It has been quite sometime I've been participating in the Forums. I noticed that most of the hot topics which triggered a lot of discussion is the "Religion and Philosophy." Though there are lots of misconceptions, misunderstandings, and misinterpretations on the concepts of religious beliefs and folklores, it has been a hot issue.
I've noticed a lot of Atheists, Agnostics, Christians and many more. All have different concepts and ideas about the beliefs they believed in. In their arguments, they are right in their own way. Opinions, Philosophies and Principles are engraved in their deepest souls. We must understand that these principles are hard to be snatched away from us. They remained in our system and part of our lives.. .
Talking about religion gets a lot of responses because its a divisive issue, there are so many opinions about it and so many different religions claim to have the absolute truth. That's why I find the idea of there being one true religion so laughable.
Again, only the gullible buy into divinity.
I apologize, the soul was used in the statement as metaphor...
Read between the lines....
You have proved your point indeed-still we come.
How could it be that someone who doesnt exist create so much interest
Due to the fact that there are too many gullible people who seem to believe in divinity.
I believe with ALL my heart and ALL my SOUL.
How do ya like them apples Cags
Like I said.
Btw- apples are great tasting. You're not serving up apples though. You're just showing off your true self.
And your not serving up anything-
I haven't shown you anything. It must be your perception, as per usual.
And, you would be correct that I'm not serving up anything. I'm not trying to sell anything to the gullible.
It is sheer ignorance to mock a belief that you have never tried,don't you think?
I find your attitude disturbing ,considering you pride yourself on being open.
I guess you mean open if you beleive it
Excuse you? Wrong again. Been there, done that.....knowledge and wisdom is priceless and defeats ignorance. Had you had the honesty to look into your beliefs, then you wouldn't have them.
And, I find your intolerance in direct violation with what you believe.
I believed when I was younger. So, you know where you can put that belief. Secondly, it's nice to see how honest you are with others, because it shows how honest you are with yourself.
Where is my dishonesty?
Sorry you dont make any sense Cags.
You really should not say such things if you can not prove it.
It's simple really Kiwi, someone can tell me my car has 12 pistons and four valves until they are blue in the face. It will still be a four cylinder, cos I can count em!
Hundreds of thousands of cross references are required to arrive at a theory that is called a theory, in other words it will have to work across ALL scientific disciplines.
What is available to prove an invisible fairy that runs everything is one old re-written book of myths with the supporting story being watered down and dissed almost daily by some new discovery with the aid of modern scientific methods.
Religion is a relic from before we understood sociopaths, psychopathic behaviour, carbon dating and science.
While I see the point you make ,it still does not answer the OP and why people are still attracted to the topic of Religion.
Why does it have an effect,even taking into consideration all the mumbo jumbo and skewed documents etc...
Why does this man Jesus Christ still even get talked about?
If it were just a fairytale,why do we not talk about Goldilocks etc, and with such emotion.
So Earnest ,even though I see why you have come to some conclusions, I can not deny the effect Christ has had in my life,therefore I will never deny His spirit or existance. In fact the peace He gives me is nothing like the world gives.
The world cant take it away ,because the world didnt give it to me.
P.S Did you see the RWC opening?, I heard it was good, wahhhh
International event ,but hard to get in the U.S (crazy..)
Because Goldilocks is MINE!
God may not be real but I AM!!!!
Don't talk about my girl...if you don't want to. :p
Hi Kiwi. Sorry I am not a huge fan of rugby. Being Victorian our game is Australian rules football, which I also ignore! I am a motor racing fan.
I believe the interest in religion is inherent.
Humans are self aware and can recognise their mortality. The brain provides a back door for fear of death overload. It is located in the amygdala.
(An almond-shaped neural structure in the anterior part of the temporal lobe of the cerebrum; intimately connected with the hypothalamus and the hippocampus and the cingulate gyrus; as part of the limbic system it plays an important role in motivation and emotional behaviour.)
"How could it be that someone who doesnt exist create so much interest "
It's simple actually, make up a name and get identification. Get a credit card and max it out and let the bill collect interest...
Oh yeah, make sure you erase that identification as well...
I agree. And there's no way to verify who may be right or wrong so, on the surface, it should simply be an interesting dialogue.
I think it becomes a hot button issue because there are philosophies that clearly attempt to not only have a monopoly on how everyone should view the afterlife, but those same philosophies expect to hold sway over our actions in this life. It makes for a fractious discussion.
These posts do spur on a LOT of posts, which is why I've been asking many questions in this topic lately. Some of it can be very educational and eye-opening, while a lot of it should be thrown to the pigs. I tend to get most of my inspiration from those who are open-minded to all beliefs and simply offer their view or knowledge in response to a question, not necessarily those who say things such as "repent! jesus is the only way!", etc. Open-mindedness in my opinion is the closest thing to "godliness"...
God isn't really all that open. He is patient, kind, generous, compassionate and powerful. He loves us all, but there is only one way to Him and that is through His Son Jesus Christ. This seemingly narrow-mindedness is a misnomer in that the God who created the universe, who created us, has provided a perfect way to have a relationship with Him. We cannot earn it, we cannot be good enough for it, we simply have to accept His Way.
I think you're right. I try to be open minded, except with the close minded. Which, I guess makes me close minded. I'm working on that.
Yeah, I agree... everyone has the freedom to express themselves...
Open mindedness is the willingness to understand that you are wrong and I am right. LOL!
However, it is good to have an open mind.
Whatever you label yourself, whether a Christian, agostic or atheist, you believe or feel strongly about your point of view or belief. Most people who stand for one thing passionately will not budge. I am a Christian and am not ashamed to say it. I have a unshakable faith that I will share with others, which will ruffle some feathers. I don't hate others for having their opinion or other faith. I just stand on mine unapolagetically.
Look we are all Gods creation but we are all not his children, his children are those that obey his word and accept the messiah as the Son of God no in-between the rest are of the world and it's materialism
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (Jn 3:16)
No he didn't give anything of the sort according to the bible. He made himself, became his own son, then killed himself to atone for the mistakes that he made, then came back again.
Little red riding hood is a much more sensible story than that one.
It is a natural reaction. Religion is part of our spiritual being and when somebody or something touch it, of course, we respond.
Because the truth matters to all of us. We may have different truths, but the defense of our truths is a natural instinct. There are the objective truths, which can be proven by evidence, and there are the subjective truths, which mean a lot to people, e.g. their relationship with Jesus, which cannot ever be proven to have any objective reality. To the rationalist, the lack of evidence for this kind of truth, would seem to make little sense, just as scientific truth is dismissed by some religious people, because only that which they consider to be the word of God can have any meaning.
For most people religion is a core belief that give people a sense of purpose. Religion lets people know why they exist in the minds of some people. Religion brings order to choas for some people, and if the religion is practiced nicely with good people Religion could realign knidred spirits that could build wonderful lasting relationships where they come together for a higher prupose and become a happy spiritual family.
If there is one true religion for all, that is a different subject matter.
I think religion is just an element of believing what is the truth.. When in fact, you can believe what you want to believe without the presence of religion.
Religion here is just the visible element of what is unseen, the faith. And Faith is very vague. It is being manifest through actions. A person shall be distinguished of what he believes in through his actions, words and deeds.
It's not a sense of purpose given. It's a dictated purpose given by a supposed higher authority.
If the religious used any sense, then they would know that there's no higher authority other than self. Self is what controls all actions taken by the individual, regardless of reason.
Why they exist? Is because they were born. To think anything else is foolish and completely irrational and without logic.
Partially true. Man-made religion is nothing more than control, due to a perceived notion that chaos would actually ensue. Not to mention, it automatically divides people on many levels and creates an underlying cause for intolerance.
There's one true religion for all. It's called "Understanding one's own life". It is meant to be done religiously through self awareness of one's own actions and the effects it has on the world itself.
I understand that there are people making themselves a higher authority than that of what is being said in the Bible.. If you do not believe the bible and view it as nonsense human-written-book inspired by nothingness, then, there is no use of fighting and reacting on this post. Because the discussion will end up nowhere and eventually will create chaos and unending arguments of God and Self.
If you happen to start wondering where this earth came from or how it is formed and probably would discuss the Bigbang theory and evolution of man as the origin of them all. Try to think of the beginning of the bigbang and evolution. The simple dust, the circling fire, the apes? where did they come from?
Tell me, as soon as you know the answer of this question....
sarasotadui, let me know as soon as you find out who made god would you?
That is a mystery earnest....God is the Beginning and the End. If you wouldn't mind making it a capital "G" because it is a proper noun.
If you cannot answer the origin of Bigbang and Self you believed in, How much more the God we believed in that is Almighty and Powerful and capable of doing impossible things around you, who makes our lives here on earth worthy despite the persecution.
Capitalizing the g isn't necessary. It's a fictional idea and isn't proven to be a person, a place or a thing. Until you can prove it exists, there's no reason to capitalize it.
I agree with you Sarasota....Christianity is true, God is true. He loves us, even the very people who persecute Him...let me share a chapter from the book of Hebrews...
Hebrews 11 (King James Version (KJV))
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
There is a lot of anger when it comes to religion. Only tonight I have been told to "f-ck off" by an atheist online. The strange thing is, that I too am an atheist, but I started a forum discussion, in which I told other atheists how I missed God, because belief in a god certainly made me happy. I wasn't expecting the anger and foul language, especially from another person who is an atheist. It seemed my question indicated that I am not atheist enough. People get very very angry about religion, and it makes little sense to me.
No. The way I see it ONE person was involved. Hardly a collective!
Actually, a few people told me that I was silly in wanting to believe in God, with several references to having an imaginary friend. It just so happens that this one person I have singled out was because he was extremely foul, which I believe is uncalled for in any discussion. If an atheist is considered to be a heretic, simply for stating that he would like to believe in God, then it would seem to me that some people, do not support the idea of freedom of speech. Although I am an atheist, I can understand why atheists are not trusted, because believers base their opinion on the minority who are very angry, when there is no need to be. I mean what does it actually matter to a perfect stranger what other people believe in? I disagree with religion and all that it stands for, yet I still believe that people have a right to believe in it if they so choose. Who am I to be angry if they choose to believe in Jesus?
And I do not know whats wrong with them...
Allow me to share the love.
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Nothing very loving about any of this is there?
What we see is a morally bankrupt invisible entity who's main thing in life is vengeance.
Do you really understand the things you've written? If he really wanted to kill these people, look who were these people God ordered to be killed?
Aren't they the witches? Aren't they the homosexuals, the adulterers, the blasphemous, the Infidels? If you were the God, will you tolerate these kind of people to continue to exist in this world? hey, they are mocking you! They are disobeying you. They are upsetting you...But instead, if you are the God, will you send your begotten son just to save and redeem these worthless people from the eternal destruction and condemnation?
They are the witches? They are the homosexuals?
Oh well, it sounds like they should be killed along with the children of non believers then. And you're OK with that right?
So much love and tolerance!
it is true that God ordered those things to happen...if you are arguing that God should not Kill because He must be loving, you are just seeing the other side of God. God is not only love, but in the bible, it is also described that He is Holy, he is Just...and He would not tolerate wrongdoings. In the old testament, it is an order to protect his people. The people whom He chose to be the lineage of His beloved Son so He can redeem us from our sins..
Oh yeah Earnest, more and more *palm to face* action now more than ever.
I think there are a few new raw amateurs here who only know enough about the bible to use it as a threat against those who show any knowledge that upsets their tiny belief system.
Because you believe you are knowledgeable enough of your belief system...
I think religion or the lack of it is the biggest cause for disagreement amongst people. When I was religius, there were plenty of people who felt the need to point out that I was in error. I was told how stupid I was to believe in such a fairy tale. Now I am an atheist, I have been told by Christians that I am going to hell when I die. I have also been criticised by atheists for not being atheistic enough. Apparently, the fact that I miss my former religion, whilst still not believing in God puts me in the worst of all positions. I think it may be best, if people dislike disagreements, as I do, to agree with whoever you are with. I realise this is dishonest, but people when they realise what it is that you do believe in will always be ready to put you down.
That is correct wentworth that whoever you are may you be an Atheist or a Christian, people should find respect in their treatment and consider you an individual who belongs to a certain kind of group no matter how strong your conviction for that matter is.
It sure does!
Here is part of a response I got on one of my hubs.
Well, who's running the train wreck that has become known as "your life"? Enjoy it now, hot shot, because it only gets worse for you from here on out. Judging from your picture, you have already seen your best years and the downward spiral will only accelerate until you meet your eternal reward.
Joking, but it was not a fellow hubber. He is an American. His ip address is in Ellensburg Washington.
LOL Ellensburg, WA is about a 4 hour drive from me. Quite a few religious fanatics when you go towards Central Washington State.
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