Back in my catholic school days we were taught that God judges all of us, supposedly on the Judgment Day. My question was, what makes an all powerful perfect being able to judge an imperfect and powerless being? How can such a being fairly judge those with limitations s/he could never possibly understand.
The answer was, conveniently, Jesus. The logic was, by being born human, Jesus/God could live a life with limitations and thus fairly empathize with us mere mortals having experience of being mortal. I do contest tho that living a life where you can walk on water, raise the dead, turn water to wine, multiply food and basically be recognized and respected as the son of God/divinely inspired/Closer then most to God, does not put one in a position of understanding a normal life and isn't really enough to make God a fair judge.
I also find this in contradiction to the claim that Jesus came here to save us, not to gain a fair understanding of the imperfect state. It seems to me that much of what I was taught was a case of the nuns pulling it out of their arses.
It was flimsy and highly convenient 'answers' like this that has lead me to believe that religion is a crock.
and did you not learn that questions such as these prove your lack of faith? noticing contradictions and questoning them mean something like "you haven't fully accpeted your need for God" I forget exactly. The most comon answer I go twas that I was being difficult and didn't really want to know the truth. ha
God a fair judge...Hmmm...this would mean he would have to know every single thing you have ever done. And if he does in fact know everything, why wait until a person dies to punish them for their crimes (sin). One would think he would know if they are going to change or not...and punish them right away and help get a little more "evil" out of our world, so that the "true believers" have things a little easier.
What makes God a fair judge?
The fact that He IS God the Creator.
Now in your adult life what makes you think God has ever been practical or fair? Clearly, the god represented in the bible is anything but fair. Why would a force so great as God put limitations on himself?
The older I get and the more I become aware of the stories and history, the more I realize that much of what i learned early on was just opinions. But that has just been my experience. I would like to know yours.
Imperfection can only see imperfection...
Perfection can only see perfection....
If you see yourself as imperfect, then it stand To reason that you can see God as imperfect.
And also God who is the perfect see all as perfect and sees no imperfection in any.
I guess the roads leading to realising religion is all a crock vary from person to person.
And to think, for a long time I really wanted to believe
I really wanted to believe that God was going to get those bullies for me!
Of course God's judgement was/is fair.
When he murdered thousands of innocent Egyptian children and infants because their fathers lived in a country whose leaders were evil it was fair.
When Jesus declared that the way to heaven was to believe in him it left untold generations of American Indians, Incans, Aztecs, Innuits, Chinese and Australian aborigines condemned to everlasting torment in Hell, but it was fair.
It's just that Gods idea of fair is a little different than yours; like a little child whatever He wants is fair and OK. It would be nice if he told us what he wants, but hey, if He doesn't then that's still fair.
As Brenda said above, God is fair because that is the definition of what fair is.
Should we not agree that simply means that we don't accept God as a perfect being and are not being good Christians. Or maybe that we have interpreted the history of God and His works incorrectly.
I'm not sure how to interpret sending an infant to Hell for eternity any different than, well, sending an infant to Hell for eternity, but that's what we are told, in interminable reiterations.
Maybe you're told that by someone, somewhere, about God sending infants to hell.
But not by the Bible nor by me.
Just wanted to clear that up, since your post seemed to attempt to connect the two things.
Apparently I misunderstood. I took your post above to say that anything God did was fair because He is God. "The fact that He IS God the Creator"
Not because the action was actually fair (by our standards) but because He is God.
If I mistook your intent I apologize - I often misunderstand forum posts. Too egocentric perhaps.
What you are saying then, is that because God is a hateful bigot and that it justifies why so many other religions so easily justify it also. Because there is no other way to interpret the actions of someone else who would do all the heinous things you describe. If a human would do this, he would be tried and convicted of murder. So how is that God is justified just because he is supposed to be "supreme?"
If God is love, these behaviors have nothing to do with unconditional love, and everything to do with favoritism. There is nothing fair and loving about it.
I think you completely missed his point. It was called sarcasm and irony.
Reality is what it is. Rationalizing and justifying it is a futile exercise that, while it may make a person happier with what has happened, does not change it one iota.
While mans concept of acceptable morality has changed as civilization progresses and it has necessitated a change in Gods morality as well, it doesn't change the historical record of the bible.
Given all the self contempt and hatred that I have put upon myself throughout my life, my conclusion is that if there is a God that he in fact could never be as harsh toward me as I have already been to myself. Therefore, I believe that I am my harshest judge. If God is love, then he would already know that.
I cannot speak for others. It does seem to me that most people do not see themselves very realistically, although the worst among us seem to be the most internally self conflicted and ill. In that regard, if they continue to enable themselves to be such awful people, then their lives are a waste having derived no real meaning to bring about good or to bring out the best in themselves. And if God is God—a supposed God of love—why does he not intervene and steer such souls toward him?
The reality is that he apparently doesn't.
Arguing with reality is insanity and suffering.
And thus, is this God really as we perceive him?
Does God, as we are told to believe, really exist?
There's a difference between believing in a higher power and a higher authority.
The possibility a higher power exists? Is minimal at best, but with that said, it doesn't mean that that higher power IS a higher authority with regards to humans.
False....as long as the idea of "might makes right" is accepted.
When the God described by Christianity has the increase in power that they maintain, coupled with the complete willingness to use it for whatever reason He chooses, then that concept is borne out and indeed that God has any and all authority it chooses to take.
It may not be authority in the philosophical and ethical sense of right and wrong, but it IS authority in the sense that He is the local cop on the block.
Nothing false about what I said. "Might makes right" need not apply.
Anyone arguing that what they think makes any difference to reality, goes to show their own ineptitude.
If I'm the all powerful being, what I do is fair, What I do is justice. Who are you to ask? I'll burn you eternally in hell fire(with love of course )!!
Jomine, that is hilarious.
But you'll do the burning only because they decided that's what they wanted. With only two choices and hell being the default, not a pretty picture for some.
@kirstenblog, you pose some powerful and important questions, but you work from some flimsy conclusions.
Who ever said Jesus came here to find out what being human was like? And he never said he was God. He said he and the Father were one. Big difference. A race car driver and their vehicle can be one, too. That only makes them a better driver; it doesn't make them a car.
The object of his mission was not to find out. He already knew. The object was to show us an example to inspire us -- to leverage us out of a sticky trap called ego -- that invisible, tricky, pseudo self which acts as the source of all evil. Yes, even the evil perpetrated by the "church." Even the evil of the little old lady who goes to church and wouldn't be caught dead talking to a street bum or prostitute.
Have nuns and popes pulled things out of their arses? History is full of such things. Only one pope could walk on water, and he only accomplished it for a few seconds. (And he didn't even know he was pope of anything.)
And good for you @kirstenblog. Such religion as you describe is a crock and always will be.
All human interpretation of the Bible is fallible (yes, including mine). I don't hold any of that interpretation as "absolute truth." But the Bible itself and what it truly means is likely far more interesting and complex than anyone has yet imagined.
I've only scratched the surface, but I've discovered a biblical timeline compatible with those of science, the mechanics of creation embedded in Genesis, the Kabbalah's "Tree of Life" symbolic template embedded in Genesis, an answer to why God would give such incredible protection to a liar and a murderer (Cain), and a resolution to the seemingly outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs.
And oh, one more thing -- an answer to what was the real reason behind the Flood. It wasn't ordinary, garden variety wickedness and violence, either. The Flood cured humanity of something and targeted a very specific group. There just aren't any nuns that know this stuff.
And did you know that karma and reincarnation are in the Bible, too? Lots of places!
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