I have said many times that what you seek in the bible you shall find. Still I see the same few verses being thrown around in support of one opinion or another. I wonder why those particular verses stick with certain people and other, just as worthy verses are ignored.
Like this one... admittedly from the OT...
Like one who grabs a stray dog by the ears
is someone who rushes into a quarrel not their own.
That seems pretty straight forward to me. It seems like this verse is saying that anyone who meddles in another's affair is most likely going to be harmed from it. I take this as a warning to stay out of other people's business.
And here is a very clear warning about the evils of meddling...
1 Peter 4:15
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Anyone who doubts the seriousness of meddling really needs to look at this verse. Those who insist on interfering with another person's life are placed on the same scale as murders and thieves. Pretty sobering.
1 Thessalonians 4:10-11
10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
Study to be quiet and to do your own business. That's a pretty powerful statement too.
So, from these three verses alone I'm getting the impression that "Go forth and spread the word" didn't mean forcing your opinions down others peoples throats or trying to control what other people do. It seems to me that God specifically went out of his way to teach his followers to avoid that type of behavior.
It seems no one wants to meddle with your business and are avoiding this post.
LOL, when I am posting verses that essentially remind Christians that God said to shut up and go about their own business, it really doesn't bother me to NOT get an argument. Since that was pretty much my point.
They are not going to argue with you. They are going to largely ignore you and continue to meddle. They do not follow what the bible says. Most of them have never even bothered to read it.
You are right, when you say we will not argue (we will try not to anyway)
However, we will not ignore her
We try to follow what the Bible says in context, while you guys take it out of context to suit your opinions
And, right again, many of us have not read the entire Bible....
So, your point is.....???
You have the right to tell Christians to shut up and stop meddling in other folks business...
But, we won't because Jesus said, Go ye into all the earth, making disciples of all men.....
The scriptures do not contradict themselves. Jesus didn't mind his own business, He was ever speaking out in public about religious traditions and sin. Paul, Peter and all the rest stood up in the middle of many a city street and preached the gospel...They were also in everyone's business.
They lost their lives because they refused not to "meddled..." But how shall they hear without a preacher?
Again, we have a mandate to "meddle" and, so we shall continue to "meddle". Call us what you want, comment how you choose, it won't change us because what we do is strategically designed to change you.
Love ya for real.....
It's funny how some people just never learn and never see the consequences of their actions caring about no one but themselves. Stir that pot!
So, if we don't change, we are selfish,
What does it mean if you don't change? Please show me the difference...
Hand me the spoon!
Selfish would be to go around disrespectfully making demands that others decide to accept your religion or not. You can choose to change that if you like. Just because a book tells you to do that doesn't mean you have to do that. There are lots of things written in books that we can do, but we don't because we find doing those things is disrespectful towards others. They are selfish acts if you continue to carry them out.
By the same token, it means that some atheists should stop browbeating Christians and other religious people if they aren't doing anything more objectionable than minding their own business.
I understand some of the more proselytizing and insulting Christians make themselves easy targets, but saying that all religious people are insane or that religious people worship murderers doesn't really help the conversation either.
But then people of different faiths and atheists are likewise not bound by the Bible. So, if they have reasons to not browbeat Christians then those will probably come from places other than the Bible.
Yes, people should have the freedom to believe in any outrageous or fantastic belief they want in the comfort, privacy and security of their own homes, never bringing it door to door demanding others accept or deny it.
Why anyone would want to believe in the outrageous or fantastic is another bizarre story yet to be rationalized.
God Our Father is God and the Son Our Lord Jesus Christ, they are not a multitude of religions they are the Creators of the Universe (Genesis 1:26). We are to live for God, obey His commands, ordinances, statutes and laws, go to church, study/read the bible, give tithes and offerings, have fellowship with others, teach/preach the word to others to brings souls to God, teach people of the second coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ and pray always for everything giving thanksgiving and praise to God the Father for all things. We are in the End Times and we should not be arguing but concentrating on our relationship with God the Father and the Son (Hebrews 1) and not follow false religions. Become the person God wants us to be to serve Him as His children. Arguments and debates just waste time. The King James Bible is the accepted, authentic bible that we are to study from and live by. You can not add or take away from anything in the bible Rev. 22:18.
I loved your post. That is an excellent example. You're pointing out the sliver in her eye. Completely oblivious to the log in yours.I can't tell you how much I enjoyed that. Please post some more. Compare yourself to Jesus again. That part was hilarious. And the part where you compare you guys to the apostles? Priceless.
You do realize the OP did not appear to have anything to do with asking anyone to shut up?
I'm sorry.... I got on a roll and took the liberty to interpret the tone as I saw it.... I do apologize because I never want to put words in someones mouth or imply that there are emotions being displayed that are unintended...
Please forgive me.....
Interesting again. I would assume the OP would be the correct person to whom you would direct your apology. Why apologize to me? You've done me no wrong.
Or, was that sarcasm?
Not sarcasm at all... you made mention of the error, so I responded following your observation...
I only take my sarcasm so far because I respect everyone in these forums...I think people should let their emotions flow honestly and, I detest underhanded, and potentially hurtful posts...
We never have to agree, but we should always hold one another in high esteem...
Both are extreme opposites of one another. You can't have both.
One will bring you respect and admiration from your peers while the other will bring you conflict and alienation. It's your choice.
Now, that's a very confusing post. But I'll leave it at that. If I could ask you one thing. What sect do you affiliate yourself with?
I know. I know. You've got a personal relationship, but what church do you go to on Sundays?
Actually, you were kind of right.
My interpretation (and I admit there are many) of spreading the gospel means sharing Gods word with those who have open receptive hearts and want to hear it.
I don't get the "conversion" principle that many Christians base their lives upon. Especially when so many verses seem to argue against it. I also don't understand Christians that apply our belief system to those who are not Christians.
For example (and not to start an argument) why do some Christians attempt to control the behavior of homosexuals and tell them that it is against Gods word when they are not Christians. Shouldn't Christian law only apply to Christians? And even if they are Christians, if they are not seeking instruction on God's word then I assume that they have made their peace with God and don't need my interpretations to help themselves along.
*shrugs* Just my take. If anyone can let me know what those verses (and the bunches more I could post) mean if they don't mean "Stop meddling" please feel free. If they should be ignored in preference to other verses a good explanation of why would really be appreciated.
Those verses really do apply to those who are living a Christian lifestyle. The Christian lifestyle should be different from the non-Christians. These admonitions are to remind Christians of this.
When Jesus taught, He made provision for everyone to "witness" His life to "hear" the way to eternal life and to receive His sacrifice which guarantees that eternal life. He offers everyone a choice.
The world was lost because of Adam and Eve. They literally turned this place over to the devil. That is why there is so much confusion, hatred and pain. Had this not been the case, Jesus would not have had to come.
He was not angry at anyone, (except those folks selling doves in the temple).
Even when He rebuked the Pharisees, He did it from the perspective of wanting them to "see" the kingdom He represented. Like everyone else, we try and legislate according to our beliefs.
We are adamant that everyone needs Jesus. We have experienced a love that surpasses feelings and the occasional euphoria that we demonstrate.
We love Him and we want to share Him... In our zeal we are often offensive.
Abide by the law of man and abide by the law of God
Notice the word "We" at the beginning of each of your convictions.
You are right, it is offensive. Could you please tell Christians to stop being offensive? Greatly appreciated. Ta.
Um, you do realize that there is a difference between speaking publicly and popping up in someone's personal life, right? Let me break it down!!! (UH OH! UH OH! UH OH! HAMMER TIME)
When you are speaking publicly, you are in people's public business so to speak. Being in public is fair game. Yes, you might get some dirty looks and some rude shouts and even a good ol tap on the ass (from a pervert or a fine lookin lady) but like I said , it's fair game.
Now, meddling in other people's affairs is more along the lines as... let me just say it like this, Peeping Tom. If you do not know what Peeping Tom is, it is often the term that is applied to any person (usually male) who meddles in the affairs of someone undressing. This kind of meddling is a violation of boundaries. Now public speaking is not the type of meddling that the Bible forbids.
You must also put into consideration that people often followed Jesus to hear what he has to say. In other words, they invited him into his business. Peeping Tom was not invited to watch little Lisa undress.
Also, when preaching and speaking. Our actions speak louder than our words. On the same token, speaking is an action as well. We want to live the life that we talk about. One of the reasons (and that is one of many reasons) why people do not "change" is that they are shown something that is ummm... not too good about the change. This is due to the perversion of the message and the "actions" of certain people.
Now please do not think I meant this as an attack. I was just hoping to put my thoughts in. (I should have wrote a hub )
It is no wonder that I find people that like to butt into my life rather...creepy! I do agree that you should not meddle in other people's affairs. I hate it when people do that to me sometimes.
I don't know which version you are reading, but neither verse is talking about minding one's own business. You will know if you read the whole chapter.
1 Peter 4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … ersion=NIV) is about suffering for Christ's name, and it says suffering for Christ is different from murderer, thief, or meddler. 1 Thessalonians 4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … ersion=NIV) talks about living a godly life. It is focused on labouring and work, not to be interpreted as promoting individuality or not caring about society.
So I think if someone is maliciously meddling with your life, that person is wrong and against what the Bible teaches, and God bless you. However, it is not appropriate to use Bible verses arbitrarily for one's own explanation.
Once I drove by an accident scene and thought it was none of my business. I got paramedical training to correct this problem. Another time, I dealt with a group of people who wanted me to drive a child across the state to an undisclosed location and told me to mind my own business. I told them I would not take her anywhere without knowing where she was going. In this case, I could go to jail for "minding my own business." I have also dealt with people who isolate you by telling you to mind your own business and some others who use this as a bullying tactic. So where does my business really end??
What excellent post. So simple and clear. Can't understand the posters who vehemently disagree with you and believe meddling is ok if it is done in the name of what they see as good.
I'm constantly having to tell people to stop meddling in my business and they look at me baffled because they believe they are helping and think I am being ungrateful even though I did not ask them for any help. From my experience someone who believes they are helping but, in fact, are meddling is very damaging as the person being 'helped' can start to feel helpless and debilitated, stopping one from making their own decisions. I think meddling is oppression that is why it is grouped together with murder because both murder and meddling deprives the victim of their life.
I wonder how the gay marriage bashers would respond to these verses, as most of their resistance seems to be because homosexuality is sinful, evil and immoral and thus is not to be tolerated anywhere?
Maybe "real" christians don't read these verses or at least interpret them differently?
Or maybe SirDent is right and they simply won't reply to your post as they have nothing to say on the matter.
You know, I replied three times on that thread about homosexuality. I think I got one short reply on the last one. Many seem to only want to argue and fight.
I'm not a Christian but I feel we can pick and choose.
Galatians 6:1-2 says, "Brethren, even if a man is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and thus fulfill the law of Christ."
and of course Mark 16:15:
"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation"
It seems to me that the overall message is one centered around intention. That meddling is permitted in the form of genouine, altruism, but not in terms of judgement.
I think the problem is, probably, that there are so many verses in that book that give some people reason to believe they have free reign to lord themselves over others.
And, I think it's right wing, religious right doctrine. 'Jesus is the image of God. I am the image of Jesus. Therefore, I am God.' Since they also believe God is every where and reads our minds..... Well, they can't help themselves.
I want to agree . . . Certainly, that the word of God is offered as free to those who do not believe in Him. But forcing another to believe is quite the contrary. it is not just at all.
You cannot force anyone to believe. Way to miss the point so you get to keep spreading the word against what the bible says.
I agree with point one of Evolution Guy....
You cannot force anyone to believe... belief is on internal ability that no one can manipulate... even with brain-washing techniques... most of their effects are temporary....
Because the gospel is truth, when you hear it, something happens on the inside... your spirit bears witness to the truth of it and, that bothers some folk...
Too often we are concerned about the external... God works on the inside and sooner or later the effects of His working will show up on the outside...
Actually, Jesus did mind his own business, on several occasions.
He specifically avoided making judgement in legal matters, as he said that they were not within his sphere. Good lesson. If it is not within your "sphere" than you should not interfere.
Also, as christians we are reserved the right to pass judgement in the kingdom of heaven. To do so before we enter the kingdom of heaven is strongly warned against. When we tell people that what they are doing is "against God's word" we are passing judgement.
And "spread the word" was intended to be tempered with "Do unto others as you would have done to you". If that includes someone following you quoting bible verses at you every time that you do something that they don't agree with, then let me know, I would love to apply for the job.
I didn't take anything out of context.
One quote was a specific parable in a list of parables, the others were quite in context.
But, if you choose to ignore half of the bible so that you can follow ONE verse then have at it.
What I meant by saying that Jesus did not mind His own business is that He boldly declared the kingdom in the face of opposition.
The reality is that everything that concerns mankind concerns Jesus....
Oddly, crowds were following Jesus because the message he shared was something they wanted to hear. No one is following you.
That should be a clear indication to you that you are not spreading his message.
You said Jesus boldly spoke, as if your actions were emulating his. But, if you also notice; people followed him. Sought him out. Sat without thought of food or shelter for hours on end just to hear what he had to say. Ordinary people hungry for spiritual truths.
If such a person as he were here today we would all do the same thing.
The fact that the Christian message pushes people away is a clear indication that none of you have an understanding of the message he shared. You aren't representing him at all.
Not all people did that. There were many who refused what he had to say. They were the ones who were the know-i-t-alls of Jesus's day. They thought they had God and everything else all figured out and here comes Jesus showing them how wrong they were.
He is here even today preaching the same message. You just don't hear it.
People pull themselves away because following Jesus reuqires a committment. The one thing He always said we need to do it to stop sinning. People would rather live in their sins than live for Jesus.
OK. I'll bite. Other than the religious, the ones who thought they were too good for the message; who refused? Please point me to the exact scripture so that I can see what it is you are trying to say. Somewhere in the gospels Sir Dent. I'd be very interested.
Really? Is that you, or would that be one of the other evangelists on this site?
Please name them and tell me where to go to hear this message. I haven't run across it yet. The only thing I've read is people regurgitating law and passing judgment. I don't remember too much of that from the gospels.
Oh.... wait. I was wrong. I don't remember any of that.
Keep casting those stones Sir Dent. It's the only thing Christianity has learned how to do with any alacrity.
Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Luk 10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Luk 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
The Word is nigh thee, even in your mouth. Jesus speaks constantly but we harden our hearts. Have you read any of my hubs? There is also a fe w more hubbers here who are actual preachers, I am not called to preach.
You pass judgemnt on a few words in a forum. I cannot write the whole gospel in three lines or less. I am not that good a writer. If you really want to know where I stand, read my writings.
Joh_5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Joh_8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
People believe that Jesus did not pass judgment, but He did. He also showed mercy. This does not mean He said they were not sinners. All of us have sinned.
You say lawyer, but it was an expert in religious law. He was one of the religious. You'll need to do better than that. Please try again.
If I think you are all interpreting the text to suit your fancy, what good would come of reading your hubs? Would I not be better served by reading the gospels and understanding them? Why would I need a middle man to tell me what they meant and what I should think? I could just as well advise you to read my hubs. I like traffic too.
Yes, by the gospels we are all sinners. It doesn't mean we are evil, we are imperfect. There is a huge difference.
If you wanted to explain the scripture, you should have done so. Don't ask anyone else to explain something that you already have an opinion of... it is a waste of time.
I wanted your explanation vis a vis your earlier quote. I can point out that you've taken a convenient interpretation of scripture. You don't have to respond if you don't want to.
The one freedom we do have that is relevant to this thread is... the power to choose. We might choose to give our opinions on a subject or not. The recipient has the same freedom. We can choose to accept or not accept.
Cannot see any forcing or meddling going on there when we have these freedoms available to us. Forcing or meddling implies that one is able to open the door of someones mind and push/force an opinion through the minds door,locking it and throwing away the key.
That doesn't happen as far as I am aware.
One member here mentioned specifics to meddling. I see both sides (the hub writer and that responder being right). The meddling referred to in the scripture quoted tends to refer to delving into the personal life without regard to the individual being interfered with. However, we as Christains are taught to spread the word. Where it gets confused is the degree to which we are to do such. Jesus said if others do not respond toward the word than we are to shake the dust from our feet and continue on. Yes we share the word...no we do not push it. We respect everyone and show love to everyone. Christians are to walk like Christ because he dwells within them and guides them away from sin.
Also, we are not to judge others unless we are walking righteously...and I do not mean arrogantly. I mean humble, meek, gentle, kind, honest, loving etc. One cannot judge fairly unless they understand thoroughly what truth and goodness is. Basically one can only judge after they have removed the log from their eye with the help of Christ. I hope this clarifies things for you and, yes, I have read the entire bible (about 5,000 pages-the Jerusalem Bible) and am now reading another one. I highly value the word of God and would love if everyone saw the love of God the way that I have. I know others have seen His love as well (I enjoy fellowshipping with them). I do not push His word but I think it is important to share it. There is nothing further I am able to do than share His Good News and hope it finds a home in the other's heart...if not I move on in conversation. I have friends from all walks of life from atheist, pagan, Muslim, to wiccan. I keep friendships with those who have good morals regardless of riligious beliefs. I do work hard within not to fall into their practices but they are my friends. My point is that there are so many denominations that Christian can mean so many things now. I, myself, was guided by God to learn Christianity and only after I completed reading the Bible did I join a church. I'm sure there are others out there like me just as there are many Catholics, Presbyterians, Evangelists, Lutherans or Methodists etc. I was inspired to read the Bible first though and knew it was for the purpose of fresh eyes to understand. I knew that if I went to a church the beliefs of that particular denomination would seep into my own beliefs and skew any potential understanding in another way I may have received through reading it without outside human influence. Anyway, best wishes to all of you :-)
Today someone really close to me hurt me pretty bad. I've been going through some really hard times , embarrassing times, with my seventeen, son to be eighteen, year old son. And today has been the worst. Well, I confided in someone, vented about my situation and the next thing I know I have someone calling and asking me is everything OK. The person calling is a true friend and has been for years. So she called out of sheer concerns for my wellbeing. I didn't tell her. She knew word for word everything that I said. I would've never told her. It's embarrassing enough to have to go through this with my son. The person spreading the news didn't have malicious intent she was casually making conversation. It wasn't her news to spread. And when I addressed it with her her response was that i never mentioned that it was confidential and that she was surprised I hadn't told my friend already. Then she gave a nonapology. To make a long story short I'm hurt. I'm not a gossip. People get hurt in this kind of a situation. Jesus wanted to help people not hurt them. Jesus is love. When you mind other people's business sometimes people get hurt. Even when you don't intend for it to happen. And sometimes according to circumstances people may need to vent. Just because it's heard it's not to be repeated.
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