

    I would come, but there are no buses which run from England to Washington DC.  It is great news that American atheists are not afraid to stand up and be counted.  Hopefully this will be the start of more atheists coming out of the closet.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Out of the closet is the right terminology too, as having any public profile in America, it is love the fairy or walk!

      People are less likely to admit they don't follow the bronze aged god when their lives and those of their children can be ruined by their non belief in the unbelievable. smile
      I hope they see a high percentage of non believers, but I doubt many can afford the risk in these hard times... too likely to lose their income.

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You apparently know little of America. There isn't any problem with being an atheist. This is a free country, last time I checked.

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Not that little. smile
          You won't find the same problem in places like down-town New York so much, but other places?

          Try running for President or high office without the right fairy, or getting a job in a turban, or trying to find a boss who doesn't want to know what your religion is regardless of any state laws to stop that type of discrimination as happened to a friend recently.

          The word "Muslim" was used as a derogative word to denigrate the first black president but was OK by a large percentage of the right.

          No, America still carries the old racist, sexist, religious bulldust around and parades it like a badge of honour.

          The newly politically correct religious zealots still destroy democracy with an inordinate amount of representation in my view.

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Thank goodness Americans don't seem to be as blind or narrow minded as you seem to be.

            That's bs. Freedom of speech, and a media that loves ratings brings the crazies to the limelight quite often. They are a vocal minority.  The world I live in does not resemble your picture.

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Fair enough, I don't live there and you do, I have never stayed for more than a few months, but have been watching America and formed those views. smile
              You may well be right about a vocal minority, I guess you get to know that by living there and knowing your culture better than I do.

              May I ask approximately where you are in the states, and if you feel your location reflects a typical or majority point of view?

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                North of DC. Small town in Maryland. And yes, we do. No one cares who is what. This state is one of the states that is already over 50% hispanic, believe it or not. There are a lot of people who live here that have been here for generations, and we have our share of bedroom communities for DC.

                But, I've lived in several states throughout the years and the picture you paint is not indicative of anywhere I've lived.

                No, I don't sit around and discuss my views in the local diner, but neither does anyone else discuss religion, race or any subject you mentioned. I've never been asked my religious affiliation in any job interview.

                I realize it's the nature of things to insult our country here, but at least I can take comfort in the fact that no Americans are running around attempting to return the favor. smile

            2. profile image0
              Chasukposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The world you live in does resemble the picture that earnestshub paints, if you live in the United States. You can't run for POTUS as an atheist, and it is more difficult to find a job if you wear a turban. The word "Muslim" was used to denigrate Obama, and a majority of the Conservatives didn't object.

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                You can run, but you've already handicapped yourself just as someone who built a political career on being a woman, or a member of a specific ethnic group has. When you put your personal line of separation on your resume you are pointing out that the sieve you use in your decision making process will automatically disenfranchise any party of your constituency that doesn't share that view. I wouldn't vote for someone screaming atheist on those grounds alone, no matter what my other opinions were on their qualifications.



                Those are the glasses of your perception. When you look for problems in the behavior patterns of others you'll find them. None of us are perfect. We all have moments when we disappoint ourselves.  But I refuse to leave that as my expectations of others. I can only judge what Americans are by what I see. What I know. My reflections on my interactions with others. Those whose paths have crossed mine do not reflect that mentality as what they want to be.

                If you look to the media for your opinion, you'll see the worst the world has to offer. Judge the world by the one you live in and make a difference there. Do your part in molding it into the opposite of what you've posted.

          2. Eaglekiwi profile image73
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            It is probably even worse than you describe Earnest ,and location obviously can be deceptive .However the old boys club ,especially those who run the main offices still have their territory contained...Old money talks...

            Freedom of speech is alive and well ,but if the media is controlled by on high ,all they do is open make alot of hot air.

            Democracy - No comment.



            BBC and Rueters is less insular oh and the discovery channel lol

        2. Jeff Berndt profile image92
          Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "You apparently know little of America. There isn't any problem with being an atheist. "

          No, unless you happen to mention that you're an atheist in company. Then people will judge you, assume you're also a communist, or otherwise a bad person. I've had Scout leaders tell me that atheists are horrible destructive people who have no respect for themselves or others and don't give a darn about anything. I've read comments on the forums from American who say that anyone who refuses to swear an oath to tell the truth with the words "so help me God" and their hand on a Bible would be an unreliable witness in their eyes.

          If you really think that nobody in the US cares if someone is an atheist, and that atheists (known ones, that is) don't get treated with suspicion, you're deluding yourself.

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I wouldn't say no one cares. This forum would prove me wrong. I will say that the number of people who do think that way is drastically smaller than the numbers bandied about. And the numbers are shrinking.

            If you take a Christian organization like the Boy Scouts as the litmus test for the average American, you will get a skewed perception.

            I find your comment about swearing on the Bible humorous since I assume it came from Christians. Shows how little they know, or pay attention to, their scriptures.

            I don't think I'm deluding myself. People are judged by their words and actions, not by their professed stand on the topic of religion. I don't begrudge people their views as long as they extend the same courtesy.

            1. Jeff Berndt profile image92
              Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              "I find your comment about swearing on the Bible humorous since I assume it came from Christians. Shows how little they know, or pay attention to, their scriptures."

              Heh, you're right, and it is pretty funny.

              "People are judged by their words and actions, not by their professed stand on the topic of religion."
              Generally speaking, that's right, unless someone gets outed as an atheist.

              Most people don't care if someone says they don't go to Church. Most people don't care if someone follows a different religion, like Judaism or Hinduism or Buddhism. Most people don't even care if someone says, "Well, I'm not religious, but I am spiritual, and I think something's out there; I just don't know what."

              But if someone says flat out, "No, I don't believe in God or Jesus or any of that superstitious stuff," well, they can expect to be treated a little differently by many, many Americans.

              I can't lay my hands on the poll just now, but atheists are one of the least-trusted groups in the US.

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I see your point. I label everyone that doesn't believe in the god concept atheist, so there's a lot more of them around; by my count.

                Although, given a choice of trusting a firmly entrenched atheist or a Bible thumping Christian; I'll take my chances with the atheist. I've dealt with enough slippery Christians who think they are going to get a free ride by professing faith.

                1. Jeff Berndt profile image92
                  Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  "given a choice of trusting a firmly entrenched atheist or a Bible thumping Christian; I'll take my chances with the atheist."

                  Your instincts are good; in an older discussion someone mentioned that they were trained in spotting liars (for an insurance claims job, I think?) and said that 90% of the time, if someone pulls out a Bible and offers to swear on it, they're lying.

                  For my money, if someone is honest enough to decline to use a Bible, they're honest enough to tell the truth in court.

                  BTW, a bit of trivia, John Quincy Adams, though not an atheist, didn't swear in as President on the Bible. He used a law book.
                  Also, Quakers don't swear at all, let alone on a Bible. They just affirm that they're not going to lie. Luckily for them, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts stopped hanging Quakers a long time ago.

  5. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    America has a large influence on Australia and many other countries many of which most Americans can't even locate on a map, so you are due a bit of scrutiny.

    You control our drug laws for example, something that interferes with our medical R+D.

    We were also dragged into all of your recent wars including Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Australia has a pretty nasty history, and is not perfect now either, so feel free to criticise it, I do.

    I'm happy to know it has improved over there. smile

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well, if there is any control, or participation in things you don't agee with, that might be a problem. I thought Australia was a democracy, but not a part of this one.
      We only have fifty states and I can name them all. Australia isn't on that list. I would think your government might be responsible, not America.

      And I would be remiss if I didn't point out that your comments on our ability to locate countries on a globe is insulting, with no evidence other than that narrow minded statement.

      I have no problem criticizing things within this country that I feel need to be adressed. But your statements on Americans are too off the mark to consider them problems. And I have enough respect for Australians not to make broad derogatory generalizations without facts.

  6. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    No, the drug laws were put in place on the usual basis. Do it or we will punish you, the same as they do in several other areas including participation in wars.

    The thing is, it is true that many Americans have no idea where many countries are, in fact I can probably find the data to support that statement, although it has been obvious even many Presidents up until Obama knew very little about the rest of the world.

    America has had a tendency to nationalistic fervour for some time, the excesses visible to all who can get Fox TV.

    I love America, have for a long time, but I am not going to lie about what I see that I don't like.
    I am willing to be educated on the matter, but could do without the accusations of being narrow minded and the like. smile

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm so sorry ernest. I guess I am being testy about the whole thing. I simply think you are somewhat insulting in your assessment of our country. I remember a time a town I lived in was on the local news of the larger town we were outside of. It was so insulting. It was like they searched for the most ignorant within the smallest minority to interview. It was not an indication of who we were, and it appears you have been given a similar view of the entire country.

      I do realize our government uses its muscle, but how does America threaten to punish Australia?

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That's OK I understand, I am proud to be Australian and like Rupert would be happy to be a dual citizen. I do have a green card.

        As you know I ran for the Senate in my state, so I do know some of what goes on in government here from colleagues and our hungry press.
        America if not obeyed imposes trade embargoes, blocking supply, threatens to renege on joint ventures, threatens to block deals, whatever gets the job done.
        Our politicians fold like cards because our economy is so reliant on yours that the local saying that everyone knows is "America gets a sniffle, we get the flu."
        We have a smaller economy than America and depend heavily on your good offices, so we do as we are told. smile

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I'm sorry to hear that. I had no idea it was that big of a problem. I do realize that there isn't really anything such as a sovereign nation anymore, we are all so interconnected and interdependent economically.

          But, if things continue the way they are pretty soon you'll be grumbling about your relationship with China and have forgotten where we are on the map.

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            True! lol We have a very strong relationship with China based on Australian resources such as LPG and iron ore, boxite etc.

            We have a little better control over those.....so far. smile

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You only have control because they are growing. They'll flex their muscle as soon as they feel capable. All governments do.

              1. earnestshub profile image87
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I agree, and China has big muscles to flex at this time. China and Australia have a very long relationship though.
                The oldest family in my city of almost 4 Million are Chinese, I have an adopted son from China, half or more of what we buy is Chinese, yet I would estimate they only represent around 2-3% of the population here.
                I hope that our student exchange program and the number of Asian students here  may make things a little easier in negotiations with China into the future.
                The culture is very different though, and I would never find it as easy to assimilate into their culture as they do into mine for many reasons.
                I worked for the Chinese Government for a while in the nineties as editor of the Aust/China business Herald, which they started in Melbourne, written in Mandarin and English.
                Way back then, they lifted infrastructure verbatim from Canadian and Australian laws in preparation for them becoming the real capitalists they are at heart more openly. smile
                The problem is that bribes will have to be lost when the laws go in to place and people will have to be paid more.
                Hell of an eye opener for me.

                1. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm sure there are hurdles, but I like the Chinese people very much. Those I've met are incredibly nice and the films I've seen from China show me we have a lot in common as to the things we laugh at and what entertains us.

                  Our people certainly could get along better if our governments weren't in the way.

                  1. earnestshub profile image87
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I am happy to know you like the Chinese people I do too, but until we learn their business culture we both lose.

                    I had the opportunity to explain the different business views on ABC radio some years back, and it is a difficult one.

                    They see our contracts as being based on litigation, whereas their primary goal is to establish trust.

                    If things break down they claim we use contracts to gain payments that are not deserved, and we claim if things go wrong they don't honour their contracts. I believe this is the guts of that little problem.
                    The people themselves? Delightful, quietly courageous.
                    I like em too. I am so proud of my youngest son. He has done well here.

      2. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm sorry Emile, but Earnest is correct about some parts of our country.  Unless you've lived in the deep south or out west you don't realize the extent of racism or homophobia some parts of the country contain.

        Deeply religious and heaven bound- these church ridden areas still believe the nonsense spewed weekly at their favorite christian cult meetings.  Both politics and morals are dictated from the pulpit for the eager listeners to obey and believe.

        I grew up witnessing the toll it has taken on people's ability to make their own decisions.  You might be surprised at how often I hear Obama referred to as "that n****r president."

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I've lived around and have seen some crap. I do know every state south you go on the eastern seaboard, the small towns are another decade behind with each state line you cross. But that is dying.

          As to comments about Obama,  I don't let anyone speak with less respect than is due the president. That bs, calling him that? Ridiculous. He isn't a black man who became president. He's a man who happens to be black. Big difference in political styles.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Don't let?  LOL!  You would end up spending all of your time getting gang whipped if you defended the president with such zeal around here.  smile

            Unless, of course, you were in a certain other section of town, and you would be suspected of buying drugs if you were there and white.

            No, some things change very slowly here in the south.  Enlightenment is one of them.

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Where are you?

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Rural Southeastern Georgia.  Fortunately, I live in the country on a farm and do not have to deal with people I don't like.  smile

                1. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Georgia? I went to university in Georgia. They told horror stories about Underground Atlanta, but  every time I went there, I loved it.

                  Atlanta is one of the friendliest cities in America. Hate the airport though. And, man, it's hot as h*ll down there. No wonder the religious are so cranky.

            2. Eaglekiwi profile image73
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              They loved me Randy tongue  down South ,actually more than my hubby.

              But then hes a yank lol

              Actually Im Southern girl ,just from the other end of the Hemiphere lol...closer to Penguins than maybe Snakes wink

              But I loved the time I lived in Greenville ,SC and Spartanburg.

              My new friends Pat and Les and Janet,Les was a retired sherriff and General Lee took up most of one living room corner.

              Culturally I learned much from the locals..
              Then there was Alex ,oh my gosh he was almost 80 yrs old and what a charmer..cooked the meanest (best) grilled chicken ,marinated in a family secret recipe!!...
              I loved hearing his stories,wished now Id recorded some of them ,he would have let me too...amazing man,he had such a rich past.

              In the past all I had known ,was what Id read ,now some of that has been confirmed by my friends recollection of his family history, and although some comments disturbed me ,it was never the less a part of the Souths  history.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I don't intend to infer there are not some great people here, EK.  It is so much better here than when I was a child before the civil rights movement took place.  Even as a small child I was disturbed by the racism I witnessed in public places.

                We still have along way to go, though. smile

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
                  Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I can well imagine the racism.

                  In some quarters I noticed how easily some people still do use racist language without a flinch of shame.

                  I thought I was shock proof -I was proven wrong.

                  Now I get to observe the North wink

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I was in high school when the first 2 black students entered the formally all-white institution of learning.  The halls were lined by white students who had been reared by mostly racist parents.

                    These 2 bright young men (both honor students) wore white shirts with ties and black dress pants, making them stand out even more among those hundreds of us in casual wear forming a gauntlet of sorts for them to traverse to their homerooms.

                    I was in fear for their lives as some uttered racial slurs upon them.  They held their heads high and one of them even stopped in front of a group of boys and asked who called him a n****r. 

                    I knew who said it, but even though the boy who hurled the insult was surrounded by friends, he was afraid to admit his guilt under the gaze of the new student.  I was ashamed to be white that day.

                    I often wondered what the night before was like to those two brave boys and what went on in their minds.  I still do. smile

  7. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    I only passed through Georgia as a tourist and by knowing what a religious loon looked like from some people we met along the way at a food stop, we were able to avoid em.
    We noticed they like to advertise their lunacy all over themselves and their vehicles.

    The people I met in Georgia were great, very friendly and easy going, hospitable and I enjoyed listening to them.

    I was looking at car collections though, not bible collections. smile

  8. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    I like this outlook Emile, it is optimistic and reminds me that when we expect the best from people we very often get it. smile

    My dad used to say "give a dog a good name" by which he meant to get across that If we expect people to behave well we should treat them with that level of respect from the start, more people will meet or better our expectations.

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks ernest. It's my ideal. I don't always live up to this, but when I recognize that I've fallen short I apologize, make amends or whatever I have to do to show that I know it. Then I kick myself in the head for a few days for falling short, before I finally find perspective.

      Maybe someday I'll live it 100% of the time. smile

  9. donotfear profile image89
    donotfearposted 5 years ago

    Let's take all the love on here and spread it around!

  10. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    With you on the channels, I also catch the Daily show and the Corbet report as well as the news hour on PBS with Jim Lehrer, Charlie Rose and Discovery of course!

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      My boys got me tuned into the Daily Show-Jon Stewart ?

      lol  lol

      Just when ya think ,am I going crazy?  are these people really leaders.

      I watch that show and know Im not crazy.

  11. profile image61
    ibneahmadposted 5 years ago

    The Reason Rally - March 24, 2012

    I think it is a misnomer; it should have been named doubt rally or deny rally; why hide behind the word reason when their stand is not reasonable.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's dishonest, you can't know what their stand is until the rally has commenced. How can you know it's not reasonable?

  12. profile image61
    ibneahmadposted 5 years ago

    Earlier they were against being organized; that is why they were against organized religion.

    Are they trying to become a religion now?

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Are you suggesting every group of people who become organized are religions?

  13. TMMason profile image73
    TMMasonposted 5 years ago

    Well I wish all couple few hundred of you a nice time at your lil shin-dig.

  14. profile image61
    ibneahmadposted 5 years ago

    It is good that they are rallying; that will expose them.

    There is no requirement of reason for being an atheist.Atheism is open to those who have no reason with them.

  15. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 5 years ago

    We the Squares will oppose your moves towards world domination smile

  16. profile image0
    AKA Winstonposted 5 years ago

    It is unreasonable to spend the money and time to travel to a rally that will have no affect on anything, so the only ones who will arrive will actually be unreasonable people, making the reason rally  completely unreasonable.

    We who are truly reasonable can best show our strength and numbers by doing the reasonable thing and staying home - the more who don't show up in Washington,  the greater will be the success of the reason rally.

  17. profile image0
    Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago

    I think the lack of trust in someone who doesn't believe in any religion or any supernatural belief, is not only evident in the US.  The 21st century is in many ways a more religious time than has been the case in decades.  And the number of people who believe in the paranormal has increased dramatically.  I watched a TV programme tonight which stated that in the UK, in the 1950s, only 1 in 8 people believed in ghosts.  Now though, it is 50%.  And when I go to my local bookstore, there are many shelves dedicated to the supernatural.  Everything from how to contact your spirit guides or angels, or even fairies.  Things which 60 years ago would have been thought of a eccentric is  the norm now. 

    But when you consider that the world 60 years ago was one where science was considered so important.  The world's two super powers were engaged in the space race, and the threat of nuclear war was ever present, with all children taught how to "duck and cover."  Ideas of creationism were increasingly seen as out-of-date and unsupportable by scientific evidence.  Whilst Kennedy talked about putting a man on the moon, in Britain, Wilson talked of "the white heat of technology."  Things have changed considerably, and the supernatural has made a big comeback.  And those who do not believe in it are now the eccentric ones.

 
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