cyber missionaries

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Troy C.posted 12 years ago
We as cyber missionaries must not be deterred when people tell us that what we do here is useless and that we are not doing anything for the Lord but I say anytime you spread the word of God anywhere you are fulfilling the "Great Commission" as given by Jesus in Matthew 28:18-20. so keep up the good works and lets love them to life.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We as cyber atheists/agnostics must not be deterred when people tell us that what we do here is useless and that we are not doing anything for the good of mankind but I say anytime you spread love and acceptance anywhere you are pointing out to those who label themselves 'missionaries' and condemn us; how they were also being adressed in Matthew 7:1-6. so keep up the good works and lets love them to life.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree Troy. The seeds are being planted and watered. There are people that truly desire to a personal relationship with God.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Spoken by a true southern fundamentalist. Born, bred. and indoctrinated into the one true faith because he's been told this by the indoctrinators many times before.
  
  Preach on, brother. Do you know Moe?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Indoctrinated maybe, perhaps, but this indoctrination are not bars that one cannot step out of. Indoctrination is not a holding cell. With all the time that has passed she and others, after experiencing God, can and could simply walk out of... into the nice easy life of just listening to their flesh and gettin laid and all that drunken good stuff, BUT... as you see, this is not the case.
  Moe has been laid to rest.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. If religion is the only thing that stands in your way to keep you from living a drunken, promiscuous existence; you need religion. Most of us don't suffer from the need to fight those urges. We don't see that as good, like you say you do.
  
  Sorry to hear about your moral handicaps. You have my sympathies.
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  healinghands1668posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ha! Good one, Emile!
  
  Of course, for some people who were spoon-fed their religion and made to feel ashamed about questioning it, any crisis of faith has the potential to foster extreme rebellion and rejection of everything their religion teaches, including the valuable things.
  
  It's like the D.A.R.E program for grade schoolers. It attempts to keep kids off drugs by warning them of the dangers involved. Unfortunately, it takes advantage of children's gullibility and trust of their teachers and uses such extreme scare tactics that children walk away thinking a marijuana joint will kill them in a puff. Cut to middle school or high school when a few of those same children succumb to peer pressure and take a couple puffs of marijuana. In the overwhelming majority of cases, death does not occur, unless they get in a car or a piano drops on their heads. In a few cases, the kids decide that their teachers were liars about drugs in general and get careless about their experimenting.
  
  Not saying this is how it always is, but it happens.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I see what you're saying. It is sad when beliefs are drilled into people's heads. They tend to fall hard if they ever come to terms with reality.
  
  I have nothing but respect for religion when it is a balanced and spiritual approach brought about by introspective thought. We all express ourselves differently, spiritually.
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  hschicaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is why I feel every child should be given the room to explore the world (safely, of course) on their own, and not expected to just take everyone's word for it. You can tell a child that the stove is hot, but they won't really KNOW until they actually touch it for themselves. How much better off would a child be if they grow up learning to think and learn for themselves instead of relying on their main authority figures?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No matter how ineffective you view the D.A.R.E program, surely it beats the alternative teachings, and is, I think, appropriate for grade school children. And if it saved only a few kids' lives, it's well worth it.
  
  There are many things that people would be much better off refraining from experimenting with in the first place. We don't always have to try something in order to know it's bad or wrong.
  
  These days especially, children are being taught adult things, when in fact adults should be protecting the kids from having to deal with adult decisions.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and you have mine.
  I could have gone into greater length and detail but i assume everyone is above moron stage.
  There is more to flesh than just what i mentioned ya kinda have to use your brains a bit emile.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We are, but we have to dumb it down for some.
  
  But, the point is that you are the one constantly harping on the flesh. It's in your mind's eye. No one else's. We have cleaner minds, apparently.
  
  I'll make you a deal. When you reply to one of my posts showing that you do, I'll put some time and effort into my response to you.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It interests me that, as usual, when I am in forums, some of the rudest people are the Christians.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry about that, It just proves that Christians were not always Christians...
  
  I love your name...
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You seem to be implying that, then, as former non-Christians, they would be expected to be ruder (or more "sinful" in general). I, however, am not a Christian, and I do not make it my business to be rude or talk to people in a condescending way. These kinds of things are said by people with superiority complexes, major or slight, religious or not. I run into many atheists that sound the same way. That kind of approach to a discussion bothers me no matter who it's coming from. But my point is that it is not one's nature as a non-theist to be that way.
  
  And thank you, concerning the comment about my name, I wanted something different from my usual.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So you are saying anyone who refuses to accept your delusions have nothing to do but enjoy the sins of the flesh, BO?
  
  Indoctrination of a child often makes it impossible for the youngster to have an open mind and to determine right from wrong. It is simply another form of brainwashing which is hard to reverse and often has dire consequences. Jim Jones massacre is a prime example of such.
  
  You, are another. Did you attend church as a child, BO? Have you ever taken the time to find out where your KJV bible really came from or merely take someone's word for it?
  
  Ever heard the expression of the bible being the "inspired word of god"? Who decided it was indeed inspired and what were the qualification entitling the speaker to make this statement?
  
  Moe will kick your god's butt any day of the week. He doesn't like child molesters like the christians do.
  
  May Moe have mercy on your soul.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  no i am not saying that at all. The long posts ya don't read and the short always lack information you need to make a proper analysis of what i said.
  
  Yes my parents dragged me to a church. I left as soon as they listened to me. Perhaps that was a bad choice, if i had stayed i suppose i could argue these questions with you much better than i seem to now. But oh well.
  
  I completely know from whence the king james came from and its for this reason i rely on the masoretic texts and the received texts. Often looking at an original word brings about much light. I never take peoples words for anything unless the Spirit agrees with what is said.
  
  2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
  If you read Timothies history yoiu will find he is one of the good guys. But let us remember that scripture in those days referred to the old testament, not the new, the new had not been formed yet.
  Moe is dead and in the ground but God lives and catholics like the CM the christians don't, they just barely tolerate the gays
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Encouragement to love is a good thing!
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  GrowingDeeperposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Troy God bless you man. In spite of people trying to hijack the thread, your message is received by those who it is meant for. Keep your head up and let God use you here on HP and anywhere He sees fit.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and who are those who are meant for it?
  
  Each other? No, not even that. Two of you can't agree on anything either, other than a vague goddunnit as far as can be seen here.
  
  Have you considered that you may be alienating all those who are "meant" for it?
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Those who don't want it don't get any of it! So what is all the fuss about?
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I guess the fuss is about claiming to be doing some great public service by posting myths as truth and then whinnying when others don't drink the cool aid.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Soooo don't drink the kool aid .... then what will ther fuss all be about??
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As you can see Jerami, I don't drink the cool aid, but I know poison when I see it and it should be pointed out that someone else's god is not gonna be sending you, me or my kids to hell on a rope, because of some belief they have, and it's time these stupid threats against people they do not know were stopped.
  Threats by proxy. Covered in Michael Korda's book. "Power- How to get it, how to use it."
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But ain't everbody over younder fixin koolaid.
  
  i think if we are dumb enough to drink the koolaid -- we are too dumb to breed. Everything works out for the best whether we like it or not
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wish the too dumb to breed thing worked. I know hate and fear of the unknown is passed from generation to generation, and someone has to stop the generational rot. The only way I see forward is education.
  
  I am not a major fan of formal education, it is slowed to suit the weakest link.
  There has always been reading as a means of broadening our horizons, so I spend the time encouraging my children and theirs to read a lot, which is easy as the school does the same.
  I wish the whole world could read well, broadly and quickly, we would live in a much better place I feel.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's not the way I've always seen you Jerami. What's with 'those who don't want it don't get any of it'?
  
  Those who don't want hatred and intractability don't get the unloving posts by the thumpers. No one would have a problem with any religion if it wasn't so hateful and judgmental. I see a few posts by christians who appear to get the whole point.
  
  Those of us against the whole concept of shoving opinions down other people's throats as if we are commanded to by a draconian deity aren't the obtuse ones here.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Emile
  Emile
  That's not the way I've always seen you Jerami. What's with 'those who don't want it don't get any of it'?
  
  I'm not sure if you misunderstood what I was thinking when I said that or did I not say what I was thinking?
  
  Was just saying that if anyone don't want religion , they don't get any of it. The koolaid either.
  
  As fare as Heaven or the lake of fire is concerned ?
  
  I don't think that I have ever said much about that? I think that this concept has been grossly misinterpreted by ALL. As most of prophesy has been.
  There are four main belies concerning the book of Revelation, Preterits, Historists,
  Futurists, spiritualists.
  It depends upon which o these groups a believer falls into as to their outlook on religion.
  I was reading someplace that said the futurists point of view wasn’t the dominant one until around the turn of the 20th century.
  I think that I am a minority of ONE.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry. I must have taken your comment out of context. That's the problem with reading a post without reading the whole conversation.
  
  Don't feel bad if you're a party of one though. At least you get to play your own games. I think the thing that made me post was just that this is what everyone does; which means we all 'get it'. 'It' is simply our personal point of view.
  
  Sometimes when a religious post appears to imply those who don't agree are somehow deficient it causes an eye roll reaction and a snippy comment on my part.
  
  Thanks for clarifying.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Being a minority of one, I have a difficult time explaining what I"m A thinkin.
  I agree with about half of what both sides are saying, but often not with what they are a thinkin I'm agreeing with.
  
  Heck; sometimes I confuse myself.
  
  Any How! I didn't get the least bit upset; I think I knew what you were thinkin.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Actually, you are only spouting insanity. The same insanity my mother and father use to preach...but they were ignorant sharecroppers. Go figure!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Cyber-Missionaries.... I love it!
  
  Thanks Troy... I concur and will not be deterred.
  and, from all of the persecution you are drawing because of your post, continuing to spread the gospel through HP is clearly the right thing to do..
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes please. Continue to argue on an internet forum. That's obviously what God wants.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The big attraction is the feeling of being persecuted.......... some religions thrive on a bit of "persecution!"
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Earnesthub,
  
  You are right, but that wouldn't be me...
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LeslieAdrienne wrote:
  
  from all of the persecution you are drawing because of your post, continuing to spread the gospel through HP is clearly the right thing to do..
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Melissa....
  
  Does it bother you that we heated unresolved discussions in the forums?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, actually it bothers me that you are doing it God's name. Argue all you like, but don't confuse yourselves with the selfless individuals that have dedicated their lives to helping others. By calling yourselves missionaries, you are taking away from Christians that actually put deeds to their lip service.
  
  In addition, all I see being accomplished by this "missionary" work is either 1. preaching to the choir or 2. further alienating those who might eventually like to hear God's word, but certainly won't want to listen to it if it is dripping with contempt and intolerance.
  
  In essence, those "missionaries" are doing more harm than good and misrepresenting what Christianity should be truly about.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ouch, so testy...
  
  You are really angry and a little self-righteous Oh, and just a tad bit judgmental... but that's alright. Freedom of speech and all that...
  
  It is good to hear your opinion. Be Blessed
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's comments like that which I find bizarre. What persecution? Because people disagree?
  
  Those who argue their interpretation of scriptures and then belly ache because people refuse to bow to their beliefs are not being persecuted; anymore than they are spreading gospel. What they are spreading might be better used to fertilize their gardens.
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  ding12371posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, it's my first time to hear on cyber missionaries. It is so good to realize that evengelizing people does not only work through face to face reality but also attest on cyber conversation. I do honestly admit that the way i chat people in net would always indulge sensuality. Right now, i do realize that I am doing wrong and not alligned to divine mind.
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paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago
Oh, please. Spam is spam no matter what you are trying to sell. But that is ok. A couple of Jehovah Witnesses have moved in across the street from me. We get along fine.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Religious dinosaurs will be a thing of the past very soon.

It is becoming far too difficult to hide from real information to believe in the old sky fairy any longer, even for raging zealots.

No, when this generation of religious bigots are gone, there will be fewer to replace them every year.

Thank dog for that!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know Earnest.... there are thousands and thousands of young people who are confessing Christ and making a mark in their communities.
  
  It may be that there will be more of them than there were of us....
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Jonathan Jancoposted 12 years ago
But expressing universal love is never a bad thing whether you are religious, atheist, agnostic, masonic or gnostic. All are the same if the intent is the same.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Love is not a conditional thing.
  Religious "love" is "You can be loved if"...... that is not love at all!
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I realize that earnest, I was simply trying to point out that those who are here to 'spread the gospel' do not have a monopoly on the love and oneness of our allencompassing commonality. They also do not have a monopoly on judgementalism.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are right! Love is not a conditional thing! However it is very dificult for me to express love to someone "IF" everytime they see me they hit me and knock me down. It is hard or me to enjoy the company of someone that I love, who is carrieing a baseball bat that I suspect I will be hit with.
  
  The expression of love is dependant upon how that love is received.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I gotta say Jeremi, it sure would be hard to do that.
  Psychotics and sociopaths are very difficult to reason with or love,
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Love is uncondiional ... with exceptions ... Psychotics and sociopaths to name two
  
  I'm glad you agree.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and where are your psychotics and sociopaths?
  If God is your psychotic then you must realize that obedience to God alleviates all of Gods psychosis, simple obedience, the same kind of obedience that your kids show towards you makes you love them but if one day they decide you are just a load of bulldust and decide to go their own way, im sure you might say, oh i love them, but you would be out of the picture, you're love would be stagnant, inactive, sitting on the sidelines waiting for a chance to bloom, depending of course what evil the children did to you. See the connection..
  If you say that God is not the psycho then you must be blaming his followers which of course would be an insane thing to say.
  So maybe then you call the writers of the OT the psychotic and sociopaths? but then you would need to know that first hand and not just make an assumption like, Stephen king is a sociopath and a psychotic because of the books he writes.
  
  So just what does your post say, earnest?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not all religious love Earnest.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Show me Melisa!
  God's love is conditional in the bible and quoran, and these two tomes offer no unconditional love at all.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Pssst, Earnest. I think Melissa is one of the few Krishna Baptists!
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You know, I'm southern... We eat snakes in these parts... Some hot corn oil, some corn meal and salt and pepper... maybe some greens and bacon on the side...
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Kinky! Deep south Kama Sutra?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO. Don't get too excited honey, you couldn't handle what passes for kinky in West Virginia.
  
  Hell, I don't think I could handle what passes for kinky in West Virginia. I'm pretty sure some of it might indeed start with a snake... or at least an animal of some kind.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know all about kinkiness in your area, Melissa. The snake must first be either a sibling or cousin of yours, right?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't have to be a blood relative, kin by marriage is fine. We've relaxed our requirements.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I heard they started having schools up there these days, congrats!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus on the cross was unconditional love especially considering that when the world was wicked, God ended the OT and ushered in a new covenant even though He knew many would reject His Son on the cross.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity in a nutshell: Believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and live your life accordingly, or burn forever. And then you would say, "God loves all of His Creation, He just gives us a 'choice.'"
  
  I don't care how angry any of my future children make me or how much they disobey me or the wrong they do, I would NEVER EVER allow them to be eternally punished for it. Do I believe in the importance of consequences, sure! But eternal ones? There is no love there. Just vengeance.
  
  It's all His fault anyway. If He is truly omniscient, He had no business creating Lucifer, aka the Devil. If Adam and Eve were created in His image, then Eve should not have been able to be so easily influenced by the devil posing as a serpent who, again, should never have been created in the first place.
  
  Either God is not omniscient, or He created the Devil knowing full well what he would do. He could've just killed off the devil and his angels and then, guess what, none of this would've been necessary.
  
  Whether there was a chance or not for him(the devil) to do what he supposedly did should be irrelevent to your God, who believes that individuals should be sacrificed for a "greater good." What greater a good is there than that?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  sometimes i balk at the beliefs of christianity. The satan doctrine is so full of holes and to simply believe in a talking snake or a possessed snake makes me wish i had so simple a faith. I used to really wonder why out of all the vast area of space, satan landed on earth. God said it was good, except for a few hundred thousand/million - whatever amount of evil fallen angels. oh an a bunch of bungler nephlim.
  Vengeance, in the above sense, is a flesh attribute, because it is motivated by hateful resentment, not a spiritual attribute that Jesus spoke of - the vengeance of just judgment. Flesh would love to have all 'sinners' get their punishment and even go beyond that into eternity - but in my opinion, God gains nothing by eternal torment and neither does he think that way for He would have all to be saved. One judgment and then the second death i would think would suffice a just God who is merciful.
  Those are good questions you mentioned and sometimes christians are not appeased by Churchianties answers and need to look further into a matter. God bless all those who oppose the stumbling blocks of teachings they cannot simply adopt and still stay within the guidelines of scripture.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You just can't but apply willful ignorance every time someone thoroughly debunks your primitive beliefs. How rigid!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and what was your favorite? and please bring scripture to the table to show my debunkedness.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "I created you, and you were not thankful to Me. You did not worship Me and accept my Son as your Lord and Saviour (from the world I created), and so now you will burn forever." -God's sentiments according to the Bible.
  
  Sounds like hateful resentment to me.
  
  This vengeance is only seen as holy because you see this God as Holy. If you were to judge him like you would any other man, it is just as wrong.
  
  And, Jesus is unnecessary if there is no Hell or eternal punishment. If there is only physical death vs. Heaven, I would prefer death. Now, there's true peace.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago
I just remembered that every time anyone makes a post on a religion thread, that religion thread (and its title) gets posted and linked on that person's profile page. Talk about free advertising! This is a fact that I assure you the religionists never forget.
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
I hate it when you people make me quote scriptures.

Mark 12:31

And the second is like, namely this , Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Romans 13:10

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1 Corinthians 13:13

But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I know there are quotes of love that do not ask for obedience in return, but that may be an oversight on behalf of the hate peddlers who wrote this crud. There are thousands of abusive text in the bible that are pushed as love by the religiously unwell.
  
  I love the way some people here do the big OT and NT disconnect in an attempt to sell the unsaleable.
  
  Let's pretend the OT no longer applies, that should work.
  Well it simply doesn't.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh you big grouch ,c'mere and give us a hug
  
  Psst , I cant see any of the Tri Nations games ,how did the AB's do???
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Always up for a hug! I have no idea about the games Kiwi, I have been moving house, so the net has been an on off on thing, and I still haven't found all my shoes yet!
  I just re-set the 6 year old's computer up, he is absolutely thrilled with windows 7 after XP!
  He now has a very powerful PC compliments of his dad.
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You haven't found ALL of your shoes? Earnest, exactly how many feet do you have?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Here ya go my Aussie neighbour !
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for that! I just got told off by a 5 year old..... something to do with the cheese not being fully melted on her sandwich so I needed that!
  I have to admit to a love of fine Italian footwear, and have quite a few pair I still love to wear.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh nooo not the 'cheese wars' always meant to put a picture on the fridge of kids in 3rd world countries..for those ahem ya being too picky darling lol! eat the bloody thing
  
  Italian eh, fine taste indeed.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Flamin kids! We tried moving house, but they found us.
  
  I love my shoes! I kept one pair of lightweight kid leather pair I had almost forever.
  
  I have been known to pay the price of a good used car for a pair!
  
  One pair are particularly nice. When I wore them in America several people wanted to buy them off me. Handmade in Italy in 3 close tones of burgundy in three grains of leather. Beautiful!
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
*shrugs* wasn't disconnecting OT and NT on purpose.

I've said before the bible is a big book and you find in it what drove you to follow Christ in the first place. If you seek love in Christianity, you'll find it. If you seek hatred, you'll find that too. Its the follower, not the faith.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I you can find the hate in a religion supposedly about an unconditionally loving God, it is something you cannot ignore, when he commands awful things, but people jsut want to pay attention to the fluff in the NT.
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Jonathan Jancoposted 12 years ago
Matthew 10
37] He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Beautiful example of unconditional love. Perhaps the Nicean editors had a sense of humor after all.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I always took that to mean that if you refuse Christ or his teaching because your family pressures you to do such then you aren't worthy of being a Christian anyway.
  
  but that's just my interpretation.
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well here's the verse in context. I think it is very clear about 'God's' 'love' being only with certain conditions.
  Matthew 10
  [33] But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
  [34] Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
  [35] For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
  [36] And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
  [37] He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  v34 Specifically makes it clear right and wrong (Almost like he knew how well mankind likes to word it up,dumb it down,why almost reinvent a word or phrase,lol) until its nothing like what God said originally.
  v35 Religions and various practices prohibited liberty for anyone wanting to chose their own destiny and or worship the Christ.
  
  v36 Aint that the truth!
  
  Just my opinon on the above
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It really doesn't change my personal interpretation you know I've read it before I wasn't working off a single verse.
  
  To me it means he knows he's going to start trouble. Pretty apt considering all the trouble that Christianity has caused. I do lots of things that I know are going to start trouble, doesn't mean that I like trouble... just that I'm willing to deal with it if it means doing the right thing.
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not trying to change anything in you Melissa, just pointing out an example of why the Christian's unconditional love argument really doesnt fly with me. I'm not judging you or your interpretations, but the written words themselves, not to mention the Nicean editors who considered some of 'God's word' less important than others.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, I knew you weren't Jonathan.
  
  I am one of those few Christians that really do believe that the bible is wide open for interpretation. I also know how many times it has been "edited" quite probably for "peasant" control. I also realize how one person can read something with a certain mind set and have it mean something completely different than another person with a different mindset.
  
  I always find it funny, however, the the zealots both for and against religion tend to be very close in their interpretations of a lot of passages. I think it says more about their personalities than it does about the bible.
  
  *ducks*
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I can understand that. I'm one of those few people that believes in God but does not adhere or subscribe to any set religious doctrine. That creates for me a bit of a dilemna. I get the fundies at one side saying Im a heathen and the stubborn atheists at the other saying Im delusional. This of course leaves me with fewer friends than most. So, if I came across as a bit defensive that might explain why.
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  habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm kinda in the same boat, Jonathan! I do have lots of friends, however.
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  healinghands1668posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you wholeheartedly, Melissa. I'm in the same camp of Christian.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is it possible that we try to keep Gods defination of love within our terminology ?
  
  Thinking that as a parent ,I had a friend who thought I was too strict with my kids (then teens) and I thought she was too liberal.
  But if anyone suggested for a moment that we loved our kids any less than each other well ya needed to give yourself plenty of running space
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes Kiwi, some people are truly unconditionally loving no matter what they believe. And then there are some who are very quick to judge no matter what they believe. As for parenting, people are often best to keep their family affairs within their family . . . obviously I would make huge exceptions for cases where abuse is taking place, but that's for another topic.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  True that.
  I guess I was raised in a very large family and it was pretty difficult to keep much inside the walls
  
  The really fun part though is meeting up with people who remember you as a kid -yikes actually the whole family.
  
  Think I like that village type caring.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
I haven't been able to work out how it could be considered zealous to not believe a myth that is torn to shreds daily myself.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  torn to shreds
  
  just like those contradictions and hate scriptures.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you don't watch documentaries then?
  Like I said, torn to shreds daily.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  since you choose to ignore what i said and take this to another arena, i suppose this is a tactic called avoidance, i will ignore what you said and repeat myself a little clearer.
  
  the only thing torn to shreds are your contradiction and hate scripture posts.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  I didn't write them remember? they are all your own.
  Straight from the "good book"
  
  Now take a few deep breaths, and stop displaying your outrage at hearing the truth all over the place at once. Calm down.
  Don't force me to quote little Willy Wavadagger at ya again!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  again with the avoidance.
  I guess you not saying the words... you shot my contradictions all to hell and yeah there were some good points is being what you call, truthful.
  
  you are a man of such caliber.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  You speak of calibre?
  I quoted from YOUR book and you didn't like it so you went to your web reference site and scraped up the list of reasons the bible said kill and meant love and posted it. Seen it all before. But of course with your genius for annulling the whole bible and re-inventing it's meaning still hasn't awoken you to the truth of it being a pile of oft repeated old psychotic washing.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  it's not that i did not like the out of context and sloppily interpreted quotes that you dig up from your web reference site - thank goodness you don't actually think upon those things yourself - but the fact that all those posts needed to be corrected, put into context and explained to mr 30yrs of study, was tedious as it is christianity 001 level.
  And yes i spoke of calibre. I'll let you interpret that as you may not like its real definition.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I like the definition of calibre very well, and can even spell it!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So back to my original statement since you purport to be a man of calibre.
  
  the only thing torn to shreds are your contradiction and hate scripture posts.
  
  I will also add, and other things that you post, referring directly to the origination of this discourse.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are funny!
  They are not MY scripture, I didn't write them.
  
  It is you who own them not me. I wouldn't give tuppence for any of the psychotic crud that fills your tome.
  I see you learned how to spell calibre. wonderful!
  
  Now try to learn these words .........Reality and honesty.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ya
  i guess when i'm shown wrong i will admit it, but you just go about your business of misinformation and denial.
  
  how about you try some reality and honesty and forget the avoidance.
  
  its funny how in a vast majority of posts that which you put on others only reflects yourself, mr xyrs of psychology study.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've never seen you admit anything brothery, all you seem to do is make nasty references to things you half read or don't understand at all.
  A legend in your own lunchtime?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  you'll notice as you half read my post and didn't understand it at all that i said "when i am shown wrong". The fact that you have never seen me admit anything is because i have not been shown wrong, even as i completely obliterated your 'bible contradiction' posts.
  As to nasty, well i am sure you take the cake on that one.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Because I don't buy your hate filled tome and all the christian "love" you display as anything other than self aggrandisement doesn't make me nasty brothery, just a fair bit brighter than you and a lot more honest with myself and others than you are is all.
  
  Seen any good documentaries on the bible lately?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well i guess short memories and denial do create a clear conscience. I am sure i was not talking about only this conversation when i commented about your nastiness, those posts abound all over the place. If you think i am self aggrandised i am sure that is just a reflection of yourself once again. That you infer you are brighter than i and a lot more honest with yourself and others is yet to be confirmed - It is just your self aggrandised opinion.
  When it comes to talking about your shoes you are certainly not short winded
  But i've had enough of this discussion and your avoidance of my initial post.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just thought I'd put in my two cents worth. Having read several of your conversations with Ernest (and others); he's right. Your theories have been debunked. Repeatedly.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  oh goodie..
  which one was your favorite debunking?
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was just messing with you BO. You know I don't really read your conversations with Ernest.
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  thebrucebeatposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In another thread you said you had been a Christian for 2 years. Is that right? Who is Mr. 30 years of study? What did I miss?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i can't mention any names but i do joust with him earnestly and often.
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  healinghands1668posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not believe in it is your choice. The zealotry comes in when a person decides to make enemies of anyone who *does* believe in it, and seeks to insult them or tear them down personally.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently it's not my choice, your god makes the choices and I am expected to smile at the same time as receiving this abuse as "truth"
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes you are expected to smile, others have a much tougher life than yours.
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  thebrucebeatposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And vice versa, in fairness.
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Troy C.posted 12 years ago
Hello everyone, I have been super busy but I see the Gospel is still being spread. The message of redemption and love. Agape love that I seek to have in me but I can honesty say that I love you all. Regardless of your belief or non belief. It's a wonderful thing that as your love increases so does your level of peace.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes Troy, the fictitious old myths are still being spread around as if they were true. Ignorance and superstition still reigns supreme among the adherents of fundamentalist cults like yours.
  
  Perhaps you would post the prophecies regarding the coming of Jesus so we may examine them for accuracy after the fact so we may actually see if your god's supposedly illegitimate son fits the predicted role he was to fulfill.
  
  If you have the nerve to do so, that is.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  all of Isaiah 53
  
  enjoy
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  yah that was a good chapter huh
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  Woman Of Courageposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Troy, Yes indeed!
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Troy C.posted 12 years ago
Hello everyone, I have been super busy but I see the Gospel is still being spread. The message of redemption and love. Agape love that I seek to have in me but I can honesty say that I love you all. Regardless of your belief or non belief.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What's with the double post?
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
@ Earnest:

"wish the too dumb to breed thing worked. I know hate and fear of the unknown is passed from generation to generation, and someone has to stop the generational rot. The only way I see forward is education."

I know that wasn't a personal attack, but still when you say things like that you are making huge generalizations and I happen to be one of the people you are throwing in there. Just for the record, I'm fairly intelligent, don't really hate anyone (but my ex-husband and I'm working on that) and have absolutely no fear of the unknown. My religious lessons to my kids are basically "How will you know which faith, if any, is right for you unless you examine them all?" I have a son that was a christian before I was, another son who is a wiccan and I'm fine with both.

(The youngest hasn't picked her path yet, I'm guessing she will probably assume that she is God for awhile longer)

So, when you talk about every Christian being this or that, realize that you are making a lot of untrue statements about a lot of people.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I went back over the post, and I did not think I included any individual. I stated that I believe that people who are dumb still breed, and think that is a fair statement.
  I also think it fair to say that education is the only way I see to forward that position. I am glad to know your kids are doing well.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That kinda was the point Earnest. You didn't aim it at an individual, you aimed it at all members of a religion. Its the broad sweeping generalizations such as "all Christians do this" or "all Muslims do this" that are dangerous.
  
  When you narrow a group to it's most repugnant members then cast their characteristics onto the entire group, you are (obviously) stereotyping. Those within the group that you are stereotyping that don't fit the mold are ignored in favor of the preset image because it is inconvenient to have to redefine definitions.
  
  Stereotypes dehumanize the members of the group so that it is okay to insult them. But individuals of that group are still insulted by the generalization of the group.
  
  I don't like being called dumb, because I'm not. I don't like being called hateful, because I'm not. I don't like being told that I am brainwashing my kids because that parenting philosophy is so far from where I stand that you can't see it from here. But when you make statements that include ALL Christians, you are including me.
  
  I still love you though, you said my kid was cute I was just pointing out how I feel during these little debates.
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Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years ago
A-men! I wish many blessings in your life. Health, joy and peace! You are so correct in that we have a great responsiblty to spread the good news. I don't even want to think about where I would be today. If someone never told me about HIS love and the price he paid so that I may live.
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  habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jo, I have a question for you. I'm a Christian who's not thrilled with organized religion. I know the Bible says we're supposed to tell people about Christ who don't know about Him. But let's face it: practically everyone in America knows about Christianity. If they chose another path, so be it. Where does one draw the line between "spreading the good news" and "forcing it down someone's throat"? I'm not trying to be mean - I'm being serious. And I'm not referring to posting messages on forums, either.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Crossed wires here somewhere. I was replying to Jerami who made the original statement, and was not inclusive.
You must have me confused with one of the many religious here who repeatedly tell me I am going to rot in hell, that I am stupid and hateful, don't know what love is and a hundred other insults, al said by their god. Hate and loathing by proxy! Is this to be ignored?

I never respond with other than information or links if the game ain't loaded!
I don't weigh my words, I feel what is said and respond in kind.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know, it wasn't really an argument more of an observation. I guess I could have picked one of a million quotes (such as Jeremy's) to address it. You just won the "I haven't had my coffee yet" lotto.
  
  Both sides do it. Hell both sides do it to me directly, as well as indirectly.
  
  Earnest, you do realize though that the people who are telling you these things really aren't God right? They may think they speak for him, but Jesus-to my knowledge-has never posted on the HP forums. No, you don't have to ignore insults and hatred, but please acknowledge that it isn't Christ, its a handful of his followers that are using their interpretations of his words to further their own agendas.
  
  Believe it or not, I don't like it any more than you do. Probably less, since it is my faith that those few individuals are twisting to suit their purpose.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm always happy to have an amicable discussion.
  
  I get that they aren't gods, the same as I more than get their megalomania in making the projection in the first place!
  
  I have members of my own family who hold a few different beliefs, such as Jewish and even Orthodox greek.
  I never rush up to them to tell them my theories on what they should do with their lives to be "right" I don't start forums that begin with the old "Are you still beating your wife" format either as some of these people do.
  The info in the book is psychotic, what you do with it and how you deny or deal with that is always your business. I just get fed with zealots spreading their self hate crud to other people and their children.
  I got morals ya know!
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't like "God's referral program" either. I think it is too often used as an excuse to pass judgement. If you are standing at a gay pride parade with signs with bible verses on them, you aren't spreading the word you are using the bible as a weapon against something YOU don't like.
  
  If you are standing behind the counter in a soup kitchen after working your ass off all day and say "God Bless You" you MIGHT be spreading the word of God.
  
  If someone comes up to you and asks why you chose Christianity and you tell them straight from your heart, then you are probably spreading the word.
  
  Just my take on it.
  
  I don't think that anything in the bible is psychotic. I think that years of editing and the tendency of man to "interpret" from his point of view has created a text that is probably skewed in places. I also think that our individual interpretations are probably skewed as well.
  
  I'm sure that mine are.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nice post melissa.
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Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years ago
You asked an honest question that surprize! I do have an answer to share with you. My earth dad grew up in the Catholic church, was baptised and confirmed, and a alter boy. This was on Sundays only at church would he *walk the talk*. As soon as we left church, he would take us all home, drink to get drunk, and beat up our mother and hurt us kids. When I was about 14, I had the overwhelming urge to hurt him as much as he had hurt us. A girl I met in school showed me by her actions the love of God. I use to make fun of her and flip her lock on her school locker. One day she caught me doing this. She fixed it and gave me a hug! As she was hugging me, I began to cry. The answer is..walk, talk, and live as Jesus would. Then you may have someone ask you what is the driving force behind your actions! Does this help? oh, and hugs!
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  habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. Actions speak much louder than words!
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
And furthermore *as I drink my coffee* to the OP: Missionary tends to mean that you are actually getting off your butt and doing something that models "Christlike" behavior. So, if you aren't feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, or helping to heal the sick, then you really aren't being a missionary are you? Quoting bible verses doesn't make you more Christlike.

If you want to be a cyber missionary, then you should be sitting up charitable websites or writing articles with calls to action for volunteering.

Arguing on a religious forum is hardly what I would consider missionary work.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
I have enjoyed our chat, but it is 10.30pm here, so I am off to bed.
Have a great day today.
You are a moderate, I am not so much so as you have seen.

I can even agree that the thousands of psychotic verses in the bible, (and I can prove what psychosis is of course) can be seen as a projection of the darker side of self, but taken as written law it is the working of a sick mind to make many of the statements in the OT.
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Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years ago
Melissa,
I agree with your statements. I believe and it is just my opinion, That there are many who say "I am a Christian", and go out and judge people, kill people and all other un Christ things. There are many who would argue that the Christ followers are bringing everyone else down, causing wars and killing babies. The people who do this are not from the God I believe in or follow. When I see an angry comment, my first words out of my mouth is
"ouch". Then I close my eyes and pray that they will *see the light*. Even non believers have their right to not believe. I have my right to pray that they someday may believe and then become a member of the family of Love, peace, joy, humbleness,forgiveness..ect. I have yet to be 'officially called for that type of service in a missionary capacity. When I do see someone hungry physically, emotionally or in spirit, I will feed. The naked, I will literally give the shirt off my back. When a person is sick with sadness, I try and offer comfort. When the body is sick, I offer chicken soup. I hope you enjoy the coffee..and I pass you some fruit to enjoy!
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Troy C.posted 12 years ago
Anyone can call themselves a Christian but the true followers of Christ and his teachings, who have the love of God in their hearts don't do these things. That's like saying because an atheist did any of those things they all are bad seeds.
Come to think of it, every person who calls themselves an atheist is a true atheist; not true of Christians.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So glad you are here to give us those words of wisdom, Troy.
  
  Which fundamentalist cult have you been indoctrinated into?
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Troy C.posted 12 years ago
It's a wonderful thing that the more Gods love grows in your heart, the more at peace you become. To anyone who is seeking peace come to Jesus, who is the prince of peace.
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
Actually, I think the closest thing to "the prince of peace" in religion is the Jain thinker Parshva. Just saying.

And everyone who believes in Christ is a Christian. A true Christian. You don't get to say who is a member of a religion or not. Who are you to judge a master's servant?
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Jonathan Jancoposted 12 years ago
brotheryochanan wrote:
I could have gone into greater length and detail but i assume everyone is above moron stage.

Psychology . (no longer in technical use; considered offensive) a person of borderline intelligence in a former and discarded classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.

Not a nice thing to say if I may be so bold.

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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
It's the faith Melissa.
The hate and total lack of morals towards others displayed throughout the OT is something that requires denial. What the hell else can a believer in this crud do with the smiting torture, rape, pillaging, maiming and murder of the OT.... ignore it of course!

No, the myth is shattered, it's so been busted!

Watch some of the current documentaries and you will see that even the most fear filled bible basher will come around to seeing that which it has become impossible not to see. The truth is here, in the form of peer reviewed hard nosed reality with facts, evidence that the JC yarn is just another of many yarns of the time, what is behind all the bible stories and details of when they were told before the bible was written......all seeing the light of day.
The hate filled controlling brainwashing mess will come to an end thank dog!
Religionists are no longer permitted or encouraged by their government to kill or torture non believers any more so I'm afraid the cat is out of the bag on this religion thing.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "What the hell else can a believer in this crud do with the smiting torture, rape, pillaging, maiming and murder of the OT.... ignore it of course!"
  
  rape:
  rape gets 44 hits all returned grapes in the old testament
  raped gets 2 hits both scraped in the OT.
  rape gets 3 hits all returned grapes in the new testament
  raped gets 0 hits NT.
  Dinah was not raped but she was defiled and the young mans soul clave unto dinah that he wanted to marry her. But the clansmen would not have another tribe marry into their lineage so they called her defiled, which is not rape.
  So where are all the rapes in the bible?
  
  torture
  no hits in the OT for torture.
  
  Pillaging:
  pillage gets no hits in the OT and none in the NT
  Pillaging makes sense to take stuff off dead bodies probably because they will not be using it. During roman times it was a perk to the job as indeed all warring nations considered the spoils, profit and wages. Except abraham of course, a man of God who said he wanted nothing to do with the spoils of the kings he slew to get his brother back whom they has stolen. (genesis 14:22 onward)
  
  maiming:
  maime in the NT gets 6 hits, 4 of those are calls to bring the maimed to jesus for healing and two metaphorically ask that if an eye offend thee pluck it out for it is better to enter heaven halt or maimed than not to enter at all.
  maim in the OT gets 4 hits, levitical rules 1 hit, and the other 3 are town partial names.
  
  murder:
  murder (er) (s) 17 verses. 6 say a murderer shall be put to death. the seventh is worth quoting
  Numbers 35:31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.
  - talk about dying to self -
  and the rest of the scriptures is using murder in a negative connotation.
  
  Are you talking about war? War between nations, warring nations?
  like, the roman legions, spartans, trojans, Alexander the Great, Mongols, Knights Templar, Genghis Khan, Duke of Wellington (british) 1769-1851 AD; Robert the Bruce of Scotland 1274-1329) King of Scotland. lets go back farther in history - Nubian archers in 1500 BC; Sythian nomads middle of the 2nd millenium BC and the end of the 7th century BC; the persians of course, biblical, latter half of the 4th century BC; Celtic warriors 1000-800 BC; Ch'in warriors - Ch'in [Qín] Dynasty 255-207 BC;
  That is enough... so you say that war is a bible outrageousness! Well my friend history is full of wars, mankind has always warred. I did not mention WW1 and WW2 or others. War is a tool mankind uses and God either has to get around it or go through it. We cannot blame God for protecting his people in barbarous times any sane person should be able to compute that as well as we cannot blame God for war in our time.. Gulf war etc.
  
  If there is a cat out of the bag i perceive you first put the cat in the bag
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  justcuriouserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's great to be excited about one's faith and to be anxious to use all the wonderful tools available for bible study, but it isn't wise to use a screwdriver to hammer a nail.
  You are using a concordance to look up concepts, and that is a misuse of the tool. The only thing you can look up with a concordance is a word, not an idea or activity that could be called many things. A murder could be a slaying, a smoting, a smiting or many other words. The defilement you mention was a rape in the story.
  When using a concordance, it is also important to make sure you are using the one that matches your translation. Since I see you are dedicated to the most outdated translation available (though beautifully written), then you are probably using Strong's and that's appropriate. Each translation has a concordance that will match it and find the appropriate words for that translation.
  But a concordance doesn't tell us how to study the concept of joy, for example. It would leave out all the moments in scripture where peoples hearts are full or spirits are moved and other variations on the idea of joy. Many people will fall into this trap. Experience will allow you to avoid it.
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
Wow, I don't know who to reply to first.

But, before I respond at all I want to ask Earnest and Thousand a question: My religion and Bible doesn't make me angry. I'm happy and at peace. So why does a book, that you don't even believe in, make YOU so angry?

@ Earnest "Religionists are no longer permitted or encouraged by their government to kill or torture non believers any more so I'm afraid the cat is out of the bag on this religion thing."

I never encouraged my Government, or anyone, to kill or torture non -believers. I am a religionist. Ergo, not all religionists encourage such behavior.

Also, I don't really care about myths being busted and so forth. The truth is what I feel. That is my reality. I am inspired by the words and actions of Christ. Whether he was a myth, a prophet, or the living breathing son of God is largely irrelevant. He is a role model for love, charity, and forgiveness in a world that has few role models with those virtues.

@ Thousand If I want to believe in all the "fluff", and it makes me want to be a kinder more loving person, then are you saying I am wrong? I should interpret the Bible as you do? Because it seems you only see hate in the book. Why would you want me to feel the same?
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  Marie-AnneLeClercposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Melissa, I don't know whaaa toooo say!!! - but your a blast _ I Loooooove Whaaaaaat You have tooooo saaaaaaay! - Keep it strong -"Girl!!!!!"....
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Firstly let me say that I would like to know how you decided anyone was angry, and if so why would that in any way invalidate what is said?
  
  The book accuses and blames the creation not the creator, a bit like a carpenter blaming the chair he made for being faulty and is a myth, not any kind of "truth"
  
  The point I made about religionists no longer being allowed to kill non believers is true and only recent history, it used to be done with impunity, a point I would have thought was worth making.
  I would also say that Jesus types were a dime a dozen on the ground, and christianity or following christ was one of many alternatives at the time.
  It is also interesting to think about how many christians would have been muslim or Hindu if born into those cultures, especially where killing non believers is still OK with the locals and the government as in some countries still.
  
  It simply makes no sense.
  
  Do I want to stop these dangerous religious myths from growing? Of course I do! Religion is tearing the world apart as we speak, and bible or quoran hate is behind all the justification for the killings.Thousands of vehemently opposed views within the religions themselves even result in grand hate sessions between people of the same religion as can be seen throughout all these posts.
  
  I have children and grandchildren I love to consider, and I would prefer they live in a world that is not driven by religious zealots.
  
  Religious people seem to start off being moderate, (mainly because they have never studied their religion) then become more and more radicalised by the fundies who run organised religion, flog their fall-on-your-ass-for-jesus healing stunts, and behave in ways that if they weren't under the umbrella of religious belief would result in them being jailed for fraud.
  No, it is all a crock and the sooner the current documentaries tear it to shreds the better for mankind.
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  Marie-AnneLeClercposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  F--K the book & lets be "Earnest" - You may have to write a hub one day about it~~~
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have. The title is "The biblical god is a psychopath" A nice gentle read.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Great Thought...Earnest. I like it.
  
  I have one comment for the above phrase though from a personal view.
  
  I don't mind the myth growing, as long as everyone understands that it is just a MYTH!!! And not try to sell it as truths.
  
  I enjoy Greek and Roman mythology very much, but I don't based how I live my life from those "truths".
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am also very interested in mythology, and it forms a large part of the imagery and background for ongoing psychological studies.
  
  As you stated, what is important is that myth although useful to educate consciousness is not fact, so claiming it as reality and truth is another matter altogether.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Completely agree. Maybe one day this will be an understood format of thinking for society as a whole.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What amazes me is the knowledge the Greeks had of the human condition and the means they used to express it in the myths.
  It was a model for such minds as Jung to form an ever growing base to add understanding to the mass conscious and probably along with other myths caused psychotherapy to access a whole new ball game and get closer to many a deeply buried neurosis.
  
  The Greek myths are beautiful in their simplicity, although the individual characters are sometimes quite complex as in the case of the crippled character related to the creative aspect of self and many other illuminating characteristics. I must read them all again, thanks for bringing up the great myths.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You know what is funny to me...People can "read between the lines" when it comes to the bible...but see nothing in the Greek and Roman myths other than kid stories.
  
  *correction* I have the complete works of the Greek myths.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I should be jealous!
  I DID have the complete works until they were destroyed in a flood last year along with a lot of my library. I saved all of William Shakespeare cos I love a little of it, and all my valuable Honore De Balzac classics, a bit of my extensive psychology library including every word written by Carl Jung, and the rest including my religious and myth libraries were washed out the door.
  
  It's my birthday tomorrow, I may shout myself a few books as presents!
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  hschicaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Reading the Geek myths again had been something on my list of to do's for a while. I only wish I had more time! (Three jobs and attending school full time leaves me with little free time.) I've been following along with the discussions you all have been having ether purest couple days on my phone but haven't had much time to contribute, myself. Wonderful discussion though!
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Only 3 jobs? Just kiddin. Great times to be had in 3 places. Ask for more money!
  My son has just finished uni (for now at least) and had a good strategy worked out. He got a couple of extra job specific qualifications when he found out which jobs paid the best hourly rate and fitted his lacrosse commitments. (State level, so a tough call.)
  He was able to work less hours for more money.
  
  Good luck with all those jobs.
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  hschicaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I believe the bible is meant to be interpreted us such, not literally. The creation story, for example, should be interpreted as myth, in my opinion. The bible should be treated as all other literature and be open for interpretation. "god" was not the author, humans were, just as the authors of other literature of the time.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  True.
  
  Another interesting aside, is that many other religious entities of the time are coming to the fore in discussion since the excellent TV documentaries began on NatGeo TV. It will soon be obvious to any open minded believer (if there could be such a person) to readily see the source of their myths and see the foolishness of being literal in understanding any myths legends or stories from so far in the past.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You know...I see some of the comments made by some who I consider to be on the "fundie" side. And I would have to say, that they will not be able to see anything past their own beliefs. People have said that they have had questions and went in search of answers...but I wondered if they searched for answers or if they searched for an answer to the question that already fit into their beliefs?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *Shrugs*
  
  Not sure if I'd be considered a fundie (I know they wouldn't consider me one) but I've done both.
  
  It's the same with all kinds of guidance though, not just religion. It's easier to accept direction if it's the same direction you are inclined to go anyway. Human nature and such.
  
  I received confirmation in the words of the bible on whether I should homeschool or not (I was inclined to say yes, and so I saw that message in the verses I read more easily)
  
  I am not, by nature, a forgiving person. So the verses on forgiveness were a little harder to stomach and abide by. (I find myself slipping alot)
  
  Hope that answers it?
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It was more of a questioned comment, than an actual question. But, from what I have seen, you are not really what I would call a "fuddie". And I try, for the most part, to not directly single out a person. I try to state my post in a broad sense if it can be done.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't really feel singled out Just felt like throwing my two cents in. My daughter is in "no hopes of going to sleep" mode and I'm passing the time until she passes out.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I like the "2 cents". Those pennies of knowledge add up over time.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is also true in my opinion. It amazes me that they don't see that non belief is not another religion. It is simply non belief. I don't believe in unicorns either.
  
  I can change my beliefs in a heartbeat and often do, I have no invisible entity to defend, I am free to believe or not believe anything at any time unlike those in the "word" which is whatever the hell their pastor told them.
  
  Not exactly any real way to attack someone who says. "I simply believe it is myth" is there?
  
  So the answer to the dilemna for religionists is that all but self must be in need of redemption? Yeah right!
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well one thing I do believe in is Unicorns...not the horse type...but the narwhal whale is a unicorn (single horned) animal. And I seen goats with a centered single horn (assisted by man of course).
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I should have read up on whales! Awesome!
  
  OK I'm good with unicorns as well.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey D.S
  
  My theory (for me) is if it aint broke -(my relationship with Christ) then dont fix it study/research til I hurt lol
  
  Oh my Ive missed out on a lot of hub business ,should I scroll or should I go (song) lol !
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But you aren't a "fuddie" either (at least in my opinion). Some people do have questions about their faith or beliefs, but when they attempt to search for an answer, I wonder if they are really searching or are they looking to confirm an answer they already think they have.
  
  Education is good thing always...Just because you have learned something that isn't in line with your beliefs, doesn't mean you have to change your beliefs...just that you have learned something new. To often fear prevents us from spreading our wings and flying....
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I absolutely agree with you on the education thing. For instance wherever I am I love to check out the culture of the environment where am I living ,even in the spiritual sense. Of course I am more comfortable with certain atmospheres,but given the chance Id love to visit a Mosque sometimes.
  Down south (South Carolina),I became curious about the many churches and the difference between Baptist and Southern Baptist.
  
  Now I am up north (OH) there will be a Pentecostal meeting with visiting guests etc- I just gotta be there!
  
  My sons challenge me often on spiritual and secular matters and they live in New Zealand!!
  
  Love to learn -yes,and I never want to stop
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was born and raised in Ohio. There is a variety of churches in that state. If you get the chance check out the Amish community.
  
  I have been around the world a few times being Navy, and I really enjoy the different cultures.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Will do,since I already enjoy their baked goods lol.
  
  We stayed for 3 weeks in this cute cabin near the Pymatuning Lake and every morning really early I would hear an Amish buggy clip clopping down the road.
  
  It was all new to me ,after a few mornings of me curiously just watching ,he finally waved out lol!
  
  Then we moved across the stateline ,but I believe we might still be near some farms etc.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i watched dinosaur mummy timeline: here's an excerpt:
  
  A dinosaur mummy consists of fossilized soft tissue and is the rarest of finds in paleontology. Even a single dinosaur mummy discovery has the potential to change our understanding of all dinosaurs. Explore some of the significant dinosaur mummy discoveries and find out how they have changed the way we think about dinosaurs
  
  I find it encouraging to know that mans wisdom is being educated all the time and that mans thinking always seem to be in process of evolution. But what i really appreciate is that it shows how much man does not know, and how egotistical man is to think they know it all.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Zeus was the god of the sky and ruler of the Olympian gods. Zeus overthew his Father Cronus. He then drew lots with his brothers Poseidon and Hades. Zeus won the draw and became the supreme ruler of the gods. He is lord of the sky, the rain god. His weapon is a thunderbolt which he hurls at those who displease him (nice ). He is married to Hera but, is famous for his many affairs . He is also known to punish those that lie or break oaths (yeah thats the kind of ruler ya want). He was the rain god, and the cloud gatherer, who wielded the terrible thunderbolt. His breastplate was the aegis, his bird the eagle, his tree the oak. He is represented as the god of justice and mercy, the protector of the weak, and the punisher of the wicked.
  
  Hades is the brother of Zeus. After the overthow of their Father Cronus he drew lots with Zeus and Poseidon, another brother, for shares of the world. He had the worst draw and was made lord of the underworld, ruling over the dead. He is a greedy god (convenient) who is greatly concerned with increasing his subjects. Those whose calling increase the number of dead are seen favorably. The Erinnyes are welcomed guests. He is exceedingly disinclined to allow any of his subjects leave.
  He is also the god of wealth, (how convenient) due to the precious metals mined from the earth. He has a helmet that makes him invisible . He rarely leaves the underworld. He is unpitying and terrible, but not capricious. His wife is Persephone whom Hades abducted. He is the King of the dead but, death itself is another god, Thanatos.
  
  Aphrodite is the goddess of love, desire and beauty. In addition to her natural gifts she has a magical girdle that compels anyone she wishes to desire her . There are two accounts of her birth.
  One says she is the daughter of Zeus and Dione.
  The other goes back to when Cronus castrated Uranus and tossed his severed genitles into the sea . Aphrodite then arose (popped up) from the sea foam on a giant scallop and walked to shore in Cyprus.
  She is the wife of Hephaestus. The myrtle is her tree. The dove, the swan, and the sparrow her birds. Her favorite lover is the god of war, Ares (opposites attract lol). She represented sex, affection, and the attraction that binds people together.
  
  Hermes is the son of Zeus and Maia. He is Zeus messenger. He is the fastest of the gods. [u ]He wears winged sandals, a winged hat, and carries a magic wand [/u]. He is the god of thieves and god of commerce. He is the guide for the dead to go to the underworld. He invented the lyre, the pipes, the musical scale, astronomy , weights and measures, boxing, gymnastics, and the care of olive trees. (lets not forget those olive trees)
  
  Yes! lets all jump on this bandwagon I have some magic land in florida for sale
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "The point I made about religionists no longer being allowed to kill non believers is true and only recent history, it used to be done with impunity, a point I would have thought was worth making.
  I would also say that Jesus types were a dime a dozen on the ground, and christianity or following christ was one of many alternatives at the time."
  
  Catholicism is to blame for that killing spree. Jesus types that were a dime a dozen i am sure were sitting at home, worrying about what the judaic people and rome were going to do them, whom were NON jesus people.
  
  "It is also interesting to think about how many christians would have been muslim or Hindu if born into those cultures, especially where killing non believers is still OK with the locals and the government as in some countries still."
  
  MOOT point. Christianity is in north america for a reason and that reason is that it is far away from muslim or hindu - whom are dominantly in their original part of the world, but have spread not due to God sending them but do to airplanes and population increase. God spread Christianity around the world to be free of these false religions and to give it a place to grow.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I understand what you are saying. I used to love what I read about in the NT, and picked and pulled what seemed to fit more with the NT from the OT, without really realizing it. But, there came a day, after I stepped back and allowed myself to think, eventually getting past the fear that I would get struck by lightning or get cancer for questioning God to the extent which I do now, much more often, when I could not ignore what was in the OT. (Yes, I am a former Christian) And, for me, the "good" just doesn't outway the bad, and many of what I believed good in the NT isn't really so good...
  
  But, I'm not angry. Not anymore, anyway. I think it's just a matter of cognitive dissonance, and how this ability that we have is dangerous when it comes to religions like this, because it causes it to be spread around as absolute truth by those really devoted to and convinced by it, who defend the ugly with the "fluff." If God is unchanging, then the God in the OT and NT are the same. If nothing else, I could never go back to that religion because of this simple fact, alone.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Brothery, I said I lost my books, not that I needed their characters read to me so I would remember them! Don't you read other people's posts?

The magic word that make all the difference in the world is MYTH.

As to the characters of these gods, and their obvious insanity you seem to have missed the meaning of the myths entirely.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  hahaha
  I can completely understand you not wanting them read back to you, i mean, how embarrassing is that? Can anyone say a few items short of a combo pack?
  yah the meaning of the myths... lol.. i much prefer the meaning of the bible stories thanks. I don't know what there is to grasp by the casting of genitals into the sea and out popping aphrodite... and the titan myths oh my gosh wheres the popcorn, im gonna bust a gut. Put on your magic winged hat and come on over.
  They are stupid myths
  enjoy them
  it seems you are in good company with them
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For someone who claims to be christian...your actions speak otherwise.
  
  The bible myths are no different than the greek or roman myths...I mean seriously, Jonah was suppose to have spent 3 days in the belly of a great fish and managed to live through that. And a man was killed and 3 days later was raised from the dead and was assended up to the "heavens". The "holy spirit" got a 13-14 year old girl pregnant. People lived to be 300-900 years old. Certain people didn't die, but were "taken".
  
  The difference between the Greek and Roman myths and the myth that is the bible, is that everyone knows that the Greek and Roman myths are just stories and not to be taken literally, it is called education. At one point those myths were as real as the bible myth is taken today. Hopefully, mankind becomes educated enough to see the bible is to be taken for what it really is...A book of mythological stories...
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It will one day, But we won't see it in our lifetime.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Series like these will help it's demise. Everything happens quicker with technology!
  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 9810625112
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't think you would grasp their many meanings that amplify the human condition as you don't seem to even be capable of separating myth from reality.
  The bible myth is a myth, just like the others, the difference is that most recognise that they are myths, whereas the bible is somehow truth to you and other religionists despite the fact that your myth is getting trashed by current science and history.
  
  The world was overrun by religious christs in biblical times. The christians won the lottery, and you lot bought the kool aid as "facts."
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
Just so there's no mistake here...

This is Amy Wilson.

She opened and orphanage and kept young girls from being forced into prostitution in India. She was a missionary.

This is Everett Swanson.

After serving as spiritual inspiration to the troops in Korea, he was so moved by the horrible living situation of the children in the area that he started an organization that would eventually feed over a million children all over the world. That charity is now known as compassion international. He was a missionary.

This is Corrie ten Boom

She helped hide Jews from the Nazis. As a result, she was placed in a concentration camp, lost a sister and her father in other camps. She went on to spread a the message of forgiveness for the rest of her life. Including forgiving a Nazi Guard.

She was a Missionary.

This is an internet troll.

He argues for the sake of arguing. If he has anything important to say, it is only aimed at those who totally disagree with him and falls quickly on deaf ears. He exists only for self gratification and to assure himself that ONLY he is right and everyone else is clearly stupid.

Just hopes that clears things up for the "Cyber Missionaries"
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  justcuriouserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A truly great post!
  You are a Christian who is dedicated to the part of the faith that is truly challenging. Love. One does not need a God to be judgmental or angry or rude or holier than thou. Humans come to these traits easily. But to reflect the Fruits of the Spirit is a real challenge, and you pursue them furiously, and I love you for it.
  Peace, love, joy, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.
  Let the missionaries embrace these first before they attempt to increase their numbers.
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Troy C.posted 12 years ago
To all my fellow cyber missionaries, you are true missionaries in every since of the word. One has but to look up the definition of a missionary and we fit the description and remember that it was Jesus himself who gave us our marching orders in Matthew 28:18-20, so be encouraged.
I pray that the Lord our God protect you,strengthen you and bless you with all that you need to carry out his will for your lives and that you find peace in knowing that he truly loves you and cares for you. To God be all glory! Amen.

Always remember Ephesians 6:12 For we are not fighting against flesh-and- blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in heavenly places. So put on God,s armor so you can stand; stand in confidence and faith under the protective wing of our almighty God and he will provide.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen Troy. I am praying for you also. I love the title of this thread. Be encouraged!
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  Ms Deeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are an encouragement to me, Troy
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Its not easy to share your faith in an often 'faithless' environment Troy.
  However I am reminded of this phrase:
  
  Tis good to "Stand for something,or one falls for anything"
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is totally discouraging, to hear an adult, in the twenty-first century assert such nonsense. This is the equivalent of telling a grown-up that there are REAL monsters under the bed.
  
  When one matures, he sees just how extremely childish and delusional these comments are. Truly disturbing!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well if you had another hobby maybe you wouldn't be so discouraged
  
  psst... the real monsters aren't under the bed, they are inside flesh
  
  IF you need proof of that.. just walk off into the woods for 3 days and see what you become.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's exactly what I have been trying to say. The insane God that you believers have created is only INSIDE your delusional minds!
  
  Brother, sometimes, you speak with such clarity. Although it is only momentary, you should be commended.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is amazing what one can find when looking up definitions.
  
  "By the 1860s, in Hawai'i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the carnage that by then had reduced those islands' native population by 90 percent or more, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this missionary said, somewhat equivalent to 'the amputation of diseased members of the body'."
  
  In 1795 the London Missionary Society was formed, its immediate attention focused upon the Pacific; two years later a convict ship bound for Australia put the first missionaries ashore on Tahiti. They, too, were overwhelmed by the warmth of their welcome...
  
  The Tahitians built their houses, fed them, and provided them with servants galore, but after seven years not a convert had been made.
  
  But another seven years of such attempted indoctrination produced no results, then suddenly the great breakthrough took place. The device which eventually established the unswerving missionary rule is described in a letter to home by one of the brethren, J.M.Orsmond. "All the missionaries were at that time salting pork and distilling spirits... Pomare (the local chief) had a large share..." Orsmond describes the compact by which Pomare, reduced to an alcoholic, would be backed in a war against the other island chiefs on the understanding that his victory would be followed by enforced conversion. Since Pomare was supplied with firearms to be used against his opponents clubs, victory was certain. "The whole nation", Orsmond wrote, "was converted in a day."
  
  http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4e.htm
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  reverend = catholic
  
  "All the missionaries were at that time salting pork and distilling spirits.."
  obviously alcohol
  obviously catholic
  
  please stop mingling the good christian way with catholicism.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No one will ever take away your personal opinions on who is a Christian and who is not, good or otherwise.
  
  What we do find here are those Christians/Catholics who are the most vocal about what are "good" Christians and what are not are those who rarely show they follow the teachings of Christ.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Um, Reverend is also baptist...
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
Oh I give up. At least if they are in their house on their computers, they aren't burning a cross in somebody's yard, bombing a women's health clinic, or putting the families of a fallen soldier through hell.

Preach on Cyber Missionaries, it will keep you busy and out of society's hair.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  MB
  
  Maybe theres something in the water
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm beginning to wish it was in the koolaid too.
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Audith Johnsonposted 12 years ago
This has been a great discussion, excellent comebacks, and observations. Keep the intrigue coming.
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Amazon Tracking Pixel	Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
Clicksco	This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)

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